If you are format neutral and have the choice of getting the blu-ray or HD DVD version of a movie, which one do you choose? Personally, I find myself selecting the blu-ray version (on Netflix or at the store) even though I really like all of my HD DVD movies.

If you are format neutral and have the choice of getting the blu-ray or HD DVD version of a movie, which one do you choose? Personally, I find myself selecting the blu-ray version (on Netflix or at the store) even though I really like all of my HD DVD movies.

you're asking in the Blu-Ray forum. Most people here are Blu Ray supporters or lean Blu Ray if they are "dual format". For a less Biased answer I would post this in the HDTV Software media section.

For this thread to work, you will need to define 'format neutral'. Anyone who expresses much of a preference is strictly speaking 'not neutral'. For the sake of argument, I will assume 'neutral' mean 'forum posters who own players for both formats'.

In my case, I buy the dual format titles on BD because I believe it has the best chance of winning the format war, and as such there is a greater likelihood that I will be able to continue playing it five or ten years from now on whatever future hardware I purchase. Following this line of reasoning, it also increases the resale value of the movies if my tastes change and I decide to sell a few on ebay in a couple years.

BigAl:

Welcome to AVS. The best place for formart neutral discussion is the HDTV Media discussion forum....that's where threads looking at both sides of the format war belong.

Second, as you can imagine with over a year under our belt of having both formats, this topic has come up before (many times). Here's just two threads to get your started.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=783304

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=804984

There are many more. Use advance search, title search only limit search words to one or two and make sure to highlight the appropriate forum from the list to the right

Ron

For this thread to work, you will need to define 'format neutral'. Anyone who expresses much of a preference is strictly speaking 'not neutral'.

Agreed. AVS has a lot of dual format supporters but VERY FEW of them are actually format neutral. IMO if someone is truly format neutral and they're deciding between which version of a Paramount title to buy, for instance, they'll likely buy the one they can find for the lowest cost. Deciding on which version to buy for just about any other reason would indicate that the person is in fact not format neutral.

If it's available on both formats, I always get the BD version. I think they will eventually win out. I only buy Universal HD DVD movies.

If it's available on both formats, I always get the BD version. I think they will eventually win out. I only buy Universal HD DVD movies.
I'm opposite. If it's available on both formats, I buy the HD DVD version. Contrary to some, I actually like the combos. I've never had any problems with them, and I like the fact that I can play the DVD side on other players around the house and the car. I also think HD DVD will eventually become the dominant format for movies due to their inherently lower cost. I only buy Blu-ray for exclusive studios.

I get whatever version has any technical superiority in terms of audio and video encodes. If the audio/video quality is the same, then I get whatever version has more extras. If both versions have the same exact audio/video quality and number of extras, then I get the version that is lower in price. If both versions are exactly the same in every way, then I get the HD DVD version because I prefer watching my movies on a standalone player.

I have both...blu-ray for me. I'm still holding out on the Matrix to be released on Blu-Ray...i can wait for another 5 years.

I get whatever version has any technical superiority in terms of audio and video encodes. If the audio/video quality is the same, then I get whatever version has more extras. If both versions have the same exact audio/video quality and number of extras, then I get the version that is lower in price. If both versions are exactly the same in every way, then I get the HD DVD version because I prefer watching my movies on a standalone player.Exactly, same thing for me.

Being a format neutral fan I prefer the title that gives me better PQ and SQ for lesser bucks.
But at times I tend towards the HD DVD side because of overall PQ and True HD.

I concur 100%

Wouldn't matter what forum it's being asked in, my answer would be the same.

The only HD-DVD's I am buying right now are Uni catalog titles I want and any WB stuff that isn't out on BD. I still have more HD than BD at the moment since I was buying all neutral stuff on HD until the beginning of the year, but the gap is closing quickly.

And plus it just feels good to avoid the idiotic combo whenever possible.

If you are format neutral and have the choice of getting the blu-ray or HD DVD version of a movie, which one do you choose? Personally, I find myself selecting the blu-ray version (on Netflix or at the store) even though I really like all of my HD DVD movies.

I will go with the cheaper version. Usually this means Blu-Ray because of the stupid HD-DVD flipper disc(unless somebody has a screw up like Best Buy on the HD-DVD version of The Departed). With 300 I will go with the HD-DVD version and pay the extra because of the extra features thing that I want to check out. If both are priced the same I go with the HD-DVD version because they need all the help they can get right now.

I originally started as hddvd only, but then also picked up a BD player, so since about january, i buy everything on BD, except if its a HDdvd exclusive, or currently only on HDDVD.

I think the combo disk is a fantastic concept. What's wrong about it is they raise the price.

I'd like to be able to purchase, author and burn on combo media. When you hand a combo disk to someone, they look at it and say "I can play this on my DVD, but what am I missing on that other side?" <-- That's good for HD.

If your party disk is a combo, it's going to get played, and if it's played back in Hi-def, all the better.

I think it's blunderous to not be able to playback CDs on BD players as well.

If it's available on both formats, I always get the BD version. I think they will eventually win out. I only buy Universal HD DVD movies.

I do the above and also buy Weintstein movies and the exclusive Warner flicks (V for Vendetta, Willy Wonka, Batman Begins, Robin Hood, etc...) My collection right now is roughly 50-50, but over time I suspect it will lean more Blu Ray. That is NOT to say that HD DVD isn't great- it is and if in the end it's the only format standing, I'm cool with that.

Unless you like rebuying titles I would purchase Blu-Ray. Blu-Ray will have this format war in the bag by the middle of next year if not by year's end. Rather than have to replace HD-DVD titles with Blu-Ray titles later on, just buy Blu-Ray now.

If you want to buy software for the format that is going to have all studio support and will win the format war buy Blu-Ray. I seriously expect Universal will be releasing Blu-Ray titles in 2008. They have already investigated Blu-Ray manufacturing facilities.

