as long as the HD media selling 50% to 100% of SD media.

No matter who has the first 199 player, as long as the media price remain high, the adoption is going to be slow. If people thinking a $199 player will push HD to mainstream, they may be disappointed. People not just look at the one time cost (the HD player) they also look at the price,especially in B&M they usually has full price. compare a $30 or more HD to 20 or less SD. It is hard for them to get into HD

Studio and CE invested a lot of money in HD(R&D, marketing), i dont think they going to lower the price to SD price in one or two years. what benefit do they have if HD price match SD? Sure people will adopt HD but their profit remain the same.

I think studios want to end this war as soon as possible not because they want to replace DVD but increase the HD media sales in higher price.

I totally disagree. $199 will get you into the game and allow you to buy Day and Date releases for roughly the same as a regular DVD (Combos excluded.)

I agree that catalog titles need to come down in price, but right now it's the price to pay for HD glory for your favorite movies. It won't deter everyone.

Well I picked up Troy/Unforgiven/A Scanner Darkly for $12 each. So the deals are starting to come but I do agree...I wince when I see $30 movies.

An independent survey showed that 70% of the people surveyed would buy a high-def movie player once they got to $199. Price does matter, big time.

Anyone with a DVD player will be able to watch Spiderman 3 this holiday season. Is seeing it clearer worth $400-$500 to most people? I don’t think so. Also note that 75%+ of the TVs sold today still are only 720p/1080i.

An independent survey showed that 70% of the people surveyed would buy a high-def movie player once they got to $199. Price does matter, big time.

Anyone with a DVD player will be able to watch Spiderman 3 this holiday season. Is seeing it clearer worth $400-$500 to most people? I don’t think so. Also note that 75%+ of the TVs sold today still are only 720p/1080i.
and don't forget about the upgrade in sound, that most cannot take advantage of because they either use the TV speakers, or they paid $3000 for a Bose system

Also note that 75%+ of the TVs sold today still are only 720p/1080i.

Isn't that a good reason for high-def media? HD sets and all...

Not to mention it offers excellent upconverting of your original DVDs. So, even buyers for a new DVD player might be tempted to get one.

$199 will matter, but only to those with HD Displays. Fact is, many will not upgrade their TV even if it where to die today. They would just go out and buy another 4:3 SD TV. Sad, but true. So to over half the population. The price $ wont matter, they cant benefit anyway.

and don't forget about the upgrade in sound, that most cannot take advantage of because they either use the TV speakers, or they paid $3000 for a Bose system

True, it is very expensive to set up a good sound system. Money and expertise, all the wire and speaker. and compare to visual, sound format is even confusing.
FYI. I still use a pair of speak that connect to a cheap Yamaha receiver. Please dont laugh. :eek:

I would change the title slightly

$199 is only 1/2 the battle.

It will get you the player, but agree 100% on the media cost. I'd say at most folks would pay a couple bucks more..........maybe.

I honestly was going to wait until the fall to decide, but seeing a refurbished HD-A1 for $ 175 made me jump on it now.

I'm slowly buying HD-DVD titles and selling the SD DVDs.

I have never paid more than $ 21 for an HD-DVD and never will.

Deals can be found, you just have to know where to look.

But the HD-DVD supporting studios need to not be charging more
than the Blu counterparts (blu discs being 5-7 dollars cheaper than hd-dvd)

Hardware proliferation will bring down the software cost at some point just like sd dvd. So totally disagree.

$199 matters a LOT more than $499 to $599. Especially when SD DVD will look better on either of them as well...

Anyone with a DVD player will be able to watch Spiderman 3 this holiday season. Is seeing it clearer worth $400-$500 to most people? I don’t think so. Also note that 75%+ of the TVs sold today still are only 720p/1080i.

Do you have a source for the 75% of HDTVs that are 720p/1080i? Obviously it makes sense that the majority of HDTVs are non-1080p HDTVs, but I've never seen any hard statistics.

As long as there is a format war there will be resistance to adoption.

People are reluctant to get into a new format in the presence of a format war. Even if the prices of the player is cheap, they know that ongoing "maintenance" including buying disks and new machines can become expensive and a long term committment.

I have known any number of people to go through the heartache and hassle of dealing with all of the disks/tapes they have for an obsolete format.

