I have a Electrohome Marquee 8500 with a 106" diagonal (16:9) screen in my personal theater, and I love it.

I am looking into the possibility of building out a very large theater room, with a screen size somewhere around 220" diagonal, also 16:9.

I am looking for recommendations for projectors to use in such a large room. This is just the very beginning of a planning stage, so anything is possible at this point in terms of actual room size, seating, projector placement, etc.

The Sony G90 and Electrohome Marquee 9500LC Ultra are two that spring to mind. Non-CRT projectors are possibilites as well, but I'm just not that familiar with what's out there that can be used in such a large room.

I would expect the theater to get heavy use, mostly for movies, but possibly also for HD sporting events, other HD non-movie content, and maybe even Xbox 360 or PS3 play (but to a much lesser degree).

I appreciate any suggestions, advice or previous experiences you can give me.

Thanks!

-Carl

At 220" diagonal you are looking at two G90 stacked on a 2.0 or higher gain screen if you want to keep it CRT, a curved screen or torus would also help.

With digitals you are pretty much stuck with 3 chip DLPs but I think you'd rather ask about these in the appropriate forum.

BTW: We usually measure our screen width - diagonal is for TV's :)

Hello

That is huge at eighteen feet diagonal; if your preference is to stay in CRT then perhaps edge blending two Marquees would suit you:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=830979&page=3&pp=30

The setup:
http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/3908/blend001oq2.jpg

This one will give you an idea of the size:
http://img390.imageshack.us/img390/8731/blend017tc8.jpg

And this one shows the great detail:
http://img463.imageshack.us/img463/243/blend012mx6.jpg

Hello

A member here, Damon, has a blend system going up near Dallas this summer, I am sure he would welcome you to a rollout party at some point.

At 220" diagonal you are looking at two G90 stacked on a 2.0 or higher gain screen if you want to keep it CRT, a curved screen or torus would also help.

With digitals you are pretty much stuck with 3 chip DLPs but I think you'd rather ask about these in the appropriate forum.

BTW: We usually measure our screen width - diagonal is for TV's :)

Thanks for the prompt reply! I just recently read a review of a stacked G90 setup that Curt saw that looked pretty interesting. I wouldn't have previously considered something like that, but I definitely will now.

I'll post a similar question to the digital projector experts out there to see what they say.

And a friend of mine just gave me a brilliant solution of having a separate projector dedicated for gaming so the good stuff is solely used for movies and HD content.

Ah yes, I should have said 192" wide. :)

-Carl

Hello

A member here, Damon, has a blend system going up near Dallas this summer, I am sure he would welcome you to a rollout party at some point.

Thanks for the pictures and suggestion of a blend system. I'll definitely look more into that solution. I'd love to see one in action, so count me in for driving up to Dallas for a rollout party when Damon has one. :)

Thanks for the prompt reply! I just recently read a review of a stacked G90 setup that Curt saw that looked pretty interesting. I wouldn't have previously considered something like that, but I definitely will now.

I'll post a similar question to the digital projector experts out there to see what they say.

And a friend of mine just gave me a brilliant solution of having a separate projector dedicated for gaming so the good stuff is solely used for movies and HD content.

Ah yes, I should have said 192" wide. :)

-Carl

Hi, I'm the guy with the G90 stack. :)

At 16 foot wide you are really going to be pushing it for even a blend if you want to get good light output (10+ foot lamberts). If your willing to sacrifice light output then the CRT route will be fine.

If I was going to do a screen that big though, it would have to be 3 chip 1080P DLP for me.

Cliff

Hi, I'm the guy with the G90 stack. :)

At 16 foot wide you are really going to be pushing it for even a blend if you want to get good light output (10+ foot lamberts). If your willing to sacrifice light output then the CRT route will be fine.

If I was going to do a screen that big though, it would have to be 3 chip 1080P DLP for me.

Cliff

Thanks for your input Cliff. I'd love to see your stacked G90 setup in action.

