What if...

Your format loses and there will be no more releases on it AND the other format is fully adopted by ALL hardware and software purveyors??

It will happen.

Now when I say, 'I will get my movies elsewhere' in the above choices...I mean getting movies in any medium but the enemy format...(e.g. Download, pirated, SD DVD, TV)

So, how will you respond?

You mean, what if there were a poll? ;)

I am planning on going neutral with my next purchase (in 2-3 years) if there is still a reason to at that time.

I don't want two players and I don't want to make a major investment in dual format. (already spent $500, don't want to spend an additional $500)

I will use my HD DVD collection on my HD DVD players and enjoy them for as long as the titles don't appear on Blu-ray.

Or vice-versa. Of course, with Blu-ray, I can always buy a PS3 to do that. With HD DVD, the format players would stop being released in a few years, so I'd probably wind up getting a dual format player of some sort.

As I have said a million times. Anyone that doesn't want a new, shiny piece of A/V gear doesn't belong here. :cool:

Yeah if my format of choice goes the way of the dinosaurs,I'll just get a dual player and continue buying the winning team. What else am I supposed to do! :rolleyes:




DJoel

If HD DVD loses, I'll buy into Blu Ray if it becomes a dominant format, and player and software prices/features reach what HD DVD had when I bought into it.

(HD DVD player = $169 open box, full IME, internet, pip support)

If HD DVD wins, I laugh all the way to the bank

If they both win, I invest in a combo player when they reach the same price point and feature set.

I'm guessing the 3rd option plays out.

What if: I'm not blue or red, just a movie lover?

HD DVD and Blu-ray are so completely similar that I cannot imagine most people even noticing the difference either in performance or use.

This was not the case with Beta and VHS. I owned both and Beta was better every single day of its existence, VHS never eclipsed it, and you could easily see and hear the difference.

I can remember showing people both formats, proving the superiority of Beta, and then turning around and advising them to buy VHS because it was headed to victory. Sigh. But no one is going to have that problem with HD DVD and Blu-ray.

I do believe it is possible that high-band AVC on Blu-ray may be better than the optimized-for-HD DVD VC-1 encodes we are getting from Warners and Microsoft. Possible, but I haven't seen definitive proof yet, and I suspect the differences will be very slight.

Interactive features will end up being very similar after the dust settles as well.

Bottom line: Under the hypothetical of this thread, I would immediately buy an HD DVD player and be very grateful for the end of the format war. I suspect--despite what people may say now--that everyone else here will end up doing the analogous thing whichever format wins.

After all: everyone I knew who supported Beta ended up buying VHS despite what they may have said!

What if: I'm not blue or red, just a movie lover?





You just sit there,and watch us tear each other apart until the bloody end. :)


Djoel

what if your nuetral..is it a rule that you cant be nuetral. And "What If" they both lose and there is a 3rd contender...will you kill your self?, I might after spending $1500 on both players. :D

You just sit there,and watch us tear each other apart until the bloody end. :)


Djoel

So, in the end, all cases will be stained blood red and purple?

I find it interesting that people hate a movie format so much that it would prevent them from enjoying movies they purportedly love. Or maybe it is all talk.

I understand not spending to be dual format in an uncertain market situation but it is crazy when the writing is on the wall, ceiling, sky, AVS front page, etc.

I voted Blu only, but that is just because i have 3 PS3 and do not have any more connections for another player. I play games 50% of the time so even if HD DVD wins i still will have to keep the PS3s hooked up.

My kids would kill me if i even try to take there PS3s away, that and we have so many PS2 games they love and i took there old PS2s to goodwill.

Movies that i miss i can just DVR or download anyway.

my main TV is a 42 Westy and i have a 27 Olivia in each of the kids rooms, with a PS3 and there computer hooked up to it. I have a 32 Olivia in the bedroom, and both living room and bedroom TVs have a Dish DVR. my kids TV have both the PS3s and a link to my media server.

That and this is a MS free open source only home, yea Ubuntu !! hope this explains my decisions to be Blu only.

So what you are asking here is, do we love movies in HD? .. . or do we love the plastic discs they come on?

?

awe crap, i didnt read the post lol. I picked BD only because i didnt see you say if the format didnt die, if i could re-vote, i would vote "eventually pick up a hd-dvd player" since i am a HD movie lover first and foremost, and not a format nazi like many people here are. But since hd-dvd is all but a mail order format anyway, it is all a moot point.

sigh, come on affordable combo player!

TheBland,

I am not sure how to answer your "what if" here. Just got my XA2 only two weekends ago and am enjoying it immensely. So, Slim I just got that "shiny new piece of hardware".

I had seen myself buying either a BR or combo player in 1-2 years or so anyway.

I chose the XA2 because I like to watch action flicks - especially war flicks (WWII)and have a number of imports. I do not expect that these flicks will find their way onto HD media within the next 5 years - maybe they never make it.

So, I picked the player that gets me into HD media that does not enforce region coding and possesses very good upconverting abilities. Advanced features/interactivity was not an overriding concern but I will/do make use of it. I waited about a full year for some of the "stink" of first/second generation hardware to be corrected. (I am aware of the BR player that also has the Reon chip)

I don't think I would immediately buy into BR. Wasn't planning to anyway. I would wrestle over regional coding. I guess I'd still have the XA-2 for upconverting imports though.

I had heard that Spielberg and Hanks had started becoming serious about doing a treatment of the Pacific theatre similar to Band of Brothers. In your "what if" that would only be on BR and that could be the type of "killer app" that would cause me to immediately pick up a BR player. Even at my age (41) I like watching comic book movies, but I am able to see them a 1000 times over on Comcast. I know its sacriledge to some for me to say that as Comcast HD broadcasts are not of the same quality as HD media - but I personally can make do with Comcast for a good many flicks.

What bin would you put me in - hopelessly confused?
{afterward: I put myself into the will eventually go BR bin, but it is possible I would rearrange my priorities to go BR quickly if software existed that I highly desire. I have alot to do yet with my HT - finishing up a construction job now. Hell, I've set aside the funds for it, but I dont' even have sound treatments, separates, or speakers yet.}


I do believe it is possible that high-band AVC on Blu-ray may be better than the optimized-for-HD DVD VC-1 encodes we are getting from Warners and Microsoft. Possible, but I haven't seen definitive proof yet, and I suspect the differences will be very slight.

Yes. What percentage of people have the visual acuity to notice such a difference and also have the quality/size of hardware that such differences could be noted in the first place? The question is rhetorical RLSmith I understand that your primary point is that when studios are properly diligent that both formats are (or will eventually be) fully capable and functionally comparable.

Why would anyone not support the winning format? Have people actually picked this choice?

Why would anyone not support the winning format? Have people actually picked this choice?

This is a public poll. You can see how people have voted via the link to the bottom right of the poll choices.

What is the point of this thread? Of course we will support the winning format. Most here are not that fanatical and just want HD movies. I know I do.

Also, I already own both formats. So how am I suposed to vote with the limited choices you have ?

I currrently buy both but I still have a preference for one. But if it ever gets down to one, that will be my preference.:)

Now that some numbers are coming in, a few observations.

1. Overall support is about 55:45 for HD DVD. This is about where I think the forum is these days.
2. Among HD DVD supporters, more of a tendency to resist supporting Blu-ray.

I suspect that HD DVD supporters are more determined and Blu-ray supporters more pragmatic.

Now that some numbers are coming in, a few observations.

1. Overall support is about 55:45 for HD DVD. This is about where I think the forum is these days.
2. Among HD DVD supporters, more of a tendency to resist supporting Blu-ray.

I suspect that HD DVD supporters are more determined and Blu-ray supporters more pragmatic.

