What is the easiset way for me to make the leap to HDDVD or bluray?
I have an XG1352 LC with a moome DVI I/P and I Scan HD+ scaler equiped with SDI.

Steve

What is the easiset way for me to make the leap to HDDVD or bluray?
I have an XG1352 LC with a moome DVI I/P and I Scan HD+ scaler equiped with SDI.

Steve

You already have the DVI input card, but, you can only use a scaler that supports DVI/HDMI and HDCP.

I was afraid of that.
I need the next level up of scaler.
Sheeesh
Any other options?

I was afraid of that.
I need the next level up of scaler.
Sheeesh
Any other options?

Yes, is your Moome a card or external? If it is a card, you could perhaps use an HDFury or external Moome in the VGA port if it’s an external a Moome Card should work your XG should have 2 slots.

Mike

I have the same machine you have.
just got a PS3 60.
It's updating while I type this.
Tomorrow I'll be ordering a plain hdmi to dvi adapter from MonoPrice.
I'll report back what ever happens.
I have Moome's internal Dvi Card.

What is the easiset way for me to make the leap to HDDVD or bluray?
I have an XG1352 LC with a moome DVI I/P and I Scan HD+ scaler equiped with SDI.

Steve

The easiest way is to run the HD DVD player's HDMI output to your moome DVI. So, I'm not sure I understand the issue?

The easiest way is to run the HD DVD player's HDMI output to your moome DVI. So, I'm not sure I understand the issue?

Yes that would work. But if he want to retain his IScan w/ SDI he would need some type of switching or swap cables. I guess we don't know enough to answer his questions correctly. FIY unless he has the latest EDID moome updates it may not pass the HDCP test and will not work...Thats the boat I am in now.

Mike

Yes that would work. But if he want to retain his IScan w/ SDI he would need some type of switching or swap cables. I guess we don't know enough to answer his questions correctly. FIY unless he has the latest EDID moome updates it may not pass the HDCP test and will not work...Thats the boat I am in now.

Mike

I'm still lost. If moome is external, then you run the output to the iscan passthrough. If it is internal, then the HD DVD goes to it and the iScan is RGBHV out to the other input.

I'm still lost. If moome is external, then you run the output to the iscan passthrough. If it is internal, then the HD DVD goes to it and the iScan is RGBHV out to the other input.

Are we talking analog or digital here? I was talking digital or HDMI.

Mike

I have the same machine you have.
just got a PS3 60.
It's updating while I type this.
Tomorrow I'll be ordering a plain hdmi to dvi adapter from MonoPrice.
I'll report back what ever happens.
I have Moome's internal Dvi Card.

This sounds interesting.
Please report back
thanks.

The easiest way is to run the HD DVD player's HDMI output to your moome DVI. So, I'm not sure I understand the issue?

So you can run HDMI to DVI then without any additional boxes?

So you can run HDMI to DVI then without any additional boxes?

Yes you can, I am running a Samsung BR (HDMI out) and Directv H20 (again, HDMI output) into a radiance HDMI switcher (also HDMI out) into my XG which also uses Moome's internal DVI card.
HOWEVER!!! there is a big problem with HDMI to DVI, they use different color space spec's, and the HDMI to DVI connection is causing black crush problems.
Moome is working on a new input card for all the pj's and it'll be HDMI with some sort of Gamma correct ability. So HDMI all the way to the RGB conversion in the pj.

don't do HDMI to DVI(like Toshiba directly to moome card), it is busted with the Toshiba players and many combos of gear, so that is going to cause you problems for sure

the only way around that and using DVI inputs is to use a scaler like the VP50 which takes in directly the HDMI signal from the Toshiba and then outputs a correct DVI output(no crushed blacks etc.) to the moome DVI card, this is my setup with the 1352

your HD+ won't take in 1080i over component either, if it did you could output RGBHV which would also work with that RP56 SDI you bought from me ;)

the IScan HD+ may take in the Toshiba HDMI output via a HDMI to DVI cable on the DVI input and then output the correct DVI output, I use may because that setup could very well have issues

the HD+ does not passthru HD signals on the DVI port, it will scale them, apply adjustments etc. if you are using the DVI output on the HD+ to the moome card in the 1352, that would be your best bet to try

-Gary

don't do HDMI to DVI(like Toshiba directly to moome card), it is busted with the Toshiba players

HDMI -> DVI works just fine with my Toshiba HD-A2 -> Ophit. But maybe I misunderstand what you mean by "busted".

