Read in a best buy circular in the Sunday paper, that teh LED based TVs have 40% better color than lamp based RPTVs...is this true? LED might be the way to go if so?

By most accounts, the lamp-based DLPs have better PQ than the LED models (as long as you don't see rainbows). But that was for last year's sets. Don't know if it's still true with the HLTs. In the end, it's what looks best to your eyes.

Read in a best buy circular in the Sunday paper, that teh LED based TVs have 40% better color than lamp based RPTVs...is this true? LED might be the way to go if so?

I was curious about this when they came out, but I certainly don't have that impression looking at them in stores, either the 89 series or the newer HLT. They're OK but I am not going to throw away my lamp-based set yet. In addition, I've found that the image on LED sets degrades badly at horizontal off-center viewing angles, which is a deal breaker for me.

Although my first lamp failed at 2300 hours, its replacement looks like it will be good for at least 6000 so I'll go with lamps for now and see what develops.

I was curious about this when they came out, but I certainly don't have that impression looking at them in stores, either the 89 series or the newer HLT. They're OK but I am not going to throw away my lamp-based set yet. In addition, I've found that the image on LED sets degrades badly at horizontal off-center viewing angles, which is a deal breaker for me.

Although my first lamp failed at 2300 hours, its replacement looks like it will be good for at least 6000 so I'll go with lamps for now and see what develops.
I certainly would not "upgrade" from a lamp-based to an LED model, unless you see rainbows. The question, though, is which to buy if you are shopping for a new display. I'd be curious to hear what the professional calibrators think on this issue.

Greetings,

The LED displays are supposedly capable of reproducing a larger portion of the light spectrum than the lamp based displays. That said, manufacturers are trying to exploit the fact that they can reproduce more colors. LED technology in general has a lot of potential that the lamp based displays did not; however, as with any technology, it will take some time to truly utilize its' full potential.

In evaluating the new Samsung DLP LED displays, we have found that after proper calibration they will produce an excellent image. Does this mean you should run out and trade in your lamp based model? That is really up to you, but while there are improvements in the newer displays, it is not a night and day improvement from last year's models.

Best,

Dave

Greetings,

The LED displays are supposedly capable of reproducing a larger portion of the light spectrum than the lamp based displays. That said, manufacturers are trying to exploit the fact that they can reproduce more colors. LED technology in general has a lot of potential that the lamp based displays did not; however, as with any technology, it will take some time to truly utilize its' full potential.

In evaluating the new Samsung DLP LED displays, we have found that after proper calibration they will produce an excellent image. Does this mean you should run out and trade in your lamp based model? That is really up to you, but while there are improvements in the newer displays, it is not a night and day improvement from last year's models.

Best,

Dave

Thanks! So - after calibration, the PQ is better than current Sammy lamp-based TVs? I gather there is no possibility of Screen Door effect on LEDs? I have no TV at all right now, so am not upgrading to an LED, thinking of purchasing one though.

Biggest LED appears to be 61" - are there more sizes coming, or are LEDs inherently limited to smaller TVs due to low light output? Thanks again!

Greetings,

The LED displays are supposedly capable of reproducing a larger portion of the light spectrum than the lamp based displays. That said, manufacturers are trying to exploit the fact that they can reproduce more colors. LED technology in general has a lot of potential that the lamp based displays did not; however, as with any technology, it will take some time to truly utilize its' full potential.

In evaluating the new Samsung DLP LED displays, we have found that after proper calibration they will produce an excellent image. Does this mean you should run out and trade in your lamp based model? That is really up to you, but while there are improvements in the newer displays, it is not a night and day improvement from last year's models.

Best,

Dave

What would you think about going from my current set - the Sony 60XS955 - to one of the new Samsung LED sets? I'm thinking of upgrading to 1080p, but I'm paranoid about the "rainbow effect". Ideally, I would like a 65" set, but Sony doesn't make one, and neither does Samsung. Mits and Toshiba do, but they are lamp based DLP...

raftermanfmj,

After calibration the current LED models excel in areas that the lamp based models were unable to; however, they are not quite as bright as the lamp based models are. That said, often many of our clients find these displays to be too bright to begin with so it is not usually an issue. Yes, the screen door effect is still an issue on these displays though it may not be as noticeable, it can still be an issue. I would highly recommend the new Samsung DLP displays if you are looking to purchase a new display.

Good Pictures! :)

Dave

PackFan,

The Sony display that you own is very good, but as you mentioned, technology has changed and improved. I would highly recommend moving towards a Samsung DLP display if you find it will suit your requirements; however, the "rainbow effect" can be an issue. Before purchasing I would recommend going to your local retailer and stand about the same distance from the screen as you will be at home and view various material. If you happen constantly see the "rainbow effect" I would recommend looking into different display technologies.

Best,

Dave

I thought the rainbow effect was eliminated by the LED sets... Can you explain?

Thanks.

P.S. I am a former customer of Eliab - he came by during a tour when I used to live in Michigan to calibrate my old Toshiba CRT rear-projection TV.

