Something posted in Mark Rubin's now closed thread prompted me to take a new look at where forum members stand on preference. One member posted that Blu-ray has become the favorite format of AVS members by 2:1, or something along those lines. Maybe, maybe not. Let's see.

The only meaningful votes are from those that have personal experience with BOTH formats, but that is impossible to police, so the poll will be public so those that know who is who can judge responses appropriately.

You get to be the format god. You get to pick the one format that all studios will use for HD movies. Remember, your choice assumes full industry support (yeah, I know it's a fantasy, but humor me).

Which format would you choose as the one HD disc format for yourself, and everybody else assuming all studios supported that format completely?

If I could make a format from what we have, it would be HDDVD on a bluray disc. It really seems to me that the best technology is split between the two.

You can't have your cake and eat it too. If you can't decide, don't vote.

You can't have your cake and eat it too. If you can't decide, don't vote.
Well, one of these formats will most likely never exist alone. You have your dream world. I'll have mine.

Bloooooo Ray!!!

Well, one of these formats will most likely never exist alone. You have your dream world. I'll have mine.

I thought this was simple enough. It's a theoretical question based on existing conditions. Obviously it isn't going to happen in reality. It is a question of preference based on a given set of known conditions removing the external (ie, political) elements of the equation.

If you know how both formats work in practical use, which would you prefer to be left with if you could make one go away? Simple.

Simple really, more space and more bandwidth.

Two really basic things but both very important.

Interactive features are also on their way and by Oct 31st the final technological advantage that HD DVD has will evaporate.

Max - the poll is for voting - not selling - though nice job ;)

Simple really, more space and more bandwidth.


Also very simple. More efficiency. HD DVD.

Blu-ray. As it stands now, the only advantage HD DVD has is the interactivity, and that is very temporary. Despite a theoretical catchup in terms of disc size, there is one very important thing that HD DVD will never be at anything but disadvantage: the bandwidth limit. This has already caused a problem for at least one disc, and the supposed advantages of VC-1 at lower bandwidths are rapidly being disproven. Meanwhile, the HD DVD combo strategy backfired quite badly.

From a business standpoint, Blu-ray has more existing and announced hardware manufacturer support, as well as a larger existing market.

Max - the poll is for voting - not selling - though nice job ;)Your tiresome attempts to silence those who don't agree with you are getting quite humorous. The OP asked for opinions and they are being given.

I own a HD-DVD add on for the 360, but I can't vote because they both show movies equally. I really don't have a preference.

To the OP.

2 to 1 in favor of Blu-ray is of course too high for this forum. I voted before reading the entire thread, otherwise I would have possibly not voted. While I'm very familiar with both formats I have never "seen" HD-DVD in a home. I also don't see how that matters. My reasons for supporting Blu-ray don't rely on needing to, I'll give it the benefit of the doubt and say its as good and my vote remains the same. But I notice you are trying to see if Blu-ray is 2 to 1 on AVS as someone claimed but then you also ask for only people who have experience with both. I don't think you can have it both ways, you are trying to show this person is wrong about his claim (I'm confident he is), but you also aren't actually going about testing his claim because you are restricted the results in a way that he did not claim. Maybe you can resolve this with a clarification of what you mean by experience with both formats, or perhaps you can remove that qualification entirely.

Also very simple. More efficiency. HD DVD.
I'm reminded of that commercial few years ago from Steak n Shake, they do video comparisons between an assembly line dispensing shakes versus their handmade process. The big line was something like, "Sure our competitor is more effecient, but when's the last time you had a shake and said 'mmm, that tastes efficient.'"

Max - the poll is for voting - not selling - though nice job

Exactly. Why is not important or relevant, at least to this thread and poll. If you feel the need to justify your vote, that says something about you, but not something most people care about. Obviously, some posting is necessary to keep the poll from disappearing, but other than that, just vote your preference.

While I'm very familiar with both formats I have never "seen" HD-DVD in a home. I also don't see how that matters.

I don't know what is worse about this, that you actually think you are "very familiar" with a complex technology that you don't own or use on a regular basis, or that you don't think it matters to your opinion. Either way, you are right about one thing. You shouldn't have voted in this poll.

I don't know if the person claiming 2:1 favor Blu-ray on this forum is correct or not. That's kinda the point here.

Your tiresome attempts to silence those who don't agree with you are getting quite humorous. The OP asked for opinions and they are being given.

Actually, I asked for a vote of preference based on theoretical conditions. As I said above, why you vote the way you do is irrelevant.

I assumed you meant today, and not 5 months from now, so I voted HD DVD basing it off of today's technology due to the finalized spec and region-freeness.

I reserve the right to change my mind in November though. Although I have a feeling region-freeness might still keep me on HD DVD's side.

How, they both use the same codecs.

I can't see any difference other than the fact that BD has more room to grow because of superior bandwidth and space.

Or are you going to dispute that?

:D
I would, but not here.

To dispute that, we'll have to enter an endless philosophical debate on "war versus diplomacy", "force versus gentleness", "size versus use", "ends versus means", "necessity versus choice" that have been debated since before the Greeks.

It will be very funny but a little hermetic.

You have your version of reality... to which I directly opposed mine. But if you cannot think of efficiency outside the current use of codecs, disc size and bandwidth, I cannot really argue with you because I'm not a technician and we do have an absolute discordance on from which bases we start our points of view.

Still, I think I understand the HD DVD vs. Blu-ray war on concepts better than most.

But I won't drag you to any dispute here. You picked blu-ray? Great. :) Let me tell you that I fully understand you line of thought. I just think that is not the best way to go. By a mile. It is unfortunate that so many Bd supporters do not really understand the other-way-around line of thought.

Robert:

You run the risk everytime that one of these HD DVD versus BRD polls/threads turns into a format war thread. I know that was not your intention . . . but that is what is happening.

Look at how many tried to do this very thing on Mark Rubins thread.

Is this supposed to be an ownership poll? How many own which format?

Is this supposed to be an ownership poll? How many own which format?

Nope. I'm interested in what people that have used both formats as they are currently implemented, and based on what one might reasonably expect from a given format in the foreseeable future, might prefer. Obviously, a person who owns players of both formats and buys discs in both formats will have a better perspective on what they do and how they do it.

Thanks. Moving along now....

I bought the format I wanted because I saw it as most capable of winning this format war...and quickly. As such, my answer is Blu-Ray, since it's still in that position. In terms of quality, they're too similar for me to base any decisions on that.

BTW, there is a section in the user profile for listing one's HT gear. I just updated mine.

Clicking on a username listed in a public poll will open that person's public profile. Those voting in a poll like this that don't have both a HD DVD player and a Blu-ray player listed, assuming one has listed their gear, allows others to pretty much ignore their vote.

Just another small tool for forum members to help gauge the credibility of other members.

Apparently people like me (non-owners) were excluded from this poll, but I voted anyway.

I break it down thusly: If you just watch movies and don't care about interactivity, extras, or extra capacity, you should favor HD-DVD, as all signs point to it being cheaper to manufacture. If you care about having interactivity, extras, and extra capacity, and possibly a longer future, you should favor BD, although you probably will pay a slight premium for that.

