Hello All...

I stumbled across this forum many months ago while looking for info on my RPTV. I've been lurking and learning, with the hope of someday being to pass on knowledge that I gain to other folks in my (current) position in the future. My curiosity got the better of me and...well...I wandered into the FP forums...and it didn't take long until I had the bug. Now I've got the itch to build a HT!! And I'm excited at the prospect, and hoping to not completely screw it up.

So, I've done lots of reading, both on projectors and screens.

I really would like to go AS LARGE AS POSSIBLE with my screen. Info on the room:

Room dimensions: 18'5" x 15' x 7'10" ceiling
Seating: Back row (elevated 1 foot): 16'6" Front Row: 10'6"' (does 6' spacing seem right?). Probably either 5 seats in the back and 4 in the front or 4/3.
Screen Location: on one of the 15'walls
Screen size: 135"??? (would love to go this big if reasonable without image suffering badly, esp from front row)
Lighting: Basement room with doors and two small "basement windows" (15"H x 30"W or so)...I can EASILY control the light in the room to be near pitch black anytime I want.
Walls: Medium beige
Ceiling: White acoustic-type (rough surface) drop ceiling, with white supports on 2' centers. The white supports are metal (reflective), on 2' centers in both directions, and about 3/4" wide. Painting the drop ceiling is a bad option for me...the ceiling is expensive, was here when I moved in (and I've been unable to locate matching replacement tiles), and matches the rest of the finished basement.
Flooring: Beige carpet

As far as projectors, I've narrowed it down (I think :) ) to:
Epson Home Cinema 400 vs Optoma HD70 vs Mitsubishi HD1000U

Looks like I can get any of them for well under $1K (after applicable rebates), so difference in price amongst the 3 isn't really a factor.

Use will be for DVDs and DirecTV HD-DVR...very little SD programming. Would love to not have it an absolute necessity to make the room completely dark to use it.

Some questions that come to mind (and I've run across various opinions in the (what seems like) thousands of threads that I've read:

Which projector would you choose for my application (and why)?

I'm fine with either painting the walls (flexible on color) or hanging fabric (if that's a better solution and can be done at a reasonable cost) that looks decent. Best option for walls?

The ceiling...current thought is maybe some kind of black fabric on the 4-feet of the ceiling closest to the screen, and leaving the rest alone...other options?

Regarding the screen...will almost definitely be a DIY job. I've learned a lot from the threads in that sub-forum...bud, wbassett, prof Garry, pbmaxx, MM, (I know I'm leaving some regulars out...my apologies) etc...would have enjoyed learning from this wizard named "tiddler" too, but he and his posts seem to have magically disappeared. What's up with that? :confused:

Back to the screen...I don't know what kind of gain I'll need. If I can go with a screen as large as I want to, it may preclude me from using a simple gray solution...may need some of that magic dust to increase gain. Or maybe I'll just get the 3-ply material off of ebay (they have it in both gray and white, I believe...and people seem to like it. I have a feeling the screen will take some experimentation, and I'm OK with that (in fact I'd rather enjoy the time away from the wife and kids). That being said, I would LOVE any suggestions of screens, especially screen suggestions that are based on any experience you have with the projector that you think I should get (and hopefully recommended above).

I do have a question about screen substrates. It seems that BOC maxes out at 54" wide, and a 135" screen (should that size be blessed by the forum experts) is 66" tall. So, I would obviously need to find another substrate. What options are there for screens this large if I paint it?

For a 135" screen, I could have the top 8" from the ceiling and the bottom 24" from the carpet. Is that crazy to have a screen that low? I think that with a 1-foot (or less, if I can get away with it) platform for the rear row would allow both rows to see the full screen, so is there any other drawbacks from going that low. I know that I have to get my kids to keep their grubby mitts off of the screen.

Any good options for low-level ambient lighting that won't effect the screen image (at least have very little effect)? I'm thinking of maybe some upward-shooting sconces on the long walls (on a dimmer)? It would be nice to have "controlled" lighting when desired, if it wouldn't kill the image.

I better stop rambling now, and start listening. I'd love to hear any/all suggestions that you have for me, regarding any aspect of my foray into home theat-ing (it's a new word). I'm particular interested in the thoughts/plans/questions that I've posed, but please don't let that limit the content of any advice that you're willing to share with an eager learner.

Anyone?

Welcome to AVS and beginning to post and seeing as how you mentioned me by name I’ll be the first to reply.

You did a great job of explaining what you have and where you want to go and if you haven’t read the threads linked in my signature, I was you about a year and a half ago and what I did as I faced down the same challenges you look forward to I wrote about them in these threads. Keep in mind these are the way I did things and what worked for me others will have other suggestions and there is no wrong answer sometimes.

GO BIG, don’t worry about the rules go as big as you think you can and want. Try and get some lumens into the picture also because big takes some power. If you want to have some ambient light on lumens help you there also.

http://www.practical-home-theater-guide.com/contrast-ratio.html

The above is a must read before you begin.

