For example, my Vegas shows up as MPCM on my receiver, but it is coded in Dolby? When my friend has his 360 here, my receiver said Dolby. Is PS3 forcing them to MPCM? I know it's better QUALITY, but are the tracks correct?

I know sometimes Dolby>MPCM when it is coded for surround, since MPCM is sometimes just better quality but not coded for all channels.

I was under the impression that MPCM by definition is multiple channels.

I think it would actually be better to output in PCM, since there is no need to encode everything into a bitstream signal.

Right , MPCM is just Multi Channel PCM which is typically going to sound better than lossy DD (there are exceptions however) .

--- Jason

What exceptions? Some people tell me Dolby 5.1 is sometimes better than MPCM if it was coded better. This game was coded in Dolby, but it's playing in MPCM???

What do your ears tell you ?

At first, I thought when my friend had played it on his 360 that it sounded better, but that was awhile before I got my copy on PS3. I'm just curious why it shows MPCM, and if it is still being played in Dolby, or if something is being altered to MPCM. It says on the back it is in Dolby though.

If you want to have some fun and play around with it you can go into the PS3 audio options and disable the LPCM encoding the PS3 outpits over HDMI. select manual setup for audio, disable LPCM ( one or two may be grayed out and that is ok ) this should leave DD as the audio output. Just something to try to give your ears a reference point.

1)Another thing.. Ninja Gaiden Sigma demo is playing in Dolby Digital, but Vegas in playing in MPCM, why? You mentioned the LPCM over HDMI.. does it play LPCM because its from a disc, and the demo is on my harddrive and doesnt have to travel through HDMI?


Edit: Well just from my 5 minute little test, I can tell PCM sounds much better, in every channel. 2)I'm just confused as to how it is in MPCM?? The back of the game says Dolby, not PCM.

3)And when I have a 5.1 game on and I apply IIx to it, are the rear 2 speakers in Dolby, and the other 5 in PCM??? Ahh I'm confused.

Right , MPCM is just Multi Channel PCM which is typically going to sound better than lossy DD (there are exceptions however)

When has PCM ever sounded worse than Dolby Digital on the same movie/game? That's like saying a MP3 sounds better than the CD.

bump. can someone help me out with the 2 questions above?

1)Another thing.. Ninja Gaiden Sigma demo is playing in Dolby Digital, but Vegas in playing in MPCM, why? You mentioned the LPCM over HDMI.. does it play LPCM because its from a disc, and the demo is on my harddrive and doesnt have to travel through HDMI?


Edit: Well just from my 5 minute little test, I can tell PCM sounds much better, in every channel. 2)I'm just confused as to how it is in MPCM?? The back of the game says Dolby, not PCM.

3)And when I have a 5.1 game on and I apply IIx to it, are the rear 2 speakers in Dolby, and the other 5 in PCM??? Ahh I'm confused.

Someone please correct if I'm wrong, but I've seen it's like this:

If your HDMI Audio settings are set to PCM, then the PS3 is doing all of the decoding - in essence, your receiver is just passing the signal unadulterated to your speakers. If the source is in 2 channel, then you get 2 channel (unless you apply IIx to matrix the rest of the soundstage.)

If your HDMI Audio settings are set to Bitstream, then the PS3 sends the native track (Dolby, DTS, Whatever) to your receiver to be decoded there. The downside is that the PS3 is unable to send DTS-MA or DTHD as a bitstream signal over HDMI (or any other connection type for that matter.)

Also, your 3rd question goes like this: If it's a 5.1 game and you apply IIx to it, then you are getting the original signal going to the 5.1 and a matrixed, but matching signal going to your other 2. No degradation in audio quality, just 7.1 channels of goodness.

1)Another thing.. Ninja Gaiden Sigma demo is playing in Dolby Digital, but Vegas in playing in MPCM, why? You mentioned the LPCM over HDMI.. does it play LPCM because its from a disc, and the demo is on my harddrive and doesnt have to travel through HDMI?


Edit: Well just from my 5 minute little test, I can tell PCM sounds much better, in every channel. 2)I'm just confused as to how it is in MPCM?? The back of the game says Dolby, not PCM.

3)And when I have a 5.1 game on and I apply IIx to it, are the rear 2 speakers in Dolby, and the other 5 in PCM??? Ahh I'm confused.
You are making this far more complex than what it needs to be..

If the game is a Dolby D game, the PS3 can decoded that DD signal and send it out via HDMI as a MPCM signal..just like it does with DVD's. It does the decoding so your reciever doesnt have too. Vs sending bitstream and allowing the receiver do the decoding. The end result should be the same because DD decoded in the PS3 or on your AVR should sound the same. What you need to know is that PCM from the PS3 is always sent as 5.1 or 7.1 ( depending on your output options) BUT depending on the source, those channels not being used are muted (turned off) so MPCM is true surround sound, that can carry a decoded Dolby D (or DTS for that matter). You just wont see the Dolby D or DTS on your AVR because it's already been decoded... Got it?

For your second question. Dolby PL IIx is a matrix that takes 5.1 and makes it 7.1 So no matter if the orginal input is PCM or bitstream( undecoded DD) it's takes a sample of the 5.1 channels and creates the last two. NO you will not have 5.1 in PCM and the last two as DD..they ALL will be the same because they all are coming from the orginal decoding device, with the AVR adding the PLIIx.

Now LPCM (uncompressed) will always sound better than any lossy Dolby format. But thats apples to oranges.

EDIT... A game being on the HD vs disc has nothing to do with how the sound is sent via HDMI.. Ninja G is sent via bitstream (undecoded) so you see Dolby D on your AVR. It's just the way that game (demo)is set up. Tekken is the same way.

Ah, ok. Thank you very much.. that makes things much more clear.

I now understand that the PS3 decodes the signal and sends it VIA HDMI to my receiver as MPCM. However, that signal could be Dolby Digital, but it is going to show up as LPCM regardless, is that correct?

I just want to make sure I have the optimal settings, so seeing LPCM(which i know sounds better) passed from a game with Dolby Digital makes me question if it was the right thing.

So aside from that question above, my last question would be: If I set my output to bitstream, what would be the difference? From what you've said, it sounds like the receiver would do the decoding.. but what will that do different from the PS3?

I now understand that the PS3 decodes the signal and sends it VIA HDMI to my receiver as MPCM. However, that signal could be Dolby Digital, but it is going to show up as LPCM regardless, is that correct?

I just want to make sure I have the optimal settings, so seeing LPCM(which i know sounds better) passed from a game with Dolby Digital makes me question if it was the right thing.

