Over the past 72 hours we have heard the following from the Blu-ray camp:

- Close Encounters of the Third Kind Announced Exclusively on Blu-ray!!
http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=351

- Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End Announced Exclusively on Blu-ray!!
http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=353

- Target to Sell Blu-ray Players Exclusively
http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=349

- Denon enters HD optical with Exclsuive Blu-ray support with the DVD-3800BDCI.
http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=340

- BJ's Wholesale Club Stores To Carry Blu-ray Exclusively
http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6463556.html

- Woolworths go Blu-ray exclusive. Drop HD-DVD.
http://www.playthree.net/2007/07/woolworths-go-blu-ray-exclusive-drop-hd.html

- Optimum Announces Nutrality And Offers Its Films On Blu-ray
http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=358

- Razor Digital announces Blu-ray Exclusivity with four IMAX titles for Blu-ray on November 13th.
http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=337

- Questar announces Blu-ray Exclusivity with three titles which include 'Rudy Maxa's Europe to the Max', 'The Enchanted Pacific to the Max' and a yet to be announced PBS nature series title.
http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=338

- Tartan Video confirms Blu-ray Exclusivity and announces three titles, 'Black Book', 'The Seventh Seal', and 'Oldboy' on October 23rd.
http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=336

- 'Bram Stoker's Dracula' announced for Exclusive release on Blu-ray for October 2nd.
http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=339

- 'Rein Over Me' announced for Exclusive release on Blu-ray forOctober 9th.
http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=334

~Josh

Denon enters HD optical with Exclsuive Blu-ray support with the DVD-3800BDCI.

It's good to see another CE manufacturer coming out with a high def player, but $2k is a lot of money. I don't see them selling to many at that price.

It's good to see another CE manufacturer coming out with a high def player, but $2k is a lot of money. I don't see them selling to many at that price.

I doubt it will street for that price. I feel their future Blu-ray players will be much more inline with their current DVD prices.

~Josh

Great news for us Blu-ray supporters

Nice to see Dracula, but if this is a Big Day for Blu Ray...

I doubt it will street for that price. I feel their future Blu-ray players will be much more inline with their current DVD prices.

~Josh

There are still high end dvd players that sell as much as bluray players.
I doubt this denon player will drop below $1,000 any time soon.

But overall, yes. It was an above average day for bluray. Hope to have more of these in the future

Trust me when I say that there is a market for a Denon BR player at that price.
I'd buy one.

There's a bigger market for a dual format Denon though.
I'd be a tad disappointed not to see a Denon player that can cover all bases - including DVD-A and SACD.

that denon is also touted as being able to decode DTS-MA and profile 1.1 compliant. those specs on top of the chip mentioned is easily worht the $2k to many ppl here. i only wish i can spend that kind of money.

It does seem that a nice pattern is developing.

I feel the announcements alone (with the exception of the Denon announcement) are small, however when we look at the announcements collectively we can see a clear pattern, a pattern of Blu-ray Exclusivity from both small and large companies.

This pattern has been developing in high-gear for the past 60 days or so, started by the Blockbuster and Starz/Anchor Bay announcements.

~Josh

Nice

At least denon is jumping in though but unless blu ray has a bigger lead on HD DVD then it wont sell that good, unless the war is already over oh wait according to many its been over many times already lol.....

I thought Denon was going to be HDDVD exlcusive, along with Disney going neutral, and that BD50's were science fiction and 1st gen BD players couldn't play BD50's or Java. :rolleyes: :p

I love it when the HDDVD guys make a claim, it's always totally opposite.

Nice to see Dracula, but if this is a Big Day for Blu Ray...

I agree. If news like this is considered a "Big Day" for either format, than we are in for a boring format war.

I doubt it will street for that price. I feel their future Blu-ray players will be much more inline with their current DVD prices.

~Josh

Yeah! It will retail below the MSRP for only $1999.99

I agree. If news like this is considered a "Big Day" for either format, than we are in for a boring format war.

he's talking about everything combined. we didnt just get dracula, we also got tartan along with 3 titles, among other things.

Collectively this is very good news indeed.

Still hoping for Criterion and Image to break their silence soon.

- Tartan Video confirms Blu-ray Exclusivity and announces three titles, 'Black Book', 'The Seventh Seal', and 'Oldboy' on October 23rd.
http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=336

Only Oldboy is Oct 23rd, Black book is earlier (from Sony) and TSS has no release date.

If this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11114957&&#post11114957) is correct then this is another good announcement!!

Hollow Man (Director's Cut)
Release Date: October 16th
MSRP $28.95
Studio: Sony/Columbia

Starship Troopers
Release Date: October 16th
MSRP $28.95
Studio: Sony/Columbia

Edit to add: Keep e'm coming paidgeek and we will make sure you are a "paidgeek" :).

$1999? :eek: Unless this player is a dual format and supports SACD and DVD-A I dont see many people who are in their right mind buying this unit considering the competition that is available for far less and similar performance, unless of course you have money to blow. Just my opinion of course....Besides that, I think its great for BR to have Denon on board.

Amazon just put Lost - The Complete Third Season (Dec 11) and Pirates of the Caribbean - At Worlds End (Dec 4) up for preorder.

Great news for us Blu-ray supporters
Expect the Blu surge to continue :) ................
http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?p=143586&posted=1#post143586

It is only 2:00 p.m. here in the Rocky Mountains and so far today we have heard the following from the Blu-ray camp:

- Questar announces Blu-ray Exclusivity with three titles which include 'Rudy Maxa's Europe to the Max', 'The Enchanted Pacific to the Max' and a yet to be announced PBS nature series title.


Questar? That's the gas company in Utah.

This is so strange. I can't think of any product that I would gush over great news, much less the news from today, like you guys do. Seems that a lot of people here have completely lost all reason on this issue. :(

A 2k BD player? Is it possibly they transposed a few digits there? How many do they expect to sell at that price? Now if it was $199, then that would have been really good news.

A 2k BD player? Is it possibly they transposed a few digits there? How many do they expect to sell at that price? Now if it was $199, then that would have been really good news.It isn't a good sign for November BD prices.

This is so strange. I can't think of any product that I would gush over great news, much less the news from today, like you guys do. Seems that a lot of people here have completely lost all reason on this issue. :(

You mean Tartan and Questar, are not exciting you? LOL

You mean Tartan and Questar, are not exciting you? LOLDo they have movies with penguins? We can never have enough of those.

Wow, lots of sour grapes in here.

And hold on a second...I thought all the small studios were supposed to go HD-DVD because of the lower cost of replication. Wasn't BD supposed to be so expensive as to price out the little guys?

A 2k BD player? Is it possibly they transposed a few digits there? How many do they expect to sell at that price? Now if it was $199, then that would have been really good news.

Denon is selling each and every 1k-3800 dollar DVD player it makes. They are selling EXTREMELY well. 2K for a BD player is a drop in the bucket for their target audience, which isnt hoping for a HD-DVD player at walmart under the name Sum Yung Guy.

I made an identical post in the HD DVD forum.

I find it very interesting that the exciting news of the day in Blu-ray land is the announcement of a $2000 Blu-ray player, while the exciting news of the day in HD DVD land is the announcement of a $199 HD DVD player. As they say .. "When worlds collide"..

For me personally, I can't see spending $2K on a player, but people who love Denon will buy anything at any price. I had no idea that people still spend more than $1K on DVD players from them until I joined this AVS forum. It fascinates me to be honest. But the more I research them, the more I learn that their quality is extraordinary - that's why I'm going to get one of the new receivers just (officially) announced today.

Denon isn't trying to compete with the cheaper A2 for $200. Denon is high end, and high end people seem to have big wallets! LOL

Way to go Blu Ray. What are the chances Universal will go neutral by midnight to make this day REALLY big? *crosses fingers*

I'm on both sides, but if this is great for Blu-Ray...... Some MAJOR releases there. Wow.

Wow, lots of sour grapes in here.

And hold on a second...I thought all the small studios were supposed to go HD-DVD because of the lower cost of replication. Wasn't BD supposed to be so expensive as to price out the little guys?

Hardly sour grapes. I mean come on dude, Tartan? After being beat over the head by BD only folks about how catalog movies dont sell, how the heck is Tartan catalog stuff going to even sell one disc?

I'm calling it like I see it, bunch of "meh" news, but at least the Denon is good stuff, but way to damn $$$

the denon announcement really isn't big news for the war per say. But it's big news for people that already support BR and want a quality player. The stand alone market for BR has been pretty shabby all things considered. The 3rd gen Sammies look pretty nice though. I was planning on upgrading to one of the 3rd gen sammies but if the Denon is out before november I might opt for that instead.

It's a tough week for BR owners though that don't own both formats. I don't know how I could feel about not being able to pick up Shaun of the Dead and Hot Fuzz. Of course the shoe will be on the other foot once Anchor bay rolls those babies out.

