Recently sent an email to Kelley of Paramount asking why they do not provide the same audio options on BD as HD DVD, choosing to release DD on BD and DD+ on HD DVD. Here is the response received from her team:

Hi John,

We did some investigating with our technical team on your inquiry. We
never try to give Blu-ray the "short end" on audio. Dolby Digital Plus
is not viable on Blu-ray at this time. However, it may be viable in the
near future. Also, we need the extra disc capacity of a Blu-ray 50 to
add higher level audio. Now that we can use BD 50, we have chosen to
use uncompressed PCM on our upcoming releases (starting with Blades of
Glory).

We will be using uncompressed PCM audio on our upcoming Blu-ray releases
where space permits. Similarly we will be using Dolby TrueHD audio on
HD-DVD releases where space permits. Both audio formats use a lot of
disc space so we evaluate each title case by case.


So it looks like we can expect PCM on upcoming titles, whether this becomes the standard is yet to be seen, I have a follow up question on using TrueHD pointing to Sony as an example.

Wow, a personal reply from a studio... that's cool. Sounds like we're in for some better sounding BDs from Paramount. :cool:

Recently sent an email to Kelley Avery of Paramount asking why they do not provide the same audio options on BD as HD DVD, choosing to release DD on BD and DD+ on HD DVD. Here is the response received from her team:


So it looks like we can expect PCM on upcoming titles, whether this becomes the standard is yet to be seen, I have a follow up question on using TrueHD pointing to Sony as an example.

Yes their first release with PCM will be Blades of Glory, Top Gun wil have it to.. and i'am pretty sure Transformer will have it too..

The movies in the Jack Ryan collection will also have a PCM track.

I'm very concerned about Face/Off and The Island (when it's announced), lossless is a must for these action titles spectacles.

It's about time!

Great news!

But I guess this sort of rules out Shooter and Face/off, huh?

Hope those would include PCM as well.

Yes their first release with PCM will be Blades of Glory, Top Gun wil have it to...

Hate to show my ignorance here guys. Top Gun was a favorite of mine on Laser Disk but the volume was so low. Was there a problem with the Laser version? My recall even at the theater was that some of the back ground was weak. Like when the catapult blast shield was raised.

Music sound track was one of the best. :)

Thank you, Paramount!

Recently sent an email to Kelley Avery of Paramount asking why they do not provide the same audio options on BD as HD DVD, choosing to release DD on BD and DD+ on HD DVD. Here is the response received from her team:


So it looks like we can expect PCM on upcoming titles, whether this becomes the standard is yet to be seen, I have a follow up question on using TrueHD pointing to Sony as an example.

Good news for Transformers.

It's good to know they care...

Top Gun was a favorite of mine on Laser Disk but the volume was so low. Was there a problem with the Laser version? My recall even at the theater was that some of the back ground was weak. Like when the catapult blast shield was raised.

Music sound track was one of the best.
You didn't own the DD Remastered LD did you? If so I don't know how on earth you could say it was low. That soundtrack is friggin loud. I have to assume you are talking about the old DPL Laserdisc. The first DVD was just as bad. The DTS 6.1 remaster sounds almost if not the same as the DD remastered LD.

Great news on the lossless sound. I wonder if that is why they delayed Ghost and moved back Zodiac on the HigH Def formats to include the lossless tracks on their releases

Can you imagine Transformers in PCM?? OMG!

I didn't realise Paramount don't currently use Losseless PCM on there BD's. I would really like to get Topgun and a few others, but will hold off if they don't use it.

PCM the way to go. It is a literally an ACID test to my television's speakers.

Top Gun + PCM = :)

Top Gun + PCM = :)

I will see your Top Gun + PCM and raise you Transformers + PCM = :D :D :D

You didn't own the DD Remastered LD did you? If so I don't know how on earth you could say it was low. That soundtrack is friggin loud. I have to assume you are talking about the old DPL Laserdisc. The first DVD was just as bad. The DTS 6.1 remaster sounds almost if not the same as the DD remastered LD.

Thanks for the info. I have the old DPL Laserdisc.

Hope my ears are worthy.
Top Gun on my Buy list now. :)

Top Gun needs 6.1 discrete, 24 bit PCM! They made a new 6.1 mix (which is quite cool), so why not use it.

All (as in every single one) of their titles should be at least 24 bit Dolby TrueHD (without dial norm). They could easily save space by going this route. With PCM you do have to sometimes work on a title by title basis, or downconvert to 16 bit, which no one wants to have happen.

Dan

Top Gun needs 6.1 discrete, 24 bit PCM! They made a new 6.1 mix (which is quite cool), so why not use it.

From the information I currently know, Top Gun's PCM track will be 48 kHz/24-bit in 5.1 channels.

Paramount, Paramount! Don't you guys look at your available audio files? Didn't you guys just create a 24 bit, 6.1 discrete PCM track for the last DVD (granted, it was then encoded to DTS-ES 6.1)? Use that PCM track!

Argh!!!

Fox put a 24 bit, 6.1 discrete lossless track on X-Men 3! Lionsgate has done 6.1 PCM too (albeit, 16 bit). There are two true 7.1 discrete PCM tracks out in the market now... Ghost in the Shell 2 and Ultimate Avengers.

Will they listen... will they learn?

