Well, recently, with my new Onkyo 805 receiver, ive been able to listen to the lossless PCM and Dolby TrueHD sound tracks on my blu-ray discs. The funny thing about upgrades is, you always notice it the most when you get used to the new, then try to go back to the old. Computers, video quality, sound, its always going back where you're like "WOW i dont remember this being this bad/slow"

After getting used to the lossless tracks, i went back to watch some MI3, which is only available with dolby digital at 640 kbs. I cant believe how flat and unexciting the sound track sounds next to lossless. its night and day. On movies with both, switching back and force between lossless and lossy is so drastically different. the lossless track has so much more dynamic range, punch, and crystal clarity to it.

from here on out, im only buying movies with lossless audio. no lossless, no sale.

I wouldn't go as far to say I am only buying movies with lossless, but I am definitely dissapointed anytime I go into the menu to select the audio and lossless isn't a choice.

also check and make sure your receiver is decoding the lossy signals and not your player. several ppl have noticed, including myself, that when we set ps3 to bitstream and let the receiver decode dd5.1/dts, the sound is much better than if we let ps3 decode the signals and sent to receiver as pcm.

also check and make sure your receiver is decoding the lossy signals and not your player. several ppl have noticed, including myself, that when we set ps3 to bitstream and let the receiver decode dd5.1/dts, the sound is much better than if we let ps3 decode the signals and sent to receiver as pcm.
What receiver do you have? Using my Denon AVR-4306, lossy sound tracks sound identical when I let the PS3 decode them as when my AVR does the decoding. You should probably be concerned, because lossless and PCM tracks may be suffering in quality if your AVR's handling of PCM signals isn't up to par.

What receiver do you have? Using my Denon AVR-4306, lossy sound tracks sound identical when I let the PS3 decode them as when my AVR does the decoding. You should probably be concerned, because lossless and PCM tracks may be suffering in quality if your AVR's handling of PCM signals isn't up to par.

i have the sony str-dg910 and there are others that also have said avr > ps3 on decoding lossy tracks, it's an issue of hardware vs software. it's the same thing when on my pc when i let my x-fi sound card decode and letting my z-680 do the decoding. hardware sounds better.

when PS3 is set to LPCM on HDMI, DD5.1 dont sound as good as if PS3 is set to Bitstream. the uncompressed pcm sound the same on either setting. when on bitstream, dd5.1 sounds much better, tho i can still hear some differences between dd5.1 and uncompressed, but not to a point where dd5.1 is unacceptable.

I wouldn't go as far to say I am only buying movies with lossless, but I am definitely dissapointed anytime I go into the menu to select the audio and lossless isn't a choice.

we should probably make a stand against HDM w/o lossless audio. if studios notice sales are lower with titles not including lossless audio, they may start putting them in more titles.

i have the sony str-dg910 and there are others that also have said avr > ps3 on decoding lossy tracks, it's an issue of hardware vs software. it's the same thing when on my pc when i let my x-fi sound card decode and letting my z-680 do the decoding. hardware sounds better.
Well, I have done extensive comparisons and certainly can't come to the same conclusion.

I will say that I have an X-Fi Elite Pro and used to use my PC as an SD DVD player. In that case, I did prefer my Denon decoding the lossy codecs. Of course, this situation is different because other factors like DACs, equalization, and room correction settings come into play.

what player do you use?

After getting used to the lossless tracks, i went back to watch some MI3, which is only available with dolby digital at 640 kbs. I cant believe how flat and unexciting the sound track sounds next to lossless. its night and day. On movies with both, switching back and force between lossless and lossy is so drastically different. the lossless track has so much more dynamic range, punch, and crystal clarity to it.


I totally agree, but according to some 640kbs DD (reg. or +) is plenty and all differences you hear are due to placebo effect or lack of volume matching... :rolleyes:

But hey, SD DVD looked good, too, right? Right?