I find it very interesting that the exciting news of the day in Blu-ray land is the announcement of a $2000 Blu-ray player, while the exciting news of the day in HD DVD land is the announcement of a $199 HD DVD player. As they say .. "When worlds collide"..

The reason the Denon announcement is so significant is that there were widespread rumors back at CES in January that Denon was aligning with HD DVD. From this announcement, we can clearly say that has not come to pass. Just the same, you make a good point though.

I can see the BDA strategy coming together nicely. They are slowly putting together a large force of small and large companies that will surround HD DVD and put it in a seige mentality. Slowly starving it to death, for lack of studio and hardware support.

Good news indeed! Not that any one piece is earth shattering or anything, but the theme of so many things aligning Blu helps strengthen the format and may help end this next gen high def player war sooner rather than later.

I think this is exciting... Finally a high end piece coming out. If it performs as well (comparatively) as their DVD players do at that price point I will probably end up buying one (assuming 15-20% off can be had).

-Ethan

A 2k BD player? Is it possibly they transposed a few digits there? How many do they expect to sell at that price? Now if it was $199, then that would have been really good news.



Alot of people here will buy it for that price.

Hell, Denon still sells this

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-p9UxO35wAOX/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=54400&I=033DV5910C

And people will buy it even though it will get out rezed by a PS3.

OLDBOY!!! That just made my night. I was about pop it in, but now I think I might wait and let the anticipation grow.

Only Oldboy is Oct 23rd, Black book is earlier (from Sony) and TSS has no release date.
who cares? OLd boy is distributed by Wild side in Europe and Wild side is HD DVD exclusive supporter...most of titles that you guys are thinking distributed by exclusive BR supporter studios , are also in HD dvd in Europe...for example: Mr an MRS smith exclusively in HD DVD in Poland and the quality is close to perfection...so who cares! ;)

who cares? OLd boy is distributed by Wild side in Europe and Wild side is HD DVD exclusive supporter...most of titles that you guys are thinking distributed by exclusive BR supporter studios , are also in HD dvd in Europe...for example: Mr an MRS smith exclusively in HD DVD in Poland and the quality is close to perfection...so who cares! ;)

Why pay $40 for an import when you wll be able to get it domestically on Blu-ray for $20?

~Josh

who cares? OLd boy is distributed by Wild side in Europe and Wild side is HD DVD exclusive supporter...most of titles that you guys are thinking distributed by exclusive BR supporter studios , are also in HD dvd in Europe...for example: Mr an MRS smith exclusively in HD DVD in Poland and the quality is close to perfection...so who cares! ;)


Yea I am sure your average consumer will be thrilled that he can import the titles he want for the low price of $40+ from poland when he can watch it on blu ray for less than half the price. Are you really that out of touch with reality or do you believe that the "I will buy anything that gets released on HD-DVD regardless of the cost or inconvenience" attitude a select few have over at the hd dvd forum represents the general public?

I made an identical post in the HD DVD forum.

I find it very interesting that the exciting news of the day in Blu-ray land is the announcement of a $2000 Blu-ray player, while the exciting news of the day in HD DVD land is the announcement of a $199 HD DVD player. As they say .. "When worlds collide"..

Further more , Toshiba will not be alone, Onkyo HD DVD player will be the counterpoint with Denon BR player...yes sure , Denon could be Hi end player but how many people can afford it? Pioneer elite also has been announced as the very hi end of BR player....now so what? very few people can afford...while HD DVD becomes affordable to every one budget, BR is reserved to limited number of elite of the society!

Why pay $40 for an import when you wll be able to get it domestically on Blu-ray for $20?

~Josh
on the 2000$ player?

It's good to see another CE manufacturer coming out with a high def player, but $2k is a lot of money. I don't see them selling to many at that price.

They will sell every one they make (just like they do the $1,500. 3930 SD machine). Compared to the 3930 - for just $500. more - w/ blu-ray capability thrown in - it's a steal at 2K (IMHO)

I feel the announcements alone (with the exception of the Denon announcement) are small, however when we look at the announcements collectively we can see a clear pattern, a pattern of Blu-ray Exclusivity from both small and large companies.

This pattern has been developing in high-gear for the past 60 days or so, started by the Blockbuster and Starz/Anchor Bay announcements.

~Josh

I agree w/ you 100%

Have we really come to a point on the freaking AVS forums where people don't understand why a Denon player would sell at a major premium?

I may be fine with using a ps3 and a dg810 on a lvm-42w2, but I am kind of in the minority at least here at AVS where people have incredibly nice setups.

They may well sell everyone they make. I am not sure that will be all that many in the grand scheme of things. They key to the success of HD optical media is not $2,000 or even $1,000 players but sub $200 players and discs prices in line with current DVD prices. Catalogue releases are not all that important either.

Yea I am sure your average consumer will be thrilled that he can import the titles he want for the low price of $40+ from poland when he can watch it on blu ray for less than half the price. Are you really that out of touch with reality or do you believe that the "I will buy anything that gets released on HD-DVD regardless of the cost or inconvenience" attitude a select few have over at the hd dvd forum represents the general public?

The point i raised here is not you have to pay expensive HD DVD import to be exclusive in HD DVD...i am neutral format...i own both format player..
The idea is nothing can be really exclusive...in US may be but over the world, it's not at all...Europe has just started distributing HD titles..the price still is high but it will be less in close future just as USA...so arguing that import titles is very expensive is not true...just matter of time...
I am against any kind of exclusivity! the world and internet gives you the large choice for not to be! just my two cent of thought! ;)

Why pay $40 for an import when you wll be able to get it domestically on Blu-ray for $20?

~Josh
Where can I find Mr and Mrs Smith on blu-ray here in the states, much less a fox title for 20 bucks?

Have we really come to a point on the freaking AVS forums where people don't understand why a Denon player would sell at a major premium?

I may be fine with using a ps3 and a dg810 on a lvm-42w2, but I am kind of in the minority at least here at AVS where people have incredibly nice setups.


Exactly, I think people are forgetting where we are at.

There is FAR more expensive items available.

If some people stepped out of the PS3 and X-Box forums, maybe they'd realize that.

You think today is big?

How about Tomorrow (http://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p=143586&postcount=1455) ? :)

Tartan has some good stuff:
Oldboy
Sympathy for Mr. Vengeance
Irreversible
Versus
Battle Royale
Pretty much all of Takashi Miike's films (I dont like his movies but they are cult hits)
Infernal Affairs trilogy
Shiri
Nowhere to Hide
The Machinist

...just to name a few :D

If you are into foreign films then this is definately big news. Half my dvd collection is imports.

Yeah, Denon sells their SD-DVD player (3930) for 1.5K and (5910) for nearly $4K so I would not doubt their "entry" BD player would be nearly $2K:
http://www.usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/3297.asp

http://www.usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/3127.asp

I feel the announcements alone (with the exception of the Denon announcement) are small, however when we look at the announcements collectively we can see a clear pattern, a pattern of Blu-ray Exclusivity from both small and large companies.

This pattern has been developing in high-gear for the past 60 days or so, started by the Blockbuster and Starz/Anchor Bay announcements.

~Josh


I've been saying this was going to happen from the start. I had in my signature..

"Another company goes blue, what is HD DVD going to do?"

Bad news for me. I was hoping we'd finally have a decent HD DVD player. Come on, someone besides Toshiba can make one. :(

So Foreign films aren't a big deal on Blu-ray, But the HDDVD guys made a big-to-do about Indy Films with MS & Amazon.... :confused: seems like ying & yang to me.

These threads make me laugh! In the BD forum it is thread after thread declaring that Blu-Ray will be the winner of the format battle...in the HD- forum it is obviously the opposite. Honestly neither format is really even in competition with each other. They are in competition with DVD and Cable/DVR. ONe format will win against DVD and that will be the next format that is universally adopted.

Neither Blu-Ray or HD is better right now. GB is a trivial argument as currrent titles have shown, online support is mediocre at best, and both camps have exclusives.

Some of you guys really need to find a sprts team to root for or something. This BD vs HD cheering is getting just too silly. Honestly, are you interested because you want to see some hi def content on your HT, or because you need something to beleive in?

These threads make me laugh! In the BD forum it is thread after thread declaring that Blu-Ray will be the winner of the format battle...in the HD- forum it is obviously the opposite. Honestly neither format is really even in competition with each other. They are in competition with DVD and Cable/DVR. ONe format will win against DVD and that will be the next format that is universally adopted.

Neither Blu-Ray or HD is better right now. GB is a trivial argument as currrent titles have shown, online support is mediocre at best, and both camps have exclusives.

Some of you guys really need to find a sprts team to root for or something. This BD vs HD cheering is getting just too silly. Honestly, are you interested because you want to see some hi def content on your HT, or because you need something to beleive in?


