Looks like the HDDVD version of 300 will be worth the extra $5 afterall.

Warner Home Video is planning to push the boundaries of high-def technology with the July HD DVD release of '300,' which is set to include the world's first "blue screen" picture-in-picture commentary.

The entire article can be found here:

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Warner/Exclusive_HD_Content/Disc_Announcements/Warner_to_Debut_First_Blue_Screen_Picture-in-Picture_Commentary_with_HD_DVD_300/722

This isn't new information and it probably belongs in the HD DVD software area.

yawn. sounds about as exciting as watching Star Wars III being filmed on blue-screen. Usually this sort of thing comes off as too sterile to hold viewer interest This is one of those feature you watch once or the novelty wears off in about 5 min.

If I buy 300 it'll be BD for me. I would rather have the disc devoted to reference quality audio and video. But it will probably be the same encode from HD DVD meaning the BD is compromised again. WB could learn something from Paramount doing separate encodes to take advantage of the maximum capability of the video. On the other hand I should be thankful BD is getting a loseless track.

yawn. sounds about as exciting as watching the Star Wars being filmed on blue-screen. This is one of those feature you watch once or the novelty wears off in about 5 min.

If I buy 300 it'll be BD for me.

I find it ironic your sig says:

Blu-ray = NEXT GEN; HD DVD < NEXT GEN; Therefore Blu-ray > HD DVD

when the reason Blu-ray doesn't have this special feature is because it's currently incapable of this type of next gen content.

yawn. sounds about as exciting as watching Star Wars III being filmed on blue-screen. Usually this sort of thing comes off as too sterile to hold viewer interest This is one of those feature you watch once or the novelty wears off in about 5 min.

If I buy 300 it'll be BD for me. I would rather have the disc devoted to reference quality audio and video. But it will probably be the same encode from HD DVD meaning the BD is compromised again. WB could learn something from Paramount doing separate encodes to take advantage of the maximum capability of the video. On the other hand I should be thankful BD is getting a loseless track.

Yes, the principal effect of this idiotic feature is that the PQ and the AQ of the actual feature will likely be given even less than the inadequate amount of space Warner normally gives them.

yawn. sounds about as exciting as watching Star Wars III being filmed on blue-screen. Usually this sort of thing comes off as too sterile to hold viewer interest This is one of those feature you watch once or the novelty wears off in about 5 min.

If I buy 300 it'll be BD for me. I would rather have the disc devoted to reference quality audio and video. But it will probably be the same encode from HD DVD meaning the BD is compromised again. WB could learn something from Paramount doing separate encodes to take advantage of the maximum capability of the video. On the other hand I should be thankful BD is getting a loseless track.
At last check 30 was greater than 25. I'll check my math and get back to you.

yawn. sounds about as exciting as watching Star Wars III being filmed on blue-screen.

Ya know what, there are some people that enjoy this hobby on a level somewhat deeper than munching popcorn while looking at the latest shoot'em up only if it is a great looking transfer. Some people are actually interested in the art AND science of filmmaking. For those people, the HD DVD edition of "300" has some very interesting capabilities.

Yes, the principal effect of this idiotic feature is that the PQ and the AQ of the actual feature will likely be given even less than the inadequate amount of space Warner normally gives them.

You're probably right. I suggest you don't buy it.

As I said in another thread, I am from the LD camp of long ago. I want maximized audio and video for the feature presentation, not wasted space for some useless(to me) feature.

BD kicks HD DVD in the b@lls for the fact many of its releases feature loseless audio. Casino Royale on my new Onkyo 805 with THX Ultra2(ReEq-off) layered on the uncompressed audio was the best audio so far I have heard since my LD days and it was now in 7.1.

At last check 30 was greater than 25. I'll check my math and get back to you.
don't think warner's using bd25 for bd releases any more so it will be 30 being less than 50.

yawn. sounds about as exciting as watching Star Wars III being filmed on blue-screen. Usually this sort of thing comes off as too sterile to hold viewer interest This is one of those feature you watch once or the novelty wears off in about 5 min.

If I buy 300 it'll be BD for me. I think your bias is causing a closed mind. Personally i think it will be cool to see the effects involved and the creation process. I would also enjoy seeing it for episode 3. It may turn out I do not like it, but I think until I view it and can make judgement, it sounds like a pretty cool idea.

I also have a question for you.... you say you will buy the BD over the HD-DVD because you don't care about blue screen extras... do you even own an HD-DVD player to make a choice or was the comment made out of spite?

Mods: This probably does belong in the HD-DVD section.... can we get a move? It's just going to turn into another Blu-Ray fanboys bashing Warner Bros thread if it remains here.

Warner is adding a new and special feature on exclusively on the HD DVD version of 300. It can be found in this site:

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Warner/Exclusive_HD_Content/Disc_Announcements/Warner_to_Debut_First_Blue_Screen_Picture-in-Picture_Commentary_with_HD_DVD_300/722

"Warner to Debut First "Blue Screen" Picture-in-Picture Commentary with HD DVD '300'
Tue Jun 26, 2007 at 04:07 PM ET
Tags: Disc Announcements, Exclusive HD Content, Warner (all tags)

Warner Home Video is planning to push the boundaries of high-def technology with the July HD DVD release of '300,' which is set to include the world's first "blue screen" picture-in-picture commentary.

Warner first announced '300' in early May for a July 31 release on both Blu-ray and HD DVD, with initial specs including an In-Movie Experience video commentary track (exclusive to the HD DVD version).

Though IME tracks are common to many HD DVD releases, '300' will be unique in that it will include what Warner is dubbing the first-ever "Blue-Screen Picture-in-Picture Version." Throughout the track, director Zack Snyder will present the pre-CGI-enhanced version to the finished film, allowing viewers to compare the entire movie in both rough and completed forms.

The HD DVD will include several other additional exclusive features, including the "Vengeance and Valor" interactive game, a "Pick Your Favorite Scenes" function allowing users to assemble clips and create a unique montage, as well as other web-enabled downloadable features to be announced.

