Thought this deserved its own thread.

http://www.digitalvd.de/nachrichten/5953.html

Looking good. The VP-15S1 has a higher contrast ration than the VP-11S1, is cheaper, and finally (crossing fingers) has a much lower fan noise at 30db. Though the VP-11S1 was listed on some sites as having a fan noise level of <29db but Greg Rogers measured 50db in its lowest mode so lets hope that it truely is quieter.

Translated by babelfish-

Marantz' (smaller) Full HP DLP projector is located more again in the starting holes: The VP-15S1

Feature:
- Full HD-DLP with 1920x1080-Chip by Texas Instrument (0.95 " like VP-11S1), 1080p (24Hz)
- Excellent video processing GF9351 (like the VP-11S1)
- Large brightness 1000 Ansi Lumen (more than the VP-11S1!)
- Contrast 10.000:1 (Lower Black Level by Zeifach iris, VP-11S1 = 6.500:1)
- New six-segment color wheel (with Frame rate Conversion for extremely small RBE!)
- High-quality objective of Konica Minolta with large vertical Lens Shift (like the VP-11S1)
- 2x HDMI 1.3 and many similar connections
- CI-friendly with RS232
- Volume under 30dB

It will be available for delivery at the end of Septembers for UVP € 8,000

That would be $11,000 US.

How much in US dollars is UVP 8000? Not a trick question.


$11,064 (U.S. dollars) at today's rate.

Jim

Mark around $11000US compared to the $20,000 of the soon to be superseded VP-11S1.

Sorry guys. I punched it into the calculator one I read in another thread that its was Euros. We all posted (me edited) simultaneously. Thanks

UVP in Germany/Europe includes 19% VAT. € 8000.- is unbelievably CHEAP for a state of the art Marantz.

Excluding VAT it is € 6723.- , and in electronics (like most anything else) Euro : Dollar is more like 1:1 when it comes to market prices.

$6500.- to $7000.- MSRP in the US is VERY likely considering this European price.

This is a huge surpise coming from Marantz!

6500.- to $7000.- MSRP in the US is VERY likely considering this European price.

This sounds like a pretty nice challenge at that price. Along with the IN82 some nice looking PJs. 8)

(Thanks JVC!)

Wow, this is great news! Things are finally heating up with the single chip 1080p machines. This can only be good news for all of us...;)

(Thanks sony!)

Fixed that for you. :p

UVP in Germany/Europe includes 19% VAT. € 8000.- is unbelievably CHEAP for a state of the art Marantz.

Excluding VAT it is € 6723.- , and in electronics (like most anything else) Euro : Dollar is more like 1:1 when it comes to market prices.

$6500.- to $7000.- MSRP in the US is VERY likely considering this European price.

This is a huge surpise coming from Marantz!

It would actually be a surprise if Marantz USA actually implements that sort of price. But a very pleasant suprise http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Surprise/surprised-028.gif

so far most often the remains the same: EUR 8000 = $ 8000
like benq, optoma, SIM2, sharp etc.
not always but often.
because the euro = $1.37 and rising vs the European VAT (17-21%)

1000 ansi lumen ! I like that :)

$10/11k is alright. It's marantz. I believe its lens alone is worth the $$. I trust this will have the same quality of the sort of S4.

"I believe its lens alone is worth the $$. I trust this will have the same quality of the sort of S4."

My first thought at seeieng the price was that the lens must account for a good part of it.

And doesn't Marantz usually tout the lens mfgr?

Cool

Thanks for posting this. Made me very excited.
This one might finally be the one to replace my 12S3.

Does it have power lens shift and/or power zoom? Is the 1000 ansi lumens at D6500?

The fan may be 30 db but what about the colorwheel?


They also need to deliver twice the brightness to compete with the Pearl and RS-1...and three chips ;)

Does it have power lens shift and/or power zoom? Is the 1000 ansi lumens at D6500?

I don't think it will be 1000 lumens at D65. However, there is a good chance that it will have somewhere in the region of 700 lumens at D65 which is pretty good going.

------

The improved color wheels of the 1DLP machines has made it harder to spot rainbows, if that.