Will I see him on the tv
Preachin bout the promised land
He tells me to believe in jesus
And steals the money from my hand

Some say he was a good man
But lord I think he sinned, yeah

Twenty-two years of mental tears
Cries a suicidal vietnam vet
Who fought a losing war on a foreign shore
To find his country didnt want him back

Their bullets took his best friend in saigon
Our lawyers took his wife and kids, no regrets
In a time I dont remember
In a war he cant forget

He cried forgive me for what Ive done there
Cause I never meant the things I did

Chorus:
And give me something to believe in
If theres a lord above
And give me something to believe in
Oh, lord arise

My best friend died a lonely man
In some palm springs hotel room
I got the call last christmas eve
And they told me the news

I tried all night not to break down and cry
As the tears rolled down my face
I felt so cold and empty
Like a lost soul out of place

And the mirror, mirror on the wall
Sees my smile it fades again

Chorus

Sometimes I wish to God I didnt know now
The things I didnt know then
Road you gotta take me home

Solo

I drive by the homeless sleeping on a cold dark street
Like bodies in an open grave
Underneath the broken old neon sign
That used to read jesus saves

A mile away live the rich folks
And I see how theyre living it up
While the poor they eat from hand to mouth
The rich is drinkin from a golden cup

And it just makes me wonder
Why so many lose, so few win

Chorus

You take the high road
And Ill take the low road

Sometimes I wish to God I didnt know now
The things I didnt know then

And give me something to believe in

Wow, some good momentum for Blu-Ray, nice!

The Denon player is a non event. No DVD-A or SACD playback and no Ethernet built in. Very disappointing coming from Denon.

These threads make me laugh! In the BD forum it is thread after thread declaring that Blu-Ray will be the winner of the format battle...in the HD- forum it is obviously the opposite. Honestly neither format is really even in competition with each other. They are in competition with DVD and Cable/DVR. ONe format will win against DVD and that will be the next format that is universally adopted.

Neither Blu-Ray or HD is better right now. GB is a trivial argument as currrent titles have shown, online support is mediocre at best, and both camps have exclusives.

Some of you guys really need to find a sprts team to root for or something. This BD vs HD cheering is getting just too silly. Honestly, are you interested because you want to see some hi def content on your HT, or because you need something to beleive in?

keep on laughing then. in here there are threads after threads that BD will win, in HD-DVD forums i've seen several saying both formats are here to stay rather than HD-DVD winning. the only way i can see BD losing this war is if BD pulls a michael vick and has to be pulled off the shelves. i guess when your team can't win you try to find something else to do.

BD doesnt have to overtake DVD, all players can play DVDs, you dont have to dump your collection of DVDs for BDs like it was going from VHS to DVD. it will take a lot longer for BD to overtake DVD than it did for DVD to overtake VHS.

The Denon player is a non event. No DVD-A or SACD playback and no Ethernet built in. Very disappointing coming from Denon.

the ps3 can play sacd's and should be able to be updated to decode dts-ma while selling at $499-$599, denon player can't play sacd and sells at $2000, ouch.

Bad news for me. I was hoping we'd finally have a decent HD DVD player. Come on, someone besides Toshiba can make one. :(

Obviously no one wants to bother to do so.

"denon player can't play sacd and sells at $2000, ouch."

My panasonic can at least play DVD-A, I was hoping Denon would give us the full monty, but at the price they are charging don't see any compelling reason to go for the Denon.

I'll upgrade my panny when there is a BD player that does DVD-A and SACD, and is fully 2.0 compliant with ethernet.

A 2k BD player? Is it possibly they transposed a few digits there? How many do they expect to sell at that price? Now if it was $199, then that would have been really good news.

They sell for the same reason that they can sell the DVD-5910CI for $3,800
http://usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/3127.asp

The Denon player is a non event. No DVD-A or SACD playback and no Ethernet built in. Very disappointing coming from Denon.HD DVD talking points:

Meridian & Onkyo announce HD DVD plans with no specs, pricing, or timeframe: Huge event
Denon announces Blu-ray plans with full specs, MSRP, and estimated release: Non-event

Yes, that makes perfect sense.

HD DVD talking points:

Meridian & Onkyo announce HD DVD plans with no specs: Huge event
Denon announces Blu-ray plans with full specs: Non-event

Gotcha.

Ha, ha.
It's getting more comical by the day.

Wait until we see what the posts are like in December.

Ha, ha.
It's getting more comical by the day.

Wait until we see what the posts are like in December.Well, we're already seeing the same people who talked about the Meridian and Onkyo announcements as "completing the full price spectrum" claiming that Denon means nothing. What's also comical is that Onkyo's started to make noise about a dual-format player, so they don't even have that "exclusive" to wave around anymore.

the ps3 can play sacd's and should be able to be updated to decode dts-ma while selling at $499-$599, denon player can't play sacd and sells at $2000, ouch.

And a knock-off swiss army knife has a screwdriver a bottle opener and a mini-compass and costs $2 at a flea market. Why would anyone ever buy a high quality Bowie knife?

Now, am I saying the PS3 is a cheap swiss army knife knock off? NO, but my point is you have to recognize that, whether you agree there is a quality differnece or not, there is a clear market of people who believe that the what the Denon does do, it does far better than the PS3.

HD DVD talking points:

Meridian & Onkyo announce HD DVD plans with no specs, pricing, or timeframe: Huge event
Denon announces Blu-ray plans with full specs, MSRP, and estimated release: Non-event

Yes, that makes perfect sense.

Truth be told.

I find it (again) ironic that HD DVD fans tell us that a $2000 Onkyo or Meridian is great news for HD DVD (see previous threads on this), but a $2000 Denon Blu-ray player is not good news for Blu-ray. Bottom line is this is a positive for Blu-ray - just like the Blockbuster announcement and the number of smaller studios going Blu-ray exclusive (which HD DVD people told us earlier would go HD DVD exclsuive instead because of how wonderful HD DVD is). In addition, Denon will have sub $2000 Blu-ray players just as they have cheaper DVD players.

And a knock-off swiss army knife has a screwdriver a bottle opener and a mini-compass and costs $2 at a flea market. Why would anyone ever buy a high quality Bowie knife?

Now, am I saying the PS3 is a cheap swiss army knife knock off? NO, but my point is you have to recognize that, whether you agree there is a quality differnece or not, there is a clear market of people who believe that the what the Denon does do, it does far better than the PS3.

i get your point, and hell if i had money to throw away i buy the denon too. just saying for that kinda money you would think they include a sacd player at least.

btw that $2000 tag is actually worth more than my tv, hard to imagine.

"HD DVD talking points:"

I'm not an HD-DVD talking head my friend as I've put some series money down on the Panasonic BLU-RAY player and almost 80 BLU-RAY discs. It just would have been nice for Denon to give us a real incentive to pay 2000$ for their player.

Without ethernet or DVD-A playback or SACD playback it simply doesn't have the features to warrant a 2000$ price tag. At least Denon's high end DVD players were high quality universal audio players.

Currently the Denon feature wise would almost be a downgrade to the Panasonic, at least the Panasonic gives DVD-A support and has very good audio DAC's.

Excuse me for not getting excited about an over priced under featured BLU-RAY player.

Give me Profile 2.0 compliance, DVD-A playback and SACD playback and I'll fork over the 2000$

I'm not an HD-DVD talking head my friend as I've put some series money down on the Panasonic BLU-RAY player and almost 80 BLU-RAY discs. It just would have been nice for Denon to give us a real incentive to pay 2000$ for their player.No, you're not, but you are the latest to parrot them, which is why I quoted you.

It is only 2:00 p.m. here in the Rocky Mountains and so far today we have heard the following from the Blu-ray camp:

- Razor Digital announces Blu-ray Exclusivity with four IMAX titles for Blu-ray on November 13th.
http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=337

- Questar announces Blu-ray Exclusivity with three titles which include 'Rudy Maxa's Europe to the Max', 'The Enchanted Pacific to the Max' and a yet to be announced PBS nature series title.
http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=338

~Josh

Well that's it. It's officially over. Looks like I'll have to cancel my preorders for Shaun of the Dead, Hot Fuzz, Heroes Season 1, and Battlestar Galactica Season 1. If Blu Ray is going to snag hot exclusives like those IMAX titles and PBS series, HD DVD is finished.

"No, you're not, but you are the latest to parrot them, which is why I quoted you."

I've given full reasons why this is a non event, sorry that I'm not blinded with anything BLU-RAY related, hardly makes me a parrot to have some legit gripes about a $2000 BLU-RAY player that should have more features for it's price.

In general most people in a position to spend 2k on a Denon BD player already have a high-end player that can do SACD and DVD-A so those features are a non-issue unless they were really anticipating replacing one unit with another.

Ha, ha.
It's getting more comical by the day.

Wait until we see what the posts are like in December.

