I was reading this thread over at highdefdigest and there are first hand reports from people living over there that Blu Ray is pushed VERY hard and a lot of places do not even carry HD DVD software of hardware.

It is an interesting thread if you feel like reading something. heres the link.

link (http://forums.highdefdigest.com/showthread.php?t=12638)

Not really - both are essentially invisible compared to DVD. I'd say the war will be decided by who manages to get cheap players out first (<$150), at which point we'll actually see serious sales, not the tiny piddling amounts we have at the moment.

Not really - both are essentially invisible compared to DVD. I'd say the war will be decided by who manages to get cheap players out first (<$150), at which point we'll actually see serious sales, not the tiny piddling amounts we have at the moment.

I think we all know DVD is king so it's nothing more than stating the obvious. I am talking in comparison to HD DVD...but I have a feeling you already knew that. However, I will change the thread title in order not to "confuse" anyone else :rolleyes:

Not really - both are essentially invisible compared to DVD. I'd say the war will be decided by who manages to get cheap players out first (<$150), at which point we'll actually see serious sales, not the tiny piddling amounts we have at the moment.

Shocking. After one year Blu-Ray should be selling more titles than standard dvd. :rolleyes:

I remember all the doubting Thomas' saying that dvd would never sell more than its VHS counterpart. It took years but it did happen.

I love the U.K BD coz of their case. It's rock solid and the orders are shipped within a week.

hi folks,

long time lurker.. just registered today.. definetly on the high street blue ray is more visible than HD DVD in the uk/ireland.. I'm in dublin and even my local dvd rental has blue ray to rent.. quite a few actually whereas there are no hd dvd at all.

in the two shops where you can buy both formats blue ray has about 2/3rds shelf space in comparison to hd dvd..

cheers,
mick

Shocking. After one year Blu-Ray should be selling more titles than standard dvd. :rolleyes:

I remember all the doubting Thomas' saying that dvd would never sell more than its VHS counterpart. It took years but it did happen.

It's the latest HD-DVD rallying cry..... :cool:

It's the latest HD-DVD rallying cry..... :cool:

And they sure spend a lot of time in the Blu-Ray forum don't they.

We are witnessing a huge dose of sour grapes by HD-DVDers.

I bought into HD-DVD also when it first came out. But it didn't take long before I could see the writing on the wall and I moved on. I knew it was a risk when I bought it. My loss, oh well. I wasn't going to start wishing the "other" format would fail just because HD-DVD failed to gain studio support.

And they sure spend a lot of time in the Blu-Ray forum don't they.

We are witnessing a huge dose of sour grapes by HD-DVDers.

I bought into HD-DVD also when it first came out. But it didn't take long before I could see the writing on the wall and I moved on. I knew it was a risk when I bought it. My loss, oh well. I wasn't going to start wishing the "other" format would fail just because HD-DVD failed to gain studio support.

The thing is....I have been waiting over a year to get into to a HD format and I held off for so long because the HD DVD fans kept saying "the studios will switch and go where the money is."

After a year and still no studios have switched...if anything, BD just kepts gaining support. I stopped torturing myself waiting on studios to switch and just went with blu....glad I did.

The thing is....I have been waiting over a year to get into to a HD format and I held off for so long because the HD DVD fans kept saying "the studios will switch and go where the money is."

Unfortunatly there was no "money". There claim boils down to "HD DVD has sold more discs" which was true until boxing day when Blu-ray overtook them.

I'd say the war will be decided by who manages to get cheap players out first

Still holding on to that? As we've seen lowering prices has only a small effect because people don't want to buy into a flawed format. How many HDTV owners are too poor to afford a $300 player but can afford a HDTV? There aren't going to be many and when they do buy a $175 player they're not going to buy hundreds of discs either. The guys with the collections are happy to buy a $300/400 player.

Here we go again. Can't we just avoid who is going to be the winner? I have both, and love both of them. Seriously. I know that it's not a cheap hobby, but why are we all here in the first place? We all spend too much (at least according to our spouses!) on this stuff. You can get a hd-dvd player from Amazon for $238 now. Combine that with $449 for a bdp-s300 and for less than $700, you're in like flynn.

Best of both worlds. Some sit there and constantly fret, well, if I buy HD-DVD and it fails, I'll have a useless player. Really? How so? It is an excellent upscaling player for $238, and as an example, I have approx. 50 HD-DVD's. When and if HD-DVD fails and I have, let's say, 100 HD-DVD's, that is 100 hd movies I will never have to buy on Blu-Ray.

This taking sides stuff is bordering on immaturity. Who cares who wins in the end? They both do the same codecs, and as of now, both look equally as good. :rolleyes:

This taking sides stuff is bordering on immaturity. Who cares who wins in the end? They both do the same codecs, and as of now, both look equally as good. :rolleyes:

Immaturity? Try logic. People do not want multiple players hooked up to their tv sets. There are already receivers, cable boxes, sometimes amps, cd players. Why should people have to own two pieces of hardware to play movies in hi-def? They shouldn't and most won't.

It's not immaturity it is common sense. Most people will not invest in two different formats. Universal is the last hold out on Blu-Ray and there is no way they will continue that in 2008. Once that happens there is absolutely no reason for HD-DVD to exist. None.

After a year and still no studios have switched...if anything, BD just kepts gaining support. I stopped torturing myself waiting on studios to switch and just went with blu....glad I did.

