I'm building a test box to see if the SO can operate a MythTV based box, and live with it if we turn off the DTiVo we have. It's an old clunker of a box (PII-550); I just want a proof-of-concept.

Are there any bargain tuner cards out there to be had for testing? I'm thinking of something in the $20-30 range that I can throw away if we decide not to go full-up. It doesn't need to do ATSC for this (and the pc couldn't hack hd anyway), though a few more dollars for hw encoding would probabaly be worth it.

Because of the ever-present driver issues, I'd like to find something that is known to work with MythTV (just burned KnoppMyth R5F1). My linux skills are pretty basic, so something working ootb is pretty necessary.

Suggestions?

I'm building a test box to see if the SO can operate a MythTV based box, and live with it if we turn off the DTiVo we have. It's an old clunker of a box (PII-550); I just want a proof-of-concept. If you just want proof-of-concept, you might want to try installing Myth with NO tuner cards and see if you can get DVD playback to work. If not, then you won't do any better with standard def TV.

I don't have one myself, but have heard that the Hauppauge PVR-x50 series are recommended for underpowered systems since they have onboard MPEG assists for both recording and playback.

you will need a hardware encoding card. hauppauge cards seem to have the best support in linux. I'd suggest either a 150 or one of the new 1600. You could always buy one at a local big box store and return it if your pc doesn't have enough poop.

The dvd playback suggestion is also a really good suggestion. What kind of video card do you have?

I would advise against starting with such an old computer. It tends to lead to nothing but problems. I would guess it would be severely underpowered regarding processor and also video card.


Here's a basic rundown on hardware requirements from the MythTV offical site

http://www.mythtv.org/docs/mythtv-HOWTO-3.html#ss3.1

Here's another well known myth site with some hardware guidelines

http://wilsonet.com/mythtv/fcmyth.php#hw

I would also suggest looking into MythDora 4 if you are new to setting up myth. Seems to get good reviews for easy setup.

One word of advise regarding MythTV, research research research. Most people who have nightmares setting it up try to use hardware that it's well supported in Linux. Stick to things that are well supported... For example, Nvidia 5200 and 6200 series video cards and Hauppauge PVR-150 & 500(dual tuners) series tuners are well supported.

If you just want proof-of-concept, you might want to try installing Myth with NO tuner cards and see if you can get DVD playback to work. If not, then you won't do any better with standard def TV.

I don't have one myself, but have heard that the Hauppauge PVR-x50 series are recommended for underpowered systems since they have onboard MPEG assists for both recording and playback.


That's a great suggestion. I hadn't really thought of using it as a DVD playback tool (partly because I know so little about it). That might be a good way to go to begin with, though I'll need to see if I can "schedule" recordings without a tuner, just to get a feel for the interface. Maybe I'll hang out and see of the PVR-150 goes on sale somewhere.

Getting more horsepower is a non-starter. This is supposed to be a less expensive alternative to an S3 TiVo; with used TiVo S3 boxes available for $500, there's little apparent economy in having to buy a new machine - expecially one which may not turn out to be a viable option in my house. I have a separate box for pre-recorded stuff; I want to find out - on a non-production machine - the workability of the family being able to deal with the Myth interface.

I suggest you just buy the tivo. your computer is way underpowered to be a frontend, never mind a frontend/backend solution. you won't be happy.

as a point of reference, an appletv has just about the minimum horsepower required to be a decent frontend. It has a 1ghz pentium m and a nvidia go 7300 gpu.

I'm building a test box to see if the SO can operate a MythTV based box, and live with it if we turn off the DTiVo we have. It's an old clunker of a box (PII-550); I just want a proof-of-concept.
Suggestions?

If you're wondering if your wife will like it I'll tell you a little story. About 2 years ago I finally decided to build a myth box because it was the cheapest way to get digital TV and be able to record it. Once I got it going and it was great, I decided to add a slave to TV I usually watch TV on instead of a single box. that worked great too. So I dunmped the other five recorders I had stacked up there and asked the wife if she wanted one on her TV. Being a complete non computer user, her answer was no, so I bought here a seperate ATSC receiver and hooked it up. She really liked that since all the stations that were terrible in NTSC were crystal clear now. I also hooked one of the old DVR's to her TV and programmed the remote to operate everything hooked to it. The problem was she couldn't keep track of what mode the remote was in, what she was controlling or anything. I'd have to straighten it out for her at least 2 or 3 times a night. And forget recording, since she had to set the ATSC tuner to a channel and then set the recorder to record from the component inputs, etc, etc., etc. In other words she got lost and ruined my time having to straighten it out. I finally got fed up with it, removed all the crap on her TV and replaced it with another frontend mythtv box and told here shed havce to live with it. Having multiple tuners (6 now) we never watch live TV. Now there's no input changing on the TV. It always stays on the same input from the mythtv box. Nothing to screw up there (normally). Nothing else to do but turn on the TV and the mythtv box and select Media Lib rary from the main myth menu, then select Watch Recordings from that menu and then select the recording she wants to watch. if you tried to take her mythtv away from her today, you better have a bullet proof vest on. And she only has an SDTV. I offered to get her a new HDTV but she tells me to just leave her stuff alone now. I'm more than happy to.:-) I left one VCR hooked up to her TV. It hasn't been on once since.

