My 18 month old Harmony 880 has several buttons failing. I called service to see if this company would do the right thing and stand behind an obvious product flaw on one of their premium items. This was their response:





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Brief Summary

Buttons are operating harder than they used to.



Discussion Thread

Response (Mark L)

06/27/2007 06:35 PM

Dear Ronny,

Thank you for your recent inquiry about your Harmony Remote

We are sorry to hear about your defective Harmony Remote. Your account information indicates that your remote is out of warranty and so we are unable to offer you a replacement unit. Please see below for full details of our warranty policy.

We do offer repair services for your Harmony Remote and would be glad to provide you with a quotation. In order for us to provide an accurate quotation we require that the damaged remote be returned to us. As soon as we receive the damaged remote we will contact you with a price which will include any parts, labor and shipping. If you choose to accept the quotation we will require credit card payment to authorize and initiate the repair work. **Please allow 2-3 weeks for repair after receipt of damaged remote**

I have assigned RMA # xxxxxxxxx to this issue and include RMA instructions below, outlining how to return the defective unit for assessment.

RMA Instructions:

Please return the defective unit to us. Your RMA number is xxxxxxxxx.
Our preferred shipment method is Canada Post or United States Postal Service.
PLEASE NOTE: WE DO NOT ACCEPT UPS SHIPMENTS.
If you do not have the original box, please ensure that the Harmony is well padded for its journey.

Please ensure that for customs purposes you state the following:
Value: $10
Contents: Return of Remote Control manufactured in Canada.
If you do not state the above, customs may mistakenly charge us duty.

The address is:

Remote Control Business Unit
Logitech
Attn: Returns Department, RMA # xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
2355 Skymark Avenue, Suite 200
Mississauga, Ontario
L4W 4Y6
Canada
____________________________________________________________ ______________________
Warranty Policy

Limited Warranty. Logitech warrants that any hardware product shall be free from significant defects in material and workmanship for a period on one (1) year from the date of purchase. Logitech’s limited warranty is non-transferable and is limited to the original purchaser. The warranty gives you specific legal rights, and you may also have other rights, which vary under local laws.

Remedies. Logitech’s entire liability and your exclusive remedy for any breach of warranty shall be, at Logitech’s option, to: (a) repair or replace the hardware, or (b) refund the price paid, provided that the hardware is returned to the point of purchase or such other place as Logitech may direct, with a copy of the sales receipt. Any replacement hardware will be warranted to the remainder of the original warranty period or thirty (30) days whichever is longer. These remedies are void, if failure of the hardware has resulted from accident, abuse, misapplication, or any unauthorized repair, modification or disassembly. Further, for cordless devices, these remedies are void if you use battery types other than those recommended by Logitech. Upon request from Logitech, you must prove the date of the original purchase of the hardware by a dated bill of sale or dated itemized receipt.

DISCLAIMER OF WARRANTY THE WARRANTIES EXPRESSLY SET FORTH IN THIS AGREEMENT REPLACE ALL OTHER WARRANTIES, LOGITECH AND ITS SUPPLIERS EXPRESSLY DISCLAIM ALL OTHER, INCLUDING, BUT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND NONINFRINGEMENT OF THIRD PARTY RIGHTS WITH RESPECT TO THE HARDWARE, SOFTWARE, DOCUMENTATION AND ANY OTHER MATERIALS PROVIDED BY THE LOGITECH AND/OR ITS SUPPLIERS, AND ANY WARRANTIES OF NON-INTERFERENCE OR ACCURACY OF INFORMATIONAL CONTENT. NO LOGITECH DEALER, AGENT, OR EMPLOYEE IS AUTHORISED TO MAKE ANY MODIFICATION, EXTENSION, OR ADDITION TO THIS WARRANTY. Some jurisdictions do not allow limitations on how long an implied warranty lasts, so the above limitation may not apply to you.

