So I helped my father in-law setup the Harmony 880 we got him as a gift. I can see why it's great for the non-geeks with it's activity based workflow. However, I found the activity workflow clumsy and remote fustratingly slow to switch activities and I'm not sure how well it would work with the multi-zone feature of my receiver which we use a lot (often with different inputs).

I did like the peanut shape of the 880 it reminded me a lot of the Tivo remote we have, but the layout wasn't nearly as nice as some features required multiple button presses.
It also didn't seem to be possible or clear to me that you could remap buttons if the Harmony gods had a different opinion of where things should go.

Obviously something easy to program will be nice, but I care more about day to day use and being able to hide all the other remotes. I don't need extenders right now, but having the option to use them in the future would be nice.

Hence, I'm looking for:
- Reasonably priced (say $300ish?)
- Supported via Mac (we have no Windows boxes) if programmed
- non-activity based UI
- Excellent usability for day to day activities (mostly Tivo)

Supporting:
Onkyo TX-SR803
Tivo Series3
Oppo 971H
Sony KDS-55A2000 TV

Hopefully that all made sense, thanks for helping!

-Aaron

- non-activity based UI

I'm not sure I understand this requirement. With any universal remote, don't you ultimately want it to be based on activities?

I have used a Pronto TSU-2000 for several years now, and I have it programmed based on the activities I want to perform. The home page has "Watch TV", "Watch DVD", "Play XBox" and so on icons on it. I press a button based on which activity I want, and the macro(s) fire to ensure all the devices are set up appropriately for that activity.

I guess since I don't currently have a universal remote, I don't think in terms of "activities" and I'm not sure how well the activities concept works when you want to do two different activities (watch Tivo in Zone 1 and listen to XM in Zone 2).

That and frankly, the 880 just seemed be so slow switching between activities and unflexible. Example, I never turn off my Tivo (since I use it as a clock), but the 880 turned it off (well suspended it) when watching DVD. Annoying.

Now maybe I can tell the 880 to not do that... I didn't play with it enough to find out. I didn't care for switching between the two tuners in the S3 was on the 2nd page of soft keys and I would want to remap them to something else. Is that possible?

Honestly, right now the universal remote which came with the Onkyo does just about everything I need, but the key layout sucks. I don't feel the need for macros just because I don't have that much equipment.

Thanks,
Aaron

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to sing the praises of one remote over another. I just truly didn't understand the requirement because it seems to me that the real power behind any universal remote is its ability to control your system in terms of the thing you want to do with the system right now.

I can't answer the dual zone question because, although my receiver supports three zones, I've never used that feature of it. Right now I can't figure out how you'd use a single remote to control both zones. Would the person in the other zone shout down, "Hey, will you turn up my volume please?"

As for the 880 comments:

slow - The Harmony database has delays built into it (presumably based on experience) to allow for device warm-up and how long after receiving one command it can process another. Those delays can be adjusted (e.g. it has a 12 second power on delay for my television) in the software. I actually have mine using all default settings right now, and find it to be quite fast once the TV (because it has the longest power-on delay) is powered up. I can switch from "Watch TV" to "Watch DVD" or "Play XBox" in a few seconds. Perhaps you have a device that has a long inter- or intra-command delay.

inflexible - Your specific example is something that is easily fixed. When I set up my 880 I seem to recall the initial setup asked if I turned off my DVR (Comcast). I answered "no" and it leaves the device on. You can adjust the behavior of the various devices in an activity through the software.

You have complete control of the layout of the softkeys. The Harmony software will generate a default set of softkeys based on the devices used in the activity, but you can move, add, and delete buttons quite easily.

Like I said, I really have no vested interest in what you end up buying. I just couldn't understand why you wouldn't ultimately want something that was based around activities (or whatever term you choose to use).

Hey Craig,

Thanks for the clarifications. Like I said, I've used the 880 only for a very short time and it sounds like some of the things I didn't like about it can be easily solved.

As for the dual zones, yeah, that's basically how it works now. "Hey honey, how's the volume over there?!" :) It's one reason why having an extender would be useful since I could then walk over to the other room and set the volume without having to walk back and forth.

The trick of course is having TWO "activities" active on the receiver and being able to switch between them on the remote without going through the on/off procedure. I wasn't very confident that the 880 was smart enough to actually handle that.

Anyways, maybe I'll pick up a 890 via Amazon and give it a try. I've always had good luck with returns there.

Thanks.

Thanks for the clarifications. Like I said, I've used the 880 only for a very short time and it sounds like some of the things I didn't like about it can be easily solved.
- Most of the issues that you are having problems with are very easily fixed. There's a sticky at the top of this forum detailing how to speed up your remote. The Harmony's can control the original device as fast or faster than the original remote. You just have to adjust the delays and repeats.

I never turn off my Tivo (since I use it as a clock), but the 880 turned it off (well suspended it) when watching DVD. Annoying.
- You can go into the actual Device and set it to stay on all of the time or you can set the Activity to leave all other devices on. I always let the Harmony put my HD-Tivo in standby. It still will record. Putting it in standby simply stops the audio and video output.

I guess since I don't currently have a universal remote, I don't think in terms of "activities" and I'm not sure how well the activities concept works when you want to do two different activities (watch Tivo in Zone 1 and listen to XM in Zone 2).
- You can send as many extra commands at the start and end of an Activity as you want.

Maybe look at the 890 Pro (not the standard 890) or the Monster brand remotes(based on Harmony). I think both of these allow for easy multi-zone control.

honestly I would look at a URC, Pronto or RTI controller over any harmony. More control, can be configured with better results especially when being used with multi zone applications.
This became so important at my company that we stopped selling the harmony product, and started to only use controllers made by companies that specialized in that category.
Well that and the pile of defunct harmonys that stopped working 2-3 months in 2 years ago. Bad batteries, bad charging units, and crap support from harmony in getting the units taken care of.

I gave up looking for a decent remote that I could program myself using my Mac. Too many headaches trying to figure out how it worked. I found an RTI dealer, who programmed the remote for me. Much easier, and it works.