ATI Radeon HD 2X00 (2400,2600,2900) series owners thread [Text View] - Page 8

arfster

08-29-07, 09:11 PM

For the bars next to the dots I get 16 and 239, if I check the BTB and WTW (next bars over), I get 5 and 249.

As AR said, that 239 should be 235. Is some other contrast setting perhaps minutely above default? ("use application" in CCC ticked? something in zoom?).

I''ve found a little more detail about expansion not happening btw. Turns out it's not hardware acceleration in VMR9 that causes expansion, it's mixer mode. You can stop it expanding by disabling this in VMR9 renderless (not possible in VMR9 windowed I think). This disables all color controls in CCC as well, so looks like it's basically screwing the routine within the drivers that causes >720 to be expanded. Quite possibly zoomplayer or others might not have this on by default.

ps MPC allows you to disable VMR9 mixermode. In graphedit mixermode is not used for standard VMR9 (so no expansion), but you can enable it by going to procamp under vmr9 settings, moving any of the sliders, then defaulting them back. Similarly, the CCC colour controls don't work until you do this, because you're not in mixermode yet.

Rick Guynn

08-29-07, 10:04 PM

arfster

08-29-07, 10:36 PM

I adjusted the color controls within ZP and got that upper band down to 235. Now all of the values match up (+/- 1) across the board with what AR posted up.

Oh and I have the SD version of DVE, and those values match exactly with the ones from the ramp.ts file. So, this would appear to indicate that the string works in XP.

Hrrm - what is at when zoom colour controls are at default? The driver/card shouldn't be doing any processing unless you tell it to (in theory!) - the dots should be 16 and 235 without touching them. On mine they're 0 and 255, aka a full levels expansion, until I do the CCC brightness16/contrast86 to reverse that expansion.

Andy o

08-29-07, 10:37 PM

I'm getting auto expansion in Media Center in Vista 32. Are any of you guys using ATI cards getting double expansion? I'm with an Nvidia 8600GTS, with its overlay (or EVR, whatever) calibrated so as to make 16 black and 235 white, so my contrast in PowerDVD looks good, but on Media center it looks double-expanded.

Wicked Klown

08-29-07, 10:47 PM

Just got my Sapphire HD2600xt yesterday. Up til today I was loving, tried playing Flyboys and had a bad case of ghosting. I had an image behind the image going on. This problem didn't happen with my eVga 8800GTS just with the 2600xt. Anyone have any idea why this is doing this or maybe know of a fix. I would love to be able to watch it again without the ghosting.

Rick Guynn

08-29-07, 11:13 PM

Hrrm - what is at when zoom colour controls are at default? The driver/card shouldn't be doing any processing unless you tell it to (in theory!) - the dots should be 16 and 235 without touching them. On mine they're 0 and 255, aka a full levels expansion, until I do the CCC brightness16/contrast86 to reverse that expansion.

If I turn the controls off, they do indeed go to 0 and 255. I checked both HD (ramp.ts) and SD of that ramp pattern. Oh, and it still does it even with renderless exclusive - still 0 and 255.

alluringreality

08-30-07, 12:54 AM

Yesterday you said you're using a monitor. Because the ATI is defaulting to 0-255, if you're using a monitor you might want to just stick with that signal. You wouldn't have to have two desktops that way and you wouldn't have to make so many changes that could possibly degrade the image. You've already seen how you can add below black (<16) or super-white (>235) if you want to, but there's not necessarily a reason to do so. As long as all your video ends up at similar levels it can be calibrated and expansion isn't always a negative.

RogueWarrior

08-30-07, 03:04 AM

I set all the color vibrance values in the registry to 0. Now the colors look good, but we get blockage appearing every so often. It is not in the stream. Are people seeing this as well? Random but not very often.

Thanks!

arfster

08-30-07, 04:53 AM

Yesterday you said you're using a monitor. Because the ATI is defaulting to 0-255, if you're using a monitor you might want to just stick with that signal.

I'd agree with that. The expansion+contraction is visually lossless for SD (even zoomed right in), but possibly it might not be for HD - it's harder to test for, because it expands HD in almost all circumstances, and the method of getting an original frame might be introducing other processing differences.

voicecoils

08-30-07, 06:00 AM

Anyone know how to manually restart the ATI drivers (or whatever controls HW acceleration)?

I've found that when switching between HD-DVD titles, HW acceleration will sometimes disappear. Restarting PDVD doesn't help, a full system reboot is required.

Setup:
* Asus EAH2400Pro
* WinXP
* Bioshock Hotfix drivers
* PDVD 7.3 Ultra build 2911

THANKS!

gbcrush

08-30-07, 09:20 AM

Sorry, just had to quit reading this (and AVS forum in general) for a few weeks, lest I went crazy. And oh look, I gained a bunch of worry-free hours back in my day to day life! :D

But you know how it goes, I just gotta check on what's happening, and it looks like you guys have been busy. I tried poking through what I've missed and I've got to ask: where are we now?

It looks like official drivers are still 7.8. Arfster has a set of tweaked, early 7.9 drivers. This includes fixes that makes SD levels expand like HD levels?

Great!

...now what do I do? Let's say I'm happy with where my TV is calibrated as far as contrast/brightness (my girlfriend says Princess Buttercup's dress looks appropriately red and blue in various scenes of The Princess Bride :D).

...so if I throw The Princess Bride DVD in again, after using these drivers, are you saying the colors will look a little off? If so, that means mean either re-balance the TV (preferable), or use the slider trick in CCC right?

...might that explain why some of the 720p video clips (gametrailers.com) look like I've lost a lot shadow detail, show perhaps more black crush, etc? I seem to see a lot more on my desktop PC, but admittedly, the monitor is running pretty bright.

gbcrush

08-30-07, 09:23 AM

arfster

08-30-07, 09:36 AM

Did some calibration testing with the w6rez.net 601/709 75% colour bars.... as above, the ATI drivers expand all HD, except when you use vmr9 with mixermode off (ie no color controls work). However, that's useless as a way to avoid expansion because it then uses bt601, and the decoding thus produces wonky colours for HD content, since that's in bt709 (eg what should be blue 16/16/180 is 17/5/173).

Good news on colour conversion accuracy though: as with SD (after usebt601csc is set), auto-expansion followed by the 16/86 CCC contraction method appears to be visually lossless. You get the occasional 16/16/181 or 16/17/180, but in a movie that's not at all visible.

Some odd things with MPC + VMR9 when hardware acceleration is turned on, and you use the CCC controls. To bring it back to tv levels, you need to use 8/92 rather than 16/86. Fortunately graphedit and DVBViewer VMR9+hardware acceleration are free from this problem. This isn't the first time with the ATI 2xxx cards I've noticed some wacky/unique MPC behaviour either, so if you must use a VMR9 app in Vista it's probably best to choose something else. If possible at all, stick with EVR.

Might be an idea for XP users to test with the same patterns btw....

Edit: uh, my other logon doesn't do the MPC/vmr9 colour weirdness. Might be because it's using cat7.7, or might be something else. Worth checking anyway, if you have to use vista+vmr9.

arfster

08-30-07, 09:45 AM

It looks like official drivers are still 7.8. Arfster has a set of tweaked, early 7.9 drivers. This includes fixes that makes SD levels expand like HD levels?

Great!

...now what do I do? Let's say I'm happy with where my TV is calibrated as far as contrast/brightness (my girlfriend says Princess Buttercup's dress looks appropriately red and blue in various scenes of The Princess Bride :D).

Basically HD always expanded, and it appears there's no reg setting to change that. SD doesn't expand with default drivers, but this tweak means it does, thus HD and SD will be at the same levels (ie PC 0-255). With the default drivers you needed a different calibration for SD and HD, now you just need one.

If you only feed the TV from your PC, just install the tweaked 7.9s, calibrate your display to 0-255 and be happy. However, if your TV has other inputs (dvd player, sat box, tivo, whatever), those will all be running at 16-235 video levels, so you need to have your PC do that also. To do this go into CCC basic colours, untick use app settings, brightness16, contrast86. This simply reverses the previous expansion.

davidoff1204

08-30-07, 10:24 AM

I had a 1650XT that i changed for a Sapphire 2600 pro. When i connect it to my Mitsubishi HC3100 i don't get any signal with a dvi/hdmi cable who worked perfectly before i changed my graphic card. When I use a hdmi/hdmi cable with the dongle everything rules. Anyone has a solution, because I would prefer using my dvi/hdmi cable ?
Anyone has an idea ?

alluringreality

08-30-07, 10:57 AM

One thing that I would like to make clear is that if you're using 0-255, you will not want to use the black bars picture that has been referenced in some of these posts. If you're using 0-255 and do not modify things to add the below-black (original 0-15) or super-white (original 236-255), you can instead use http://tft.vanity.dk/monitorTest.exe to show the extremes of the scale. It has 1% steps at the high and low ends that many calibration videos I've seen do not show. 1% steps are nice so you can tell if you're cutting off information on the low-end. If you do add below-black or super-white to 0-255 though, you'll for sure want to use all video for calibration.

I actually use http://tft.vanity.dk/monitorTest.exe for a quick 1:1 pattern, but if someone was to check the main page bars pattern I'm guessing it matches exactly with 0-255 showing bars. I checked the bottom and top which do show 0 and 255.

topcaser

08-30-07, 11:08 AM

Do you remember that dual monitor issue? No video playback on the second monitor:-( It is solved now: first time that ATI support has given a solution. And - it worked. Here it is:

Video image is black on a secondary display or TV in Clone Mode / Extended Desktop

Open catalyst control center by double-clicking the icon called ATI catalyst control center on your desktop. Choose to view catalyst control center in advance view. On the left hand side there’s a menu. Select video and then theater mode.

When clone mode is enabled, the Video window appears black on the secondary display.

One of the new features of the CATALYST™ driver is the THEATER MODE feature.

THEATER MODE allows overlay to be available in a full screen mode on a dual head capable product.

Using ATI CATALYST Control Center:
The THEATER MODE option can be enabled using the following steps:

For Clone Mode
select the Advanced Settings under the CATALYST Control Center "View" menu
Under Video, select Theater Mode
In the Overlay Display in Clone Mode section, select the Theater Mode radio button

For Extended Mode
select the Advanced Settings under the CATALYST Control Center "View" menu
Under Video, select Theater Mode
In the Overlay Display for the second monitor, select the Theater Mode fullscreen

no1ninja

08-30-07, 12:05 PM

stanger89

08-30-07, 12:41 PM

arfster

08-30-07, 12:53 PM

Are you saying that FSE VMR9 with YUV Mixing enabled works correctly in that it doesn't expande HD, but is borked as far as colorspace conversion goes?