I also think HD DVD will eventually become the dominant format for movies due to their inherently lower cost. .

Are you serious? :rolleyes:

Unless you like rebuying titles I would purchase Blu-Ray. Blu-Ray will have this format war in the bag by the middle of next year if not by year's end. Rather than have to replace HD-DVD titles with Blu-Ray titles later on, just buy Blu-Ray now.

If you want to buy software for the format that is going to have all studio support and will win the format war buy Blu-Ray. I seriously expect Universal will be releasing Blu-Ray titles in 2008. They have already investigated Blu-Ray manufacturing facilities.

Why in the world would you rebuy titles. I didn't realize my HD-DVDs and Blu-Rays had internal self destruct devices. You don't think some of the Blu only studios have looked into HD-DVD manufacturing?

Are you serious? :rolleyes:


The HD-DVD stand alones are selling better than the Blu-Ray stand alones. It could happen if HD-DVD wins the battle to the $200 price point.

Well i started with HD-DVD in October '06 with my HD-A1 player, and then i bought my PS3 in February '07. Right now the easy answer for me is HD-DVD because 1) my HDTV only does 1080i so 1080p no worry from HD-A1 player 2) no HDMI receiver to enjoy LPCM/TrueHD tracks on Blu-ray, but i can enjoy them with my analog connection from HD-A1 player


I guess i still do hope for HD-DVD to win but if it doesn't i'm set to go Blu-ray only as well in the future.

I get whatever version has any technical superiority in terms of audio and video encodes. If the audio/video quality is the same, then I get whatever version has more extras. If both versions have the same exact audio/video quality and number of extras, then I get the version that is lower in price. If both versions are exactly the same in every way, then I get the HD DVD version because I prefer watching my movies on a standalone player.

Nailed it. My only difference would be that occasionally I'll bypass the "extras" portion of the decisionmaking process and jump straight to price. I'm not that big on extras...

If it's available on both formats, I always get the BD version. I think they will eventually win out. I only buy Universal HD DVD movies.


I started out with a Toshiba HD A1 and was pretty happy overall. I was a staunch HD DVD supporter until the Blu-ray camp got its act together and I accepted the reality of the stuation. I had previously hoped that studios would begin producing for both formats. However, at this point, there is little to no hope that Sony, MGM, Fox, Disney, Lionsgate or Starz Entertainment (Anchor Bay) are gonna go neutral. There is only one studio exclusive to HD DVD and that is Universal. I recently decided to sell off my HD DVDs and patiently wait for what I believe is their inevitable move to neutrality.

When you put all the recent events together you would have to be a poor deluded soul not to accept what is unfolding. The manufacturers and studios have picked their sides and soon retailers will follow. My decision to just stop buying HD DVDs is partly based on the fact that I know I will want to re-purchase those titles when they make their Blu-ray appearance. Recently, Universal has been releasing catalog titles that show little improvement over their DVD counterparts. So, I have to ask the question "What am I missing?" Finally, Universal's new releases are generallly combos and for whatever reason, I dislike them.

I do not see or hear any discernable difference in the video or audio between Blu-ray and HD DVD and I am convinced that Blu-ray has already won the war. HD DVD does not have to go away entirely for this fact to be apparent. In my opinion, the 4th quarter will pretty much seal the deal.

I get whatever version has any technical superiority in terms of audio and video encodes. If the audio/video quality is the same, then I get whatever version has more extras. If both versions have the same exact audio/video quality and number of extras, then I get the version that is lower in price. If both versions are exactly the same in every way, then I get the HD DVD version because I prefer watching my movies on a standalone player.

+1

Here's how I decide:

1a. Which format is getting lossless audio?
1b. Which is cheaper?

Usually so far it's been BR.

Unless you like rebuying titles I would purchase Blu-Ray.

I don't think anyone will be rebuying anything, at least not for a long time. I personally know guys that jumped off the sidelines for the $199 Crutchfield deal that have no plans on replacing their DVDs and with the few exceptions "NetFlix" all of their movies.

That last price drop allowed me to put HD-DVD in every room where I have an HDTV (3) so at the moment I would say I lean towards HD-DVD due to fact that I don't have a Blu-Ray player in the bedroom. I do have the BD-P1000 in the main theatre and the PS3 in the game room.

If one version is better than the other, I'll get whichever one that is. If both are equal I default to Blu-ray.

Blu-ray, easily.

I agree most of the "format nuetral" folks are usually anything but.

I ran a poll in the HD Section and asked which format do you *WANT* to win, and the HDDVD crowd won that poll 2 or 3 to 1, so you will find HDDVD fans tend to read and post alot here at AVS (not that BD does not have its strong fans around here as well).


I'm neutral in that I own both but I do prefer HD-DVD because of the selection of movies right now.

Why in the world would you rebuy titles. I didn't realize my HD-DVDs and Blu-Rays had internal self destruct devices. You don't think some of the Blu only studios have looked into HD-DVD manufacturing?

How many people want two hi-def machines hooked up to their tv's??????????

Most people are challenged by hooking up one and getting it to work.

Common sense says people want one machine. That one machine better be able to play all movies. That will be Blu-Ray.

I don't think anyone will be rebuying anything, at least not for a long time.

I respecfully disagree. Read the posts on this board. Some people are already selling of their HD-DVD collection. For those that don't want two machines hooked up to every tv it makes sense to buy on a single format. The format with all studio support. That will be Blu-Ray. Universal will stop being the final hold out in 2008. They aren't that stupid.

Why in the world would you rebuy titles. I didn't realize my HD-DVDs and Blu-Rays had internal self destruct devices. You don't think some of the Blu only studios have looked into HD-DVD manufacturing?

Exactly!! great post!

