Revel started to ship Ultima2 series few days ago...

http://www.avguide.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/kevin_voecks_pro_team.jpg

http://www.avguide.com/news/2007/06/29/the-years-most-eagerly-anticipated-product-introduction-revel-ultima-salon-2/

Since I order Ultima Salon2 I will give you my in-depth review with lot of pictures in few months...

That Revel has got to be just about the best engineered [analog?] speaker on the planet. If I had to bet on a speaker purely on design, that would be the one.

That Revel has got to be just about the best engineered [analog?] speaker on the planet. If I had to bet on a speaker purely on design, that would be the one.

And the basis for your comment? Or you just trying to knock on Wilson indirectly? :rolleyes:

Yes, "Andrew", just to annoy you. :rolleyes:

Could you possibly be a little more sensitive? Not everything revolves around Wilson Audio. If I wanted to knock on Wilson, I'd do it directly, it's incredibly easy to do. Just post a few graphs of the measured performance followed by the price tag. Wilson has never made a speaker that measures as well as a Revel and probably couldn't if he tried. I don't have any ties at all to Revel, but I admire their scientific, rather than sellably euphonic "boom and sizzle", approach.

As for the Revels, the driver materials are state of the art, the driver layout, number of drivers, sizes and 4-way design are about as ideal as ideal gets and that's before the low diffraction baffle, the 4th order crossovers. The only thing I'd go for to get it that much closer is acoustic suspension woofers, but I could live with it as the woofers won't be getting fed any midrange energy to vent from the port.

I'd love to hear these, but am I the only person who thinks that the orignal Ultima series looks much better?

I'd love to hear these, but am I the only person who thinks that the orignal Ultima series looks much better?

I didn't like how the old ones looked. As someone else said, like metal hotdogs in big wooden buns.

I hope they sound better than the old ones for the change in price. I didn't like how the old ones sounded. I listened to the Salon compared with an 800D and Magnepan MG20.1 all at the same store. I liked The Salon the least out of all of them... The 800D sounded the best IMO out of those three, so I decided to keep my 802D until I saved up enough for the W/P8. The Ultima2 Salon2s were a consideration for awhile, but I never got to hear them and I got tired of waiting.

I have heard good things about the Ultima2s already though. So I am excited to go to some of the local dealers near me who carry Revels and see if they live up to the hype. I'm always happy to hear a good thing come along.

I didn't like how the old ones looked. As someone else said, like metal hotdogs in big wooden buns.

I hope they sound better than the old ones for the change in price. I didn't like how the old ones sounded. I listened to the Salon compared with an 800D and Magnepan MG20.1 all at the same store. I liked The Salon the least out of all of them... The 800D sounded the best IMO out of those three, so I decided to keep my 802D until I saved up enough for the W/P8. The Ultima2 Salon2s were a consideration for awhile, but I never got to hear them and I got tired of waiting.

I have heard good things about the Ultima2s already though. So I am excited to go to some of the local dealers near me who carry Revels and see if they live up to the hype. I'm always happy to hear a good thing come along.
The problem with evaluating speakers at store is that the former is virtually defined by the room where it is amplified to reproduce sound, and stores are not always properly set-up nor do the vendors often know how to best set them up. Even in cases were the vendor has insight on how to setup speakers, you still have the problem that it is a store, and other considerations must come into place. Also, even though all speakers must play under the same limited conditions, the effects are not the same on all speakers.

The problem with evaluating speakers at store is that the former is virtually defined by the room where it is amplified to reproduce sound, and stores are not always properly set-up nor do the vendors often know how to best set them up. Even in cases were the vendor has insight on how to setup speakers, you still have the problem that it is a store, and other considerations must come into place. Also, even though all speakers must play under the same limited conditions, the effects are not the same on all speakers.

I guess we will never know if any speaker is ever any good unless an officially trained representative of that speaker company comes to a specially designed room and places them in the right spot in that room. Unless of course Revel demands their dealers be trained to set them up properly in different types of rooms and under different types of limitations.

Does Revel train all their dealers to set them up properly according to Revel specifications? Does Revel demand their dealers know how to set them up properly in any type of room, and under certain workable limitations?

The truth is, all things considered, no matter what you do you may never be certain they have been placed exactly right or are in the right kind of environment, as at a certain level of detail that too is a subjective consideration, much like speaker preference. I guess we just can't have opinions on speakers, since we can never be certain they were set up correctly in the room or placed in the correct environment, but that thinking doesn't do anyone much good either IMO.