More or less, yes. It's not FSE though, just plain vmr9 renderless. Also mixer mode and YUV mixing are something different.

ToughRowToHoe

08-30-07, 02:17 PM

I've got a ticket in with ATI on my sound issue. I'll post, if they have an answer. Thanks again.

sharangad

08-30-07, 02:43 PM

Hi guys,

Have the HD 2600XT under xp64. I ran a HD video that I recorded (h.264) and the cpu usage is 35-40%, is this normal? I could of sworn that my old 1600hdmi did the same thing with 5%.

Is it possible that the hardware acceleration is not kicking in?

I even added the Cyberlink player and still high usage.

P5W-DH w/E6400@2.66, 1GB, HD2600xt

Currently there's not AVIVO HD support under 64 bit operating systems, unless I'm mistaken. The same is true of nVidia as they have no PureVideo support under XP 64 bit and Vista 64 bit.

stanger89

08-30-07, 04:22 PM

More or less, yes. It's not FSE though, just plain vmr9 renderless. Also mixer mode and YUV mixing are something different.

I'm sorta confused, what exactly do you mean by "mixermode"? If it's YUV Mixing is not a "mixermode" then I'm not familiar with it.

I currently run a 6800 with FSE VMR9 and YUV Mixing enabled. Ideally I'd like to run the same setup if I were to get a 2x00.

fallenturtle

08-30-07, 04:32 PM

Well this is a little dis concerning. I contacted ATI about my issue with the screen being all messed up when I watch x.264 material via the cyberlink decoder with DXVA on. Tech support emailed me back and asked me to install k-lite so to make sure I had all required codecs before they could further help me.

Is it me, or is that a bad idea? I mean I was under the understanding that its generally not a good idea to install codec packs because they bloat your system. Also, I'm not aware of any x.264 decoder in the k-lite packs that will take advantage of avivo. :/

arfster

08-30-07, 04:36 PM

Is it me, or is that a bad idea?

It's not just you: that's a very bad idea indeed :-) You already have the only avivo compatible h264 decoder out there anyway.

On top of that, the issue isn't anything to do with ATI, it's a cyberlink problem. Mail them and ask for PDVD to support the mkv format.

arfster

08-30-07, 04:37 PM

I'm sorta confused, what exactly do you mean by "mixermode"? If it's YUV Mixing is not a "mixermode" then I'm not familiar with it.

That's what MPC calls it :-) There's a separate tickbox for yuv mixing, but that has no effect.

fallenturtle

08-30-07, 07:54 PM

It's not just you: that's a very bad idea indeed :-) You already have the only avivo compatible h264 decoder out there anyway.

On top of that, the issue isn't anything to do with ATI, it's a cyberlink problem. Mail them and ask for PDVD to support the mkv format.

I have the same problem with .mp4 h.264 movies as well. I just have been trying to determine if I have an defective card before my 30 days is up to return it.

Farwando

08-31-07, 10:46 AM

Hey guys, im having trouble making my two 2400s work with crossfire i have the internal bridges and catalyst 7.7

i dont know if the problem is i need an external cable or i have bad software
i have a certified crossfire motherboard and 2 Saphire 2400XT exactly the same

my pc specs are
amd 5600+
4 gigs of ram but my computer only reads 2.5
vista home premium 32-bit

i have been trying to fix this problem for 2 weeks now so anything would help

digitlman

08-31-07, 11:06 AM

Perhaps it should be in another thread, but heck, it's related to my 2600pro.

Haven't gotten the ATI dongle yet, but I have noticed screenshots from people who have, it looks like it only supports output at 48khz?

...the SPDIF connection on my motherboard seems to support the range from 41 - 192 khz.

... *scratches head* makes me think when I eventually get a new shiny receiver, I may actually want to use HDMI for video only and run a coax or optical SPDIF connection for audio?

Will it make much a difference? I mean, there's available media that will do better than 48khz (like DTS 24/96 DVDs) out there too, right?

this is a slightly confusing point right now as i have heard people say that the HD cards convert your audio to 16/48 5.1 when it send the audio out the hdmi port. However i also spoke with someone from AMD at a show a couple weeks ago who said they just pass the raw audio from your computers soundriver to the hdmi port.

either way your system spdif output can ONLY do 5.1 @ 16/48 max or stereo 2 channel at 24/192. this is a limitation of spdif. If you want higher rez 5.1 then you need to add a soundcard that supports 24/192 5.1 with analog outputs. i am currently using one to get lossles highres tracks from movies and it works fine.

alluringreality

08-31-07, 03:09 PM

What renderers and settings do people here use? In Vista I stick to VMR9 and EVR. If I went with another, it would probably be Haali. I was thinking I might install XP for some testing over the holiday weekend. So aside from VMR7, is there anything else I should try? Renderers or settings still seem the most likely reason why others didn't get the same results as my 7.7 and 7.9 Vista installs.

Isn't HD a 0 IRE and SD a 7.5 IRE?

Looking at http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=494606 this appears to be only a concern for analog and a non-issue for digital.

Because the ATI is defaulting to 0-255, if you're using a monitor you might want to just stick with that signal.

Rick Guynn probably had the right initial idea of wanting to maintain studio (16-235) levels. In the above guide it's repeated to do so a number of times. In considering if I might want to use 0-255 it sounds like it could quite possibly introduce some problems the way the ATI is working, so I expect to stick with 16-235 for video. I still don't think there should be so many changes need as he was reporting though, so I might check things out on XP while I have it installed. That's why I'm asking for renderers and settings, because aside from using overlay (which runs horribly on my computer) I've never been able to replicate any of the problems that were previously reported with black-levels not matching.

This http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=32137&d=1105765568 might be a good image to use in checking if the registry modification ends up causing any color-space issues.

stanger89

08-31-07, 03:32 PM

Looking at http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=494606 this appears to be only a concern for analog and a non-issue for digital.

IRE is a measure of voltage, and thus only applicable to Analog, yes. However many, many people use IRE incorrectly when discussing levels in video.

I believe what Mntneer is saying/asking is if HD has a different "setup" as SD. The answer to that is NO. BT.601 (ITU standard for digital coding of SD) and BT.709 (ITU standard for digital coding of HD) both specify the exact same range, 16-235. 16 being black and 235 being white, with values 1-15 as toeroom, and 236-254 as headroom and 0 being reserved for sync.

7.5IRE is what digital 16 is normally represented as in analog voltage.

Rick Guynn probably had the right initial idea of wanting to maintain studio (16-235) levels. In the above guide it's repeated to do so a number of times. In considering if I might want to use 0-255 it sounds like it could quite possibly introduce some problems the way the ATI is working, so I expect to stick with 16-235 for video. I still don't think there should be so many changes need as he was reporting though, so I might check things out on XP while I have it installed.

Please let us know how it goes. I'm very interested in the results. I'd very much like to get a new video card for my HTPC that will allow it to deal with HD DVD and Blu-ray, but it's AGP so that means 2400 or 2600. Also it's running XP and there's no compelling reason for me to drop $200 on a copy of Vista for it.

I really want an AGP card with good VC-1 and H.264 accelleration that will provide proper levels for both SD and HD in FSE VMR9 under XP.

alluringreality

08-31-07, 03:50 PM

How do I run full screen exclusive in XP? I saw that Zoom Player has the option, but it's listed with some warnings about compatability. What are the benefits of FSE?

stanger89

08-31-07, 03:56 PM

How do I run full screen exclusive in XP? I saw that Zoom Player has the option, but it's listed with some warnings about compatability. What are the benefits of FSE?

I use SageTV or TheaterTek. FSE basically gives control of the graphics card completely over to the app, like a D3D game. Benefit is it's harder for things to interrupt the process, for me it seems to result in smoother, more reliable playback.

red5goahead

08-31-07, 04:04 PM

I mean I was under the understanding that its generally not a good idea to install codec packs because they bloat your system.

I propose the death penalty for codec packs creator.... :)

Anyway, which is the last version of cyberlink h.264 direct show filter knew to fully support new ati 2x00 series or nvidia 8x000.
thanks a lot.

arfster

08-31-07, 04:06 PM

Updated post of Vista32 79biofix + HTPC tweaks. Beyond updating the comments on the reg changes to current knowledge, this changes little from the previous one. For the 2400 dxva_nohddecode was set to 0 to enable mpeg2 HD acceleration, and more importantly vforce was set large enough for PDVD to fill a 1080p screen. The last post had it just a little low so some people were still getting extra borders.

http://rapidshare.com/files/52529639/Vista32_79biofix_plus_HTPC_tweaks_V2.zip.html

NOTES:

1) These drivers contain support for more brands and types of 2400/2600 than the official ones - particularly AGP cards.

2) I still can't figure out how to deselect colour/flesh "enhancements" by default. They're set to zero so probably not doing anything, but you might want to switch them off in CCC anyway.

3) This driver expands SD levels, the same way as HD is expanded automatically by the drivers. If you want 16-235 (video levels) then go into CCC/avivo video/basic colour and turn "use application settings" off, brightness to 16, contrast 86. This expansion then contraction is less than ideal, but fortunately the drivers/card make a good job of it, and it's visually lossless.

4) If you have a 2500*1600 screen, you will have to increase vforcemaxressize, see below under registry changes.

Before installing, run the complete ATI self-destruct sequence to rid your machine of driver remnants: in control panel/programs, uninstall ATI Catalyst Install Manager, and tell it to delete all ATI software. Reboot after, then delete any ATI directories in c:\program files, and if you have them run drivercleaner or xdc.

BORING LIST OF REGISTRY DIFFERENCES FROM OFFICIAL DRIVERS:

These exist under HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Video\.. .. , and in whichever one is your card (just hunt till you find the one with 0000 and 0001 with bazillions of entries). The entries below go under \UMD\DXVA, and in Vista are regstrings (except for a few which already exist and are reg_binary). In XP I think they go in the 0000 root, and are dwords.

added trdenoise 0 = turns off forced temporal denoise, which just blurs things

added dxva_detailenhance 0 = turns off forced sharpener. Some people may like this, so have a play - personally I think it results in too many unnatural edges with low bitrate stuff.

added VForceMaxResSize 2800000 = this sets the PDVD HDDVD/Bluray max render size in pixels. The formula appears to be screen width squared * 0.75, so for 1920 wide screens it needs to be at least 2764800. If the key doesn't exist at all as in the default installs, it assumes a value of approx 2 million pixels, not enough to fill a 1080p screen. The above value is OK for up to 1920 pixels wide, but if you have a 2500*1600 screen it needs to be 4687500 or greater. Since there's maybe a performance reason for a limit, it's probably worth not setting it higher than you need.