Good choice. You'll enjoy the most movies by going Blu-Ray. You can count on Universal going neutral in 2008.

the battle in EU is pretty much over

Rwduke, I said it was bordering on it. I meant all the constant bickering on which one is best for whatever reason. But you are wrong on one thing. Since Paramont and Warner bros (looks like this is ending though) have put out their HD-DVD's with better audio, I'll pick the HD-DVD version first.

I didn't know that AV enthusiasts really were that concerned that they have 1 more piece of equipment. Wow, guess I was seriously mistaken.

Like I said, I love both of them. You are coming at me like I just insulted Blu Ray owners. I have a PS3 and Pioneer HD-94.

Do you own an HD-DVD player? :rolleyes:

the battle in EU is pretty much over

Based on the opinion of one person talking to a friend? Did you see the latest sales numbers in standalone players showing HD DVD with 70%+?

Things are just getting started...

Sweden: Both formats are more or less unknown here, but the biggest film store in Stockholm (Åhléns) does have Blu-Ray but no HD-DVD so far. I've also seen a couple of ads in the paper where Blu-Ray discs have been shown, but no HD-DVD. I haven't really looked for neither format so there might have been HD-DVD ads I've missed.

The online sites I'm ordering from have both, and no perferential treatment for either format as far as I've seen.

IMHO the biggest hurdle for HD-DVD here is probably the fact that only Toshiba sell standalone players, and they are not really considered a CE company here. To gather traction I really think HD-DVD need a few more well-known CE companies to start selling players.

But all in all, both formats are pretty invisible.

Immaturity? Try logic. People do not want multiple players hooked up to their tv sets. There are already receivers, cable boxes, sometimes amps, cd players. Why should people have to own two pieces of hardware to play movies in hi-def? They shouldn't and most won't.

It's not immaturity it is common sense. Most people will not invest in two different formats. Universal is the last hold out on Blu-Ray and there is no way they will continue that in 2008. Once that happens there is absolutely no reason for HD-DVD to exist. None.

So true, that is why i want Blu Ray to be the only format not because i hate HD DVD , love sony. Just because i i can play game, watch HD ,upscale SD DVD, listen mp3/CD, picture slide show... oh and i can surf web too if i want it.

So true, that is why i want Blu Ray to be the only format not because i hate HD DVD , love sony. Just because i i can play game, watch HD ,upscale SD DVD, listen mp3/CD, picture slide show... oh and i can surf web too if i want it.

The question though, should everyone pay for all of those features if they don't want them? The way the PS3 was released it was either you're buying blu-ray whether you want it or not. It pissed off a lot of gamers.

Now don't get me wrong, I love my two PS3's however it was a bold statement to force so much functionality to such a wide user base.

I highly recommend U.K Blu-rays coz of the following reasons.

1. U.K sites are very prompt when it comes to shipping. They don't get lost unlike USPS.
2. Media is gold coated and is not flimsy
3. Rock solid casing

I remember all the doubting Thomas' saying that dvd would never sell more than its VHS counterpart. It took years but it did happen.

Amen! I've been saying that all along. :)

The thing is....I have been waiting over a year to get into to a HD format and I held off for so long because the HD DVD fans kept saying "the studios will switch and go where the money is."

After a year and still no studios have switched...if anything, BD just kepts gaining support. I stopped torturing myself waiting on studios to switch and just went with blu....glad I did.

I remember getting caught up in all the "more studio support for HD DVD will come with sales" hoopla. Lesson learned. The industry as a whole decided on Blu-ray before either format was launched. And I'm alright with that. I got a PS3 for $499 that is an amazing Blu-ray player and the movies are priced quite reasonably IMO. I certainly wasn't able to get DVDs for as low as $18 a year into that format's launch. I've been getting prices that low on BD for several months already. Thank you Amazon! :cool:

Amen! I've been saying that all along. :)



I remember getting caught up in all the "more studio support for HD DVD will come with sales" hoopla. Lesson learned. The industry as a whole decided on Blu-ray before either format was launched. And I'm alright with that. I got a PS3 for $499 that is an amazing Blu-ray player and the movies are priced quite reasonably IMO. I certainly wasn't able to get DVDs for as low as $18 a year into that format's launch. I've been getting prices that low on BD for several months already. Thank you Amazon! :cool:


I was buying new DVD's three months after DVD came out for $19.99 a piece through dvdexpress (I always wonder what happened to that website, I bought over 100 DVD's from them and still have a ton of the post-it notes they used to put in every shipment)...

And they sure spend a lot of time in the Blu-Ray forum don't they.

We are witnessing a huge dose of sour grapes by HD-DVDers.

I bought into HD-DVD also when it first came out. But it didn't take long before I could see the writing on the wall and I moved on. I knew it was a risk when I bought it. My loss, oh well. I wasn't going to start wishing the "other" format would fail just because HD-DVD failed to gain studio support.
Buying either HD format is a risk, unless you know something we don't..

Not bad. That's the cheapest I could find as well for DVDs back then. Best Buy had the Warner and MGM titles for that price. Every other studio's discs were priced higher. So yeah even if I ignore the 10% discount Amazon is giving, the cheapest BDs I get cost $19.95 and are from Warner, Paramount, and Sony. The thing is I don't recall any discounts at all on DVDs in the beginning. IIRC it wasn't until 1999 that Reel.com had the steal prices of $14.99 and less on some titles.
So now studios MUST support BR, cause they are backing it since last yr?? Bottom line is Money. If HD DVD goes ablaze more then likely the studios will support both, or maybe just HD DVD.. I hope both formats survive.. We can live with both formats.. I don't see why there must only be one.. There are pro/con with both technologies. We shouldn't have to choose one over the other..