I suspect that HD DVD supporters are more patient and Blu-ray supporters more pragmatic

There - fixed it :D

Now that some numbers are coming in, a few observations.

1. Overall support is about 55:45 for HD DVD. This is about where I think the forum is these days.
2. Among HD DVD supporters, more of a tendency to resist supporting Blu-ray.

I suspect that HD DVD supporters are more determined and Blu-ray supporters more pragmatic.

That is factually incorrect. As of the time I am making this post there were 76 respondants.

HD DVD ---> BR
11 immediately
24 will eventually
6 Never

BR ---> HD DVD
19 immediately
6 will eventually
10 Never

At this snapshot in time, there is a higher percentage of the BR respondants that state they would never support HD DVD than vice-versa.

I would suggest though that is best to wait to make such far reaching assertions.

That is factually incorrect. As of the time I am making this post there were 76 respondants.

HD DVD ---> BR
11 immediately
24 will eventually
6 Never

BR ---> HD DVD
19 immediately
6 will eventually
10 Never

At this snapshot in time, there is a higher percentage of the BR respondants that state they would never support HD DVD than vice-versa.

I would suggest though that is best to wait to make such far reaching assertions.

We just summarized the same data in different ways. I added "wait a while" and "never" together and, of course, at the time that I did it. It is still changing.

It is surprising that there is so much apparent resistance to moving forward. I wonder how many peole are postering.

Too bad this wasn't public.

I've said it many times. I'm Blu and would immediately support Red if everyone went neutral, but Universal.

Kind of hard to imagine Sony ever going Red, but if that's where the money is, I'm sure they eventually would; just like when they finally began to manufacture VHS machines.

We just summarized the same data in different ways. I added "wait a while" and "never" together and, of course, at the time that I did it. It is still changing.

It is surprising that there is so much apparent resistance to moving forward. I wonder how many peole are postering.

Ah, you are wearing the glass is half full eyeglases on this one. Look on the bright side now it is 46/52 HD DVD users say they would immediately or eventually make the switch to BR....

You could look back into my earlier post and get some insight as to under what conditions I would immediately make the switch. Then again, I am not sure that I fall into the early implementor crowd - maybe tech savvy.

For the real early implementers some of you have already accumulated some nice libraries of HD media. Maybe some early implementers have become somewhat sated?

In my first month, I have done some double dipping on movies. I certainly am not going to even try to replicate my existing SD DVD library in HD media. Right now there is a certain novelty to this for me. Maybe over time that novelty will start to wane?

Obviously, some percentage of the PS3 users are both gamers and movie watchers. The PS3 provided that particular demographic with a good bang for their buck. Some of these individuals may find it difficult to justify the purchase of "just" an HD DVD player....

Too bad this wasn't public.

I've said it many times. I'm Blu and would immediately support Red if everyone went neutral, but Universal.

Kind of hard to imagine Sony ever going Red, but if that's where the money is, I'm sure they eventually would; just like when they finally began to manufacture VHS machines.

Sketcha, TheBland made this a public poll. Or are you trying to say something else?

I'm waiting for BD Player prices to drop to $250 or less before I buy a player...whether or not the current format I own survives.

Yes, this means that if a BD player drops to $250 I'll buy one...even if it ends up losing in the end. (IMO, both will survive)

Like several others, I can't vote because I already support both formats completely. The "War" is over for me ... and has been for some time. I have an XA2 and a Panasonic BD player.

BTW, I agree with some of these posts. This poll is almost unbelievable. Who in their right mind would boycott a winning format after their chosen one "lost". Seems a little incredible to me.

I prefer HD-DVD but would definitely buy a BR player if it becomes the sole surviving format.

I just want HD movies.

Well . . *sniffle* . . . if HD DVD loses . . . *sniffle* . . . I am going to go back to VHS in protest! :eek:

Only kidding :D

Man, I can't believe there are actually people that would rather do without HD than switch formats if the current format they support disappears. :rolleyes:

Since I'm 100% neutral, I didn't vote. Because there wasn't a category for me.

the only way i would ever support bluray is if it went drm free... i'm sick and tired of having to purchase several players to watch movies from other parts of the world... this is "the future" right?
the future is region free!!!!!!

I think most who are choosing not to switch are saying rather then do without HD media we will move onto downloaded HDM, sat, or cable. The winner is not going to come soon in this battle and the die hard of the loosing format will likely just move on to be the bleeding edge adopters of the next HDM.

I'm HD DVD. I will never support Blu. Get movies elsewhere

That is what i voted, but only because the option i wanted wasnt there.
Im not sure what i would do if HD DVD lost and only had bluray to choose from.I really feel at this point that bluray is a tainted format that show nothing to what the consumer wants.I feel that if it was an equal playing field that only then can you say that either format is the true winner.To me until both format's are treated equal there can't be a true winner.
I guess i cant say never but would think real hard before going blu, and the price would have to be that of what HD DVD is now or less from a quality player,have final specs and internet capability.

Thanks Jeff

To clarify my vote: the only reason I'm a Blu-ray fan is because of the added capacity. The 30 GB limit of HD DVD would really hurt, but it would probably be workable if Blu-ray failed.

Seeing how I have players for both, I would immediately begin purchasing in the other. I obviously lean towards Blu-ray now since I think it has superior potential but would not be displeased at all since HDDVD also gives a great execution. I've never been entirely happy with the 360 add-on, mostly due to the 360's fans, and am still waiting for the A2/D2/A2W to get to the sweet spot at $199 or less (and the Complete Matrix and DVE thrown in would be nice. Wink, wink).

I have Blu...if it looks like HD-DVD will win, I'll flip flop in a heartbeat. For now, seems like I made the right choice though.

I like HD DVD based on price. However i just want HD movies and would buy into either one tomorrow if there was only one format. I really thought this war would be over by now. Since it looks like neither side is going to budge for quite some time, cheap dual format players or a decent source of HD downloads(i already have the internet connection to handle them) cant come fast enough.

You need another option in there. What if I already support both formats. If one fails so be it, but right now, i'm enjoying all the content I want. Both are fantastic and pretty much equal in picture and audio.
I just don't see the point in being a fan of one or the other when you can have both.
I also still don't think one or the other is anywhere near winning and that was my major reason for investing in both. As i'm pretty much sure it was yours Bland.
It's nice to see a very civil thread to :)

We need more voters...Looks like there is some info here to be gleaned.

In the unlikely event that HD-DVD dies off, I will take advantage of the "fire sale" on discs, and pick up quite the collection at $10 or less a piece. That will hold me over until BluRay gets cheaper.

The Bland, .....It seems like a pointless poll since everyone here will adopt the winning format at one point in time and everyone who supported one or the other will feel bad about the situation for awhile. If the reason you are conducting this poll is to somewhat deduce that most people will adopt the other format and that this whole format war doesn't matter since both are the same and will deliver the same quality.. I disagree with that conclusion...

This statement below should be in your poll to more accurately reflect my long-term point of view about this issue.... And it would play just like a Country music song "What Might Have Been" by Lonestar...

"I'm a Blu Ray fan and will be more tentative at buying and supporting HD-DVD titles however I will feel that the High Def releases in the future really could have been better and that any improvements that the Microsoft encoding teams gain down the road would only be marginal in comparison to what could have been accomplished had BD50 with the higher bitrate/bandwidth was used..."

You are reading too far into the poll. The technical aspects of either poll are irrelevent relative to this poll.

It is simply....Will you whole heartedly support the format you are currently adverse to(immediately or in the future) to or do you despise the other so much you'll never support it.

Did not vote as there is no option for, "already format nuetral".

I intentionally left out that option...the truly neutral folks weren't who I wasn't intersted in.