An increasing trend that is noticeable is that the specs of these newly announced DLP machines shows an increase in CR by quite some margin across the board in the region of 10,000:1 or more. The implementation of this improvement makes it interesting and the first one to get superb CR which is truly optical [projectiondesign was already claiming 7500:1 true optical contrast on their Action! units] rather than with the help of a dynamic iris will lead the pack.

This one looks good on paper for sure and it should be a good projector when it comes out.

Thanks for posting this. Made me very excited.
This one might finally be the one to replace my 12S3.

Frank that is what I thought to as an S3 owner myself.

Frank that is what I thought to as an S3 owner myself.

Even to a S4 owner like me :D

An increasing trend that is noticeable is that the specs of these newly announced DLP machines shows an increase in CR by quite some margin across the board in the region of 10,000:1 or more. The implementation of this improvement makes it interesting and the first one to get superb CR which is truly optical [projectiondesign was already claiming 7500:1 true optical contrast on their Action! units] rather than with the help of a dynamic iris will lead the pack.

This one looks good on paper for sure and it should be a good projector when it comes out.

Is that an increase in native CR or using auto iris or lamp modulation ?

Dazzer

Dazzer,

it is relying upon a iris in a fixed position, although user adjustable.
The Marantz seems to have the "Sharp design" implemented, i.e two-iris in the path to reach this spec. So i guess we are looking at 200-250 lumens in the high CR mode. I dont know what all the buzz is about on this one...i have to say..

I'd have to say that the price is the only thing buzz-worthy here. I agree that the specs aren't anything new and that we'd expect to see sub-300 lumens to come close to the rated CR.

My only real concern is with the throw... most DLP units seem to be suited for long throw applications (which I can't support).

FWIW I understood it to be the replacement for the VP-12s4

FWIW I understood it to be the replacement for the VP-12s4

Either way it would be fine by me :D

Dazzer,
two-iris in the path to reach this spec. So i guess we are looking at 200-250 lumens in the high CR mode..

It is more accurate to say a "two-stops" user selectable iris than "two-iris" and, as it is spec'd at 1,000 ansi lumens, should be alot brighter than your guess of 200-250 lumens in the high CR mode.

I think the VP15S1 is more a replacement for the VP11S1 than the VP12S4 which is 720P and in a different category altogether.

Looking at the lens, the 15S1 should be a mid-throw projector.

Haw,

Why is two-stops more accurate to say, when that is not what i mean ?
I mean a two-iris mechanism, dual if you like. Atleast that is what i can translate from the german press release. if you have any other info, please, share.
if i am right, i don't care about the 1000 lumens spec. If you are right about a ordinary two-stops unit, then ok it might be a it brigther than my predictions.

I haven't tried the z20k, but one thing i like about marantz is their common color wheel speed design, meaning that they use 180hz even at 24hz input (converted to 48) which means that the wheel spins faster than ordinary for each frame of data, with a higher sub frame rate. Therfore the RBE is reduced.

It is more accurate to say a "two-stops" user selectable iris than "two-iris" and, as it is spec'd at 1,000 ansi lumens, should be alot brighter than your guess of 200-250 lumens in the high CR mode.


He is inferring that it uses a similar system to the Sharp 20k which indeed does have two irises. One between the lamp and DMD and one between the DMD and lens.

I also wouldn't bet on more than 250 lumens in low lamp/high CR mode.

EDIT: I see Aero and I posted at the same time.

This is a huge surprise coming from Marantz!
For me it isn't. A manufacturer doesn't always need to price their product the same as everyone else, but sometimes there is also only so much you can get away, so to speak. Even the most devoted dealers start to get gun shy at some point. Do they really want to push a 20K projector when they know a person can go to another dealer and see something like the JCR RS1 for 6K? When the differences between them are pretty close? Probably not. Marantz had to make this move.

Of course our friend Dan Miller may be along shortly to explain how I am wrong and use his famous line that "we are selling every one we make" :D.

QQQ JCR JVC. This is not code!

Haw,

Why is two-stops more accurate to say, when that is not what i mean ?
I mean a two-iris mechanism, dual if you like..

My understanding is, it is a single iris mechanism which can be opened and closed by turning it clockwise or anti-clockwise.

The iris is electrically controlled with a bright setting (f3.0) and a second setting at (f5.0) that offers improved contrast with an enhanced picture 3-dimensionality or "depth of field" as it is called in photography.