At this point, it is clear that both formats are the equal re video at 1080p and audio quality, so our votes should be based on how we actually go about watching movies. In the future, when we finally get to 4k resolution and greater than 6.1 sound, I doubt even a 50GB disc would suffice.

Doug

I didn't really exclude anyone. As I stated in the first post, that sort of thing is impossible to police. I do, however, point out that in a poll asking for one's format preference, a vote one way or the other from someone that actually owns and uses both formats simply means more in real terms.

A person who only has a HD DVD player can't really know how Blu-ray compares because they can't compare them. Technical specs only gets one so far. That is a big part of the problem on these forums. Too many people arguing over a spec or a theoretical performance feature that they have no idea how it applies in everyday use.

For instance, my stated preference for HD DVD is not based on something Toshiba or Microsoft say, it is based on my use of multiple HD DVD and Blu-ray players with multiple HD DVD and Blu-ray discs from multiple companies and even multiple countries. What my specific reasons are for my preference mean little to anyone else. what should be considered relevant, though, is that my choice is based on broad personal experience, not on some greedy corporation's marketing hype.

If all studios were neutral I'd take HD DVD. The specs are more finalized. I know my player will play all the features. With mandatory network and audio codec support also an advantage. Blu-Ray's higher capacity is nice, but for the most part not necessary with avc and vc1 showing excellent results with 30gb discs.

If all studios were neutral I'd take HD DVD. The specs are more finalized. I know my player will play all the features. With mandatory network and audio codec support also an advantage. Blu-Ray's higher capacity is nice, but for the most part not necessary with avc and vc1 showing excellent results with 30gb discs.
Agree and add on the price factor. I don't need to own both, as for what I can determine the quality is on par.

I didn't really exclude anyone. As I stated in the first post, that sort of thing is impossible to police. I do, however, point out that in a poll asking for one's format preference, a vote one way or the other from someone that actually owns and uses both formats simply means more in real terms.

A person who only has a HD DVD player can't really know how Blu-ray compares because they can't compare them. Technical specs only gets one so far. That is a big part of the problem on these forums. Too many people arguing over a spec or a theoretical performance feature that they have no idea how it applies in everyday use.

For instance, my stated preference for HD DVD is not based on something Toshiba or Microsoft say, it is based on my use of multiple HD DVD and Blu-ray players with multiple HD DVD and Blu-ray discs from multiple companies and even multiple countries. What my specific reasons are for my preference mean little to anyone else. what should be considered relevant, though, is that my choice is based on broad personal experience, not on some greedy corporation's marketing hype.

Sorry, Robert, I neglected to add the smiley to my first sentance. I didn't mean it in a hrrmph! way, but, more tongue-in-cheek. Just because I do not yet own either format does not mean I am not passionately in favor of some form of HD, and I have at least seen both formats demonstrated and can't tell the slightest difference between the two. I think it's great that we are finally moving beyond 480i, but I'm truely sorry everyone has to go through this current process. I wish it were not so. Oh, by the way, I am firmly in the dual-format player camp. That way I think everyone would be happy.

Doug

Your tiresome attempts to silence those who don't agree with you are getting quite humorous. The OP asked for opinions and they are being given.
I have never understood this line of thinking. If you feel that being challenged on a opinion is an attempt to silence you. YO have serious issues. Lee has no ability to silence anyone here. You can always ignore him if you don't like what he says, or even if you disagree with him.

The only meaningful votes are from those that have personal experience with BOTH formats, but that is impossible to police, so the poll will be public so those that know who is who can judge responses appropriately.


RTFM! :confused: :o

I voted before reading this so my vote should be discounted. Robert can not delete me so I dont want to skew this poll.

Robert,
Sorry, but the results of this poll will be worthless because of the incongruent variables you have injected into the body of your posts. It's not too often I agree with Blu-ray supporters, but seth.s is correct.

To the OP.

2 to 1 in favor of Blu-ray is of course too high for this forum. I voted before reading the entire thread, otherwise I would have possibly not voted. While I'm very familiar with both formats I have never "seen" HD-DVD in a home. I also don't see how that matters. My reasons for supporting Blu-ray don't rely on needing to, I'll give it the benefit of the doubt and say its as good and my vote remains the same. But I notice you are trying to see if Blu-ray is 2 to 1 on AVS as someone claimed but then you also ask for only people who have experience with both. I don't think you can have it both ways, you are trying to show this person is wrong about his claim (I'm confident he is), but you also aren't actually going about testing his claim because you are restricted the results in a way that he did not claim. Maybe you can resolve this with a clarification of what you mean by experience with both formats, or perhaps you can remove that qualification entirely.

BTW, there is a section in the user profile for listing one's HT gear. I just updated mine.

Clicking on a username listed in a public poll will open that person's public profile. Those voting in a poll like this that don't have both a HD DVD player and a Blu-ray player listed, assuming one has listed their gear, allows others to pretty much ignore their vote.

Just another small tool for forum members to help gauge the credibility of other members.

So because I no longer own an HD DVD player and thus don't have it listed in my profile anymore, my vote should be ignored? :confused: I previously owned several HD DVD players and over 50 discs. I'm well aware of what Blu-ray's competition is like.

I voted before reading this so my vote should be discounted. Robert can not delete me so I dont want to skew this poll.

All polls have a margin of error. I assure you, your vote is offset by something similar for the other format.

No harm, no foul.

(At least you had the courtesy to say something ;))

Also very simple. More efficiency. HD DVD.
The 1st HD Disc format. More economic. HD DVD.

So because I no longer own an HD DVD player and thus don't have it listed in my profile anymore, my vote should be ignored?

Okay, you are a special case.

HEY, EVERYBODY, DON'T IGNORE NYG'S VOTE!!

That's the best I can do, dude. I doubt it helped, though.

Okay, you are a special case.

HEY, EVERYBODY, DON'T IGNORE NYG'S VOTE!!

That's the best I can do, dude. I doubt it helped, though.

Yay I'm special. :)

HD DVD, for sure! It has features and does things that Blu-ray does not: In-Motion-Experience/U-Control/iHD, true Picture-in-Picture, mandatory networking, web-enabled content, region free, mandatory Dolby TrueHD decoding, mandatory DD+ decoding, costs less, the OFFICIAL successor to DVD, isn't overloaded with excessive DRM. :)

Sorry, but the results of this poll will be worthless because of the incongruent variables you have injected into the body of your posts. It's not too often I agree with Blu-ray supporters, but seth.s is correct.

Not really. The poll results should be taken in the context of the poll question wording. I am less concerned with a format preference from those that only have half the picture than I am with those that have a more balanced experience with both formats as they have been practically implemented. I think others that may only now be considering one format over the other should pay closer attention to people with real experience with both formats than, well, you know.

Personally, based on the reality of the industry right now, I think anyone even passingly interested in buying movies on HD disc should be not deciding which format to buy, but which player for each format to buy.