There should have been a choice of "I am a fan of neither/own both...and will gladly support whoever wins no matter what"

^^^I mean, whether that option would have hurt the intention of this poll or not - that, I think, is truly how the majority of people feel. I mean, at the end of the day, people aren't really all psycho and gung-ho about the one FORMAT they choose. But they are that way about MOVIES THEMSELVES.

For all the bickering, even the most hardcore people don't really care about a particular format or which company makes it or which uses which codec or what. All people really care about is a ton of content with a gorgeous-looking picture. So if one side wins and is on the verge of that goal, then sooner or later - EVERYONE will begin to enthusiastically support it...and they'll be happy to do so.

You are reading too far into the poll. The technical aspects of either poll are irrelevent relative to this poll.

It is simply....Will you whole heartedly support the format you are currently adverse to(immediately or in the future) to or do you despise the other so much you'll never support it.

Well if that was the information you wanted you could have narrowed the questions to only three:

1. Will you support only HD DVD and never BRD?

2. Will you support only BRD and never HD DVD?

3. Will you support the winning format?

Well, at least I got a good laugh.

The people who refuse to support the winning format make me chuckle inside, kind of like listening to my daughter complain about her high-school friends.

You are reading too far into the poll. The technical aspects of either poll are irrelevent relative to this poll.

It is simply....Will you whole heartedly support the format you are currently adverse to(immediately or in the future) to or do you despise the other so much you'll never support it.

Dunno Bland, I'm HD-DVD but don't know if I would "Definitely Support" another format.

You should have tossed in an option for "maybe" on both of these. :)

I thought the choices were easy....either you will buy HD optical discs on the format you once despised or you will not ever buy optical disc media again.... I think most would be able to answer yes or no to that as it would represent a major change in HD viewing..

I think this thread shows the stupidity of going blu-ray just because of studio and CE support. I do not believe any company will give up on home video just because of the failure of one format or another.

I just support the format that I think is best for me as a consumer and as a producer.

But whoever wins, wins.

By the way... I'm for HD DVD. :)

I am a HD DVD owner right now and the one thing it has taught me is that I cannot live without HD discs. If HD DVD goes away I will buy into blu-ray when I have the money to do so.

Heck I will go a step further and say that if the format struggle continues in the next couple of years I will get a blu-ray player or combo player when they reach the sub $200 range. It is all about the movies in the end and available funds for me in the short term.

Laters,
Jeff

I thought the choices were easy....either you will buy HD optical discs on the format you once despised or you will not ever buy optical disc media again.... I think most would be able to answer yes or no to that as it would represent a major change in HD viewing..

Not wanting to begin a flame war, but it's not just the HD discs that made me choose HD-DVD exclusive. There are problems on the blu-ray side that need to be resolved before I would climb aboard.

Hence the "maybe" instead of "definitely".

I'm sure there are blu-ray exclusives that feel the same way about HD-DVD so I think a choice of "maybe" would be a valid poll choice for both formats.

No problemo,

But again, you're looking too closely, warts or not on the winning format would you opt in immediately, eventually, or absolutely never (as you can't stand the winning format).

Suppose we set up a double-blind experiment, comparing HD DVD and Blu-ray versions of some of the dual-format releases (most of them actually, but let me suggest The Departed, Planet Earth, and The Searchers).

Let the subjects switch between A and B and guess which format is which.

The "subjects" could be drawn from this forum or the general population.

Would people be able to tell the difference? I think we all know that the null hypothesis will be the big winnner on this experiment.

____

I am appalled (but not surprised) at the amount of "down with the ship" attitude expressed by the respondents of this poll, on both sides, but especially the HD DVD supporters.

I also do not believe this for one minute. If the format war were to end under the assumptions thebland set out, I think everyone here would switch pretty quickly indeed.

I am appalled (but not surprised) at the amount of "down with the ship" attitude expressed by the respondents of this poll, on both sides, but especially the HD DVD supporters.


just curious? Why "especially the HD DVD supporters"? Is that attitude more tolerable for people who pick that option if its BD?

just curious? Why "especially the HD DVD supporters"? Is that attitude more tolerable for people who pick that option if its BD?

I was simply noting that the HD DVD supporters were even more likely to express an unwillingness to change than the Blu-ray supporters. Take a look at the responses to see this.

I was simply noting that the HD DVD supporters were even more likely to express an unwillingness to change than the Blu-ray supporters. Take a look at the responses to see this.


There is a difference of 4?!


I guess i understand where your coment came from now.

Suppose we set up a double-blind experiment, comparing HD DVD and Blu-ray versions of some of the dual-format releases (most of them actually, but let me suggest The Departed, Planet Earth, and The Searchers).

Let the subjects switch between A and B and guess which format is which.

The "subjects" could be drawn from this forum or the general population.

Would people be able to tell the difference? I think we all know that the null hypothesis will be the big winnner on this experiment.

____

I am appalled (but not surprised) at the amount of "down with the ship" attitude expressed by the respondents of this poll, on both sides, but especially the HD DVD supporters.

I also do not believe this for one minute. If the format war were to end under the assumptions thebland set out, I think everyone here would switch pretty quickly indeed.

Perhaps you should actually take the time to normalize results to make valid summaries/conclusions. It is 23% to 21% of respondants - BR higher - that would "go down with the ship". (added: this is nearly without a doubt well within the error of this poll which isnt scientific - the error is probably quite large on this poll)

The numbers do not support your English summarization of results. It just isn't appropriate to bin in those that are willing to change with those that are "going to go down with ship".

No problemo,

But again, you're looking too closely, warts or not on the winning format would you opt in immediately, eventually, or absolutely never (as you can't stand the winning format).

Ahh, I see what you're getting at.

Then I vote yes, but it wouldn't be a Sony player, more likely a Panasonic or Pioneer.

The HD-DVD crowd seems stronger on the death before surrender scale.

This may seem harsh, but as far as im concerned all the people from the HD DVD and BD side who choose the "sink with the ship" option should be eliminated from AVS.

This may seem harsh, but as far as im concerned all the people from the HD DVD and BD side who choose the "sink with the ship" option should be eliminated from AVS.

You're the first one to hit on my true intent of this poll. I've kept quiet to this point as I didn't want to influence any votes or turn away any of the voters that see only one possible winner. Like, 'Give Me Liberty (mypreferred format) or Give Me Death'...to the Nth degree!!!!...

I was simply looking for the extremists on both sides. That was one of the reasons it is a public poll (for future reference). I have to tell you, I am surprised that 22% of the respondents are so fixated to one side or the other. The idea of giving up disc media completely if your preferred format loses out is, frankly, too extreme. It takes this hobby and sinks it into politics.

You know why you never discuss politics with family or friends....Just read this forum and you'll see the sequela of such conversations...

Love of movies and technology are what this forum has always been.....about 'til this format war came to be. I simply wanted to see how pervasive the 'my format or none' attitude was here at AVS by using a gently worded poll that favored no side.

I don't know if eliminating the extrmists wold solve all the issues here but it would leave a greater percentage of fair minded forum members.

Perhaps you should actually take the time to normalize results to make valid summaries/conclusions. It is 23% to 21% of respondants - BR higher - that would "go down with the ship". (added: this is nearly without a doubt well within the error of this poll which isnt scientific - the error is probably quite large on this poll)

The numbers do not support your English summarization of results. It just isn't appropriate to bin in those that are willing to change with those that are "going to go down with ship".


These polls are hardly designed to be valid instruments of attitude measurement for any number of reasons.

However, taking the data as they stand, here are some simple stats from the data.

Currently, about 55.5% of all participants are HD DVD supporters and 44.% are Blu-ray supporters.