The remaining specs will be identical to both the HD DVD and Blu-ray versions of '300,' including standard audio commentary, multiple featurettes, a suite of "Webisodes" and deleted scenes.

Warner has set a $39.95 list price for the HD DVD/DVD combo version, while the pared-down Blu-ray will sell for $34.95.

Note that these separate-but-unequal versions of '300' are the latest in what appears to be new trend for Warner, following the recent dual-format release of 'Blood Diamond,' which the studio issued in a stripped-down Blu-ray version earlier this month, ahead of a more full-featured, IME-enhanced HD DVD edition due on July 3. "

don't think warner's using bd25 for bd releases any more so it will be 30 being less than 50. They must have something serious planned for that other 25gb.

don't think warner's using bd25 for bd releases any more so it will be 30 being less than 50.

If past releases are any indication it will be 30 = 50 due to the 20gb of free space on the blu-ray from WB.

WB could learn something from Paramount doing separate encodes to take advantage of the maximum capability of the video. On the other hand I should be thankful BD is getting a loseless track.

unfortunately paramount doesnt include lossless tracks even tho they do separate encodes for the 2 formats, so they too are not maximizing BD's potential. wb needs to reencode video for bd, paramount needs to implement lossless audio.

i don't care much for extras and they have never been a reason i bought any movie on dvd or bd.

Yes, the principal effect of this idiotic feature is that the PQ and the AQ of the actual feature will likely be given even less than the inadequate amount of space Warner normally gives them.

If you don't have anything constructive or useful to say, we would all prefer you not to say anything.

I think your bias is causing a closed mind. Personally i think it will be cool to see the effects involved and the creation process. I would also enjoy seeing it for episode 3. It may turn out I do not like it, but I think until I view it and can make judgement, it sounds like a pretty cool idea.

I also have a question for you.... you say you will buy the BD over the HD-DVD because you don't care about blue screen extras... do you even own an HD-DVD player to make a choice or was the comment made out of spite?

Mods: This probably does belong in the HD-DVD section.... can we get a move?


Spite... ;) If someone wants this feature so be it, but I want it on a format where I know it will not compromise the feature presentation. BD is the better format for the long term.

unfortunately paramount doesnt include lossless tracks even tho they do separate encodes for the 2 formats, so they too are not maximizing BD's potential. wb needs to reencode video for bd, paramount needs to implement lossless audio.

i don't care much for extras and they have never been a reason i bought any movie on dvd or bd.

Exactly I almost typed the same thing earlier. Maximize both formats to their highest potential that way consumers can truly gauge which one is better.

HD DVD currently has a slightly better feature set if you are into PiP. In the 9 years I have had a PiP set I never have once used it. It may not be an apples to apples comparison, but it just struck me more as a novelty than anything else. I get sick of the talking head EPKs and many of these in-movie video commentaries are just that. So instead of just hearing some dolt say, "I think we pulled it off;" now we can see the expression on said dolts face. Sign me up for the format that can do that. Wow what technical superiority....

BTW, I am not bashing WB. I very happy they saw fit to release this on BD instead of holding it back like some other high-profile titles for features I could give a rat's @ss less about. And I would like to thank them for including TrueHD on the BD also. It is a strong move in the right direction.

sounds about as exciting as watching Star Wars III being filmed on blue-screen.

Me too. Of course, I'm saying this as someone who would be excited watching Star Wars III being filmed on a blue screen. 300 just went from a rental to an instant blind-buy for me.

What a great, unique way to show how this film was made... sign me up!

Spite... ;) If someone wants this feature so be it, but I want it on a format where I know it will not compromise the feature presentation. BD is the better format for the long term.

Guess you haven't seen the Matrix movies on HD DVD or King Kong. Both have IME features running the length of the movie and the PQ and AQ are outstanding with all 3 Matrix movies also featuring lossless audio and KK being over 3 hours long. Doesn't sound like a compromise to me.

I know people will counter with "but KK only has DD+ 5.1 audio" however Universal uses this on the vast majority of their releases regardless of the movie's length. They obviously feel it's more than capable of delivering a very high quality audio presentation.

The Matrix movies show you can have stunning PQ, lossless audio and IME at the same time.

I get sick of the talking head EPKs and many of these in-movie video commentaries are just that.

Wow. Which movies did you watch with IME or U-Control? That hasn't been my experience at all.

If you don't have anything constructive or useful to say, we would all prefer you not to say anything.

Constructive and useful: Note to Warner: Please start putting a higher priority on giving us excellent PQ and AQ on the actual film and less priority on gimmicky special features.

They must have something serious planned for that other 25gb.No, thanks to the space limitations of HD DVD, Warner doesn't feel like using the extra 20GB on BD50s.

As I said in another thread, I am from the LD camp of long ago. I want maximized audio and video for the feature presentation, not wasted space for some useless(to me) feature.

BD kicks HD DVD in the b@lls for the fact many of its releases feature loseless audio. Casino Royale on my new Onkyo 805 with THX Ultra2(ReEq-off) layered on the uncompressed audio was the best audio so far I have heard since my LD days and it was now in 7.1.

Heh heh heh. These posts are funny: keep em coming. Should someone tell him it's LOSSless and not LOSEless?

nothing like a ballkick quote, either. :p

This sounds so cool. I can't wait to pre-order the sucker.

They should just take the profits from the 'combo' versions and use it to put special features (along with a reduced bit-rate main feature if need be) on a second disc, like PiratesOTC. Then everyone is happy. Except... they won't do that because a handful of people might give away their 'extras' disc which has a low quality version of the film on it. Better yet, just have two SKUs (value edition at $19.95 and deluxe with features at $24.95) and let people vote for what they want with their wallets.

are there really people who like to watch PiP in the midle of a movie?? it ruinied the whole movie.

Things like that should be watched after or before the movie, not both at the same time.

I will never use this stupid future.