Keep this thread active throughout your whole project and ask and receive advice here it will help a lot of others doing the same thing to follow along.

Don’t look at the project as a whole and think you have to plan it to completion. I think first timers do best when they experiment their way thru the process.

Post back and we’ll do our best to help you without confusing you ok. :D

Thanks for the encouragement, Bud! And, yes I've read through all of the threads in your sig and learned a lot. I identify with where you were not so long ago...and I think it will be a blast getting this project moving.

And thanks for the link to the HT guide...that I have not read and will do so tonite.

What do you think of the 3 projectors that I mentioned as far as getting a bright enough image on a 135" screen?

The ceiling...current thought is maybe some kind of black fabric on the 4-feet of the ceiling closest to the screen, and leaving the rest alone...other options?

As I read various construction related posts on this forum one thought keeps popping into my mind. Are people considering fire safety when they chose materials for their projects? I've seen a number of ideas tossed out that seemed to be a bit dangerous as far as fire was concerned. I keep thinking of that Road Island night club that glued packing foam on the walls as a sound treatment, only to have it result in many deaths.

I just finished my relatively modest basement theater project and one decision I made was to spend the bucks for a black dropped ceiling. I originally considered buying white and painting it but reading the manufacturers recommendations for this material I noticed that they specifically state that painting their tile will void it's fire rating. So I decided to pay for black tile. It was a bit hard to find but the results are nice.

Incidentally, I did not have the recommended clearance above the suspended ceiling, but was able to get it up with no major problems. The trick was to set the tiles as I put up the grid. It would be impossible to remove most of the center tiles now without pulling the whole thing down, but I can move enough panels to allow access to cables etc. as needed.

I wish I had the same width room as you do! My HT is a little longer (just over 21') but because it is over the garage the room is only about 10' 6" wide and the pitch of the ceiling / walls is steep. This keeps me from having as much seating across as I would like.

My ceiling height is similar to yours though and I have a Mitsi HD1000 that is great. Because of the pitch of the ceiling the max size screen I could put up is 92". I bought the HD1000 back in January 07 as a package deal with a 92" fixed Mustang screen and fixed mount (really needed an adjustable mount that I could upgrade to for $45.00). I got all of that including shipping for right at $1300. I have not checked prices lately but I am sure if anything it would be lower now.

When we bought our home last summer I knew I was going to make this room the HT so we painted it a dark beige. The carpet is a fairly light beige. I have a Lumen's remote control dimmer on the ceiling light fixture. I have it programmed to almost completely dim with just a slight warm glow when viewing.

The results are amazing. It is a budget HT that blows people away. I have it hooked up to a DISH network VIP622 HD satellite receiver / DVR and Toshiba A2 HD DVD player. My next purchase will be one of the new Onkyo receivers coming out with 1.3 HDMI inputs / outputs to replace my JVC component receiver. Right now I have the HDMI cables from both the VIP622 and Toshiba A2 routed through a monoprice 2x1 HDMI manual switcher and it's ouput going to the HD1000 proj. I would not change anything I did with the budget I had.

I don’t know if I can help much on the projector end. I will tell you after a lot of reading you should take the manufactures rated CR and Lumen numbers with a grain of salt. They are vastly inaccurate and used more for marketing than anything else it seems. The projector central reviews and others that measure the real numbers are a better source of information, that and reading the threads specific to each projector and getting a feel for what others are getting.

Know what you want your outcome to be before you start. My desire was to have a huge IMAX feel to my room. I wanted a 4:3 screen for classic movies and IMAX content. That’s not for everyone. I wanted a lights out knock your socks off foot lambert movie experience and also a turn up the lights UFC fight night media room for the guys. A bunch of guys don’t want to watch a game from theater seats at least I didn’t so I went for a wide circular seating with room for beer and pizzas. Also not everyone’s cup of tea. Plan for bulb dimming from the beginning with your setup is always good advice also. Leave yourself room to adjust when the time comes. Its been my experience that as many seats as I ever thought I would need are not enough. I’m in the process of building a hidden balcony section now that will hold 6 more antique seats (circa 1930) I just found that came from the local Warner theater in my town. What I will end up having is a curtain that will open behind main viewing area and a small step up to the new (old) seats. My point is make your room fit your needs and make it personal. I told the Mrs. She has the say in the rest of the house this is the “Man’s Room”. That plan didn’t hold water long once they saw the spectacular PQ down stairs. But it lasted long enough Martha Stewart didn’t have a say in the décor…. :eek: :D

On the issue of fire safety and safety in general in home theaters that’s really a good point. I have done a lot of reading here and haven’t seen much talked about safety. One issue is lots of people are starting with a raw unfinished basement and DIY the walls ceiling an the rest. I’m willing to bet 99% of these basement theaters have only one enter and exit point. I have several smoke alarms in place but after reading the comment above I’m putting an extinguisher on my shopping list. Projectors get very warm and everyone should keep that unit out in free air. Almost all manufactures of all products now a days have disclaimers about altering their products. I would still use common sense as to what I altered and the apparent risk. I have never personally liked all the fabric coverings but others really like that look. The fabrics should be selected wisely as to fire ratings. Wiring if you don’t know what you are doing get a pro. Is my advice. There are lots of DIY brother in laws out there that are going to tell you I can run a couple circuits for you. if you are not sure error on the side of safety. When boxing in the basement room pay attention to code and what is on the other side of the walls also.