Of the HD DVD supporters, 30.1% say that they would "immediately support Blu-ray". The rest are either in the delay or never category.

Of the Blu-ray supporters, 49.6% say that they would "immediately support HD DVD". The rest are either in the delay or the never category.

While I find the numbers who would immediately support to be very low, I was particularly struck by the difference between HD DVD and Blu-ray supporters. While I can claim no statistical validity for this observation, it does appear to be a larger difference.

It does appear that HD DVD supporters have less willingness to change.

These statistics are based on the current poll results; an Excel sheet is available if you don't trust my math (PM me). I make no claim for statistical validity or validity of the poll design itself. As always, the interpretation of data is open to argument.

I would be happy to entertain your analysis of these data.

Ok?

You're the first one to hit on my true intent of this poll. I've kept quiet to this point as I didn't want to influence any votes or turn away any of the voters that see only one possible winner. Like, 'Give Me Liberty (mypreferred format) or Give Me Death'...to the Nth degree!!!!...


I wont take any credit for that as I'm sure many people figured that was the intent especially with the timing of your thread starting. I thought twice about posting my comment in case it would make people not vote honestly after.

Well the information is there, and I cant say anything bad could come of banning each of those members, or at least suspending them for a month. It would sure be an interesting test to see if the bickering would drop even slightly.

This may seem harsh, but as far as im concerned all the people from the HD DVD and BD side who choose the "sink with the ship" option should be eliminated from AVS.

Harsh? No - that is not the word I would associate with this statement of yours.

I'm a Blu user, simply because that was what made sense to me at the time, and I stand by my decision. I looked at HD-DVD and didn't have enough faith in the format's future to justify buying the player and movies. I submit this as my opinion only, though I do believe it was an educated one.

Having said that, if I'm wrong, no big deal. I just want HiDef movies, I'll eat some crow if need be.

So one of you please explain to me why if someone chooses not to buy a format - that they should be banned from AVS?

I choose not to buy BRD. I only have HD DVD. I supplement my HD movie watching with HD CBL - Many movies are OAR and DD5.1 Comcast in So. FL gives 1920x1080 - no HD Lite.

I did vote that if HD DVD became a totally dead format that I would buy a BRD player because I do enjoy watching HD movies and there are a few I would like to purchase in the future that are under BRD control.

But If I choose to stay with only HD DVD and use HD CBL - now I don't belong here?

What about the other 7 pieces of CE equipment in my HT?

Does that make ANY sense whatsoever?

Great post Lee. We agree on an issue at last. :cool:

I don't know if hating a piece of technology is rational (with the exception of the photocopier and the fountain pen) but people do despise some of the companies on both sides and their tactics.

That leads to alot of this "Never, ever" attitude.

These statistics are based on the current poll results; an Excel sheet is available if you don't trust my math (PM me). I make no claim for statistical validity or validity of the poll design itself. As always, the interpretation of data is open to argument.

I would be happy to entertain your analysis of these data.

Ok?

No need for an Excel sheet in my case, as it's simple enough to intuit, so I believe you.

I wonder what a perceived "lack of willingness" tells us though? I've my thoughts, but they are simply impressions from a regular reading of the particulars. Unfortunately, those thoughts are squishy (not ill - considered but non-quantifiable) and would likely prove inflammatory.

ted

What if...

Your format loses and there will be no more releases on it AND the other format is fully adopted by ALL hardware and software purveyors??

It will happen.

Now when I say, 'I will get my movies elsewhere' in the above choices...I mean getting movies in any medium but the enemy format...(e.g. Download, pirated, SD DVD, TV)

So, how will you respond?

I don't think that one of the formats will go away, so I would ask for the button that lets me raise the bullshit flag. :)

I don't know if hating a piece of technology is rational (with the exception of the photocopier and the fountain pen) but people do despise some of the companies on both sides and their tactics.

That leads to alot of this "Never, ever" attitude.

I think it has to do with the limited choice we have - 2 formats.

You really can't use Coke vs. Pepsi because their is RC Cola and Publix Cola and Stop & Shop Cola. But they are soda's so we also have Sprite and orange and a whole wall of choices - if we want to drink soda.

We have 10 to 12 Gas providers. Mobil, BP, Chevron - etc.

In sports we have tons of teams with multiple leagues.

TV Channels - what are we up to . . 200?

But only 2 choices for HD Movies on disc.

Many here are so passionate about their choice that they are just not capable of discussing their competitor without losing control and turning the discussion into an arguement - and the thread gets locked down.

Answers? I am still trying to identify the questions!

Too many analogies....it is just a simple poll... Approx 22% of AVS responders say they will not support their despised format...

'Why' is what is open for interpretation.. It's a hobby about movie watching and technology and both deliver identical movie resolution and sound.

Too much politics IMO....

I don't know if hating a piece of technology is rational (with the exception of the photocopier and the fountain pen) but people do despise some of the companies on both sides and their tactics.

That leads to alot of this "Never, ever" attitude.

There are companies on both sides that have extremely questionable business practices. How is it that some companies with questionable business practices are worth supporting and others with questionable business practices are not worth supporting under any circumstances?

I never really understood the answer to this question. I will say I bought into BD since I feel they have the best chance of coming out on top and I want HD now. There are times when I consider HD-DVD but I really do not want another player and movies that may not be playable on my main player (given that I feel both that BD will come out on top and studios will not support 2 formats - although we could end up with exclusives and dual players).

I also feel the the "I will die before being a traitor" is mostly talk and will not come to pass as I said in post #11. It is purely theatrics for some hidden motivation.

I have said this many times. This is the kind of thing where enthusiasts usually kill themselves to buy new gear and new media. Now for some reason, that isn't the case. There are people that were big LD and DVHS supporters that suddenly are complaining about spending money and a concern about the longevity of a given format. I've been a professional in this industry for 15 years, and this is just about as strange a thing I've ever seen occur. Anyone that wouldn't buy the other format if their's was gone, isn't much of a home theater enthusiast IMHO.

I have said this many times. This is the kind of thing where enthusiasts usually kill themselves to buy new gear and new media. Now for some reason, that isn't the case. There are people that were big LD and DVHS supporters that suddenly are complaining about spending money and a concern about the longevity of a given format. I've been a professional in this industry for 15 years, and this is just about as strange a thing I've ever seen occur. Anyone that wouldn't buy the other format if their's was gone, isn't much of a home theater enthusiast IMHO.

So once again we are discussing the issue of being an elitist - not an enthusiast.

HD is availble from CBL and SAT and OTA. HDM is not the only source for HD. As a matter of fact it is a very limited source

I have been an HT "enthusisast" since 1983. I had my own theater in my home. 144" 16x9 perforated Stewart Silver 300 Screen with a Zenith Pro 900x PJ on the ceiling - seating for 6. LD, DVD SVHS and HDTV (1999)

What if people don't want to buy a HDM player - they only want HD CBL or HD SAT? Now they are no longer an HT enthusisast? They are second class?

Slim - I am having trouble understanding you and your opinion.

So once again we are discussing the issue of being an elitist - not an enthusiast.

HD is availble from CBL and SAT and OTA. HDM is not the only source for HD. As a matter of fact it is a very limited source

I have been an HT "enthusisast" since 1983. I had my own theater in my home. 144" 16x9 perforated Stewart Silver 300 Screen with a Zenith Pro 900x PJ on the ceiling - seating for 6. LD, DVD SVHS and HDTV (1999)

What if people don't want to buy a HDM player - they only want HD CBL or HD SAT? Now they are no longer an HT enthusisast? They are second class?

Slim - I am having trouble understanding you and your opinion.