Fleshtone and ColorVibrance minimum/defaults changed to 0. The standard 2600 install has these on and at 25, but if you disable them in CCC they actually still continue to work at their default, ie 25. Setting mins and defaults to 0 means that when you deselect them in CCC, they actually turn off - your choice of course, but several people have reported that vibrance in particular results in posterisation.

added UseBT601CSC 1 = causes SD to expand to 0-255, in the same manner as HD (which expands regardless what you do) for a consistent single calibration between the two.

(2600 only) default di mode to VA. In Vista there's a bug where auto mode in CCC for 1080i just selects bob. This reg change forces the issue. Unfortunately, it won't work for the 2400 in Vista because only bob/weave are allowed in standard directshow (powerdvd is the exception, its manual deinterlacing selection options somehow bypass this).

(2400 only) dxva_nohddecode added and set to 0. Enables mpeg2 HD acceleration. This can potentially create problems - if your GPU (see rivatuner) is being maxxed out by 1080i mpeg2 after this, set this back to 1 and use PowerDVD with hardware deinterlacing in options/video/advanced forced to 3C (vector-adaptive, the best) or 55 (motion-adaptive, next best). This avoids the enormous hit of mpeg2 HD decoding, which is around 50% GPU on a 2400pro or 35% on a 2600pro, but still gets you hardware deinterlacing. As above, in Vista the drivers for the 2400 will happily ignore whatever deinterlacing mode you select in CCC. XP is better behaved and will obey the CCC mode, but outside PDVD to get deinterlacing without acceleration the only choice (afaik) is the Bitcontrol mpeg2 decoder.

Other known bugs: PAL film is misdetected as video (barely noticeable), mpeg2 not in UVD but in shaders, 2400 Bluray mpeg2 not accelerated regardless of regsettings, 50hz displays have no overscan correction.

Version 2, 31/Aug/07

alluringreality

08-31-07, 04:37 PM

UseBT601CSC 1 = causes SD to expand to 0-255

Running VMR9 I still couldn't get SD to do anything other than 16-235. The only way I could seem to get SD to do PC 0-255 levels was by running some of the overlay modes or EVR.

arfster

08-31-07, 04:56 PM

Running VMR9 I still couldn't get SD to do anything other than 16-235. The only way I could seem to get SD to do 0-255 was by running some of the overlay modes or EVR.

What client are you using? Some VMR9 apps don't use mixermode, thus colour controls are disabled and the drivers can't expand - decoder colours are way off though, if you look on colour ramps.

If you go into vmr9 properties, fiddle with something on procamp then set it back to default, you should find things are suddenly getting expanded (seems moving a procamp control enables mixermode).

If you have the DVE dvd, try title12, ch7. The colours are at 75%, so should be 180. Expanded they'll be 191/192.

ps you are in Vista I assume? (some people have taken to implanting EVR into xp!)

vega22

08-31-07, 05:10 PM

Other known bugs: PAL film is misdetected as video (barely noticeable), mpeg2 not in UVD but in shaders (stresses the 2400 cards a lot), 2400 Bluray mpeg2 not accelerated regardless of regsettings.

They are bugs of only 2400 or both, 2400 and 2600?

arfster

08-31-07, 05:18 PM

They are bugs of only 2400 or both, 2400 and 2600?

Both - MPEG2 in shaders doesn't matter much for the 2600 though, because they have enough power to cope with it. The PAL dvd thing happens with 2600 and 2400.

Bluray mpeg2 is accelerated by the 2600, but not at all by the 2400. The same thing happens with HD mpeg2 file playback, where the 2400 needs dxva_nohddecode 0 to get acceleration, but that doesn't work for Bluray mpeg2.

vega22

08-31-07, 05:37 PM

I watch a lot of Live TV, SD mpeg2, both film and video. Xp, latest Cyberlink mpeg2 decoder, vmr9. BTW, my display (LCD DVI/HDMI via) is calibrated for contract 0-255 to 16-235 video levels. The PAL mpeg2 thing says that the Ati will deinterlace like video the film in my setup ¿ok? But I can manually force to cyberlink decoder to use film instead of video deinterlace through HA. This has some effect?

EDIT. Sorry, is a stupid question. The Ati is she herself the mpeg2 decoder. Still I think with purevideo1 mentality.

arfster

08-31-07, 05:41 PM

But I can manually force to cyberlink decoder to use film instead of video deinterlace through HA. This has some effect?

Yes, that works.

I might be out of date on the film thing, you never know, haven't tested for a bit. It didn't make much difference anyway, cos the deinterlacers have so much to work with the picture is barely affected.

vega22

08-31-07, 06:07 PM

Yes, that works.

Ok. It is a lightening. I was almost totally convinced that this would not affect anything.
Perhaps it is necessary to indicate a more bug: in PAL we cannot correct the overscan.

arfster

08-31-07, 06:39 PM

Ok. It is a lightening. I was almost totally convinced that this would not affect anything.
Perhaps it is necessary to indicate a more bug: in PAL we cannot correct the overscan.

You mean the 720p 50hz thing?

Rick Guynn

08-31-07, 06:53 PM

What renderers and settings do people here use? In Vista I stick to VMR9 and EVR. If I went with another, it would probably be Haali. I was thinking I might install XP for some testing over the holiday weekend. So aside from VMR7, is there anything else I should try? Renderers or settings still seem the most likely reason why others didn't get the same results as my 7.7 and 7.9 Vista installs.

Looking at http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=494606 this appears to be only a concern for analog and a non-issue for digital.

Rick Guynn probably had the right initial idea of wanting to maintain studio (16-235) levels. In the above guide it's repeated to do so a number of times. In considering if I might want to use 0-255 it sounds like it could quite possibly introduce some problems the way the ATI is working, so I expect to stick with 16-235 for video. I still don't think there should be so many changes need as he was reporting though, so I might check things out on XP while I have it installed. That's why I'm asking for renderers and settings, because aside from using overlay (which runs horribly on my computer) I've never been able to replicate any of the problems that were previously reported with black-levels not matching.

Yeah, it's really not that much trouble. Now that I have it set up, it's just a matter of a hotkey. I switch back and forth between my monitor and a projector anyway, so having hotkeys set up is no big deal. I'd rather have the proper video levels and deal with the slight inconvenience.

Oh, and I am currently using the VMR9 windowless version of the renderer. I'd use FSE, but I like having a UI.

vega22

08-31-07, 09:01 PM

You mean the 720p 50hz thing?
I have forgotten if the people who reported this issue spoke of 720/50p or both, 720/50p and 1080/50p.
I have a problem very seemed with my 8800GTS. With a trick I can correct overscan in 720/50p and 1080/50p, but it is much more difficult to obtain this that in 60Hz. In addition, with this trick I lose HDCP compatibility.

Andy o

09-01-07, 04:57 AM

Rick Guynn

09-01-07, 08:52 AM

Hey guys, the promotional trailer for HD-DVD in the Batman Returns and Corpse Bride HD-DVDs (begins with a blue screen and "Everything you know about DVD just got a whole lot better...") is actually 0-255 as far as I can tell. Meaning that with ATI cards (including my x1900GT) you lose detail as it is expanded. Testing a bit, I think you can just bring back the detail by messing with the video controls, though I'm not 100% sure.

With my nVidia 8600GTS setup in Vista x86 that video actually looks 0-255, without any messing with the video settings. The black bars for the clips of movies in 2.35:1 ratio are black, not gray. If I turn on the calibration that I've made for regular movies (i.e. my own expansion) then I clearly lose detail in the dark areas, the same as with the default settings with the ATI in my other PC.

So what's the deal? Is there any possibility that some movies might actually come in 0-255? Anyone knows?

I stand (sit actually) to be corrected, but all video is 'technically' 0-255. It's just that 'standard' video puts most of it's information between 16-235. If have seen analysis in the past showing that alot of video still has BTB and WTW information in the signal outside of the 16-235 range, hence the existence of these types of fields in the calibration software.

The loss of that information is what I have been discussing here with Arfster and AR.

tencom

09-01-07, 09:58 AM

Is it normal for the visiontek 2400Pro AGP card ar start-up to show a need for a PCI driver and lists the location of the AGP card? I tried with two computers and both showed the same need for a PCI driver. The computers both use AMD processors and does not occur after I reinstalled the previoius AGP boards.

imzkng

09-01-07, 10:01 AM

Haven't found the answer to this in this thread, but why is it I can't get accelerated HDDVD playback in PowerDVD with any of the tweaked drivers except for the tweaked 7.7 version? Using 2600 pro with latest PowerDVD Ultra on Vista 32

Thanks, John

vega22

09-01-07, 10:11 AM

wozio

09-01-07, 10:49 AM

The latter: ati converts 16-235 to 0-255. This is correct behaviour in PC world, not really correct or good in TV, video world.

Anyway can be corrected easily.

arfster

09-01-07, 11:05 AM

It´s obvious necessary that the decoder runs to 0-255 levels, where 16 is gray black and 235 is gray white. The display must be able to work to 0-255 levels, but must be calibrated for make the conversion 16->0 black level and 235->255 white level, creating the levels BTB and WTW. This is the ONLY correct way ¿ok?

The correct way is a matter of dispute on PCs, but I look at it like this: the original video is in 16-235, where 16 is full black, 235 is full white, and anything outside that is not intended to be seen. If you connect a DVD player/tivo/Bluray to your TV, it will not expand this, it will just send it straight through in 16-235.

For PCs, some people like an expansion to 0-255, because that's what the rest of the desktop uses, which particularly matters for photos and so on. However, doing this expansion _automatically_ is, in my opionion at least, completely idiotic, especially for cards that are quite obviously aimed at the HTPC market.

I have not understood well yet if the ATI, in HD, runs at the 0-255 video levels (correct) or make the conversion 16->0/235->255 (ones call to this expansion, other contraction and becomes confused) Somebody can clarify it?

The official Vista drivers do this:

HD: original is 16-235, but it's expanded automatically to 0-255. There is absolutely nothing you can do about this.

SD: original is 16-235, it is not expanded.

Thus you have different levels for SD and HD - in practice this means they have considerably different contrast and brightness, so one will look fine, and the other will look terrible.

The only way to make this consistent is by setting the registry value usebt601csc to 1, which expands SD also - this is what my tweaked 79 drivers do. You then have both SD and HD at 0-255, or you can reverse the expansion via brightness16, contrast86 in CCC, which would bring them both back to 16-235.