Something posted in Mark Rubin's now closed thread prompted me to take a new look at where forum members stand on preference. One smurf posted that Blu-ray has become the favorite format of AVS members by 2:1, or something along those lines. Maybe, maybe not. Let's see.

The only meaningful votes are from those that have personal experience with BOTH formats, but that is impossible to police, so the poll will be public so those that know who is who can judge responses appropriately.

You get to be the format god. You get to pick the one format that all studios will use for HD movies. Remember, your choice assumes full industry support (yeah, I know it's a fantasy, but humor me).

Which format would you choose as the one HD disc format for yourself, and everybody else assuming all studios supported that format completely?


First you say:

"One smurf posted that Blu-ray has become the favorite format of AVS members by 2:1, or something along those lines. Maybe, maybe not. Let's see."

Then you say:
"The only meaningful votes are from those that have personal experience with BOTH formats"

I submit that your stated goal of the poll will not be met given your stated parameters.

Given the spirit of AVS and your disdain for uninformed opinions, you may want to revise your stated goal to something along the lines of 'determining the preference of AVS members that own or have owned both formats'.

I would hate to see someone quote this poll in 3 months saying that AVS members prefer (format here) by x:x.

Given the spirit of AVS and your disdain for uninformed opinions...

You say that like I'm the only person with disdain for uninformed opinions. Given the spirit of AVS, why should any uninformed opinions even be tolerated? How much harder is it to have an informed opinion?

How about we word it this way in three months....

"Three months ago, informed AVS members preferred "X" format by a margin of [insert number] while uninformed members preferred, well, who cares what they preferred. They are uninformed."

Enough bickering.

Poll has been re opened. Please keep the arguing out of this. Just post your vote and realize these type polls are for fun, do not take the results as accurate as many in the HD DVD and BD camp may not read this section.

LOL sometimes you guys are a bunch of old women. Saying your choice is not in the poll, or complaining about the methods of the poll etc LOL.

Read it, vote, that simple. If you dont like the question, dont vote. We could care less about you getting up on the soap box.

Can't help but notice that there are several people who voted for HD DVD that have under 30 posts...including a couple with 1 or 0 posts. Hmm....

I prefer HD DVD(because of interactivity)right now. Once BD is on par with HD DVD specs, starting in November, that might change.

Something posted in Mark Rubin's now closed thread prompted me to take a new look at where forum members stand on preference. One smurf posted that Blu-ray has become the favorite format of AVS members by 2:1, or something along those lines. Maybe, maybe not. Let's see.

The only meaningful votes are from those that have personal experience with BOTH formats, but that is impossible to police, so the poll will be public so those that know who is who can judge responses appropriately.

You get to be the format god. You get to pick the one format that all studios will use for HD movies. Remember, your choice assumes full industry support (yeah, I know it's a fantasy, but humor me).

Which format would you choose as the one HD disc format for yourself, and everybody else assuming all studios supported that format completely?


Robert, it is well known among regulars that HD-DVD fanboy's outnumber Blu-Ray supporters in the AVS forum. You don't need a poll to figure that one out.. However Blu-Ray does have the software sales lead at greater than 2:1 numbers since last Christmas.. And the number of people on this forum who have switched from being an HD-DVD supporter to an avid Blu-Ray supporter keeps on growing.

Please discount my HD DVD vote. While I heavily favor that format, I do not feel qualified to draw adequate comparisons. Sorry for the confusion.

Robert, it is well known among regulars that HD-DVD fanboy's outnumber Blu-Ray supporters in the AVS forum. You don't need a poll to figure that one out.. However Blu-Ray does have the software sales lead at greater than 2:1 numbers since last Christmas.. And the number of people on this forum who have switched from being an HD-DVD supporter to an avid Blu-Ray supporter keeps on growing.

"its well known that HD-DVD fanboys out number Blu Ray supporters.."



http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=877826

Robert, it is well known among regulars that HD-DVD fanboy's outnumber Blu-Ray supporters in the AVS forum. You don't need a poll to figure that one out.. However Blu-Ray does have the software sales lead at greater than 2:1 numbers since last Christmas.. And the number of people on this forum who have switched from being an HD-DVD supporter to an avid Blu-Ray supporter keeps on growing.

Why are the HD DVD side "fanboys" and the BD side are "supporters"? I see fanatics on both sides it isn't red or blue. I own both and buy both but prefer HDDVD. Am I a fanboy supporter then? I don't want to support the fanboys, I want them to go away :)

I'm reminded of that commercial few years ago from Steak n Shake, they do video comparisons between an assembly line dispensing shakes versus their handmade process. The big line was something like, "Sure our competitor is more effecient, but when's the last time you had a shake and said 'mmm, that tastes efficient.'"
That gave me a great laugh, thanks!! :D

The only meaningful votes are from those that have personal experience with BOTH formatsSorry -- I read the poll title but not the first post before voting. If you really intended for only those that have had both formats in their home to vote -- then the poll title should have so indicated.

Looks like a lot voted before they dug down into the thread and read your voting preferences.

I'm fully of the opinion that the video and audio quality of both formats is very good for home usage. Other factors such as price and full spec'd mandatory features do influence me.

RTFM! :confused: :o

I voted before reading this so my vote should be discounted. Robert can not delete me so I dont want to skew this poll.

Me too on that one, doh!

I selected HD DVD. HD DVD currently has the ability to do what I want out of an HD format. Plus I don't need to buy a new player to catch up to the interactivity that my HD DVD player already offers.

Voted blu-ray for significantly more bandwidth and space as well as being more durable. Titles using the same codec and taking advantage of the extra bandwidth also look superior on blu-ray. On average blu-ray has better PQ and SQ as well.

I picked HD DVD because it is the only format that will quickly reached the price point that could catch general consumer attraction.

Initially (last spring), I was firmly in the HD DVD camp. However, that's gradually changed and while I have both formats, I prefer Blu-ray. I think it's a less glitchy format (based on my experience with four different HD DVD players) and I like how the Blu-ray discs are more scratch resistant. This is huge if you stick primarily to renting like I do. I suppose if you buy everything you watch, it's not much of an issue - but I think this point gets forgotten. In addition, I also believe it's important for one format to win and I think Blu-ray has the best chance for this.

I appreciate everyone's participation. The topic is one that interests me in a non-partisan way, and others I am sure. I really am curious how so-called neutral people feel now that we have had time to get used to both formats.

I am also asking that partisan comments and posturing be kept out of this thread. It was closed for a time and I have asked that it be reopened because I think the information adds to the knowledge base of the forum. Even though the subject of the poll is preference, it isn't about format politics.

Thanks.

Unfortunately the only conclusion you could really draw from the poll is how many HD DVD fans and Blu Ray fans lurk on this subforum. Certainly a small sample size but, I agree with the numbers I see thus far as I have always felt the majority of AVS posters were pro-HD DVD.

Unfortunately the only conclusion you could really draw from the poll is how many HD DVD fans and Blu Ray fans lurk on this subforum. Certainly a small sample size but, I agree with the numbers I see thus far as I have always felt the majority of AVS posters were pro-HD DVD.