Well, if you had said, "I don't need HDM because I have other ways to get HD". I would take you more seriously. You have shown a desire for HD discs, yet then you say that you only support one type, not the HD it holds. It's a little thin to me. If I were an elitist I would question your gear, not your media choices.

You are making our point anyway. You have all that HT crap, and the idea of a BD player is crazy somehow. Can't you see why we think that is a little strange?

This may seem harsh, but as far as im concerned all the people from the HD DVD and BD side who choose the "sink with the ship" option should be eliminated from AVS.
It doesn't seem harsh, it seems unAmerican. Do you want a fascist forum where everyone must choose sides and there is no room for those at the extremes who say they would "go down with the ship?" I agree that there is too much bickering on these threads and that people at times take things to a personal level. That should not be tolerated however we should always have room for people posting their honest opinions and challenging each other no matter how extreme their views.

Don't ban people because of their extremist views, they should only be banned for violating stated forum rules.

I think that this is not elitist vs enthusiast... That attitude is simply defensive.

Look at where you are at: Audio Video SCIENCE forum....Not technologypolitics.com

If you are a true enthusiast, it trumps all. We are here for movies. If you don't likr Sony go push your reasoning in the IHATESONY.COM internet site. But don't come here and corrupt an enthusissts site where politics is not the primary issue..

But here is for enthusiasts of HT...and I'm sorry but if you'd never buy the [other] format if it won out, then you are not about the hobby. Optical technology for delivering films is a core area of this hobby....Boycott it? Then you do not have the hobby front and center.

Well, if you had said, "I don't need HDM because I have other ways to get HD". I would take you more seriously. You have shown a desire for HD discs, yet then you say that you only support one type, not the HD it holds. It's a little thin to me. If I were an elitist I would question your gear, not your media choices.

You are making our point anyway. You have all that HT crap, and the idea of a BD player is crazy somehow. Can't you see why we think that is a little strange?

Oh - that is not my current HT setup - that was my former HT - now I have a 50" PDP - and I own my current home outright - no mortgage. I figure it was a good "trade"

I would be more than happy to tell you why I do not own a BRD player. But before I do, I want to make a few points clear to you:

1. I do not hate Sony
2. I do not love Toshiba
3. I do love movies
4. I own 400+ DVD's
5. I am semi retired so my income is not as high as it used to be - but I only work 1 or 2 days a week max.

Why I bought HD DVD - I made a list of my top 20 favorite movies of all time. 16 of them were available in both formats. The other 4 were exclusive with 1 for HD DVD and 3 for BRD.

I looked at the price of the players (January). I did some reasearch on the formats and saw that BRD players were still a work in progress and at least 2X, up to 3X the price of a HD DVD player.

The A2 got rave reviews on it's upconverting ability for enhanced DVD's - the lions share of my collection.

So I bought an A2 and support HD DVD.

But at the same time I reinvolved myself on the forums (I was here from 1999 to 2001) The the more I watched - the more I began to see the antics of the BDA. Almost all of it just makes me laugh. I am a "student" of big business. I have worked with Fortune 1000 companies for over 30 years. They truly amaze me.

The only thing the format war provides me now is entertainment - posting, debating, discussing, arguing - I do enjoy it (well not the arguing - I am now going to avoid that as much as I can) - even started using the ignore feature here at AVS - never done that before

But the reality of the situation is, the war is over for me - I made a decision - no sitting on the fence. Enjoying movies in HD.

Lee....Let's not make this thread about you. Let's move on.

Lee....Let's not make this thread about you. Let's move on.

It is definitely not about me - I agree 100%. But I was asked a question and I did want to address it.

Unfortunately we now learn that you may have had other motives to running this poll . . .is this true?

Although we are here for movies I don't think anyone can downplay the importance of the hardware. I'm almost as much a geek for the hardware as I am for the movies. New and better toys are a lot of fun. I love to learn about the new technology. I'm certainly no expert like some here but nonetheless, I love it.

Maybe that makes me a non purist but I freely admit I love my new toys and look forward to the time when something better comes along. Hopefully it will be a few years but who knows. The way technology is advancing we could be argueing over something that won't be around in 5 years.

I still come here eveyday to get news about about our chosen hobby but it gets harder and harder to get real news with all the speculation going on both sides. Even worse is the way members here treat each other. I'm not totaly innocent myself of poor judgment in some of my posts but I, and I hope others, can change that rather easily if we want to. I for one do want to see real change here and look forward to the time when we can discuss the tech and not the politics behind it.

I support only HD DVD now but I would buy Blu Ray no problem if HD DVD is no more. I may even buy Blu Ray as soon as the new $400 LG dual format drive comes out. I still am betting that neither format will die nor fully become mainstream but thats just IMHO!

Unfortunately we now learn that you may have had other motives to running this poll . . .is this true?

His motives are suspect. Like me he was once a big time BD only supporter. Now he's practically pretending to be format neutral and wondering why others aren't more open to the idea. :rolleyes:

You have it wrong...I have owned 3 HD DVD players and 1 Blu Ray. I prefer Blu Ray but am about movies and technology first... Read my 13000 posts.... I'm about technology, acoustics and reference sound and video..There's no way I would lock myself out of any format...I'm still using D-Theater as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart
Unfortunately we now learn that you may have had other motives to running this poll . . .is this true?


Originally posted by The Bland
You're the first one to hit on my true intent of this poll. I've kept quiet to this point as I didn't want to influence any votes or turn away any of the voters that see only one possible winner. Like, 'Give Me Liberty (mypreferred format) or Give Me Death'...to the Nth degree!!!!...

I was simply looking for the extremists on both sides. That was one of the reasons it is a public poll (for future reference).

I would think that a lot of people might take offense to this. Ammo for some future confrontation?

Think I will skip your next poll

I was simply looking for the extremists on both sides. That was one of the reasons it is a public poll (for future reference).

Woo-hoo! I've been blacklisted. Good news for Blu-ray! :D

BTW, I don't hate HD DVD at all. If it were the one with support from all but one major studio I'd be backing it instead but it's not. Despite the intentions of your poll I can't just pretend that there's any possibility that Sony will support HD DVD in the future. It's not going to happen... but you don't need me to tell you what you already know. :)

Sony hugely supported VHS in a big way..... its about money...not emotion.

If HD DVD were to go away and Blu-ray become the standard, I would have a hard time supporting the format. The unethical, low class, tactics of the Sony Blu-ray group has me avoiding all Sony products of any kind.

Sony hugely supported VHS in a big way..... its about money...not emotion.

And how many years was VHS around before Sony supported them? Tell me honestly, do you think HD DVD will last as long?

And how many years was VHS around before Sony supported them? Tell me honestly, do you think HD DVD will last as long?

Absolutely . . .you know why?

Because this is; "The Big What If Poll Thread"

And there is no way for you to guarantee that BRD will win - so it resorts to what if.

Hence a 'What if' poll......

<snip>I would be happy to entertain your analysis of these data.

Ok?

Sorry for the snarkiness. I'm sure you you know how to normalize results.

Curiously, the poll could be very accurate because its only intent was to evaluate the perspectives of AVS members and not the market as a whole. We would have to know how many AVS users etc etc

In this post, you talk of "less willingness to change". In the last post of yours to which I replied, you spoke of those "that go down with the ship". I would not equate "less willingness to change" with "those that would go down with the ship".

In my last post I noted to you that those willing to go down with the ship was slightly higher for BR than HD DVD. The difference was small then and likely within whatever error exists in the poll. A more appopriate English summarization at that time was that the the %s' of BR and HD DVD dead-enders was the same...

I think some of you could be right that there could be some posturing. Some people have a hard time with tough "what if" questions.

Sorry for the snarkiness. I'm sure you you know how to normalize results.