Just be happy that you are getting the track in full bit depth. The same cannot be said about Lionsgate's efforts. For what it's worth, I remember the Paramount insider indicating that the 6.1 DTS track will also be included.

I'm sure layering PLIIx on top of the 5.1 PCM track will sound just fine. For me, the results of doing so have been more than satisfactory with a number of PCM tracks.

Paramount, Paramount! Don't you guys look at your available audio files? Didn't you guys just create a 24 bit, 6.1 discrete PCM track for the last DVD (granted, it was then encoded to DTS-ES 6.1)? Use that PCM track!

Argh!!!

Fox put a 24 bit, 6.1 discrete lossless track on X-Men 3! Lionsgate has done 6.1 PCM too (albeit, 16 bit). There are two true 7.1 discrete PCM tracks out in the market now... Ghost in the Shell 2 and Ultimate Avengers.

Will they listen... will they learn?

Get over yourself, seriously. Just be happy that Paramont is actually adding PCM to their newer releases.

Get over myself? I think it would be great if they use a PCM track that has already been created! It's not THAT hard.

Get over myself? I think it would be great if they use a PCM track that has already been created! It's not THAT hard.

I know it's not that hard. But that hasn't stopped them from foregoing lossless audio up until this announcement. The same goes for Warner and most of their releases.

Didn't you guys just create a 24 bit, 6.1 discrete PCM track for the last DVD (granted, it was then encoded to DTS-ES 6.1)?No, they didn't. The PCM track was 5.1 discrete channels, with the surround-back channel matrixed into the L/R surround channels using a Surround EX encoder. This was then compressed using DD and DTS encoders, for delivery on DVD.

The DTS track got an extension packet attached that contained the surround-back channel by itself (same information completely copied in the L&R surround-channels of the DTS track). The duplication is needed for backwards compatability with early DTS ES (matrix) decoders and/or 5.1 speaker set-ups.

When the DTS ES Discrete 6.1 track is fully decoded, the surround-back channel is sent to the rear speakers while the surround-back info is matrix cancelled from the L/R surround channels before being sent to the side speakers.

Paramount can't load this same DTS channel configuration as a 6.1 PCM track because there is no decoding step for PCM that cancels rear information from the sides. You'd end up hearing rear information from your left and your right and behind you. The rear information can be delivered in triplicate on the DTS track, since ES decoding takes care of the redundancy, but not as a LPCM track.

Since there never was a discrete 6.1 mix to begin with, Paramount can't "Use that PCM track!".

Sanjay

I just hope that they keep the lossless audio in the European releases. And if there´s not enough space, switch to truehd, bear in mind that pretty much everyone here that buys blu-ray has a ps3!!!

No, they didn't. The PCM track was 5.1 discrete channels, with the surround-back channel matrixed into the L/R surround channels using a Surround EX encoder. This was then compressed using DD and DTS encoders, for delivery on DVD.

The DTS track got an extension packet attached that contained the surround-back channel by itself (same information completely copied in the L&R surround-channels of the DTS track). The duplication is needed for backwards compatability with early DTS ES (matrix) decoders and/or 5.1 speaker set-ups.

When the DTS ES Discrete 6.1 track is fully decoded, the surround-back channel is sent to the rear speakers while the surround-back info is matrix cancelled from the L/R surround channels before being sent to the side speakers.

Paramount can't load this same DTS channel configuration as a 6.1 PCM track because there is no decoding step for PCM that cancels rear information from the sides. You'd end up hearing rear information from your left and your right and behind you. The rear information can be delivered in triplicate on the DTS track, since ES decoding takes care of the redundancy, but not as a LPCM track.

Since there never was a discrete 6.1 mix to begin with, Paramount can't "Use that PCM track!".

Sanjay

Great post, Sanjay. Right on spot.

"Real aka discret 6.1/7.1" mixing for HT purposes/configurations (3x front, 2x side surround, 1-2x back surround" is practically non-existend. Cinema 6/7 channel configurations are different (eg. SDDS)


All the 6.1/7.1 streams available on disc are using "matrixed" back surround channels - pretty much the very same thing you get with PLIIx.


btw PARAMOUNT using LOSSLESS (-> unprocessed 16it/20bit/24bit depending on the source) SOUND is fantastic news.

Yes, PCM ALL THE WAY.

I will see your Top Gun + PCM and raise you Transformers + PCM = :D :D :D I will see that, and raise with LOTR + PCM = :D:D:D:D

I will see that, and raise with LOTR + PCM = :D:D:D:D
might as well raise star wars too then!
i wonder how good final fantasy advent children will look and sound on blu-ray.

Yes, PCM ALL THE WAY.

PCM or DD THD will turm me into a Paramount buyer as opposed to renter.
All the studios need to start using actual HD audio on every title released IMO.

PARAMOUNT using LOSSLESS (-> unprocessed 16it/20bit/24bit depending on the source) SOUND is fantastic news.Indeed it is. Something to get worked up about, but in a good way.

With all the complaining I read on these forums, it's sometimes easy to forget that watching movies at home has never been this good: full rez HD picture and lossless sound. Almost like we're entering a golden age of home video. Is it perfect? Of course not (what is?). But it's certainly better than anything that's come before.

So I'm always glad when someone points out some good news; or in this case, "fantastic news". Hope other studios follow.

Sanjay

might as well raise star wars too then!
i wonder how good final fantasy advent children will look and sound on blu-ray. I think I just drooled a bit... :D