Why is it that fewer blu-rays have the DTS-HD and Dolby HD sound formats?

It seems that more HD DVDs have these sound formats, and with the new receivers coming out to support these formats, it's a little disappointing. :(

PCM is just as good as any competing format from Dolby or DTS.

PCM is just as good as any competing format from Dolby or DTS.Sound wise yes it's identical, but TrueHD and DTS-MA are superior by using less space compared to PCM.

Sound wise yes it's identical, but TrueHD and DTS-MA are superior by using less space compared to PCM.


But that's not an issue for Blu-ray discs, so the point is moot.

PCM to me is far more superior than Dolby True HD or any compression scheme. No one is able to hear DTS MA yet so I don't want to go there and I don't care who said True HD is better than PCM with less space. PCM dynamic range is amazing with fuller sound. Plus BluRay has 50GB of space and the PCM only take 6 to 7 Gig so there is no issue here with space.

Sound wise yes it's identical, but TrueHD and DTS-MA are superior by using less space compared to PCM.

I was referring to sound quality. ;)

Why is it that fewer blu-rays have the DTS-HD and Dolby HD sound formats?

It seems that more HD DVDs have these sound formats, and with the new receivers coming out to support these formats, it's a little disappointing. :(

How did you come to this conclusion?

There are very few HD DVD that come with Dolby TrueHD tracks. And I dont think ive seen any movie on HD DVD have a DTS HD Master Audio track (atleast not the American releases).

On Blu-Ray pretty much every movie from the Blu-Ray exclusive studios has a lossless track in either having a DTS HD MA track or an uncompressed PCM track.

DTS-DA (MA) - 96 / 24 - Lossless 24.5 Mbps for BD and 18.5 Mbps for HD DVD. Bit-4-Bit identical to the Studio Master discrete

DTS-HD - Lossless Compressed - 96 / 24 , 7.1ch @ 3 Mbps discrete

LPCM - Uncompressed Upto 7.1 @ 4.6 Mbps, @6 Mbps discrete

Dolby TrueHD - Lossless Compressed (depends on disc capacity), 18 Mbps, 96 / 24 discrete

Which one is superior - DTS-HD(MA) and finally the 2 channels on your HEAD (EARS).

PCM to me is far more superior than Dolby True HD or any compression scheme. No one is able to hear DTS MA yet so I don't want to go there and I don't care who said True HD is better than PCM with less space. PCM dynamic range is amazing with fuller sound. Plus BluRay has 50GB of space and the PCM only take 6 to 7 Gig so there is no issue here with space.


Here we go again. Why is it so hard for people to understand that lossless compression is bit for bit identical to PCM?

Yes, it sucks that we can't get DTS MA yet, but when we do, it will sound IDENTICAL to an equivalent PCM track.

yep, lossless means lossless! As in nothing is lost in the compression.

The DTS-HD and TrueHD tracks are often a higher bit depth than the PCM and thus superior. Ghost Rider for example.

True, most BD players can't decode either, and most of those can't even transmit it via bitstream.

While 20-bit versus 16-bit only sounds like a 25% improvement on paper, it is actually a SIXTEEN FOLD improvement! 16-bit has 65.6K possible pitches, 20-bit has ONE MILLION! 24-bit ups it further with SIXTEEN MILLION.

I was referring to sound quality. ;)That's what I said, the sound quality is equal. ;)

But that's not an issue for Blu-ray discs, so the point is moot.If that was the case then Sony Pictures wouldn't be moving to TrueHD as a standard.

Why is it so hard for people to understand that lossless compression is bit for bit identical to PCM?


Not to my ear when I played Ghost Rider and switch back and forth between PCM and True HD. PCM produced a fuller sound and more dynamic than True HD.

Not to my ear when I played Ghost Rider and switch back and forth between PCM and True HD. PCM produced a fuller sound and more dynamic than True HD.

maybe they used dialog norm on that trueHD track or cheated and did some pre-filtering and dynamic range alteration before applying the truehd lossless compression. or maybe you connected them in different ways or your receiver did something to one or the other. but if don't mopnkey around and feed truehd created a given PCM track and you play them back on teh same equipment using the same connections without applying and post-processing to the sound it should sound 100% the same, i mean it will decode, in memory the truehd to the exact same thing as the PCM track stored in memory! lossless is lossless!

Not to my ear when I played Ghost Rider and switch back and forth between PCM and True HD. PCM produced a fuller sound and more dynamic than True HD.Curious, most reviewers say that they didn't notice any difference between the PCM and TrueHD track. I found it interesting that they did not find a difference between the 20 bit TrueHD track and the 16 bit PCM track.

DVD Talk:

Sony gives this disc an uncompressed 5.1 audio track as well as a Dolby True HD option. (There's also a French dub in 5.1.) There really isn't much difference between the two, and viewers will be pleased with either selection.

DVD Review:

The disc contains a losslessly compressed Dolby Digital TrueHD track along with an uncompressed 5.1 PCM track. This is the absolute high end of audio presentations, of course, as these are both exactly reproducing the audio master of the film.

MovieFreak:

Sony has once again included two lossless audio tracks--PCM and Dolby TrueHD 5.1 options--and once again it’s a wash as to which is better. I noticed no discernible difference between the two, although the PCM track does play slightly louder.

Hi-Def Digest:

Aside from the PCM sounding a little louder than the TrueHD, after level matching I couldn't discern a difference between the two.

In my theater Dolby TrueHD is the sweet spot! ;)

Curious, most reviewers say that they didn't notice any difference between the PCM and TrueHD track.