So aside from that question above, my last question would be: If I set my output to bitstream, what would be the difference? From what you've said, it sounds like the receiver would do the decoding.. but what will that do different from the PS3?

Yes a DD or DTS signal decoded on the PS3 will show up as LPCM/MPCM.

Yes bitstream allows the AVR to do the decoding. With DVD's set to bitstream the AVR would do the decoding. With Games you need to go into the audio settings, and turn off all 5.1 and 7.1 options and force the PS3 to send EVERYTHING as bitstream, this will allow the AVR to do the decoding for the games as well. There SHOULD be zero difference, I say SHOULD because some people say their reciever does a better job at decoding DD than the PS3. I personally think it's something in their set up that is giving them this impression...a weak processor on the HDMI port, Or the post processor for bitstream IN the AVR may be bumping up the input level higher than what is coming in Via HDMI..never the less. They should sound the same. It depends on your equipment, and set up.

Gotcha.

By decode better, do you mean better sound quality, or??

So basically keeping it at MPCM/LPCM is the best thing to do, and if there is any difference it is slight?

Gotcha.

By decode better, do you mean better sound quality, or??

So basically keeping it at MPCM/LPCM is the best thing to do, and if there is any difference it is slight?

Percieved sound quality to some...but a lot of people think something that is louder sounds better.YMMV IMHO You'll just have to test and see what sounds best to you. Get a SD DVD with a DD/DTS track, and listen to the same part with bitstream turned on, and then again with PCM turned on. At the same volume level. I personally used Gladitator the DTS track, and noticed no difference.

I think we're thinking far too much into things......

To make it simple, LPCM > Dolby Digital.

Here's a question that I can't get a definitive answer on. If I set my output to HDMI Bitstream and let my receiver do the decoding. What happens if the source's audio is DTS-MA or DTHD? I know PS3 is unable to set it as bitstream but what does it do to it before sending it? Does the PS3 send it as Linear PCM even though my output is set as Bitstream? If so, then the optimal PS3 output setting would be Bitstream.

Thanks

Someone please correct if I'm wrong, but I've seen it's like this:

If your HDMI Audio settings are set to PCM, then the PS3 is doing all of the decoding - in essence, your receiver is just passing the signal unadulterated to your speakers. If the source is in 2 channel, then you get 2 channel (unless you apply IIx to matrix the rest of the soundstage.)

If your HDMI Audio settings are set to Bitstream, then the PS3 sends the native track (Dolby, DTS, Whatever) to your receiver to be decoded there. The downside is that the PS3 is unable to send DTS-MA or DTHD as a bitstream signal over HDMI (or any other connection type for that matter.)

Also, your 3rd question goes like this: If it's a 5.1 game and you apply IIx to it, then you are getting the original signal going to the 5.1 and a matrixed, but matching signal going to your other 2. No degradation in audio quality, just 7.1 channels of goodness.

Good clarifications guys. I had some of these same questions as Im toying with my new receiver and want to know how all this PCM, DD, DTS, etc crap works!! I have an old DVD player that claims it can output DD and DTS over the coaxial input, and my receiver tells me its 2 channel PCM....so I dont know what the heck is going on.

I think we're thinking far too much into things......

To make it simple, LPCM > Dolby Digital.
Yes thats true for Uncompressed sound.. But in the case of the OP with Games and SD-DVD this would be true....LPCM = Dolby Digital when the PS3 is decoding the DD signal and sending it via MPCM over HDMI.

Here's a question that I can't get a definitive answer on. If I set my output to HDMI Bitstream and let my receiver do the decoding. What happens if the source's audio is DTS-MA or DTHD? I know PS3 is unable to set it as bitstream but what does it do to it before sending it? Does the PS3 send it as Linear PCM even though my output is set as Bitstream? If so, then the optimal PS3 output setting would be Bitstream.

Thanks
Good question I dont have a 1.3 reciever so DTS-MA via bitstream isnt an option for me. Try it and tell us what you get. The PS3 tells you exactly what it is sending out during DVD playback. And there is a huge difference in the bandwidth between U/LPCM and bitstream. So get a DTS-MA dvd pop it in, and tell us what bit rate the PS3 is putting out, also tell us what your AVR is recieving. PCM should show up as PCM, bitstream should show up as DTS. Personally I think from what I've read that if you select bitstream and then choose a DTS-MA track the PS3 is going to decode the DTS core (lossy) track. Let us know.

I think we're thinking far too much into things......

To make it simple, LPCM > Dolby Digital.


Very true, but when comparing what is actually being passed, isn't it the same? Skyz said that bitstream means the receiver will decode it, while HDMI LPCM means the PS3 will decode it. However, using a game coded in 5.1 Dolby Digital as an example:

Bitstream: Passed to receiver and shown as Dolby Digital, which the receiver processes.

HDMI: Passed to receiver as MPCM, but isn't this truly Dolby Digital underneath? In this case, the PS3 did the processing.

So in essance, aren't they both the same, yet just decoded by different machines? Why does PS3 throw the LPCM tag on it? I am going to experiment with Bitstream when I get in tonight, but it sounds like this might be the better choice in general, am I right?

Good question I dont have a 1.3 reciever so DTS-MA via bitstream isnt an option for me. Try it and tell us what you get. The PS3 tells you exactly what it is sending out during DVD playback. And there is a huge difference in the bandwidth between U/LPCM and bitstream. So get a DTS-MA dvd pop it in, and tell us what bit rate the PS3 is putting out, also tell us what your AVR is recieving. PCM should show up as PCM, bitstream should show up as DTS. Personally I think from what I've read that if you select bitstream and then choose a DTS-MA track the PS3 is going to decode the DTS core (lossy) track. Let us know.

I've got a 1.3 receiver (Onkyo 805) and tried it both ways. You're right, DTS-MA output over PCM is just the DTS core (as decoded by the PS3 at ~1.5mb). If you set it to bitstream, you will only get the DTS core from the front 2 channels. To be fair, the PS3 cannot process a DTS-MA track at all - yet. It just unwraps it and processes the DTS core.

If it's a DTHD and set to PCM, you get 5.1 channels of uncompressed goodness as decoded by the PS3. If you set it to Bitstream, it still goes out as PCM because the PS3 cannot send DTHD or DTS-MA as bitstream over HDMI (or any other output), but you are likely to get it from the front 2 channels only (I've had it happen both ways.)