LIMITATION OF LIABILITY. IN NO EVENT WILL LOGITECH OR ITS SUPPLIERS BE LIABLE FOR ANY COSTS OF PROCUREMENT OF SUBSTITUTE PRODUCTS OR SERVICES, LOST PROFITS, LOSS OF INFORMATION OR DATA, OR ANY OTHER SPECIAL, INDIRECT, CONSEQUENTIAL, OR INCIDENTAL DAMAGES ARISING IN ANY WAY OUT OF THE SALE OF, USE OF, OR INABILITY TO USE ANY LOGITECH PRODUCT OR SERVICE, EVEN IF LOGITECH HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES. IN NO CASE SHALL LOGITECH’S AND ITS SUPPLIERS’ TOTAL LIABILITY EXCEEDS THE ACTUAL MONEY PAID FOR THE LOGITECH PRODUCT OR SERVICE GIVING RISE TO THE LIABILITY. Some jurisdictions do not allow the exclusion or limitation of incidental or consequential damages, so the above limitation or exclusion may not apply to you. The above limitation will not apply in case of personal injury where and to the extent that applicable law requires such liability.
If you would like further information and other tips on customizing your remote please visit the FAQ portion of your Harmony member website. To access, Click “Support”, then click “FAQ” while logged in your harmony member page.

We hope that we were able to assist you in resolving this issue, however if you are still experiencing any difficulties with your Harmony Remote, please feel free to contact us again. Please click the link below for our support hours and contact information.



Regards,

Harmony Technical Support

I'm not sure what your issue is. The warranty clearly states that it's good for 1 year, and you've been using the remote for 18 months. Their response back to you was not rude, it was simply stating that you're out of warranty, and they'll fix it at your expense if you send it to them.

While I love companies that bend their clearly stated rules in my favor as much as the next guy, to expect them to do it is extremely presumptuous. I've been using my Harmony 880 for about 3 years with no problems whatsoever. If I suddenly have a problem, should I expect them to "stand behind an obvious product flaw"?

Why is this an obvious product flaw? I've never heard of buttons failing. I've heard of recharging issues and tilt functions where the backlight is concerned failing with one of the updates, but not this.

And if their warranty is for 12 months, why should they honor it after 18 months? If they honor yours at 18 months, then they should honor mine at 3 years, right? Since we're going to start setting our own arbitrary limits on warranty terms, why not?

I don't mean any of this personally, but seriously, deal with it.

I posted this so others making a decision about this company and products would have more information. I made no judgements in my post. It is up to the reader and future customers of Logitech to judge for themselves.

Others have had this problem. Be happy ...very happy!

My first 890 would not connect with the RF extender

Its replacement has a failing button. Just before the warranty expires luckily. Others have had buttons fail and even fall off.

Its replacement that I just received won't update at all.

Hope my fourth remote from them works. Yea, I'd say they have quality control problems. Not to mention their programming system was designed by M.C. Escher.

If you purchased the remote with a credit card you may have an additional year of coverage through the card's extended warranty plan. You'll have to call your company for exact details, but in general they add an extra year and pay for the repairs themselves.

If you purchased the remote with a credit card you may have an additional year of coverage through the card's extended warranty plan ...
Wow! That's good to know bryans! Thanks for the info! Also, on the same theme, I believe that Costco extend the warranty on any purchases in their stores too ... just in case it was bought there.

I do agree a warranty period is a warranty period ... errr ... period! (Sorry for that pun!) but it is also nice to see companies that go a little farther on high end products (any TV remote over $100 is "high end" to frugal ol' me). It would be nice if they would offer to pay postage or something, even if he still gets to pay for the repair, or vice versa.

I had a case where VW paid for an engine repair two years after the end of the warranty simply because the dealer told them that we did all our services on time at with an official dealer every time.

P.S. schroedk really cute kid!

... Brief Summary

Buttons are operating harder than they used to ...
If that's what you told them ronny, it doesn't actually sound very serious ... makes it sound as though you just think you have to press a bit harder than before or something. Does not sound like a "failure" or flaw. It's a bit like a car owner saying "my doors seem to bang louder when I close them" or "the brakes are a bit softer than when the car was new". Maybe you should have given more of an impression of buttons that won't work any more at all ...

Sorry to hear that, but I feel your pain. I tried a Harmony remote with the 880. I could go on for 30 minutes about how crappy they are, the programming is, and their tech support is, but I'll just say here, one 880 broke in 30 days which didn't surprise me because they feel like cheap pieces of junk. The smartest thing anyone could do is avoid a Harmony at all cost.

I'm not sure what your issue is. The warranty clearly states that it's good for 1 year, and you've been using the remote for 18 months. Their response back to you was not rude, it was simply stating that you're out of warranty, and they'll fix it at your expense if you send it to them.