I just picked up a slightly used Hauppauge WinTV-150 for $33 on Ebay. The Hauppauge cards are the best standard definition mpeg2 cards for MythTV. They're supported via the ivtv driver. We used to have the Dish Network pvr and it was very basic. I also had a Panasonic DVD recorder which was a basic recorder. MythTV blows all of those away. We love the fact that we can all of the following from our Mythbox:
- listen to our music collection (shared via NFS from my server)
- look at our photo collection
- watch a bunch of IPTV videos (over the network)
- watch home movies over the network
- look at our netflix queue
- read our RSS feeds
- rip new audio CDs and archive them on the server (in ogg, flac or mp3)
- check out our local weather
- play old school games (Atari, NES)
- archive old shows to DVD or move them to the server (in xvid format)
- record tv shows and watch them (while automatically skipping the commercials)
- add shows to our record queue remotely if we forgot to set it up

Migrating to HD in the future should be easy(once you get an HD TV):
- record HD content content from the cable box via firewire
- add an HD DVD drive (once the format war is over and the prices drop)
- add an additional drive for more storage

I will second wnewell's opinion. MythTV isn't really about being cheaper, but being a better solution. If you look at it from a per tuner/recorder cost perspective, the more tuners you want, the cheaper MythTV looks in comparison. It's probably a toss up on a 1-2 tuner box, but in my situation 5 tuners (2 SD & 3 HD) I don't think I've paid anymore than I would have if I had multiple tivos, but it works so much better, has more storage capacity, and is easier to use.

I too started my MythTV adventure with zero Linux/MythTV experience. There was a pretty steep learning curve regarding getting it all set up. In my case it would have probably been significantly easier at the beginning if I had started with KnoppMyth or MythDora. While I don't think even these distros are plug and play in all situations, they are the closest thing to it for MythTV.

There is some "work" involved in setting up and tweaking any MythTV system, and that is one of the reasons I had previously stated that I would advise against a PII as a starting point. It just isn't worth going through the trouble and headaches to try to get everything working on a box that just doesn't have the power to be a "production" box. As you expand the system, tuners and hard drives is what end up being the majority of the cost. The MB/processor tends to be one of the smaller expenditures, yet it is probably one of the most important when building a stable, expandable Myth box. Thinking ahead regarding motherboard support for SPDIF out for surround sound, extra PCI slots for additional tuners,etc can make life easier in the long run as you expand the system. An underpowered box lead to all sorts of issues, especially when trying to use some of the more "advanced" features of MythTV like transcoding or commercial skip, not to mention adding HDTV.

I think the choice of going with MythTV depends more on your family's viewing habits, and if having a more effective solution is worth the "work" to set up a MythTV system. For me, I didn't realize how much I really enjoyed my Myth setup until I stay a week with friends w/o one. I just can't go back to watching TV the old way.

I've come the the conclusion that a side-effect of MythTV is that it causes you to to have TV-attention-deficit-disorder. :) I can't stand scheduling my viewing for when something is broadcast or sitting through commericals anymore. With my Myth box, all my TV viewing is on-demand now, without the additional cost of digital cable I might add. I can't remember the last time we watched TV 'live.' I never miss a show I want to watch. I never have to sit through a commercial and I watch what I want, whenever I want. I always have a couple hundred shows to choose from whenever I'm in the mood to watch TV. I'm still getting caught up on first-run shows I taped this past season instead of watching the junk they stick on during the summer rerun season.

MythTV has gotten a somewhat misleading reputation of being a super cheap solution. A multi-tuner MythTV system will be cheaper when compared to a similar setup with MCE/Vista for example, because the hardware requirements are significantly less. For example, for HDTV with MCE/Vista, you need a more state of the art video card ($100+). For MythTV, you can get away with $25 used Nvidia 5200 or 6200. My 5 tuner Myth backend is based on a $100 used Athlon 3200+ MB/processor I bought off e-bay a year ago. You can't do that with MCE/Vista. To allow for faster commercial editing/transcoding, etc. I'm getting ready to upgrade my backend to an out-of-production Althon X2 processor which is on clearance at Tigerdirect, for the whopping cost of $65. Since my backend is on 24/7, I also use my backend as a home network file server and backup solution for the other PCs in the house, something you can't do with a Tivo.

If you just want to open a box and set it up, then I would say just stick with Tivo. If you would enjoy learning Linux and doing a little tweaking, etc then MythTV can be a great system. Once set up, it is super-stable and has many more features than a Tivo system. Personally I think comparing the cost of Tivo and MythTV is comparing apples and oranges. Feature-wise, I think MythTV is a bargain.