Well, recently, with my new Onkyo 805 receiver, ive been able to listen to the lossless PCM and Dolby TrueHD sound tracks on my blu-ray discs. The funny thing about upgrades is, you always notice it the most when you get used to the new, then try to go back to the old. Computers, video quality, sound, its always going back where you're like "WOW i dont remember this being this bad/slow"

After getting used to the lossless tracks, i went back to watch some MI3, which is only available with dolby digital at 640 kbs. I cant believe how flat and unexciting the sound track sounds next to lossless. its night and day. On movies with both, switching back and force between lossless and lossy is so drastically different. the lossless track has so much more dynamic range, punch, and crystal clarity to it.

from here on out, im only buying movies with lossless audio. no lossless, no sale.
today i just compared my nine inch nails bluray w/ truehd to an older nine inch nails dvd w/ dolby-night and day,makes the dolby almost sound mono

I totally agree, but according to some 640kbs DD (reg. or +) is plenty and all differences you hear are due to placebo effect or lack of volume matching... :rolleyes:

But hey, SD DVD looked good, too, right? Right?
And, according to some so-called experts a 24/48 1.5mbps DD+ track can be superior to a 16/48 lossless track. But lossless is ALWAYS better than lossy, right?

And, according to some so-called experts a 24/48 1.5mbps DD+ track can be superior to a 16/48 lossless track. But lossless is ALWAYS better than lossy, right?

says the die hard hd-dvd supporters?

says the die hard hd-dvd supporters?
Says at least one gentleman who actually mixes motion picture soundtracks for a living:
Most people that I talk to think that anything abouve 1.2mbps is transparent for all practical purposes... I would tend to agree, and I took a lot of flack some months ago saying I would rather have a high rate lossy codec at 24bit than a downconverted 16 bit PCM/Lossless.
Link. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9839736&&#post9839736)

Says at least one gentleman who actually mixes motion picture soundtracks for a living:

Link. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9839736&&#post9839736)

i stand corrected then. well, i sit corrected.

the lossless track has so much more dynamic range, punch, and crystal clarity to it.

Let's pray all studios will continue to support PCM over the rest of audio format.

And, according to some so-called experts a 24/48 1.5mbps DD+ track can be superior to a 16/48 lossless track. But lossless is ALWAYS better than lossy, right?

Okay, here I thought we were talking about 640k DD vs. lossless.

Of course lossless is better than lossy. It's just that not all uncompressed soundtracks are lossless, so let's say that compressed lossy can potentially sound better than uncompressed lossy, depending on the specific content and tec specs.

Problem solved. :)

I have read that, and I'm not sure I agree.


Actually, comparing 48/16 lossless to 48/24 the difference doesn't seem all that great as comparing lossy to lossless.

A good test is to try the Japanese versions of Pirates of The Caribbean discs. The PCM tracks are 48/16 in Japan while in the US they are 48/24.

also check and make sure your receiver is decoding the lossy signals and not your player. several ppl have noticed, including myself, that when we set ps3 to bitstream and let the receiver decode dd5.1/dts, the sound is much better than if we let ps3 decode the signals and sent to receiver as pcm.

I have to agree with this. I recently got an Onkyo 605 and a set of speakers to use with my PS3, and I can't say I'm blown away by lossless PCM decoded by PS3 vs. DD or DTS decoded by the receiver.

Obviously, perceived sound quality is affected by many factors other than sampling frequency, bit depth, lossy compression, or the listener' ears. I'm sure that background noise generated by AC, appliances and the street can be an issue for people like me who don't have a dedicated HT room. Obviously, the quality of your speakers also matters. I've also noticed that PCM and DD tracks rarely have the same volume, which makes comparisons all the more difficult. And I certainly wouldn't dismiss the placebo effect and other psychological factors. Generally speaking, I prefer to think that the money I spend on HT gear makes a noticeable difference in my life.

Well, in that respect, there is no doubt that my new receiver and speakers are a huge improvement over my TV's speakers--with either lossy compressed sound or lossless PCM. But, if you already have a receiver that does a decent job at decoding DD and DTS, I wouldn't urge you to upgrade to an HDMI receiver that can handle multi-channel lossless PCM. I can think of better ways of spending the money. Maybe I would have a different opinion if I had a dedicated HT room with sound isolation and ultra-quiet AC. Or maybe not...

In any case, it would certainly be interesting to see blind test results of lossless PCM vs. DD or DTS.

Sorry I'm confused.
My understanding is that all hd audio can only be passed by HDMI with the decoding carried out in the player! Or is this just the pcm track?
If so, can TruHD be sent via bitstream/optical?

No TrueHD can also be sent thru the analogs.

My guests have also noticed a difference in sound (for the better) in my theater. And I was using an Onkyo 805! :cool: