Owners manual suggests putting in songs with good midbass and adjusting the level to blend with the mains (bookshelf speakers in my case). This is just a very brief and incomplete summary of the directions in the Owners manual. My real question is what are some examples of good, well recorded songs with articulate, noticable, but not overpowering bass? Less interested in jazz examples because I am not really into jazz.

I'd also like some sort of reference list to test out a sub but so far haven't received any responses :(

One suggestion would be to look at subwoofer reviews on sites like www.ecoustics.com where there are many many sub reviews compiled. It's pretty common for them to reference the materials they used for their listening tests.

Ive found that Japanese Rock like Asian Kung Fu Generation is good to kinda get an ear of 80-160hz due to lower guitar/bass, drum tom/foor clarity. (integration of sub to speakers, correct gain, phase, crossover)

Jass with walking bass lines are good for general 60hz-300hz stuff. (subwoofer location)

Ive used some Japanese Trance/Dance/Pop/Rock/Remix stuff to get overall bass balance from 40hz-120hz. (subwoofer location)

I do a quick sine wave sweep with my RS Meter if its with me, or by ear if its not. Generally the sine wave test turns out pretty bad in an untreated room, so compromises have to be made. I try to keep the bass region (30-200hz) within +/- 8 db, but it is inevitable to have some sharp spikes and dips within. With careful (read: long, tiring, patience-filled) manipulation of the subwoofer location, speaker location, crossover(s), phase, gain, distance, you can move some of the problems out of the audible range that is found in your music (by listening to your music). The standing waves cant be helped all that much, so thats just a compromise you will have to accept until you can get some serious room treatments.

Pretty much any song with a good clear mid and lower bass will do. I usually use a wide combination of Rock, Pop, Country, Jazz, and Celtic music. But keep in mind that you should really calibrate your system, (including your sub), with the tones from a good reference disk such as AVIA and an SPL meter first. When you calibrate by ear using music as a reference, you are actually fine tunning to taste after the intial calibration. And the fine tuning should be minute in nature.

Pretty much any song with a good clear mid and lower bass will do. I usually use a wide combination of Rock, Pop, Country, Jazz, and Celtic music. But keep in mind that you should really calibrate your system, (including your sub), with the tones from a good reference disk such as AVIA and an SPL meter first. When you calibrate by ear using music as a reference, you are actually fine tunning to taste after the intial calibration. And the fine tuning should be minute in nature.


True, but in some untreated rooms, the best FR setup isnt the best for stereo imaging. Also, sometimes the FR would be better, but there is more ringing (some music will bring out the ringing more due to quick repeated bass notes).

It takes a lot of going back and forth. I've found that I am willing to sacrifice FR for better imaging and less ringing, but different strokes for different folks...

But, what you said certainly is the "right" way to do things theoretically (by the book).

Pretty much any song with a good clear mid and lower bass will do. I usually use a wide combination of Rock, Pop, Country, Jazz, and Celtic music.


This is my question. What are some good examples of songs with "good clear mid and lower bass."

I like a variety of music, including some very "experimental" rock music. (I won't try to categorize the types of rock music I like because I can no longer keep up with all the genres -- heard any prog/shoegazer/post rock lately? :eek: ) Also like big band era swing, Cajun folk, so-called "classical," some techno...and many others.

I haven't listened to music on a good system for a long time (usually in front of my computer or in the car), and never with a real subwoofer. So instead of going through my collection and trying to judge what might be a good reference song for this purpose, I thought I would ask if anyone has specific songs that fit the bill.

(FWIW, I will eventually integrate an SMS-1 into my system. This particular endeavor is just to get up and running in the simplest way possible.)

Thanks for all the replies so far. :)

This is my question. What are some good examples of songs with "good clear mid and lower bass."

I like a variety of music, including some very "experimental" rock music. (I won't try to categorize the types of rock music I like because I can no longer keep up with all the genres -- heard any prog/shoegazer/post rock lately? :eek: ) Also like big band era swing, Cajun folk, so-called "classical," some techno...and many others.

I haven't listened to music on a good system for a long time (usually in front of my computer or in the car), and never with a real subwoofer. So instead of going through my collection and trying to judge what might be a good reference song for this purpose, I thought I would ask if anyone has specific songs that fit the bill.

(FWIW, I will eventually integrate an SMS-1 into my system. This particular endeavor is just to get up and running in the simplest way possible.)

Thanks for all the replies so far. :)

Any Bela Fleck is great

Owners manual suggests putting in songs with good midbass and adjusting the level to blend with the mains (bookshelf speakers in my case). This is just a very brief and incomplete summary of the directions in the Owners manual. My real question is what are some examples of good, well recorded songs with articulate, noticable, but not overpowering bass? Less interested in jazz examples because I am not really into jazz.