I think part of his problem is that it is such a POS it broke in 18 months. In the 25+ years of remote usage and the 10+ years of universal remote usage, I've never had any remote break. A life expectancy of 18 months is pretty short. I'd be pissed at the low quality of the product also--in fact, I am!

What part of "1 year warranty" do you not understand? Why should they have to repair/replace something 6 months out of warranty? If it were, say, a couple of weeks past the warranty, they might make good on it. If not, you might have something to whine about.

Get a life...

I suggest calling Harmony/Logitech. I had a defective 676 that was out of warranty (only by a month or two.) I got a very nice customer service rep on the phone and they replaced my out-of-warranty remote. Better approach is to be nice/complementary, etc. Overall, I have found Harmony's tech support and customer service to be superb.

Your account information indicates that your remote is out of warranty and so we are unable to offer you a replacement unit. Please see below for full details of our warranty policy.

First, I agree with the people that are saying that it's outside the warranty period. I also don't think any less of Logitech or the product as a result of their response. Stuff breaks. I read on another forum of a guy with a URC MX-950 that has a bad LCD screen. He's just out of warranty and has to pay for the repairs, and that's a $700 remote.

Having said that, this situation seems easy to resolve. Create a new account, reprogram the remote from that account, and in a month or two open a support ticket that the remote is defective. They'll look at the account information, see you opened it two months ago, and voila.

You mean the buttons have no action left to them (ie. there is no movement when you press them, they feel real stiff?). This happened to me on about 4 different buttons. Luckily I was still in warranty.
These things are built cheaply for the masses; the URC's I've owned are like tanks.

Sorry to hear that, but I feel your pain ... one 880 broke in 30 days which didn't surprise me because they feel like cheap pieces of junk ...
I will certainly back you up on that if any of the Harmony remotes I know about break, but to be fair, you might mention your other post where you state you bought two of these for $100 each ... how reliable was that source I wonder ... I do not think I would have been that surprised either if I had paid that price.

(And please, I am not trying to get you going on that 30 minute rant you mentioned!)

Cheap solution:

Remove the front panel and gain access to the contact pad. Use a Q-Tip and some rubbing alcohol and clean the dirt/grime/grease off the pad. Works everytime for the type of problem you're describing (unresponsive/difficult-to-press buttons). Remotes last for a LONG time, as long as you maintain the contact pad. Today's remotes don't keep dirt/grime/grease away from the contact pad very well. I've had manufacturer's remotes go bad after just a few months from this problem. Just clean it and all will be well.

One more possibility... I have a 680 (688?) that I've had over 3 years. Cleaning the contact pads didn't help much. The problem was that the back of the buttons had little rubber nubs that were worn down. I had read on another forum that you could buy a replacement keypad for $10. When I went to customer support they knew nothing about it and made me jump through all their troubleshooting hoops to get to a level 2 tech who still knew nothing about it. My 2nd call I made a different selection at the auto-attendant (other than tech support) and the person that answered took all of 5 minutes to process my order for a replacement keypad... total cost $10. Unit was good as new.

Any other fixes, guys? My 520 is having button issues starting with Play and has been working it's way down the right side over time. Now Pause, Info, and Menu are becoming progressively more difficult to press. I bought it at launch 2-2.5 years ago, so I have already gotten my $100 out of it, but I figured I'd look to fix it instead of buying a new one.

The Q-tip cleaning idea won't work for this remote as the contacts aren't exposed. It is much like a keyboard, where the contacts are sandwiches between plastic film layers, but unlike a keyboard, that sandwich is sealed.

Ordering up a new keypad seems like a rad idea though! :)

Edit: I'm crazy! Only part of the remote uses the switch-sandwich. The area that is broken is using regular contacts. Time to clean them. :)

Edit2: Well, after fiddling with it, it looks like the rubber keypad seems to be the issue. The rubber pegs below the commonly used buttons are just not stiff enough anymore. Any ideas for a conductive material to put between the peg and the board until I can figure out how to order a new pad?

I seem to be obsessed with fixing my Harmony this morning. :) Upon further inspection, the conductive contact on the bottom of the pad is the issue. I little pencil lead drawn on the pad makes it work like new again. This is probably not a long term solution though, so does anyone know of a conductive paint that can easily be found in retail? Or maybe a thin, self-stick foil?