I'm satisfied to think, based on my experiences at stores (in demo rooms) with speakers I have owned and now own, as well as at a convention recently, again with speakers I own, that you can hear enough of a speakers character in any room and in any setup. Certain qualities are retained no matter where you put it, reasonably speaking. You do need to hear past the acoustical ambience (acoustical coupling and other issues of the original recording space melding with the reproduction space), but if you know what to listen for you can hear the character behind the spacial cues and reflection anomalies and scale everything to the size room you are inside.

To say otherwise IMO, is to admit that you can't even professionally review a speaker, since to do so would mean you have to have the perfect environment and setup for each speaker you review, instead of an ability to hear past certain room aspects to an inherent character underneath.

That being said, I'm satisfied with my subjective opinion based on the two different stores where I demoed the Revels. To be fair, a lot of people hate the speakers I love, so to each their own.

That being said, I'm satisfied with my subjective opinion based on the two different stores where I demoed the Revels. To be fair, a lot of people hate the speakers I love, so to each their own.

Certainly, to each their own. Personally, I prefer the Salon and Studio gen 1s to the 800s, 801s, 802s and even the newer "d" version of each. I also like the Ultimas more than the W/Ps, of which I have demoed the 6s, 7s and 8s. In both cases, I really wanted to like the B&Ws and the Wilsons, but I always came back to the Revels. Of course, their main problem was size (especially the original Salons) and sheer ugliness (my favorite look of pretty much every speaker out there is the B&W 800 series, old or current d models).

I am very eager to hear the new Salons and if they thrill me like the old models did, I'll finally take the Ultima plunge and buy a pair in black. I have heard the F52s, which use some of the same technology that the new Ultimas do and really liked them. I have also been a Performa owner since the original F30s came out and definitely like the Revel "house" sound. To my ear, no one makes a more pleasing speaker than Kevin and his team does. But again, that just my opinion.

Jeff

Jeff,
I audition new Salon2 in Top Audio Rome in March this year and I can tell you that IMHO new Salon2 is much, much better speaker then old Salon. Bass is(still) truly world class and this is one the few speakers in up to $50K range were you can feel(!) and hear pipe organ. It is more creamy in sound and it sounds almost spooky silent when you are listening between notes(silent passages in music)...
In fact I decided right now to order one.

Regarding looks and finish options... In person it looks pretty nice to my eyes(BTW, I did not like original Darth Vader Salon design to much) but, two finish options are well... NOT ENOUGH. Piano Black and High Gloss Mahogany... They could(or should!) add at least High Gloss Maple(or similar light wood) and Silver at least...

I'd love to hear these, but am I the only person who thinks that the orignal Ultima series looks much better?


I agree, i loved the way the old ones looked. Think these look a little more plain to me, but still nice.

I've heard they are Maxx2 competitors at a much lower price (the Salon2)

I'd love to hear these, but am I the only person who thinks that the orignal Ultima series looks much better?


Absolutely. I think it was a classic thats gone before its time, both visually and sonically.

I owned a pair of Studios for a couple of years... IMHO, they were among the best-value-for money high-end speakers around. Typically performing better driven hard and loud, but a well run-in pair doesn't take a lot to sound good. Took me a couple of years to find a better speaker that I felt was worth spending on!

I hate the look of the new Ultimas, I hope they actually sound better :)

I've heard they are Maxx2 competitors at a much lower price (the Salon2)

Goodness, I hope not ;)

http://www.avguide.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/kevin_voecks_pro_team.jpg

http://www.avguide.com/news/2007/06/29/the-years-most-eagerly-anticipated-product-introduction-revel-ultima-salon-2/

Is the second guy from the left Michael Grant ;)?

http://aycu33.webshots.com/image/21192/2004092333437177450_rs.jpg

Is the second guy from the left Michael Grant ;)?




Isn't that the designer - Kevin Voecks??

It is Kevin Voecks...

Is the second guy from the left Michael Grant ;)?

I think that might have flown a few miles over their heads. ;)

It is Kevin Voecks...

I recognized Kevin, can you tell us who the others are? Or is that a no no?

Honestly I can not tell who the other gents are... But, maybe you can help?

I'm really looking forward to hearing these; I've never honestly liked the sound of the B&Ws or Wilsons.

I liked the Ultima Salons and Studios, and so I'm intrigued by these.

I fall among the minority here, though, and have got to say I really preferred the look of the old Ultimas much more.

Sensitivity of only 86 dB though - ouch.

Anyone know what the list prices will be on the Studio2 and Voice2?

Anyone know what the list prices will be on the Studio2 and Voice2?
$16000 for the studio and $8000 for the voice plus an extra $1000 for the stand if you need it.I have ordered the Salon in mahogany finish and they sell for $22000

I never liked the Salons but the Studios sounded great. Esthetically speaking their new line is a disapointment to me. It is not original. They are made to fit in a home theater -several units. Their lack of originality reinforces B&W supremacy. Nautilus speakers were already trully original more than 10 years ago. Today like 10 years ago the B&W 802Ds and company are still the way to go. The SalonII and StudiosII will never become classics.