This is like the 10th time I have seen posts by rabid BD fans that you should not get titles on HDDVD because you have to re buy them later on Blu. That has to be the dumbest thing I have seen in a long time. I have both formats, so if BD wins, somehow my HDDVD self destructs? LOL

I respecfully disagree. Read the posts on this board. Some people are already selling of their HD-DVD collection. For those that don't want two machines hooked up to every tv it makes sense to buy on a single format. The format with all studio support. That will be Blu-Ray. Universal will stop being the final hold out in 2008. They aren't that stupid.

While some people might do this they are in the small minority. Even most of the Blu-Leaning people I know aren't going to sell off HD-DVD's at a loss and are looking at the Combo players in the future if they are short on space. Since a vast majority are using a PS3 for Blu-Rays it is quite common to have a separate DVD player along with a console for the WAF. In fact I am pretty sure I can count on 1 hand the members on this site that sold off their HD-DVDs and did "not" buy back into HD-DVD recently either for the AX2 or the A2 sale...

Exactly!! great post!

This is like the 10th time I have seen posts by rabid BD fans that you should not get titles on HDDVD because you have to re buy them later on Blu. That has to be the dumbest thing I have seen in a long time. I have both formats, so if BD wins, somehow my HDDVD self destructs? LOL

People with common sense will buy titles on the format that has a future. People with an axe to grind will stubbornly buy titles on the losing format while throwing stones at those that exercise common sense.

HD-DVD is already on life support. Toshiba is practically giving their machines away to stay alive. That isn't enticing to other hardward manufacturers and it certainly isn't going to sway movie studios to switch from Blu-Ray. HD-DVD is all but dead. There are those that have faced that fact and there are those that bury their head in the sand.

Isn't it difficult to laugh with sand in your mouth?

um, HD-DVD is dominant in Europe. It's hardly on life support.

It seems all too common that Americans think they are the only people on earth. And until one format approaces 5% of the market, they've hardly "won" anything. Yea, BD now is "winning" but the overall market is negligible.

I'm format neutral, too (XA2 and PS3), and I prefer HD-DVD if all else is equal (price, features, picture, sound). It is way more consumer friendly and that's why I favor it. IMO, it's bad news when a studio controls the distribution medium.

In fact I am pretty sure I can count on 1 hand the members on this site that sold off their HD-DVDs and did "not" buy back into HD-DVD recently either for the AX2 or the A2 sale...

There is only two reasons to buy into HD-DVD:
1)You think Universal will never release Blu-Ray titles.
2)You can only afford HD-DVD machines

Universal will release Blu-Ray titles.

And as for pricing, Toshiba was losing money prior to the last price drop. They are so desperate to survive that they are now losing even more money. No company can keep selling at a loss and survive. There is no incentive for other hardware manufacturers. HD-DVD is dying on the vine.

People with common sense will buy titles on the format that has a future. People with an axe to grind will stubbornly buy titles on the losing format while throwing stones at those that exercise common sense.

HD-DVD is already on life support. Toshiba is practically giving their machines away to stay alive. That isn't enticing to other hardward manufacturers and it certainly isn't going to sway movie studios to switch from Blu-Ray. HD-DVD is all but dead. There are those that have faced that fact and there are those that bury their head in the sand.

Isn't it difficult to laugh with sand in your mouth?

Well the snide meter went off the charts. But of course snide one liners do nothing for a debate, and serve only to make you look silly.

Anyway, as an owner of both, it makes no sense for me to wait and see if Universal goes neutral. I buy the movies NOW, to enjoy them NOW. If you have no Hi Def player, and your arguement is to buy a BD player, fine that arguement is more credible. But suggesting dual format owners are going to have to re buy Universal titles? Why on earth would I need to buy them again? Look at what your writing, its completely absurd. There is not going to be a SINGLE person on this forum that is going to re buy a title in this manner. Waste of $.

That has to be the dumbest thing I have seen in a long time. I have both formats, so if BD wins, somehow my HDDVD self destructs? LOL


Snide? How about hypocritical?

Snide? How about hypocritical?

Argue the point not the person.

Post when you make sense please.

Why on earth would I need to buy them again? Look at what your writing, its completely absurd. There is not going to be a SINGLE person on this forum that is going to re buy a title in this manner. Waste of $.

Again, read the posts on this very thread. There are already people doing exactly what you say no one will. They are selling their Uni titles in anticipation of Blu-Ray release. It stands to reason that they will get the most for those titles now before Universal releases on Blu-Ray. Again, common sense.

People do not want two formats or two machines. They want it simple like DVD. Go buy a movie and play in my machine.

Retailers have limited space. Do you really think they like stocking the same title twice for 2 different formats? One format will win and it is not going to be HD-DVD. So choosing to buy titles on Blu-Ray is the smart choice.

Again, read the posts on this very thread. There are already people doing exactly what you say no one will. They are selling their Uni titles in anticipation of Blu-Ray release. It stands to reason that they will get the most for those titles now before Universal releases on Blu-Ray. Again, common sense.

People do not want two formats or two machines. They want it simple like DVD. Go buy a movie and play in my machine.

Retailers have limited space. Do you really think they like stocking the same title twice for 2 different formats? One format will win and it is not going to be HD-DVD. So choosing to buy titles on Blu-Ray is the smart choice.

Yes please, point out 10 people that are doing this very thing :rolleyes: If they are, kudos to them for wasting a ton of $ for no reason.

Dont forget these little points

1.IF Universal goes neutral.

2.If they do, would be sometime before they are able to crank out titles on Blu

The investment in my HDDVD player was not all that much, so if BD wins it, I can still play my movies.

Everyones right, it is about content, and I can watch every movie currently out on Hi Def NOW, can you?

I am without a doubt, format neutral. However if given a choice, I usually buy the Blue Ray disc. Mainly because I have the LG multi-format player which is basically a BD player, that also plays HD-DVD's.