My guess is that CE manufacturers would sell more players at $299 without the format war than they will at $199 with the format war in place.

We might note that Toshiba has had two price drops in the past few months on their A2, which is now MSRP at 299 and 238 at Amazon, not that far from 199. There is no evidence that "70%" of the consumers are now buying HD DVD!

We must shut down the format war.

An independent survey showed that 70% of the people surveyed would buy a high-def movie player once they got to $199.

Could you provide a link for this?

Did the survey condition on the fact that the player's format may end up being the Betamax of the decade? Did it condition on the fact that your local rental store may not be carrying (and may not ever carry) this particular format? Or did they just say 'a high def movie player'?

Actually you say the pricing is not going to drop down to SD pricing, I picked up BD Ghost Rider today for $24.88, just a few bucks more than the SD disc at $19.98..

I just spent $119 picking up 7 SACD's I wanted from Amazon through Caiman.com
Roughly $17 each with shipping included. You can't beat that.

I certainly think that with all the HDTVs out there now and with the number doubling almost every year that people will not hesistate to spend $199 on an HD player within the coming two to three years, providing the only option is Blu-ray.

As long as there is a format war there will be resistance to adoption.
We must shut down the format war.

I completely agree. As long as HD DVD is a niche in the corner of a few stores and Blu-ray is well represented, consumers will feel comfortable buying in and we'll all be rewarded with more and better HD content.

i dont think they going to lower the price to SD price in one or two years. what benefit do they have if HD price match SD? Sure people will adopt HD but their profit remain the same.
I don't think the goal of the studios in providing Hd content was/is about you getting a higher quality image and making more profit, but rather to move everyone into a DRM world so they can regain the control they lost when the DVD content protection was broken and ultimately a Pay per Play model. HD is just the carrot. So from that perspective, as long as their profit from HD remains the same as from DVD, and people move to HD, their real goal has been achieved.

I completely agree. As long as HD DVD is a niche in the corner of a few stores and Blu-ray is well represented, consumers will feel comfortable buying in and we'll all be rewarded with more and better HD content.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I say that because I don't see HD DVD suddenly disappearing altogether. Look how long you could still buy Betamax for after VHS was the winner, after even Sony released a VHS.

I too think that you'll be able to buy an HD DVD player and/or HD DVD discs for several years to come like you can with other niche formats. I think Blu-ray will be mainstream.

I don't think the goal of the studios in providing Hd content was/is about you getting a higher quality image and making more profit, but rather to move everyone into a DRM world so they can regain the control they lost when the DVD content protection was broken and ultimately a Pay per Play model. HD is just the carrot.EXACTLY!!! and that is why I'm against BD, I'm not interested in being controlled!!

I say that because I don't see HD DVD suddenly disappearing altogether. Look how long you could still buy Betamax for after VHS was the winner, after even Sony released a VHS.

I too think that you'll be able to buy an HD DVD player and/or HD DVD discs for several years to come like you can with other niche formats. I think Blu-ray will be mainstream.
I'll be sure to write that down, nostradamus

Judging by Toshiba's recent surge in stand-alone sales, I am going to have to say the market disagrees with that. $199 price-points will be a huge factor in people's buying decisions.

I don't think its even necessary to qualify that statement with further explanation. High school economics 101, my friend.

I certainly think that with all the HDTVs out there now and with the number doubling almost every year that people will not hesistate to spend $199 on an HD player within the coming two to three years, providing the only option is Blu-ray.
Or
In two or three years the iTV & ZuneTube @ $149 w/ HDLite downloads take off. Nothing Americans like better than "click & go" convenience.

I'll be sure to write that down, nostradamus

I am not predicting, I am saying "I think" whereas Nostradamus prophesied.

There is a big difference.

I say that because I don't see HD DVD suddenly disappearing altogether. Look how long you could still buy Betamax for after VHS was the winner, after even Sony released a VHS.

I too think that you'll be able to buy an HD DVD player and/or HD DVD discs for several years to come like you can with other niche formats. I think Blu-ray will be mainstream.