Guess you haven't seen the Matrix movies on HD DVD or King Kong. Both have IME features running the length of the movie and the PQ and AQ are outstanding with all 3 Matrix movies also featuring lossless audio and KK being over 3 hours long. Doesn't sound like a compromise to me.

I know people will counter with "but KK only has DD+ 5.1 audio" however Universal uses this on the vast majority of their releases regardless of the movie's length. They obviously feel it's more than capable of delivering a very high quality audio presentation.

The Matrix movies show you can have stunning PQ, lossless audio and IME at the same time.


Optomize these titles for Blu-ray and watch them on a 100"+ screen and we woudl likely see that BD is better

I think this feature is fantastic. When it comes to commentaries on HDDVD I have so far thoroughly enjoyed the interactive commentaries of MI3 and Batman Begins. But to have the entire feature simultaneously blue screened to present the viewer with an in depth look at how the film was made is entirely unique.

I only own an HDDVD player so I have no choice between the two, but I would probably still purchase this for HDDVD due to this feature.

When it comes to space on the disc, I firmly believe that the larger you get the less it actually makes a difference.

I backup my seasons of Seinfeld on DVD but refuse to put them on DL discs as they are two expensive. So I back them up and compress them to a single layer disc. Do I notice a difference...yes, but it is so slight that I would notice unless I knew. So the 20GB space difference I believe won't necessarily improve the AQ/PQ enough that a difference could be seen from my viewing spot. Maybe if I sit 4 feet from my 92" screen...then maybe, but not from 14 feet away.

CraigW, I do want to ask though, that are going to be your thoughts when BD starts to add these "space consuming" features down the road? (serious question).

I think this feature is fantastic. When it comes to commentaries on HDDVD I have so far thoroughly enjoyed the interactive commentaries of MI3 and Batman Begins. But to have the entire feature simultaneously blue screened to present the viewer with an in depth look at how the film was made is entirely unique.

I only own an HDDVD player so I have no choice between the two, but I would probably still purchase this for HDDVD due to this feature.

When it comes to space on the disc, I firmly believe that the larger you get the less it actually makes a difference.

I backup my seasons of Seinfeld on DVD but refuse to put them on DL discs as they are two expensive. So I back them up and compress them to a single layer disc. Do I notice a difference...yes, but it is so slight that I would notice unless I knew. So the 20GB space difference I believe won't necessarily improve the AQ/PQ enough that a difference could be seen from my viewing spot. Maybe if I sit 4 feet from my 92" screen...then maybe, but not from 14 feet away.

CraigW, I do want to ask though, that are going to be your thoughts when BD starts to add these "space consuming" features down the road? (serious question).


I feel the same way. But with BD specs they could still add more of these (fluff) features before they significantly impact the feature.

I as on the fence about which format to buy it on, but this feature just sold me! Should be bad a$$

Are the neutral companies actually using the extra space on BD's to provide higher bitrate material or are they simply using the identical codec for both? If they are using the same codec and size for both then there would be no advantage BluRay. Which is kind of a slap in the face to BD supporters and purchasers.

How have prior releases been handled from WB and Paramount? Or am I opening up a can of worms here?

An interesting feature, though I can't for the life of me fathom watching a whole movie this way.

Granted, I've made my own (albeit cheap) films using similar techniques, so I guess I've seen enough people pretending in front of nothing.

Typo's are typo's guys, don't rag on the guy for typing. Hell I can hardly put 10 words together with out making a typing mistake.

I think we have a good topic here. Does BD with less features on a larger capacity disc make a huge difference in AQ/PQ quality?

Look at this way Ryan. The uncompressed masters for a typical feature stored on a digital tape (forgot the official format name) are much larger than either format can store so you have the need for compression. BD not just being larger, but also having a beter transfer rate means that less compression is required for complex areas of the film. In my book less compression is always good. That's why we have physical mediums. Again, I am a LD guy and LD was always about the having the best presentation of the feature above all else.

I have no problems with a separate disc for special features, but when I hear about these things being embedded along with feature presentation, it makes me cringe, because you know sacrifices are being made (less bandwidth for the feature).

meh... i'm gonna get me a ps3 and watch the bitrate meter instead. :D

Reminds me of the Green Screen extra on the big Sin City DVD release. I was kind of disappointed because it was at 8x speed and finished in 15 minutes, this seems more my style. If I didn't already love the movie this would jump right to the top of my Demo disc area.

I find it ironic your sig says:



when the reason Blu-ray doesn't have this special feature is because it's currently incapable of this type of next gen content.

If Blu-Ray didn't have Pause of Chapter Selection the BD-lovers would say something like "Pausing! Why do we need a stupid outdated VHS feature!"... "Chapter Selection! That is old DVD stuff!, Why does HD DVD need to use old stuff like pausing and chapter selection"

Are the neutral companies actually using the extra space on BD's to provide higher bitrate material or are they simply using the identical codec for both? If they are using the same codec and size for both then there would be no advantage BluRay. Which is kind of a slap in the face to BD supporters and purchasers.

How have prior releases been handled from WB and Paramount? Or am I opening up a can of worms here?

Paramount is doing separate video encode currently (AVC now is being used on both formats, but different encode). For some reason Paramount is doing DD+ 1.5Mbit on HD and only standard DD 640kbs on BD). So it seem Paramount is favoring BD videowise, HD DVD audiowise. Kind of ironic when BD has the space to do uncompressed PCM or any of the other lossless formats.

Warner is recyling transfers optomized for HD DVD and has only recently started to embrace the lossless audio formats for BD (a step in the right direction).

BD is the better format for the long term.

Bull ****. But who wants to argue with a bluray fanboi.

If Blu-Ray didn't have Pause of Chapter Selection the BD-lovers would say something like "Pausing! Why do we need a stupid outdated VHS feature!"... "Chapter Selection! That is old DVD stuff!, Why does HD DVD need to use old stuff like pausing and chapter selection"

Mike you are so right. I am part of Phase Hydra BTW

Bull ****. But who wants to argue with a bluray fanboi.