I think i might be able to expound on your "conclusion" because I ran a poll last week (in the HD Software Forum) polling HD DVD owners about their purchase/rent habits. 326 responses with 13 less posts. - This poll - less than 190 responses with 58 posts

My conclusion - more HD DVD owners are staying away from the HDM Forum and remaining in their respective forum.

I think i might be able to expound on your "conclusion" because I ran a poll last week (in the HD Software Forum) polling HD DVD owners about their purchase/rent habits. 326 responses with 13 less posts. - This poll - less than 190 responses with 58 posts

My conclusion - more HD DVD owners are staying away from the HDM Forum and remaining in their respective forum.

Well, your conclusion (above) is more of an opinion but not supported at all by this particular poll.

You should craft another poll to test your hypothesis.

Well, your conclusion (above) is more of an opinion but not supported at all by this particular poll.

You should craft another poll to test your hypothesis.

Of course it is an opinion. My poll asked 3 questions. The responses to the poll (not the thread) was much higher - from that I am drawing my conclusive opinion :D

The only way to test it is two have 2 polls exactly the same on both forums - not sure that one will fly with the mods ;)

Sorry -- I read the poll title but not the first post before voting. If you really intended for only those that have had both formats in their home to vote -- then the poll title should have so indicated.

Honest question...

Does anyone believe asking ONLY those that own both formats to vote would have any effect on those intent on personal agendas anyway? I did say in the first post of the thread what the purpose of the poll was and indicated that it was intended for those that KNOW both formats to give their preference in that context.

The poll is public. The voters usernames are there for all to see. Those that are obviously biased one way or the other are known well enough to those members that frequent these forums.

You all look like Europeans discussing something simple: "it can't be simple, otherwise we wouldn't be discussing it. So it must me a lot more complicated than that! Let's deconstruct it then!" :D

LOL

It was a poll... who prefers one?... who prefers the other? There only one answer to be extracted from that.

And it has nothing to do with format fanaticism. Why do people here insist of putting other people with one preference over another under the stereotype of a fanatic?

I prefer HD DVD over Blu-ray. And have faith that the format I chose to support is better. Must I support two formats just for political correctness? Why are you calling me a fan?

I'm not a fan. I'm a supporter. And I love movies... so I'll buy plenty blu-ray if it wins. "If you don't like it, don't buy it" is not an option.

Plus: I do not believe there is one single person here who's not biased by some reason. Everybody here knows too much about HD (or thinks he knows) to be unbiased.

With all respect, I think lots of people here overestimate the importance of unbiasedness and pretend that the forum is a place for an elegant and objective neutrality. That's not a forum. That's Switzerland in 1939.

Only middle consumers are unbiased, since they go where Rosemary goes. And we all lost the royal title of Middle Consumer the moment we came here.

Thanks for your time.

Tech:

I agree with you in general terms, but I guess I'm looking for a rather more narrow sample of opinion. Of course I agree that everyone can have a preference and that preference is as valid as the next guy. But, being one that buys and uses both formats regularly, and having developed a preference based on real-world use rather than marketing specs and theoretical capability, I am interested in what others with similar experience are thinking.

Maybe I should have polled this way...

"Now that you have owned HD DVD and Blu-ray for a while, if you could choose one format for all studios to support, which would it be?"

Voted blu-ray for significantly more bandwidth and space as well as being more durable. Titles using the same codec and taking advantage of the extra bandwidth also look superior on blu-ray. On average blu-ray has better PQ and SQ as well.

Are those your opinions or fact based statements you can backup?

I really am curious how so-called neutral people feel now that we have had time to get used to both formats.


I have the XA2 and the BDP-S1: if you pop the same title into each (say Phantom, for example) , I think you would be hard pressed to identify any difference between the two formats

just my opinion as a format neutral member- many are quick to point out differences in specs , price, et al ...and yes there are differences, but the bottom line is both formats have proven their ability to deliver excellent quality audio and video

It is time now to move to a single format, or a dual format machine, so the entire HD optical disc format does not die out

reminds me of the saying: can`t see the forest for the trees [ Definition: overly concerned with detail; not understanding the whole situation]

reminds me of the saying: can`t see the forest for the trees

Or the old saying:

"It is very difficult to make forward progress. . . . with one foot nailed to the floor"

Or the old Chinese Proverb Pun:

"War does not determine who is right. . . .War determines who is left"

:D

Voted blu-ray for significantly more bandwidth and space as well as being more durable. Titles using the same codec and taking advantage of the extra bandwidth also look superior on blu-ray. On average blu-ray has better PQ and SQ as well


Are those your opinions or fact based statements you can backup?

A bit of fact and opinon. The opinion part comes from reviews, which of course are opinion. Dobyblue has compiled all the reviews from 5 major review sites and blu-ray comes ahead in PQ and SQ on average.

I have the XA2 and the BDP-S1: if you pop the same title into each (say Phantom, for example) , I think you would be hard pressed to identify any difference between the two formats

just my opinion as a format neutral member- many are quick to point out differences in specs , price, et al ...and yes there are differences, but the bottom line is both formats have proven their ability to deliver excellent quality audio and video

It is time now to move to a single format, or a dual format machine, so the entire HD optical disc format does not die out

reminds me of the saying: can`t see the forest for the trees


Of course Mark if you have exactly the same title encoded with the exact same codec, as POTO was with VC-1, there should be no difference in PQ. If POTO was re-encoded to use up the extra bandwidth and bitrate that a BD50 and Blu-Ray allows, I have no doubt POTO would be ranked higher on the tier list. However the players themselves will be the difference at that point in time and 1080p24 vs 1080p160 output and the HDTV or projector in question doing scaling to something else will affect PQ. However there are examples of two different encodes being done for the same film, each using the medium to its fullest potential. The Xylon mouse overs are a good example with Flags of our Fathers and We were Soldiers. I know HD-DVD delivers excellent PQ, however Blu-Ray has proven to be "a little" better which in this format war makes a huge difference on large screens and as time goes leaves greater room to work with and improve. As for me I feel it is a little more than a "little better" since I've done lengthy comparisons with large groups of AVS members who are as picky as I am using multiple screens and Blu-Ray has taken the lead over HD-DVD in my opinion.

http://www.mbmg.de/hd-discs/
d
http://www.mbmg.de/hd-discs/flagsofourfathers_b-vs-hd/01.html

Mark, with Flags of our Fathers, you should notice that the HD-DVD PQ looks softer and has less grain with slightly less detail. This is amplified the larger screen you go however it is visible on any LCD 17 inch monitor that AVC at high bitrates preserves the grain better.. Furthermore this is apparent in the We were soldiers comparison as well and is an issue with the use of VC-1 as the older codec mpeg2 doesn't eliminate grain to such a degree. And as Audio Video enthusiasts will agree, grain holds the detail for film since each dot of grain is a pixel on the film. For folms that don't have much grain to begin with like The PRestige, the use of VC-1 does a good job and the differences between AVC and VC-1 are minimal. However most films, especially catalog titles have lots of grain and to me, I do not want low bitrate VC-1 softening the image when using a higher bitrate BD50 allows for the grain to be better preserved,so it doesn't have to be done due to disc size or bandwidth limitations. You may ask why eliminate grain during the encode in the first place? Because it makes the file size smaller and the bandwidth/bitrate will be lower allowing for a higher bitrate audio to be used since they share bandwidth... Before BD50's showed their true potential, I was firmly in the HD-DVD camp since you can go back and read all my old posts.. It took awhile to fully support Blu-Ray and I didn't swicth sides over nothing..