The higher the F stop on a given lens, the greater the depth of field. This means the distance between the closest object away and farthest object away that will be in focus. The longer the zoom or the focal length of the lens, the shorter the depth of field. I am talking taking a picture.

For projection, the screen is at some distance away. There is no front to back depth. The screen is a plane. Objects projected on the plane will be in focus if the PJ and screen are set up properly, the lens is focused correctly, and the object was in focus when the picture was shot. For example, we have a cheetah a great distance away. The photographer using a 600mm lens at F4.0 takes a shot. The photographer shot at F4.0 because the cheetah was chasing a tommie (a type of gazelle) and had to use a fast shutter speed to stop the action requiring the lens to be wide open F stop wise in order to take in enough light for a proper exposure. only the eye or nose of the cheetah would be in focus (its a shame my photographer wasn't somewhere taking a photo of a tiger, then we could say the eye of the tiger, oh well). The depth of field should be very very short. Projecting the image at a high F stop would not increase the depth of field. The depth of field was limited by the physics of the original shot. I am not arguing that stopping down the projection lens shows more detail if the detail is there but it doesn't increase the depth of field, At least in the sense I understand the term.

Moreover it seems to me that less depth of field in a picture means more "pop" as long as the foreground objects are well focused.
I believe the focus and details contrast between the main object/character and the background help it to pop out of the screen.

sorry for the bad language!
juno

Based on specs, is it likely that the Infocus IN82 will be noticeably brighter than the Marantz VP-15S1 in a room with controlled lighting on a 120-133" screen? Based on part projectors, it's likely the Marantz VP-15S1 with look better-than the Infocus IN82 overall, but I'm concerned about the brightness of the Marantz VP-15S1. I would like to see the FL numbers of both projectors at these screen sizes.

Also, will the throw distance of the Marantz VP-15S1 be the same as the Marantz VP-11S1? I need a projector with a short throw distance.

Moreover it seems to me that less depth of field in a picture means more "pop" as long as the foreground objects are well focused.
I believe the focus and details contrast between the main object/character and the background help it to pop out of the screen.

Depth of field in a picture draws you into it and makes watching a movie that much more exciting and involving an experience.

Depth of field in a picture draws you into it and makes watching a movie that much more exciting and involving an experience.

We're probably just getting hung up on vocabulary here.

Depth of field is the range of distances from a camera which could be considered in focus. e.g. Objects from 20ft to 40ft away are all in focus.

Depth of field in a projected image has nothing to do with iris settings on the projector. It's a result of the way the original image was photographed.

Every "object" in a projected image is in the same focal plane.

The image depth people on this board refer to is largely a function of a projector's simultaneous contrast, which is affected by the iris settings of the projector.

The image depth people on this board refer to is largely a function of a projector's simultaneous contrast, which is affected by the iris settings of the projector.

The JVC HD1 which has a contrast of 15,000:1 compared to Marantz S4's 4,500:1, however, does not appear to project images with greater depths than the S4. The JVC, no doubt, shows deeper blacks and is brighter. Could it be something to do with the differences in technology between DILA and DLP and not just contrast alone?

The JVC HD1 which has a contrast of 15,000:1 compared to Marantz S4's 4,500:1, however, does not appear to project images with greater depths than the S4. The JVC, no doubt, shows deeper blacks and is brighter. Could it be something to do with the differences in technology between DILA and DLP and not just contrast alone?

That... and the optics.

The JVC HD1 which has a contrast of 15,000:1 compared to Marantz S4's 4,500:1, however, does not appear to project images with greater depths than the S4. The JVC, no doubt, shows deeper blacks and is brighter. Could it be something to do with the differences in technology between DILA and DLP and not just contrast alone?Not 15k:1 in ANSI On-off. "Simultaneous"=Ansi, mostly. But before all the JVC lovers flame me I don't remember it's ANSI, havent' watched it much, still happy with my current DLP. Not 15k though IIRC.

The JVC HD1 which has a contrast of 15,000:1 compared to Marantz S4's 4,500:1, however, does not appear to project images with greater depths than the S4. The JVC, no doubt, shows deeper blacks and is brighter. Could it be something to do with the differences in technology between DILA and DLP and not just contrast alone?

