So after returning 4 46d92u sets due to horrid clouding, flashlighting, and banding, my tv guy told me to try the 50" panasonic 700u. I hadn't considered plasma because I plan to mainly use the set for gaming (ps3) and I am scared of burn in. He told me that they "fixed that issue" but the manual for the tv says it is still a problem.

Also I've been reading that after a few years the brightness on plasma displays degrades quite drasticly to the point that it ends up being only half as bright as it originally was.

Can anyone comment on either of these issues? I'm getting tired of trying to find a flawless lcd but don't know which is worse.Thanks so much!

-Dan

You still need to be conscious of burn in and image retention with plasma's.

The half life on plasma's bought today or last year is about 60,000 hours for the major brands...ie panasonic, samsung and pioneer.

60000 hours is roughly 8hrs a day for 20 years....far longer than a "few" years that you've been told.

If you read on panny's website they say that once broken in burn-in is no more an issue on their plasma than it would be on a tube tv.

My guess is, that it is probably a little worse than they lead you to believe on their site but I have read over and over again that once broken in (especially after the 1000 hour mark) it is fairly difficult to actually burn in a plasma.

Burn in is pretty tough to do these days, but there is always that once in a blue moon anecdotal occurrence of it which ends up setting all the already prone-to-worry shoppers on edge all over again. :rolleyes: Image retention is a bit more common, but it's a minor issue for most people who encounter it with their plasmas.. that's if they even encounter it at all. Personally, I wouldn't sweat it, regardless of how many hours of gaming you play per day. There have been too too many plasma owners who have come on this board to say it hasn't been a problem for them whatsoever for me to advise you to worry about it much. BUT.. there are always those once in a while exceptions who rant and rave about how terrible it is for them. Either you go with the majority experience or you be extra cautious and heed the minority IR experiences and opt for another panel tech for ultimate peace of mind; lcd, etc.

I wouldn't put much stock in what the plasma instructional manuals warn. In this day of age when the fear of litigation is such that even the most ridiculously obvious warnings are added to the instruction material for any type of products you buy, you have to take those warnings with a chunk of salt.

Thank you for purchasing our Acme set of steak knives! Always handle them with great care. They should be used to cut food items only. Do not poke, thrust or slice your knives in the direction of your own flesh. This may result in severe bleeding and possible death, at which point, you will no longer be able to enjoy your wonderful Acme steak knives!, etc., etc. :D


Also I've been reading that after a few years the brightness on plasma displays degrades quite drastically to the point that it ends up being only half as bright as it originally was.



Put this one to bed. Most modern plasmas have an estimated life of 60,000 hours. Half life, the mark where brightness supposedly lessens to half of it's original level, is 30,000 hours. To get to 30,000 hours, that would be 8 hours every day, 365 days a year, or.. 10 years to reach half brightness. And even at half brightness, you won't hardly notice a difference, esp. as you'll be able to overcome any degradation of brightness by adjusting your settings to compensate.

CRTs have the same half life brightness issues as plasmas. As a pt. of reference, I still own a 20 year old Mitsubishi CRT TV which looks the same to me as the day I bought it. I'm sure if I had a brand new one of the same model and I was able to compare it side by side with my 20 year old version of the same, I would see a difference, but without that.. I don't notice any difference (or I've made subtle adjustments over the years to compensate, though I don't have any distinct recollections of having done so).

Bottom line, worrying about this "issue" is like worrying about getting killed by an occurence of baseball sized hail. Sure, it could happen, but there's so much else you'd be better off worrying about.

Burn in is pretty tough to do these days, but there is always that once in a blue moon anecdotal occurrence of it which ends up setting all the already prone-to-worry shoppers on edge all over again. :rolleyes: Image retention is a bit more common, but it's a minor issue for most people who encounter it with their plasmas.. that's if they even encounter it at all. Personally, I wouldn't sweat it, regardless of how many hours of gaming you play per day. There have been too too many plasma owners who have come on this board to say it hasn't been a problem for them whatsoever for me to advise you to worry about it much. BUT.. there are always those once in a while exceptions who rant and rave about how terrible it is for them. Either you go with the majority experience or you be extra cautious and heed the minority IR experiences and opt for another panel tech for ultimate peace of mind; lcd, etc.

I wouldn't put much stock in what the plasma instructional manuals warn. In this day of age when the fear of litigation is such that even the most ridiculously obvious warnings are added to the instruction material for any type of products you buy, you have to take those warnings with a chunk of salt.