Curiously, the poll could be very accurate because its only intent was to evaluate the perspectives of AVS members and not the market as a whole. We would have to know how many AVS users etc etc

In this post, you talk of "less willingness to change". In the last post of yours to which I replied, you spoke of those "that go down with the ship". I would not equate "less willingness to change" with "those that would go down with the ship".

In my last post I noted to you that those willing to go down with the ship was slightly higher for BR than HD DVD. The difference was small then and likely within whatever error exists in the poll. A more appopriate English summarization at that time was that the the %s' of BR and HD DVD dead-enders was the same...

I think some of you could be right that there could be some posturing. Some people have a hard time with tough "what if" questions.

I used "down with the ship" rather generically to express a general attitude, which included both the "delay" and "never" categories. Perhaps that was confusing. But I see now that the numbers have actually hardened.

I can't believe this reflects how people on the forum would actually behave.

Of course my view is that once the format war is over, sales will explode. This will bring about a lot of content. How long will it be before everyone sees that titles they want are now available?

Theres no option for ripping all your HD DVD/Blu Ray titles and burning them to the other format. I do not believe that putting that option up will actively encourage pirating. Thats what a lot of people will do to protect their initial investment.

I would like to vote, but none of the statements apply to me. :( I'm neutral in this and am loving it to. :D

I own both an honestly could care less who wins, I have better things to do like watch any HD movie I want to.

This poll is totally off the track. You really care about the format in which the movies are released. The future resides in dual player formats.

ugh.

I already support both formats.(although I lean heavily toward the HD DVD side)) If one format loses then all my future purchases will be with the winning format.

I already support both formats.(although I lean heavily toward the HD DVD side)) If one format loses then all my future purchases will be with the winning format.

Wow aaronwt, well over 300 titles. You are the HD media purchasing machine!

I just fell into this fallacy myself. On first reading of the current poll results it appears (right now) that 13.46% of the HD DVD respondents were DWTS (down-with-the-ship) and only 9.29 of the BD respondents were DWTS. This would make it seem the HD DVD fans were by far the obsessive die hards.

But this isn't true and it only appears this way because there are more HD DVD fans answering than BD fans so far. Right now there are 50+85+42 = 177 HD DVD fans responding and only 66+40+29 = 135 BD fans in this poll.

So on the HD DVD side 42/177 or 23.7% are DWTS types.

But on the BD side 29/135 = 21.5% are DWTS.

Still makes the HD DVD crowd seem mildly more stubborn but puts the numbers a whole lot closer.

Personally I didn't vote since I'm fairly format neutral. I'll eventually buy whichever format can easily play on my HTPC and non-HDMI projector, which includes neither so far.

- Tom

just to add to my blu only vote, its more of i think by the time HD-DVD could win and there are no Blu-Ray disks for sale i will have fiber and Downloading HD will be easy for me. my town will be upgraded in the next year, give or take a year LOL

If it were not for the PS3 i would not have bought into any of the HD disk formats, until there was a very clear winner.

I think even with a HD-DVD win, there will be to many PS3s out to ignore.

now if i come into a lot of cash and can get a much bigger HD set then the 42 westy, i could be pushed into HD-DVD. but right now i do not see a huge difference between downloaded HD and disks to warrent buying another player.

Don't care about either format ...

Call me when one actually "wins" (if that ever happens).

:)

haha looks like avsforums is still heavily dominated in the extreme vocal minority hd-dvd crowd

<snip>
I can't believe this reflects how people on the forum would actually behave.

Of course my view is that once the format war is over, sales will explode. This will bring about a lot of content. How long will it be before everyone sees that titles they want are now available?

After reflecting on this a bit more, I'm not sure RLSmith whether this poll was or was not reflective. I am not sure either that you should despair either that the poll is "darkly forboding".

I think TheBland made a mistake in not further caveating his "what if". I think he should have added in that we were to suppose that there was no significant differences wrt interactivity. In other words we were to assume that some period has passed after the new BR profiles were released and some period of time had passed for new kinks to be worked out.

I don't think it is greatly unreasonable for someone to wait a bit more to jump into BR if they have even a little interest in interactivty.

Of course this provides no explanation for the "never" responders. Perhaps they are gamers and there is a real barrier for them wrt expense on jumping to the other format? The 360 add on and PS3 provided a very cost effective means to jump into HD media.

As to your thought TheBland that the "never" crowd should be banned I can't say that I agree. I did not recognize some of those responders as being "trouble makers".

thanks, i NEVER get involved with format battle debate. but i did vote to never back HD-DVD, but for reasons different then most of the fanboys.

So, you will give up HD discs all together if HD DVD wins??

I just don't understand that at all.... Isn't this hobby about watching movies?

I"m the biggest BLU RAY supporter of all but if BD lost, I'd be 100% HD DVD in a minute.

After reflecting on this a bit more, I'm not sure RLSmith whether this poll was or was not reflective. I am not sure either that you should despair either that the poll is "darkly forboding".

I think TheBland made a mistake in not further caveating his "what if". I think he should have added in that we were to suppose that there was no significant differences wrt interactivity. In other words we were to assume that some period has passed after the new BR profiles were released and some period of time had passed for new kinks to be worked out.

I don't think it is greatly unreasonable for someone to wait a bit more to jump into BR if they have even a little interest in interactivty.

Of course this provides no explanation for the "never" responders. Perhaps they are gamers and there is a real barrier for them wrt expense on jumping to the other format? The 360 add on and PS3 provided a very cost effective means to jump into HD media.

As to your thought TheBland that the "never" crowd should be banned I can't say that I agree. I did not recognize some of those responders as being "trouble makers".

"Interactivity" is the new BD50. Microsoft has latched onto this because HD DVD is a bit ahead in this area and something to mention.

I think that there is a future in interactivity but it's not there yet for a lot of folks. [I am the guy who bought all of the fancy Criterion LD's 15-20 years ago BTW so you are preaching to the choir in some sense.]

We will soon enough see that Blu-ray has more than enough interactivity to do whatever one wants. The next step in the roadmap is Profile 1.1, as announced by Denon today. This will include the ability to have two highdef streams decoded at the same time. That ability will allow some very interesting things.

As I have often said, I don't think these formats are very different, and I will be happy with whichever wins as long as something wins. But I think that interactivity is not something that Blu-ray will lack, never fear of that.

thanks, i NEVER get involved with format battle debate. but i did vote to never back HD-DVD, but for reasons different then most of the fanboys.

Lomax please explain why you personally would not. Some have expresessed here that they do not necessarily believe those that state they would never switch...

So, you will give up HD discs all together if HD DVD wins??

I just don't understand that at all.... Isn't this hobby about watching movies?

I"m the biggest BLU RAY supporter of all but if BD lost, I'd be 100% HD DVD in a minute.


I owned 2 SD disks in my whole life, i am mostly just a renter. I have been buying Blu-ray disks, and this is a big change for me. I have spent a lot of time getting Linux loaded up on all 3 of the PS3s and working with my server.

I am a open source purest, and have Ubuntu running on every system but the PS3s.

I feel that by the time this format war comes to a complete end i will be able to download HD that is good enough for my 42 Westy. I sit about 12 feet from it, closest my wife will let me push the furniture.

I got the money for my kids PS3s from the grand parents, i can not afford a bigger set or any more players.

Lomax please explain why you personally would not. Some have expresessed here that they do not necessarily believe those that state they would never switch...

not sure i can add much that the above post does not explain, its not that i like Sony or hate them. I do have some problems with MS being a Linux geek, but that would not keep me from buying HD-DVD alone.


I think if i could ever afford a better set then the Westy, then i could say i HAVE to get HD-DVD if it wins. but i can not see such a huge difference between my Dishes PVR HD and the HD from the PS3, and well for audio i have a very old JVC that does not even have optical in. Sorry but i am Just a house Painter, and i have little extra cash to spend.