Hello folks

I use the hddvd output to a cs2 and then to the moome card with dvi

It works! the only problem is that i have no way to switch hdmis (since i have 2 hdmi devices now, the dvd and the hs settop box....)

In case you were wondering all this is connected to a marquee crt...

Good luck

Martin

HDMI -> DVI works just fine with my Toshiba HD-A2 -> Ophit. But maybe I misunderstand what you mean by "busted".

It depends on what version of Moome you have. Mine was purchased about a year ago. I have new EDID chip ordered but they will need to be soldered in. However after reading Kenny's post even when it works, meaning you will see a picture on the screen, it will not work correctly until the gamma correction circuits are in place. I think Gary has the right idea with the VP50 but it comes at a cost.

don't do HDMI to DVI(like Toshiba directly to moome card), it is busted with the Toshiba players and many combos of gear, so that is going to cause you problems for sure . . . .

-Gary
I run that exact configuration from my Toshiba HD-D1 to my Marquee Moome card with no problems.

Hello folks

I use the hddvd output to a cs2 and then to the moome card with dvi

It works! the only problem is that i have no way to switch hdmis (since i have 2 hdmi devices now, the dvd and the hs settop box....)

In case you were wondering all this is connected to a marquee crt...

Good luck

Martin

You can do that because the CS-2 has HDCP compliant DVI in and out. It can also scale to 1080p.

will a lumagen VisionHDQ Video Processor work as well for this application as the VP50?

the Toshiba using HDMI to DVI is hit or miss, glad to hear it is working for some

-Gary

Lumagen with DVI inputs and the Toshiba HD-DVD players are somewhat of a pain in the ass, read up on it on Lumagens forum

you have to say a really good prayer and beg it to get it to work and once it does, the connection may reset at anytime defaulting back to busted DVI colorspace problems, this process with the Lumagen is getting it to accept a component signal from the Toshiba via HDMI (using a HDMI to DVI connection which is normally RGB)

Lumagen may have did something to help this via firmware so check with them, I don't keep up with them much, just enough to help customers here and there

-Gary

the Toshiba using HDMI to DVI is hit or miss, glad to hear it is working for some

-Gary

Why shouldn't it worK? I use it both ways (HDMI to DVI and DVI to HDMI) all the time.

black crush Bruce

-Gary

Why shouldn't it worK? I use it both ways (HDMI to DVI and DVI to HDMI) all the time.

Trust me, Gary is right I have yet to get mine to work on Toshiba HDMI > Moome. If its working for you don't worry about it, and be happy. I just hope the EDID update does the trick for me. But I still will have the black crush problem.

Mike

black crush Bruce

-Gary


Oh.

If it's actually crushed (clipped) coming out of the player, you can't add the info back by sending it to a processor. However, if it's just a brightness setting issue, you can just have a separate setting on the pj for that input.

At least Lumagen VPs have option to "pretend" (by editable EDID) that they are HDMI devices, even though they are equipped physically with DVI connectors. This capability (especially with latest FW) lets them get proper signal from A1/XA1 (supposedly NOT with A2/XA2, but I have no hands-on experience).
I use Lumagen VisionHDP with A1 and Dtronics DA1 DVI-RGBHV converter with (IMO) excellent results. I can see BTB/WTW calibration info (like the one on DVE-HD) and on internal Lumagen patterns (after using 11point calibration with Spyder2/Calman Software), I can see 2 and 4 IRE fields.
In my opinion just the Lumagen's adjustable EDID and 11 point correction make it almost indispensable, and well worth the money (I paid $900.00 for used one from local dealer). I might add that it also can deinterlace and frame-rate convert 1080i/60 into 1080p/48. With small porches - also adjustable in the set-up, the flicker is minimal, and image very much film-like.
PJ I am using is modified M8000 (some optical filtering and MP older moded VIM and VNBs).

Kris

At least Lumagen VPs have option to "pretend" (by editable EDID) that they are HDMI devices, even though they are equipped physically with DVI connectors. This capability (especially with latest FW) lets them get proper signal from A1/XA1 (supposedly NOT with A2/XA2, but I have no hands-on experience).
I use Lumagen VisionHDP with A1 and Dtronics DA1 DVI-RGBHV converter with (IMO) excellent results. I can see BTB/WTW calibration info (like the one on DVE-HD) and on internal Lumagen patterns (after using 11point calibration with Spyder2/Calman Software), I can see 2 and 4 IRE fields.
In my opinion just the Lumagen's adjustable EDID and 11 point correction make it almost indispensable, and well worth the money (I paid $900.00 for used one from local dealer). I might add that it also can deinterlace and frame-rate convert 1080i/60 into 1080p/48. With small porches - also adjustable in the set-up, the flicker is minimal, and image very much film-like.
PJ I am using is modified M8000 (some optical filtering and MP older moded VIM and VNBs).