There is only two reasons to buy into HD-DVD:
1)You think Universal will never release Blu-Ray titles.
2)You can only afford HD-DVD machines

Universal will release Blu-Ray titles.

And as for pricing, Toshiba was losing money prior to the last price drop. They are so desperate to survive that they are now losing even more money. No company can keep selling at a loss and survive. There is no incentive for other hardware manufacturers. HD-DVD is dying on the vine.

Please share the source the Toshiba is losing money on the A2 and not the old "independent" study on the parts of the A1.

As far as being able to "afford" blu-ray I hope you are not directing this at me. I have 2 home theaters in my home and 5 HDTVs. The "Game" room has a 50" Pioneer Elite Plasma, 7.1 Polk in-ceiling speakers, Denon AVR-987, PS3, HD-D2, HR10-250. The main theater room has 65" Toshiba CRT RPTV (on the upgrade list this year), HD-A2, BD-P1000, 360, Wii, Pioneer Elite VSX-82TSX, 5.1 Definitive Mythos 8's HR10-250. All WAF certified!!!

I have no interest in "waiting" around for HD Content in any form and buy what I want when I want it. HD-DVD came out with a bang and got my money.. Blu-Ray didn't catch up till November as far as I am concerned so thats when I bought into it.

Welcome to Ignore.....

Please share the source the Toshiba is losing money on the A2 and not the old "independent" study on the parts of the A1.

As far as being able to "afford" blu-ray I hope you are not directing this at me. I have 2 home theaters in my home and 5 HDTVs. The "Game" room has a 50" Pioneer Elite Plasma, 7.1 Polk in-ceiling speakers, Denon AVR-987, PS3, HD-D2, HR10-250. The main theater room has 65" Toshiba CRT RPTV (on the upgrade list this year), HD-A2, BD-P1000, 360, Wii, Pioneer Elite VSX-82TSX, 5.1 Definitive Mythos 8's HR10-250. All WAF certified!!!

I have no interest in "waiting" around for HD Content in any form and buy what I want when I want it. HD-DVD came out with a bang and got my money.. Blu-Ray didn't catch up till November as far as I am concerned so thats when I bought into it.

Welcome to Ignore.....

Can I come live with you? :D

Yes please, point out 10 people that are doing this very thing :rolleyes: If they are, kudos to them for wasting a ton of $ for no reason.


Now you have gone from no one to 10. I never said 10 people were doing that.


Dont forget these little points

1.IF Universal goes neutral.

I have no doubt that they will.


2.If they do, would be sometime before they are able to crank out titles on Blu


That's assuming they are not already prepping titles for the format.


The investment in my HDDVD player was not all that much, so if BD wins it, I can still play my movies.


You're an early adopter, not Joe Public waiting for a winner.


Everyones right, it is about content, and I can watch every movie currently out on Hi Def NOW, can you?

Why yes, I can. On my Panasonic DMP-BD10 Blu-Ray player and my Toshiba XA1.

As far as being able to "afford" blu-ray I hope you are not directing this at me. I have 2 home theaters in my home and 5 HDTVs. The "Game" room has a 50" Pioneer Elite Plasma, 7.1 Polk in-ceiling speakers, Denon AVR-987, PS3, HD-D2, HR10-250. The main theater room has 65" Toshiba CRT RPTV (on the upgrade list this year), HD-A2, BD-P1000, 360, Wii, Pioneer Elite VSX-82TSX, 5.1 Definitive Mythos 8's HR10-250. All WAF certified!!!

I have no interest in "waiting" around for HD Content in any form and buy what I want when I want it. HD-DVD came out with a bang and got my money.. Blu-Ray didn't catch up till November as far as I am concerned so thats when I bought into it.

Welcome to Ignore.....

Do a search on these forums and one of the biggest arguments HD-DVD fan boys make is that they cannot afford a Blu-Ray players. I didn't pull that out of thin air. I didn't say you in particular.

Now you have gone from no one to 10. I never said 10 people were doing that..

Exactly! You made it sound like a bunch of people were doing it to support your arguement. A few people doing it supports NO argument.



I have no doubt that they will..

We will agree to disagree



That's assuming they are not already prepping titles for the format

Assuming gets people into a lot of trouble, including you.





Why yes, I can. On my Panasonic DMP-BD10 Blu-Ray player and my Toshiba XA1.

Well lets see, your waiting for Universal to make Blu, so you must not use your Toshiba much. Can I have your stuff? :D

Exactly! You made it sound like a bunch of people were doing it to support your arguement. A few people doing it supports NO argument.

Dude, you are the one who said what I was writing was ludicrous and not a SINGLE person would do that. You are the one changing your argument not me.





We will agree to disagree


We'll see in '08 so we won't have too much longer to disagree.




Assuming gets people into a lot of trouble, including you.


True but logic and familiarity with business and accounting are helpful tools though.


Well lets see, your waiting for Universal to make Blu, so you must not use your Toshiba much. Can I have your stuff? :D

Hmmm. Let me think about that. What if I sold you all of my HD-DVD titles and threw in the Toshiba for free?

I also think HD DVD will eventually become the dominant format for movies due to their inherently lower cost. .


Are you serious? :rolleyes:


I think there is every possibility that Blu-ray might end up not being an economically sustainable proposition- regardless of what happens to HD DVD. Sony will absorb the costs associated for quite a while, but they can't do it indefintiely. HD DVD looks to be in a much better position to not only ride out a slow adoption, but to be able to efficently scale to mass adoption.
I know for some people they look at nothing but current events which tell them that Bd is outselling HD DVD 2 to 1...but there is much more to this than one data point.

anyway to get back on track and answer the original question-
I'm currently enjoying using the Sony BDP-300 much more than I am the A1. And I use the Sony for sd even though the A1 has the better pq- but when I make purchases, I'lll be getting the HD DVD version. Part of the reason is I just like supporting the underdog, but part of it is because I do believe what I wrote above. I think HD DVD will be around for a while...and if it isn't, then I want a large enough collection of good stuff to justify keeping another player in the rack.