As GetGray said. You're thinking of On-Off contrast. ANSI contrast is the most common measure of simultaneous contrast, and DLP typically has on the order of 2-3 times the ANSI contrast of LcOS.

Miller's in the bushes. You can see his eyes and hear his call, Optics.

Come on down, and tell us more. Cedia is only 40 days away. We fish are hungry. Give us a nibble!

This fish right here is hungry as well! :)

Hi Dan Miller , it the 15S1 throwing distance same as S4 or 11S1?

That... and the optics.

Are you able to reveal estimated MSRP? And whether there will be an anamorphic lens option that is turnkey ala Runco Cinewide? And the price that it would add to the base price of the projector? Available when?

So many questions.... :)

"Simultaneous"=Ansi, mostly.Simultaneous doesn't equal on/off or ANSI and I wouldn't even say ANSI and simultaneous are mostly equal. There are billions of simulataneous CRs (since there are billions+ different images possible) and ANSI CR is near one extreme end and on/off CR another. Neither one by itself tells you what you will get in most mixed images, but together I think we can get pretty close. A projector with 300:1 ANSI CR and 15k:1 projector is likely to have simultaneous CRs that range from under 100:1 to almost 15k:1, but even a dark image with some bright stuff could have higher simultaneous CR on a 600:1 ANSI CR and 4k:1 on/off CR projector. I think that was probably your point, but between those 2 projectors some images will have higher simultaneous CRs with one and some with the other.

--Darin

Thought this deserved its own thread.

http://www.digitalvd.de/nachrichten/5953.html

Looking good. The VP-15S1 has a higher contrast ration than the VP-11S1, is cheaper, and finally (crossing fingers) has a much lower fan noise at 30db. Though the VP-11S1 was listed on some sites as having a fan noise level of <29db but Greg Rogers measured 50db in its lowest mode so lets hope that it truely is quieter.

Translated by babelfish-


Looks like another winner for the new year. This projector should be serious competition for the likes of the current LCOS units at the projected cost ;)

Simultaneous doesn't equal on/off or ANSI and I wouldn't even say ANSI and simultaneous are mostly equal. Now see, I just knew someone would challenge that, knew it as I wrote it. King of CR made it so. And I was even crawfishing when I wrote "... mostly" Should have been more ambiguous. Maybe "sorta related" would have done :D.
I think that was probably your pointYep.

D&M holdings (Denon and Marantz) seems to be pushing the envelope for new gear designs slated for later this year. All of the new recievers will be capable of HDMI 1.3, a new DLP projector and two new Blu ray players :)

an anamorphic lens option that is turnkey ala Runco Cinewide?

Runco's may be turnkey, but you have to order it that way and it can't be retrofitted. Ours can be.

Dan,

First, I'd like to thank you for posting here. Second, I was wondering if you could talk about the throw on this PJ?

I've noticed the majority of DLP PJs seem to use med. to long throw lenses, where as many of the LCOS and LCD PJs seem to be able to support shorter throw installations. Why is this?

I'd really like to consider another DLP PJ for my next PJ purchase, but unfortunately for this application I need a shorter throw than DLP PJs frequently offer...

Thanks!

Also, will this PJ support CIH?

Dan,

First, I'd like to thank you for posting here. Second, I was wondering if you could talk about the throw on this PJ?

I've noticed the majority of DLP PJs seem to use med. to long throw lenses, where as many of the LCOS and LCD PJs seem to be able to support shorter throw installations. Why is this?

I'd really like to consider another DLP PJ for my next PJ purchase, but unfortunately for this application I need a shorter throw than DLP PJs frequently offer...

Thanks!

How short do you need? With the standard lens, we can get about the same as a CRT...

Dan, thanks for posting ! Are you saying the throw is more like the S1 ? (so a better S1 at lower price ? :) )

Will this model support 24p display natively ? (as in displayed in multiple of 24hz) And the lumens. Marantz is not known for off the chart lumens claims. So is this model going to be significantly brighter than, say the JVC ;) ?

Thanks again for your participation. Hope we can have some more definite specs.

How short do you need? With the standard lens, we can get about the same as a CRT...
The shorter the better for my needs. Ideally I'd like to see something around 1.35 - 2.0. Do you know what this lens will be?