To sum up, the PS3 is unable to send any HD audio format via bitstream over HDMI. PCM is currently the best option. You can then apply IIx processing on the receiver to go from 5.1 to 7.1.

I've got a 1.3 receiver (Onkyo 805) and tried it both ways. You're right, DTS-MA output over PCM is just the DTS core (as decoded by the PS3 at ~1.5mb). .
Good info Thanks. So I'll just contiune to wait for the DTS-MA codec firmware upgrade and stick with my old 804 :D I'm a firm believer in allowing the Player do the decoding, and the fact that the PS3 is able to update with software, it is the best option (on player decoding) for me, and my old 804

Good info Thanks. So I'll just contiune to wait for the DTS-MA codec firmware upgrade and stick with my old 804 :D I'm a firm believer in allowing the Player do the decoding, and the fact that the PS3 is able to update with software, it is the best option (on player decoding) for me, and my old 804

Yeah, I'm hoping that they come out with an update that not only allows the PS3 to process DTS-MA, but also allow it to send DTHD and DTS-MA as bitstream over HDMI! :D

So in essance, aren't they both the same, yet just decoded by different machines? Why does PS3 throw the LPCM tag on it? I am going to experiment with Bitstream when I get in tonight, but it sounds like this might be the better choice in general, am I right?
Yes they are.

I think you think PCM is a Codec, and it's not. It's a format. Pulsed Code Modulation..it's just a digital repesentation of an analog signal. You can get PCM from a redbook 2ch CD. DVD, BD, SACD, DD or DTS, can all be decoded and put in the PCM format for transport to an AVR where that Digital signal is then put through a DAC (Digital to Analog Convertor)and converted back to analog for amplification, then on to the speakers.
Before PCM most audio was analog, or converted on board the player (red and white stereo connectors output) But now with the digital world upons us they came up with a way to transport that digital signal to a converter after it's been decoded (unzipped/uncompressed if you will)

When has PCM ever sounded worse than Dolby Digital on the same movie/game? That's like saying a MP3 sounds better than the CD.

Sometimes it can be equal when the PCM is just the DD track being sent ;) .

--- Jason

Yes they are.

I think you think PCM is a Codec, and it's not. It's a format. Pulsed Code Modulation..it's just a digital repesentation of an analog signal. You can get PCM from a redbook 2ch CD. DVD, BD, SACD, DD or DTS, can all be decoded and put in the PCM format for transport to an AVR where that Digital signal is then put through a DAC (Digital to Analog Convertor)and converted back to analog for amplification, then on to the speakers.
Before PCM most audio was analog, or converted on board the player (red and white stereo connectors output) But now with the digital world upons us they came up with a way to transport that digital signal to a converter after it's been decoded (unzipped/uncompressed if you will)


Ahhh ok. When people say PCM > Dolby it makes me think they are 2 different types of the same thing, so they're not?

So is Dolby an analog signal? And how about LPCM?

Sorry, gotta learn this stuff at some point I suppose.

Ahhh ok. When people say PCM > Dolby it makes me think they are 2 different types of the same thing, so they're not?

So is Dolby an analog signal?

Sorry, gotta learn this stuff at some point I suppose.

No Dolby DIGITAL is not an analog signal. However they all get converted into analog, because speakers dont like Digital signals going through them.. :D


Here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolby_Digital

Having read that you'll know why we have DD and DTS.
And before anyone asks.. Which is better Dolby D or DTS?

Here
http://www.hifi-writer.com/he/dolbydts/dolbydts.htm

Ah. Thanks so much for the info. I'm gonna read it over.

So basically-- going back to the main point. There should be NO difference in the game's audio when going from bitstream or HDMI PCM? Aside from, like you said, a possibly raise in volume and small other details?

Right..no difference. DD decoded on the PS3 or on the AVR should be equal to each other.

Sometimes it can be equal when the PCM is just the DD track being sent ;) .

--- Jason
True, and in that case it's probably better to send the DD bitstream to let your receiver decode it.

I'm not exactly sure about games, but I don't think any of them are "Dolby Digital native"....if you understand what I mean.

If some of them are, that's just stupid. :p

Bitstream means compressing the full audio quality down to a Dolby Digital track and hence loosing quality. Many people here are under the strange impression that games have Dobly Digital tracks on them like movies do, but games require dynamic soundtracks because unlike a movie the gun has to make it's "bang" whenever and coming from wherever you pull the trigger, not when and where the actor did while they were filming it. So you can't have a pre-encoded surroundsound track in a game, rather the soundtrack has to be generated dynamicly and either be compressed in real-time down to Dolby Digital, or output at full quality as MPCM.

Kylebisme what you said is a bit missleading, there is no pre defined DD track with games, thats true .. but the content is still encoded (compressed) on the disc..It doesnt get decoded when the gun fires then compressed then sent via bitstream to the AVR where it is then Decoded..again. Wherever the Decoding take places. Bitstream or PCM..it's only done once. Dolbys Interactive Content Encoder (DICE as they like to call it) Allows the interactive track of the game to be decoded by the either on the Game console OR the AVR. The end result will still be the same. Decoded once..Not twice DICE was originally designed to be put out Via bitstream on Optical.. (We all know optical cant do more than 2ch of PCM..so before HDMI DICE relied upon Optical via bitstream to give you 5.1 DD Surround sound from games.

Kylebisme what you said is a bit missleading, there is no pre defined DD track with games, thats true .. but the content is still encoded (compressed) on the disc..
I said that the soundtrack can't be pre-encoded onto the disk, of couse the sound samples used to generate the soundtrack are.

It doesnt get decoded when the gun fires then compressed then sent via bitstream to the AVR where it is then Decoded..again.
It doesn't get decoded, it gets mixed, and then that mix is either output as full quality MPCM or compressed further into DD.

Wherever the Decoding take places. Bitstream or PCM..it's only done once. Dolbys Interactive Content Encoder (DICE as they like to call it) Allows the interactive track of the game to be decoded by the either on the Game console OR the AVR. The end result will still be the same. Decoded once..Not twice DICE was originally designed to be put out Via bitstream on Optical.. (We all know optical cant do more than 2ch of PCM..so before HDMI DICE relied upon Optical via bitstream to give you 5.1 DD Surround sound from games.
There is no "interactive track" there is a bunch of samples which are used to dynamicly generate a track, and then DICE compresses that to DD so the 5.1 track be send over optical.

I just set my PS3 to bitstream, and as I was told-- there was little to no difference. However, the receiver still read MPCM- Why? Is it because it is being sent from a disc? All my hard drive games show up as Dolby Digital.