Hmmm. Let me think about that. What if I sold you all of my HD-DVD titles and threw in the Toshiba for free?

Its a dead format remember? I should be getting cut rate prices on your discs :D

um, HD-DVD is dominant in Europe. It's hardly on life support.

It seems all too common that Americans think they are the only people on earth. And until one format approaces 5% of the market, they've hardly "won" anything. Yea, BD now is "winning" but the overall market is negligible.

I'm format neutral, too (XA2 and PS3), and I prefer HD-DVD if all else is equal (price, features, picture, sound). It is way more consumer friendly and that's why I favor it. IMO, it's bad news when a studio controls the distribution medium.
I think you should do some research.

The US is HD DVD best market so far. Check out eproductwars.com and see how HD DVD is doing in the UK and Germany. Since the introduction of the PS3, HD DVD is taking it on the chin in Europe, just like it did in the states when the PS3 was introduced.

Take this plus the fact that HD DVD is almost non-existant in Japan and Australia, and while the picture for HD DVD is bleak in the US, it is even worse when the rest of the world is added in.

Its a dead format remember? I should be getting cut rate prices on your discs :D

Well there is one sure way to find out the market value. Ebay.

Cheers and enjoy your movies :)

Screw all of you. I'm sticking with VHS baby.

Doesn't really matter to me which format the movie is on -- BD or HD -- just as long as it's something I want to watch and I can get it to play all the way through without having to wash it, cook it, sing to it and sacrifice an ugly virgin to the HD gods. And I generally now avoid combo discs (been burnt a few times with those) unless that's the only format available (Hot Fuzz on preorder is a combo disc).

Neither because the non exclusive studios don't have lossless sound. No lossless sound - no purchase.

There is only two reasons to buy into HD-DVD:
1)You think Universal will never release Blu-Ray titles.
2)You can only afford HD-DVD machines

Universal will release Blu-Ray titles.

And as for pricing, Toshiba was losing money prior to the last price drop. They are so desperate to survive that they are now losing even more money. No company can keep selling at a loss and survive. There is no incentive for other hardware manufacturers. HD-DVD is dying on the vine.

How about the third reason.
3. HD-DVD looks just as good as Blu-Ray and cost less.

As for selling things at a loss and surviving just look at Microsoft and Sony for examples of doing just that.

HD-DVD is already on life support. Toshiba is practically giving their machines away to stay alive.

I didn't realize that Sony was suddenly making money now on its sales of PS3 units.......WOW, they must have cut production costs by like 90% then, right??

Good grief.

How about the third reason.
3. HD-DVD looks just as good as Blu-Ray and cost less.

As for selling things at a loss and surviving just look at Microsoft and Sony for examples of doing just that.

Enjoy those movies from Sony, MGM, Fox, Disney, Lionsgate and Anchor Bay

Oh wait....you can't.

Cheap doesn't mean a thing without content.

HD-DVD is already on life support. Toshiba is practically giving their machines away to stay alive.

I didn't realize that Sony was suddenly making money now on its sales of PS3 units.......WOW, they must have cut production costs by like 90% then, right??

Good grief.

Sony is not the only manufacturer of Blu-Ray players.

But Toshiba is alone and is solely repsonsible for HD-DVD surviving.

If both titles are 100% the same then I go for the BD version.

WB HD DVD combos that are also available on BD = BD version (except for 300 because I have try the new interactive features out).

non-combos with PiP = HD DVD

I am not choosing a format. I am choosing HD... ;)

I do look for Dolby TrueHd now when I am deciding between which format to buy. Price only comes into effect if they both have the same audio... :)

I get whatever version has any technical superiority in terms of audio and video encodes. If the audio/video quality is the same, then I get whatever version has more extras. If both versions have the same exact audio/video quality and number of extras, then I get the version that is lower in price. If both versions are exactly the same in every way, then I get the HD DVD version because I prefer watching my movies on a standalone player.



....this is exactly my thoughts. I love my A2 & PS3! :D

Being a format neutral fan I prefer the title that gives me better PQ and SQ for lesser bucks.
But at times I tend towards the HD DVD side because of overall PQ and True HD.

ditto..

If you are format neutral and have the choice of getting the blu-ray or HD DVD version of a movie, which one do you choose? Personally, I find myself selecting the blu-ray version (on Netflix or at the store) even though I really like all of my HD DVD movies.

Sigh. This is so difficult for me...I still lean toward HD DVD and will buy them if available on both formats. At the same time, I'm waiting for that decision to bite me in the arse -- but not because of a dying format or anything like that. I'm worried about buggy releases more than anything, and BD has been rock solid for me in terms of playback flawlessness.

Enjoy those movies from Sony, MGM, Fox, Disney, Lionsgate and Anchor Bay

Oh wait....you can't.

Cheap doesn't mean a thing without content.

Funny, I can get Mr and Mrs Smith for HD DVD today, can you do the same from Fox? I own Underworld Evolution on HD DVD which is much better quality than the Sony Release. The beauty of HD DVD is that it's region free which opens up these exclusive blu-ray title to the HD DVD owners albeit at a higher price.

Either way, HD DVD and Blu-Ray will still be here for the next few years, and with the extra features that HD DVD has been including in their releases such as IME and Lossless or Higher Bitrate sound, it's a no brainer I pick up HD DVD titles when available on both formats. Add to that that the majority of the movies on Blu-Ray at the moment are pop corn flicks or slashers and most of the releases are recent releases, while HD DVD has some a much wider variety and a much more varied selection from old classics to new movies.