I have the XA2 and the BDP-S1: if you pop the same title into each (say Phantom, for example) , I think you would be hard pressed to identify any difference between the two formats

Absolutely agree, Mark. But, isn't it possible that you may have developed a preference based on other factors besides just image or audio qality? That's what I'm after. Remember, this is a "what if" poll. "What if", you could pick that one surviving format that all studios would support? You have used both formats. Forgetting reality and politics for the moment, just based on your personal experience with both formats, vote your preference.

with all due respect, why can't someone be truly neutral? why keep pushing that you have to admit to a bias or a preference?

This battle will not be decided by the criteria discussed here: it will be decided by the market place: the deciding factors may be price, or content, or capacity, or durability...who knows

I don't understand why some members are so heavily invested in this battle: this is not our battle: it is a battle between the studios and CEO's of some very powerful companies who are driving this: let them sweat out the solution: they have the deep pockets to finance it: at most members may regret buying one format or player instead of another: so be it for early adopters

This battle is being prolonged because everyone is demanding every member here state a preference or a bias: I see no reason to do that

I want my HD: any way I can get more HD is good: period

with all due respect, why can't someone be truly neutral? why keep pushing that you have to admit to a bias or a preference?

This battle will not be decided by the criteria discussed here: it will be decided by the market place: the deciding factors may be price, or content, or capacity, or durability...who knows

I don't understand why some members are so heavily invested in this battle: this is not our battle: it is a battle between the studios and CEO's of some very powerful companies who are driving this: let them sweat out the solution: they have the deep pockets to finance it: at most members may regret buying one format or player instead of another: so be it for early adopters

This battle is being prolonged because everyone is demanding every member here state a preference or a bias: I see no reason to do that

I want my HD: any way I can get more HD is good: period

+1

with all due respect, why can't someone be truly neutral? why keep pushing that you have to admit to a bias or a preference?

This battle will not be decided by the criteria discussed here: it will be decided by the market place: the deciding factors may be price, or content, or capacity, or durability...who knows

I don't understand why some members are so heavily invested in this battle: this is not our battle: it is a battle between the studios and CEO's of some very powerful companies who are driving this: let them sweat out the solution: they have the deep pockets to finance it: at most members may regret buying one format or player instead of another: so be it for early adopters

This battle is being prolonged because everyone is demanding every member here state a preference or a bias: I see no reason to do that

I want my HD: any way I can get more HD is good: period

I believe most people in general still want one HD disc format and some people have bought a couple of hundred discs of their favorite format and there is some anxiety if it fails. I agree that's the chance you take as an early adopter, however.

I believe most people in general still want one HD disc format and some people have bought a couple of hundred discs of their favorite format and there is some anxiety if it fails.

yes I understand that,and they may feel like they have to protect and defend their choice, but early adopters are not going to decide this battle

I have an attic full of early adopter purchases, but that does not mean I am still pushing for [fill in name of some technology that failed] just because I bought into it

If this whole battle does not get resolved soon , we could see both formats end up in the attic

I believe most people in general still want one HD disc format and some people have bought a couple of hundred discs of their favorite format and there is some anxiety if it fails. I agree that's the chance you take as an early adopter, however.

Indeed, i want one format so that there is a chance at mainstream adoption and the competition between studios for best PQ/AQ and between the hardware companys for best hardware and features. As long as there is a war, everything tends to get rushed with software and hardware just to try and get a upper hand. There is no future in that scenerio, IMO.

with all due respect, why can't someone be truly neutral? why keep pushing that you have to admit to a bias or a preference?

This battle will not be decided by the criteria discussed here: it will be decided by the market place: the deciding factors may be price, or content, or capacity, or durability...who knows

I don't understand why some members are so heavily invested in this battle: this is not our battle: it is a battle between the studios and CEO's of some very powerful companies who are driving this: let them sweat out the solution: they have the deep pockets to finance it: at most members may regret buying one format or player instead of another: so be it for early adopters

This battle is being prolonged because everyone is demanding every member here state a preference or a bias: I see no reason to do that

I want my HD: any way I can get more HD is good: period

Let me tell you why I am 180º away from you:

FIRST
Because I don't think there is an equivalence of power between the two parties.

SECOND
Because I feel that the disc itself is an irrelevant issue here. What is relevant is a group of other issues that look so irrelevant to consumers that these same consumers have no idea in what "future of entertainment" they are investing.

THIRD
I feel consumers are unprotected in regard to rights they made very clear that they want to keep - or I'm misreading it badly. And the only well informed people (supporting whatever format) is here... but "here" is insignificant.

FOURTH
I don't think one is neutral just because one has two players. The best thing one can say is that he doesn't really care... then the best solution could be "wait". If not, in the end, you'll have to chose which version of The Searchers you'll get. HD DVD? Blu-ray?

It's an interesting theme... :)

Next 5 years of revenue for DVD - assumes no growth and no loss to the market:

$130 Billion Dollars

THAT is worth fighting for - especially if you are a $50 billion or $60 billion company like Toshiba and Sony are respectively.

And we use the war for entertainment purposes - something to discuss and post about - that's all.

Can we here at AVS influence the wars outcome?

Not a snowballs chance in hell.

Nope. I'm interested in what people that have used both formats as they are currently implemented, and based on what one might reasonably expect from a given format in the foreseeable future, might prefer. Obviously, a person who owns players of both formats and buys discs in both formats will have a better perspective on what they do and how they do it.

I agree. But did everyone that voted, have BOTH formats? I would think not.

I have both formats. I started out with HD-DVD. I then bought the LG dual-format player. Now when I have a choice, I go with the Blu-Ray disc. I'm not really sure why. I mean, there's no technical reason. But for some reason, I seem to automatically by the BD version when both are available. However, in the end, if HD-DVD wins, I'll be just as happy.

This battle is being prolonged because everyone is demanding every member here state a preference or a bias: I see no reason to do that

On that we don't agree. Maybe a few members, but not most, and certainly not me. I think you have misread the intent of this poll, and maybe DrDon did as well when he closed it yesterday.

I'm not demanding anything. I'm simply curious what other people that have experience with both formats think. Hell, one's preference might be for something as simple as they like the color of one case over the other. If there is no preference, then one doesn't HAVE to vote. The poll is to gauge what format is appealing to the sort of hobbyist that would come to a forum like this, if there is a preference at all.