Immaturity? Try logic. People do not want multiple players hooked up to their tv sets. There are already receivers, cable boxes, sometimes amps, cd players. Why should people have to own two pieces of hardware to play movies in hi-def? They shouldn't and most won't.

It's not immaturity it is common sense. Most people will not invest in two different formats. Universal is the last hold out on Blu-Ray and there is no way they will continue that in 2008. Once that happens there is absolutely no reason for HD-DVD to exist. None.

I think one format only is a good idea, but people are tacking on emotional baggage into the mix and some fans of each format go as far as trolling in the "other" forum. And that's lame.

So now studios MUST support BR, cause they are backing it since last yr?? Bottom line is Money. If HD DVD goes ablaze more then likely the studios will support both, or maybe just HD DVD.. I hope both formats survive.. We can live with both formats.. I don't see why there must only be one.. There are pro/con with both technologies. We shouldn't have to choose one over the other..

The problem is that if the HD discs remain a niche, I think that niche is a more viable market in the long term if there is only one format that has to be supported. I personally don't want to buy multiple players for each display, and so far, dual format players have been prohibitively priced. Authoring for both formats doesn't make much economic sense. Retailers shouldn't have to stock three different formats of the same movie. All these factors limit the number of titles that would make it to the market if there are two HD disc formats for too long.

I'm not sure if HD discs will shed their niche status unless there is a single format that the market & industry has chosen.

I didn't know that AV enthusiasts really were that concerned that they have 1 more piece of equipment. Wow, guess I was seriously mistaken.

Some of us AV enthusiasts are more concerned with Hi-Def becoming accepted by the mass market. While most AV enthusiasts will put up with buying hardware for 2 formats the general public will not. As a movie lover it is important to me that one hi-def format win this war so people sitting on the sideline will jump in. Then we will see the huge releases like Spielberg and Star Wars.

At this point HD-DVD is just a thorn in the side of Hi-Def, slowing mass acceptance. Toshiba just hasn't accepted their failure yet. One year later and they are having to give their players away to keep the format alive.

Do you own an HD-DVD player? :rolleyes:

Yawn. Yes, for now. But I am no longer purchasing titles in HD DVD, not even from Universal. I'll wait for Blu-Ray releases.

I think one format only is a good idea, but people are tacking on emotional baggage into the mix and some fans of each format go as far as trolling in the "other" forum. And that's lame.

Agreed. I don't even visit the HD DVD forum anymore. I have no interest in the format. But on this Blu-Ray forum I constantly see HD DVD proponents thread crapping on all positive Blu-Ray news. Their desperation is getting annoying. We have to read through the same garbage from them on every Blu-Ray thread. If HD DVD is so successful then why are they constantly on the Blu-Ray forum trolling? Enough is enough already.

Not really - both are essentially invisible compared to DVD. I'd say the war will be decided by who manages to get cheap players out first (<$150), at which point we'll actually see serious sales, not the tiny piddling amounts we have at the moment.

I doubt it. It's not like a $299 or $250 stand-alone HD-DVD player has drastically improved that format's position.

I think the bigger challenge here is to overcome the "good enough" perception that DVD has. DVD -> HDDVD/BD is not the same effect in many people's eyes as going from VHS to DVD in terms of picture and audio quality. So-called "upconverting" dvd players don't help either as their marketing speak undermines to some degree the efforts of HD-DVD and BD.

Well, we can obviously see your preference Rwduke. I have no preference either way right now. I like how Blu has greater studio support. But I like the fact that HD-DVD has had it's act together since day one with internet connectivity and how the specs were finalized to a much greater extent than Blu-Ray. Profile 1.0, profile 1.1, 2.0.

I mean, come on. To some, it's no big deal, to others, it is.

There are things that I appreciate HD-DVD for. There are other things I appreciate Blu-Ray for. That's why, unfortunately, I do have both. I couldn't have just one, don't want to miss out on any movies in HD, because I've been waiting for a long time, like many others here, for HD disks.

What I think is immature, yes, there is that word again, is for some out there to put down a format just because they prefer the other. Why do avs'ers get so emotional over it? Which ever side wins, we are all still going to have great looking 1080p video and lossless audio.

That's why I really don't care who wins... why does everyone else so much?

Agreed. I don't even visit the HD DVD forum anymore. I have no interest in the format. But on this Blu-Ray forum I constantly see HD DVD proponents thread crapping on all positive Blu-Ray news. Their desperation is getting annoying. We have to read through the same garbage from them on every Blu-Ray thread. If HD DVD is so successful then why are they constantly on the Blu-Ray forum trolling? Enough is enough already.
I own both formats and visit both forums. Take a look in the HD DVD forum...you'll find Bluray zealots doing the same thing. :rolleyes:

I own both formats and visit both forums. Take a look in the HD DVD forum...you'll find Bluray zealots doing the same thing. :rolleyes:

Like I said I don't spend any time there. But I do come here for Blu-Ray news and information and get sick of reading all the HD-DVD thread crapping here.

I think most people are tired of the trolling going on here. I'm sure it is annoying for HD-DVD if this happening on that forum as well.

I have no desire to look in the HD-DVD forum.

There is a difference between thread crapping and calling things what they are. I've done the same on HD-DVD threads I don't believe are accurate. Such as calling it when HD-DVD was actually doing better in sales than Blu-Ray, then not releasing much the first half of this year. I'm an equal opportunity poster.