Kris

Since I've used HDMI>DVI and DVI>HDMI cables and/or adapters for many pieces of equipment that either have HDMI outputs that need to go in to equipment with only DVI inputs and vica versa, why does the Lumagen need anything special?

I know there are different bit strengths in the HDMI spec, but never having had a problem ....yet, do you know what the problem is with the Toshiba's HDMI output?

As far as I know, Toshiba, when concted to DVI device assumes it expects RGB PC level (0-255) video signal. Since most video displays (with exception of computer monitors, for which DVI was originally invented) require video level signal range and "component" color space, this creates problems with "black crush" and color reproduction issues.
When you use device like Lumagen, you can set it to "show" to Toshiba (when polled during handshake), that it needs "HDMI, 422 Component" signal (exact setting from HDP), which alleviates the problem.

Kris

What is the easiset way for me to make the leap to HDDVD or bluray?
I have an XG1352 LC with a moome DVI I/P and I Scan HD+ scaler equiped with SDI.

Steve
The easiest way is analog. I have never used HDMI yet with my 1352. I am kinda slow. It looks gooood as is with component. I don't watch SD DVD anymore so no point of upscaling which is not possible with component with the Toshiba.

As far as I know, Toshiba, when concted to DVI device assumes it expects RGB PC level (0-255) video signal. Since most video displays (with exception of computer monitors, for which DVI was originally invented) require video level signal range and "component" color space, this creates problems with "black crush" and color reproduction issues.
When you use device like Lumagen, you can set it to "show" to Toshiba (when polled during handshake), that it needs "HDMI, 422 Component" signal (exact setting from HDP), which alleviates the problem.

Kris

So you're saying that the Toshiba's output is polling its HDMI output and will set its colorspace based on that? I assumed that with an adapter or HDMI>DVI cable, it would "appear" as though, for instance a monitor with DVI input, was HDMI. :confused:

So you're saying that the Toshiba's output is polling its HDMI output and will set its colorspace based on that? I assumed that with an adapter or HDMI>DVI cable, it would "appear" as though, for instance a monitor with DVI input, was HDMI. :confused:

All devices do this. They are supposed to do this. Toshiba implemented this correctly. If a device "sees" a DVI connector, its supposed to send RGB because DVI by definition is RGB only (can't handle YCrCb).

The Lumgen can tell the device it wants YCrCr 422 as noted above, but not all source devices will listen. For instance, the Samsung BDP-1000 WILL NOT send YCrCb to a DVI connector no matter what.

That's exactly right! You have to keep in mind that both DVI and HDMI are "intelligent", and able to respond and adjust their parameters based on "other end" requirements. Physical connectors are irrelevant really. The whole thing sometimes blows in your face though, like in the case of some converters (I think HDFurry exhibits this behavior sometimes), where EDID info from converter artificially limits output resolution of source (presenting itself as limited to 1080i for instance), even though of course CRT would be able to handle it (maybe not resolve it, but it's entirely different matter)... Another example: Moome cards/boxes - in some cases require updated EDID chip to provide proper info to some players (sources).
There is general agreement, that DVI/HDMI standards should have mandated manual override (at least in service menus), making possible a lot of custom configurations. As it is, even high end equipment rarely sports those (Lumagen being one of exceptions).

Kris

HDMI and DVI still has some bugs to work out. It's something that's not being really talked about openly, but there's a lot of discussion on this otherwise.

The colorspace issue is real. And the only time I've not seen a problem with it is with what John is doing with the Fury, but it's a problem in everything else that uses that same chip.

The IRE window (0 or 15) is another issue, but for the most part, it's being dealt with with gamma correction, but it's there and it's a problem for some of us, who don't want to sacrifice parts of the IRE range for a low end bump with a gamma fix.

And the chips auto handshaking is not doing what it's supposed to as of yet.

Hopefully, these issues will be solved in Moome's latest version. And maybe then Myself Doug and a few others can relax, and enjoy..

Hopefully, these issues will be solved in Moome's latest version. And maybe then Myself Doug and a few others can relax, and enjoy..

Snicker...I seriously doubt it! :p

The colorspace issue is real. And the only time I've not seen a problem with it is with what John is doing with the Fury, but it's a problem in everything else that uses that same chip.