I need to fully understand the difference between PCM and Dolby. In movies you have an option of either Dolby or MPCM, so that makes me think PCM is a codec... why is there a difference?


And aside from those questions above... what should I keep it my PS3 on? Bitstream or HDMI PCM? Are there advantages/disadvantages?

Thanks again.

PCM is a codec, it simply isn't compressed like the Dolby Digital (AC-3) codec is. Digital optical is limited to 2 channel PCM, so encoding such as Dolby Digital is used to get 5.1 from the console/DVD player to the receiver over optical. Also, for DVDs Dolby Digital is used because it compresses the sound to where it can fit on the disk where a movie's worth of full quality multichannel PCM would not. But now we have HDMI which supports multchannel PCM and Blu-ray disks which have multiple times the capacity for movie soundtracks, while Dolby Digital and DTS are simply included for legacy support.

Ok. I understand it all now... The one thing I don't get is why the PS3 is throwing "MPCM" when pushing the DD track to the receiver.

Was going to post a thread on this but figure i'll just piggyback on this one.

Just to straighten out and hardware or cabling issues i'm currently using an Onkyo 605 w/ a 5.1 setup w/ my PS3 . The cable hookup is PS3 to Receiver via HDMI, Receiver to TV via HDMI. The HDMI audio output has every box checked (except AAC) when i have the PS3 automatically setup audio.

Now the problem is that when i play a game on my PS3 with Dolby Digital Pro Logic II i'm only getting sound from the front 2 speakers / center / sub. If i'm reading this thread right, the PS3 should be sending a decoded PCM track to my receiver which should then be outputting sound to all my speakers and not just those front 4 correct? The game i've been testing it with is Metal Gear Solid 3 which has a very distinct (and well done) 5.1 audio track.

Now when i uncheck all 5.1 and 7.1 boxes under audio output the game's audio runs properly and i can hear distinct sound coming from each speaker. Is this what you guys meant by switching it to output bitstream or is there another setting i'm missing? The only other one i found was under the BD/DVD section under settings.

If this is the only way to get 5.1 or 7.1 DD or PLXII output via PS3 it's going to be a serious pain in the ass unless every game comes with a PCM soundtrack instead of DD or PLXII.

Was going to post a thread on this but figure i'll just piggyback on this one.

Just to straighten out and hardware or cabling issues i'm currently using an Onkyo 605 w/ a 5.1 setup w/ my PS3 . The cable hookup is PS3 to Receiver via HDMI, Receiver to TV via HDMI. The HDMI audio output has every box checked (except AAC) when i have the PS3 automatically setup audio.

Now the problem is that when i play a game on my PS3 with Dolby Digital Pro Logic II i'm only getting sound from the front 2 speakers / center / sub. If i'm reading this thread right, the PS3 should be sending a decoded PCM track to my receiver which should then be outputting sound to all my speakers and not just those front 4 correct? The game i've been testing it with is Metal Gear Solid 3 which has a very distinct (and well done) 5.1 audio track.

Now when i uncheck all 5.1 and 7.1 boxes under audio output the game's audio runs properly and i can hear distinct sound coming from each speaker. Is this what you guys meant by switching it to output bitstream or is there another setting i'm missing? The only other one i found was under the BD/DVD section under settings.

If this is the only way to get 5.1 or 7.1 DD or PLXII output via PS3 it's going to be a serious pain in the ass unless every game comes with a PCM soundtrack instead of DD or PLXII.

I've got that game right by my PS3. When I get in I'll try a few things out and let you know. You SHOULD only have to uncheck the 7.1 boxes though, since this game is in 5.1. Then apply IIx. Try that and report back. Also, are you using the RX-V661?

But again, this game is in DD-- and it shows up as MPCM.. as does everything else.. and that confuses me.

PCM is not a true codec. It converts an analog signal into digital. Sound is analog, computers (PS3) dont do analog. Unless it has a DAC's in it. The PS3 does. but its for stereo output only. So in order to send analog sound out, it converts it to PCM...Thats all PCM is.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulse-code_modulation
Calling it a codec is/can be an arugment of semantics. All the other codecs in regaurds to Sound (AC-3, MP3, ATRAC...etc.) all need some kind of software program to truely decode the signal and get to the core audio. Calling PCM a codec in this sense is..to me... a bit misleading. As PCM in this regaurd doesnt need any software decoding, it only needs to be converted from a digital signal back to analog. It's the compression that really determines what is a codec, because it needs to be run through some sort of software to get to the real stuff inside.
I dont know how else to explain it. MPCM is just Multiple Channel Pulse Code Modulation. Surround sound in the form of the Digital PCM format. It is capable of carrying decoded DD. Since the DD signal is allready been decoded, and put on PCM as it's method of transport to the AMP. Your AVR doesnt see the DD container because the DD encryption has already been stripped away, and the signal it is getting is the stuff that was boxed up in the DD container...the PS3 already opened the DD box, so the AVR doesnt have too. Thats why you dont see the DD, and why you DO see MPCM.

Wow.. that makes things so much more clear. I understand it perfectly now. Basically, to re-iterate what you just said, you can't "send' a DD signal. Therefore, you need to "convert" it to PCM, THEN you can send it. It arrives on the AVR as PCM and shows up that way, but underneath it is truly DD, right?
It just throws me off because I would like to see what format it is truly on the receiver. And that explains why the game's on my hard drive show up how they say they are. There is no transport from the disc, therefore it doesn't need to be converted to PCM.

So when the DD is changed to PCM, is there any loss of quality in the conversion process? Or is it very simply throwing the PCM tag on it and not harming it?

Aside from that, game's usually only have one codec, right? Unlike movies where you have multiple choices.

How do you find out what exactly the PS3 is outputing? Is the info screen telling you what's being outputted or merely shows you the format of the contents that the ps3 is currently playing. If the info screen is show what is being outputed, then setting audio output to bitstream is the way to go because when set to bitstream DD signals are recognized by my receiver (Yamaha RX-2600) as DD, and DDHD signals are recognized as MPCM. Now whether the MPCM is the compressed or uncompressed version, I have no way to tell other than from the PS3 info screen.

Hope this helps.


Good question I dont have a 1.3 reciever so DTS-MA via bitstream isnt an option for me. Try it and tell us what you get. The PS3 tells you exactly what it is sending out during DVD playback. And there is a huge difference in the bandwidth between U/LPCM and bitstream. So get a DTS-MA dvd pop it in, and tell us what bit rate the PS3 is putting out, also tell us what your AVR is recieving. PCM should show up as PCM, bitstream should show up as DTS. Personally I think from what I've read that if you select bitstream and then choose a DTS-MA track the PS3 is going to decode the DTS core (lossy) track. Let us know.