Rick: yes, anything outside 16-235 is lost in the expansion. Ideally we'd have no expansion at all (or at least optional), but from all the tests I've done it's not making any difference. Perhaps the scaling/deinterlacing these days is good enough it doesn't need any beyond-black or beyond-white.

RichB

09-01-07, 11:22 AM

Rick: yes, anything outside 16-235 is lost in the expansion. Ideally we'd have no expansion at all (or at least optional)

Precisely why this is a bad idea. I am running with a 2600Pro and you can see from the HD DVE that they whites and blacks are crushed. I did not set my TV for anything special so I think this may cause problems more often than not.

- Rich

arfster

09-01-07, 11:28 AM

Precisely why this is a bad idea. I am running with a 2600Pro and you can see from the HD DVE that they whites and blacks are crushed.

Sure, but it's only crushing anything outside (original) 16-235, which isn't intended to be seen anyway.

I did some SD tests with screenshots of original DVD material, then the same expanded by usebt601csc and recontracted by CCC 16/86, and the two look the same if you flick between them. Checking pixels there are minute changes, but even zooming in and flicking between the two, I couldn't see the difference despite knowing exactly where the different pixel was.

Obviously I can't do an identical test with HD because there's no option to stop expansion in the first place, but 75% colour ramps show it's maintaining the values in the same way.

pochoboy

09-01-07, 11:35 AM

this thread is HUGE, my apologies if this was asked and responded to previously

What software do you use to check hardware acceleration when viewing video files?

wozio

09-01-07, 11:58 AM

I did some SD tests with screenshots of original DVD material, then the same expanded by usebt601csc and recontracted by CCC 16/86, and the two look the same if you flick between them. Checking pixels there are minute changes, but even zooming in and flicking between the two, I couldn't see the difference despite knowing exactly where the different pixel was.
As far as I understant this is one of the rare things done correctly in drivers. Levels expansion is done in the same step as ProcAmp (which you can control in CCC or in VMR9 configuration dialog). Thats why no detail is lost during this reverting.

topcaser

09-01-07, 12:03 PM

STEP 1 – REGISTRY CHANGE
You can use the modified drivers from #1709 onward, or take the risk yourself and manually make the related change in HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Video\{V ideo Card GUID}\0000\UMD\DXVA\ adding the string value UseBT601CSC set to 1.

Folders UMD and DXVA does not exist in my XP environment. All other tweaks are done in 0000 directly. Are you sure to create new key-folders?

vega22

09-01-07, 12:20 PM

The official Vista drivers do this:

HD: original is 16-235, but it's expanded automatically to 0-255. There is absolutely nothing you can do about this.

SD: original is 16-235, it is not expanded.

Yes, the different treatment for SD and HD was already clear. Nevertheless, now is when I understand what makes ATI with the HD: it turns 16->0 and 235->255, clipping WTW and BTB, just as it does the classic overlay. Good idea for a display calibrated for PC use. Bad idea for a display calibrated for Cinema use. Mmmm...
the original video is in 16-235, where 16 is full black, 235 is full white, and anything outside that is not intended to be seen. If you connect a DVD player/tivo/Bluray to your TV, it will not expand this, it will just send it straight through in 16-235.
More correct it would be to say: original video is in 0-255, where 16 is treated like 0 output IRE and 235 like 100 output IRE. In fact i must not have said that my TV is fit to turn 16->0, but fit to treat 16 like 0 Ire, which causes that it does not need two calibrations to see video from the PC or from a standalone player. Only one detailing, I believe that already we have understood all what we mean each one

Andy o

09-01-07, 02:08 PM

this thread is HUGE, my apologies if this was asked and responded to previously

What software do you use to check hardware acceleration when viewing video files?

What do you wanna check? Riva Tuner works with the new ATI cards to check the GPU % and temps, but the latest CCC also does this, albeit very primitively, so it's probably better to still use Riva Tuner. Alas, the nVidia cards don't report GPU %, I haven't found a program that can extract this info from them.

stanger89

09-01-07, 02:19 PM

More correct it would be to say: original video is in 0-255, where 16 is treated like 0 output IRE and 235 like 100 output IRE.

Perhaps, but convention (here at least, probably elsewhere) is to use the terminology "16-235" to refer to ITU-R standard video levels (1-254 range with 16 nominal black and 235 nominal white).

However I must point out that IRE has no meaning in digital context, IRE is a relative measurement of voltage. In the US 0 IRE means 0 Vdc, and 100 IRE mean 716 mVdc.

vega22

09-01-07, 03:26 PM

Perhaps, but convention (here at least, probably elsewhere) is to use the terminology "16-235" to refer to ITU-R standard video levels (1-254 range with 16 nominal black and 235 nominal white).
Of course. That is the terminology, but I talked about to which this means behind the words, so that this subject does not confuse more.
BTW, I´m convinced that Ati will fix the HD bug very soon. It´s a very anti-marketing bug.

EDIT: behind the words...and behind the digital context

stanger89

09-01-07, 03:41 PM

alluringreality

09-01-07, 04:12 PM

Folders UMD and DXVA does not exist in my XP environment. All other tweaks are done in 0000 directly. Are you sure to create new key-folders?

Really that's written for Vista. I was guessing that XP worked similarly. I now have an XP install saved on True Image, but I seem to get similar results to what Rick Guynn was saying.

First off it appears that the Avivo Video picture controls in CCC do not work like Vista. I was just trying to get back to 16-235 in XP by only the registry change and the CCC avivo settings, but I couldn't get it to happen. It didn't quickly look like a Dword or string in the 0000 and 0001 changed anything. If it did, then the Avivo Video setting still doesn't seem to work the same as Vista. I think Rick was using player setting to get back to studio levels, so you might read what he was changing if you're looking for a workaround.

vega22

09-01-07, 04:25 PM

My only point is, if you start calling 16-235, 0-255 it will just cause more confusion, and calling 16-235 "0-255 with black at 16 and white at 235" is just overly wordy and isn't any less ambiguous than 16-235.
I use and i´m going to continue using the expression 16-235 to talk about video levels. The other is the concepts that I think simultaneously that I speak, not to forget that life beyond the 16 and of the 235 exists, although we do not see it…BTB and WTW are like aliens...:eek:;)

madshi

09-01-07, 06:13 PM

I''ve found a little more detail about expansion not happening btw. Turns out it's not hardware acceleration in VMR9 that causes expansion, it's mixer mode. You can stop it expanding by disabling this in VMR9 renderless (not possible in VMR9 windowed I think). This disables all color controls in CCC as well, so looks like it's basically screwing the routine within the drivers that causes >720 to be expanded. Quite possibly zoomplayer or others might not have this on by default.

ps MPC allows you to disable VMR9 mixermode. In graphedit mixermode is not used for standard VMR9 (so no expansion), but you can enable it by going to procamp under vmr9 settings, moving any of the sliders, then defaulting them back. Similarly, the CCC colour controls don't work until you do this, because you're not in mixermode yet.
Hmmmm... I've different results on my XP machine with a 2600Pro, Catalyst 7.8 and MPC. It makes no difference for me if I disable the mixermode or not. I'm always having expansion, regardless of settings. The CCC brightness/contrast controls only work for me with Overlay and in VMR7 windowed mode. They do not work in any VMR9 mode (I tried every possible combination) and they also don't work in VMR7 renderless. I've tried both ffdshow software decoder and Cyberlink h264 hardware accelerated decoding. Makes no difference for me.

So currently I didn't find any way to get rid of the expansion... :(

fallenturtle

09-01-07, 06:17 PM

I propose the death penalty for codec packs creator.... :)

To be fair, we'll have to get a DNA sample from the codec pack.

Anyway, which is the last version of cyberlink h.264 direct show filter knew to fully support new ati 2x00 series or nvidia 8x000.
thanks a lot.

I'm not sure what you're asking. Do you mean the most recent or the first version of PowerDVD to support the h.264 filter with Avivo? I think its been part of PowerDVD since they started supporting bluray and HD DVD.

arfster

09-01-07, 06:28 PM

Hmmmm... I've different results on my XP machine with a 2600Pro, Catalyst 7.8 and MPC. It makes no difference for me if I disable the mixermode or not. I'm always having expansion, regardless of settings. The CCC brightness/contrast controls only work for me with Overlay and in VMR7 windowed mode.

Oh, that's a shame :-( Does usebt606csc=1 affect SD?

I guess your only option is to complain to ATI their colour controls are broken. It's unusual that XP drivers are buggier than Vista though, it's normally the other way round.

RichB

09-01-07, 10:14 PM

Of course. That is the terminology, but I talked about to which this means behind the words, so that this subject does not confuse more.
BTW, I´m convinced that Ati will fix the HD bug very soon. It´s a very anti-marketing bug.

Do you have inside information that a Fix is coming?

- Rich

mojo_lo

09-02-07, 12:36 AM

i posted this in an nvidia thread, but thought i'd take it direct to ATI 2x00 owners.

one of the problems plaguing some of us today is the HW acceleration of h264/x264 encoded matroska (.mkv) files. the problem lies in the fact that the PowerDVD decoder will not accelerate .mkv's.

A tomshardware review (http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/07/24/hd_2600_and_geforce_8600/page8.html) compared CPU utilization between an ATI 2600 and an Nvidia 8600, and found that ATI's UVD performed well with HA via Intervideo while Nvidia's VP2 did not.

Does anyone know if you can get HA of h264/x264 .mkv files using the Intervideo decoder and an ATI 2x00?

edit: seems that WinDVD is not very well thought of due to its bugs so perhaps this is not a solution afterall.

pochoboy

09-02-07, 03:33 AM

What do you wanna check? Riva Tuner works with the new ATI cards to check the GPU % and temps, but the latest CCC also does this, albeit very primitively, so it's probably better to still use Riva Tuner. Alas, the nVidia cards don't report GPU %, I haven't found a program that can extract this info from them.

Thank for the response

madshi

09-02-07, 04:47 AM

Oh, that's a shame :-( Does usebt606csc=1 affect SD?
I haven't tried yet because I've stopped watching any SD content. So all I need is proper HD playback.

I guess your only option is to complain to ATI their colour controls are broken. It's unusual that XP drivers are buggier than Vista though, it's normally the other way round.
Should I post another bug report? Or is there a possibility to add my "vote" to an already existing bug report?

arfster

09-02-07, 05:58 AM

Should I post another bug report? Or is there a possibility to add my "vote" to an already existing bug report?

If your previous one was about HD expansion, I'd say post another - colour controls are a separate issue.

Sarvatt

09-02-07, 09:51 AM

by all means post another bug report about any issues you have until they fix it, only way the crap will get fixed :D they always respond to my reports saying stuff like i'm the only one reporting it so its not a problem widespread enough to get immediate attention..

vega22

09-02-07, 10:11 AM

Do you have inside information that a Fix is coming?