The IRE window (0 or 15) is another issue, but for the most part, it's being dealt with with gamma correction, but it's there and it's a problem for some of us, who don't want to sacrifice parts of the IRE range for a low end bump with a gamma fix.


Can you make Gamma adjustments on an HTPC with the right Video Driver?

And the chips auto handshaking is not doing what it's supposed to as of yet.

Hopefully, these issues will be solved in Moome's latest version.

Yes, That is a real issue, it seems to even be true with some big players in the industry.

Mike

:mad: Could not get the PS3 to talk with moome's xg internal DVI card.
So, I'm doing 1080i analogue and it looks amazing.
I'll just have to wait until I get moome's next hdmi card.
Hopefully it won't be to long now.

:mad: Could not get the PS3 to talk with moome's xg internal DVI card.
So, I'm doing 1080i analogue and it looks amazing.
I'll just have to wait until I get moome's next hdmi card.
Hopefully it won't be to long now.

When did you get your Moome card. An EDID update (Chip Replacement) may fix it.

Mike

Lumagen with DVI inputs and the Toshiba HD-DVD players are somewhat of a pain in the ass, read up on it on Lumagens forum

you have to say a really good prayer and beg it to get it to work and once it does, the connection may reset at anytime defaulting back to busted DVI colorspace problems, this process with the Lumagen is getting it to accept a component signal from the Toshiba via HDMI (using a HDMI to DVI connection which is normally RGB)

Lumagen may have did something to help this via firmware so check with them, I don't keep up with them much, just enough to help customers here and there

-Gary

Gary,

I have experience with and am using myself Lumagen Scalers (HDP, HDP Pro, HDQ) with first and second generation Toshiba HD-DVD players since last June.

I always got the HDMI to DVI connection to work and what is more important always got the color space right as does everybody else I know.

I will admit that a few adjustments have to be made to get there but after that everything works fine - your customers with Lumagen scalers probably are more the plug and play kind of guys ;)

Oliver

Oliver,

how did you set-up G2 Toshiba to accomplish it? I have no personal experience with those, since I use A1 (with no problems at all), but I read on HD-DVD Forum that there supposedly are some issues with G2 players and Lumagen? In fact it sort of put me off the idea of getting one so far, even though I thought about getting XA2 (when proper - direct 24fps will be implemented),

Kris

Hi Mike
I think it was early 2006. Can't remember exactly but it was from the last batch of xg internals.
Is it easy to do the "Chip Replacement"
Thanks

P.S. I was under the impression that that last batch had the updated chip? :confused:

I connected myToshiba xa2 to an nec 1351 with the hd fury to hdmi to dvi converter to extron switcher and the picture is stunning. When I try to change the resolution to 1080p the projecter does not recognise it as a valid signal. Is this an hdmi-hd fury issue? Is 1080p much better than 1080i? Maybe it is not even worth the effort.

Hi Mike
I think it was early 2006. Can't remember exactly but it was from the last batch of xg internals.
P.S. I was under the impression that that last batch had the updated chip? :confused:

Yours might be ok....Mine was round mid-06. My question is, do you have to do updates as as new equipment comes out?....If so that is really a bummer/poor design. Im not sure if anyone is running 1080p on a moome or HD-Fury. I think I may start a thread asking this question.


Is it easy to do the "Chip Replacement"
Well as it happens I started a new job at low volume printed circuit board manufacture. So I will just have them do a little "government job" to replace the chip as soon as get them. I think I may have a socket installed just in case we need to change it again.

BTW Moome is really good about taking care of this.... He is only charging shipping for the upgrade less than $4.00.

I emailed moome - waiting to hear back.
good idea to start a thread specific to dvi.
I read the hdmi cards work just fine.

I have the original moome external box and it works with the PS3/ Toshiba A1/ Samsung BD1200 no problem via
DVI with an HDMI adapter.
( At least with 1080i )

Purchased Jan 2006/ no updated EDID so far.

I have that external as well - I'm going to give it a try.

Yes - original external works with PS3 and it will pass 1080P.

Moome is sending me a new EDID chip.
Hope that'll fix the internal.

Although I've owned my NEC XG1352LC for almost seven years, I'm just now thinking about using it with an HD DVD player. Although I've been reading threads about the Moome's DVI card for the projector, I know nothing about the card. Can someone advise where the card can be purchased, how much it costs and what is involved with it's installation and use? Thanks for the information.

you want to get the new hdmi cards.

read the "Who wants a moome 10-bit HDMI input card for the XG ?"

thread and follow the links to curt's site - there you'll get the info you need.

Thanks Bachiano.