How do you find out what exactly the PS3 is outputing? Is the info screen telling you what's being outputted or merely shows you the format of the contents that the ps3 is currently playing. If the info screen is show what is being outputed, then setting audio output to bitstream is the way to go because when set to bitstream DD signals are recognized by my receiver (Yamaha RX-2600) as DD, and DDHD signals are recognized as MPCM. Now whether the MPCM is the compressed or uncompressed version, I have no way to tell other than from the PS3 info screen.

Hope this helps.

MPCM is not compressed by its very nature. If it's showing as MPCM, it's already been decoded and is being sent as a direct signal.

I know that the MPCM is a decoded signal. But is it the decoded uncompressed DDHD source (i.e the one that's outputted if the output were set to Linear PCM) or is it just a decoded DD5.1 b/c I have my audio output set to bitstream. How can I confirm that it's indeed the former?


MPCM is not compressed by its very nature. If it's showing as MPCM, it's already been decoded and is being sent as a direct signal.

PCM is not a true codec. It converts an analog signal into digital. Sound is analog, computers (PS3) dont do analog. Unless it has a DAC's in it. The PS3 does. but its for stereo output only. So in order to send analog sound out, it converts it to PCM...Thats all PCM is.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulse-code_modulation
Calling it a codec is/can be an arugment of semantics. All the other codecs in regaurds to Sound (AC-3, MP3, ATRAC...etc.) all need some kind of software program to truely decode the signal and get to the core audio. Calling PCM a codec in this sense is..to me... a bit misleading. As PCM in this regaurd doesnt need any software decoding, it only needs to be converted from a digital signal back to analog. It's the compression that really determines what is a codec, because it needs to be run through some sort of software to get to the real stuff inside.
If you want to get into semantics, AC-3, MP3, ATRAC aren't a codecs either, they are just code. It's the AC-3 coder/decoder, MP3 coder/decoders, and ATRAC coder/decoders that are the actual codecs; as coder/decoder is what co-dec stands for. In the case of the PS3, the sound is all handled digitally until it reaches the DAC in your receiver or the DAC on the consoles analog output if you are using that; unlike you claimed, there is no analog to digital conversion done on the PS3.

I know that the MPCM is a decoded signal. But is it the decoded uncompressed DDHD source (i.e the one that's outputted if the output were set to Linear PCM) or is it just a decoded DD5.1 b/c I have my audio output set to bitstream. How can I confirm that it's indeed the former?

It's whichever signal was selected from the source. For instance, if you're playing a game and it was encoded with DD5.1, then the output is decoded DD5.1. If you're watching a movie and selected DTHD, then it's decoded DTHD. The only caveat is with DTS-MA. If you selected DTS-MA as the source, then the best you're going to get is DTS over PCM. The PS3 does not have the correct software to decode DTS-MA natively (in all fairness, neither does any other player on the market yet.)
Keep the questions coming. We'll get this straight one way or another...

I just want to make sure I got it down:

Basically, to re-iterate what was said, you can't "send' a DD signal. Therefore, you need to "convert" it to PCM, THEN you can send it. It arrives on the AVR as PCM and shows up that way, but underneath it is truly DD, right?

And therefore, Resistance:Fall of Man (7.1 PCM) should sound MUCH better than Rainbow Six:Vegas (Dolby 5.1), right? Because the first is native PCM, and the second has to be upconverted or converted to PCM to transport to the AVR, is that right?

I just want to make sure I got it down:

Basically, to re-iterate what was said, you can't "send' a DD signal. Therefore, you need to "convert" it to PCM, THEN you can send it. It arrives on the AVR as PCM and shows up that way, but underneath it is truly DD, right?

And therefore, Resistance:Fall of Man (7.1 PCM) should sound MUCH better than Rainbow Six:Vegas (Dolby 5.1), right? Because the first is native PCM, and the second has to be upconverted or converted to PCM to transport to the AVR, is that right?

Not quite...
You can send a DD signal from your PS3 to your receiver for decoding - via bitstream.
Or, you can select PCM, let the PS3 decode the DD and send the audio as a PCM stream to your receiver.
The only difference is, in the first example, your receiver converts the DD to PCM, in the second, your PS3 does.

And yes, RFoM would sound much better than R6:V. Here's why:
RFoM is 7.1 uncompressed PCM. This means that the native signal is never compressed at all (no DD encoding ever happens), so you get the audio as it was truly meant to be heard. The reason most things are encoded in DD or DTS is because the audio takes up space on the disk. The less audio information you have, the less space it takes up, leaving room for other things like special features. These are known as lossy formats. The new DTHD and DTS-MA are lossless formats - they take up a lot of room, but are uncompressed audio - true to the original source.
Getting back to RFoM: By saying that it's 7.1 PCM, they are telling us that the audio has never been compressed or encoded as a digital format, thereby granting us - the player - beautiful audiophonic goodness.
When we play RFoM, the native PCM signal gets sent directly to our receiver, then out to the speakers. No processing necessary.
When we play R6:V, the audio track has to be either decoded by the PS3, then sent to the receiver, then to the speakers, or it has to be sent as a bitstream signal to the receiver, decoded from DD to MPCM, then sent to the speakers.

Does this help?

It won't help becuase you are way off, still thinking of games like movies which they simply aren't. Again, therre is no 'audio track' in a game, just a collection of sounds which are complied dynamicly to generate an audio track to match what is happening in the game. In all games those samples are compressed, they are compressed both to save disk space and processing power. The only difference is is they are to be compressed again on output to DD or if the setup in question supports full quality multichanel PCM sound; and games can use either.

Yes. Thank you very much--- I think I had the right idea before, but I confused when the DD had to be converted to PCM. It's actually before being sent to the Speakers/TV, not before it leaves the PS3- is that correct? Therefore there is the choice between your PS3 or receiver decoding it. Regardless, it needs to be PCM at some point before going to the speakers/TV.

How come the games on my hard drive, like the Ninja Gaiden Demo show up on my receiver as DD though?

I need to listen to R:FOM again, I don't think I've played it since I got my receiver. But I do need to get some new speakers more than anything.

The only thing I wish was a little different is that I could see what the "true" source is on my receiver, before it processes it to PCM.