- Rich

No, only the market logic guides me. 2600/24000 are not gamers card. My 8800GTS 320M is even weak for actual games to actual resolutions. Its market is the HTPC. Any problem of levels is very serious for HTPC. The famous problem of the VMRCCCSStatus in Nvidia made run red rivers, and was a less important problem, because it was the inverse problem. Perhaps by the subject Vmrccc Ati has chosen these default settings for its drivers, but thanks to forums like this one, will be noticed of their error. It is only my hope, because I am wishing to buy the MSI HD2600xt Diamond.

EDIT they always respond to my reports saying stuff like i'm the only one reporting it so its not a problem widespread enough to get immediate attention.. This makes me lose that hope :mad:

rlee777

09-02-07, 10:20 AM

Upgrading from a 7600GS for my Vista Media Center. After installing the 7.8 Catalyst and Avivo converter, I set the decoder using DECCHECK and VMCD as suggested here. Works wonderfully, except for an annoying issue with FF/REW button not working anymore in Media Center. Does anyone have a fix?

BTW, I am using a dual monitor setup and the HD 2600PRO will render smooth video on the secondary monitor -- something that the 7600GS could not do.

Linalool

09-02-07, 11:04 AM

Has anyone had any problems with their HDMI audio and powerstrip? I have a 2400XT using Catalyst 7.8 and XP. When powerstrip is not installed, I get sound through HDMI. When it is installed there is no sound. While windows is booting up I hear the first few seconds of the windows start music. Then powerstrip applies a custom resolution and refesh rate and the start music stops and I get no sound.

antonio_car

09-02-07, 11:30 AM

Has anyone had any problems with their HDMI

Same problem if I apply a custom refresh , 1280x720 59,94.
Works if I use 50/60 refresh , CCC or Powerstrip.
HD2600XT GDDR3 Sapphire , Onkyo TX-SR875.

alluringreality

09-02-07, 11:47 AM

I haven't tried yet because I've stopped watching any SD content. So all I need is proper HD playback.

I think that some media playback programs offer hardware color control like the Catalyist Avivo Video settings offer in Vista. In KMPlayer it's clearly spelled out that way, but I think other programs do the exact same thing. In http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11457253#post11457253 I think that's what he was doing to get back to studio levels (16-235). He later said http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11487289#post11487289 so my thinking is that for XP users, changing hardware color controls in your media playback software seems like the best option to get back to 16-235.

alluringreality

09-02-07, 11:50 AM

Then powerstrip applies a custom resolution and refesh rate and the start music stops and I get no sound.

Once you have defined a custom resolution, you can uninstall powerstrip if you don't need it to move the picture. On my TV I just use powerstrip to define the resolution then uninstall it.

Linalool

09-02-07, 12:16 PM

Once you have defined a custom resolution, you can uninstall powerstrip if you don't need it to move the picture. On my TV I just use powerstrip to define the resolution then uninstall it.

Thanks alluringreality. I will try this. But I was hoping to use Reclock with Powerstrip to set my HDTV to 48Hz for HDDVD/Blu-Ray, 50Hz for PAL DVDs and 60Hz for NTSC DVDs. Can anyone suggest a solution?

alluringreality

09-02-07, 12:44 PM

I'm just guessing now, but isn't it possible to change frequency with either CCC's profiles and hotkeys or ATI tray tools? I'm not familiar with PAL, but if you can do 48HZ for HD then why wouldn't you also use it for NTSC film DVDs? Isn't it possible to get rid of the whole 3:2 bit and get back to 24 frames with NTSC DVDs too?

madshi

09-02-07, 12:56 PM

KillerSVTfocus

09-02-07, 06:52 PM

I have the ATI radeon HD 2600XT and am having a serious problem since I installed the card my audio output from all connectors on the PC has stopped. The card is suppossed to support HDMI sound output with the included dongle and when I go to the sound panel the HDMI option for sound output doesn't even show up. I have an HP m7330n and would love any thoughts on a cause. Thanks

DJ79

09-02-07, 09:48 PM

Remember the macroblocking corruption (see here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11252168#post11252168)) that I posted about earlier? Nobody mentioned anything about that lately, and I was wondering how the other members were dealing with it. I was just about to disable hardware decoding (the HWUVD_DisableVC1 key), when I though I might check if there was a firmware update on MSI's global site, and there it was, released on 8/28. And yes, it did resolve the issue.

Unfortunately, now I'm noticing sparklies over my 50' DVI cable, and ATI Overdrive shows 600 MHz while idling instead of 110 MHz as before the update. I'll try to underclock it to test if these are related. I'll probably move it over to my desktop again to see if the update resolved the other issues with this board, which is blue screens, mouse freezes, vpu recovers, and such.

topcaser

09-02-07, 11:37 PM

Hi,

i have connected two monitors to my Palit 2600xt. I use for both a DVI connection. Both are recognized from CCC and show the correct name. I have created three profiles in CCC: For each single monitor usage one and for using both at the same time in extended mode. But: If i have operated monitor 1 and switch on monitor 2, i activate the dual monitor profile - but the settings are not recovered. I have got a certain adjustment of the monitors, different resolutions and that kind of stuff. But nothing is recovered from the profile.

The same is, when i operate monitor 1 and want to switch off this monitor, but switch on monitor 2: I want to activate the profile of monitor 2 to get this working and, with that, monitor 1 is disabled. This also dont work at all. The monitors are not switched at all.

Is there another good profile manager out there, or can i solve these problems??

topcaser

09-02-07, 11:44 PM

Once you have defined a custom resolution, you can uninstall powerstrip if you don't need it to move the picture. On my TV I just use powerstrip to define the resolution then uninstall it.

That is right for the resolution, but not for the frequency. My monitor is able to playback @75Hz@highest res (this is advertised) but dont shows that frequency in CCC. But: If i use Powerstrip it is possible to adjust....

topcaser

09-03-07, 03:33 PM

Can someone post a howto for XP users how we can get rid of the clipping problem? @Rick: Sorry, i have not understand the post how did you get rid of the problem...

roosterx

09-03-07, 05:54 PM

In case you havent noticed, there is a new official bios update for Asus eah2600xt series using Samsung ram on Asus download section.

I've updated my card, but havent had the time for testing to see if there is any stability changes.

DJ79: I too seem to have lost the auto underclock feature, though i havent tried to uninstall CCC or re install windows, i think i'll try that when Ati's new official CCC drivers appear later this month.

Rick Guynn

09-03-07, 10:42 PM

Can someone post a howto for XP users how we can get rid of the clipping problem? @Rick: Sorry, i have not understand the post how did you get rid of the problem...

I am not sure why the color controls in the CCC don;t do it, it may have somethign to do with ZoomPlayer Overriding CCC. At any rate, if you have a player with color controls (even PowerDVDs controls seem to work) then you should be able to do what AR and Alfster have been talking about.

What I did was to use Paint.net (any image editing program that can analyze pixel colors will work) and Zoomplayer. Then I used the file that Arfster posted up, which is high-def greyscale ramp and started doing a little bit of an iterative process. I take a snapshot, examine it in Paint.net. Depending on what the values are at what is supposed to be video black (16) and video white (235), I use the color controls within ZoomPlayer to adjust contrast (white level) and brightness (black level) depending on whther what I read in Paint.net was high or low. Repeat this process until your values read in Paint.net are 16 and 236 for black and white.

Then I use the patterns in DVE (specifically Title 12, chapter 2 I think) to adjust the desktop brightness value according to the instructions (basically until the -4% bar disappears and you can barely see the +2% bar). Then I go back to the ramp patter (chapter 12 or 14 I think) and adjust desktop contrast until the video white is about equal to the adjacent bar (whiter than white) and back off a couple of steps so that it is distinctly different then that bar.

I set this desktop configuration up as a profile in CCC and hotkey it with ctrl+alt+v for when I am want to watch video. Otherwise I have another 'normal' profile set up with a hotkey of ctrl+alt+d. So I can easily switch back and forth.

The only other 'special' thing would be to use the 'UseBT..." (I don;t remember the whole key name) thing mentioned earlier in the thread. This causes SD to expand just as HD does so you don;t have to have multiple color profiles set up in your app as well as desktop profiles.

That's the best that I can explain it.

topcaser

09-04-07, 01:46 AM

dexx

09-04-07, 02:16 AM

Further to my earlier post about not getting any output to my projector from my 2600pro card. Ive found that when i use a 3 metre cable between the DVI or HDMI outputs on the 2600 and my projector's hdmi input, it works fine. But when using my 10 metre cable i get nothing - not even a bios post screen. This 10m cable works fine with my old 6600gt card. I can only conclude that the signal levels on the dvi and hdmi 2600pro outputs are so low that the projector doesnt recognise them once they get through the longer cable.

one_2go

09-04-07, 05:26 AM

Rick, thanks for this guide. Have understand now in principle. But: what is DVE?
DVE = Digital Video Essentials a disc that helps you calibrate your video & sound system. There is a NTSC, PAL and HD version.

dastrong

09-04-07, 05:53 AM

Just to let you know. Someone has alerted me to the fact that on 24th August Microsoft released an EVR patch for jerky playpack in Windows Vista with Interlacing enabled. I have not installed the fix yet but it does replace the EVR dll with a newer version.

indecision

09-04-07, 12:51 PM

I have had a PC in my theater for a couple of years for home automation applications. I am ready to start using the computer for some DVD playback. I am interested in the ATI cards because of the lower CPU usage on my machine.

I have been following this thread for weeks and have read every post, but it has made me scared to pull the trigger and order a card (proably the 2600pro). I am really only worried about SD DVD playback for now but will add HDDVD/Blu-Ray playback over the next 6 months. Is the ATI the right choice for me?

By the way, I know that Arfster released a set of 7.9 based drivers for Vista, but is there a set of tweaked 7.9 drivers for XP?

I really appreciate all the great information!

sarah99

09-04-07, 01:59 PM

My Sapphire 2400pro is going back
Had enough of the video line tearing and constant VPU crash and recovers

topcaser

09-04-07, 02:53 PM

A stupid question: Is this the color clipping problem?

intence posted it in thread number 482 (see attachment)

this is what i get and it is very annoying... It is only in red colors. How can i get rid of it?

http://mysite.verizon.net/texneus/temp/Compare.jpg

Sassha

09-04-07, 02:57 PM

Rick Guynn

09-04-07, 05:29 PM

Rick, thanks for this guide. Have understand now in principle. But: what is DVE?