People equate 'louder=better' :D

maybe they used dialog norm on that trueHD track or cheated and did some pre-filtering and dynamic range alteration before applying the truehd lossless compression. or maybe you connected them in different ways or your receiver did something to one or the other. but if don't mopnkey around and feed truehd created a given PCM track and you play them back on teh same equipment using the same connections without applying and post-processing to the sound it should sound 100% the same, i mean it will decode, in memory the truehd to the exact same thing as the PCM track stored in memory! lossless is lossless!
I think this particular case is placebo effect.

Paidgeek (our resident Sony Pictures Entertainment insider) confirmed that Ghost Rider's TrueHD track does not have dialogue normalization applied (unlike the vast majority of TrueHD discs out there). He didn't mention dynamic range alteration either, but I suppose it's possible though unlikely if dialnorm wasn't used either.

In addition, the TrueHD track is 20/96 rather than the PCM's 16/96, and thus should sound a bit fuller.

Curious, most reviewers say that they didn't notice any difference between the PCM and TrueHD track. I found it interesting that they did not find a difference between the 20 bit TrueHD track and the 16 bit PCM track.

where is your source for the reviewers??? plus no one should buy a movie based on any reviewer. Anyone should buy the movie and judge for themselves. My preamp is a Meridian 861. What is your equipment to state True HD sound the same as PCM?? I only have 1 thing to say is DO NOT MESS with the space. PCM takes more space but the dynamic range will maintain. Dolby TRueHD tries to reduce the space and therefore has to use some kind of ways to reduce space so the dynamic range of the sound is reduced. Dynamic range is being reduced, the sound doesn not sound as natural or as good as RAW data PCM.

where is your source for the reviewers??? plus no one should buy a movie based on any reviewer. Anyone should buy the movie and judge for themselves. My preamp is a Meridian 861. What is your equipment to state True HD sound the same as PCM?? I only have 1 thing to say is DO NOT MESS with the space. PCM takes more space but the dynamic range will maintain. Dolby TRueHD tries to reduce the space and therefore has to use some kind of ways to reduce space so the dynamic range of the sound is reduced. Dynamic range is being reduced, the sound doesn not sound as natural or as good as RAW data PCM.You have TrueHD confused with Dolby Digital...

Dolby Digital = Lossy encode
Dolby TrueHD = Lossless encode

LOSSLESS COMPRESSION
Unlike perceptual or lossy data reduction, lossless
coding does not alter the final decoded transmitted
signal in any way, but merely ‘packs’ the audio data
more efficiently into a smaller data rate.

TrueHD and for that matter DTS-MA are bit for bit identical to the original PCM master.

Oh, and since your a Meridian fan, you should know that TrueHD uses Meridian Lossless Packing (MLP).

http://www.meridian-audio.com/w_paper/mlp_jap_new.PDF

http://www.dolby.com/consumer/technology/mlp_lossless.html

but merely ‘packs’ the audio data
more efficiently into a smaller data rate.

I believe you will reduce the dynamic range by doing this. I don't know what to tell you but when I played True HD versus PCM with Ghost Rider, my ears was telling me switch back to PCM. True HD sounded a bit harsher to the ears than PCM. I mean I got no benefits for saying this but hope all studios will use PCM in the future.

I believe you will reduce the dynamic range by doing this. I don't know what to tell you but when I played True HD versus PCM with Ghost Rider, my ears was telling me switch back to PCM. True HD sounded a bit harsher to the ears than PCM. I mean I got no benefits for saying this but hope all studios will use PCM in the future.

Unlike perceptual or lossy data reduction, lossless
coding does not alter the final decoded transmitted
signal in any way'Nuff Said

People equate 'louder=better' :DI think this is hddvds issue.

But that's not an issue for Blu-ray discs, so the point is moot.


Ditto to that, since you got more space on a disc and they are even talking about bigger Blu-Ray disc coming out down the road 50gig + discs..

http://www.betanews.com/article/TDK_Develops_200GB_Bluray_Disc/1157125164

yeah 200GB...PCM ALL THE WAY!!!!!

HUnter67

here is the review for The Lost City by hidef review site and they did say PCM track on BluRay sounded better than True HD of HD-DVD version. So TrueHd is the same as PCM heh???? NOT

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/lostcity.html

To me the HD trailers have better 2.1ch sound than Dolby True HD and PCM.

HUnter67

here is the review for The Lost City by hidef review site and they did say PCM track on BluRay sounded better than True HD of HD-DVD version. So TrueHd is the same as PCM heh???? NOT

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/lostcity.html This doesn't prove anything other than some agree's with you. Highdefdigest is far from the final word when it comes to reviews. However, you just as anyone else is entitled to their opinion.

Well after enjoying lossless for the first time in my life, it all sounds great to me, sure I'm not an expert, but shouldn't we be happy that we are getting all these lossless tracks anyways? I've tried PCM on Casino Royale, and it was simply amazing. I tried True HD on The Matrix, and it sounded amazing. The point I'm trying to say, is that instead of fighting over it all, lets just enjoy the fact that home theatre has come so far now, that it's a more enjoyable experience than theatre when it comes to sound. Trust me, if I can watch my movies at home now, instead of going to the theatre, I would. Sure it's fun to be in a crowds with big popcorn movies like Transformers, but at the same time, there were so many children at my screenings, it was hard to enjoy it with a lot of them crying. Wow, I just got into a rant about nothing, but truly this point I'm trying to say, it's all up to peoples own personal tastes. I guess I'm still getting used to this whole lossless thing, but honestly, I can't even fathom watching these movies on the "legacy" formats lol.