I'm not definitely set on going with a CRT, as this is the very early stages of planning this out. I just love CRTs. All 3 devices in my house are CRT based: Marquee 8500 in the theater, Pioneer Elite Pro-730HD in the living room, and a Philips 30" widescreen CRT HD TV in the bedroom. :)

-Carl

Generally stacks are considered better for 16:9, and blends are better for 2.35:1. You get maximum phosphor use that way. But that's a pretty big screen for a stack. 192" wide 16:9 would be 192x108. That's 144 square feet -- yikes! To get a minimum of 10 ftL on that size of screen you would need 144*10 = 1440 lumens. Two G90's could deliver that many PEAK lumens easily, but not ANSI lumens. G90's are rated at about 300 ANSI lumens, and 500 "all white" lumens, whatever that is.

A pair of G90's or 9500LC's might cut it, but it's going to be a low-ish light level. If you want a good bright image on a screen that large, you might be forced to go digital. See this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=863898) for a discussion of a G90 stack owner who has just switched to a hella-bright digital for his large screen.

I envy you! And your friends. :)

Thanks for your input Cliff. I'd love to see your stacked G90 setup in action.

I'm not definitely set on going with a CRT, as this is the very early stages of planning this out. I just love CRTs. All 3 devices in my house are CRT based: Marquee 8500 in the theater, Pioneer Elite Pro-730HD in the living room, and a Philips 30" widescreen CRT HD TV in the bedroom. :)

-Carl

Ha!!!! Sounds just like my house!!!!!! :D ;)

It must be nice to say with pride," Eye am the GUY with the Geeee90 stack!". It feels sooo good when those words roll off ones lips. :)

That is an extremely large screen. I believe that what Cliff has throws what is perhaps the best picture overall on the planet on a 10' wide screen. But if I were shopping and was only in the research phase as you are this would be the projector..........Projection Design's M80

http://gallery.avsforum.com/data/508/F80.JPG

This beauty claims 50,000:1 on/off at between 1500 and 2000 ANSI lumens and 800:1 ANSI contrast. If you are willing to accept lower contrast you can get up to 8000 lumens.

Even with an 18' wide screen you would light it up brighter than a plasma in torch mode.

Art

That is an extremely large screen. I believe that what Cliff has throws what is perhaps the best picture overall on the planet on a 10' wide screen. But if I were shopping and was only in the research phase as you are this would be the projector..........Projection Design's M80

This beauty claims 50,000:1 on/off at between 1500 and 2000 ANSI lumens and 800:1 ANSI contrast. If you are willing to accept lower contrast you can get up to 8000 lumens.

Even with an 18' wide screen you would light it up brighter than a plasma in torch mode.

Art

I am really looking foward to the final numbers on that beast. Just a great view of things to come........ ;)

Things are changing so fast.

Cliff

Deronmoped runs a ~170" screen with a single NEC PG10. But he is using a very high gain custom silver screen.

That is an extremely large screen. I believe that what Cliff has throws what is perhaps the best picture overall on the planet on a 10' wide screen. But if I were shopping and was only in the research phase as you are this would be the projector..........Projection Design's M80

This beauty claims 50,000:1 on/off at between 1500 and 2000 ANSI lumens and 800:1 ANSI contrast. If you are willing to accept lower contrast you can get up to 8000 lumens.


Wow, what a beast! I'd imagine you're looking at 6 figures for that?

Nobody really knows yet, but one site said "it's readily being described as 'fearsomely' and 'stratospherically' expensive" ...

Fearsome. I think it's safe to assume that's outside my budget. :)

Nobody really knows yet, but one site said "it's readily being described as 'fearsomely' and 'stratospherically' expensive" ...

Fearsome. I think it's safe to assume that's outside my budget. :)


OH! Cubic Dollars! Or, if you are familiar with Hydro and Civil Engineering, Dollar-Feet!

I guess if the OP is seriously talking G90s or Marquees, money probably isn't an object. However, if it is, and if the room has sufficient throw length, the venerable Sanyo PLV70 is pretty nice. It has plenty of lumens - of course, doesn't look as nice as 9" CRT, but they are dirt cheap in comparison, and what it lacks in contrast, it at least partially makes up in sheer brightness. I have run 12' wide with one, no problem. Could have easily gone larger, but room was too short.

Maybe pick one up, just to get the project started - give you something to watch and enjoy while waiting for the perfect deal to show up with crts.