Any idea about CIH support?

Thanks again Dan!

Throw is 1.46-2.116:1, click (http://www.projektoren-datenbank.com/pro/index.php?abfrage=nein&seite=&mseite=&sseiten=&eseite=&angabe=)

regards
Thomas

Thank you Thomas. I will keep an eye on the actual street price as its release date gets closer.

A throw ratio of 1.46-2.116:1 is great news for those of us who need a short throw distance.

Didn’t all the other single chip Marantz DLP projectors (VP-12S1, VP-12S2, VP-12S3, etc) have a 1.75:1 minimum throw ratio? What would be the minimum throw distance be for a 120”, 16x9 screen with a 1.46-2.116:1 throw ratio projector?

A throw ratio of 1.46-2.116:1 is great news for those of us who need a short throw distance.

Didn’t all the other single chip Marantz DLP projectors (VP-12S1, VP-12S2, VP-12S3, etc) have a 1.75:1 minimum throw ratio? What would be the minimum throw distance be for a 120”, 16x9 screen with a 1.46-2.116:1 throw ratio projector?

About 151.8 inches (this would be a 104" x 59" screen)

151.8 inches is still a long throw. I guess something like a 1.2 ration would be more desirable.

Does anyone know what ratio of the old Marantz short throw lens was? I believe they charged a lot more for the short throw lens though.

I'll be looking to compare this one to Joe Kane's new Samsung 1080p being demoed at CEDIA EXPO. The test will be genuine reference image fidelity and then reliability.

Throw ratios of Marantz:

1.50 - 1.73 12S1,S2,S3
1.75 - 2.54 12S4
1.454 - 2.121 11S1
1.46 - 2.116 15S1

based on this site (http://www.projektoren-datenbank.com/pro/index.php?abfrage=nein&seite=&mseite=&sseiten=&eseite=&angabe=)

regards
Thomas

Throw ratios of Marantz:

1.50 - 1.73 12S1,S2,S3
1.75 - 2.54 12S4
1.454 - 2.121 11S1
1.46 - 2.116 15S1



Have the 11S1 and the 15S1 the same optics? For me its a very tight fit... every centimeter counts...
Has anybody some specs of the physikal dimensions of the unit? Are these the same as the 11S1?
I try to figure out if the 15S1 will fit in my setup. I have 2.99m between both walls and my screen is 1.75m wide. Yes I know it depends on centimeters.

Anyone has a guess witch cost savings had to be done compared to the 11S1?

Garbage

according to the numbers i would think that both the 11S1 and the 15S1 have the same optics.
Physical dimensions should be the same. The case of both units only differs in color (15S1 is black or a dark grey).

regards
Thomas

Simultaneous doesn't equal on/off or ANSI and I wouldn't even say ANSI and simultaneous are mostly equal. There are billions of simulataneous CRs (since there are billions+ different images possible) and ANSI CR is near one extreme end and on/off CR another.

I would differentiate here that on/off CR isn't a simultaneous measure at all, since it's sequential. On/off CR is distinct because it is a sequential measurement, thus it is not a particular simultaneous measure since it is not at all simultaneous. It is one particular sequential CR, while ANSI is one particular simultaneous CRs. Sequential CRs other than on/off are not particularly interesting, while simultaneous CRs other than ANSI are extremely interesting.

Marantz should offer a choice of a long or short throw lens. Why should they turn-away anyone who wants to buy a 15S1 because of lens throw?

And why do you think we aren't?

Dan,
That's what I want to hear! :D

I didn't say we were... I just wanted to know why you thought we weren't...

Of course our friend Dan Miller may be along shortly to explain how I am wrong and use his famous line that "we are selling every one we make" :D.
I haven't heard that line in a while, but I too have used it on occasion.

-Mr. Wigggles

Dan,
I should have posted, Marantz should offer a choice of a long or short throw lens...for the same price. That hasn't happened before, has it?

No that hasn't happened. The long throw is a more expensive offering because Minolta produces it in much more limited quantities for us. It is essentially hand made.

Dan,
Any chance of an upcoming short-throw option?

Dan,
Will it be shown at CEDIA (the projector)?

What projector?

What projector?

LOL!

Dan, you tricky guy.

What projector?

Left myself open for that one.