I always look forward to see whatever the latest argument is. For the longest time I kept reading Blu-ray players not up to spec coming from a HD-DVD add-on owner for his 360 that can't even do lossless surround, classic :eek:

"so those features are a non-issue"

So what is the justification for how overpriced the Denon player is? I'm well aware of high end products and Denon as most of my equipment is Lexicon, Denon fits squarely in the mid tier range for high end equipment, there products are good but certainly not anywhere near the best. Honestly is the transport and video decoders the Denon is going to use going to be worth two to three times the price of the latest Samsung, Sony or Panasonic players?

It just seems backwards for Denon to put out a player two to three times the price WITHOUT upping the anti on features.

These release may make Blu-ray look better in the format war, but they do nothing to help it get out of its status as a niche market. I have absolutely no interest in purchasing any of those titles.

Come on guys let's keep talking about the Denon and what it means for BR.

Take the higher ground.

I always look forward to see whatever the latest argument is. For the longest time I kept reading Blu-ray players not up to spec coming from a HD-DVD add-on owner for his 360 that can't even do lossless surround, classic :eek:

Really. Now we're bringing up lack of SACD and DVD-A? It must be getting pretty scary on the HD-DVD end. Which HD-DVD players support those thriving formats? Maybe Denon should've put a DVHS slot in there too.

If this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11114957&&#post11114957) is correct then this is another good announcement!!

Hollow Man (Director's Cut)
Release Date: October 16th
MSRP $28.95
Studio: Sony/Columbia

Starship Troopers
Release Date: October 16th
MSRP $28.95
Studio: Sony/Columbia

Edit to add: Keep e'm coming paidgeek and we will make sure you are a "paidgeek" :).

Starship Troopers is the only news in this thread IMO. Hope it true. Love that movie.
Otherwise, a bunch of mehs is just a bigger meh.

Great news - Surprisingly enough, there is actually a large (relatively) market for very high end Denon B-R players. They make reference-grade equipment, and paired with the right panel/audio setup would make a killer theater. Good to hear, good for us Blu supporters. The Target thing didn't amount to anything, but we've been on a roll for the past couple months. I'm quite excited to see where things are this time next year, or even by Christmas...

Really. Now we're bringing up lack of SACD and DVD-A? It must be getting pretty scary on the HD-DVD end. Which HD-DVD players support those thriving formats? Maybe Denon should've put a DVHS slot in there too.

seriously when I mentioned I was happy that my PS3 included SACD and that I enjoyed it all I got was " :rolleyes: " or other combatative remarks from the HD-DVD fanatics.. Now a player doesn't have it and the spew just simply flows in a different direction.

I think it would have been better if Denon included SACD and DVD-A.

"HD DVD talking points:"

I'm not an HD-DVD talking head my friend as I've put some series money down on the Panasonic BLU-RAY player and almost 80 BLU-RAY discs. It just would have been nice for Denon to give us a real incentive to pay 2000$ for their player.



You know you could at least be upfront and honest with the posters in here given your Sony hating post history on other forums. You have been banned from IGN four times over the last year for trolling the PS3 forums and bashing anything that has to do with Sony (http://boards.ign.com/), more than any other member. Your Teamxbox post history is equally fantastic (http://forum.teamxbox.com/search.php?do=finduser&u=19382) and I dare to say you are one of if not the biggest Sony hater on the largest Xbox fan site no less, so don't try and play like you are really "neutral."

Lost S3, POTC at worlds end, bram stokers dracula, starship troopers, hollow man, imax titles, DBZ. seems like a very good past 2 days to me. this 4th quarter is going to be so lopsided.

"No, you're not, but you are the latest to parrot them, which is why I quoted you."

I've given full reasons why this is a non event, sorry that I'm not blinded with anything BLU-RAY related, hardly makes me a parrot to have some legit gripes about a $2000 BLU-RAY player that should have more features for it's price.

Swanlee,

What is your take with all of the recent momentum Blu-ray is building over the past 60 days or so? I.E. - Multiple studios going Blu-ray Exclusive (Starz/Anchorbay, FUNImation, Razor, Tartan, EIV, BCI, etc.), Blockbuster going Blu, Dennon going Blu, etc.

Also when you say the Denon announcement is a "non-event". Will you say the same if HD-DVD gets another CE manufacturer to join?

~Josh

^

Just ignore him beatboy.

Swanlee has been banned from IGN four times for trolling the PS3 forums and for Sony bashing.

Also look at his post history on Teamxbox: http://forum.teamxbox.com/search.php?do=finduser&u=19382

He is obviously in no way "neutral."

I'm sorry I was really looking forward to the Denon player having a lot of extra features and they did not come through, top it off with the $2000 price tag and you wonder why some may be disappointed.

You know you could at least be upfront and honest with the posters in here given your Sony hating post history on other forums. You have been banned from IGN four times over the last year for trolling the PS3 forums and bashing anything that has to do with Sony (http://boards.ign.com/), more than any other member. Your Teamxbox post history is equally fantastic (http://forum.teamxbox.com/search.php?do=finduser&u=19382) and I dare to say you are one of if not the biggest Sony hater on the largest Xbox fan site no less, so don't try and play like you are really "neutral."

This is the greatest PWNAGED post of all time.....I am still laughing.

Honestly, why are there so many HD-DVD morons in this thread? You think that the 3 or 4 people in here bashing blu-ray or the 20 people or so in the HD-DVD threads that actually back that garbage format is going to make a change? When your backs are against the wall, it is the 12th round and you are losing 10 rounds to 1(that one being Universal) you become desperate and will do anything to try and win. Here is a good scenario for this. Blu-ray is Evander Holyfield and HD-DVD is Mike Tyson getting frustrated trying to bite the ear of EH.

This is the greatest PWNAGED post of all time.....I am still laughing.
+1

For one that is not me.

After studying the writing style of "swanlee" on the Xbox forum my personal opinion is that that is clearly you. Why all the hate for Sony/Blu-ray?

~Josh

"You know you could at least be upfront and honest with the posters in here given your Sony hating post history on other forums."

For one that is not me for two click the links in my signature and see actual pictures of my Panasonic BLU-RAY player and BLU-RAY collection. I'm sorry I was really looking forward to the Denon player having a lot of extra features and they did not come through, top it off with the $2000 price tag and you wonder why some may be disapointed.

Oh come off it. There are just so many Swanlee's who happen to own the Xbox 360 + HD-DVD add-on + a Panasonic Blu-ray player (http://forum.teamxbox.com/showthread.php?p=9567748#post9567748) who post on Xbox/PS3/Blu-ray message boards and reply with quotes without using the quote function and who happen to live in the exact same apartment (http://forum.teamxbox.com/showthread.php?p=9423871#post9423871 vs. http://gallery.avsforum.com/showphoto.php/photo/25617) that it is really hard to keep track of them all.

After studying the writing style of "swanlee" on the Xbox forum my personal opinion is that that is clearly you. Why all the hate for Sony/Blu-ray?

~Josh

Most likely, its his boss pushing him to make hateful post against sony/blu-ray and meet his quota daily. Must suck to be a paid shill.

Oh come off it. There are just so many Swanlee's who happen to own the Xbox 360 + HD-DVD add-on + a Panasonic Blu-ray player (http://forum.teamxbox.com/showthread.php?p=9567748#post9567748) who post on Xbox/PS3/Blu-ray message boards and reply with quotes without using the quote function that it is really hard to keep track of them all.


Wow, just wow. :D

lmfao!

Honestly though I certainly didn't need any evidence from other forums to know he wasn't format neutral. He's been spewing the same garbage here for over a year about despising Sony, etc.

Oh come off it. There are just so many Swanlee's who happen to own the Xbox 360 + HD-DVD add-on + a Panasonic Blu-ray player (http://forum.teamxbox.com/showthread.php?p=9567748#post9567748) who post on Xbox/PS3/Blu-ray message boards and reply with quotes without using the quote function and who happen to live in the exact same apartment (http://forum.teamxbox.com/showthread.php?p=9423871#post9423871 vs. http://gallery.avsforum.com/showphoto.php/photo/25617) that it is really hard to keep track of them all.

Nice Find! That certainly confirms it is the same Swanlee. No doubt.

~Josh

Nice Find! That certainly confirms it is the same Swanlee. No doubt.

~Josh

Kind of sad if it is him. Is there any sense of self-worth for a person that would lie about who they are? I think that kind of person should seek professional help, there must be a lot of pain inside. I hope for his sake that it isn't him.

sure explains a lot about his posts if true.

swanlee,
honestly if you were anticipating a player from denon, you shouldnt be expecting anything less than $2000. well i'd like to but will never buy a $2000.00 player (unless i win the lottery), i'm in no way surprised or disappointed by the price of the new denon player.

outside of your beatboy bashing posts you post complaints about the bd format. you tend to make comments of your displeasure with any bd announcements/news. you have a lot more hd-dvds than you do bd's which leads me to believe you're only on the blu side b/c there are too many titles you can't get on hd-dvd. do you buy all your warner and paramount titles on hd-dvd?