Well, we can obviously see your preference Rwduke. I have no preference either way right now. I like how Blu has greater studio support. But I like the fact that HD-DVD has had it's act together since day one with internet connectivity and how the specs were finalized to a much greater extent than Blu-Ray. Profile 1.0, profile 1.1, 2.0.

I mean, come on. To some, it's no big deal, to others, it is.




Not to take anything away from HD-DVD regarding finalized specs from the beginning, but I would imagine it was MUCH easier to accomplish this since Toshiba is the only one manufacturing the players compared to several different companies on the Blu-Ray side of things. When all is said and done, and Blu-Ray specs are considered 'finalized', I prefer the option of buying a player from a variety of different companies to only one. Competition is always a good thing. (not counting the cheap Chinese HD-DVD or Blu-Ray players that are supposedly coming down the line as I would never buy into a technology like this and cheap out on the hardware. Doesn't make sense imo especially if I am going to spend several $K on a HDTV) Just my opinion though.


-Z

Shocking. After one year Blu-Ray should be selling more titles than standard dvd. :rolleyes:
.

Hehe, chill. Wasn't being deliberately sarcastic, was making a serious point. Sales will and continue to be tiny while the hardware is expensive - most people simply don't see the benefit of replacing kit at current prices. However, make the boxes cheap and people will buy them, then current DVD sales will convert into HDDVD/Bluray sales.

For the record, I have a bluray burner and USB HDDVD drive in my HTPC, so I couldn't care less which "wins" (although I find the whole thing pretty tedious). Personally my suspicion is cheap dualformat players will end the whole thing before it's really begun.

Not to take anything away from HD-DVD regarding finalized specs from the beginning, but I would imagine it was MUCH easier to accomplish this since Toshiba is the only one manufacturing the players compared to several different companies on the Blu-Ray side of things.

And HD-DVD finalized??? The spec may have been finalized but the hardware sure wasn't. They rushed buggy, incomplete units out the door just to be the first to market. Buyers be damned. Who cares if the discs won't actually play all the way through, at least we were first to market. We'll take your thousand dollars though.

Toshiba screwed early adopters for their own greedy reasons. And they still ended up losing.

Blu-Ray spec may not have been completed but my player sure plays every Blu-Ray disc I've ever purchased without locking up, dropping out, having audio sync issues and so forth.

And HD-DVD finalized??? The spec may have been finalized but the hardware sure wasn't. They rushed buggy, incomplete units out the door just to be the first to market. Buyers be damned. Who cares if the discs won't actually play all the way through, at least we were first to market. We'll take your thousand dollars though.

Toshiba screwed early adopters for their own greedy reasons. And they still ended up losing.

Blu-Ray spec may not have been completed but my player sure plays every Blu-Ray disc I've ever purchased without locking up, dropping out, having audio sync issues and so forth.

Exactly why I sold the 24 hd dvd's I had purchased after buying two ridiculously buggy hd dvd players.
Finalized is not quite the word that comes to mind.

Yeah, Rwduke, and the Samsung bdp-1000 was fantastic with that filter turned on and the 1080p to 1080i to 1080p output. I had one. Then, what about Sony's flawless BDP-S1. I had that one too. Wow. See, all you're about is HD-DVD is crap and Blu-Ray is fantastic. At least my opinion is balanced. You're just filling the fanboy quota and not even giving HD-DVD any props at all. Both early players had their problems. I think I'm at least honest about BOTH HD-DVD and Blu-Ray's strengths and weaknesses. You're not.

Yeah, Rwduke, and the Samsung bdp-1000 was fantastic with that filter turned on and the 1080p to 1080i to 1080p output. I had one. Then, what about Sony's flawless BDP-S1. I had that one too. Wow. See, all you're about is HD-DVD is crap and Blu-Ray is fantastic. At least my opinion is balanced. You're just filling the fanboy quota and not even giving HD-DVD any props at all. Both early players had their problems. I think I'm at least honest about BOTH HD-DVD and Blu-Ray's strengths and weaknesses. You're not.

I was factual about my experience with hi-def. The Toshiba X-A1 that I purchased for almost a thousand dollars was a total piece of garbage that should have never been released. The Panasonic BD DMP-BD10 blu-ray player that I purchased has never failed to play a disc flawlessly all the way through.

You can try to spin this as fanaticism and fan-boy ranting all you want. But the fact remains that this is the truth. My opinion is balanced as I own both formats and this is my actual experience with both formats.

You're talking of experience with one player. My A2 works flawlessly. If I judged the Blu-Ray format on the Samsung 1000 or the Sony BDP-S1, I wouldn't have it. But I understood it that it was the PLAYER, not the format in general.

Now I have the PS3 and the Pioneer BDP-94HD. Both are great players, with no problems. But you don't see me judging blu-ray to be crap because of a couple of faulty players.

In fact, most of the disks I've purchased lately have been Blu-Ray. So, I'm not biased against a format one way or another.

You're talking of experience with one player. My A2 works flawlessly. If I judged the Blu-Ray format on the Samsung 1000 or the Sony BDP-S1, I wouldn't have it. But I understood it that it was the PLAYER, not the format in general.

But you don't see me judging blu-ray to be crap because of a couple of faulty players.

More than just that one player was faulty. All you have to do is read this forum.

HD-DVD has been far more unstable than Blu-Ray.