It depend on how many HD DVD base. if is too small, studio may not support them. let say the "war" end today , universal annouce to release movie in Blu ray. HD DVD base is 500K ? why a studio bother to support it? that base will not increase, but will decrease gradually. It is all about when the war end. if the base has few millions, the losing format may last much longer

I totally disagree. $199 will get you into the game and allow you to buy Day and Date releases for roughly the same as a regular DVD (Combos excluded.)

I agree that catalog titles need to come down in price, but right now it's the price to pay for HD glory for your favorite movies. It won't deter everyone.

you forgot a detail.... no day and date releases from SONY, MGM, COLUMBIA, LIONSGATE, 20th CENTURY FOX, DISNEY, ETC ETC ETC

that kinda stings doesn't it? its like buying a car that can't drive south, east, or west.

I would change the title slightly

$199 is only 1/2 the battle.

It will get you the player, but agree 100% on the media cost. I'd say at most folks would pay a couple bucks more..........maybe.

Very true because when people go into b&m stores they usually don't find out about the relatively higher priced hd discs until after the salesperson gives them the pitch to buy the player. Then they become selective about what discs to buy because of the difference of cost between sd's and hd's.

While a MSRP price of $199 is important, of equal importance is the pricing of the discs. They are just too damn much money. They need to be priced like DVDs with new releases on sale at introduction at $14.99. Until that happens, they will both be niche products. All need to be day and date releasses with DVD also as few consumers will purchase HD discs when they already have the DVD. I think that is VERY clear at this point.

Very true because when people go into b&m stores they usually don't find out about the relatively higher priced hd discs until after the salesperson gives them the pitch to buy the player. Then they become selective about what discs to buy because of the difference of cost between sd's and hd's.

and don't forget their 1st 5 movies are currently free ,so they buy a couple and wait for their 5

It depend on how many HD DVD base. if is too small, studio may not support them. let say the "war" end today , universal annouce to release movie in Blu ray. HD DVD base is 500K ? why a studio bother to support it? that base will not increase, but will decrease gradually. It is all about when the war end. if the base has few millions, the losing format may last much longer

That is true.

SACD has something like 13 million players on market though and not many studios are supporting it.

If there were a $199 blu ray player I would be format neutral in a heart beat.

I don't believe there is a "magic" number. Everything is relative. If HD-DVD is asking $199.00, and Blu-ray is 219.00 (this example is a proof of concept), people will choose Blu-ray. My reasoning is that currently HD-DVD is selling for 200 or more dollars less than Blu-ray but stand alones are still only outselling Blu-ray stand alones by something like 55% to 45% (please correct me if I'm wrong here). And this is not counting the PS3. If the PS3 vanished as an option for new Blu-ray buyers I don't think that it is too controversial to say that Blu-ray would be winning in stand alone sales by a significant margin even at twice the price (I'm sure some will contest this anyway). Price is important, but people are clearly still heavily valuing other factors. The question isn't going to be "what the price is" so much as "what is the difference in price between the two and what am I getting for my money".

You need a player to see HD movies. But you do not have to buy movies to see movies in HD. You can rent them from BBI and NF. Both carry HD DVD/BRD

The trend of renting is up over 30% for DVD's as opposed to buying which is flat. At $199 are we seliing to BRD owners who want to be neutral? Yes. We are also selling to DVD owners to upgrade their PQ to go along with their new HDTV.

EXACTLY!!! and that is why I'm against BD, I'm not interested in being controlled!!

Well, studios want it so we just as well get used to it. As long as HD DVD does not provide it, it will not get those studio's who want it support. That is how it is whether we like it or not.

Well, studios want it so we just as well get used to it. As long as HD DVD does not provide it, it will not get those studio's who want it support. That is how it is whether we like it or not.
and they wanted it for DVD too, that's where the original statement that I quoted was getting to.
The studios are pulling a "my way or the highway" mentality. That may be cool with you, but I'm not into ultimatums

I believe the PS3 lowered its price by $100 dollars recently, (or at least that was the perception). Some folks claim that had a big effect on sales.

and they wanted it for DVD too, that's where the original statement that I quoted was getting to.
The studios are pulling a "my way or the highway" mentality. That may be cool with you, but I'm not into ultimatums

Same here. They can kick rocks. I still have access to your DVDs which I can rip and bend them to my matrixy will. And hell they won't look that bad either.