I actually asked that people NOT come in justifying their vote. When someone feels the need to justify their opinion, then that is what inevitably leads to argument. I don't care about that. There really is no agenda in this poll. I guess I could have worded it better, but it's up now.

But did everyone that voted, have BOTH formats? I would think not.

Granted, but unless you know of a way to enforce that sort of condition on an open forum, we have what we have and we can make the best of it. Obviously, there are votes on both sides from people that are not format neutral and are simply voting their favorite. Perhaps one offsets the other and with a large enough sample, the results could be considered at least somewhat accurate.

Started with HD-DVD now own both, but have been going more to the blu ray side, to a point where now i wont buy HD-DVD movies until i see it improve its position. (but i still have my HD-DVD gear for now)

Ultimately i want Discs in HD, so whoever wins will get my money, but at this time blu ray seems to be the better format and i prefer the look of AVC BD over VC-1 HD-DVD, but thats personnel preference. BD has the titles i want as well.

Price always falls so that is a none issue long term.

So i voted Blu Ray, but if it fails and HD-DVD wins, then it will be HD-DVD. Somthing is better than nothing, but while there is a choice, i will go with whats superior long term. IMHO

Sadly neither side is perfect

HD DVD!

Because of the two competing formats, it has the best chance of overtaking SD DVD. Blu-ray is too complex and costly to realistically challenge SD DVD for years to come IMO, whereas HD DVD could reasonably overtake SD DVD in 2-3 years if studios and CE gave it a serious push.

I have a XA2 and I've used netflix and my brother's PS3 to try BD.

My personal decree if I could make it would be HDDVD for the very simple reason of no region encoding.

I like to pick up movies on vacation and I also order foreign movies so HD DVDs lack of regions is the biggest winner for me as on my current setup(720p FP) which I plan to have for at least the next 3 years there isn't much difference and by the time I upgrade projectors we will be on the verg of HD downloads.

I only read this far before I cast my vote

Something posted in Mark Rubin's now closed thread prompted me to take a new look at where forum members stand on preference. One member posted that Blu-ray has become the favorite format of AVS members by 2:1, or something along those lines. Maybe, maybe not. Let's see.

Turns out that you don't want to know which format is preferred by AVS members, just AVS members with both platforms.

Disregard 1 HD DVD vote then, sorry.

Tech:

I agree with you in general terms, but I guess I'm looking for a rather more narrow sample of opinion. Of course I agree that everyone can have a preference and that preference is as valid as the next guy. But, being one that buys and uses both formats regularly, and having developed a preference based on real-world use rather than marketing specs and theoretical capability, I am interested in what others with similar experience are thinking.

Maybe I should have polled this way...

"Now that you have owned HD DVD and Blu-ray for a while, if you could choose one format for all studios to support, which would it be?"

Oh... I forgot to mention: I also have both formats. I didn't have to buy it, it's true... but I ended up having a Blu-ray player as well as HD DVD (this one I bought). So far, I have lots of HD DVDs, but no Blu-rays. Maybe I'll give in to temptation when Lawrence of Arabia... or The Sound of Music come out.

But you already know what I think. :)

There is quite a good participation, looks like a very representative sample has been achieved. I don't think the percentage is going to swing much unless there is block of uncounted chads from Dade County. (It's amazing how disproportionate the noise din is.)

I don't think the percentage is going to swing much unless there is block of uncounted chads from Dade County.

:D

(I'm in Florida)

Although both pics and sounds would be the same, i'd go with blu-ray for the capacity.

Blu-Ray. HD-DVD is the format for grumpy old men who hold a grudge against Sony.

Blu-Ray. HD-DVD is the format for grumpy old men who hold a grudge against Sony.
grudges are caused by something/someone so...

grudges are caused by something/someone so...

I'll admit that I don't recall Sony ever doing anything to really irritate me. Microsoft on the other hand... :mad:

I'll admit that I don't recall Sony ever doing anything to really irritate me. Microsoft on the other hand... :mad:the Sony propaganda campaign is enough for me to begrudge them

A bit of fact and opinon. The opinion part comes from reviews, which of course are opinion. Dobyblue has compiled all the reviews from 5 major review sites and blu-ray comes ahead in PQ and SQ on average.

Correct and not much has changed since the July 9th update.
Lots more Universal titles added though, but this hasn't done much to help the average HD DVD scores.

HDD 208HD/228BD, HTS 201HD/213BD, HTF 65HD/86BD, UD 133HD/123BD, Talk 248HD/262BD
07.24.07
HD DVD PQ SQ TOTAL Blu-ray PQ SQ TOTAL
HighDef 3.89 3.62 3.75 HighDef 3.98 3.83 3.91
HTSpot 3.92 3.83 3.88 HTSpot 4.04 4.24 4.14
DVDTalk 3.65 3.48 3.57 DVDTalk 3.66 3.69 3.68
HTForum 3.99 3.69 3.84 HTForum 4.30 4.08 4.19
UpDisc 4.02 3.81 3.92 UpDisc 4.06 4.15 4.10
Totals 3.88 3.68 3.78 Totals 3.94 3.95 3.94

PQ Studio
4.19 Buena Vista
4.02 Paramount
3.95 Warner
3.94 Sony
3.84 Fox
3.80 Weinstein
3.73 Universal
3.66 Lionsgate

SQ Studio
4.38 Buena Vista
4.12 Sony
4.08 Fox
3.81 Lionsgate
3.81 Paramount
3.63 Warner
3.63 Universal
3.63 Weinstein

thanks dobyblue!

The results of this poll show a larger number of Blu-Ray supporters than I would have expected considering past poll results..

Blu-Ray for:

Durability
Disc space
Bandwith
readily available burners

I picked Blu-ray because the players have Last Memory and I've never had to return a BD because it wouldn't play. I think that the exclusion of Last Memory on HD-DVD players is a big deal. It's simply an expected convience feature with folks. I've had to exchange or return an inordinate number of Universal's HD-DVD's. Everybody else's HD-DVD's have served me better. I have never had to return a BD.

I could live with HD-DVD if the players got better. I'm not torn up over the fur-mat skuffle.

Correct and not much has changed since the July 9th update.
Lots more Universal titles added though, but this hasn't done much to help the average HD DVD scores.

HDD 208HD/228BD, HTS 201HD/213BD, HTF 65HD/86BD, UD 133HD/123BD, Talk 248HD/262BD
07.24.07
HD DVD PQ SQ TOTAL Blu-ray PQ SQ TOTAL
HighDef 3.89 3.62 3.75 HighDef 3.98 3.83 3.91
HTSpot 3.92 3.83 3.88 HTSpot 4.04 4.24 4.14
DVDTalk 3.65 3.48 3.57 DVDTalk 3.66 3.69 3.68
HTForum 3.99 3.69 3.84 HTForum 4.30 4.08 4.19
UpDisc 4.02 3.81 3.92 UpDisc 4.06 4.15 4.10
Totals 3.88 3.68 3.78 Totals 3.94 3.95 3.94

PQ Studio
4.19 Buena Vista
4.02 Paramount
3.95 Warner
3.94 Sony
3.84 Fox
3.80 Weinstein
3.73 Universal
3.66 Lionsgate

SQ Studio
4.38 Buena Vista
4.12 Sony
4.08 Fox
3.81 Lionsgate
3.81 Paramount
3.63 Warner
3.63 Universal
3.63 Weinstein

The above data that shows that, according to reviews, Blu-ray does have better picture and sound (therefore Boo-ray MUST be better) is totally irrelevant.