Thank you for purchasing our Acme set of steak knives! Always handle them with great care. They should be used to cut food items only. Do not poke, thrust or slice your knives in the direction of your own flesh. This may result in severe bleeding and possible death, at which point, you will no longer be able to enjoy your wonderful Acme steak knives!, etc., etc. :D



Put this one to bed. Most modern plasmas have an estimated life of 60,000 hours. Half life, the mark where brightness supposedly lessens to half of it's original level, is 30,000 hours. To get to 30,000 hours, that would be 8 hours every day, 365 days a year, or.. 10 years to reach half brightness. And even at half brightness, you won't hardly notice a difference, esp. as you'll be able to overcome any degradation of brightness by adjusting your settings to compensate.

CRTs have the same half life brightness issues as plasmas. As a pt. of reference, I still own a 20 year old Mitsubishi CRT TV which looks the same to me as the day I bought it. I'm sure if I had a brand new one of the same model and I was able to compare it side by side with my 20 year old version of the same, I would see a difference, but without that.. I don't notice any difference (or I've made subtle adjustments over the years to compensate, though I don't have any distinct recollections of having done so).

Bottom line, worrying about this "issue" is like worrying about getting killed by an occurence of baseball sized hail. Sure, it could happen, but there's so much else you'd be better off worrying about.

You might want to reread what the major MFG's are saying. 60,000 HOUR half life. Not 30,000 hour half life's.

This thread brings up something that I keep hearing ... "If you didn't have trouble on your tube TV, you won't have a problem with plasma."

For the past three years, I have been using a 40" Sony Tube TV (Sony WEGA KV-40XBR800) and have played countless hours of video games, watched DVDs with black bars, and have never had any worry of a burn-in.

Am I to understand that if since I did not have any issues with the past television, I will not have an issue with a future plasma?

So after returning 4 46d92u sets due to horrid clouding, flashlighting, and banding, my tv guy told me to try the 50" panasonic 700u. I hadn't considered plasma because I plan to mainly use the set for gaming (ps3) and I am scared of burn in. He told me that they "fixed that issue" but the manual for the tv says it is still a problem.

Also I've been reading that after a few years the brightness on plasma displays degrades quite drasticly to the point that it ends up being only half as bright as it originally was.

Can anyone comment on either of these issues? I'm getting tired of trying to find a flawless lcd but don't know which is worse.Thanks so much!

-Dan
Your post intrests me because it sounds to me like my experience from 2 years ago but from the other away around. I bought a plasma because I believed plasma was better. From experience it doesn't matter what tech you buy either one can have problems.

So boils down to what you prefer, heres some of my thoughts. With plasma don't worry about burn-in (but I'm not a gamer) it wasn't a concern of mine. Glare and reflections you better worry about this one, if you have a window behind your seating area forget plasma unless you can completly black it out. Also C-Net review on the 700 shows all patterns stable on "black level retention" which is good. Black level retention was the issue I had with plasma and if you want to know what it is, look at the Hitachi flicker thread in this forum.

Having owned LCD for 2 years now I prefer LCD over plasma from the PQ POV. It just looks better to me, and its because of the white level which is LCD's strength (brighter). IMO its a hard time to buy because of these new plasma's and LCD's which should be out soon. But I've been reading here for awhile and hype of both tech's is number one and its always going to be bigger and better and its never delivered. Mostly just baby steps.

You really need to think about what you prefer and don't let anybody tell you which one is better. And its natural to jump from one tech to the other when your having problems. But you can find a good working TV from either tech. Its a preference and the grass isn't greener on either side of the fence.

BTW: Remember your in the plasma forum so what to you think your going to hear? My guess some truth and alot of bias.

So after returning 4 46d92u sets due to horrid clouding, flashlighting, and banding, my tv guy told me to try the 50" panasonic 700u. I hadn't considered plasma because I plan to mainly use the set for gaming (ps3) and I am scared of burn in. He told me that they "fixed that issue" but the manual for the tv says it is still a problem.

Also I've been reading that after a few years the brightness on plasma displays degrades quite drasticly to the point that it ends up being only half as bright as it originally was.

Can anyone comment on either of these issues? I'm getting tired of trying to find a flawless lcd but don't know which is worse.Thanks so much!

-Dan

Dan, have you considered your expectation for any TV may be too high? Sharp isn't exactly the best when it comes to picture quality. Ask yourself, am I hard to please? Do I find fault in others or do I find fault in inanimate objects when the real problem lies within oneself.

The grass is greener on the plasma side of things. You have some preconceived notions that are incorrect both about LCD and Plasma. I'm not knocking LCD because I think it's bad. LCD is good, but not as good as plasma.

