What's up all,
JUST started looking into video processors a couple days ago when I read a thread in a different area (said they were running through a VP and it looked great).

I read the "Scalers: what are they and why do I need one" thread here and I like what I read.

But the problem is is that I really don't think I can pass a purchase of $3k past the wife just to make the pic on the TV look better...I would hear..."It looks fine, leave it alone" :-)

Otherwise, is there a good solution for under $1k or are those just all crap.

My set up is:
Samsung DLP (HL-S6188W)
Sony DVD (Component Output with optical)
360 (VGA output with optical)
PS3 (HDMI output with optical)...yeah yeah...just basically a Blue-ray player :-)
Wii (Component output with optical)
Verizon FIOS (HDMI output with coax optical)
Verizon FIOS CableCard (used for PiP)
Onkyo TX (I forget the actual product number) reciever (NO HDMI inputs or outputs)

Any recommendations for a new VP user?

Thanks very much in advance!

What image are you trying to improve? Most of the sources you have probably are high-def sources. The only ones that aren't are probably the wii and non-HD cable channels. If you watch a lot of non-HD channels, then this can help clean up the picture, but don't expect a VP to turn a normal signal into a HD signal.

Unless you watch a lot of non-HD sources I wouldn't recommend a VP. I would recommend you save your cash for a nice reciever which can upgrade all your inputs into LPCM 5.1 or 7.1 audio. Now that will make a difference. If you really want a VP, look into one of the upcoming Onkyo's AVR's with the Reon VP (875 and 905).

-Splints

Hey Splints,
Thanks for the info!!! I do watch a lot of non-HD channels (well my kid does), but actually that was my next question...After 2010(or so) aren't all channels supposed to be in hd anyways? So the VP wouldn't be nessesary? But again, I am new to the VPs...I don't want to offend anyone... :-)
I would like the non-HD channels to look better but if that is going to be the most impacted then, I can deal without a VP...i am not worried about the Wii...I have come to grips that it is just for fun and not for graphics :-)

As for your statement about the Onkyo recievers...I was in the market for one anyways (would like one with HDMI inputs, to be used as a switch). So you say the new versions already have a VP included? I assume it wouldn't have all the "bells and whistles" that the stand alone VPs do, but it could be worth it to me (being a newb and all).

Do you have any idea on the prices for those? Right now I have a 5.1 system, but have the room to put in a 7.1 if need be.

Thanks again!

I do watch a lot of non-HD channels (well my kid does), but actually that was my next question...After 2010(or so) aren't all channels supposed to be in hd anyways?No. Public broadcasters are required to go digital, but there is no requirement that they use HD.

That said, many new channels are launching in HD in the next 6-9 months, including CNN, SciFi, History, Disney, Toon Disney, ABC Family, FX, Cartoon Network, and USA Network, among others.

So the VP wouldn't be nessesary? But again, I am new to the VPs..A VP isn't necessary for devices with 1080p output, like Blu-ray players. However, video processing is required to display a high-definition 1080i television channel (CBS, NBC, HBO, Discovery, etc) on a 1080p display. All 1080p displays have such video processors built-in, although the built-in processors aren't usually very good, just like the built-in speakers aren't especially good.

As for your statement about the Onkyo recievers...I was in the market for one anyways (would like one with HDMI inputs, to be used as a switch). So you say the new versions already have a VP included? I assume it wouldn't have all the "bells and whistles" that the stand alone VPs do, but it could be worth it to me (being a newb and all).

Do you have any idea on the prices for those? Right now I have a 5.1 system, but have the room to put in a 7.1 if need be.The Onkyo 875 and 905 carry MSRPs of $1699 and $2099, respectively, although some retailers like J&R Music World are taking preorders at significantly less than that. Pricing discussion -- other than MSRP -- is not allowed on AVS, so you would need to call J&R for a quote. The 875 is supposed to ship in mid-July with the 905 to follow in August.

You can read more about them in the thread below:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=831063

Hey Splints,
Thanks for the info!!! I do watch a lot of non-HD channels (well my kid does), but actually that was my next question...After 2010(or so) aren't all channels supposed to be in hd anyways? So the VP wouldn't be nessesary? But again, I am new to the VPs...I don't want to offend anyone... :-)
I would like the non-HD channels to look better but if that is going to be the most impacted then, I can deal without a VP...i am not worried about the Wii...I have come to grips that it is just for fun and not for graphics :-)

As for your statement about the Onkyo recievers...I was in the market for one anyways (would like one with HDMI inputs, to be used as a switch). So you say the new versions already have a VP included? I assume it wouldn't have all the "bells and whistles" that the stand alone VPs do, but it could be worth it to me (being a newb and all).

Do you have any idea on the prices for those? Right now I have a 5.1 system, but have the room to put in a 7.1 if need be.