That's your best input in trying to spark some thoughtful insight to the conversation. skate or die boiiii

I really like this feature. This is the exact thing I would have loved for them to do with A Scanner Darkly, have the live action version play in the PiP box. I look forward to checking it out on 300 though.

I really like this feature. This is the exact thing I would have loved for them to do with A Scanner Darkly, have the live action version play in the PiP box. I look forward to checking it out on 300 though.

good idea. that would have been very cool.

Sounds awesome, can't wait!

Sounds like a nice feature.

Listen: The HD DVD is loaded with a bunch of features that nobody cares about. Nobody cares about IME, Blue Screen, interactive online mumbo jumbo stuff, even if the video quality doesn't suffer and they offer Lose Less audio.













I can't wait til' blue-ray gets these cool new features, then the tone will change to: Look what cool thing blu-ray offers and we have room for LoseLess audio to boot. :p

I wouldn't mind the option of a secondary video stream if it is free, even if I won't use it, someone might find it useful. But if packing a 2nd 1Mbps video SD stream means that you lost 5Mbps of peak video bitrate in the main feature, then it's not worth it, especially if you barely have 28Mbps peak to start with.

I think the studios mistake the users' need to collect more information about their favorite movies with interactivity on a disk. I've already found tons of great wallpaper, sound bytes, trivia information on 300 --- using Firefox and IE. The internet will always be the best place to get up to date free form information that can be viewed on PCs. Thermopylae via google for example gives large rich mixed format free-form information that can be scrolled, searched and viewed in ways that are much more suitable with a keyboard than a remote. web browsers are more useful here (eg: a PS3 with a wireless keyboard and mouse is much better than a std settop player, but is still not as good as a PC).

All other pieces of non-HD extras are a lot weaker than what is available on the internet.

"to push the boundaries of high-def technology"

This phrase just makes me giggle like a little girl in a candy store. This should be a head turner for the other BR only studios.

Im glad i did the WB preorder. Hooyah!

I wouldn't mind the option of a secondary video stream if it is free, even if I won't use it, someone might find it useful. But if packing a 2nd 1Mbps video SD stream means that you lost 5Mbps of peak video bitrate in the main feature, then it's not worth it, especially if you barely have 28Mbps peak to start with.
.

All these problems would be rendered moot with Managed Copy.

Mike you are so right. I am part of Phase Hydra BTW

So I will be expecting to see you post your disapproval of "Pause" and "Chapter Selection" sooner rather than later. I can't wait to read them :)

yawn. sounds about as exciting as watching Star Wars III being filmed on blue-screen. Usually this sort of thing comes off as too sterile to hold viewer interest This is one of those feature you watch once or the novelty wears off in about 5 min.


Yep, thanks for highjacking this thread. This thread is necessary because it is groundbreaking content. If you aren't going to buy it why did you waste our time with your biased drivel.

Blu-ray = NEXT GEN; HD DVD < NEXT GEN; Therefore Blu-ray > HD DVD
Blu-ray = NEXT GEN; HD DVD > More features than Blu; Therefore HD DVD > Blu-ray

Thanks for the new sig :D


Just trying to be funny, don't take offense ;) . Honestly, I'm not much of a special features kind of guy myself, but with some of the cool stuff that's been done on HD DVD I'm changing my ways. I'm all for Blu-Ray doing the same, different, or more when they get their act together. I think we're just seeing the tip of the iceburg with all the new features, and can't wait for more of the interactive online features to come out.

I find it ironic your sig says:
Blu-ray = NEXT GEN; HD DVD < NEXT GEN; Therefore Blu-ray > HD DVD
when the reason Blu-ray doesn't have this special feature is because it's currently incapable of this type of next gen content.
ROTFLMAF! :D

when the reason Blu-ray doesn't have this special feature is because it's currently incapable of this type of next gen content.

Some of us don't care about "next-gen" PIP extras. We just want the best possible A/V experience. If nifty do-dads that have little to nothing to do with the movie is what next gen is about, you can keep it.

Bull ****. But who wants to argue with a bluray fanboi.

says the one with the "the future = HD DVD" under his nickname :p

Ironic, no? :p

I'll tell you what would really make pip worth the beans...put an animated bitrate meter and difference error to the master readout in that little box! :p

I love how HD DVD gives you the choice to watch the extras or not.

"I gotta get me one of these."

It's funny, I started the exact same thread in the main HD Media section and it has turned into a HD/BD flame war.

I think this feature is awesome and I think it will attacked a lot of attention.

Are some of you really getting to the point that you watch the bitrate meter to see if you are getting peak perfomance. Is there any wonder that Superbit didn't take off like a rocket into space. The differences are negligable. And I know some of you will say, "maybe you can't tell the difference but I can". Bullcrap. This is called elitism. But if it makes you feel better that "you can see" the difference. By all mean tout that all space on a disc, regardless of the format should be alloted to Video and Sound...no menus, no subtitles, no nothing. All PQ/AQ. But until I see a collection of data that says for example that "recent test prove that 80% of viewers in a test of 1000 home theater enthusiasts verified that they could tell the difference between a the two". Then you might have me believe.

Yes it is all about personal preference. Some do want to have all the space alloted to the audio and video, al la Superbit. Some want the extras. But I can honestly say that you are pushing over one hell of a giant rock if you think you can tell the difference in PQ especially if you are sitting a proper distance away.

Sorry for the rant. I'll buy the HDDVD version (because that is the player I have and I would like this unique new feature). You can buy the high bitrate version. I won't begrudge you of yours, you wont begruge me of mine.

In fact, it would be nice if we actually had this option. And maybe this is where the online stuff can come in. Use the entire disc for the movie itself, but use the internet for added features.