I have an 880 that has a few buttons that have to be pressed really hard a few times to get them to work and a few other buttons that just won't work no matter how hard you press them. I tried cleaning the contacts with a Q-tip and alcohol and the buttons still won't work. But I did try the buttons with just the contacts exposed and they all worked so I'm guessing it's the keypad. I bought this remote from a co-worker and he said it was 14 months old, but he also said the buttons never did work right. He failed to tell me this until after I bought it and complained that it didn't work. But he did offer to give me my money back so it's his again as of tomorrow. I did try to get it replaced through Logitech and they said no receipt, no replacement. Oh well.

Sorry to hear that, but I feel your pain. I tried a Harmony remote with the 880. I could go on for 30 minutes about how crappy they are, the programming is, and their tech support is, but I'll just say here, one 880 broke in 30 days which didn't surprise me because they feel like cheap pieces of junk. The smartest thing anyone could do is avoid a Harmony at all cost.


I tried a Harmony remote from Sam's Club. What a piece of Crap! Some of the buttons would stick when pressed, the keyboard was layed out very poorly, the buttons are poorly labled and too small, and the chapter jump buttons (which had to be used via the LCD screen) were backwards from convention ie jump ahead was the LEFT button and jump back was the RIGHT one...ugh. The buttons to work the DVR were at the bottom making it impossible to use without holding in the other hand. What a piece of trash this company makes! I won't even get into what a mess programming it via the web proved to be. I did get it to mostly work my components, but the poor button layout doomed it in my book. I took it back the next day. I'll just stick with my remote clutter...at least they are easy to work. Don't buy the model at Sam's Club for sure! The model 670 looks somewhat better thought out from what I can see on pics on the web.

While everyone's welcome to their opinion, I'll stick up for Harmony a little.

I've had an 880 going on 3 years, an 890 going on 2 years, and a 659 going on 2 years. The 880 has been used all 3 years in the family room, with a 4 year old and a 2 year old in the house, which has shortened the life span of plenty of other things in our home. The 890 has been used in the basement theater, and the 659 has been in the master bedroom. While programming is sometimes hit and miss, and takes several tries to tweak things just right, they're programmed to perfection now. Button layout on the LCD is entirely configurable if you spend any amount of time playing with the software, so chapter forward and back can be configured correctly. I've had no charging issues or sticky buttons with any of them. As far as ergonomics goes, I've never used a remote, even the major expensive ones, that fit "perfectly" in my hand; however, I realize that everyone's different and manufacturers must design a remote to meet somewhere in the average of users' hands.

While I will be the first to admit that there are a number of disgruntled Harmony users, to say that their remotes are "all crap" is a bit ingenuous. I had a Volkswagen that was "a piece of crap", but I would never say that everyone would be smart to avoid Volkswagens at all costs.

Depending on your own personal experience, the same things could be said for pretty much everything that's ever been mass produced.

And, lest anyone accuse me of anything, no I don't work for Logitech or have any vested interest, monetarily or otherwise, in the company.

I went through 2 880's in two years; I got tired of constantly sending it back so just gave up (stuck buttons, never ever working tilt sensors on both, crappy charger base connections, etc)
I agree that the ergonimics are horrific; it is extremely difficult to hit the lower digits without the remote falling out of your hand. Not to mention that you can feel your way around this remote in the dark (I still have to look after two years).
On the other hand, I've owned 3 Home Theater master remotes over the last five years, and all I can say is, wow, what a difference in build quality and layout. No comparison. Zero issues.
If you've held an MX-900 in your hand, you'll weep for having lived with the layout of the 880.
I only picked up the 880 on a whim when it was $80 at Dell new a few years back.
While it is very easy to program, costs less than the HTM line, and you don't have hassles with obtaining software to program it, I still would spend the money to get a HTM remote over a Harmony.

I have no vested interest in anything save to help others make an educated decision if cost isn't their primary concern.

With the wide variety of button layouts that there are througout the Harmony line, complaining about button layout is frankly not a valild complaint guys. You don't like that the transport buttons on the 880 are on the lower part of the remote? Great! Good thing they make 10 other remotes where the transport buttons are further up on the remote!

This is one of those things where the consumer has to take responsability for their own decisions. You could plainly see where the buttons were located before you bought the thing. How is it the remote's fault that you don't like it?

With the wide variety of button layouts that there are througout the Harmony line, complaining about button layout is frankly not a valild complaint guys. You don't like that the transport buttons on the 880 are on the lower part of the remote? Great! Good thing they make 10 other remotes where the transport buttons are further up on the remote!