Kind of sad if it is him. Is there any sense of self-worth for a person that would lie about who they are? I think that kind of person should seek professional help, there must be a lot of pain inside. I hope for his sake that it isn't him.

If you look at the pictures of the HT set-up of each Swanlee at each site, you can clearly see it's the same set-up. I wonder if he will post here anymore.

~Josh

There are really no "ifs" about it.

Swanlee's setup on Teamxbox:
http://forum.teamxbox.com/showthread.php?p=9423871#post9423871

Swanlee's setup on AVSForum:
http://gallery.avsforum.com/showphoto.php/photo/25617

are you sure somebody isn't just obsessed with him and mimmicked his setup to the tee :p

C'mon guys - let's get back on topic. This isn't a videogame forum frequented by teens (of course I could be mistaken since you all are acting just like them).

Take the high road and grow up.

Truth is a $2k player on either format is a non issue. It will not gain wide acceptance by those that are not already involved in the format war (I.E. Joe6Pack).

Had they announced a $199 player that would have been BIG news and would have really put a hurt on HD DVD. But @ $2k, HD DVD is not even breaking a sweat.

C'mon guys - let's get back on topic. This isn't a videogame forum frequented by teens (of course I could be mistaken since you all are acting just like them).

Take the high road and grow up.

Geez, telling people to grow up and at the same time attacking them, classic.

Anyways I don't see the harm in having a little fun if somebody is blatantly lying. Some of us have lightened up a little :)

HD DVD is not even breaking a sweat.

HD DVD must be dehydrated then.

I'm sorry I was really looking forward to the Denon player having a lot of extra features and they did not come through, top it off with the $2000 price tag and you wonder why some may be disapointed.
It's the quality which costs, not "extra features". What features do you expect a $4000 Denon DVD player to have? They don't have extra features compared to some cheaper players, they just happen to be better quality players.

It's very healthy and positive sign for Blu-ray that there is more variation in the players available. Quite nice selection of players from different manufacturers already exist for many kinds of customers.

There are really no "ifs" about it. Here's the summary:

Swanlee's setup on Teamxbox:
http://forum.teamxbox.com/showthread.php?p=9423871#post9423871

Swanlee's setup on AVSForum:
http://gallery.avsforum.com/showphoto.php/photo/25617

Swanlee on Teamxbox:
-Owns an Xbox 360 + HD-DVD add-on + Panasonic Blu-ray player
http://forum.teamxbox.com/showthread.php?p=9567748#post9567748
-Hates Sony + Shows obvious contempt for those that like the PS3
http://forum.teamxbox.com/search.php?do=finduser&u=19382

Swanlee on AVSForum:
-Owns an Xbox 360 + HD-DVD add-on + Panasonic Blu-ray player
http://gallery.avsforum.com/showphoto.php/photo/25617
-Hates Sony + Shows obvious contempt for those that like Blu-ray/PS3
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=809608

Post history on Teamxbox:
http://forum.teamxbox.com/search.php?do=finduser&u=19382

Post history on AVSForum:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/search.php?searchid=5674953

Banned four times from IGN forums for trolling and bashing the PS3:
http://boards.ign.com/ps3_general_board/b8267/p1

And to add to all that he is the only poster I have ever seen in my entire life who quotes people in one sentence intervals without using the quote function.


lmao... this is priceless...

For a moment I thought this thread was about the Target announcement!

for a moment I thought it was about BR!

For a moment I thought this thread was about the Target announcement!

Nah, looks to me like some sort of an episode of CSI: Swanlee

There are still people claiming that something is coming out today.

For a moment I thought this thread was about the Target announcement!

At least you are consistent!

Nah, looks to me like some sort of an episode of CSI: Swanlee

There are still people claiming that something is coming out today.

Maybe AVS needs to have a 3 false claims and you are out policy especially from "people in the know".

Maybe AVS needs to have a 3 false claims and you are out policy especially from "people in the know".


I certainly wish the AVS policy of "attacking a poster is a no no" would be enforced. This thread would be void of most posts.

I fully expect more name calling and deriding comments from the "fans" on this thread.

let's get back on topic before mods close this thread as we continue to anticipate another big step toward the end of the format war.

Yea I guess the mods have different rules for different posters about personal attacks. Glad to see the usual riff raff trying to attack a person with a legit gripe about a $2000 BLU-RAY player with no compelling features over models half the price.

Have fun on your wild goose chases to attack me, but my point still stands introducing a player at $2000 that is not a significant upgrade to current players is not a good thing.

Yea I guess the mods have different rules for different posters about personal attacks. Glad to see the usual riff raff trying to attack a person with a legit gripe about a $2000 BLU-RAY player with no compelling features over models half the price.

Have fun on your wild goose chases to attack me, but my point still stands introducing a player at $2000 that is not a significant upgrade to current players is not a good thing.


This has nothing to do with singling you out for an "attack." This has to do with someone whom I have knowledge from other forums being probably the biggest Sony hater on the Internet trying to play himself off as neutral to an unsuspecting audience. What I don't get is why did you lie about it and tell us that Teamxbox poster wasn't you? This stuff isn't a big enough deal to lie about it. So you vehemently hate Sony and have contempt for anyone that likes the PS3. Just be upfront about it and don't lie about it.

I see Beatboy's posts in the HD-DVD forum exactly the same way as people here see swanlee's posts, so to see his complaint here is really the definition of the pot calling the kettle black.

That said, I am also format neutral, I love my PS3 and tolerate my HD-A1, although I am planning on picking up a Gen3 HD-DVD player if Toshiba can get all of the bugs worked out by then. I'm using my PS3 mainly as a blu-ray player as it's a bit disconcerting to play games on a 10 foot screen. I would love to eventually get a full-featured blu-ray player to replace the PS3.

My current DVD player is the Denon 2900, and it's built like a tank and is a wonderful DVD player. But swanlee's (amongst others) complaint of lack of SACD and DVD-Audio is valid because the entire Denon premium DVD player line contains those features (and yes, many of us use them). I also don't think the new Denon is worth upgrading to based on what I currently own. But to say it's a non-event is definitely downplaying the announcement.

I see Beatboy's posts in the HD-DVD forum exactly the same way as people here see swanlee's posts, so to see his complaint here is really the definition of the pot calling the kettle black.

That said, I am also format neutral, I love my PS3 and tolerate my HD-A1, although I am planning on picking up a Gen3 HD-DVD player if Toshiba can get all of the bugs worked out by then. I'm using my PS3 mainly as a blu-ray player as it's a bit disconcerting to play games on a 10 foot screen. I would love to eventually get a full-featured blu-ray player to replace the PS3.

My current DVD player is the Denon 2900, and it's built like a tank and is a wonderful DVD player. But swanlee's (amongst others) complaint of lack of SACD and DVD-Audio is valid because the entire Denon premium DVD player line contains those features (and yes, many of us use them). I also don't think the new Denon is worth upgrading to based on what I currently own. But to say it's a non-event is definitely downplaying the announcement.

Really, Beatboy blatantly lied about posting at another forum? Link?

OLD BOY! That's good enough for me! Dracula will also make it into the collection upon release.

I see Beatboy's posts in the HD-DVD forum exactly the same way as people here see swanlee's posts, so to see his complaint here is really the definition of the pot calling the kettle black.

That said, I am also format neutral, I love my PS3 and tolerate my HD-A1, although I am planning on picking up a Gen3 HD-DVD player if Toshiba can get all of the bugs worked out by then. I'm using my PS3 mainly as a blu-ray player as it's a bit disconcerting to play games on a 10 foot screen. I would love to eventually get a full-featured blu-ray player to replace the PS3.

My current DVD player is the Denon 2900, and it's built like a tank and is a wonderful DVD player. But swanlee's (amongst others) complaint of lack of SACD and DVD-Audio is valid because the entire Denon premium DVD player line contains those features (and yes, many of us use them). I also don't think the new Denon is worth upgrading to based on what I currently own. But to say it's a non-event is definitely downplaying the announcement.

Finally some decent discussion about the topic.

I agree that it is noteworthy news. I would like to see more CE companies show support for either HD format. I do think that the Denon announcement would have much more punch if they made their $2000 player a total universal player, with pro quality DAC's. Seriously, don't most of their receivers cost less than $2000?

Very good news the last 2 days :)
beatboy77 was so right! n1.

You know, this is starting to get interesting. First Blockbuster, and now Target. It looks like some retailers have decided to force a decision on the marketplace.

C'mon guys - let's get back on topic. This isn't a videogame forum frequented by teens (of course I could be mistaken since you all are acting just like them).

Take the high road and grow up.
Good advise. Any more reports on this thread and it will be closed. Quit the bickering. talk about the topic. Personal attacks need to stop.

I guess we can add the Close Encounters of The Third Kind BD announcement and Pirates of the Caribbean 3 verification to the list :) And the hits keep on coming...

I have to admit, I cancelled my Heroes S1 HD-DVD pre-order based on recent events.