£50,000 and available late 07 or early next year.
I believe the price includes in-house or trained staff installation but not sure about that.

I guess if the OP is seriously talking G90s or Marquees, money probably isn't an object. However, if it is, and if the room has sufficient throw length, the venerable Sanyo PLV70 is pretty nice. It has plenty of lumens - of course, doesn't look as nice as 9" CRT, but they are dirt cheap in comparison, and what it lacks in contrast, it at least partially makes up in sheer brightness. I have run 12' wide with one, no problem. Could have easily gone larger, but room was too short.

Maybe pick one up, just to get the project started - give you something to watch and enjoy while waiting for the perfect deal to show up with crts.

The budget for this project hasn't been set yet, which is why I'm doing this very early planning. The budget will be fairly large, so anything is an option at this point. I'm looking for a solution that will be truly impressive. One that any of us here would enjoy more than any commercial theater.

I may end up trying several different options over time as well, but I need somewhere to start. :)

-Carl

The budget for this project hasn't been set yet, which is why I'm doing this very early planning. The budget will be fairly large, so anything is an option at this point. I'm looking for a solution that will be truly impressive. One that any of us here would enjoy more than any commercial theater.

I may end up trying several different options over time as well, but I need somewhere to start. :)

-Carl

Carl,

There is only one commercial theater that I enjoy more than mine........






































IMAX. :)

Cliffy

The budget for this project hasn't been set yet, which is why I'm doing this very early planning. The budget will be fairly large, so anything is an option at this point. I'm looking for a solution that will be truly impressive. One that any of us here would enjoy more than any commercial theater.

I may end up trying several different options over time as well, but I need somewhere to start. :)

-Carl

Carl,
Realistically, for an 18' wide screen, three chip DLP is all there is and the above device, at least on paper will be the best of those.

Art

Carl,
Realistically, for an 18' wide screen, three chip DLP is all there is and the above device, at least on paper will be the best of those.

Art

I would have to disagree. At first glance, 18' wide is too big for CRT.

But when you think about it, that is similar to talking about two 9' wide screens. Or a pair of 108" wide screens.

108" wide is no problem for a 9" CRT projector. And if you were to blend two 9" projectors together, you could easily do 18' wide.
It won't be 100% videophile quality, but if you like CRT's then I imagine it will have just as much quality as a single 9" on a ~110" wide screen and look better overall than the alternatives. Not as bright, but certainly bright enough.

With all that said, I think my personal choice would be digital for a screen size that large. It simply crosses a CRT line that I'm not willing to cross, unless I have someone like Chuchuf or Doug Baisey on my personal payroll.

I would have to disagree. At first glance, 18' wide is too big for CRT.

But when you think about it, that is similar to talking about two 9' wide screens. Or a pair of 108" wide screens.

108" wide is no problem for a 9" CRT projector. And if you were to blend two 9" projectors together, you could easily do 18' wide.
It won't be 100% videophile quality, but if you like CRT's then I imagine it will have just as much quality as a single 9" on a ~110" wide screen and look better overall than the alternatives. Not as bright, but certainly bright enough.

With all that said, I think my personal choice would be digital for a screen size that large. It simply crosses a CRT line that I'm not willing to cross, unless I have someone like Chuchuf or Doug Baisey on my personal payroll.

Going from 9' wide to 18' wide is an area increase of 4x, not 2x.

CZEd, remember you need something like a 20% blend zone. So you're actually running each CRT 9'/0.8 = 11.25' wide. That's pushing it pretty hard even for a 9"er.

Why is everybody dismissing the option with a screen of some gain ?
Cliff has a 10 ft wide setup with an acoustically transparent screen that has a gain of about 0.8 iirc.
Exchange that for a screen with a gain of two, like the Stewart Ultramatte 200, and you can go up to 16 ft wide at the same brightness level.

At this projection distance you can even go with a slight curve to help with color shift and hot spot, the projection distance allows for it even with a stack.

A big flat screen with a digital is boring - a stack on a curved screen - now that is really something :D

I currently use the Ultramatte 200 on a single curve 12 ft wide screen with my 10PG and the fabric rocks, as does the look of a curved screen.