All other things about a release being equal the audio options are the deciding factor in my purchase decision. Honestly the extras and IME and BDJ mean relatively little to me. I want as much disk space dedicated to the audio and video bit rate as possible. I did opt for the BD version of "300" due to cost, however.

Back before they were actually released, I thought BD seemed 100% better based on the technical specifications.

Now I own both, and actively purchase titles in both, but will buy HD DVD if the content is otherwise the same.

HD DVD's implementation for movies just seems so much nicer. From the menus, to the extras (which are fantastic), to native suport for lossless compression, they just seemed to have their act together from the get go. Great, well authored releases right from start.

I still love the idea of BD's higher capacity, bandwidth, and especially their scratch resistance, but IMO HD DVD has had the best overall performance & has the most merit.

I *do* think it far more likely that BD wins (assuming they don't co-exist). Until that becomes inevitable though - I'll keep on buying HD DVD over BD. I'm going to keep supporting the side I think deserves it... even if the deck is looking stacked against them.

If you are format neutral and have the choice of getting the blu-ray or HD DVD version of a movie, which one do you choose? Personally, I find myself selecting the blu-ray version (on Netflix or at the store) even though I really like all of my HD DVD movies.
For me it would be the HD-DVD version.

People with common sense will buy titles on the format that has a future. People with an axe to grind will stubbornly buy titles on the losing format while throwing stones at those that exercise common sense.

HD-DVD is already on life support. Toshiba is practically giving their machines away to stay alive. That isn't enticing to other hardward manufacturers and it certainly isn't going to sway movie studios to switch from Blu-Ray. HD-DVD is all but dead. There are those that have faced that fact and there are those that bury their head in the sand.

Isn't it difficult to laugh with sand in your mouth?

You're funny!

HDDVD is far from on life support, that is unless you think all Hi Def DVDs are on life support. Sales on both sides are absolutely pathetic.

But as a retired salesman, not an order taker, if I was in the business today of selling mid to hi end Audio/Video, HDDVD would be a much easier sell and the client would be getting better value.

But the real issue isn't BD vs HDDVD, it's either against DVD with upscaling players. Frankly if someone would come out with just a couple of things for DVD, this war would probably die with both formats. What are those things?

1. Studio put better audio like TrueHD or some such on DVDs
2. MFGs put decoders in their upscaling players.

Both could be done cheaper than producing current BD or HDDVD players and I suspect that the studios could put better audio on for practically no increase in cost. Hell some dvds have DTS-ES 6.1 Discrete now.

And I say all that as an owner of both a BD and HDDVD player.

How many people want two hi-def machines hooked up to their tv's??????????

Most people are challenged by hooking up one and getting it to work.

Common sense says people want one machine. That one machine better be able to play all movies. That will be Blu-Ray.


MOST PEOPLE, YES. but you're on avs forum a hardcore ht site and the people here are not most people, thus for the people reading this you're wrong.

How many people want two hi-def machines hooked up to their tv's??????????

Most people are challenged by hooking up one and getting it to work.

Common sense says people want one machine. That one machine better be able to play all movies. That will be Blu-Ray.

Dude just hook it up the same way you did your blu ray player. Geeez

How many people want two hi-def machines hooked up to their tv's??????????

Most people are challenged by hooking up one and getting it to work.

Common sense says people want one machine. That one machine better be able to play all movies. That will be Blu-Ray.


I bought an HD-A1 and PS3 at the beginning of the year since it actually cost a little less than the then new LG combo player. If one machine breaks I will still have the other working machine. If one format becomes dominant I will upgrade it to a 3rd+ generation player and keep my first generation player for the other format. It really isn't hard to plug in multiple HDMI devices if you have enough inputs, I just wish my auto detect on my DVDO worked. Back in the SD days (last year) I eventually had four standard definition DVD players hooked up, which I'm sure isn't unusual for forum members here.

I'm leaning towards Blu at the moment since the recent news seem to favor it a bit for now. However I am looking forward to Universal's Shaun of the Dead, Hot Fuzz, and Heroes this summer and eventually Battlestar Galacrtica and will also buy Warner titles on HD_DVD instead of waiting until October for a Blu-Ray release. I wish there was a good site which compared both versions PQ andAQ side by side. For now I buy the cheaper version of the two since most HD/Blu discs have comparable quality and I'm not a big fan of extras. This is why I voted combo HD/SD DVD discs are a bad idea.

If you are format neutral and have the choice of getting the blu-ray or HD DVD version of a movie, which one do you choose? Personally, I find myself selecting the blu-ray version (on Netflix or at the store) even though I really like all of my HD DVD movies.
I tell my customers to get the Blu-Ray version if PQ/AQ is equal. The special coating on Blu-Ray discs makes them near impervious to scratches.

I tell my customers to get the Blu-Ray version if PQ/AQ is equal. The special coating on Blu-Ray discs makes them near impervious to scratches.

I notice that when I take a Bd out of its case, the disc edge has a very pleasing, glossy smoothness to it, unlike the average DVD or HD DVD, which can feel slightly gummy or sticky, or gritty. The edge smoothness gives the impression of the Bd being a much more refined product.
However-
I expect that is the result of the hardcoat, which I expect adds some cost to each disc.
It does seem to do its job, but I can't help but wonder why, if this is such a fantastic development, it isn't being used on DVDs destined for the rental markets?
This is one more aspect to Bds that gives me the impression that the format is going to have a hard time justifying itself economically in the long run...after Sony stops footing the bills- which is what would happen should HD DVD suddenly go away.


Thank God that isn't going to happen anytime soon.

Enjoy those movies from Sony, MGM, Fox, Disney, Lionsgate and Anchor Bay

Oh wait....you can't.

Cheap doesn't mean a thing without content.


Oh wait.... yes I can. I own both and love both! The sales numbers for stand alone HD-DVD players tell a different story.

I am not choosing a format. I am choosing HD... ;)

Ding, ding, ding, ding! You are correct sir!