Thanks again!

hehe, so your going to pay 2-3k so you kid can watch cartoons more clearly?!? j/k Anyways, the 2010 requirement is for broadcast channels as I understand it. Most of the cable channels aren't under any such requirement and with cable companies, they don't want to switch 400 odd channels from SD to HD, the bandwidth will kill them. :)

Your non-HD channels will look better, but the one thing it can't add is details like the individual leaves on a tree in a landscape shot. If your see a lot of bluriness in action shots or jaggies on curved edges then you can improve those with a VP. After getting a VP50 I was impressed and a little surprised. You can see that they do a good job of cleaning up the picture, but the lack of additional details showed me that you can only do so much with a signal.

as for an integrated VP in an AVR vs. a standalone. You'll always get a lot more control and features in a VP that may not be available in an AVR, but you will have the convenience of having it all in one box (and one less remote!). The higher end AVR's have a VP included in them, but not all of the current AVR's have VP's. The new Onkyo's are among the 1st to include them. I believe MSRP is starting at $1700 and $2100 for the 875 and 905 respectively. Here's a link to the anticipation thread: Onkyo Anticipation Thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=831063)

I would say the combo one also allows you to get into VP without the high cost and simpler interface. It won't stand up to a VP in terms of processing, but if the gain between the two isn't all that big, it will save you some nice dollars and get you a lot closer to your goal.

-Splints

Thanks bfdtv and Splints!
A LOT of info :-)
Even the $1700 is going to a lot to get past the wife, when we already have a reciever...

bfdtv - So, since most HD channels are broadcast in 1080i, would it be worth getting the VP (or the Onkyo reciever with VP) to display those signals better on my TV (since it is 1080p)?

Splints - since I went to HDMI (after I got FIOS) I do notice the jaggies and bluriness (mostly when watching baseball) more than before. i thought it was the signal...But maybe they were always there I just didn't notice it when going through component cables?

Thanks again for the info...I will be building a list for reasons to get a new reciever with all of the info :-)

Thanks bfdtv and Splints!
A LOT of info :-)
Even the $1700 is going to a lot to get past the wife, when we already have a reciever...

bfdtv - So, since most HD channels are broadcast in 1080i, would it be worth getting the VP (or the Onkyo reciever with VP) to display those signals better on my TV (since it is 1080p)?

Splints - since I went to HDMI (after I got FIOS) I do notice the jaggies and bluriness (mostly when watching baseball) more than before. i thought it was the signal...But maybe they were always there I just didn't notice it when going through component cables?

Thanks again for the info...I will be building a list for reasons to get a new reciever with all of the info :-)

heh, sell the old receiver and buy the new one. Don't mention it to the wife unless she notices. :)

1080i to 1080p is something that you need to see to really get a feel for. HQV aka Silicon Optix has a great little tech FAQ. for 1080i->1080p look up the de-interlacing link below here (http://www.hqv.com/technology.cfm)

De-interlacing will also help with the jaggies you see in fast moving pictures. The other reason I really liked using a VP is for movies to be outputted in 24 fps to be user controlled as to how to convert to 60fps, typically referred to as 3:2 pulldown or cadence. There is also more info on that at the HQV site.

Good luck!

-Splints

Thanks bfdtv and Splints!
A LOT of info :-)
Even the $1700 is going to a lot to get past the wife, when we already have a reciever...

bfdtv - So, since most HD channels are broadcast in 1080i, would it be worth getting the VP (or the Onkyo reciever with VP) to display those signals better on my TV (since it is 1080p)?I think so.

The $1700 is MSRP. I believe the preorder pricing from several vendors is ~20% off MSRP, and greater discounts may be available if you wait a few more months.

Around this time next year, we may see comparable functionality in $1200 MSRP receivers.

Splints - since I went to HDMI (after I got FIOS) I do notice the jaggies and bluriness (mostly when watching baseball) more than before. i thought it was the signal...But maybe they were always there I just didn't notice it when going through component cables?You might want to take a look at the Silicon Optix document below. It has side-by-side comparisons of what properly deinterlaced and poorly deinterlaced images look like.

SD HQV Scoring Guide (http://www.hqv.com/contentEngine/dspDocumentDownload.cfm?PCVID=6557af58-7e90-e2a3-bea3-f6ec25bf8781)

The PDF above specifically addresses 480i deinterlace, but the same applies to 1080i channels.

heh, sell the old receiver and buy the new one. Don't mention it to the wife unless she notices. :)

1080i to 1080p is something that you need to see to really get a feel for. HQV aka Silicon Optix has a great little tech FAQ. for 1080i->1080p look up the de-interlacing link below here (http://www.hqv.com/technology.cfm)

De-interlacing will also help with the jaggies you see in fast moving pictures. The other reason I really liked using a VP is for movies to be outputted in 24 fps to be user controlled as to how to convert to 60fps, typically referred to as 3:2 pulldown or cadence. There is also more info on that at the HQV site.

Good luck!

-Splints

Would kinda be hard to get it past her, since she pays all of the bills :-) "What is this $1700 bill from CC"....ah ah ah...that's nothing :-)

But when they run the "0%" for a year, I can probably get around it :-) I was planning on selling the one that I have, but it probably wouldn't make a dent in the price of the new one :-)

So, does the new Onkyo Receiver with the VP have the "de-interlacing" that you are talking about? Or is that standard for VPs?

Thanks!

So, does the new Onkyo Receiver with the VP have the "de-interlacing" that you are talking about?It is uses a processor that offers that functionality:

Silicon Optix ReonVX (http://www.siliconoptix.com/contentEngine/dspDocumentDownload.cfm?PCVID=2d4893ca-f663-2e08-c62e-314dbfaf0518)

We are still waiting on reviews to see whether Onkyo properly implemented the technology. I would not recommend the purchase of any product until it is throughly reviewed and tested by forum members.

Actually I just talked to the wife this past weekend and a new reciever with the VP is "a go"...Just have to wait until after the summer (and it is not coming out until then anyways).

So I will wait to hear from this forum, whether or not it is good.