Eventually the studios will capitulate as they have wall street to contend with and frankly my money sitting in the bank works for me so there's no harm in a bit of patience.

$199 will matter, but only to those with HD Displays. Fact is, many will not upgrade their TV even if it where to die today. They would just go out and buy another 4:3 SD TV. Sad, but true. So to over half the population. The price $ wont matter, they cant benefit anyway.

I don't think you can find a SD 4:3 bigger than 27" these days.

$199 does not matter if discs are too expensive. I've purchased 2 discs since getting the A2, and I've gone to CC twice to purchase another and have left each time without buying. I paid a premium for LaserDiscs years ago, but I haven't paid more than $20 for a movie in years, and it's now hard to justify paying current retail prices.

By the way, the biggest turnoff in browsing the HD DVD shelves was the combo discs. I have no problem with the concept, but if I want an HD movie on a combo, I'm forced to pay more for it to get SD? Whose brilliant idea was that? Priced equal to HD, it's a deal. Priced at a premium, it's idiocy.

I'm so confused. Forum members, help me out, because I don't understand this format war.

It wouldn't matter if it cost $No.99. It still won't play *any* movies from Sony/Columbia Pictures, Fox, Disney/Touchstone/Mirimax/Dimension, MGM, Lionsgate, Anchor Bay and a few other studios.

I know some of you are enthusiastic HD-DVD supporters and I mean you no disrespect, but how does your format overcome that?

Are you thinking that low-cost players will sell in such large numbers that those studios will release movies on HD-DVD or something?

Are you thinking that low-cost players will sell in such large numbers that those studios will release movies on HD-DVD or something?

That would be the hope, just as BD success is the hope for getting Universal over. It makes sense, doesn't it?

I don't think you can find a SD 4:3 bigger than 27" these days.


Walmart is still carrying 32" SD 4:3 RCA,Sanyo and some off brand. they also have a 30'" Sanyo SD 16:9 set. All were under $300.

I don't think you can find a SD 4:3 bigger than 27" these days.


In most stores? No. However, online or order through stores such as BB, you can. Sometimes they get larger than 27" in, but its mostly for a special sale or to clear stock.

I'm so confused. Forum members, help me out, because I don't understand this format war.

It wouldn't matter if it cost $No.99. It still won't play *any* movies from Sony/Columbia Pictures, Fox, Disney/Touchstone/Mirimax/Dimension, MGM, Lionsgate, Anchor Bay and a few other studios.

I know some of you are enthusiastic HD-DVD supporters and I mean you no disrespect, but how does your format overcome that?

Are you thinking that low-cost players will sell in such large numbers that those studios will release movies on HD-DVD or something?

True to a point. Alot of those "exclusive" titles for BD are available via import for HD-DVD. Now I dont think anyone will buy every title that way, but they may get one they really like alot. Not to mention with all those studios on the BD side, the number of titles for both sides is almost even. So right now, all those studios are not releasing many titles. Once they are actually on the shelf. Will it matter to consumers.

I'm so confused. Forum members, help me out, because I don't understand this format war.

It wouldn't matter if it cost $No.99. It still won't play *any* movies from Sony/Columbia Pictures, Fox, Disney/Touchstone/Mirimax/Dimension, MGM, Lionsgate, Anchor Bay and a few other studios.

I know some of you are enthusiastic HD-DVD supporters and I mean you no disrespect, but how does your format overcome that?

Are you thinking that low-cost players will sell in such large numbers that those studios will release movies on HD-DVD or something?

RED - Very simple - sell a ton of players - the software sales increase to 50/50 (only 11 to 15% increase needed) - those studios that are exclusive to BRD decide that HD DVD did not die and they can make more money selling two formats as opposed to one.

About 4 months to "black friday"

and they wanted it for DVD too, that's where the original statement that I quoted was getting to.
The studios are pulling a "my way or the highway" mentality. That may be cool with you, but I'm not into ultimatums


Dude, no offense but this "I do not want to be controlled" mentality is kind of funny to me.

In the end, the money behind the studios is going to win out and I'm not sure that it should be any other way.

Why do you think it's your right to copy things for free? I'm just a capitalist myself and I kind of see your point but what investment do you have in any of this?