Paramount is doing separate video encode currently (AVC now is being used on both formats, but different encode). For some reason Paramount is doing DD+ 1.5Mbit on HD and only standard DD 640kbs on BD). So it seem Paramount is favoring BD videowise, HD DVD audiowise. Kind of ironic when BD has the space to do uncompressed PCM or any of the other lossless formats.

Paramount isn't doing anything other than sending their masters to different post houses for each format. Those post houses do the work Paramount elects to pay for. One could speculate that Paramount is not willing to pay a lot of extra money for additional audio encodes so Blu-ray gets the basic mandatory audio. 640 kb/s is the max bit rate for Dolby Digital on Blu-ray. If you want anything better than that, there has to be a separate lossless encode or a multi-channel PCM track created. All that requires additional cost. HD DVD would be getting a DD+ encode regardless, so setting the bit rate on the encoder at 1.5 mb/s instead of 640 kb/s is a very simple matter of the technician's choice when he does the audio encode.

The problem with this as a long term solution is that Paramount is having to pay twice for authoring and compression. One can only wonder how long they will be willing to keep that up while their friends at Warner are having great success doing a single compression and encode and simply adjusting the authoring for each format. I predict Paramount would be the first neutral studio to stop releasing on HD DVD. If they don't go that way, I would further predict that we will start seeing encodes optimized for HD DVD being used for Blu-ray, just like Warner.

Are some of you really getting to the point that you watch the bitrate meter to see if you are getting peak perfomance. Is there any wonder that Superbit didn't take off like a rocket into space. The differences are negligable. And I know some of you will say, "maybe you can't tell the difference but I can". Bullcrap. This is called elitism. But if it makes you feel better that "you can see" the difference. By all mean tout that all space on a disc, regardless of the format should be alloted to Video and Sound...no menus, no subtitles, no nothing. All PQ/AQ. But until I see a collection of data that says for example that "recent test prove that 80% of viewers in a test of 1000 home theater enthusiasts verified that they could tell the difference between a the two". Then you might have me believe.

Yes it is all about personal preference. Some do want to have all the space alloted to the audio and video, al la Superbit. Some want the extras. But I can honestly say that you are pushing over one hell of a giant rock if you think you can tell the difference in PQ especially if you are sitting a proper distance away.

Sorry for the rant. I'll buy the HDDVD version (because that is the player I have and I would like this unique new feature). You can buy the high bitrate version. I won't begrudge you of yours, you wont begruge me of mine.

In fact, it would be nice if we actually had this option. And maybe this is where the online stuff can come in. Use the entire disc for the movie itself, but use the internet for added features.
It's not negligible, when you strip out the EVOB files down to elementary streams, Start analyzing the stream down to the macroblock level. Right now, the quantization indexes used in some of the movies regarded as 'good' are actually quite heavy, and when you look at the macroblocks with the highest quantization, you see for example that frame by frame, problem areas like edges of clouds or smoke outlines are actually unnatural.

Ill be getting this forsure should be a fun extra.

Saw this in theaters and thought it was one of the best movies this year...

F'ING FUNNY AS HELL! :D

meh... i'm gonna get me a ps3 and watch the bitrate meter instead. :D

Some of us don't care about "next-gen" PIP extras. We just want the best possible A/V experience. If nifty do-dads that have little to nothing to do with the movie is what next gen is about, you can keep it.

Actually, it's what the current gen is about. Lack of extras is 2 generations back when all we had was VHS. Laserdisc introduced us to the development of things like directors commentaries and other extra content. So now you want to go back to a time when all you got was a movie and nothing else? This is progress?

Superbit was a dismal failure on DVD, people want more for their money than just the movie. When a big movie comes out with a lack of any real special features there is usually a cry about releasing a "barebones" version to get people to double-dip later when the Special Edition comes out. How can there be double dipping if no one really wants extra features? It's because people DO want special features, that much appears clear to the industry or they wouldn't spend the money to pack discs with extras.

Next gen means new and better extras along with the better PQ and AQ, not barebones releases. You don't think there would have been cries of disappointment if the PotC movies contained nothing but the movie? I certainly wouldn't have bought them if that had been the case.

Sold! Going with HD DVD over BD on this one...as I usually do. ;)

If there is room for it, it sounds like a pretty neat feature.

Getting 300 on HD DVD instead of BD. Why? IME.





That, and I don't have a BD player. :p

Also, I think I'm over the whole combo thing. F*** it, just bring on the movies!

FYI: Bill Hunt gives his impressions of the 300 HD DVD demo on his site...

FYI: Bill Hunt gives his impressions of the 300 HD DVD demo on his site...

This will be bought like a thing that is bought very quickly upon release.

This will be bought like a thing that is bought very quickly upon release.
Let me guess, a hot cake?

The oracle sequence without digital grading/altering?

Bring it on :D :D

I'm all for new cool stuff. Can't wait to check it out!

As a BD only, never going to buy HD-DVD unless it wins person...I will say, it certainly is an advantage to have this feature. It's not something I think we should just dismiss, even though it probably won't drive HD-DVD sales higher than BD sales on this title.

Instead, us BD owners should use it as a reference point to encourage BD and WB to get that sh!t together.

Man I can't wait for this disc.

Threads merged.

this should be a really cool feature, cant wait to see!

and anyone whos buying the BD version over the HD version 'because of the IME' has another agenda, plain and simple.

It frankly boggles the mind that in the interest of supporting a format, so many enthusiasts would discount an advanced technological feature. Warner should be praised for pushing the limits of what highdef optical media can do, rather than be skewered for it.

For me personally, I get a real kick out of seeing how effects are made, comparing before-and-after versions, and I always look for that feature on a heavily CGI-enhanced movie. And I suspect plenty of Blu-ray supporters do to, but they won't admit it until Blu-ray can do this, and then a groundwell of folks will say they love it. I mean, I think it would be real cool to see King Kong or Spiderman before-and-after all the effects have been added in.

Either way, I hope Warner continues to do this and IMO everyone else should as well.