Then we get back to the other reasons that Blu-Ray is superior, such as studio support, manufacturer support and there is really no reason to waste money on an HD-DVD player at all. Universal cannot deny the blu-ray surge anymore than you can.

Every bit of news for the last few months has been in favor of blu-ray. From rental stores like Blockbuster, to studios such as Anchor Bay, Razor Digital to hardware manufactures such as Denon. If you refuse to see that HD-DVD is getting squashed then perhaps it is you that should take the fanboy glasses off. From my experience I would like to warn people not to waste their money on a dying format.

My opinion is as valid as yours and and no less "balanced".

Just a reminder, this is the blu-ray forum.

The Blu-Ray group have implemented a very effective strategy in the UK.

They got Blockbusters to support Blu-Ray exclusively from day 1, no HD-DVD rental titles at all.

Blockbuster is the no 1 UK rental chain by a long margin.

The two big retail chains, HMV & Virgin are giving Blu-Ray and HD-DVD equal store space in the dozen or so stores I have visited.

The big CE chains, Curry's & Comet give Blu-Ray hardware more retail space because of the Manufacture's sponsored displays from Samsung, Panasonic, etc.

Mainstream media seems pretty ignorant of the HD format war with very few articles making the papers on a regular basis.

The Playstation 3 factor is probably even greater in the UK than in the US.

The only downside is that most HD-DVD and Blu-Ray early adopters will be making most of their purchases from the US, to take advantage of lower prices and earlier release dates. Both formats will struggle due to this.

I am torn where to buy my Blu-Ray discs, buy US and get discs early and for a lot less money or wait for the UK release and pay more, but support the format.

Not really - both are essentially invisible compared to DVD.

In other news: Sky blue; water wet. Why don't you post about those breaking stories as well?

In other news: Sky blue; water wet. Why don't you post about those breaking stories as well?

ha, ha
I think Rob Enderle will challenge you on those stories though. He has several reasons for you why water is actually dry.

You know, Rwduke, you’re right. Oh, and of course, you didn’t even address the mention of the Samsung bdp1000 issues that EVERY single player had. The first generation HD-DVD player had their share of quirks. Mine didn’t have many issues. Why don’t or can’t you even acknowledge any of the problems that I pointed out with with Blu-Ray players? Most Blu Ray supporters even will admit to that.

Like I said many times, which you won’t acknowledge, BOTH format’s players have had their share of problems. I can even admit that. My A2 is flawless in its playback though.

I’ve also said that I support BOTH (that word again) formats and have 2 Blu-Ray players. But I’m not so shortsighted as to ignore issues on one format over the other. They both have their strengths and weaknesses. I’ve also said that I’ve called out HD-DVD on some things I believe was stupid of the format on the HD-DVD forum side.

HD-DVD getting squashed? Oh come on. Blu Ray sold more than HD-DVD over the first ¼ of this year because of a lack of HD-DVD releases. Has Blu Ray got some momentum now? Sure they do. In fact, I have been telling my friends that right now I’m thinking Blu-Ray might win this thing, if either of them “win” so to speak.

I said that in my opinion, you are not “balanced” because you have nothing but negative things to say about HD-DVD. Most Blu-Ray supporters would at least admit to some advantages that HD-DVD has.

I know that this is a blu-ray forum, I have 2, remember?

You know, Rwduke, you’re right. Oh, and of course, you didn’t even address the mention of the Samsung bdp1000 issues that EVERY single player had. The first generation HD-DVD player had their share of quirks. Mine didn’t have many issues. Why don’t or can’t you even acknowledge any of the problems that I pointed out with with Blu-Ray players?

I didn't own a Samsung or a Sony so I can't speak about those from experience. If you say every single unit had problems I cannot dispute you because I didn't own either player. What do you want from me? I've been speaking about my experience with both formats which would include a first gen player from both. The Toshiba Xa1 was a piece of junk for one thousand dollars and the Panasonic has worked like a charm on every single disc. That is MY, do you get that, MY experience with both formats.


Like I said many times, which you won’t acknowledge, BOTH format’s players have had their share of problems. I can even admit that. My A2 is flawless in its playback though.

You're hellbent on me saying your A2 is flawless. I believe you. Congratulations, you had much better luck than me with Toshiba and you even spent less money. Glad they got it together on their 2nd gen player. But they screwed first gen buyers by releasing junk. And they were the only game in town. For Blu-Ray I read reviews and picked the Panasonic. A true benefit of having more than one manufacturer making players.


I’ve also said that I support BOTH (that word again) formats and have 2 Blu-Ray players. But I’m not so shortsighted as to ignore issues on one format over the other. They both have their strengths and weaknesses. I’ve also said that I’ve called out HD-DVD on some things I believe was stupid of the format on the HD-DVD forum side.

I've supported both as well but you basically called me a fanboy and acted like my opinion doesn't count. Only yours. I was responding in kind.


HD-DVD getting squashed? Oh come on. Blu Ray sold more than HD-DVD over the first ¼ of this year because of a lack of HD-DVD releases. Has Blu Ray got some momentum now? Sure they do. In fact, I have been telling my friends that right now I’m thinking Blu-Ray might win this thing, if either of them “win” so to speak.

Yes, squashed. By the end of this year I believe HD-DVD will be buried.


I said that in my opinion, you are not “balanced” because you have nothing but negative things to say about HD-DVD. Most Blu-Ray supporters would at least admit to some advantages that HD-DVD has.