I don't mind spending ~$20 per title on Uni movies right now, but I can't bring myself to spend ~$65 on a set that would be a blind buy and is on a format that looks more and more likely to not survive past 2008.

The OP has been updated to include the following:

- Close Encounters of the Third Kind Announced Exclusively on Blu-ray!!
http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=351

- Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End Announced Exclusively on Blu-ray!!
http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=353

- Target to Sell Blu-ray Players Exclusively
http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=349

~Josh

The OP has been updated to include the following:

- BJ's Wholesale Club Stores To Carry Blu-ray Exclusively
http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6463556.html

~Josh

This is great news for HDDVD!! :D

I have to admit, I cancelled my Heroes S1 HD-DVD pre-order based on recent events.

I don't mind spending ~$20 per title on Uni movies right now, but I can't bring myself to spend ~$65 on a set that would be a blind buy and is on a format that looks more and more likely to not survive past 2008.

There are people taking the red pill that do use their brains.....I give you a lot of credit for admitting that. Seriously......Not an easy thing to admit partial defeat.

There are people taking the red pill that do use their brains.....I give you a lot of credit for admitting that. Seriously......Not an easy thing to admit partial defeat.

For sure. Respect.

I have to admit, I cancelled my Heroes S1 HD-DVD pre-order based on recent events.

I don't mind spending ~$20 per title on Uni movies right now, but I can't bring myself to spend ~$65 on a set that would be a blind buy and is on a format that looks more and more likely to not survive past 2008.

my god, seriously, do you really believe that would happen that fast? :cool:

"seriously, do you really believe that would happen that fast? "

Even if it did happen that fast it's not like the HD-DVD's or his player will blow up all of a sudden. I have cd's from the mid 80's that still play fine. I can understand buying BLU-RAY versions of titles on both sides but a widely sought after Exclusive title is not worth depriving yourself over just because a bunch of execs couldn't agree to come up with one format.

Seems silly for him to artificially deprive himself when he already has the player to play the discs.

"seriously, do you really believe that would happen that fast? "

Even if it did happen that fast it's not like the HD-DVD's or his player will blow up all of a sudden. I have cd's from the mid 80's that still play fine. I can understand buying BLU-RAY versions of titles on both sides but a widely sought after Exclusive title is not worth depriving yourself over just because a bunch of execs couldn't agree to come up with one format.

Seems silly for him to artificially deprive himself when he already has the player to play the discs.


People don't like having the loser. It's what hastens these type debates to a conclusion...

It's the same during a presidential election, voting for someone who is losing according to your news broadcast...

People see HD DVD as losing, and they are voting with their wallets.

This'll be over faster than you all will imagine.

um, my wallet just buys the movies I want.
I guess you would say I'm Voting my Home Theater's conscience.

To each their own I guess.


and when you say something like "this will be over faster than you will imagine"...
are you just questioning his imagination?
I'm curious to hear from you exactly how fast this will be.

"People don't like having the loser. "

Huh? he already owns the player, what good does it do to deprive yourself of exclusive content? This is not a race, competition to the death or a sporting event, the format war ended in my house when I got a BLU-RAY player end of story.

It just seems so freakin silly to be all political about a dang movie purchase. It's a piece of freakin plastic. If their is Exclusive BLU-RAY content I'm going to buy it, even though the PS3 is tanking in sales since the PS3 pretty much saved BLU-RAY but is doing badly as a game console, if their is an Exclusive HD-DVD I want I'm going to buy it as well regardless of the Target announcement.

It doesn't make sense to deprive yourself of a movie\series you want just because discs sales and hyped up news is swaying one way or another. If you already own both players why would you care who is winning this week or not?

"People don't like having the loser. "

Huh? he already owns the player, what good does it do to deprive yourself of exclusive content? This is not a race, competition to the death or a sporting event, the format war ended in my house when I got a BLU-RAY player end of story.

It just seems so freakin silly to be all political about a dang movie purchase. It's a piece of freakin plastic. If their is Exclusive BLU-RAY content I'm going to buy it, even though the PS3 is tanking in sales since the PS3 pretty much saved BLU-RAY but is doing badly as a game console, if their is an Exclusive HD-DVD I want I'm going to buy it as well regardless of the Target announcement.

It doesn't make sense to deprive yourself of a movie\series you want just because discs sales and hyped up news is swaying one way or another. If you already own both players why would you care who is winning this week or not?

I think what he was getting at is that he does not want to invest his money in a format which appears to be on the way out. He is willing to wait until Heroes is available on Blu-ray. This way he can have all of his movies on one format with zero risk of that format becomming obsolete.

As you read through the many posts here on AVS we keep hearing HD-DVD supporters saying something along the lines of:

"Why stop buying HD-DVD? Even if it does fail, the movies and hardware will still work."

Here's why I don't. I do not buy HD-DVD titles, because I know they will all be available on Blu-ray if I have a bit of patience. If I really have a hankering to see a currently exclusive HD-DVD movie, I just rent it (BB, Netflix, etc.).

I think most people realize that the HD-DVD hardware and software they currently own will work long into the future, but most people do not want to keep building up a collection of a format that very well looks to be on its way out before too long. Most people want to build a collection of a format which will be around for the years to come and that appears to be Blu-ray if either of these two survives.

My advice is simple to people sitting on the fence in regards to this format war. It is clear now that Blu-ray is the chosen format. We have seen multiple times over the past 60 days where companies both large and small have gone Blu-ray exclusive. It appears that companies are making/forcing a choice and that choice is Blu-ray. For you fence-sitters it is now safe to enter the world of HD optical.

My advice for format neutral members in regards to this format war too is simple. Buy the movies you love on Blu-ray and rent the must-see exclusive Universal films you love on HD-DVD as I believe Universal will be releasing on Blu-ray in early 2008. It will take patience of around 6 to 9 months IMO to get Universal movies on Blu-ray but the wait will be well worth it.

By doing the two beforementioned pieces of advice you will be able to remove the clutter of two peices of hardware hooked to your display in the future.

Just My .02

~Josh

I think most people realize that the HD-DVD hardware and software they currently own will work long into the future, but most people do not want to keep building up a collection of a format that very well looks to be on its way out before too long. Most people want to build a collection of a format which will be around for the years to come and that appears to be Blu-ray if either of these two survives.

My advice is simple to people sitting on the fence in regards to this format war. It is clear now that Blu-ray is the chosen format. We have seen multiple times over the past 60 days where companies both large and small have gone Blu-ray exclusive. It appears that companies are making/forcing a choice and that choice is Blu-ray. For you fence-sitters it is now safe to enter the world of HD optical.

Stop being so logical. That isn't allowed ;)

"He is willing to wait until Heroes is available on Blu-ray"

It may never happen, not only is universal not neutral but there are still no signs of them releasing on BLU-RAY. BLU-RAY is still waiting for Batman Begins and V among about a dozen or so other WB titles and that is from a neutral studio.

There is no reason to sit here and say you need to WAIT WAIT WAIT, when the player is already in the house. No reason to wait when you already have the means to play the disc. I just don't understand that state of mind. I have the player, I want the disc but because of this weeks news or this weeks sales data I'm going to wait for it to appear on another format maybe years down the road? If he or anyone else feels HD-DVD is really dead then sell your player while the getting is good, but to keep it and not use it with Exclusive titles makes no sense at all.

Silly, totally silly

If Universal does go neutral if ever how long after that is it going to take them to re-release every title they have released on HD-DVD? What if they simply skip some titles like WB has done and they never come out?

He already owns the player unless he wants to sell it why not utilize what you already have spent some money on.

But your whole theory is based on Universal going neutral, we know how that turned out at last years CES.

Back in 1997 Enron looked like a safe bet. The moral of the story is when the underlying business model is broken nothing can save it - even if you try to fix the perception for a short term. It's easy to get fooled by perception - you can't make money by losing money. This is a house of cards waiting to come down. PR stunts won't make people adopt BD. Value will. BD can only succeed if it replaces DVD totally since BD unlike HD DVD isn't compatible with DVD production. To me it doesn't seem even remotely possible that BD will touch DVD. I see studios giving up on BD once the market data comes in Q4. HD DVD will be the HD niche format with DVD the mainstream one for the next 3-5 years, with downloads or VOD playing a bigger role after that...

Target basically got Sony to pay rent for a tiny space in some corner of the store. Seeing how much attention these get in BB, I'll be amazed if anayone even knows they are watching anything more than upconverted DVD! We'll see.....

It's good to see another CE manufacturer coming out with a high def player, but $2k is a lot of money. I don't see them selling to many at that price.

It amazes me that anyone in the AVSForum would question the viability of a high-end item like the Denon player.

Are we so used to low-quality music and video downloads for our iPods and such that we've forgotten there is an established market for high-end video and audio components? I have no doubt Denon will do very well with their new Blu-ray player. It's targeted at a very specific demographic, and they know very well how many they can expect to sell.