Why? Because the studios in question are not releasing the same type of films. Some studios are releasing a higher number of blockbusters or films with heavy CGI and sound effects (who obviously stand out when compared to an 80's film) while others are releasing a broader mix of blockbusters and catalog titles.

It is a waste of time (if not a dishonest and gross fallacy) to proclaim the superiority of one format because of "some" average you find withing 150 titles compared or something like that.

I'd like to include myself in the category of people who knows that reality kicks in every time we admit that no studio treats all films the same way. Nor do they ever will. And there is no format that will ever make them change that.

Universal, for example has released lots of catalog titles who probably did not get top treatment OR simply do not stand out visually as Pirates of the Caribbean (this has nothing to do with the HD DVD format). Warner, seems to be doing a great job releasing older classics (and I'm thrilled to see Deliverance coming soon). Fox and Sony have yet to release any classics from The Searchers or Rio Bravo era (because they seem to be investing in another kind of films).

Every studio has its release policy and that has nothing to do with the format quality.

So, it is ridiculous to claim any kind of superiority based in averages.

You have some good points in that there are different types of films, etc. However it is not dishonest to state the facts that blu-ray does have better PQ and SQ on average per those reviews. Dobyblue is not excluding movies, he's including such horrid titles like 5th Element and other early titles that are underwhelming on blu-ray from around launch last year.

You have some good points in that there are different types of films, etc. However it is not dishonest to state the facts that blu-ray does have better PQ and SQ on average per those reviews. Dobyblue is not excluding movies, he's including such horrid titles like 5th Element and other early titles that are underwhelming on blu-ray from around launch last year.

Dishonesty is like love: it may come in many ways.

What's safer? Air travel or Car travel? Air travel, everybody claims (and it may well be true).
But air crashes are so dramatic on the news and so spectacular when they occur that everybody fears a plane crash much more than a car crash.

The problem is that I do not dispute the reviews and the merit of those studios WHEN IT COMES TO PICK TITLES THAT MAKE A BIGGER IMPRESSION on reviewers.

But that has nothing to do with the merit of each format.

And the way those averages are used, DO TRY to pass the impression that one format simply has the best picture because of the format - not because of the films chosen for release.

Dishonesty is like love: it may come in many ways.

What's safer? Air travel or Car travel? Air travel, everybody claims (and it may well be true).
But air crashes are so dramatic on the news and so spectacular when they occur that everybody fears a plane crash much more than a car crash.

The problem is that I do not dispute the reviews and the merit of those studios WHEN IT COMES TO PICK TITLES THAT MAKE A BIGGER IMPRESSION on reviewers.

But that has nothing to do with the merit of each format.

And the way those averages are used, DO TRY to pass the impression that one format simply has the best picture because of the format - not because of the films chosen for release.

That's all fine and dandy to talk about cars and air travel and love. Still doesn't validate any claims of dishonesty. Facts are facts regardless of spin.

I do look forward Nature's Journey comparisons as that have been optimized for the bandwidth limitations of each format.

I don't want to get involved in the merits of relating these review averages to quality of format, but I just wanted to add that while it's true that facts are facts, their relevance to the point being made is fair game for further analysis.

That's all fine and dandy to talk about cars and air travel and love. Still doesn't validate any claims of dishonesty. Facts are facts regardless of spin.

I do look forward Nature's Journey comparisons as that have been optimized for the bandwidth limitations of each format.

Oh, puh-lease! :p
Is the Wii a better console than the PS3 because it has more software? Is it better because it has better average rated games? Is it better because it has more games for children?

I always thought that in order to get a valid comparison (at any point) you should do apples against other apples.

Compare movies available in both formats and there you have it. And I guess that's been done and the answer is inconclusive. At best.

Oh, puh-lease! :p

Movie sounds cool to me, though I love nature stuff like Planet Earth and Blue Planet. Sounds like it will be out in October though due to some hassle with Microsoft.

Movie sounds cool to me, though I love nature stuff like Planet Earth and Blue Planet. Sounds like it will be out in October though due to some hassle with Microsoft.

Oh, now it's Microsoft...

Four words to that:
1 - Batman
2 - Returns
3 - Matrix
4 - Trilogy

I'm sure that has nothing to do with hassle with Sony because they're a doll!

:p

Oh, now it's Microsoft...

Four words to that:
1 - Batman
2 - Returns
3 - Matrix
4 - Trilogy

I'm sure that has nothing to do with hassle with Sony because they're a doll!

:p

Not my words, straight from the source RBFilms (Executive Producer):

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=868185&page=1&highlight=nature+s+journey

Also, most important of all, Microsoft is delaying the release of Natures Journey because they are not issuing an ISAN Number for this title. They gave me one for CHRONOS in 24 hours. However, for this release, it is a different story.

I initially called Kevin, my contact at Microsoft for ISAN Numbers about this release. He said he would get me an ISAN Number issued "right away." That was about three (3) weeks ago and since then he has failed to return what must be over twenty (20) e-mails and phone calls to his office.

I tried getting an ISAN elsewhere, but the fact that I registered with Microsoft initially makes this problematic.

Technicolor cannot release my master for replication without an ISAN Number. Microsoft is causing this release to be delayed ta this point.

OK...I have plenty more to say about Microsoft, but it is off-topic...so I will put a peg in it here for now..

So do you believe those movies are not coming to blu-ray?

So when HD-DVd individuals claim on average the PQ is better on HD-DVD, or that they feel blind buying is easier with that format due to higher PQ quality thats OK, but when you have some actual information that implies actualy BD has better average PQ and Sound, somehow its meaningless.

ive seen on many forums people make the claim HD-DVD uses VC-1 so it has higher picture quality, the facts however say otherwise. its much more even than that with BD slightly ahead on average. Dosent mean HD-DVD dosent have excellent transfers or that BD dosent have stinkers, but its a nice guide.

either is fine by me. you need to have that option.

Interesting results so far...

Interesting results so far...

True - so much for the 2 to 1 ratio of HD DVD owners to BRD owners here at AVS - as was thought in the first few pages of this thread.

Hey look . . . HD DVD is winning the poll! Whoopee! We have a % in our favor for a change! :D

Interesting results so far...

The tide is definitely turning at AVS :D Heck one day it might even be close to the results of non-AVS crowd where blu-ray is completely dominately. Maybe not, at the video game forums back in the PS2/xbox days, the ratio at AVS wasn't representative at all of the real world ratios, almost the exact opposite.

I could live with HD-DVD if the players got better. I'm not torn up over the fur-mat skuffle.