That's because I know that HD-DVD has lost and is now just slowing acceptance. Did you happen to read Bill Hunt's article today that Star Wars may never be released on Hi-Def disc if a winner does not emerge soon? Can you not see the damage that this war is causing? And surely you can "acknowledge" that HD-DVD doesn't have a chance of winning. The time for HD-DVD to bow out has come.

There is no advantage to slowing adoption of hi-def discs. So you will not hear me praising anything about HD-DVD at this point. Will they bow out gracefully? I doubt it.

And this is why I think you are not balanced, as your limited exposure to HD-DVD. You're judging all players on your XA1. What if I were to judge all Blu Ray playes on the Samsung? Or the Sony? That is 2 of them. The sony BDP-S1 had all kinds of issues that are addressed here.

My A1 had a few glitches here and there, but 99% of the time, played all movies right through. I know not everyone here had that experience, but more did than did not.

I'm not "hellbent" on saying my A2 is flawless, it hasn't locked up on me once, and I got the first shipment of them last November, I believe

I take issue with what you have posted because of you judging all players on a bad luck XA1.

That being said, do I like this format war? No, not really. I have both, so it really doesn't matter so much to me who wins. But if someone on the HD-DVD side was bashing Blu-Ray just because of a bad player that they owned, I'd tell them the same thing, look farther than just one player.

I was in best buy this weeknend helping a freind negotiate a lower price on an A2. (He has a ps3 for Blu-Ray already) While I was there, 2 more A2's went out the door. To say that it's all over with for HD-DVD, I think not, regarless of all of us wanting the war over so that the "masses" will no longer be confused, and high def can move on...

Star Wars? Come on. It's Lucas, what do you expect? His excuse for not releasing SW on DVD was that he wanted mass adoption b4 relesing it. Look how long that took. That's just another typical excuse from him.

The Blu-Ray group have implemented a very effective strategy in the UK.

They got Blockbusters to support Blu-Ray exclusively from day 1, no HD-DVD rental titles at all.

Blockbuster is the no 1 UK rental chain by a long margin.

The two big retail chains, HMV & Virgin are giving Blu-Ray and HD-DVD equal store space in the dozen or so stores I have visited.

The big CE chains, Curry's & Comet give Blu-Ray hardware more retail space because of the Manufacture's sponsored displays from Samsung, Panasonic, etc.

Mainstream media seems pretty ignorant of the HD format war with very few articles making the papers on a regular basis.

The Playstation 3 factor is probably even greater in the UK than in the US.

The only downside is that most HD-DVD and Blu-Ray early adopters will be making most of their purchases from the US, to take advantage of lower prices and earlier release dates. Both formats will struggle due to this.

I am torn where to buy my Blu-Ray discs, buy US and get discs early and for a lot less money or wait for the UK release and pay more, but support the format.

Right.

Do you actually live in the UK? Because I do I don't see any of the above taking place

NEITHER format has much of a foothold here. BR indeed has a larger selection but thats because there have been fewer HDDVD releases here. More are coming but like anything technology related in the UK, we are behind

Several big films however are appearing on HDDVD over here and not on BR due to rights issues (the prestige / terminator 2 / total recall etc)

Plus given the high prices of both disks (£25-29 EACH. Thats about $45-55) in places like HMV and Virgin most people tend to buy online or import (HMV in particular is on shaky ground. Several large media sellers have shut in recent years due to falling sales)

The big electronic sellers in my area appear to show the complete opposite of what you describe. Comet, Currys, even my local Asda's (part of the walmart group) give no prefrence to either format. They both have equal space and advertising (one local comet though has nothing but HDDVD on display)

The PS3 factor is null and void. The wii and 360 have far more floor presence than the PS3 in games shops and the big chains here. The PS3 is an expensive joke to many here that is still struggling to move.

Finally I agree with you over HD barely registering here. Our most popular TV service DTT (or freeview) which is set to replace our current analogue system is SD res only (but thankfully in 16:9). HD has launched on satellite and cable but as pay TV service (and we Brits hate paying for TV ;) )

as a uk resident i'm intrigued to hear what large media sellers u think have shut over the last few years. please don't throw fopp at me: they were a bargain basement chain with no history and no interest in highdef.

the virgins and hmvs (by far the largest sellers of dvds in uk highstreets) in bristol, birmingham, cheltenham, watford, and gloucester are all displaying more bd than hd dvd. the percentage has shifted over the last few months, with equal shelf space giving way to a 75-80% split in bd's favour. it's probably not a coincidence that the ps3 covers this same timeframe...

And this is why I think you are not balanced, as your limited exposure to HD-DVD. You're judging all players on your XA1. What if I were to judge all Blu Ray playes on the Samsung? Or the Sony? That is 2 of them. The sony BDP-S1 had all kinds of issues that are addressed here.


I've explained myself to nth degree. I frankly don't care whether you think I'm balanced or biased. I could tell you all day long the reasons I prefer Blu-Ray but that won't be good enough for you. You just want to argue.


I take issue with what you have posted because of you judging all players on a bad luck XA1.

Now you're just making stuff up. I did not judge all players. I repeat, I said based on MY experience with the players I have owned. I take issue with Toshiba rushing absolute garbage hardware out the door to beat Blu-Ray to market. I bought a flag ship player for a grand and it is junk. I will repeat, they screwed us for their own purposes. If that happened to people who were not happy with the first gen Sony and Samsung I don't blame them for being upset either. But it did not happen to me. Damn, how difficult is it for you to get it through your thick skull that I didn't own those units and can't comment on their reliability. I am commenting on what I have owned. Things I have direct knowledge of.