I never liked the Salons but the Studios sounded great. Esthetically speaking their new line is a disapointment to me. It is not original. They are made to fit in a home theater -several units. Their lack of originality reinforces B&W supremacy. Nautilus speakers were already trully original more than 10 years ago. Today like 10 years ago the B&W 802Ds and company are still the way to go. The SalonII and StudiosII will never become classics.
The great thing about the new Salon and Studio 2 is that one can use these very powerful speakers,because of their new shape,in a normal sized room,and I for one would never have bought those monsters that you consider so appealing,it all comes down to taste.One thing,I would wager that Revel will sell more Ultima speakers because of the change

I don't know about the new ones, but the old ones still look sweet. :D




http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j190/yarled2u/DSC00106.jpg

"Is the second guy from the left Michael Grant ?"

Yes, and the last man on the right is Cineramax....

"Is the second guy from the left Michael Grant ?"

Yes, and the last man on the right is Cineramax....

You mean Skinner Max?

They looked better and more modern that the Watt Puppies as a matter of fact -and they sounded better.

In your opinion....

"Is the second guy from the left Michael Grant ?"

Yes, and the last man on the right is Cineramax....

Don't know about Cineramax but the second guy on the left is Kevin Voecks Hubby met him a few weeks ago. :)

$16000 for the studio and $8000 for the voice plus an extra $1000 for the stand if you need it.I have ordered the Salon in mahogany finish and they sell for $22000

A bigger premium than I was hoping for compared to the Performa line, especially the Voice2 vs C52 ($8000 vs $2500).

Unless the dealer margin structure on the Ultima2 would allow for greater percentage discounts than on the Performa? Does anyone know?

A bigger premium than I was hoping for compared to the Performa line, especially the Voice2 vs C52 ($8000 vs $2500).

Unless the dealer margin structure on the Ultima2 would allow for greater percentage discounts than on the Performa? Does anyone know?
Dealer margins 40% on sales that is why you are seeing such big price cuts on audiogon

A bigger premium than I was hoping for compared to the Performa line, especially the Voice2 vs C52 ($8000 vs $2500).

Well, you have to consider that they're going for near perfection on these speakers. Yes, $8K is a lot, but then, if you really want a match in quality, it's what it would cost to market. For instance, most high-end mains have a center that is dramatically lower in quality than their flagship. I salute them for bother to make such a high-end center. If you can afford a whole Studio setup, I don't think an extra $5K for the center is that much in a $40K system.

Dealer margins 40% on sales that is why you are seeing such big price cuts on audiogon

My impression is that in the U.S., at least, dealer cost is 50% of list on the Performa line. I was hoping it might be even less than that for the Ultima2 line.

Well, you have to consider that they're going for near perfection on these speakers. Yes, $8K is a lot, but then, if you really want a match in quality, it's what it would cost to market. For instance, most high-end mains have a center that is dramatically lower in quality than their flagship. I salute them for bother to make such a high-end center. If you can afford a whole Studio setup, I don't think an extra $5K for the center is that much in a $40K system.

Yes, they are supposed to be cost no object speakers....both the Studio2 and Voice2. Both list for $8000 each. Both have the same drivers. But with the Studio2, you get twice as much cabinet. So why should the Voice2 cost the same as the bigger, weightier Voice2? At 8k, the Voice2 is a bit of a ripoff compared to the Studio2.

In the Performa line, the C52 costs much less than the F52. I'm saying it ought to be the same way with the Voice2 vs Studio2.

BTW my current thinking is that I'll economize on the rears and surrounds, so the speaker budget is going to be well under the 40k list you suggest.

Had a chance to extensively audition Ultima Salon2 in my system.

In short-excellent speaker and truly amazing value for the money. Better speaker then Ultima Salon2? There are few but they cost at least $65K and more...

Even some of these more expensive speakers are not that capable in several areas as Salon2 is IMHO. True reproduction of deep bass-very low distorsion, amazing tightness and depth(in my room -10db 16Hz!). Soundstage is very, very big as well although Avalon Isis offers little bit wider soundstage for example. Overall voicing of Salon2 is neutral as possible with just a hint of welcome warmth in midrange(depending on other components in the system)...

+excellent value for money-IMHO better speaker cost as least $65K
+best bass and dynamics in its size class
+new tweeter extended and smooth at the same time
+very good build quality
+moderately demanding on setup and room acoustics

-needs power! It killed well respected 100w Class A solid state amp... Minimum value is around 300W/8ohms IMO.
-do not like tube amps