Yes. Thank you very much--- I think I had the right idea before, but I confused when the DD had to be converted to PCM. It's actually before being sent to the Speakers/TV, not before it leaves the PS3- is that correct? Therefore there is the choice between your PS3 or receiver decoding it. Regardless, it needs to be PCM at some point before going to the speakers/TV.

How come the games on my hard drive, like the Ninja Gaiden Demo show up on my receiver as DD though?

I need to listen to R:FOM again, I don't think I've played it since I got my receiver. But I do need to get some new speakers more than anything.

The only thing I wish was a little different is that I could see what the "true" source is on my receiver, before it processes it to PCM.

The hard disk based games show up as DD because the information from them is being sent bitstream. I've yet to find a setting anywhere in the setup that would allow you to set the game audio output to PCM.

New speakers are always fun!

Not quite...
You can send a DD signal from your PS3 to your receiver for decoding - via bitstream.
Or, you can select PCM, let the PS3 decode the DD and send the audio as a PCM stream to your receiver.
The only difference is, in the first example, your receiver converts the DD to PCM, in the second, your PS3 does.

And yes, RFoM would sound much better than R6:V. Here's why:
RFoM is 7.1 uncompressed PCM. This means that the native signal is never compressed at all (no DD encoding ever happens), so you get the audio as it was truly meant to be heard. The reason most things are encoded in DD or DTS is because the audio takes up space on the disk. The less audio information you have, the less space it takes up, leaving room for other things like special features. These are known as lossy formats. The new DTHD and DTS-MA are lossless formats - they take up a lot of room, but are uncompressed audio - true to the original source.
Getting back to RFoM: By saying that it's 7.1 PCM, they are telling us that the audio has never been compressed or encoded as a digital format, thereby granting us - the player - beautiful audiophonic goodness.
When we play RFoM, the native PCM signal gets sent directly to our receiver, then out to the speakers. No processing necessary.
When we play R6:V, the audio track has to be either decoded by the PS3, then sent to the receiver, then to the speakers, or it has to be sent as a bitstream signal to the receiver, decoded from DD to MPCM, then sent to the speakers.

Does this help?

Dolby Digital and DTS are not used to compress sound samples on a game disc as they are not meant for dynamic audio demanded by games. DD and DTS are only used for the output stage where by all game and system audio is mixed and encoded.

What makes the audio in resistance fall of man so great is the high qaulity of it's audio samples, it would be excellent output as either PCM or a DD bitstream.

Edit: kylebisme beat me to it.

The hard disk based games show up as DD because the information from them is being sent bitstream. I've yet to find a setting anywhere in the setup that would allow you to set the game audio output to PCM.

New speakers are always fun!


In the audio setup menu un check dolby digital as a format your receiver supports, the PS3 will than output the native audio.

I've got that game right by my PS3. When I get in I'll try a few things out and let you know. You SHOULD only have to uncheck the 7.1 boxes though, since this game is in 5.1. Then apply IIx. Try that and report back. Also, are you using the RX-V661?

Nope can't apply IIx to a PCM 5.1 or 7.1 track, it's a limitation of the Onkyo 605. Guess getting the proper speaker output to my receiver from the PS3 is going to be a pain in the ass since if i'm reading this right, the only way to get correct DD and IIx output is to have the PS3 output it as bitstream (by unchecking all the boxes) or to have the receiver aplly IIx or DD to the PCM track (which my receiver can't do).

You really do get what you pay for i guess lol. For movies the 605 is sufficient but for games it appears to be a POS. Those new Denon receivers can't come fast enough heh.

Nope can't apply IIx to a PCM 5.1 or 7.1 track, it's a limitation of the Onkyo 605. Guess getting the proper speaker output to my receiver from the PS3 is going to be a pain in the ass since if i'm reading this right, the only way to get correct DD and IIx output is to have the PS3 output it as bitstream (by unchecking all the boxes) or to have the receiver aplly IIx or DD to the PCM track (which my receiver can't do).

You really do get what you pay for i guess lol. For movies the 605 is sufficient but for games it appears to be a POS. Those new Denon receivers can't come fast enough heh.

My Yamaha RX-V661 was pretty cheap, and pairs great with the PS3. There are a few hassles, like unchecking 7.1(how many receivers do you have to do this for?) in order to apply IIx, and having to turn that on every time you turn your receiver back on.

I understand what you're saying. But how do you CONFIRM that the DDHD pcm that's outputed via bitstream is indeed the decoded DDHD that you've selected.
The reason I'm asking this is b/c when you select bitstream as the audio output on the ps3, it pops up a msg saying that you might lose audio data. This msg leads me to think that the PCM that's outputted via bitstream MIGHT not be the decoded PCM of the DDHD that is selected on the source media. Also, assuming that it's indeed sending the true DTHD pcm, what would be the benefits of selecting Linear PCM output option unless you don't have an external DD decoder.

RowdyRoddy, do you configure your audio output as bitstream? I'm using bitstream for mine b/c DDHD PCM sounds (to my ears) to be the true DDHD.


It's whichever signal was selected from the source. For instance, if you're playing a game and it was encoded with DD5.1, then the output is decoded DD5.1. If you're watching a movie and selected DTHD, then it's decoded DTHD. The only caveat is with DTS-MA. If you selected DTS-MA as the source, then the best you're going to get is DTS over PCM. The PS3 does not have the correct software to decode DTS-MA natively (in all fairness, neither does any other player on the market yet.)
Keep the questions coming. We'll get this straight one way or another...

I understand what you're saying. But how do you CONFIRM that the DDHD pcm that's outputed via bitstream is indeed the decoded DDHD that you've selected.
The reason I'm asking this is b/c when you select bitstream as the audio output on the ps3, it pops up a msg saying that you might lose audio data. This msg leads me to think that the PCM that's outputted via bitstream MIGHT not be the decoded PCM of the DDHD that is selected on the source media. Also, assuming that it's indeed sending the true DTHD pcm, what would be the benefits of selecting Linear PCM output option unless you don't have an external DD decoder.

RowdyRoddy, do you configure your audio output as bitstream? I'm using bitstream for mine b/c DDHD PCM sounds (to my ears) to be the true DDHD.

I use PCM as the output type. The problem with the PS3 is that it won't send 5.1 or 7.1 channels to the receiver via bitstream. It only sends 2.1 channels and your receiver has to matrix the rest. Changing the setting to PCM lets it send all 5.1 or 7.1 channels to your receiver (assuming you have it connected via HDMI.)