...This is so difficult for me... I'm worried about buggy (HD DVD)releases more than anything, and BD has been rock solid for me in terms of playback flawlessness.

Yes, although I experienced very few problems with my HD A1, they were nevertheless a bit distracting. It was more along the lines of momentary freezing or the disc appeared to skip. I have yet (knock on wood) to see any of those glitches (knock on wood) plaguing my PS3 or Blu-ray discs. I even like how easy the firmware updates can be made. Generally, I have to admit to being more content with my Blu-ray experiences since diving in to high definition last year. That is one of the many reasons I went from neutral to Blu.

For discs that are released on both formats I'll look at what the features and price on each version and base my decision on that. If a disc is released on one format and it will be a while before it is released on the other format, depending on how much I want the movie I'll buy the format that is released first.

I get whatever version has any technical superiority in terms of audio and video encodes. If the audio/video quality is the same, then I get whatever version has more extras. If both versions have the same exact audio/video quality and number of extras, then I get the version that is lower in price. If both versions are exactly the same in every way, then I get the HD DVD version because I prefer watching my movies on a standalone player.I hear ya...I feel the exact same way! ;)

Well there is one sure way to find out the market value. Ebay.


Yes, it is. That's how & why I was able to get a 20GB PS3 new in box for just over $400 to add to my XA1 and enjoy high def titles regardless of studio affiliation / politics.

As to OP, I only buy BD exclusives to feed the PS3, everything else I enjoy on my XA1. And thanks to the DVD Forum for actually finalizing a product before putting it out on the market, I was enjoy the newest level of interactivity - the web enabled features on Blood Diamond - with my 'ancient' XA1 (February '06 build date).

Unfortunately, when BD titles come out designed for BD 1.1, my PS3 won't be able to do the same. :mad:

I buy exclusively on Blu Ray except for Universal titles that I would like to have. I didn't even buy the Matrix as I am waiting for the Blu Ray version.

I have two Blu ray players (Samsung 1200 and PS3) and only one 1st gen HD DVD player. I can see me buying more Blu ray players and never buying another HD DVD machine.

BR will eventually win out, i don't care really, just waiting for market to choose a winner.

I have both. Toash XA2, Pio BD-P94HD...

I go first by PQ/AQ reviews...
Next is features...
and 3rd for me is if it is a HD DVD combo disc.

I don't mind the combos as my parents, fiances parents and some sibblings can watch the SD side if they want to borrow it. I also can copy the SD side to my media center PC.

If all those things are equall, I then go by price and release date...

-Evangelo2

Well obviously if there is a Universal title I want, I have to get the HD-DVD version, but otherwise I choose BR for the most part. My A1 has locked and froze up quite a few times now mainly on rented discs (even after cleaning) and even on some brand new discs. Every time I throw a disc in I always wonder if it will play all the way through without issue. My PS3 has never had ANY of these issues with rented or new discs. I think BR tech is much more solid in this area and is why I will usually choose BR if possible. I dont know if this issue is the first gen A1 I have, or if the HD-DVD discs are just really sensitive, but it sucks having these issues in the middle of the film and can completely take you out of the experience :mad:

You're funny!
But as a retired salesman, not an order taker, if I was in the business today of selling mid to hi end Audio/Video, HDDVD would be a much easier sell and the client would be getting better value.


A better value???? Why because the HD DVD player is cheaper? People want to watch movies from ALL studios, not a few studios.

HD DVD studio support: 40%
Blu Ray studio support: 80%

And that is not even a weighted average based on the amount of content a studio has to offer.

What kind of salesman would suggest people invest in a player with 40% studio support?

Dude just hook it up the same way you did your blu ray player. Geeez

Dude, I'm talking about people wanting to get into hi-def, not early adopters such as us. I know how to hook up multiple players.

Joe Public does not want multiple machines and there is one format that offers the most movie choices from the most studios. That is Blu-Ray. Period. HD-DVD failed to gain additional studio support and will fade away. Period.

People need to relax. I give this thread about 2 more pages tops before the mods lock it from all the sniping left and right.

What kind of salesman would suggest people invest in a player with 40% studio support?
A good salesman shouldn't suggest anything. He should put the cards on the table and let the person make up their mind on an informed decision. If a salesman influences someone to buy one over the other then his own bias is coming into play and shouldn't.

Customers that buy based on their own merit and not salesman mumbo jumbo will be customers of that good salesman for a long long long time and they are less likely to return the item.

rwduke: The general public does not want two HD players I agree with you there.. Most people on here just want good HD, and both provide that... I think the whole format neutral thing is getting pretty lame, sooner or later there will be a choice. People talk about Sony greed etc.. who do you think has been getting most of the royalties on DVD.... Toshiba.... Studio support might finally win one format over another, I still think this is going to get ugly before it gets better..

Yes, although I experienced very few problems with my HD A1, they were nevertheless a bit distracting. It was more along the lines of momentary freezing or the disc appeared to skip. I have yet (knock on wood) to see any of those glitches (knock on wood) plaguing my PS3 or Blu-ray discs. I even like how easy the firmware updates can be made. Generally, I have to admit to being more content with my Blu-ray experiences since diving in to high definition last year. That is one of the many reasons I went from neutral to Blu.

I had a annoying glitch for a while with my PS3 where all my Blu-Rays would freeze for about ten seconds every few minutes. This was corrected with a firmware update but it was annoying for a couple of months. You could turn off the wireless internet connection but this got old having to turn this off everytime I wanted to watch a movie.

Sony is not the only manufacturer of Blu-Ray players.

But Toshiba is alone and is solely repsonsible for HD-DVD surviving.

My bad.....I didn't realize that the BD club even sold players other than the PS3. Unless you're telling me there are Panasonic or Samsung Playstations?