And in principal: I have read that nvidia had similar problems in their product a long time ago, but have fixed it in the newer generation. Do you think it is a driver thing or may it implemented in hardware and can not be fixed?

It's definitely a driver issue. Whether they will get fixed or not... who knows?

This workaround seems fine. It's funny that I was ignorant of the issue when using ZoomPlayer, and now I can't believe I was watching my recorded HD like that. Watching HD on PDVD was never a problem, because using the color controls in there seems to accomplish the same thing as I ended up doing with ZoomPlayer.

millerbrad

09-04-07, 10:41 PM

Hi guys! I need help...i think this is the best place to get it. I have a ATI Radeon HD 2600Pro, i installed it,PC monitor is connected to one DVI,all fine, on second DVI with DVI-HDMI cable I connected my HDTV LCD Phillips PF3321, and its not recronised by card,CCC,if i force to detect it on LCD i get No input signal like before(cables checked), i have latest drivers,iam on XP SP2. I had no problems with my previous card Radeon 9600. What could it be,please help! :(

Starting with the 7.8 drivers, I've only been able to get the DVI-to-HDMI conversion to work on the first DVI port.

Either try swapping your plugs to different DVI ports on the card, or possibly go back to the 7.7 drivers.

Sassha

09-05-07, 06:58 AM

Starting with the 7.8 drivers, I've only been able to get the DVI-to-HDMI conversion to work on the first DVI port.

Either try swapping your plugs to different DVI ports on the card, or possibly go back to the 7.7 drivers.

I tried,still no luck. Maybe i have to give it try with PowerStrip,to lock output resolution to 1024x768 since my HDTV accept only this resolution from computer? It accept video resolution up to 1080i, but computer resolution up to 1024x768,stupid,but my HD movies looked excelent thru my last card Radeon 9600.

EDIT:

From Manual:

Computers formats:
- Resolution (640 x 480) Refresh rate (60, 67, 72, 75Hz)
- Resolution (800 x 600) Refresh rate (56, 60, 72, 75Hz)
- Resolution (1024 x 768) Refresh rate (60, 67, 72, 75Hz)

Video formats:
- Resolution (640 x 480p) Refresh rate (2Fh)
- Resolution (720 x 576p) Refresh rate (2Fh)
- Resolution (1280 x 720p) Refresh rate (3Fh)
- Resolution (1920 x 1080i) Refresh rate (2Fh)

topcaser

09-05-07, 09:33 AM

madshi

09-05-07, 10:12 AM

Colorvibrance and co are already zero...
Have you already modified all those registry keys like TRDenoise etc?

RichB

09-05-07, 11:10 AM

Ball

09-05-07, 11:18 AM

Hey, does no one know an answer of the problem? In another forum one posted, he had never seen that at his 2600xt

Colorvibrance and co are already zero...

Here is another shot of the problem

http://www.dvbviewer.info/forum/uploads/monthly_09_2007/post-34555-1188994256_thumb.jpg

I had the same problem with a Saphire 2600XT and the MSI passive 2600pro. I tired CCC 7.7 and 7.8. Everything looked fine in media player and VLC - just Media Center had the issue. I was using the ATI DVD decoder and switched to Nvida and the problem was STILL there. As a last resort I turned off Hardware Acceleration in the Nvida control panel and it's gone. ?

Seems that Media Center and Media Player using different settings for hardware acceleration. The ATI decoder has no UI to select or deselected these things so of course I couldn't try (unless there's a reg setting I don't know about).

Anyway it may not be the best "fix" but it works. The downside is higher CPU usage especially while watching an HD broadcast.

Sassha

09-05-07, 12:27 PM

I tried,still no luck. Maybe i have to give it try with PowerStrip,to lock output resolution to 1024x768 since my HDTV accept only this resolution from computer? It accept video resolution up to 1080i, but computer resolution up to 1024x768,stupid,but my HD movies looked excelent thru my last card Radeon 9600.

EDIT:

From Manual:

Computers formats:
- Resolution (640 x 480) Refresh rate (60, 67, 72, 75Hz)
- Resolution (800 x 600) Refresh rate (56, 60, 72, 75Hz)
- Resolution (1024 x 768) Refresh rate (60, 67, 72, 75Hz)

Video formats:
- Resolution (640 x 480p) Refresh rate (2Fh)
- Resolution (720 x 576p) Refresh rate (2Fh)
- Resolution (1280 x 720p) Refresh rate (3Fh)
- Resolution (1920 x 1080i) Refresh rate (2Fh)

Updated to Win Vista....same problem...CCC dont detect my HD LCD...:confused: pLEASE hELP!

fanbanlo

09-05-07, 03:24 PM

why would one consider 2400 when it scores so low in HQV?

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3047&p=3

topcaser

09-05-07, 04:13 PM

Have you already modified all those registry keys like TRDenoise etc?

TRDenoise is set to zero and yes, it is set to 32 bit. Had the same suspicion.

Have reanimated my Vista partition and the problem is gone under Vista. Then i have loaded the video in WMP in XP and had also no problems. will analyze the graph tomorrow.

But it is really annoying...

dfq23

09-05-07, 04:20 PM

Got a HIS 2400 pro and have the ATI DVI-HDMI adaptor. I have installed the ATI HDMI drivers, selected the ATI HDMI option in control panel and also disabled onboard sound but still nothing. Vista says that its working but it isnt.

I have seen a lot of people with this prob on this thread but there doesnt't seem to have been a definitive answer.

Please can someone help me?

mistermci

09-05-07, 07:43 PM

it seems like randomly the card just shuts off..and then a couple seconds later turns back on..what is going on here..is there any fix for this?

alex.ba

09-06-07, 03:55 AM

I was just looking for the MSI Firmware Update on the Global Website but didn't find anything. Do I only get the latest firmware 28/8 by using live Update or where can I get it.

Another question regarding the RegHacks. I use the latest driver from Artsfer (Thank you for this :-) ). For LiveTV I use The DVBViewer in the latest version 3.8. I can switch there betweeen VMR7 / VMR9 and Overlay. Normally I use the Overlay or VMR9 but with this 2600 Card the quality is very poor. Only when I use the VMR7 the quality is excellent. Does somebody here know the reason. I mean I have never used the VMR7 before. Is that just a bug by the DVBViewer. Can someone help please?

Thanks a lot

Alex

Sassha

09-06-07, 04:29 AM

Updated to Win Vista....same problem...CCC dont detect my HD LCD...:confused: pLEASE hELP!

Found a problem. Problem was in cable lenght,anyway, PC in my room is connected with 10m DVI-HDMI cable to HD LCD in livingroom,i think card has a "low output signal" or so, because when I connect PC to HDTV with 1.5m cable..boom..i get picture! I cant belive that's was a problem,that sucks,I got to move my PC to living room everytime I want watch a HD movie. :mad: ATI,ATI....:mad:

davidoff1204

09-06-07, 06:19 AM

Found a problem. Problem was in cable lenght,anyway, PC in my room is connected with 10m DVI-HDMI cable to HD LCD in livingroom,i think card has a "low output signal" or so, because when I connect PC to HDTV with 1.5m cable..boom..i get picture! I cant belive that's was a problem,that sucks,I got to move my PC to living room everytime I want watch a HD movie. :mad: ATI,ATI....:mad:
What is your graphic card ? With the dongle and an hdmi/hdmi cable it rules, but when i use a 10m DVI-HDMI cable i haven't signal too:(

Sassha

09-06-07, 08:03 AM

What is your graphic card ? With the dongle and an hdmi/hdmi cable it rules, but when i use a 10m DVI-HDMI cable i haven't signal too:(

My card is 2600Pro. Wait a minute,U're saying that i should use DVI-HDMI adapter,and then 10m HDMI-HDMI cabel and then it should work?:confused:

davidoff1204

09-06-07, 10:25 AM

My card is 2600Pro.
Which one ? Sapphire ?

Wait a minute,U're saying that i should use DVI-HDMI adapter,and then 10m HDMI-HDMI cabel and then it should work?:confused:
I works for me.

Sassha

09-06-07, 11:24 AM

Which one ? Sapphire ?

PowerColor. MUST be ATI's adapter??

topcaser

09-06-07, 12:05 PM

Hi, just want to ask you guys what do you think about that: I have submitted a ticket regarding profile switching. Here is the text:

have connected two monitors to my Palit 2600xt. I use for both a DVI connection. Both are recognized from CCC and show the correct name. I have created three profiles in CCC: For each single monitor usage one and for using both at the same time in extended mode. But: If i have operated monitor 1 and switch on monitor 2, i activate the dual monitor profile - but the settings are not recovered. I have got a certain adjustment of the monitors, different resolutions and that kind of stuff. But nothing is recovered from the profile.

The same is, when i operate monitor 1 and want to switch off this monitor, but switch on monitor 2: I want to activate the profile of monitor 2 to get this working and, with that, monitor 1 is disabled. This also dont work at all. The monitors are not switched at all.

And here comes the answer from ATI. They recommend to use CCC7.7
What do you think of that?

Follow the instructions for a clean removal and install catalyst 7.7.

Remove old ATI software through the add/remove programs list. Use drivercleaner (http://downloads.guru3d.com/download.php?det=745#download) to remove any traces of ATI and ATI CCC.

Catalyst 7.7
http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat77-xp.html

Think it is time, that they release 7.9

Or is it another sort of stupid answer dont reading the issue at all?

sarah99

09-06-07, 12:19 PM

it seems like randomly the card just shuts off..and then a couple seconds later turns back on..what is going on here..is there any fix for this?

My Sapphire 2400pro returned for VPU crash and recover (shuts off then turns back on) plus line corruption in videos has been tested and pronounced faulty, a replacement should arrive tomorrow. So there is a cure (hopefully) .... return it as faulty.

originalsnuffy

09-06-07, 12:29 PM

From everything I have read...for HDMI to work properly, one must use the ATI HDMI adaptor dongle. DVI to HDMI cables will present issues. I know that the dongle works fine with my system...though temporarily I have gone back to VGA until my new receiver arrives.

Also, it will take some convincing to get me to switch from Arfster's 7.7 mod to anther version from ATI. Every other later version seems to disable the nice customization and clocking features of CCC.

Sassha

09-06-07, 01:22 PM

Hi, just want to ask you guys what do you think about that: I have submitted a ticket regarding profile switching. Here is the text:

And here comes the answer from ATI. They recommend to use CCC7.7
What do you think of that?

Think it is time, that they release 7.9

Or is it another sort of stupid answer dont reading the issue at all?