Besides, $2k is not a lot of dough when compared to a lot of other quality equipment a dedicated AV enthusiast would purchase for their home theater.

I think the Denon player is a great thing for Blu-ray. There will always be those AV lovers who both appreciate and can afford quality craftsmanship, beautiful design, high-end components inside, etc.

This means that now Blu-ray offers an entire line of players to a broad range of consumers, from the basic and affordable to the more luxurious and expensive. They're catering to a wider audience than Toshiba is with their line of budget HD DVD decks.

It is clear now that Blu-ray is the chosen format.

The BDA must be so proud of you.

"It amazes me that anyone in the AVSForum would question the viability of a high-end item like the Denon player."

I see the viability but am really disappointed in the lack of features compared to other Denon DVD players. If the unit had SACD\DVD-A playback and Ethernet I would have sold my Panasonic and gotten the Denon.

All Denon had to do to make me happy was slap in a BD drive and Ethernet in one of their current Universal DVD players and call it good.

There are people taking the red pill that do use their brains.....I give you a lot of credit for admitting that. Seriously......Not an easy thing to admit partial defeat.

Well, considering I literally bought my A1 and BDP-S1 on the same day in November last year, I have never been partisan in this. I don't think I can admit defeat when I was never "battling" in the first place for HD-DVD. :)

All I've ever done is use my sense of logic to evaluate the situation and make purchasing plans accordingly with no particular allegiance to either format.

When I bought my players last November, it certainly looked like HD-DVD had the upper hand in both quality and quantity of releases. As such, I bought a decent amount of the WB and Paramount movies I wanted on HD-DVD.

But once HD-DVD near abandoned releasing in Q1 (and that's exactly what they did), it became apparent to me that they weren't going to be putting up as serious of a fight as in 2006. So ever since January, I switched my buying of all dual format releases to Blu-Ray, which also had the benefit of avoiding the idiotic combo discs for releases like The Departed.

I've never stopped buying HD-DVD's of movies not available on BD, but it's slowing down. To this day my HD-DVD count is higher than Blu-Ray because I bought a ton of movies the first month, but my BD count is creeping up every month. By the time all these major releases hit starting in September (Jack Ryan, Top Gun, Blade Runner, Harry Potter, etc.), there's no doubt my Blu-Ray's will outnumber my HD-DVD's.

my god, seriously, do you really believe that would happen that fast? :cool:

It's not really about that. Like I said, I continue to buy films on the format.

I'm just saying for a ~$65 blind buy on one title, I no longer feel it's a wise expenditure.

Put another way, if I did blind buy it and watch it once, my feeling is by the time I would want to watch the set again (if I liked it), it would almost definitely be late 2008. By then I may not need an HD-DVD player.

I have two HD-DVD players right now, but I have no plans to buy another. I assume these will last me a while since I take care of them, but I don't want to put myself in a position of needing to own one a few years from now because I bought a ton of expensive TV titles that were exclusive to the format. That is one of the reasons I am staying away from the ridiculously priced Star Trek combo release.

"seriously, do you really believe that would happen that fast? "

Even if it did happen that fast it's not like the HD-DVD's or his player will blow up all of a sudden. I have cd's from the mid 80's that still play fine. I can understand buying BLU-RAY versions of titles on both sides but a widely sought after Exclusive title is not worth depriving yourself over just because a bunch of execs couldn't agree to come up with one format.

Seems silly for him to artificially deprive himself when he already has the player to play the discs.

I'll just rent them. If I fall madly in love with the show and I want to watch it every month, I would buy the set. But from what I know of the show, that's probably not going to happen. Remember this would be a blind buy for me.

I should state that as of right now if they still plan to release BSG S1 this fall, there is no way I would not buy it right away, as I love the show.

I guess the point I was trying to make is that HD-DVD's current market position is enough to make me, a supporter of the format, a bit wary on expensive blind buys.

I have seen next to no HD-DVD ads at all outside the internet. The only place I regularly see ads for it are during the pre-trailer commercials at the movies when they run that Michael Imperioli spot. Unfortunately, most people don't seem to be paying attention to it (personal anecdote), and I even heard some yell out once "Blu-Ray is better".

I don't know if Toshiba can't or won't get in the PR game, but perception is reality, and even though the format is technically as good as Blu-Ray, it doesn't matter if Blu-Ray already has people believing it's not.

I see the viability but am really disappointed in the lack of features compared to other Denon DVD players. If the unit had SACD\DVD-A playback and Ethernet I would have sold my Panasonic and gotten the Denon.

All Denon had to do to make me happy was slap in a BD drive and Ethernet in one of their current Universal DVD players and call it good.

I agree, I hate to say this on a Blu-Ray thread but it would have been nice to have had a final spec for Blu-Ray. I can't see buying a $2000 Blu-Ray player that will change in October when BD-Live is finalized. The HD-DVD folks have us on this. Blu-Ray dropped the ball on this.

Don't worry I'm still a Blu-Ray fanboy! Just stating the obvious.

I agree, I hate to say this on a Blu-Ray thread but it would have been nice to have had a final spec for Blu-Ray. I can't see buying a $2000 Blu-Ray player that will change in October when BD-Live is finalized. The HD-DVD folks have us on this. Blu-Ray dropped the ball on this.

I agree with you as well. I have owned Denon products in the past and have been very happy. I would have probably purchased this unit if it implemented the final BD spec. No way would I drop 2k on a player that doesn't implement all that BD can offer. If I were Denon I would delay the player and add the functionality.

I also think it sucks that it took so long to finalize the spec. That had to make it difficult for the manufacturers. Do they wait for the final spec or make money now? I don't envy their position.

I agree, I hate to say this on a Blu-Ray thread but it would have been nice to have had a final spec for Blu-Ray. I can't see buying a $2000 Blu-Ray player that will change in October when BD-Live is finalized. The HD-DVD folks have us on this. Blu-Ray dropped the ball on this.Definitely agree, however many newer players (including PS3) have been speculated that firmware updates will bring their spec up to 1.1/final spec. Standalone players with ethernet connectivity will be quite a handy feature when the spec is finalized and {hopefully} manufacturers release firmware updates.

See post 809 at:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=876174&page=27&pp=30

Beat, is this news worthy?

All I can add to this thread is that the one who wins in the end is the one that appeals to the masses. IMHO, this is going to be decided on the cost of the players and movies...money talks, BS walks!

Also, IMO Target, and Blockbuster for that matter, will only lose out by carrying one player and/or movies as they are in the business of selling. If I own a corner store, I am not going to carry Coke only as I know I will only shoot myself in the foot for not selling Pepsi. This decision on their behalf makes no sense at all.

I went into a Future Shop the other day and noticed that they had quite a few HD DVD players on display and only a couple BDs. Not reading into this, but it make a person wonder whats up? This war as they call it is far from over...as for me I can care less who wins...as long as it doesn't cost me an arm and a leg.

See post 809 at:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=876174&page=27&pp=30

Beat, is this news worthy?

Read the later posts in that thread for an answer.

The “Trojan Horse” :cool: vs the “recall” oops, I mean “Consumer warranty extension” :rolleyes:

http://video.msn.com/v/us/msnbc.htm?g=20d7c5cc-8c04-4d80-8fec-922fc0473476&f=00&fg=copy
( ^ following the advertisement, of course)

Thanks for the freebie NBC ! :)
Ken, do you feel more “pressure” ?

The “Trojan Horse” :cool: vs the “recall” oops, I mean “Consumer warranty extension” :rolleyes:

http://video.msn.com/v/us/msnbc.htm?g=20d7c5cc-8c04-4d80-8fec-922fc0473476&f=00&fg=copy
( ^ following the advertisement, of course)

Thanks for the freebie NBC ! :)
Ken, do you feel more “pressure” ?


Person A "So what is it"
Person B "It's actually a consumer warranty extension"...."which is a fancy name for"
Peson A immediately "recall"
Person B "yes, well....."

lmfao

love the comments on the PS3 and blu-ray as well, thank you MSNBC :D

People don't like having the loser. It's what hastens these type debates to a conclusion...

It's the same during a presidential election, voting for someone who is losing according to your news broadcast...

People see HD DVD as losing, and they are voting with their wallets.

This'll be over faster than you all will imagine.

sorry to disappoint you but million of european have chosen HD dvd... US is not the world!
the world outside is evolving differently and no one can predict whatever. It has been year ago and every day and every week i read about prediction to prediction and nothing happens ..Hd dvd is getting stronger and more and more people is adopting HD dvd.If you prefer BR,so go for it but don't wish the death of other format....Honestly speaking, if there is no competition , HD DVD does not exist, do you think that Sony will make effort to improve their product, to lower their price, to sell cheap their PS3? Why Fifth element has been remastered? because the first release was crap! You know the monopole position would lead to dictatory...and only the customer is in weak position and have to pay! Voilà! ;)

sorry to disappoint you but million of european have chosen HD dvd... US is not the world!
Voilà! ;)

Who are these millions? Show some proof. The state of HD in Europe is nothing. Blu-ray movies outsells HD DVD in pretty much every country in Europe.