Why is everybody dismissing the option with a screen of some gain ?
Cliff has a 10 ft wide setup with an acoustically transparent screen that has a gain of about 0.8 iirc.
Exchange that for a screen with a gain of two, like the Stewart Ultramatte 200, and you can go up to 16 ft wide at the same brightness level.

At this projection distance you can even go with a slight curve to help with color shift and hot spot, the projection distance allows for it even with a stack.

A big flat screen with a digital is boring - a stack on a curved screen - now that is really something :D

I currently use the Ultramatte 200 on a single curve 12 ft wide screen with my 10PG and the fabric rocks, as does the look of a curved screen.

Oliver,
I wouldn't dismiss it but seeing Cliff's stack on a screen with about 1.1 gain and mine on my Stewart with 1.8 one can see very quickly that the uniformity difference is a rather striking improvement.

Art

Oliver,
I wouldn't dismiss it but seeing Cliff's stack on a screen with about 1.1 gain and mine on my Stewart with 1.8 one can see very quickly that the uniformity difference is a rather striking improvement.

Art

Art,

that is interesting - I was under the impression that Cliff's screen gain was below 1.0. I know what you mean with regard to brightness uniformity and that is why I suggested to think about a curve - it looks cool and evens out the brightness differences. But I have to agree that if you want to go very big and very bright with an acoustically transparent screen there is nothing like big 3-chip digitals.

Oliver

Art,

that is interesting - I was under the impression that Cliff's screen gain was below 1.0.
Oliver

Oliver,
Ruben claims 1.16 gain on SMX. Other than that I don't know more. SR has a 0.8 fabric screen I believe.


Art

Oliver,
Ruben claims 1.16 gain on SMX. Other than that I don't know more. SR has a 0.8 fabric screen I believe.


Art

Hmmm, the last acoustically transparent screen I measured came out at around 0.8 to 0.9 gain - it claimed to have a 1.3 gain.

Would be cool to know if Ken did some measurements to determine the screen gain.

I second the emotion on Tim's BlendMonster, with a cheapo dinky portable single-chip DLP thrown in for the games.

One benefit to a curved screen should be that your depth-of-focus to the edges stays similar, enhancing the illusion of being in the image.

I would encourage you to go 2.35, I don't see why you feel the need to be so tall...and truly, consider the amount of your field-of-view used for the seating distance...you will fatigue very quickly having to turn your head to follow the action.

It will be overwhelming, and NOT in a good way. Not, at least, after the first month or so of ownership.

You are already a CRT guy, and will not be satisfied with a bulbed projector...and will hate the maintenance upkeep.

Blended projectors operating well within their range will simply hum along...the ones at Tim's were loafing and even with a decent but (admittedly from Tim) quick setup were more engaging than most I've encountered.

Ken's excellent stressful finish to the work Cliffy did on his major setup proved to me that for bigassscreen pleasure, blending on a 2.35 is the way to go.

I've been waiting to see if anyone would do it on a Torus...I really would like to know if my field-of-focus expectation would be met. One less thing for your eye/brain to adjust against, the recreated reality should be so much more amazing.

I second the emotion on Tim's BlendMonster, with a cheapo dinky portable single-chip DLP thrown in for the games.

One benefit to a curved screen should be that your depth-of-focus to the edges stays similar, enhancing the illusion of being in the image.

I would encourage you to go 2.35, I don't see why you feel the need to be so tall...and truly, consider the amount of your field-of-view used for the seating distance...you will fatigue very quickly having to turn your head to follow the action.

It will be overwhelming, and NOT in a good way. Not, at least, after the first month or so of ownership.

You are already a CRT guy, and will not be satisfied with a bulbed projector...and will hate the maintenance upkeep.

Blended projectors operating well within their range will simply hum along...the ones at Tim's were loafing and even with a decent but (admittedly from Tim) quick setup were more engaging than most I've encountered.

Ken's excellent stressful finish to the work Cliffy did on his major setup proved to me that for bigassscreen pleasure, blending on a 2.35 is the way to go.

I've been waiting to see if anyone would do it on a Torus...I really would like to know if my field-of-focus expectation would be met. One less thing for your eye/brain to adjust against, the recreated reality should be so much more amazing.