But if someone on the HD-DVD side was bashing Blu-Ray just because of a bad player that they owned, I'd tell them the same thing, look farther than just one player.

You're obviously choosing to ignore all of the other reasons I prefer Blu-Ray. You've been on my back all day. You're just looking for a fight and it is getting old.


I was in best buy this weeknend helping a freind negotiate a lower price on an A2. (He has a ps3 for Blu-Ray already) While I was there, 2 more A2's went out the door. To say that it's all over with for HD-DVD, I think not, regarless of all of us wanting the war over so that the "masses" will no longer be confused, and high def can move on...


I feel sorry for those people. IMO they just wasted their money. I wonder if your friend will ever return to you for advice after HD-DVD goes under.

Star Wars? Come on. It's Lucas, what do you expect? His excuse for not releasing SW on DVD was that he wanted mass adoption b4 relesing it. Look how long that took. That's just another typical excuse from him.


I've given my reasons for preferring Blu-Ray and frankly I don't need to justify my choice to you. You're obviously not as "balanced" as you say you are as you are doing nothing on this thread but promoting HD-DVD. I'm on the Blu-Ray forum giving reasons why I support the format. I'm not on the HD-DVD forum giving reasons for choosing Blu-Ray.

If you see no logic in what i say, then I think you're in for a big surprise. I'm comfortable with my decision to purchase blu-ray titles rather than support a dying format. Good luck with your choices.

as a uk resident i'm intrigued to hear what large media sellers u think have shut over the last few years. please don't throw fopp at me: they were a bargain basement chain with no history and no interest in highdef.

the virgins and hmvs (by far the largest sellers of dvds in uk highstreets) in bristol, birmingham, cheltenham, watford, and gloucester are all displaying more bd than hd dvd. the percentage has shifted over the last few months, with equal shelf space giving way to a 75-80% split in bd's favour. it's probably not a coincidence that the ps3 covers this same timeframe...

Musiczone? MVC? Any number of small indie shops. They are the only dedicated media sellers left in the UK. I would have thought you would have heard about the financial difficulties that HMV was suffering in the face of increasing competition from supermarkets and online shops. Virgin is in no better position. They just cannot compete price wise


Of the 15 or so HDDVD disks I own, I have only bought 1 new from a UK shop (children of men). The rest were either bought from ebay, sh in gamestation or from internet sites (both UK and US based). The majority of the 15 are US disks with a couple of Australian and UK disks. I would never dream of buying a HD disk from HMV or Virgin due to their high prices

Do you actually live in the UK? Because I do I don't see any of the above taking place

I do and I've heard the same thing from others. Are you saying your local BB isn't BD exclusive? Are you saying things aren't equal in Virgin/HMV??

Only own a HDDVD player at the moment, Blu-Ray definately being pushed harder where i live, in Manchester, i would say the number of Blu Ray titles stocked by both Virgin and HMV outnumbers HD-DVD by about 4-1.

Steve

Musiczone? MVC? Any number of small indie shops. They are the only dedicated media sellers left in the UK. I would have thought you would have heard about the financial difficulties that HMV was suffering in the face of increasing competition from supermarkets and online shops. Virgin is in no better position. They just cannot compete price wise.
you mentioned major retailers closing. mvc were a bargain store like fopp, while musiczone weren't even truly national. hmv may be suffering financial difficulties, but that's not what u were talking about, incorrectly.


Of the 15 or so HDDVD disks I own, I have only bought 1 new from a UK shop (children of men). The rest were either bought from ebay, sh in gamestation or from internet sites (both UK and US based). The majority of the 15 are US disks with a couple of Australian and UK disks. I would never dream of buying a HD disk from HMV or Virgin due to their high prices
which suggests the number of american purchasers of hd dvds is even lower than previously estimated. not that you are necessarily representative of the norm in terms of purchasing habits. though a similar import scenario can be painted for both formats, with no empirical evidence to backup it's significance.

you mentioned major retailers closing. mvc were a bargain store like fopp, while musiczone weren't even truly national. hmv may be suffering financial difficulties, but that's not what u were talking about, incorrectly.



which suggests the number of american purchasers of hd dvds is even lower than previously estimated. not that you are necessarily representative of the norm in terms of purchasing habits. though a similar import scenario can be painted for both formats, with no empirical evidence to backup it's significance.

Given that HD-DVD is maybe viable in the US, and not in Asia or the EU, what percentage of titles sold in the US do you think are exported? It's like games/animes where fans are asked not to import as they will kill demand for a domestic release. This phenomenon could have interesting effects. Enthusiasts will get HD-DVDs for less than the price of local Blu-ray, but this will eventually destroy the local market, costing retail presence.

Some numbers for those not in the UK: Retail on the HD-E1 is ~$900, and they can be found for $400 with two movies from places like Amazon. This is not helping. Yes, the PS3 is more expensive, like it is in the US, but it has a "built-in market" way larger than BD or HD standalones.

Well, I guess I'm wrong on everything. I'm not pushing HD-DVD, I'm here just stating that I'm on both sides. I also said that I've told people that I'm thinking Blu-Ray has the advantage right now. I don't think my friend will be mad at me, he already has a Blu-Ray player and had an Xbox HD-DVD drive. I don't think we're going to regret being able to play back our 50 HD-DVD's regarless of whether the format fails or not. Obviously, you're not getting my point, and I'm not getting yours.