I was on CCC 7.7, same problem....If I want to get this to work I must buy dongle and HDMI 10m cable ,I think....Thanks for the help everybody!:)

ToughRowToHoe

09-06-07, 04:11 PM

wallydanger

09-06-07, 04:40 PM

I did get the sound working on my system. While I was waiting hear back from ATI, I did a clean install and since that time switching the defaults has worked.

I'm not using an ATI DVI to HDMI adapter because I had no interest in sound over HDMI. Not using the ATI adapter may be the reason behind the weirdness.

I have a couple of questions for you. I need to know about the power requirement for this card. I found only one site that lists that info and it says it needs a 400w or greater power supply. Though I read a comment on Newegg that said, though it was said to need more, it was being run on 250w without any problem.

I've read 100's of posts in this, and another, thread and haven't seen the power requirement mentioned.

I've been to the product website HERE (http://www.sapphiretech.com/us/products/products_overview.php?gpid=185) and found a link to a PDF about (Important Information for Windows XP & Windows Vista users) (http://www.sapphiretech.com/us/productfiles/Catalogue_HDMI_Sound_output.pdf). It sounds as though you figured out how to switch the default for sound output.

I remember reading somewhere about a month ago an article about how the 5.1 audio was able to be outputed thru the DVI port and transmited to the HDMI in the TV. It seemed to me that any cable with DVI to HDMI would work without a special adapter. I hope this to be the case, since I'm thinking of buying this card just for this feature and I want to use the 25' DVI > HDMI cable I already have.

wallydanger

09-06-07, 05:05 PM

ToughRowToHoe

09-06-07, 05:42 PM

I do not have sound over HDMI. I wanted to send it out of my onboard sound. After researching all of this stuff trying to figure out my problem, I understand the following to be true.

The ATI statement that only cards shipped with the adapter can do DVI to HDMI with sound is apparently false. ATI uses a special DVI to HDMI adapter to allow sound over HDMI. If you use this adapter with any ATI HD 2x00 card, you can get sound over your HDMI cable. (Some dual DVI out cards apparently can only send sound over one.)

You cannot use any other non-ATI spec DVI to HDMI adapter or cable. It won't work.

You can order the adapter from the ATI website, or there is apparently an ATI specific PowerColor adapter that NewEgg carries. There are bound to be other retailers with similar adapters as well. ATI had been out of stock on those adapters. I understand they are back in stock.

HDMI will transport 5.1 or PCM stereo. If you can't hear sound and HDMI is selected as default in the Sound applet (and you are using the ATI adapter), you probably are playing one and have the other selected.

My problem may indicate that using any other cables or adapters than the ATI DVI to HDMI on these cards can mess with the sound. Looking at how some other posters have been having problems with long runs of DVI to HDMI cables showing video, I would recommend that only the ATI spec DVI to HDMI adapter be used with these cards. Of course, YMMV.

Beefcake

09-06-07, 06:10 PM

Sassha

09-06-07, 06:13 PM

Sassha

09-06-07, 06:23 PM

Dude.. the 10m cable length with no picture is NOT the card. It's your cable.....you need a pretty darn good cable to go 10m. I would check that first. Given that it does work at 1.5m, that tells me the card is fine.

I just read about monster cable and it ((besides being a ripoff)) is going to start offering different levels of cable to go further distances. I believe the article is over at Anandtech.

-Brian

Cable is fine, i have no problems when i connect same cable to brothers pc with radeon 9600,i get picture on HDTV. I think 2600pro has low output signal or something...weird...9600 is older and i had no problems.

ToughRowToHoe

09-06-07, 06:29 PM

Didn't the cables worked with other cards in both instances? While it is possible, it probably isn't the cable quality in either instance despite the long runs.

jim808

09-06-07, 07:24 PM

After installing the 7.9 vista Biofix drivers I now have sound from my DVI-HDMI cable. Quality sucks, I'm hearing crakling sounds. Anyone else experience this? Have a solution other than buying the adapter. I'm new to this but is there a way to improve standard dvd picture quality? I don't have much HD content at the moment. Thanks

wallydanger

09-06-07, 08:00 PM

I cancelled my order with ATI, because I called newegg customer service and they're shipping me a free one. They carry it under the Powercolor name. here's the item number: N82E16814999004
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814999004

It should be here in 3 days.

Once again newegg comes through.

So, it's been a while. Did you get your adapter yet?

That Powercolor adapter looks a little different from the ATI model. If the Powercolor one works then why wouldn't any adapter work? LIKE THIS ONE. (http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10419&cs_id=1041902&p_id=2029&seq=1&format=2&style=)

Or a DVI>HDMI cable, for that matter? Supposedly there's something extra special about the adapters included with the cards, but I wonder.

This is soooo confusing. Why would it say this:
Note: "This as a replacement to lost or damaged adapters ONLY. It can not be sold separately. This adapter will not enable HDMI through the DVI output of any Radeon™ HD 2000 series board; it will only work if your product was originally shipped with a DVI-HDMI adapter."
on the page under the adapter in question on ATI's site?

I'm wondering if the difference between adapters is about whether they're DVI-D or DVI-I (which is very uncommon for a DVI>HDMI adapter).

mrtbig

09-06-07, 09:05 PM

Looking to purchase a 2600xt and was wondering if there is a best one?
Should I get one with 256 GDDR4 memory or 512 GDDR3 memory?

I want to hook up my pc to my Mitsubishi Projection TV. I probaly will try going HDMI to a HDMI switcher I have installed now and using with my DirecTV and DVD player, since my TV has a DVI connection.

So, which one on the memory is better and is there a best manufacturer such as Saphire, Powercolor or go with ATI.

Thanks in advance for your help!

ToughRowToHoe

09-06-07, 10:17 PM

So, it's been a while. Did you get your adapter yet?

That Powercolor adapter looks a little different from the ATI model. If the Powercolor one works then why wouldn't any adapter work? LIKE THIS ONE. (http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10419&cs_id=1041902&p_id=2029&seq=1&format=2&style=)

Or a DVI>HDMI cable, for that matter? Supposedly there's something extra special about the adapters included with the cards, but I wonder.

This is soooo confusing. Why would it say this:
Note: "This as a replacement to lost or damaged adapters ONLY. It can not be sold separately. This adapter will not enable HDMI through the DVI output of any Radeon™ HD 2000 series board; it will only work if your product was originally shipped with a DVI-HDMI adapter."
on the page under the adapter in question on ATI's site?

I'm wondering if the difference between adapters is about whether they're DVI-D or DVI-I (which is very uncommon for a DVI>HDMI adapter).

Can't say why ATI says sound over HDMI won't work with the other cards. I assume they don't want to support it.

If I recall correctly, it is the ATI website that says why the other adapters don't work. According to whereever I read it, it has to do with the pins. I will try to find the info on that, but I believe it is under ATI Support for the 2900.

I now have one of each adapter. I'll test the pins with an ohm meter to see if to see if there is a difference. I'll also hook up my Sapphire 2400 Pro via HDMI to make sure it works. This card does not ship with the adapter but it does say that it supports sound over HDMI on the packaging.

Edit: I should explain further that the reason I assume that ATI doesn't want to support cards shipping without the adapter has something to do with how the card vendors compensate ATI. I don't really know.

ToughRowToHoe

09-06-07, 10:30 PM

OK, I've found it. It is under Support for all 2x00 boards. I've underlined the operative phrase.

Symptoms:
DVI-HDMI adapter (Part Number: 6141054300G) does not work with some Graphics By ATI Radeon™ HD 2900, Radeon™ HD 2600 and Radeon™ HD 2400 boards.

Solution:
In order to enable HDMI support on the Radeon™ HD 2000 series board through the DVI connector, AMD has designed a unique DVI-HDMI adapter that is only available through certified vendor(s) selected by AMD to authorized partners.

Here is the link:

http://support.ati.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=894

Nils_lars

09-06-07, 11:28 PM

The stuff on ATI site only talks about Vista , does anyone know if the audio over HDMI works on XP?

If so can you explain how you got it to work , my card does not show as a audio decive anywhere.

ToughRowToHoe

09-06-07, 11:49 PM

Nars, there are audio drivers needed for XP. ATI uses the Windows driver in Vista. The audio drivers are here:

http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/hdmiaudio-xp.html

billqs

09-06-07, 11:56 PM

Does anyone have an XP version of Arfster's tweaked drivers? I would really like to try them out but do not have Vista.

ToughRowToHoe

09-07-07, 01:50 AM

It is going to take me a while to check the differences between the DVI to HDMI adapter pins, but I have checked the sound over HDMI. It works fine on the Sapphire 2400 Pro using the ATI adapter.

antonio_car

09-07-07, 02:46 AM

If so can you explain how you got it to work , my card does not show as a audio decive anywhere.

I have a Sapphire HD2600XT GDDR3 and ATI DVI/HDMI adapter is included in the package.
Works in XP , you can try also this driver :
ATI HDMI Audio Device
http://www.realtek.com.tw/downloads/downloadsView.aspx?Langid=1&PNid=14&PFid=24&Level=4&Conn=3&DownTypeID=3&GetDown=false

indieke2

09-07-07, 03:33 AM

I am seriously thinking about giving up, on my Sapphire 2400 pro.

Tried several things now, and I stick to the modified 7.6 drivers posted here a month of so ago. 7.7, is not better.

My biggest issues are:

- Computer crashes easy in 50 an 48 hz mode, using the latest powerstrip. Without powerstrip, no way to enable this anyway.

-Mpeg 2, as well HD as SD, is not as good as with my old Nvidia 7600 card....Could be that with Mpeg 2 the computer crashes also.

In 48 hz, Powerdvd with BD/HDDVD, will not work: blocking, green flashes etc

Am I the only one to have this issue? Is there a sollution, or is something wrong with the card?

In 60 hz, everything plays more or less fine.....Just a few blocks a few time in a HDDVD movie with Pwdvd.

karrih

09-07-07, 04:09 AM

My biggest issues are:

- Computer crashes easy in 50 an 48 hz mode, using the latest powerstrip. Without powerstrip, no way to enable this anyway.

-Mpeg 2, as well HD as SD, is not as good as with my old Nvidia 7600 card....Could be that with Mpeg 2 the computer crashes also.

I have also Sapphire 2400 Pro now, my previous card was MSI 2400 Pro which I returned as I got the feeling that it had some kind of incompatibility with my PC. I am running Catalyst 7.8 and have modified registry entries for trdenoise, dxva_detailenhance, colorvibrance and fleshtone, although not necessarily in a correct manner. PowerDVD Ultra is my codec and player together with DVBViewer.

- I am using 50Hz without powerstrip via TV Out to my old CRT TV and via HDMI to projector. No daily crashes with hw accelerated SD broadcast mpeg2.