Let me guess you purchased your set from an uninformed sales monkey at a big box or worse the 'net! Go to a real retailer and buy a plasma. I can't stand morons that say that LCD is SOOOOOOOOOOOOO great and plasma is BAD. What do they know...not much other than what the "experts online or at BB, CC, etc. told him.
I have no idea why the big boxes are pushing LCD (easy sale I guess). I have yet to setup a LCD that looks good. They suck! Cartoon like image, crappy black levels (nice shade of purple)!, noisy picture, etc. I have seen 1980 Zenith TV's that look better!!! Trust me I want to like LCD...but I can't sell it and live with myself.
Here's a good one: "But it's SO BRIGHT" HELLO bright picture equals high black levels (meaning purplish or gray instead of black)!!!
Do you have a laptop or cellphone. Does the picture get better when you adjust the angle? Well Sparky, a Sharp LCD (or any LCD) has poor off axis viewing angles!!!
I have an idea...get off line, visit a dealer that will answer your questions, give you the correct info, and not BS you.
Good luck

If you game for more than 50% of your panel's use, you'll get IR incidents, no matter how you spin it. Your overall picture will suffer. If this is your main HDTV, and you don't want random IR artifacts on your screen, you'd be better off not thinking about it and go LCD.

If you game for more than 50% of your panel's use, you'll get IR incidents, no matter how you spin it. Your overall picture will suffer. If this is your main HDTV, and you don't want random IR artifacts on your screen, you'd be better off not thinking about it and go LCD.
Did you perform a study with gaming on Plasma's? Do you own a Plasma?

I get IR on my 4270HD at 1k+ hours that can last for up to 40 hours of continous viewing.

Before we throw the baby out with the bathwater, has anyone else had the long term IR effects on their plasma sets as Lodrin has experienced?

Even though all plasma sets are based on the same principles, each company's implementation will vary slightly.

Most manufacturers use their own formulation for phosphors, so the IR viewed with one plasma set may not be the case with another manufacturer's set.

I think many people percieve that if 1 plasma set exhibits an issue then they all must have this problem. When in reality it may just be the case with that particular brand and possibly model.

OK, I have always been a skeptic of the LCD/Plasma debate but here is my 2 cents.

I bought my first HDTV in April -- a Panny TH-42PH9UK Pro Plasma off the Internet on the recommendation of a friend who does custom calibrations (in another city) -- nice deal for $1,000 plus a free five-year warranty. My neighbor bought a $3,000 46-inch Samsung LCD 1080p from Best Buy last month. Another neighbor had a Sony Bravia LCD bought a year or two ago for more than $3,500. I took a look at the same HD Discovery Channel program on all three screens yesterday -- same lighting conditions in the houses. No question, the Panny wins going away, and for the price difference it is ridiculous. The LCD had pasty skin tones in comparison -- and the blacks were just so much better on the Plasma. My nice deal is now a great deal.

Now, for sure, I might be biased since my investment is in Plasma, but the viewing test was for another neighbor who was trying to decide LCD or Plasma. And yes, for sure, her eyes told her the same thing -- Plasma wins going away. It just looks better, more real, more alive. game over. The reflection argument goes away with the newly introduced anti-glare glass on the Panny's and Pioneers. The burn-in issue is also a minor one if one just uses common sense -- and the screensavers they have on these sets make it moot. Lifespan is also a non-argument -- 60,000-hour halflife is a lot, actually too much TV viewing. And, would Panasonic give me a five year free guarantee if they thought their monitor is going to break?

To me it is clear, it is Plasma 42-inches and above, and LCD's below that with the crossover point at 37 inches, where Plasma is giving up on that market. Thus, your primary HDTV should be Plasma, and your secondary smaller sets should be LCD.

As a disclaimer, I do not have any connection to any Plasma or LCD business.

Cheers,
PTB

This thread brings up something that I keep hearing ... "If you didn't have trouble on your tube TV, you won't have a problem with plasma."

For the past three years, I have been using a 40" Sony Tube TV (Sony WEGA KV-40XBR800) and have played countless hours of video games, watched DVDs with black bars, and have never had any worry of a burn-in.

Am I to understand that if since I did not have any issues with the past television, I will not have an issue with a future plasma?That is because manufactures have had 58 years to figure out burn in for crt. Why do you think they are the most reliable tv?

I get IR on my 4270HD at 1k+ hours that can last for up to 40 hours of continous viewing.

I have had my pioneer 6070 for 1month now with about 130hrs. I play Call of Duty on the PS3 all the time sometimes for 1hr - 2hrs and of course I receive IR but it goes away in a couple of mins. I have to actually look closely on the tv for it and can only see it on an all black screen. To the OP I wanted to get one of those Sharp LCD's because I game alot too and was scared of "burn in" but it is none existent if you are mindful and not abuse the tv. You definatley will not be disappointed with the pq of the pioneer.