I don't know where to post so i'm posting here.
I'm looking for a good sacd/dvd player to replace my standalone dvd audio player and i don't want to use my ps3 for sacd playback anymore as I'm tired of turning on the tv to see what the heck i'm doing and I'd prefer not to do DSD->PCM conversion.
I don't care about the dvd movie playing abilities i just want good quality sacd/dvda playback.
I have a marantz sr7001 receiver which has Ver. 1.2 and supports 1-bit audio formatting and enables transmission of DSD signals of Super Audio CD.
Honestly, I don't want to go over $250.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Thank you

EDit :
What is everyones opinion or experience for sacd/dvda playback for this player
http://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-DVD-Audio%252fSACD-Player-DV%252dSP502B/dp/B000653KME******pd_bbs_7/102-4118613-1653707?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1182965496&sr=8-7

The Oppo 970 would be a good choice. Does video, but it's optimized for audio. Doesn't send DSD over HDMI...not sure what does. I'd be very surpized if it's conversion to 24/88 PCM was audible.

The Oppo 970 would be a good choice. Does video, but it's optimized for audio. Doesn't send DSD over HDMI...not sure what does. I'd be very surpized if it's conversion to 24/88 PCM was audible.

Sounds like a good player.
Perhaps i should ask, is there any player that will send DSD over HDMI ?
Or is it only possible via analog ?
I really want a player that passes DSD straight to the receiver via HDMI.

Perhaps i should ask, is there any player that will send DSD over HDMI ?

Not that I'm aware of, even at higher budgets.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=861962

Or is it only possible via analog ?

Can't pass it over analog. Some players convert to PCM before their analog stages also.
Not something I'd worry about too much.
If you were really concerned and had a very high-resolution system, you might try something like a Denon 2900 that preserves DSD all the way to the analog-outs. Still, even that sounds very close to a 970 outputting PCM from SACD.

Not that I'm aware of, even at higher budgets.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=861962



Can't pass it over analog. Some players convert to PCM before their analog stages also.
Not something I'd worry about too much.
If you were really concerned and had a very high-resolution system, you might try something like a Denon 2900 that preserves DSD all the way to the analog-outs. Still, even that sounds very close to a 970 outputting PCM from SACD.


Thank you for the info. I posted there as well. Well my marantz sr7001 will never see a pure DSD signal i guess, even though it is capable of receiving it and processing it :(

Thank you for the info. I posted there as well. Well my marantz sr7001 will never see a pure DSD signal i guess, even though it is capable of receiving it and processing it :(

That's what I don't get. HDMI 1.2 was introduced specifically to pass DSD, yet no player does. Why did they bother?
Like I said, though, I wouldn't lose sleep over any theoretical effect on SQ from a conversion to PCM,at least not like the Oppo does it. My really old Sony SACD changer (775?), on the other hand, converted to PCM badly if using any bass-management so I had to run "MC direct" for it to sound good. The Oppo does it at very high resolution.

My Marantz sends an unaltered DSD signal to its analogue output (DV6400), so I imagine newer Marantz players can do so as well. It is even supposed to remain as pure DSD with the internal BM turned on (I don't use it that way, I have an external bass management system in my receiver) but I don't know all the technical specifics on that. I do know that I've yet to find a player that stays in pure DSD for bass management AND time alignment (a number will do the first, and a few allegedly do the latter, but I'm not certain of that). It is even alleged that a DSD with a "pure" path will, for bass management, convert to PCM, apply bass management and reconvert to DSD. If you hunt around the web, you'll find an engineering paper that makes that claim.

In the end, though, "pure DSD" can only be really appreciated if you have five full range speakers and they're all equidistant from the listening seat. Even though my receiver not only does a DSD to PCM conversion, it does an A/D/A to the incoming analogue signal, I find SACDs offer excellent SQ that benefits more, in my room, from the bass management/time alignment (the absence of which is audible to me) than from a "pure DSD" path (the quality difference of which is inaudible to me with my gear--and I've tried all sorts of configurations to compare).

Thank you for the info. I posted there as well. Well my marantz sr7001 will never see a pure DSD signal i guess, even though it is capable of receiving it and processing it :(

The very recently released Pioneer DV-600AV outputs DSD over HDMI, but if the video output resolution is the same or less than 576p the audio output may be limited to 2 channel. Seems this is due to the HDMI standard (hilarious, really, read it elsewhere).

In any case, check out page 48 in the English manual: http://www.service.pioneer-eur.com/peeservice/RegistrInstrMan.nsf/search?openform&Modelnr=DV-600AV

The very recently released Pioneer DV-600AV outputs DSD over HDMI, but if the video output resolution is the same or less than 576p the audio output may be limited to 2 channel. Seems this is due to the HDMI standard (hilarious, really, read it elsewhere).

In any case, check out page 48 in the English manual: http://www.service.pioneer-eur.com/peeservice/RegistrInstrMan.nsf/search?openform&Modelnr=DV-600AV

Sounds good. I don't really care about video as i won't be used for that. But, I owe you !
Where can I buy this player. It looks to be foreign.
Is the DV-696AV the same as this one as I found it on amazon?