Well that answered my next question of if I should use bitstream or PCM. I was thinking PCM based on what I had read thus far anyway. Thanks again everyone so much for the info, I'm really glad I got this down now.

Are you sure about this? I can't speak for 7.1 since I only have a 5.1 setup. But Bitstream has always worked for me for 5.1 signals, i.e. it shows up on my receiver as Dolby Digital with 5 separate channels detected. That's why I've been saying that Bitstream should be correct setting to use if the MPCM signal detected by my receiver is indeed the decoded DDHD signal (i.e the same MPCM signal that's sent out if audio output were set to Linear PCM). This would mean that the PS3 when set to Bitstream will auto decode a DDHD source and pass as PCM, and would pass "regular" DD5.1 as undecoded bitstream to the receiver. So far, I think this is exactly what the ps3 (w/ 1.82 firmware) is doing.




I use PCM as the output type. The problem with the PS3 is that it won't send 5.1 or 7.1 channels to the receiver via bitstream. It only sends 2.1 channels and your receiver has to matrix the rest. Changing the setting to PCM lets it send all 5.1 or 7.1 channels to your receiver (assuming you have it connected via HDMI.)

Are you sure about this? I can't speak for 7.1 since I only have a 5.1 setup. But Bitstream has always worked for me for 5.1 signals, i.e. it shows up on my receiver as Dolby Digital with 5 separate channels detected. That's why I've been saying that Bitstream should be correct setting to use if the MPCM signal detected by my receiver is indeed the decoded DDHD signal (i.e the same MPCM signal that's sent out if audio output were set to Linear PCM). This would mean that the PS3 when set to Bitstream will auto decode a DDHD source and pass as PCM, and would pass "regular" DD5.1 as undecoded bitstream to the receiver. So far, I think this is exactly what the ps3 (w/ 1.82 firmware) is doing.

When I set my PS3 up for bitstream, I get DD5.1 on my receiver, when the source is DD. However, when I am watching a Blu-ray, and I select DTHD, with the PS3 set for bitstream, I only get 2 channels and my receiver has to apply PLII or PLIIx to matrix the rest. When I set the PS3 for PCM, I get MPCM 5 or 7 channels direct with no processing necessary.

What you've experienced (and something similar) is what I've been reading from users, and that is when the PS3 is set to Bitstream the PCM it outputs might not correspond to what's actually selected. In your case, you said that when you select DTHD from your BR movie source, ps3 outputs a 2 channel PCM to your receiver. And this is why I've been asking whehther or not there's a way to VERIFY that the PCM signal that the receiver sees is indeed the decoded DTHD source that you've selected. In your case, it's obvious that it's not because your receiver detects only a 2-ch signal. However, in my experience my receiver detects a 5-channel PCM signal via ps3's bitstream output. Very puzzling ...



When I set my PS3 up for bitstream, I get DD5.1 on my receiver, when the source is DD. However, when I am watching a Blu-ray, and I select DTHD, with the PS3 set for bitstream, I only get 2 channels and my receiver has to apply PLII or PLIIx to matrix the rest. When I set the PS3 for PCM, I get MPCM 5 or 7 channels direct with no processing necessary.

What you've experienced (and something similar) is what I've been reading from users, and that is when the PS3 is set to Bitstream the PCM it outputs might not correspond to what's actually selected. In your case, you said that when you select DTHD from your BR movie source, ps3 outputs a 2 channel PCM to your receiver. And this is why I've been asking whehther or not there's a way to VERIFY that the PCM signal that the receiver sees is indeed the decoded DTHD source that you've selected. In your case, it's obvious that it's not because your receiver detects only a 2-ch signal. However, in my experience my receiver detects a 5-channel PCM signal via ps3's bitstream output. Very puzzling ...

Which receiver do you have?

Yamaha RX-2600. What about yours?

Which receiver do you have?

Yamaha RX-2600. What about yours?

Onkyo TX-SR805. I'm loving the receiver so far. When I get home tomorrow (I'm on the road), I'll press the info display while I've got a BD DTHD disc running. Now I'm curious...

While I have a disc playing, I can press the display button of my PS3 and see exactly what kind of signal is being decoded by the PS3. I can do the same thing with my receiver, but when it is receiving a PCM signal, it just says it's multichannel PCM.

In my experiences, though I haven't used DTHD, I don't see(or hear) any difference from bitstream and PCM. It shows up on the receiver the same way as well. Though I haven't tried it with a Blu-Ray either. From what one of the people on here said, there shouldn't really be a difference- right?

I know the debate is over DTHD, due to the PS3 and the question of if it can/will be able to decode DTHD.

Your receiver should display MPCM when viewing a Blu-Ray disc that's outputting DDHD signal because the PS3 is doing the decoding the DDHD signal and outputs it as LPCM REGARDLESS of whether you've set your audio output as Linear PCM or Bitstream. However, your receiver should have indicators telling you the number of channels are in the MPCM signal that it receives.


While I have a disc playing, I can press the display button of my PS3 and see exactly what kind of signal is being decoded by the PS3. I can do the same thing with my receiver, but when it is receiving a PCM signal, it just says it's multichannel PCM.

Your receiver should display MPCM when viewing a Blu-Ray disc that's outputting DDHD signal because the PS3 is doing the decoding the DDHD signal and outputs it as LPCM REGARDLESS of whether you've set your audio output as Linear PCM or Bitstream. However, your receiver should have indicators telling you the number of channels are in the MPCM signal that it receives.

When I have the PS3 set as Bitstream, those indicators show 2 channels. When I set it to PCM, it shows 5. That is, when I'm playing a BD with DTHD or DTS-MA. When the source is an SD DVD with either DD5.1 or DTS, it shows 5.1 channels regardless of the setting - bitstream or PCM.

Which Br Disc Did You Try With Dts Hd?

Which Br Disc Did You Try With Dts Hd?

Eragon. Of course, it still only decoded the DTS core at 1.5mb.

Eragon. Of course, it still only decoded the DTS core at 1.5mb.

Eragon, sucked! never got it though.

I watched courage under fire it had DTS MHD and it was decoded as 1.5MB DTS with my old denon reciever. Would it be different with new onkyos 805 etc?

Did any one played COURAGE UNDER FIRE via PS3 to ONKYO 805?

Results?

As far as I have seen, games are always M-PCM over HDMI.

Can someone point me to some basic audio format information to help clear this up. I will be upgrading my receiver sometime hopefully next year. I am pretty confused now after reading this thread.

While I have a disc playing, I can press the display button of my PS3 and see exactly what kind of signal is being decoded by the PS3.