True, the record companies, movie companies have been gouging consumers for years but if the price of these things got so high nobody would buy them right?

So as much as they would love to charge $30 for a CD or movie, it probably isn't going to happen because the mainstream person isn't going to play.

In the longrun, the copy protection on movies and probably music is going to be a reality so why fight it?

You should be deciding on the technology and not whether or not you can copy it for free. I think that kind of thinking is just wrong.

Yes, I've downloaded music for free and burned CD's but I've also bought CD's because of music that I got for free. It all evens out.

If it's a great product at a reasonable price then I'll play and if not, then I won't. BTW, I own neither a HD DVD or BD player at the moment but will before the end of the year. My 2 cents and remember, it's only MY opinion.

LB

I think $199 is huge. I currently have a 720p front projector that I use to watch SD DVD's and OTA HDTV. You better believe that I think SD DVD's are lacking on a 102" screen and want to upgrade to HD Media. That said, I haven't really considered the move until players started to hit $199 recently. Now I am trying to decide if HD DVD will have some lasting power.

In closing, $199 is huge, but the uncertainty of the format war rages on, perhaps trumping the price advantage.

As long as there is a format war there will be resistance to adoption.

So claims a nervous supporter. Why can't you simply buy a player and a disk and enjoy it? Why do people fret over their tiny investments?

I guess some folks are afraid of failure and harp about the formats available.

According to my son who works at BestBuy, they get in 3-5 HD DVD players a week and are sold out in a few days. They are constantly out of stock. They only order 1 or 2 Blu players every 2 weeks. According to their store (Mid-west US) they sell 4 or 5 to 1 depending on the week. People complain ALL the time about the price and usually only buy the cheap HD player ... they don't seem to care about red or blue.

Price matters to the large population and it is showing in stand alone players. The PS3 is not the movie player that goes in mom and pops equiment stand. They don't want a game controller, dongle or USB plug in remote. Waste of money and hardware. They want the traditional deck and the price makes it a no brainer for most.

Let's see how sales progress this fall. Blu needs a major price cut to compete on stand alones. The PS3 is NOT going to get them there.

I think $199 is huge. I currently have a 720p front projector that I use to watch SD DVD's and OTA HDTV. You better believe that I think SD DVD's are lacking on a 102" screen and want to upgrade to HD Media. That said, I haven't really considered the move until players started to hit $199 recently. Now I am trying to decide if HD DVD will have some lasting power.

In closing, $199 is huge, the uncertainty of the format war rages on, perhaps trumping the price advantage.


I had a couple of 720p projectors for a 119" diagonal screen. HD-A1 here and it is unbelievable. I paid $499 week number 2 after launch. Trust me, for $199 you will never regret the HD-A2. Even our SD-DVD collection found new life. The old Denon 480p player is in storage.

Now using 1080p projector but the InFocus IN76 (720p) was one great image at 1080i.

k

In follow-up to my previous post: The fact that I plan on purchasing NFL Sunday Ticket/Superfan is probably more of the reason for my reluctance to purchase the $199 than the format war. The price of NFL Sunday Ticket/Superfan with my recent projector purchase is steep in the eyes of me wife.

With all that considered, where do you think I am more likely to convince my wife, HD DVD or BR? It matters to her since DVD and HDM are all the same. $199 is the answer by the way.

as long as the HD media selling 50% to 100% of SD media.

No matter who has the first 199 player, as long as the media price remain high, the adoption is going to be slow. If people thinking a $199 player will push HD to mainstream, they may be disappointed. People not just look at the one time cost (the HD player) they also look at the price,especially in B&M they usually has full price. compare a $30 or more HD to 20 or less SD. It is hard for them to get into HD

Studio and CE invested a lot of money in HD(R&D, marketing), i dont think they going to lower the price to SD price in one or two years. what benefit do they have if HD price match SD? Sure people will adopt HD but their profit remain the same.

I think studios want to end this war as soon as possible not because they want to replace DVD but increase the HD media sales in higher price.

Actually, as we get enough of both format's hardware connected to HDTV households the studios will be forced to go neutral and HD optical disc prices will fall as well.