I'm sure many of are wanting to know what -I- think...

hrm, nobody? ah, well, typically, I'll just plow ahead then... :)

A decent question in this poll, unfortunately one that brings up the very issues I deal with all the time as a format neutral HD supporter. I bought HD first, and I still buy any title with better features (or, of course, format exclusivity) on HD. When it's apples to apples (the more recent Paramount and Warner releases, for example) I go BD. It's certainly -not- because of format superiority, or durability, it's a simple fact that my BD player is far better/faster/more reliable than my Tosh. Heck, I've totally given up on ever solving HDMI>DVI fun with my A1, and have taken to hooking it up via Component. On my CRT RPTV, there's not a humungous difference between the inputs when calibrated. I owned an A2 for about a week (early in the FW upgrade days) and experienced Hex errors that made me never want to shell out for the XA2. I've yet to have a single warble or major error with the Panny (there are some weird skips on the Pirates bonus materials, but this is far less egregious than a meltdown).

I like what HD DVD has been doing in terms of catalogue releases (Casablanca, Lebowski, etc.) I think that Fox's absence is pretty ridiculous. I think that Sony and Disney are doing a great job with many recent releases. I think that PS3 owners care more for Crank than they do Lawrence of Arabia, which makes me fear for the future of the format. I think that HD DVD will never be more than an almost-equal format, and that if one of them is to dominate it will be BD. I think that, however, neither will dominate, that the status quo will continue for some time to come, and that I enjoy each and every release as I get to own it on shiny disc, pending the inevitable push to downloading.

I think that the 60/40 split will continue, and would love it if, nonetheless, the combined might and momentum of HD and BD sees a dramatic increase in classic and important films on HD media, given the same care shown with several titles already released.

I went into this who HD thing with full and utter commitment to the fact that I'd be owning two players, and that the format "war" would be going on for some time, resulting in a mixed collection. It's a failed metaphor, but that's one lesson I learned from the high-rez audio war, that to own all you want to own you simply needed to have players for each format (as I type, I'm listening to the new Genesis box, released within the last few weeks on the "dead" format of SACD).

So, your question: HD vs. BD? Well, for now, and for the foreseeable future, both. Which would I prefer? If I could get a player that flawlessly played back HD discs, that the issues with scratches, barfs, hex errors and such was proven to be -player- related and not format related, then I'd probably vote for that. However, in this real world, with Tosh for all intents and purposes the only manufacturer of consumer-level equipment (pending working, HDi-capable devices from LG and Samsung) I'm left building a library that's growing to be majority BD.

So, yeah, no point in voting, my reasons for chosing one over the other have next to nothing to do with -format- dominance, they have to do with my unique, personal situation owning a much better BD player than my HD DVD player.

Sadly, the format war will not be decided based on what I have chosen, otherwise, I'd hope you'd all agree, my benevolent actions would be put to good use for the lot of us... ;)

In the mean time, and for some time to come, I think the best solution is to pick and choose those titles that you want for whichever player you prefer, and to relish in this time where we're getting (on BOTH formats) the best HT experience in history, and likely the best for many, many years to come.

The tide is definitely turning at AVS Heck one day it might even be close to the results of non-AVS crowd where blu-ray is completely dominately. Maybe not, at the video game forums back in the PS2/xbox days, the ratio at AVS wasn't representative at all of the real world ratios, almost the exact opposite.

Run a similar poll at Home Theater Forum and DVD Talk and see what sort of ratio you get.

Had those Blu-ray exclusive owners not come into this poll a couple of days ago and started voting for the only format they have seen instead of the people that have experience with both formats like the poll asked for, the ratio wouldn't even be as close as it is right now. For the first few days of this poll, when the guidelines were at least being followed a little bit, it stayed around 60/40. That's where I think it really is among dual format owners.

Run a similar poll at Home Theater Forum and DVD Talk and see what sort of ratio you get.

Had those Blu-ray exclusive owners not come into this poll a couple of days ago and started voting for the only format they have seen instead of the people that have experience with both formats like the poll asked for, the ratio wouldn't even be as close as it is right now. For the first few days of this poll, when the guidelines were at least being followed a little bit, it stayed around 60/40. That's where I think it really is among dual format owners.

I took your statement as meaning a person who has experienced both, not owning both which is why I voted. Regardless there are people that own both as well but are clearly biased towards 1 side (blu or red) regardless of merit.

1st post:
The only meaningful votes are from those that have personal experience with BOTH formats, but that is impossible to police, so the poll will be public so those that know who is who can judge responses appropriately.

Also on can just as and should just easily say:
"Had those HD DVD exclusive owners not come into this poll........."

.
.
:cool:

The above data that shows that, according to reviews, Blu-ray does have better picture and sound

I know, but at the end of the day it's just averages and no-one should get their knickers in a twist because of it.

It's merely showing the averages of ALL the scored titles reviewed from those five site, nothing more, nothing less.

Blu-ray on average has a better looking product. Blame Disney and Sony for putting so much effort into their titles this year and Universal for putting very little in, do whatever you want, but it doesn't change the fact that the movies unique to Blu-ray this year have been of a much higher quality when it comes to PQ and SQ than HD DVD exclusive titles.

Not my words, straight from the source RBFilms (Executive Producer):

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=868185&page=1&highlight=nature+s+journey

So do you believe those movies are not coming to blu-ray?

Of course they will be available on Blu-ray... some day.

But the fact they are not on Blu-ray right now has to do with Blu-ray's limitations. Not Microsoft... or warner... or Toshiba... or someone who just woke up in a bad mood.

And frankly, I have no idea why you brought up the Amir/RBFilms issue here. What's your point? Are you implying Microsoft is trying to block a glorious Blu-ray release? Please... conspiracy theories now?

I'm centering my argumentation around a flaw on the blu-ray format that makes it incapable to compete with HD DVD (that's the truth behind The Matrix and Batman). Not around a problem between two execs.

Are you sure you wanna keep discussing in those terms?

I know, but at the end of the day it's just averages and no-one should get their knickers in a twist because of it.

It's merely showing the averages of ALL the scored titles reviewed from those five site, nothing more, nothing less.

Blu-ray on average has a better looking product. Blame Disney and Sony for putting so much effort into their titles this year and Universal for putting very little in, do whatever you want, but it doesn't change the fact that the movies unique to Blu-ray this year have been of a much higher quality when it comes to PQ and SQ than HD DVD exclusive titles.

And you suppose that makes a better format?

Ok. :p ...Boy, you are an easy crowd to please...

Which format would you prefer if Universal supported it completely

Blu-Ray!

Wow, BD has gained a lot of ground compared to earlier polls. I remember 2:1 for HD DVD being the norm.

This is also reflected in the forum viewer numbers that used to be very HD DVD skewed and are now about even.

The poll is closed, The war is over, HD DVD has won, everyone can go home now! :D

The poll is closed, The war is over, HD DVD has won, everyone can go home now! :D

The poll is closed, The war is over, HD DVD has won, everyone can go home now! :D

LOL

Wait until the next "Format God" comes along though. ;)