Sorry for the noob question, but which button is the display button for the audio signal being decoded?

Eragon, sucked! never got it though.

I watched courage under fire it had DTS MHD and it was decoded as 1.5MB DTS with my old denon reciever. Would it be different with new onkyos 805 etc?

Did any one played COURAGE UNDER FIRE via PS3 to ONKYO 805?

Results?

I'm using the new Onkyo 805. It's the PS3 that has the limitation of decoding only the DTS core. There's no hardware out yet that will send DTS-MA to the receiver as a bitstream signal, and there's no player that will natively decode DTS-MA and send it as PCM, so everything comes out DTS core.

As far as I have seen, games are always M-PCM over HDMI.

My Marvell Ultimate Alliance sends bitstream DD5.1 to my receiver. I was playing that last night, else I would have had to check...

Sorry for the noob question, but which button is the display button for the audio signal being decoded?

I've got the Bluetooth PS3 DVD remote control and it has a display button on it. I'm not sure, but I believe with the standard controller, you can press the triangle during playback and select the "info" selection (top row right maybe).

Hmm, that might be a limitation of your receiver then because for me, with any DTHD signal, my receiver always show 5-ch MPCM over Bitstream. Another thing you might try is to run the audio setup again ...


When I have the PS3 set as Bitstream, those indicators show 2 channels. When I set it to PCM, it shows 5. That is, when I'm playing a BD with DTHD or DTS-MA. When the source is an SD DVD with either DD5.1 or DTS, it shows 5.1 channels regardless of the setting - bitstream or PCM.

If you are running HDMI, then your receiver should receive all channels from a Dolby TrueHD track no matter what your PS3 is set to (PCM mode or Bitstream mode). This is because all versions of HDMI below 1.3 will not transport Dolby TrueHD while it is still zipped, so the PS3 (which supports decoding Dolby TrueHD) unzips the Dolby TrueHD wrapper and sends the contents which is uncompressed (lossless) multi-channel PCM.

DTS-HD Master Audio is different though because the PS3 cannot unzip this type of audio folder (yes, I am using the wrong terms, but my lingo may be easier to understand for some). Essentially the PS3 does not support it yet. And, HDMI versions below 1.3 will not support transporting the zipped DTS-HD MA audio to a receiver just like Dolby TrueHD.

So now I have some questions....

I have noticed the following on 2 Ch. 16 bit 44.1 kHz .WAV files and now on a PS2 game (Dragon Quest VIII) which is 2 Ch. stereo:

My Receiver shows the audio as 5.1 PCM. Audio only plays from the front left/right mains and sub, but I can hear a faint white noise coming from the rear left/right surrounds (not sure about the center channel).

I am using HDMI and Bitstream output so my receiver does all the decoding (except with Dolby TrueHD).

Why is this happening? Shouldnt the PS3 be sending 2 channels of PCM at the very least with .WAV files and Stereo encoded PS2 games??? I am suprised no one else is talking about this yet...

The white noise is my biggest concern!

Also, ever since Sony added in the upsampling for CD audio in the last patch, I am paranoid the PS3 is trying to upsample 44.1 kHz audio....so I disabled 88.2 kHz and 176.4 kHz. Now...ever since the update and ever since I have disabled these formats, all 2 channel .WAVs and PS1/PS2 games are showing on my receiver as 5.1 PCM with white noise coming from the rear speakers *sigh*

Yes that's what the PS3 does, it encodes everything in 5.1 PCM (or 7.1 if you have those options checked) no matter what the source is.

I don't get noise from my speakers, but it does limit the soundfields my receiver can apply -i.e. no Dolby PLIIx Music, which is my preferred listening mode for stereo music.... :(

So why is it encoding everything even when Bitstream output is turned on??? I just want to hear audio tracks as intended....nothing else...nothing more.

If the audio source is 2 ch 16 bit 44.1 kHz, then I want to hear exactly that!

I just tested some audio formats tonight. I tried every combination of sound settings I could think of.

HDCD - will only show the logo on my AV Receiver if I choose the 44.1/88.2/176.4 kHz option and then uncheck 2 channel 88.2 & 176.4 kHz. My receiver sees the audio as 2 channel PCM with the HDCD logo and there is no white noise coming from the center or rear L/R.

.WAV - 2 channel 16 bit 44.1 kHz .wav shows up at 5.1 PCM no matter what I do. Very quiet white noise is coming from the center and rear L/R speakers.

PS2 - Dragon Quest VIII has a stereo mode. My AV Receiver sees this as 5.1 PCM and again, white noise plays through my center and rear L/R speakers.

This is annoying. Can someone else please test this? I am using HDMI with a Marantz SR7001. I do not recall this problem before 1.9 was released.

Same here. All 2ch source are outputted as 5.1 pcm regardless of whether it's via bitstream or linear pcm. I don't get any white noise from my speakers however. And my receiver can still apply various dsp on top of the 5.1 pcm signal. It can also play the 5.1pcm as 2ch stereo using just the L/R speakers. The only thing it can't do is apply any matrix processing/decoding (Dolby PLII, etc) to the original 2ch signal, since it's coming in as a 5.1 signal from the ps3.



I just tested some audio formats tonight. I tried every combination of sound settings I could think of.

HDCD - will only show the logo on my AV Receiver if I choose the 44.1/88.2/176.4 kHz option and then uncheck 2 channel 88.2 & 176.4 kHz. My receiver sees the audio as 2 channel PCM with the HDCD logo and there is no white noise coming from the center or rear L/R.

.WAV - 2 channel 16 bit 44.1 kHz .wav shows up at 5.1 PCM no matter what I do. Very quiet white noise is coming from the center and rear L/R speakers.

PS2 - Dragon Quest VIII has a stereo mode. My AV Receiver sees this as 5.1 PCM and again, white noise plays through my center and rear L/R speakers.

This is annoying. Can someone else please test this? I am using HDMI with a Marantz SR7001. I do not recall this problem before 1.9 was released.

Can you double check for white noise? I have to put my ear right up against the speaker to hear it, but it is definitely there in the rear surrounds and in the center channels.

I'm pretty sure I didn't hear any noise when I put my ears next to my speakers. I had to do that to make sure that when I set the receiver to output 2ch that nothing was coming out of the C/rear speakers. Maybe it has to do with the source, I don't know because I only tested it with a CD and an mp3.


Can you double check for white noise? I have to put my ear right up against the speaker to hear it, but it is definitely there in the rear surrounds and in the center channels.