You had a bad experience with your XA1. I get that. Sorry to hear it. I also had bad experiences with some early Blu-Ray players, but I didn't say that Sony sucks or Samsung sucks because of it. I understand that early on in a format's life, there is some crappy hardware. That's just the way it is. I've seen enough electronic format releases to understand that, and not judge just from my one bad experience.

Once again, all I'm for is HD disks, whatever format it is on. You think I'm just coming here looking to start a fight? No, but when I see someone just bashing HD-DVD just because, I'll call them out on it.

It seems that you don't remember that I said I called out somone on an HD-DVD forum also for his rant against Blu-Ray that I perceived was unfair. So no, I'm not here just to stir the Blu-Ray pot.

What are you going to do if HD-DVD wins? Are you going to go back to only DVD? Somehow, I doubt it.

Regardless, I'll be enjoying all releases in HD. Go ahead with your stance..

Obviously, you're not getting my point, and I'm not getting yours.

Agreed.

I understand that early on in a format's life, there is some crappy hardware. That's just the way it is.

Really? Why do I still own the orginal Sony DVP-S7000 DVD player released in 1997 and it still plays all dvds flawlessly? It doesn't support DTS or DVD-Rs but they weren't finalized at that time. I accepted that. But it does play every DVD as it should without locking. Sorry but releasing a $1000 HD-DVD player that won't even play the HD-DVD discs is unacceptable. Toshiba new the garbage they were foisting on consumers but they didn't care. It was all about being first to market.

No, but when I see someone just bashing HD-DVD just because, I'll call them out on it.

Just because????????????? You really are ignoring everything I say. Why do I bother?

What are you going to do if HD-DVD wins?

And maybe the earth is flat.

Regardless, I'll be enjoying all releases in HD. Go ahead with your stance..

Like I said. I'm very comfortable with my choice. And everyday my choice gets even brighter. For instance the Spielberg/Close Encounters announcement.

Oh, and by the way Rwduke, I took a look through your posts. When others are looking for balanced observations on any subject, you insult HD-DVD owers as being naive to or lacking common sense for their choice.

You don't see me stating in any of my posts that Blu-Ray owners are mistaken or in a round about way of saying it, stupid. And I'm arguementative? :rolleyes:

If anyone doubts that, please take a look at the condescending comments toward members.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=871740&page=2&pp=30

Oh, and by the way Rwduke, I took a look through your posts. When others are looking for balanced observations on any subject, you insult HD-DVD owers as being naive to or lacking common sense for their choice.

You don't see me stating in any of my posts that Blu-Ray owners are mistaken or in a round about way of saying it, stupid. And I'm arguementative? :rolleyes:

Just sharing my experience like you.

I think its more like putting them down..

I think its more like putting them down..

:snore:

You've turned this into a personal vendetta. If you don't like what I have to say that's your choice. But you have been the argumentative one. Ignoring all of my opinions and making comments like I'm bashing HD-DVD just because.

You've claimed you're the "balanced" one though all you've done is cheerlead for HD-DVD here on the Blu-Ray forum.

You've made this so personal that you had to go searching through my posts like I'm a politician you need to get dirt on.

Seriously, get a grip.

Whatever man. I don't know how many times I've stated I'm even steven on support. Get it? You're the one that needs to get a grip on your HD-DVD bashing on all posts that I've seen you in. That is immature FANBOY support when you put down others that support it.

Given that HD-DVD is maybe viable in the US, and not in Asia or the EU, what percentage of titles sold in the US do you think are exported? It's like games/animes where fans are asked not to import as they will kill demand for a domestic release. This phenomenon could have interesting effects. Enthusiasts will get HD-DVDs for less than the price of local Blu-ray, but this will eventually destroy the local market, costing retail presence.
if. if the woolworths story is true, the dominoes might already be falling this way in britain. time will tell. frankly i'm not sure what cards toshiba has left to play over here beyond massively reducing the cost of it's players.

i should note however, that today i was in my local waitrose and an hdtv was being shown off to a punter, using a toshiba hd dvd player. so it's not entirely invisible here. bd is simply more visible, and trending more that way.

have to agree with everything mr hunt has concluded, BD is most definately on the up.

Back along we had a vote on a poular forum that had HD-DVD winning by a land slide, little while back there was a revote and blu ray is now leading the way with a good margin. (vote was for who will win).

There are many HD-DVD types who have either switched to BD or have gone neutral. there is still a small diehard group for HD-DVD, but its getting smaller.

Out on the street, BD is easier to find than HD-DVD. 1 reason why hd-dvd maybe selling alot less is due to BD being region encoded on some titles, so you do need to get some region B titles. with HD-DVD being region free it makes more sense to go via the internet on every titles, prices for HD-DVD are stupid with smoking aces going for £27.99 on release. region free could end up being HD-DVDs fall at retail unless prices come in line with US pricing.

an example from HMV sales wise
http://img254.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hdbdmr2.jpg

dosent look pretty for HD-DVD, and i dont see it improving. HD-DVD player price is quite cheap i think (i own two players) and im bet more standalones have been sold, but its not helping UK software much, due to how easy it is to get US software and thus bolster the USA disc sales.

wont say BD has won in the UK but it seems to be picking up the pace. we just need more BD players with reasonable pricing. UK peeps are use to paying over the odds for everything, so i dont think price is as big an issue as it may be in the USA. People in the UK almost seem to think how much you pay out is a reflection on your status.