The “Trojan Horse” :cool: vs the “recall” oops, I mean “Consumer warranty extension” :rolleyes:

http://video.msn.com/v/us/msnbc.htm?g=20d7c5cc-8c04-4d80-8fec-922fc0473476&f=00&fg=copy
( ^ following the advertisement, of course)

Thanks for the freebie NBC ! :)
Ken, do you feel more “pressure” ?


Wow... Just, wow!

That can mean only one thing: (MS)NBC is one head of the hydra!

sorry to disappoint you but million of european have chosen HD dvd... US is not the world!
the world outside is evolving differently and no one can predict whatever. It has been year ago and every day and every week i read about prediction to prediction and nothing happens ..Hd dvd is getting stronger and more and more people is adopting HD dvd.If you prefer BR,so go for it but don't wish the death of other format....Honestly speaking, if there is no competition , HD DVD does not exist, do you think that Sony will make effort to improve their product, to lower their price, to sell cheap their PS3? Why Fifth element has been remastered? because the first release was crap! You know the monopole position would lead to dictatory...and only the customer is in weak position and have to pay! Voilà! ;)

i dont think most will disagree that the format is the reason BD is where it is at right now. but the format war needs to end so there can be mass adoption. i dunno how the numbers are in europe but bd is clearly the chosen format for hi-def content and also data storage when prices of burners drop more.

and no, having just one format is not dictatory. look at dvd, there was no format war when it was launched. prices of media dropped, prices of players dropped, and all the while quality of tranfers continue to improve.

if hd-dvd is dominating in europe, wouldnt Tartan be hd-dvd exclusive instead of BD?

sorry to disappoint you but million of european have chosen HD dvd... US is not the world! I have not seen any market figures that show HD DVD leading anywhere. I have seen figures for Spain, France, UK, Germany, Australia, and Japan, all of which say Blu-ray is ahead by anywhere from 60:40 to 96:4.
the world outside is evolving differently and no one can predict whatever. It has been year ago and every day and every week i read about prediction to prediction and nothing happensIf you see nothing happening, then you're obviously not reading anything having to do with HD on disc. In the last month alone, HD DVD has lost exclusivity with 3 software companies, while Blu-ray has gained another 6 or 7 software companies as exclusives, including one of the largest DVD distributors in the country and the world. Among those companies are 2 decent-sized EU distributors. Not to mention one of the largest retailers and the largest video rental company. If that's "nothing happening", I feel sorry for HD DVD if anything does happen.
Hd dvd is getting stronger and more and more people is adopting HD dvd.If you prefer BR,so go for it but don't wish the death of other format....Honestly speaking, if there is no competition , HD DVD does not exist, do you think that Sony will make effort to improve their product, to lower their price, to sell cheap their PS3? Why Fifth element has been remastered? because the first release was crap! You know the monopole position would lead to dictatory...and only the customer is in weak position and have to pay! Voilà! ;)Everybody but Warner and Toshiba says that the format war is bad for business and bad for the consumer. Even the consumers themselves are getting frustrated. Then again, it's not surprising that the two companies not complaining (Toshiba and Warner) are also the ones that essentially forced DVD as a format and had the most gain in the money made from DVDs.

Also, IMO Target, and Blockbuster for that matter, will only lose out by carrying one player and/or movies as they are in the business of selling. If I own a corner store, I am not going to carry Coke only as I know I will only shoot myself in the foot for not selling Pepsi. This decision on their behalf makes no sense at all.

Hmm, thats funny, I was under the assumption that Blockbuster set up test stores to test the profitability of renting HD-DVD and Blu-ray discs, and based on their findings have decided to expand their rentals of Blu-ray and not HD-DVD. But why would they do that if HD-DVD would be profitable for them? Hmm, quite the conundrum.


I went into a Future Shop the other day and noticed that they had quite a few HD DVD players on display and only a couple BDs. Not reading into this, but it make a person wonder whats up? This war as they call it is far from over...as for me I can care less who wins...as long as it doesn't cost me an arm and a leg.

I walked into my local Best Buy the other day and found that the ever expanding area for Blu-ray was now 5 shelves wide, while HD-DVD had expanded from 2 to 3. While at the Futureshop in the same shopping centre currently has 3 shelves for Blu-ray and 3 for HD-DVD. Does any of that mean anything? Probably not. Did it make me wonder "whats up"? Not really.

Nice to see Dracula, but if this is a Big Day for Blu Ray...

Well it's certainly better than...

"Star Trek:TOS Season one announced on combo only format for HDdvd for only $217.99 a season!!!!"

Even the die hard Trekkers long used to getting gouged for TREK are pissed...

The “Trojan Horse” :cool: vs the “recall” oops, I mean “Consumer warranty extension” :rolleyes:

http://video.msn.com/v/us/msnbc.htm?g=20d7c5cc-8c04-4d80-8fec-922fc0473476&f=00&fg=copy
( ^ following the advertisement, of course)

Thanks for the freebie NBC ! :)
Ken, do you feel more “pressure” ?

Too funny.

fancy word for "recall"...

List Updated With:

- Optimum Announces Nutrality And Offers Its Films On Blu-ray
http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=358

~Josh

Hmm, thats funny, I was under the assumption that Blockbuster set up test stores to test the profitability of renting HD-DVD and Blu-ray discs, and based on their findings have decided to expand their rentals of Blu-ray and not HD-DVD. But why would they do that if HD-DVD would be profitable for them? Hmm, quite the conundrum.

Yes that is true, but the HD DVD market is growing as is BD...and trust me Blockbuster is watching the market very closely. You don't want to put off your customers to get them to shop at Netflix...they may not come back.

Also, the Futureshop I was talking about, seemed to be really pushing BD a few months ago. This is why I started to wonder.

Who are these millions? Show some proof. The state of HD in Europe is nothing. Blu-ray movies outsells HD DVD in pretty much every country in Europe.
whaow ! you must know better than me! thanks for info! ;) i may misunderstand what all the magazinesare reporting we have over here!
where do you get that? in the bluray forum prediction of Ontario?

I have not seen any market figures that show HD DVD leading anywhere. I have seen figures for Spain, France, UK, Germany, Australia, and Japan, all of which say Blu-ray is ahead by anywhere from 60:40 to 96:4.
If you see nothing happening, then you're obviously not reading anything having to do with HD on disc. In the last month alone, HD DVD has lost exclusivity with 3 software companies, while Blu-ray has gained another 6 or 7 software companies as exclusives, including one of the largest DVD distributors in the country and the world. Among those companies are 2 decent-sized EU distributors. Not to mention one of the largest retailers and the largest video rental company. If that's "nothing happening", I feel sorry for HD DVD if anything does happen.
Everybody but Warner and Toshiba says that the format war is bad for business and bad for the consumer. Even the consumers themselves are getting frustrated. Then again, it's not surprising that the two companies not complaining (Toshiba and Warner) are also the ones that essentially forced DVD as a format and had the most gain in the money made from DVDs.



you know, you have the right to believe what you want...except that each format continues their way and this for long time...every month, every season, you come back in this forum , you still read the same prediction BR will win while ouside there almost every body , aficionados of HD, are owning both formats players and we are enjoying and discussing other subjects about movies , the value added of HD into the theater
regarding figures, i don't know where you gets yours but here is just from one of best site in Europe! enjoy
http://www.axelmusic.com/index_fab.php?fid=38&pid=fmt

In this list of current hi-def best sellers on one of the biggest online DVD retailers in Sweden the top 10 are ALL Blu-ray, what's your point?

http://www.discshop.se/shop/prod_category.php?lang=&cont=chart&genre=hidef&lang=se&subsite=movies&&ref=

The wonders of the internet means it's actually possible to check stats for disc sales in Europe, even if you live in the US you know ;-)

Close Encounters... yeeesss so looking forward to seeing reviews.. better be good...

Yes that is true, but the HD DVD market is growing as is BD...and trust me Blockbuster is watching the market very closely. You don't want to put off your customers to get them to shop at Netflix...they may not come back.

Also, the Futureshop I was talking about, seemed to be really pushing BD a few months ago. This is why I started to wonder.

They tested it, and at this time it is NOT profitable for them to expand their HD-DVD rentals in their stores. What is so hard to understand about that? And why would people get pissed off and go to Netflix? Blockbuster still rents HD-DVD online.

Close Encounters... yeeesss so looking forward to seeing reviews.. better be good...

Supposedly Spielberg approved the transfers!!!
(HTF info...)
;)

And why would people get pissed off and go to Netflix? Blockbuster still rents HD-DVD online.

Usually what I do when a store I'm shopping at tells me to go home, open up a browser and order from their website I'll do just two-thirds of what they have suggested.

The last third is that I use a different website.