After reading all of the great responses and doing some more research, I completely agree that I should go with a 2.35:1 screen instead of the 16:9 that I originally posted about. I also think a curved screen would be great. The exact size is still up in the air, but it will be large, ~200" wide.

What kind of maintenance upkeep would a 3 chip DLP projector require that I'd hate? I pretty regularly tweak my CRT to keep it looking great. I imagine that a blended CRT solution would be significantly more work to set up and keep calibrated. The few friends I have with digital projectors don't seem to ever have to do anything to theirs.

Tweaking a CRT is akin to massaging your love.


Replacing a bulb that fails at the least opportune time when the dealer is out-of-stock and your credit card is at it's limit? Don't have that analogy yet.

Maybe bending over to pick up a bar of soap in the prison shower while Big Bubba is right behind you?!? :D

After reading all of the great responses and doing some more research, I completely agree that I should go with a 2.35:1 screen instead of the 16:9 that I originally posted about. I also think a curved screen would be great. The exact size is still up in the air, but it will be large, ~200" wide.

What kind of maintenance upkeep would a 3 chip DLP projector require that I'd hate? I pretty regularly tweak my CRT to keep it looking great. I imagine that a blended CRT solution would be significantly more work to set up and keep calibrated. The few friends I have with digital projectors don't seem to ever have to do anything to theirs.

I love CRT ,on the appropriate screen size it is the king of picture quality but I'm telling you you aren't going to get the bare minimum needed in lumens from two CRTs for that 118 sq ft screen ! If you are hoping 1200 lumens from four that would be at least a reasonable goal with some margin.

Art

I love CRT ,on the appropriate screen size it is the king of picture quality but I'm telling you you aren't going to get the bare minimum needed in lumens from two CRTs for that 118 sq ft screen ! If you are hoping 1200 lumens from four that would be at least a reasonable goal with some margin.

Art

Art, you're right, and the conclusion I've drawn from this thread and the one on the digital high end forum is that a 3 chip DLP is the way to go for my project.

Thanks everyone for your input and suggestions. I greatly appreciate them.

-Carl

For very big screens 3 chip DLP projectors are still the only way to go, preferably 2 of them to get get you to 40-60 K ANSI Lumens. But for medium sized screens like this one (which is only about 6 meters wide), there is also the option of SXRD.

The SRX-110 or 105 (by the project date hopefully 210/205), has nice contrast at the given brightness of 10K+/5K+ (but dimmable to suit need) ANSI lumens. 1800:1 to a peak of a little over 2000:1. Its internal scaler scales from HD to 4K resolution, to feed true 4K or 4 HD individual signals you would need the accompanying server. Anyway, you probably all have read the HT application review from Germany a while ago.

At the ISE show in Amsterdam earlier this year it was the best looking image among the larger screens (about 7 to 8 meters wide). The worst looking picture was the Sanyo 10K lcd (I must admit I would be able to live with such a Sanyo or an Eiki LCD, if forced to), however it was only fed analog RGB. The Barco (couldn't get info on the settings used) and Christie (only running SXGA+ at the time, as they were tinkering), were better. But the Sony was definitly looking better than the DLPs, the added contrast did surely help bring it depth and punch.

The 3D demo with a then new joint-marketing partner, a German simulation company, didn't look too good, though. Something I am sure could be remedied, but fact remains that at the time of the demo it wasn't quite ready yet.

The high contrast glass (given the application this would be the 1.0, not the .6 gain version, but it wasn't indicated) retro projection demo by Stewart, using a nice big Christie 3 chip projector, also made for a really nice picture, in the brightly lit exhibition hall.

Unfortunately I didn't make it to the CEDIA demo theater that day, I was later told there was a really nice 56 Ftl demo using a Runco projector. Due to the poorly organized demo at Sim2 I wasn't able to see the HT5000 3 CHIP HD DLP fed from Bluray, DVD did look good, but it clearly was dvd. So, I did miss a couple of best image on show candidates.

BTW, did anyone here get to go to nxtcom and see the prototype JVC projector based on the new 4K LCoS chips? On/off contrast should be better than the Sony panel.