Actually, it's what the current gen is about. Lack of extras is 2 generations back when all we had was VHS. Laserdisc introduced us to the development of things like directors commentaries and other extra content. So now you want to go back to a time when all you got was a movie and nothing else? This is progress?

Superbit was a dismal failure on DVD, people want more for their money than just the movie. When a big movie comes out with a lack of any real special features there is usually a cry about releasing a "barebones" version to get people to double-dip later when the Special Edition comes out. How can there be double dipping if no one really wants extra features? It's because people DO want special features, that much appears clear to the industry or they wouldn't spend the money to pack discs with extras.

Next gen means new and better extras along with the better PQ and AQ, not barebones releases. You don't think there would have been cries of disappointment if the PotC movies contained nothing but the movie? I certainly wouldn't have bought them if that had been the case.

Perfectly stated, I think the opinion many people have regarding special features will change when they are all 1080p or 720p minimum.

Superbit was a failure because Sony overpriced the product and mismarketed it. Superbit encodes should have been standard. Why did not Sony just do a high quality encode for the movie on one disc and put the extras on another like the other studios were doing?

Is it the feature you love or the format? My whole point with this IME on HD DVD is that it is going to impact the quality of the feature by taking away bandwidth and storage space that could be allocated to the feature.

BD with its higher storage space and transfer rate is more capaple of handling this. Just curious I would like to know the size of screen you are watching these discs on? Don't kid yourself the allocated bandwidth makes a significant difference especially when you get a true home theater setup with a 100"+ screen.

As far as the previous comment on progress on how we now get so much more compared to VHS and laserdisc days, I will let you in on little secret on what some of this progress has done and don't take this as an attack on HD DVD as it affects all of the current physical digital video media: filtering, compression and edge-enhancement go hand in hand.

BD with its technical advantages will require less of all three. Again watch on a large system. I am sorry if you are watching on 50" from 8' away, it is highly unlikely a persons visual acuity would be able to tell the difference between 480, 720 and 1080. You need a front projection system to truly get the feel of what a 1080p format gives you.

Superbit was a failure because Sony overpriced the product and mismarketed it. Superbit encodes should have been standard. Why did not Sony just do a high quality encode for the movie on one disc and put the extras on another like the other studios were doing?

Is it the feature you love or the format? My whole point with this IME on HD DVD is that it is going to impact the quality of the feature by taking away bandwidth and storage space that could be allocated to the feature.

BD with its higher storage space and transfer rate is more capaple of handling this. Just curious I would like to know the size of screen you are watching these discs on? Don't kid yourself the allocated bandwidth makes a significant difference especially when you get a true home theater setup with a 100"+ screen.

As far as the previous comment on progress on how we now get so much more compared to VHS and laserdisc days, I will let you in on little secret on what some of this progress has done and don't take this as an attack on HD DVD as it affects all of the current physical digital video media: filtering, compression and edge-enhancement go hand in hand.

BD with its technical advantages will require less of all three. Again watch on a large system. I am sorry if you are watching on 50" from 8' away, it is highly unlikely a persons visual acuity would be able to tell the difference between 480, 720 and 1080. You need a front projection system to truly get the feel of what a 1080p format gives you.
Have you ever actually watched an HD-DVD?

The Matrix films are enough on their own to make a person look silly for posting something like this. Though it seems more and more clear to me that fanboys seem to have a desire to make themselves look silly.

Anyways, run along now. The nonsense you're spouting doesn't belong here.

Capek,

Did I hit a nerve? No matter what the ladies say, size does matter :p

I'll take the extras, thanks. For those that don't like extras, you aren't forced to watch them, but at least they are there if you choose to do so at a later time.

I'll take the extras, thanks. For those that don't like extras, you aren't forced to watch them, but at least they are there if you choose to do so at a later time.

You are not forced to watch them but some of them are embedded in the bitstream for the feature presentation which could affect quality.

You are not forced to watch them but some of them are embedded in the bitstream for the feature presentation which could affect quality.


I am anxious to find out if PQ is affected. I will take my chances and I am sure there will be lots of reviews of this disc which will determine if there is any problems with the PQ. No since worrying about something that has yet to be seen.

With an engineering and design background, you learn quickly there are always tradeoffs. This feature does not come for free in the bandwidth spectrum.

With an Imaging Science background you learn quickly that the human visual system has the final say in how something actually "looks" to the viewer.

Imaging Science? Is that an accredited major :p

Is it the feature you love or the format? My whole point with this IME on HD DVD is that it is going to impact the quality of the feature by taking away bandwidth and storage space that could be allocated to the feature.





Exactly.

What is going on here is a couple of BD supporters getting pissed off that they have all this space on their disk and yet offers no PQ or AQ advantage and now even falling further behind on next gen interactive features....its just sour grapes. Nothing more :)

Imaging Science? Is that an accredited major :p

Yep, http://www.cis.rit.edu/

While extras may not be to everyone's liking, I personally can't wait to try them. If the image quality suffers because of these features, I am sure we will find out quickly. I personally would rather watch the extras as opposed to watching a bit-rate meter. I don't always watch the extras on SD discs, but I have greatly enjoyed the extras on the Matrix box set. I find it quite interesting to learn the secrets behind the visuals. Then again, I always have been one to wonder "How did they do that?" :D Perhaps that is why I enjoy my job so much!

I can see myself watching this movie all the way through, then wanting to watch it again with the PiP feature turned on. I hope it lives up to my expectations!

BD with its technical advantages will require less of all three. Again watch on a large system. I am sorry if you are watching on 50" from 8' away, it is highly unlikely a persons visual acuity would be able to tell the difference between 480, 720 and 1080. You need a front projection system to truly get the feel of what a 1080p format gives you.
Do you believe Blu-ray is a waste of money for the average consumer and the majority of current Blu-ray owners since they won't ever be able to 'get the feel ' of the format ?