So in a way i am stuck with Blu-ray now, if it does not win i am just out of luck.

I personally do not like Sony and so do not buy sony products, BR included. I dont see this as a problem since I can still buy movies on DVD and to me its the movie content that matters rather than its resolution. I have been watching movies for years and wont suddenly stop enjoying them because I cant see then in 1080p (eg Casino Royale, have it on DVD, still a good film). An upscaling player (which I have been using for a while) will be adequate. HD does enhance a movie but will not make a bad movie into a good one. If BR does win and completely replaces DVD (which wont be for quite a while) I'm sure there will be alternative ways to access HD content.

So my vote is for HD DVD or nothing :)

Did you know, Sony has been rated America's favorite brand in 7 of the last 8 years by the largest survey of brands? I wonder why electronics owners don't see the light. Sony is well respecgted here n the USA by the vast majority of folks compared to all other big brands.

Compared to Blu Ray owners, it looks like a fiull 50% more HD DVD owners will give up HD optical media all together if HD DVD loses....Surprising so many more are so [negatively] passionate about their format losing....:(

Compared to Blu Ray owners, it looks like a fiull 50% more HD DVD owners will give up HD optical media all together if HD DVD loses....Surprising so many more are so [negatively] passionate about their format losing....:(

It does seem very stubborn to give up completely. But see my post about the 'math trap' above since the actual percentage of DWTH respondents in each group is even more similar than when I posted and your 50% more is way off.

- Tom

Compared to Blu Ray owners, it looks like a fiull 50% more HD DVD owners will give up HD optical media all together if HD DVD loses....Surprising so many more are so [negatively] passionate about their format losing....:(

Are you being intentionally obtuse or are you too clueless to normalize the results? The normalized responder rates are 21% for both BR and HD DVD dead enders.

The differences worthy of exploration is the difference between "will switch immediately" to "will switch eventually".

Did you know, Sony has been rated America's favorite brand in 7 of the last 8 years by the largest survey of brands? I wonder why electronics owners don't see the light. Sony is well respecgted here n the USA by the vast majority of folks compared to all other big brands.

Compared to Blu Ray owners, it looks like a fiull 50% more HD DVD owners will give up HD optical media all together if HD DVD loses....Surprising so many more are so [negatively] passionate about their format losing....:(


That poll equates brand recognition with "favorite" according to the American public.

For example, go ask in the same type of poll what brand of facial tissue people use - they will say there favorite brand is Kleenex...even if they don't ever buy/use it. The term "Kleenex" has become synonymous with and replaced the generic "facial tissue." Just like how Sony has advertised for decades and now it has the brand recognition everyone knows for a wide range of products. Sony, unlike many of the other brands listed in that poll, is fairly ubiquitous -- it has video, audio, computers, accessories, handhelds, videogames, etc. Chances are people have multiple Sony devices in their house simply due to their large array of products (and may not even realize it).

Ask in a poll if the American public prefers, say, a Sony or a Halcro, Adcom, etc. People may not recognize those so they will pick the Sony....each and every time. Just because they pick something does not mean it is better...otherwise you better sell your gear and buy a Sony. :eek:

The poll has an inherent flaw it its design.

I am very surprised at the number of respondents (over 20%) that would rather have no HD media at all then swallow their pride "switch sides". This isn't the DVD vs. Divx debate. These formats are basically the same.

Note: I do understand and agree with the argument against Sony as a company and their business practices, but I think that is a separate issue.

As I have said a million times. Anyone that doesn't want a new, shiny piece of A/V gear doesn't belong here. :cool:
It's not the gear that's the problem. It's the software.
There's nothing sadder or more wasteful than multiple collections of costly dead formats.

I may have early-adopted one, but the second has to have it's feet firmly planted before I re-invest. It's not my responsibility to keep HDM on life-support.

i am not an enthausist/early adopter (and i do not have that kind of disposable income) but i would not support Blu-Ray (i really dislike that name). i do not currently have an HD DVD (no hyphen) player, but will buy one at the $199.99 level (even though i think $149.99 is a sweet spot.) Too much information? Sorry, if i went a little overboard/off topic.

OK here are some of my reasons why
1) Price - temporary advantage i know, but i am not going to wait another year. i am not willing to buy two players (and i don't want to spend $100 more than i did for my DVD player, $129.99 in 1999.) If my choice does not win i will enjoy the movies i will have for it (and that will probably be enough for me.) Patience has never been one of my strengths.
2) i will not buy a 1080P HDTV and do not want a player that supports it (read that as only interested in a 720P/1080i player.) In other words, i do not want to pay for features that i am not going to use (or at least keep them to a minimum.)
3) i have not really liked a movie since 2001 so new releases do nothing for me (big 1980s movie fan though - especially the WB, Paramount and Universal stuff.)
4) At least for me, at this point in time, the economics/potential looks better for HD DVD (this does frame my view a little.) Basically the theory goes that 720P/1080i dominate HD TV sales (and will continue to do so for a long time.) Entry level HDTV owners are (i expect) more cost conscious and are more likely to opt for lower tier (entry level) models, which favors HD DVD. To sum it up, HD DVD more mass market potential (Blu-Ray without PS3 not a pretty picture.) Studios just follow the money, a 1,000,000 HD DVD install base before Q4 2009 (acutally, i think sooner than that) could break up some exclusivity deals (assuming they are not hard 5+ year contractual deals.)

i am most likely never going to buy a Blu-Ray player (definitely never a Sony.) However, if i ever got one for free/present i would watch it, but buy less than 20 movies for it over the life of the product.

I think this is a bit short sighted. 1080P will be just about the only tvs available in a few years as it is being used as a differentiator in the market place. So you are saying that you will never own a new tv after a few years from now. Yes, Wal-Mart may hang on for cost but the mainstream sales push will be "FULL HD!".

We are not even close to mass market potential until HD media is level with current DVD pricing. I think $199 players will be for people who rent leading to less media sales and continued Blu Ray domination in software sales.

It is also interesting that Support is 60/40 in favor of HD DVD. This is about 5 points off the "other" poll going on now.

i am not an enthausist/early adopter (and i do not have that kind of disposable income) but i would not support Blu-Ray (i really dislike that name). i do not currently have an HD DVD (no hyphen) player, but will buy one at the $199.99 level (even though i think $149.99 is a sweet spot.) Too much information? Sorry, if i went a little overboard/off topic.

OK here are some of my reasons why
1) Price - temporary advantage i know, but i am not going to wait another year. i am not willing to buy two players (and i don't want to spend $100 more than i did for my DVD player, $129.99 in 1999.) If my choice does not win i will enjoy the movies i will have for it (and that will probably be enough for me.) Patience has never been one of my strengths.
2) i will not buy a 1080P HDTV and do not want a player that supports it (read that as only interested in a 720P/1080i player.) In other words, i do not want to pay for features that i am not going to use (or at least keep them to a minimum.)
3) i have not really liked a movie since 2001 so new releases do nothing for me (big 1980s movie fan though - especially the WB, Paramount and Universal stuff.)
4) At least for me, at this point in time, the economics/potential looks better for HD DVD (this does frame my view a little.) Basically the theory goes that 720P/1080i dominate HD TV sales (and will continue to do so for a long time.) Entry level HDTV owners are (i expect) more cost conscious and are more likely to opt for lower tier (entry level) models, which favors HD DVD. To sum it up, HD DVD more mass market potential (Blu-Ray without PS3 not a pretty picture.) Studios just follow the money, a 1,000,000 HD DVD install base before Q4 2009 (acutally, i think sooner than that) could break up some exclusivity deals (assuming they are not hard 5+ year contractual deals.)

i am most likely never going to buy a Blu-Ray player (definitely never a Sony.) However, if i ever got one for free/present i would watch it, but buy less than 20 movies for it over the life of the product.