I know you probably know this, but before ear tuning a sub you should tune it with an SPL meter. Ear tuning is horribly unreliable. Then you can ear tune it after that to your liking.

Pat

Jonomega

I checked out Asian Kung Fu Generation on Amazon and am intrigued by the smattering of comments made by reviewers. Tonight, I might try to see if Itunes has samples I can listen to, to find out what the music is like. Any album of theirs that you think would qualify as a good introduction to the band, or perhaps one that stands out as "the best" (in your opinion of course)?

A Japanese band from the late 90's that I am quite fond of is Angel'in Heavy Syrup (interesting name I know--maybe a translation issue.) Ever hear of them? The music is kind of prog/psychedelic for want of a better way to describe it.

This is my question. What are some good examples of songs with "good clear mid and lower bass."

I like a variety of music, including some very "experimental" rock music. (I won't try to categorize the types of rock music I like because I can no longer keep up with all the genres -- heard any prog/shoegazer/post rock lately? :eek: ) Also like big band era swing, Cajun folk, so-called "classical," some techno...and many others.

I haven't listened to music on a good system for a long time (usually in front of my computer or in the car), and never with a real subwoofer. So instead of going through my collection and trying to judge what might be a good reference song for this purpose, I thought I would ask if anyone has specific songs that fit the bill.

(FWIW, I will eventually integrate an SMS-1 into my system. This particular endeavor is just to get up and running in the simplest way possible.)

Thanks for all the replies so far. :)

Well recorded songs are essential, (not that overly compressed stuff that we mostly hear today). Pink Floyd's Comfortably Numb and Run Like Hell are two that I use, (As well as Another Brick in the Wall because it's a personal favorite). Enya's Amarantine is a good one to test for vocals, (and a lot of her songs enable you to fine tune for the full spectrum of frequencies because she uses a lot of instruments). DVD-wise, The Eagles - Hell Freezes over is very good. For low frequency stuff, I've heard The Blue Man Group is pretty good, though I haven't heard their stuff.

You don't tune video or audio with source material. First rule of calibration.

if you're trying to "ear tune" your sub, why not just use your favorite music?

Jonomega

I checked out Asian Kung Fu Generation on Amazon and am intrigued by the smattering of comments made by reviewers. Tonight, I might try to see if Itunes has samples I can listen to, to find out what the music is like. Any album of theirs that you think would qualify as a good introduction to the band, or perhaps one that stands out as "the best" (in your opinion of course)?

A Japanese band from the late 90's that I am quite fond of is Angel'in Heavy Syrup (interesting name I know--maybe a translation issue.) Ever hear of them? The music is kind of prog/psychedelic for want of a better way to describe it.

Ill look into that band. I mainly a The Pillows, AKFG, and a few others. Kimitsunagi Five is pretty good, its an older album, but is pretty good nonetheless. The newer albums are more experimental, which I like, but for straight out j-rock, Kimitsunagi Five does it for me.


Jesse S -- I agree with you, however that is only good if you can do something about the results from the calibration (apply room treatments, EQ, crossover adjustment, phase adjustment). If you cannot fix problems (changing locations can shift problem frequencies around), then compromises have to be made -- compromises which should favor the source material that you listen to the most. This is in my non-professional opinion, of course, you are probably the professional. :)

if you're trying to "ear tune" your sub, why not just use your favorite music?

Suppose my favorite music is piano sonatas, or grunge rock, or...?

Suppose my favorite music is piano sonatas, or grunge rock, or...?

so you want to tune your sub by ear to music you're never going to listen to?

Suppose my favorite music is piano sonatas, or grunge rock, or...?Well, you can tune a piano, but you can't tuna fish.

That's for all us old farts. :)

so you want to tune your sub by ear to music you're never going to listen to?

:eek: I'd be Questioning my sanity if I Did that!! :eek:

so you want to tune your sub by ear to music you're never going to listen to?

No...

I listen to--and enjoy--many different kinds of music, not all of which have "good, articulate bass," or maybe any bass to speak of. I would guess that I wouldn't use one of these types for my described purpose. I said the following as part of an earlier post:

I haven't listened to music on a good system for a long time (usually in front of my computer or in the car), and never with a real subwoofer. So instead of going through my collection and trying to judge what might be a good reference song for this purpose, I thought I would ask if anyone has specific songs that fit the bill.