Another HD DVD to do something similar is the new DVD/HD DVD release of the anime Freedom by Bandai.It has the most interactive picture-in-picture yet and has downloadable extra content.At $30 for one 25 minute episode plus extras, it expensive but if you collect anime in any way or would like to see some new HD DVD interactive features it's well worth it.

I forgot to mention it's by the creator of Akira.:)

I have noticed alot of BRD owners coming in this forum and trolling lately.If the HD DVD version of 300 is going to have features the BRD isn't and it bothers them that much, then why don't they go out and invest in an HD DVD player.Coming in the HD DVD forum and trolling isn't doing anything for BRD and only makes them look like childish fanboys.

I forgot to mention it's by the creator of Akira.:)

Actually, I think Otomo just did the character and mecha designs. I really wish this wasn't one ep per disc.

TheLion and a few others against VC-1 find a few scenes in which posterization is visible and all these Playstation forum kids come here with little to no knowledge about high end video claiming that Warner's low bitrate causes all their titles to look like crap.

Lets get real here. A close look at many of Warner Bros. recent releases rate them among the top in both picture and audio quality. They also carry some of the highest ratings among reviewers in the industry. While there is a legitimate case for slight posterization during "quick action" scenes caused by bitrate, the argument against Warner Bros dumbing down Blu-Ray to HD-DVD's space limitations really does not hold water and has been greatly exaggerated.

Capek,

Did I hit a nerve? No matter what the ladies say, size does matter :p
Yes, trolling always gets on my nerves. Especially when there are so many examples that disprove your argument.

And who ties in the specifications of some product with their own sense of manhood? Granted, you were trying to make a joke, but hmm, somebody have something they're compensating for? ;)

As a BD only, never going to buy HD-DVD unless it wins person...I will say, it certainly is an advantage to have this feature. It's not something I think we should just dismiss, even though it probably won't drive HD-DVD sales higher than BD sales on this title.

Instead, us BD owners should use it as a reference point to encourage BD and WB to get that sh!t together.

I don't think this has anything to do with warner does it? Aren't they ready, willing, and able to put these features on BD when BD is ready?

And who ties in the specifications of some product with their own sense of manhood?

LCD owners (1080p-ness)? :D j/k

Performance matters more than size, anyway (and yes, I am speaking of res and codecs and such).

You are not forced to watch them but some of them are embedded in the bitstream for the feature presentation which could affect quality.

Since I own an HDDVD player I will pick up the HDDVD version. My best friend owns a PS3 and will most likely pick up the BluRay version. I will have to have him over and we will watch them both and see if we can detect any picture quality differences.

As for the screen size, I completely agree that if you have a larger screen you can see the difference very easily. And that is all the more reason why 1080p is a must because the larger the screen size the closer (in a sense) you are sitting to the screen and thus need a better resolution and more bandwidth.

So despite that I feel the differences are negligible if I am running a 106', 110", 120" screen, you will probably see the difference even more.

On my 92" screen I notice a ton of issuse with SDDVD's but not to much with a properly authored and encoded HDDVD.

So in defense of CraigW whom I disagree with, if you are watching it on a 50" LCD/Plasma and he is watching it on a 106" front projector, I guaruntee he will see the differences you don't.

^^They're going to be the exact same encodes, so you'll just be watching the same thing twice over.

Since I own an HDDVD player I will pick up the HDDVD version. My best friend owns a PS3 and will most likely pick up the BluRay version. I will have to have him over and we will watch them both and see if we can detect any picture quality differences.

As for the screen size, I completely agree that if you have a larger screen you can see the difference very easily. And that is all the more reason why 1080p is a must because the larger the screen size the closer (in a sense) you are sitting to the screen and thus need a better resolution and more bandwidth.

So despite that I feel the differences are negligible if I am running a 106', 110", 120" screen, you will probably see the difference even more.

On my 92" screen I notice a ton of issuse with SDDVD's but not to much with a properly authored and encoded HDDVD.

So in defense of CraigW whom I disagree with, if you are watching it on a 50" LCD/Plasma and he is watching it on a 106" front projector, I guaruntee he will see the differences you don't.

There won't be any PQ difference between the BD and the HD DVD.

The difference that is being discussed is the difference between what you will see on either version and what you might have seen if Warner made PQ the high priority that other studios have generally made it.

OMG stop the presses. Did someone say Extras take up room and Bandwidth. Tell me its not true. Does this apply to DVD as well I mean with its paultrey 7.4GB storage using Mpeg2 I couldn't imagine what horrible horrible destruction my making of JP extra might have done to the Movie. :rolleyes:

Sorry But while I am sure their is always trade offs, the fact is no matter what can't avoid them we don't have 400GB 100MB/s discs for our movies. The fact is their has been several examples, King Kong sits in the front as having a movie more then 50% longer with a similar feature in U-control without any tangible loss in quality (in fact its one of if not the top example of PQ in this format). So people can get off their high horse about how much the constraints of HD-DVD are horribly affecting the format. I also can't stand it when people bring up it didn't have TrueHD. Universal has put TrueHD in only a handful of their movies, probably because they have confidence in their 1.5Mb/s DD+ encodes. The only reason I believe they are starting to put it in their Q3 releases this year is because of the near baseless complaints people have had about the lack of lossless tracks on their movies. Universal has been great about listening to our demands. I loved it when one week they announce 90% combos and after a couple of complaints they did an about face and said only for new releases, and even went out of their way to re-issue catalog movies with HD only.

While the posts about BD being better suited for these features are technically accurate, its kind of pointless. Its like saying the Enzo is better suited for High speed travel then the 599 Fiorano. Until Warner Bros makes a 4.5 hour movie and has to remove the IME feature from the HD-DVD its all academic. Which brings me to the final point, why are BD people coming in a talking about how IME is horribly affecting video quality? Its not like the BD version without it is going to be any better then the HD-DVD version. Both versions use the same encode.

^^They're going to be the exact same encodes, so you'll just be watching the same thing twice over.