I thought the rainbow effect was eliminated by the LED sets... Can you explain?
Some people very prone to seeing rainbows with lamp-based DLPs claim to still see rainbows with the LEDs, although the risk is greatly reduced. I have never seen one with either type of DLP.

raftermanfmj,

After calibration the current LED models excel in areas that the lamp based models were unable to; however, they are not quite as bright as the lamp based models are. That said, often many of our clients find these displays to be too bright to begin with so it is not usually an issue. Yes, the screen door effect is still an issue on these displays though it may not be as noticeable, it can still be an issue. I would highly recommend the new Samsung DLP displays if you are looking to purchase a new display.

Good Pictures! :)

Dave

Unclear what you mean; reccomending the Samsung LED or the Lamp-based..? Am also considering the Samsung HL-T7288W; Sony as well, but damn are they pricey. Dave, let's say someone handed you 3500 bucks and said buy the best TV you can, 61" or above...what would your thoughts be?

I've had no luck finding reviews on the Samsung LEDs...subscribed to Home Theatre, Sound and Vision and another HT mag 4 weeks ago - just waiting for them to arrive in the mail...

Greetings,

The LEDs are still sequenced on/off, one at a time, as there is only one DMD to create the picture. Essentially, the DMD is time shared between the three LEDs to create the picture. The sequencing is what may appear as the "rainbow effect".

raftermanfmj,

Choosing a display can be difficult because it is not just about what may produce the most accurate image. One has to take into account the various display technologies and the pros and cons in order to make the right decision. For example, if I told you that a DLP would produce the most accurate image, but you looked at it and were bothered by the "rainbow effect" it may not be the best display for you.

Though if I were to go out and purchase an RPTV display 61" or larger I would go with a Samsung DLP at the moment. After calibration it produces an extremely accurate image and provides good value for the price.

I hope this helps.

Best,

Dave

Though if I were to go out and purchase an RPTV display 61" or larger I would go with a Samsung DLP at the moment. After calibration it produces an extremely accurate image and provides good value for the price.

I hope this helps.

Best,

Dave


ahhhh, but what about last years dlp, versus this years in lamp and led? what would you do?

ahhhh, but what about last years dlp, versus this years in lamp and led? what would you do?
Great question. Initially, we liked the HL-R sets more than the HL-S models. But as time went on and our procedure for the HL-S models improved, we were able to attain a better image with the HL-S thus preferring that model. The same is now true with the HL-S verses the HL-T. Both Dave and I have literally worked on hundreds of HL-S displays but only a few HL-Ts. And these sets - like all other Samsung DLPs - are quite idiosyncratic and have a steep learning curve. Consequently, we're much more comfortable and can more easily arrive at a correct image with the prior more than the latter. But if I were to commit to one I would probably have to say the HL-T because it offers more flexibility. We also feel confident that with time our procedure for it will improve.

Eliab

holy dlp! :eek: it's the dynamic duo calibrators. (being respectful of course. :D ) right now i have a hl-s6767w and see that a hl-t6756w will soon be available. i am considering returning the 6767 and waiting until august. by then, you and dave will have had more time with the t-series. or is a hl-t6189s a better value? :confused: want the best picture and most features for the money, of course.

and yes, this could be neverending, but i have the chance right now to return the hl-s6767w. i see no rainbows, 7 ft viewing, etc. i know there are variables but i think you get the gist of my question.

holy dlp! :eek: it's the dynamic duo calibrators. (being respectful of course. :D )
No offense taken. I may also have to borrow holy dlp from you. :D

right now i have a hl-s6767w and see that a hl-t6756w will soon be available. i am considering returning the 6767 and waiting until august. by then, you and dave will have had more time with the t-series. or is a hl-t6189s a better value? :confused: want the best picture and most features for the money, of course.
You pose a good question. Presently, I've only worked on the xx89 and happen to own one also. Dave has worked on both the xx87 and xx89 so perhaps he could add some more insight. But the 6767 is a truly great performer and could serve one well for at least the next three years. The money saved switching to an HL-T might be better served going towards a Blu-ray player or another component. But in all fairness, we may (or may not) make strides on the HL-Ts that make them a clear winner. Again, only time will tell but we do hope to have these answers ASAP!

Eliab

David or Eliab you still have not given your opinion on either the LED or Lamp based model. If I am not mistaken the HLT has both in its line up and often the LED is slightly more expensive.

What is the difference between the 87 and 89 series?

David or Eliab you still have not given your opinion on either the LED or Lamp based model. If I am not mistaken the HLT has both in its line up and often the LED is slightly more expensive.
Well...I sort of did a few posts ago. :rolleyes: I've not yet worked on an xx87 so I can't personally confirm how it performs as compared to the xx89. Dave has, however, so I'm sure he'll chime in at some point (I believe he's presently on a job). The xx89 performs very well once calibrated - in certain respects better than the HL-S sets. But we still have more testing to do before we can make any solid statements. But rest assured, we plan on keeping the AVS crowd abreast of our developments. ;)

Eliab

Thanks for the clarification :) Appreciate both your and Dave's input as I am sure most other readers do also.