-Robert

In follow-up to my previous post: The fact that I plan on purchasing NFL Sunday Ticket/Superfan is probably more of the reason for my reluctance to purchase the $199 than the format war. The price of NFL Sunday Ticket/Superfan with my recent projector purchase is steep in the eyes of me wife.

With all that considered, where do you think I am more likely to convince my wife, HD DVD or BR? It matters to her since DVD and HDM are all the same. $199 is the answer by the way.
An open question is : Do you have children?

If you answer "Yes", said wife will be very unhappy with you when your $199 player won't play a Disney movie.

as long as the HD media selling 50% to 100% of SD media.

No matter who has the first 199 player, as long as the media price remain high, the adoption is going to be slow. If people thinking a $199 player will push HD to mainstream, they may be disappointed. People not just look at the one time cost (the HD player) they also look at the price,especially in B&M they usually has full price. compare a $30 or more HD to 20 or less SD. It is hard for them to get into HD

Studio and CE invested a lot of money in HD(R&D, marketing), i dont think they going to lower the price to SD price in one or two years. what benefit do they have if HD price match SD? Sure people will adopt HD but their profit remain the same.

I think studios want to end this war as soon as possible not because they want to replace DVD but increase the HD media sales in higher price.

VE sold more than 400 units of HD A2s in 36 hours at that price. Go figure. :eek:

An open question is : Do you have children?

If you answer "Yes", said wife will be very unhappy with you when your $199 player won't play a Disney movie.

Children? Yes, three of them and they are hairy (dogs). :D (Open or not, I had to)

Actually, as we get enough of both format's hardware connected to HDTV households the studios will be forced to go neutral and HD optical disc prices will fall as well.

-Robert

Robert - they won't believe you, but I do. Something about up a rope. Or was it into the wind. I can't remember. :rolleyes:

That would be the hope, just as BD success is the hope for getting Universal over. It makes sense, doesn't it?

One studio switch is easier than 4 , 5 studio switch , dont you agree?

One studio switch is easier than 4 , 5 studio switch , dont you agree?

No. The effort would be roughly the same for all studios involved. They don't share the load so the costs should be relatively similar.

One studio switch is easier than 4 , 5 studio switch , dont you agree?

Well if you consider the likeliness of any one of the few BD exclusive studios becoming neutral before Universal does, you are very likely wrong. In fact, I would takes bets on this and give you pretty good odds.

-Robert

An open question is : Do you have children?

If you answer "Yes", said wife will be very unhappy with you when your $199 player won't play a Disney movie.Why won't it play Disney movies? :confused:

An open question is : Do you have children?

If you answer "Yes", said wife will be very unhappy with you when your $199 player won't play a Disney movie.

My daughter uses the HD-A1 to play all kinds of Disney movies. I support 2 formats, HD DVD and SD DVD. I am 100% covered and can wait out any studio that wants to sell me content.

My daughter uses the HD-A1 to play all kinds of Disney movies. I support 2 formats, HD DVD and SD DVD.

And I'd be willing to bet that your daughter, as with mine, really could give two hoots about High Definition Disney movies.

Sorry, it matters quite a bit. $99 matters even more.

And I'd be willing to bet that your daughter, as with mine, really could give two hoots about High Definition Disney movies.

High definition? They just had me hook up the VCR again because they weren't able to watch the old Winnie the Pooh tapes. When there's a kids' movie that has 4:3 on one side and widescreen on the other, as often as not, they play the wrong side.

Actually, I'd be wasting my money buying HD media for the kids that can't be played in the car or on our computers.

Actually, as we get enough of both format's hardware connected to HDTV households the studios will be forced to go neutral and HD optical disc prices will fall as well.

-Robert

No the studios will not be forced to go neutral.
As long as there is one CE and one major studio supporting HD DVD exclusively and several studios and several CE's supporting Blu-ray exclusively by the time the attach rate of standalones comes even close to 10% of the millions and millions of HDTV sets in North America this format war will have exacted the picture that has already been clear for several months, HD DVD will be a niche format and Blu-ray will be mass market adopted.
That won't play out for another few years, but it will play out; it's inevitable.

Why won't it play Disney movies? :confused:

You're confused? Let me explain: what he meant was that it will not play Disney movies that are natively 1080p.