Yes, although I experienced very few problems with my HD A1, they were nevertheless a bit distracting. It was more along the lines of momentary freezing or the disc appeared to skip. I have yet (knock on wood) to see any of those glitches (knock on wood) plaguing my PS3 or Blu-ray discs. I even like how easy the firmware updates can be made. Generally, I have to admit to being more content with my Blu-ray experiences since diving in to high definition last year. That is one of the many reasons I went from neutral to Blu.

Yeah, the wireless capabilities of the PS3 (i.e. without having to jump through any extra hoops like with the XA2) is awesome. I have to say that I am slightly favoring HD DVD, but I still will not buy any combos (300) available on both...I'll buy the BD instead. BD has given me no playback issues at all, versus the horrendous combos. But I still have a fond spot for HD DVD and its potential and will continue to support it.

Yeah, the wireless capabilities of the PS3 (i.e. without having to jump through any extra hoops like with the XA2) is awesome. I have to say that I am slightly favoring HD DVD, but I still will not buy any combos (300) available on both...I'll buy the BD instead. BD has given me no playback issues at all, versus the horrendous combos. But I still have a fond spot for HD DVD and its potential and will continue to support it.


Did you have the issue with the PS3 that I mentioned several post back? I know some versions of the PS3 didn't suffer from the problem but it was very annoying for a couple of months for me.

Did you have the issue with the PS3 that I mentioned several post back? I know some versions of the PS3 didn't suffer from the problem but it was very annoying for a couple of months for me.

Weird, nope I never had that problem, nor any other problem that has or hasn't been fixed with FW on the PS3...

A better value???? Why because the HD DVD player is cheaper? People want to watch movies from ALL studios, not a few studios.

HD DVD studio support: 40%
Blu Ray studio support: 80%

And that is not even a weighted average based on the amount of content a studio has to offer.

What kind of salesman would suggest people invest in a player with 40% studio support?

It would depend on which type of movies they want to watch for the most part. And of course, it would depend on the supporting studios actually releasing movies, which isn't always the case.

To those that are not 'experts', upconverted DVD looks and sound nearly as good as does either BD or HDDVD. So buying the cheaper hardware that actually does all that BD says they will do after 10/31/2007 that HDDVD does right now makes good sense.

Watch those movies in HDDVD that you want and use SD upconverted for the rest.

Simple sale, simple economics.

But the real reality is that both formats are overpriced and under-supported. So maybe if I was really a good salesman, I would recommend they not buy either.

People need to relax. I give this thread about 2 more pages tops before the mods lock it from all the sniping left and right.


A good salesman shouldn't suggest anything. He should put the cards on the table and let the person make up their mind on an informed decision. If a salesman influences someone to buy one over the other then his own bias is coming into play and shouldn't.

Customers that buy based on their own merit and not salesman mumbo jumbo will be customers of that good salesman for a long long long time and they are less likely to return the item.

A good salesman (and I was an excellent one) asks lots of questions to determine proper equipment to suggest, giving reasons why. If I'm just 'putting all the cards on the table', I'm not helping the customer make an informed decision. Primarily because of all the misleading statements and outright lies about product that exists in much of the marketing material.

Putting 'all the cards on the table' is what the dept store does and leads to lots of returns and other issues.

Weird, nope I never had that problem, nor any other problem that has or hasn't been fixed with FW on the PS3...

They fixed it about a couple of months ago with a fw update. It was all over the forums for a couple of months. That was a software issue with the PS3 and not something wrong with Blu-Ray just as the HD-DVD issue is with the factory and not something wrong with the format.

If it's available on both and the cost is the same, I'll get HD DVD. And in recent cases (Coming to America), the HD DVD has been reviewed with better PQ.

If the HD DVD is a combo, there's no question I buy the blu-ray...

Basically it comes down to price, but all things being equal...HD DVD.

They fixed it about a couple of months ago with a fw update. It was all over the forums for a couple of months. That was a software issue with the PS3 and not something wrong with Blu-Ray just as the HD-DVD issue is with the factory and not something wrong with the format.

Yeah I don't think the problems are with either format. My HD DVD problems are strictly with playback of combos, and some other issues with the XA2. But the format itself is just fine. I'll continue to buy content on both formats as long as it isn't on combos.

A good salesman (and I was an excellent one) asks lots of questions to determine proper equipment to suggest, giving reasons why. If I'm just 'putting all the cards on the table', I'm not helping the customer make an informed decision. Primarily because of all the misleading statements and outright lies about product that exists in much of the marketing material.
You are helping them make an informed decidsion. The misleading statements are not to be spoken by you when promoting both products. If you are using marketing material then you aren't a good salesman. You are just another blu shirt.

You are helping them make an informed decidsion. The misleading statements are not to be spoken by you when promoting both products. If you are using marketing material then you aren't a good salesman. You are just another blu shirt.

It is true, you shouldn't tell customers misleading statements and good salesmen rely on referral sales to ensure further business. If I were to mislead or screw a customer, I would end up paying in the end.

I was never a 'pick-your-color shirt'!

So far, I have only bought the HD DVD versions of movies that are available in both formats. I had my HD DVD player first, so it may be habit as much as anything. I will pick a combo disc over a non-combo as well. Probably the first time I buy a Blu-ray version of a dual-format release will be when one is released with more features or better audio on the Blu version, or if I find a better sale price.

I finally went with Blu-Ray. I figured with all the capabilities of the product and backing from the studios that I would get the best bang for my buck with it. I am more of your average early adopter, I am knowledgable about the subject, but not NEARLY as much as these other people, so I'd say I represent the non-gurus, but people wanting to make an educated decision to a HD movie player.

Keep in mind I bought a 20GB PS3 for it with the intention that if Blu-Ray did not win, I'd still have a PS3 to play (if/when any good games come out for it, and to play PS2 games I never got a chance to play since I never owned a PS2).