The xx89 performs very well once calibrated - in certain respects better than the HL-S sets.

Eliab

" in certain respects " :confused:
actually, can u clarify more...layman's specifics, if you will?

thanks in advance
:D

We also feel confident that with time our procedure for it (HL-T displays) will improve.
But in all fairness, we may (or may not) make strides on the HL-Ts that make them a clear winner (over the 6767).

These statements seem somewhat contradictory so let me clarify. The HL-T displays offer more flexibility than has ever been made available in any other Samsung DLP display. And while we have made major advancements in our ability to calibrate them, they're still in the developing stage for us whereas the HL-S displays have been "cracked" so to speak. As such, the HL-S displays are still a strong contender given their recent price drops whereas the HL-Ts are *promising* at this point. But even if we conclude in the not too distant future that they're "clearly" better than the HL-S displays, the differences may not be worth the price of admission for some.

I hope this clarifies things a bit. :o

Eliab

" in certain respects " :confused:
actually, can u clarify more...layman's specifics, if you will?

thanks in advance
:D
Here are some.

*3, 1.3 HDMI inputs
*1080/24fps compatibility
*Better blacks
*Firmware updatable
*Many more picture parameters within the user menu, etc.

Eliab

...
*1080/24fps compatibility
...Does this mean 'correctly display 1080p24' or merely 'accept a 1080p24 source'? Perhaps nobody knows yet. (?)

Thank you for your time.

I recently spoke to the owner of a TV repair facility that is authorized by Samsung to work on their units and he tells me that he has received a number of calls from customers who complain about lack of brightness for their LED displays (HLT line). He said there doesn't seem to be anything wrong but rather bulb DLP's are inherently brighter than LED DLP's.

I realize that some customers see brightness as a very big plus even if it is drowning out detail so I am in a quandary. I am in the market for a new display (50 inches as I already have a front projector with a 110" screen for movies) and would like to make a purchase in the near future.

John

thanks...

and g'night dynamic duo

What is the difference between the 87 and 89 series?

From the Samsung literature, it appears they both share the same basic engine, but the 89 series adds:

1. Picture in Picture
2. Blue Tooth Headphone capacity.
3. HDMI 1.3 - note, the literature on the 87 just said HDMI...but tellingly, the 89 specifically mentioned the 1.3 variant.

So, is this worth the xtra cash? Blue tooth is cool, PIP I could not care less about, but the 1.3 is something I'd like to have...

also, do these sets accept 24 FPS w/o any fancy interpolating? Can they display at the actual proper movie like frame rate? Very important!

Does this mean 'correctly display 1080p24' or merely 'accept a 1080p24 source'? Perhaps nobody knows yet. (?)
This thread is full of great questions. :)

We have confirmed that it accepts 1080p24 but have not yet confirmed if it also accepts multiples of 24 (48, 72, etc.). We believe that it does so correctly but have not done extensive testing in this regard either. Once again, we hope to have these questions answered shortly.

Eliab

I recently spoke to the owner of a TV repair facility that is authorized by Samsung to work on their units and he tells me that he has received a number of calls from customers who complain about lack of brightness for their LED displays (HLT line). He said there doesn't seem to be anything wrong but rather bulb DLP's are inherently brighter than LED DLP's.
This is true. However, let's not forget that the lamp based Samsung DLPs are excessively bright - so much that they often cause eye strain for many people. As a result, the overall display brightness usually needs to be cut down by as much as 65% in order to render a pleasing and comfortable image. So while the LED models aren't as bright, they're certainly bright enough for the vast majority of people.

Eliab

Eliab

Any further views on if the LED's can obtain a better picture than the lamp based models?

I had my HL-S6767 go bad two weeks after I purchased it. They replaced the bulb, light engine, main board, and power supply. They did this about 3 weeks ago. The picture looks pretty good.

I was contemplating purchasing the HLT67 from Costco and return my set. I was not completely comfortable with having the innards ripped out of my set. I do have the lifetime warranty on the 6767 because I bought it in Feb but did not start using it until June. I know the new sets have 2 years.

Any comments or suggestions? Thanks.

I work in a Sears electronics dept. We have the new 87 series 61" LED set parked right next to one of the new slim 56" lamp based models. I can verify that the lamp based set is brighter and thus more attractive to the uninitiated customer (surprising how many people equate pq with blindingly bright pictures). The LED sets also have a more restricted viewing angle. SSE is less on the LED, probably due to the lower brightness.

I've tried watching the HD DVD of King Kong on both sets, using HDMI from a Toshiba HDA2.
The detail on Kong's fur in closeups looks somewhat muddy on the LED set compared to the lamp based model. I've since noticed that on our store feed loop the lamp based set has a slighly crisper, cleaner looking image. Of course neither set is ISF calibrated.