- mpeg2 quality is okayish excluding saturated red colors, which sometimes clip very annoyingly (see topcasers posts) and some video content which blinks (often red as well). Some SD material also causes jerky playback (often british productions for some odd reason)

I dont have HD drivers so I cant comment on disc playing, but most of the mpeg4 broadcasts seem to be too much for my setup (AMD 64 3200 in XP). Some of that content can be viewed by using least CPU/GPU consuming options in which case the end result looks fabulous still.

indieke2

09-07-07, 04:18 AM

I am using 50Hz without powerstrip via TV Out to my old CRT TV and via HDMI to projector. No daily crashes with hw accelerated SD broadcast mpeg2, but hw accelerated HD broadcast viewing doesn't work for some reason.

In CC, my Ruby shows up, different refreshrates (like 30 hz) but not 50 hz, if powerstrip is not installed, I wonder why that should be!

karrih

09-07-07, 06:39 AM

In CC, my Ruby shows up, different refreshrates (like 30 hz) but not 50 hz, if powerstrip is not installed, I wonder why that should be!

Yes, I have also seen 50Hz missing totally from options, but then it somehow appears. Most recently I had to select some option in CCC to show 50Hz, but I don't have my PC here now so I can't check what it was right now. It was above selection for forcing TV detection, I believe.

roosterx

09-07-07, 07:18 AM

Yes, I have also seen 50Hz missing totally from options, but then it somehow appears. Most recently I had to select some option in CCC to show 50Hz, but I don't have my PC here now so I can't check what it was right now. It was above selection for forcing TV detection, I believe.

Strange because this works as it should on my Asus x2600xt card(something that did not work on my x1650 card) i can choose from 24Hz, 25iHZ, 29iHZ, 30iHZ, 50Hz, 59Hz and 60HZ, i have only tried the 24Hz option, but that one worked flawless.

Using DVI -> HDMI on a 6meter cable to my 42" LCD TV screen.

jbgoulding

09-07-07, 07:59 AM

My Sapphire 2400pro returned for VPU crash and recover (shuts off then turns back on) plus line corruption in videos has been tested and pronounced faulty, a replacement should arrive tomorrow. So there is a cure (hopefully) .... return it as faulty.
I'm getting this randomly on my Gecube 2400 PRO AGP - but only when it's running at 1080p. The Samsung 1080p TV just loses signal and then comes back again a few seconds later - incredibly frustrating. I cannot get HW acceleration working at 1080p either so I think I stick to 720p until some better drivers come out... I'm running this on an AMD 3200+ so without the HW accel HD-DVD is unusable (perfect in 720p however).

arfster

09-07-07, 10:55 AM

millerbrad

09-07-07, 11:48 AM

New drivers out on ATI site, look to be genuine 7.9s, build 52447. This link might work:

http://support.ati.com/ics/support/KBAnswer.asp?questionID=29459

Might not though, to find it manually go to 2400 or 2600, gaming topic named...

737-29459: ATI Radeon HD 2xxx series: Hotfix for Quake Wars Enemy Territories Demo to improve performance

Funny how it's only the gamers that ever get the driver updates, kinda shows you how low priority HTPC stuff is :-(

It's not all bad. The new Theater drivers in that package reduced the video distortion and whining noise I'd get with any predominantly white screen in NTSC video.

It still won't let me use dual-HDMI, though. What scares me is that I almost suspect that they intentionally disabled this. I tried swapping plugs, and basically, CCC assigns the first device as HDMI, and the second as DVI. If you unplug the first device, it will then reassign the second as HDMI. Then, if you plug the first device back in, it appears as DVI, and the second stays HDMI.

roosterx

09-07-07, 12:01 PM

New drivers out on ATI site, look to be genuine 7.9s, build 52447. This link might work:

http://support.ati.com/ics/support/KBAnswer.asp?questionID=29459

Might not though, to find it manually go to 2400 or 2600, gaming topic named...

737-29459: ATI Radeon HD 2xxx series: Hotfix for Quake Wars Enemy Territories Demo to improve performance

Funny how it's only the gamers that ever get the driver updates, kinda shows you how low priority HTPC stuff is :-(

It's kind of stupid i'd say, i mean the 3d performance of these cards(2400 and 2600) is really bad, and i would guess the majority of those who bought these cards did it for HTPC use.

BTW: Your modified Vista drivers works fine, very good picture quality, though haven't bothered with HW acc, since all of my movies require Haali media splitter.

arfster

09-07-07, 01:06 PM

Had a quick play with the new Vista 7.9, and the only obvious thing is they added a colour temp meter in CCC. Levels expansion is still the same.

Noticed something that was probably there in 7.8: TrDenoise, which defaults to 1 with the standard setup, has a monster hit on performance. With MPEG2 HD and VA deinterlacing forced, my 2600XT is at about 58% or so, but set it to zero and it's at 39%.

On a 2400 that difference could be enormous, but very likely it defaults to 0 for them, otherwise it would completely eat all the GPU power.

|StarscreaM|

09-07-07, 02:43 PM

What is needed in order to enable the AVIVO GPU decoding of h.264 files? I was playing a .MKV file in Windows Media Player 11, and my CPU usage was up at around 80%! I was using Haali's Media Splitter for playback. I'm pretty sure WMP 11 is compatible with AVIVO, but I guess Haali's Media Splitter is not?

Also, what are you guys using to play .MKV files? I tried getting them in to play in PowerDVD by installing Haali's Media Splitter and re-naming the file to .h264 but it still did not work.
Thanks for any help. :)

arfster

09-07-07, 02:56 PM

What is needed in order to enable the AVIVO GPU decoding of h.264 files?

Cyberlink PDVD 7.3, or the decoder that comes with it.

Doesn't work for most mkvs though, because that decoder doesn't like some (apparently common) encoding option of x264.

|StarscreaM|

09-07-07, 03:24 PM

Hmm, gonna have to try something else then.

Is there a list somewhere of all the players and decoders compatible with AVIVO?

arfster

09-07-07, 03:39 PM

The list is one decoder long for h264 :-)

|StarscreaM|

09-07-07, 04:19 PM

The list is one decoder long for h264 :-)

Just the one that comes with PDVD 7.3 I assume? If so, I guess I'm SOL. Is there any place you can download the AVIVO capable h264 decoder and use it on WMP11? Or can I find the decoder somewhere in my installation folder? I have PDVD 7.3, but it will not play .mkv, only WMP11 and VLC will.

All I'm trying to do is get GPU decoding through my 2600XT while playing h.264 .MKV files. Because right now my CPU load is at 90%, and the video playback is VERY poor.

arfster

09-07-07, 05:43 PM

Just the one that comes with PDVD 7.3 I assume? If so, I guess I'm SOL. Is there any place you can download the AVIVO capable h264 decoder and use it on WMP11?

Urrrm, you've got PDVD already you said? Just run WMP and it'll use it.

Or can I find the decoder somewhere in my installation folder? I have PDVD 7.3, but it will not play .mkv, only WMP11 and VLC will.

All I'm trying to do is get GPU decoding through my 2600XT while playing h.264 .MKV files. Because right now my CPU load is at 90%, and the video playback is VERY poor.

Not possible, sorry. The only answer is to mail Cyberlink and ask them to include mkv support.

|StarscreaM|

09-07-07, 06:42 PM

Urrrm, you've got PDVD already you said? Just run WMP and it'll use it.

Not possible, sorry. The only answer is to mail Cyberlink and ask them to include mkv support.

Not even possible if I play the .mkv through WMP11 using the PDVD Cyberlink is it? Since the problem is with the decoder itself not working with most .mkv's, not a problem with the player correct?

mojo_lo

09-07-07, 09:44 PM

correct - the problem is not with the player. you'll experience the same results with all directshow players: WMP, Zoom Player, MPC, etc.

PDVD directshow filter will hardware accelerate some 720P .mkv's, but not all. i'm guessing that there is an x264 setting in some of them that PDVD does not like.

i've been able to use PDVD directshow filter for 1080P x264 .mkv's, but HA doesn't seem to work. PDVD regresses into SW decode mode.

I tried getting them in to play in PowerDVD by installing Haali's Media Splitter and re-naming the file to .h264 but it still did not work.
Thanks for any help. :)

try changing the extension from .mkv to .mp4. sometimes PDVD will be able to play/accelerate them this way. when you install haali, make sure to leave the box ticked to have haali handle .mp4's as well.

IanD

09-07-07, 11:41 PM

Thanks to those who suggested registry tweaks and the 7.7 Catalyst drivers.

After having major problems playing HD-DVD to a 1920x1440p72 VGA monitor with a Gigabyte 8500GT, C2D 2.8GHz under XP (CPU maxed in PowerDVD 2911 Best quality and jaggies in Normal quality because no HA), I changed to a Gigabyte HD2400Pro with 7.7 Catalyst.

Suddenly I can play HD-DVD with HA and 5% CPU.

However:

1. I can not get 72Hz refresh on the Mits 2060u monitor in CCC no matter what I do and 75Hz is the closest, so I get some juddering. This has been a consistent problem with ATI from a 7500 to 9250 to X300 to 2400 and I wish I knew why they prevent 72Hz at HD resolutions as it's supported at all <HD resolutions. Nvidia supported 72Hz straight out of the box for all resolutions, no worries.

2. PQ on the 2400 looks a bit flat compared to the 8500GT. In Best quality mode, the 8500GT produced highly detailed, 3D looking images with great contrast, but the 2400 looks soft in comparison. I've turned detailenhance back on, but it doesn't make any difference. Even playback in MPC looks softer and lacking in punch than what I have experienced with Nvidia.

3. Whilst HD-DVD main feature plays smoothly, if I attempt to play a VC-1 extra (such as a making of featurette), I get a 1fps slideshow. Switching back to the main feature and it's all smooth. Curiously, in windowed mode, playback of the extra is smooth, although I notice combing artifacts. I've tried setting Avivo de-interlace to vector adaptive, right the way down to weave, but it doesn't make any difference to full screen playback. I have PowerDVD set to no deinterlace. I don't seem to have an issue with mpeg2 extras. At first glance, it appears ATI has a problem with interlaced VC-1, but I should probably test other VC-1 extras too. I don't recall the 8500GT having issues.

4. Whenever closing an MPC or PowerDVD window, the desktop flickers and has lots of thin horizontal lines running through it.

5. Before actually playing an HD-DVD title, or switching between title, menus and extras, CPU load jumps to 50%+ and even gets to over 90% briefly, before dropping back to around 5% once the main feature starts playing. It looks like HA is taking a while to implement when switching between elements an