This is one of those things where the consumer has to take responsability for their own decisions. You could plainly see where the buttons were located before you bought the thing. How is it the remote's fault that you don't like it?


Maybe instead of making 10 versions they should concentrate on making ONE GOOD ONE! It doesn't say much when Comcast's DVR remote is relatively a marvel of ergonomics, easier to use in the dark despite no lighting, and has much better 'feel' to the buttons than the Harmony. As for trying it out before buying, how the heck I am supposed to know how inconvenient it is laid out when it is sealed in plastic that makes it impossible to try out at the store. (And boy was it fun to try to get out of the package!) Nor how was I to know that the lighted buttons are not very readable in the dark. This thing is a total joke of design. Thank God Sam's is so easy to return things to. If anyone else likes their Harmony so be it. It's a free country. :)

With the wide variety of button layouts that there are througout the Harmony line, complaining about button layout is frankly not a valild complaint guys. You don't like that the transport buttons on the 880 are on the lower part of the remote? Great! Good thing they make 10 other remotes where the transport buttons are further up on the remote!

This is one of those things where the consumer has to take responsability for their own decisions. You could plainly see where the buttons were located before you bought the thing. How is it the remote's fault that you don't like it?

I you want a handheld non-touch screen remote with RF, then the 890 was your only option. Nearly every HTM remote, on the other hand, has RF capability. Your options with Harmony are limited, regardless of what you say. If you want a handheld with full color LCD screen and backlighting, the 880/890 HAS been your only choice for years now.

I you want a handheld non-touch screen remote with RF, then the 890 was your only option. Nearly every HTM remote, on the other hand, has RF capability. Your options with Harmony are limited, regardless of what you say. If you want a handheld with full color LCD screen and backlighting, the 880/890 HAS been your only choice for years now.

And if I want a URC with a full color LCD screen my option is the MX-810 (last I checked the MX-980 still wasn't out). And I'm willing to bet plenty of people will be, if they aren't already, whining about the asymmetrical shape of the Volume and Channel buttons on the 810.

What annoys the heck out of me about conversations like this is everyone likes to make grand statements like they are universal truths. For example:

This thing is a total joke of design.

I happen to like the design, it works well for me. However AlanBuck seems to think that because it doesn't work for him that it's a "total joke of design." No, it's not suited for his liking, it's not a "total joke." It does everything I need it to do for my system (Pio PDP-6010FD, Yammy RX-V1500, XBox 360, PS3, Denon DVD-1920, Moto QIP6412), I don't feel there's ever been anything I've needed it to do that it doesn't, and it fits my hand just fine.

God I get sick of the arrogance people show in forums when they are hiding behind the anonymity of their keyboards.

And if I want a URC with a full color LCD screen my option is the MX-810 (last I checked the MX-980 still wasn't out). And I'm willing to bet plenty of people will be, if they aren't already, whining about the asymmetrical shape of the Volume and Channel buttons on the 810.

What annoys the heck out of me about conversations like this is everyone likes to make grand statements like they are universal truths. For example:



I happen to like the design, it works well for me. However AlanBuck seems to think that because it doesn't work for him that it's a "total joke of design." No, it's not suited for his liking, it's not a "total joke." It does everything I need it to do for my system (Pio PDP-6010FD, Yammy RX-V1500, XBox 360, PS3, Denon DVD-1920, Moto QIP6412), I don't feel there's ever been anything I've needed it to do that it doesn't, and it fits my hand just fine.

God I get sick of the arrogance people show in forums when they are hiding behind the anonymity of their keyboards.


Sounds like you own stock in, and/ or work for the company. :) BTW I was able to check out the model 670 at Best Buy where you can actually touch one on display. The buttons have the worst feel I ever experienced on a remote, buttons are smaller than typical, the labeling is so tiny you can barely read it, and the layout is still not good. Most original remotes I have are a wonder of design compared to these. If you like yours that's great. Don't put me down for not liking it though. The concept is a great idea...the execution could be done a LOT better. These things are not cheap, but they sure seem cheaply made. I don't think it's 'arrogant' to expect better for the price. I have checked out 2 of their models now, and I honestly wouldn't pay 25 bucks for either. That's how poor I feel they are. Why does anyone get offended that I am less than impressed?? I am just as entitled to my opinion as anyone else. You can feel free to agree or disagree.