Interesting view. By all means stick with HDDVD, and if you currently have a 1080i display, buy a 199 player (they are on sale once in a while now!) - but to say you never will get a 1080p player makes no sense to me.

I'm in the same boat as you (I think :) ) I have a 1080i display, no hdmi on my tv OR receiver, so for now the cheapest Toshiba seems like an interesting option. (though on the HDDVD side I also like the xbox addon for my htpc that I'm building). However, my main player will probably be BR and why not spend a little extra on that to make sure it works well, WHEN I buy a new tv/receiver?

The BR consortium did shoot themself in the foot (in my eyes) for a couple of reasons, which is why I'm reluctant to jump:
a) DTS HD MA cannot be decoded in current (somewhat affordable..) players or passed as bitstream in HDMI (for when I get a HDMI receiver..)
b) They messed up with not having their profile settled to begin with.
c) I like the idea of Ethernet

It's possible that either PS3 fixes all three down the road, or that the 2 first ones at least are adressed fairly shortly in new players.

My point is, why not be future proof if you can afford it?

i am not an enthausist/early adopter (and i do not have that kind of disposable income) but i would not support Blu-Ray (i really dislike that name). i do not currently have an HD DVD (no hyphen) player, but will buy one at the $199.99 level (even though i think $149.99 is a sweet spot.) Too much information? Sorry, if i went a little overboard/off topic.

OK here are some of my reasons why
1) Price - temporary advantage i know, but i am not going to wait another year. i am not willing to buy two players (and i don't want to spend $100 more than i did for my DVD player, $129.99 in 1999.) If my choice does not win i will enjoy the movies i will have for it (and that will probably be enough for me.) Patience has never been one of my strengths.
2) i will not buy a 1080P HDTV and do not want a player that supports it (read that as only interested in a 720P/1080i player.) In other words, i do not want to pay for features that i am not going to use (or at least keep them to a minimum.)
3) i have not really liked a movie since 2001 so new releases do nothing for me (big 1980s movie fan though - especially the WB, Paramount and Universal stuff.)
4) At least for me, at this point in time, the economics/potential looks better for HD DVD (this does frame my view a little.) Basically the theory goes that 720P/1080i dominate HD TV sales (and will continue to do so for a long time.) Entry level HDTV owners are (i expect) more cost conscious and are more likely to opt for lower tier (entry level) models, which favors HD DVD. To sum it up, HD DVD more mass market potential (Blu-Ray without PS3 not a pretty picture.) Studios just follow the money, a 1,000,000 HD DVD install base before Q4 2009 (acutally, i think sooner than that) could break up some exclusivity deals (assuming they are not hard 5+ year contractual deals.)

i am most likely never going to buy a Blu-Ray player (definitely never a Sony.) However, if i ever got one for free/present i would watch it, but buy less than 20 movies for it over the life of the product.

A suggestion: when you buy your first Blu-ray player, cut out the "HD DVD" logo and paste it on the front of the player.

No one will much notice the difference, the quality of the picture and sound is very similar.

I think this is a bit short sighted. 1080P will be just about the only tvs available in a few years as it is being used as a differentiator in the market place. So you are saying that you will never own a new tv after a few years from now. Yes, Wal-Mart may hang on for cost but the mainstream sales push will be "FULL HD!".

We are not even close to mass market potential until HD media is level with current DVD pricing. I think $199 players will be for people who rent leading to less media sales and continued Blu Ray domination in software sales.

It is also interesting that Support is 60/40 in favor of HD DVD. This is about 5 points off the "other" poll going on now.

Yeah, the 1080P comment was a little strong (i expect my HDTV to last me the next 10-20 years.) i view 1080P as mostly increasing margins (for slight improvements.) However, i do not agree with the 1080P dominant assertion (more of a high/middle end niche.) i guess i am just overreacting a little to the "Full HD" push. Do i like 1080P? No. The premiums on HDTVs are still too high (the 20" model of the HDTV i have had a store mark-up of 20%.) i see a benefit to a two tier sales system. i see adopters of HDTV over the next 5+ years opting for the cheaper/entry-level models (especially up to the Feb 2009 broadcast switchover). A $200 20", 26" or 32" 720P/1080i HDTV would be huge for HDTV adoption.

Personally, i have seen several HDTVs of 1080P format and the major differences to me (vs 720P - my favorite resolution) were constrast ratio and brightness. So, value-wise the 1080Ps are not worth it to me (of course i am near-sighted and have limited space.) HDTV over the air broadcasts (when they come in) are stunning at 1080i/720P. Over the air/cable broadcasts are (and will be) a major use for HDTVs and i don't see 1080P being a broadcast standard any time soon. i think it is no coincidence that the HD-A2 is one of the better selling units. My main point is that the segmented SKUs for HD DVD players has been/will continue to be a good product differentiation and advantage for those who do not want to pay a premium for features they will not use. Ethernet is a huge feature for me too.

We can definitely agree that HDM is a derived demand based on HDTV market penetration (while we may not agree on the breakdown of the market, or either of the markets.)

At $199.99, for a player to be worth it to me i would have to/intend to purchase 40-200 HD DVDs over the life of the product. As for some other things mentioned ... i do have 3 HDMI ports (capable of recieving 1080P and downconverting), no reciever (and spending another $300+ for one would reduce the value of the player to me), the XBOX 360 add-on is an option (but i won't use a video game system as a optical media player.) i don't want the best specs, i just want what works for me.

Shrug, I'll buy into blu-ray when it drops to $100 or less and the discs are all $20 or less. Otherwise if downloadable beats blu-ray to this then i'll skip blu-ray. For now HD-DVD satisfies my HD wants and needs. I will probably buy into blu-ray for data archival though when the price drops to $150 or less and 50+ gig blanks are less than $5 a disk. Alternatively if the PS3 drops to $250 or less I'd buy one of those.

'I'm for HD DVD but will wait a while but definitely support Blu'

I´m in Europe and i´ve bought a Toshi HD DVD Player, as they are codefree right now and i like to import discs from the US or other non-europe countries. It is very likely, that i´ll get a BR standalone-player as soon as codefree solutions for standalone players become available. If that´s not going to happen for quite some time, i´ll get a br-drive for my htpc and use the "available software-workaround" for codefree. ;) (Would rather prefer a br-standalone player though).

If any of these formats seized to exist, i would still be able to watch my software on my players. I think it´s very likely, that we´ll see prices come down to dvd levels in a few years. So if a disk on the "loosing" format should fail, one could then rebuy it quite cheaply on the "winning" format.

Love the 'format war', as it drives down prices fast and quite a lot of software is available faster than i´ve expected. The only flaw are the 'crazy people' who think they are in some sort of natural selection for their perferred format..... lol

2) i will not buy a 1080P HDTV and do not want a player that supports it (read that as only interested in a 720P/1080i player.) In other words, i do not want to pay for features that i am not going to use (or at least keep them to a minimum.)


Soon 720p may be the extra feature ;)

I'm BD but will immediately support HD DVD.

Format wars may have short term benefits, but are bad for everyone over the medium/long term.

BD has just much more room to grow: ever-improving standards with backwards compatibility for the basic product (the movie), more space for storage for new ideas/feature/etc in the future. And I don't want to see another format war in 4 years.

I am with HDDVD, but I would buy a BR player right now if it were $200. If HDDVD loses, I'll wait until the price of a BR player is $200 or less, and I'll buy it. Makes no sense not to buy it just because my choice lost.