My Marantz sends an unaltered DSD signal to its analogue output (DV6400), so I imagine newer Marantz players can do so as well. It is even supposed to remain as pure DSD with the internal BM turned on (I don't use it that way, I have an external bass management system in my receiver) but I don't know all the technical specifics on that. I do know that I've yet to find a player that stays in pure DSD for bass management AND time alignment (a number will do the first, and a few allegedly do the latter, but I'm not certain of that). It is even alleged that a DSD with a "pure" path will, for bass management, convert to PCM, apply bass management and reconvert to DSD. If you hunt around the web, you'll find an engineering paper that makes that claim.

In the end, though, "pure DSD" can only be really appreciated if you have five full range speakers and they're all equidistant from the listening seat. Even though my receiver not only does a DSD to PCM conversion, it does an A/D/A to the incoming analogue signal, I find SACDs offer excellent SQ that benefits more, in my room, from the bass management/time alignment (the absence of which is audible to me) than from a "pure DSD" path (the quality difference of which is inaudible to me with my gear--and I've tried all sorts of configurations to compare).

I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of receivers converted to PCM also before processing (BM, room correction, etc.).

SO does anyone have the DV-600AV to confirm DSD output via HDMI ?

I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of receivers converted to PCM also before processing (BM, room correction, etc.).
It is my understanding that "pure DSD" cannot avoid a PCM conversion for anything but bass management (and even that is not rock-solid, as evidenced by the engineering paper I read a few years ago on the topic). DSD was designed as a storage medium, initially, for archival purposes, IIRC. The only way to be absolutely sure that a "pure DSD" path remains "pure" is to send the signal to full-range speakers (either in 2 or MCH configuration) and if in MCH, it the speakers MUST be equidistant from the listener for the best results. But even with the conversion to PCM, the quality remains high enough to be worth it, IMO, and don't worry too much about a "pure DSD" path.

Is the DV-600AV equivalent coming to the U.S.? Anyone know if Pioneer or any other new upcoming player has DSD output via HDMI?

I have been using the Oppo 970 for a long time now and I am still happy with it. To me it makes the best of my 400 or so SACD's and DVD-A's. It also decodes HDCD and has a slew of other features like USB memory stick inputs which also work quite well. The one glitch with it is if you have a 5.0 DVD-A you cannot get a sub woofer signal if you are using the 6 analog outs (bass management with SACD and everything else works fine). Even with the speakers set to small a DVD-A authoured as 5.0 will not have an active sub. Other than that it is a great player. IMO much better than the Pioneer 45a that I replaced.

Well,

While supplies last, at musicdirect.com, the Marantz DV - 7600 is down from $1100.00 to $599.95. Yes, it is over $250.00, but to get this caliber of player at this price, doesn`t happen often. And, you already have a Marantz receiver.

Just some comments:

The Denon 3910 and up supports DSD to PCM conversion over HDMI *and* does pure DSD over their proprietary DenonLink. It can be bought at about $500 for a refurb with Denon warranty at eCost.com.

One thing you might want to consider is that the DSD decoder in you receiver is not necessarly as good as the one in the player. An example (actually for PCM, but you get the idea): the Denon 3910 features BB 1796 DACs while even the 4000 series receivers only have BB 1791s. So why would you bypass the superior DACs in the player, when the player does support some decent bass and delay management...

The Denon 3910 and up supports DSD to PCM conversion over HDMI

The 3910 only sends DD and DTS via HDMI. It only has HDMI 1.0


http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/transports/dvd-players/denon-dvd-3910-dvd-player-review/dvd-3910-remote-control-video-tests

DSD is 2.82MHz at 1-bit. Anybody know if any internal-decoding receivers that receive DSD can decode DSD bitstreams at that bitrate?

Anybody know what the DSD-to-PCM bitrates for those receivers are?

It seems to me that the closer DSD-to-PCM conversion is to the native bitrates of DSD, the better the sound would be. Otherwise, if the DSD-to-PCM within a receiver gets something like 192kHz at 24-bit or lower, the touted DSD decoding capability is rather pointless.


fuad

DSD is 2.82MHz at 1-bit. Anybody know if any internal-decoding receivers that receive DSD can decode DSD bitstreams at that bitrate?

Anybody know what the DSD-to-PCM bitrates for those receivers are?

It seems to me that the closer DSD-to-PCM conversion is to the native bitrates of DSD, the better the sound would be. Otherwise, if the DSD-to-PCM within a receiver gets something like 192kHz at 24-bit or lower, the touted DSD decoding capability is rather pointless.


fuad


There is only one way to decode DSD 1bit 2.82mhz.
Usually the conversions to PCM are 24/192 or less.
I doubt that you could tell the difference, not to mention that the majority of SACD's aren't pure DSD recordings. Even if it was captured as DSD in many cases it was converted for PCM for mixing and editing. I wouldn't obsess over DSD period.

The very recently released Pioneer DV-600AV outputs DSD over HDMI, but if the video output resolution is the same or less than 576p the audio output may be limited to 2 channel. Seems this is due to the HDMI standard (hilarious, really, read it elsewhere).
That's a half-truth. You do have to take an extra step to output high-res audio with SD video, but it's a very simple extra step (basically doubling the clock and sending every pixel twice, much like with 480i). HDMI fully supports it, but many manufacturers can't be bothered to implement it.