When I first started this thread I imagined it was a simple question and I would get a lot of "Oh [song x by xxxx] is a well recorded song with great midbass", or "check out stuff by xxxx"

I did get a few of these, though unfortunately no music that I am currently familiar with, except the Pink Floyd (unfortunately I don't have that one on CD, just an old LP). I guess in retrospect it was a shot in the dark. I might have found some new bands to check out though; which is always a good thing.

Maybe if I restated the question as...

Any examples of songs that are good for testing the musicality of a sub?

...I would get more of the type of input I am looking for instead of people just analyzing my rationale.

Songs for me:

311 - Lose

If your sub is too loud the bass guitar on the song will be extremely overwhelming

Jeff Lorber - Sun Ra

Same thing, the bass guitar will be very overwhelming if not matched right.

Bob Marley and The Wailers - Exodus

Bass guitar again.

Steely Dan - Black Cow

The snare drum should be slighlty more powerful than the bass guitar.

The Crystal Method - Busy Child

The bass is meant to be powerful on the track but if it overwhelms the snare drum and rim shot it is WAAAAY too loud.




I could go on for days :D

Notorious B.I.G. - Hypnotize

thanks for the suggestions, if I was to offer my own it would be Phil Collins Finally the First Final Tour - DTS music DVD - has great sounding drum solo as the first track & of course the drum play in Coming in the Air is simply awesome.....

Steely Dan - Babylon Sisters-DTS or DVDA, Listen for the timing of the kick drum and bass guitar.

Porcupine Tree- Blackest Eyes- DTS or DVDA, Really deep kick drums. Careful if you have a dog. There is a section in this song that drives mine crazy. Must be UHF though I don't hear it.

Dazz Band- Let it Whip - Makes me feel all fuzzy over 90 Db :)

If the bass farts or sounds out of control, keep turning down the sub till it stops, and then a little more and you should be close.

Some really good bass and it's a great melow song :)

Incubus - Aqueous Transmission

Pretty much any song that has a real dominant bass guitar like reggae, rap, or techno could be used. As long as the bass isn't overwhelming on these types of music it should be pretty close to being level matched.

But really, an SPL meter is about $40 or cheaper on flea-bay. ;)

Chop Me Up - Justin Timberlake. Great mid-bass. You need to wait until mid-song and it really kicks in.

Pat

The drum battle from the Godsmack Changes dvd. That should give you an idea if your close after calibrating your sub. Plus it's pretty awesome to watch :D

Thanks for all the suggestions. I might have access to some of these songs, particularly Porcupine Tree, Blackest Eyes.

I pulled out Roger Waters - Amused to Death last night and made some adjustments using What God Wants (pt. 2). I could definitely feel the bass as I adjusted the level in my processor. I will play around with it some more with some other songs.

As odd as it may sound, since I have listened to my music for years now exclusively on car stereo and an Altec Lansing four speaker plus "subwoofer" setup designed for computer; I am not sure what accurate bass is supposed to sound like. :o Realistically it may be more or less than what I find appealing, but it would be good to find the baseline (bass line? :p ). I guess this is where the SPL meter comes in, as many have mentioned. I will also in the near future integrate an SMS-1 into the system, which will give me at least some indication of the bass response in my listening position.

The subwoofer can Never Have too much Bass!

The subwoofer can Never Have too much Bass!

If it is set way too high, yes it can. If the sub is playing at 120dB and the rest of your system is at 85dB believe me, there is too much bass.

If it is set way too high, yes it can. If the sub is playing at 120dB and the rest of your system is at 85dB believe me, there is too much bass.


cracky, where do you keep your subs "low pass" crossover at?

Thanks for all the suggestions. I might have access to some of these songs, particularly Porcupine Tree, Blackest Eyes.




Straw_man, forgive me, the song I was remembering was "Deadwing" on the Porcupine Tree "Deadwing" DVDA. The deep bass drum starts about the 3 minute mark.

Sorry for the confusion.

As opposed to HT, for music, you could have a situation where you have too much bass, and it really is not that hard to get into such a situation. You could have a sound that results in low frequency oversaturation, (booming), lack of control, and smearing at low frequencies. An area that is often overlooked is the way that it affects the integration of the sub with your mains in the low mids and upper lows. It really adversely affects the tonalities in those ranges where the sub far dominates the frequencies in the crossover transition region so that you end up with bumps in your mids. For music, you ideally want the sub to complement your mains, not dominate them.

Here are a few songs that's good for sub testing. These should be in original CD, not mp3 format to get the most out of it.

Time after Time - INOJ
Love You Down - INOJ

I'll throw in a music DVD- The Way Up-Live, Pat Methany. Use the DTS track. Some of the best upright bass I have ever heard out of my system.

How 'bout "I Like Big Butts"? :D