Great post about safety. Maybe consider starting a thread in one of the DIY forums… :)

Thanks for the encouragement, Bud! And, yes I've read through all of the threads in your sig and learned a lot. I identify with where you were not so long ago...and I think it will be a blast getting this project moving.

And thanks for the link to the HT guide...that I have not read and will do so tonite.

What do you think of the 3 projectors that I mentioned as far as getting a bright enough image on a 135" screen?

With your ceiling height, the HD1000 and HD70 will put your 135" screen about 6 inches from the floor. The Epson is your only option FROM YOUR LIST. The Panasonic AX100 is another option for that screen size in your environment.

It’s widely debated if a little angle and keystone adjustment is that bad for your PQ. My thoughts are don’t do it if you don’t have to for sure. And my setup was really limited because my ceilings are only 6’4” and I wanted a 6’ high screen and zero keystone in a budget ceiling mounted setup.

Even though I didn’t use keystone I played around with tilting the projector and then correcting with a good deal of keystone and it was pretty hard to detect on movie content. So you will have to be your own judge as to how much a purest you want to be. Best to seek out a projector that wont require it though. One not on your list that I have been looking at (lower offset) is the Sharp DT-500. I’m not pushing that projector at all but when you view the specs on it you will see the difference in the drop heights that are out there.

I guess you have to decide DLP or LCD before anything else.

I think the screen size of 135 inches is really limiting the options. Most PJs are in the mid-single digits for footLamberts at that size. At 110 inches, many more PJs have plenty of light.

One not on your list that I have been looking at (lower offset) is the Sharp DT-500.

Better yet...get the Marantz VP-4001. A big brother of the DT-500. I just got one and my jaw is on the floor still at the PQ this thing puts out. Check the specs, very impressive and can be had for less than the DT-500 at the moment.

Wow, thanks for everyone's input! Nice to come home to lots of advice. :)

Notlad: Have you thought about painting the walls dark? I know the consensus is that it can really help. That being said, I guess if you and everyone who comes to your HT is already blown away, then one could ask what's the point...maybe you could be "more blown away"?

Bud: Yeah, I'm reading but not putting a whole lot of weight in the manufacturer's specs. I've found projectorreviews to be great for giving the measured performance (light output, etc).

reconlabtech: Agreed...actually after I posted the OP I noticed the constraints of mounting the other two without putting the image on the floor. Definitely has me leaning towards the Epson and their $500 rebate deal. Trying to avoid using keystone control via tilting the projector...clearly their are projection options out there that allow me to avoid using keystone correction, so that is definitely what I plan to do. I'll have to check out the DT-500 and VP-4001's to see how much mounting flexibility they provide.

Regarding screen size, my intent is to get a projector that has a good chance of being capable of providing enough light for a 135" image. But, I won't settle on the final screen size until I get the projector in and play with it for a bit. I need to see for myself how the image looks from the front row....and then will downsize if need be due to lack of image quality at 135". My hope, though is that the 135" size will work out. :fingers_crossed:

OK, based on the flexibility of mounting position for my application, I've added another projector candidate to the mix. At this point I will be choosing between:

Epson Home Cinema 400 - ~$800
Panasonic PT-AX100U - ~$1300

I'm having a difficult time making my mind up between these two. One big concern is SDE at 10.5' for a 135" screen, which makes me lean toward the Panny. On the other hand, the $500 difference in price makes the Epson awfully attractive.

Thoughts on these two?

My personal feeling is that a 135" screen at around 10 feet is going to result in the "front row at the movies" effect which means that you will have to turn your head in order to see the whole screen.

Plus even with 1080p projector at that size, you will see the pixel structure pretty easily.

But some like the effect of your whole field of vision being the screen, I just happen to dislike having to move head in order to watch the whole screen..

Reedl

I agree with reedl. There are various schools of thought about max screen size or if there even is such a thing ;-) Most people turn to FP to get rid of the limitation of screen size from RP. But when is big too big?

Optimally, I prefer to have the screen just big enough in my field of vision without the need to turn my head. However, limitations such as throw ratio, brightness and various standards kick in and determine the true screen size for the most part.

Great post about safety. Maybe consider starting a thread in one of the DIY forums… :)

Thanks - I just started writing for your recommended post. I'll be sure to mention the electrical issue you brought up as well.