This is exactly my point. So basically there is simply 100% benefit to the HDDVD version and 0% to the Bluray version because of this. Obviously there would be a benefit if the Bluray version had a difference bitrate used to encode and actually took up the 50gigs w/o the IME type track. But if it isn't what is happening with the additional 20 to 25 gigs???

This is exactly my point. So basically there is simply 100% benefit to the HDDVD version and 0% to the Bluray version because of this. Obviously there would be a benefit if the Bluray version had a difference bitrate used to encode and actually took up the 50gigs w/o the IME type track. But if it isn't what is happening with the additional 20 to 25 gigs???
Absolutely nothing. But that said their has been many a disc that hasn't used a full thirty either. Most people discount that even in the best of worlds extras can also have variable bit rates, so its actually more likely that they will be short changed and not necessarily the Movie.

Absolutely nothing. But that said their has been many a disc that hasn't used a full thirty either. Most people discount that even in the best of worlds extras can also have variable bit rates, so its actually more likely that they will be short changed and not necessarily the Movie.


Plus, since the disc will be a combo, all the common no HD extras will probably be on the dvd side which will leave a little extra space on the HD side. Am I wrong? Wouldn't that make sense?

are there really people who like to watch PiP in the midle of a movie?? it ruinied the whole movie.

Things like that should be watched after or before the movie, not both at the same time.

I will never use this stupid future.

Some ppl like to watch the flick with the commentary the second time around.

This is exactly my point. So basically there is simply 100% benefit to the HDDVD version and 0% to the Bluray version because of this.

Obviously Warners hates Blu-ray. :rolleyes:

Or maybe they just want to kick Sony in the ass a bit. ;)

Optomize these titles for Blu-ray and watch them on a 100"+ screen and we woudl likely see that BD is better

Maybe I don't understand your reasoning. Both players have the same maximum resolution of 1080p. So what difference does a 100" screen have to do with anything? Ok, good for you, you win the nice home theater award, but 1080p will look exactly the same on a 42", 56", or any other size screen.

What is going on here is a couple of BD supporters getting pissed off that they have all this space on their disk and yet offers no PQ or AQ advantage and now even falling further behind on next gen interactive features....its just sour grapes. Nothing more :)

If there were any truth to advertising Sony's ad campaign for the summer of 2007 would be - "Blu Ray, less features at higher prices...(then in small print) current players will not be compatible with future titles, purchase of newer Blu Ray players will be required".

I have noticed alot of BRD owners coming in this forum and trolling lately.If the HD DVD version of 300 is going to have features the BRD isn't and it bothers them that much, then why don't they go out and invest in an HD DVD player.Coming in the HD DVD forum and trolling isn't doing anything for BRD and only makes them look like childish fanboys.

People get desperate when they spend too much money on a console that is losing exclusives left and right and supports a movie format that is still incomplete. You gotta justify your 600 dollar check somehow. I guess reading the bit rate meter may be cooler than I thought. Its gotta be for that kind of money. :D

People get desperate when they spend too much money on a console that is losing exclusives left and right and supports a movie format that is still incomplete. You gotta justify your 600 dollar check somehow. I guess reading the bit rate meter may be cooler than I thought. Its gotta be for that kind of money. :D

You have no idea. :)

That being said IME is why I'm picking up 300 on HD-DVD(if warner will let me pre-order it :mad: :mad: :mad: )

I guess reading the bit rate meter may be cooler than I thought. Its gotta be for that kind of money. :D

You know, the Blu Ray fans can wave their Bit Rate and Bandwidth flags all they want. The bottom line is, HD DVD has features that Blu Ray currently doesn't and potentially won't ever have. Man, that's got to sting a little. Now they know why Warner doesn't bother releasing all of their titles on BD. After they create it for HD DVD, they just don't see the point. The Blu Ray player just can't deliver.

Lets drop the Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD for a moment.
Warner has the top rated titles on any format.

1. Popularity...look at the sales numbers.
2. Picture Quality...look at the reviews. The only studio using 4k restoration of older masters.
3. Sound Quality...have released the most content with lossless sound.
4. Features...their additional content is excellent

I don't get why anyone from either format is bitching about Warner Bros. They have released top hits, their best catalog, they are starting to release the films absent on Blu-Ray and giving them extras like directors cuts and PCM+TrueHD tracks. Yet all I see is complaints about Warner.

Lets drop the Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD for a moment.
Warner has the top rated titles on any format.

1. Popularity...look at the sales numbers.
2. Picture Quality...look at the reviews. The only studio using 4k restoration of older masters.
3. Sound Quality...have released the most content with lossless sound.
4. Features...their additional content is excellent

I don't get why anyone from either format is bitching about Warner Bros. They have released top hits, their best catalog, they are starting to release the films absent on Blu-Ray and giving them extras like directors cuts and PCM+TrueHD tracks. Yet all I see is complaints about Warner.

not from me. warner is the best.

Lets drop the Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD for a moment.
Warner has the top rated titles on any format.

1. Popularity...look at the sales numbers.
2. Picture Quality...look at the reviews. The only studio using 4k restoration of older masters.
3. Sound Quality...have released the most content with lossless sound.
4. Features...their additional content is excellent

I don't get why anyone from either format is bitching about Warner Bros. They have released top hits, their best catalog, they are starting to release the films absent on Blu-Ray and giving them extras like directors cuts and PCM+TrueHD tracks. Yet all I see is complaints about Warner.

All very excellent points. (But that SD Animatrix disc still burns me up. I know, shutting up about it). I'm hoping they use those 4K restorations for more than just HDM and we see something like digital revival houses spring up.

not from me. warner is the best.

Their transfers are top notch(BD and BB not included)

And When I was watching the AFI list most of the top 10 were from their studio.
Ayone done AFI by studio and format?

Their transfers are top notch(BD and BB not included)



And The Departed not included, and Poseidon not included, and Lady in the Water not included, and Superman Returns not included. . . .

300 was an amazing movie and u control and pip commentary are also amazing features .perfect fit.