Thanks to everyone who has replied with constructive suggestions. I agree that Myth _can_ do more than Tivo, but to be honest the only thing my Dtivo doesn't do (which is feature deficient wrt even SO tivos) is allow me to easily archive mpeg2 shows to HD. Of course, mine does, but a couple times a year I spend 3-4 hours of frustration getting that "feature" back.

I did find a tuner in my box-o-stuff, but it's not supported (a Haup. WinTV USB) - drat. Again, I'm was not looking for a smooth working solution, just a simple demo to see if we like/can use the interface (scheduling is key). I'm still looking for a good interface for the main server, though, so... Anyway, I'll keep an eye out for a 150 (or 250 or 350). Since we have Dtivos, the responsiveness of anything - even a P3-550 - will be better than the STBs she's dealing with. If I can prove the interface is friendly enough (from a select, play, schedule) point of view, then I can justify the funds for a "real" machine.

(PS - I did just read about the tivo S3L that's due "soon." I'd like to avoid the recurring fees, which is part of what makes myth so attractive, but...well, we'll see)

I have a Hauppauge PVR-250 card that I use in my Windows XP PC. I have it connected to my DirecTV (D*) STB (S-Video & L/R audio) and use it for recording TV programs. When I get my Linux box finished, it should work the same.

I schedule the shows with the D* STB and just hit the record button on the 250's software - WinTV2000 for Windows (I could use the programming software, but I haven't bothered). The ASTC tuner is only needed if you connect the RF input to your OTA antenna (if you have one). OTA HD programming uses ATSC, so the PVR-150/250 won't work (you need something like the HDhomerun, or equivalent, with an ATSC tuner).

See http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Category:Video_capture_cards for video capture cards that can be used with Linux.

You do need a lot of HDD space for recording. A mpeg 2, DVD quality, recording requires about 2.5GB/hour (as 480i). I have an internal 500GB SATA drive and an external 400GB eSATA drive for saving my recordings (I've got about 750GB of videos so far, mostly 2 hour shows) - and that's after editing out the commercials (about 300-400MB/2 hour show). I use a cheap, frame accurate editor for the commercial editing. BTW, recording HD programs as 720p or 1080i (in mpeg 2 format) takes about twice that space (mpeg 4 encoding cuts that by about 25%).

I also have a Panasonic DMR-EH75V. which can do the same thing. However, my PC setup works a lot smoother and the editing is 1000% easier and more accurate).

IMO, use the hardware you have plus a used PVR150 card to do your "proof of concept".

If it doesn't pan out, you can use the PCR150 in an Xp box or resell it for what you paid.

We love the fact that we can all of the following from our Mythbox:

- listen to our music collection (shared via NFS from my server)
- look at our photo collection
- watch a bunch of IPTV videos (over the network)
- watch home movies over the network
- look at our netflix queue
- read our RSS feeds
- rip new audio CDs and archive them on the server (in ogg, flac or mp3)
- check out our local weather
- play old school games (Atari, NES)
- archive old shows to DVD or move them to the server (in xvid format)
- record tv shows and watch them (while automatically skipping the commercials)
- add shows to our record queue remotely if we forgot to set it up

Migrating to HD in the future should be easy(once you get an HD TV):
- record HD content content from the cable box via firewire
- add an HD DVD drive (once the format war is over and the prices drop)
- add an additional drive for more storage

Funny thing is, a stock XP load with Firefox, PVR150 with included WinTv2000 software (now allows remote scheduling over the net), and other free tools does everything in the list, except perhaps commercial skipping and automated xvid transcoding.

While I am a big FOSS/Linux/alternative OS supporter, I want to hear more functional reasons why Myth is a great choice- though I guess achieving all this at no software cost (no counting illegal XP loads...) is a big reason...

With the release of the Tivo HD at $299, my question is "why should I stay with MythTV over Tivo?"

The cost (including prepaid 3 year subscrition for the Tivo) is very close. I may have even spent more on my Myth boxes to get them to their current "stable" state.

Commercial skipping, multi-room viewing of TV recordings (currently disabled in Tivo HD), and scheduling across more than 2 tuners are the features in MythTV that I'd miss the most. My wife really likes the commercial skipping feature, even if it is only 95% accurate...

Installation, upgrades, and maintenance is the big advantage of Tivo. Once you get passed the Cable Card install, there is not much burden on the user. MythTV has eaten many, many hours of my free time to get things stable. I read the Gossamer and Knoppmyth forums to keep current. With our second child due in a couple of months, I'm not sure if I'm gonna have the free time to keep up the Myth box.

Then there's the "learning linux" factor, one of the main reasons I started with Myth. There is also a sense of pride/accomplishment with doing something yourself. But after six months, I think I may be ready to just back over to Tivo...

Chris