You're confused? Let me explain: what he meant was that it will not play Disney movies that are natively 1080p.
Thanks, I don't think my kids care about that, though.

I'll be sure to write that down, nostradamus

alfpha: Doby is a Panasonic Canada employee, what would you expect him to say?

An open question is : Do you have children?

If you answer "Yes", said wife will be very unhappy with you when your $199 player won't play a Disney movie.
Not nearly as unhappy as she'll be when said Disney movie only works in ONE of the six available players. The noise heard from the kids will certainly anger her

"why CAN'T I play it in my room......I don't WANT to play it downstairs, I WANT to watch it in MY room"

"WHY can't we bring PoTC III in the car?

Not nearly as unhappy as she'll be when said Disney movie only works in ONE of the six available players. The noise heard from the kids will certainly anger her

"why CAN'T I play it in my room......I don't WANT to play it downstairs, I WANT to watch it in MY room"

"WHY can't we bring PoTC III in the car?

You threw that right back at them! Excellent point.

$199 and 5 free movies WILL move a lot of players no doubt...But software prices has to come down quite a bit to get the masses to bite. ;)

You threw that right back at them! Excellent point.
Sorry :D but it's not at "them". It's an issue both sides need to address - IMHO.

HD DVD has the combo discs, but they're expensive. BD has nothing. When the avg consumer parents go to the store to pick up the latest kids movie what will they buy? The $35 combo or the BD that only works in one player?

Answer - neither, they'll buy the cheaper DVD that works in every player.

Now I'm sure I'll hear the "but my kids LOVE the full 1080p glory....." spiel which doesn't apply to the avg consumer, the same consumer who's kids happily watch movies on a 7" LCD in the back seat.

My position is that the "war" is against DVD & downloads - both sides have issues to address unless they want HDM to go the way of the do-do bird.

An open question is : Do you have children?

If you answer "Yes", said wife will be very unhappy with you when your $199 player won't play a Disney movie. :confused:

alfpha: Doby is a Panasonic Canada employee, what would you expect him to say?


Ahh, so he is yet ANOTHER one on here with an agenda. There is also a Lionsgate employee on here that posts a ton for his format as well without declaring his biases.

Sorry :D but it's not at "them". It's an issue both sides need to address - IMHO.

HD DVD has the combo discs, but they're expensive. BD has nothing. When the avg consumer parents go to the store to pick up the latest kids movie what will they buy? The $35 combo or the BD that only works in one player?

Answer - neither, they'll buy the cheaper DVD that works in every player.


This is why the battle that goes on here is so senseless when it comes to mass adoption. DVDs play everywhere, and until there are HD players everywhere OR someone decides to somehow package both SD DVD together with HD versions at or near SD prices, we will not go beyond niche in comparison the DVD.

Disney is largely irrelevant as far as their kids' movies go because of this. Maybe that's part of the reason they're not lighting up the release calendar. The HD media market is markedly different from the SD market. A glance at the Top 10 lists for each of the 3 formats makes that very clear.

I honestly don't get the DVD issue. I know for a fact the studios have no intention whatsoever of seeing HDM even come close to DVD this year, or next, or the following...and have a rather long term outlook on transitioning the formats.

So why do so many people think this is such a problem? I've seen the internal projections of a couple of the studios, and they are not of the form of HDM domination in a couple years. This is a long term transition, and as far as I can tell, has always been considered one. Reason enough I think the DVD-HDM battle is a complete aside at the moment, because too many people are heaping absolutely unrealistic expectations of not only how they think the format war should be moving, but what they believe the studios think HDM should be doing. While it's clear HDM is moving at a bit of a slower pace than expected, the virtual explosion that some people think was planned...wasn't.

So why do so many people think this is such a problem?
Because some think that they may not have the luxury of such a long term adoption. We live in the age of iTunes & MP3s. And some of us would hate for a DVD - > download transition instead of a DVD -> HDM transition.

An independent survey showed that 70% of the people surveyed would buy a high-def movie player once they got to $199. Price does matter, big time.

Anyone with a DVD player will be able to watch Spiderman 3 this holiday season. Is seeing it clearer worth $400-$500 to most people? I don’t think so. Also note that 75%+ of the TVs sold today still are only 720p/1080i.

A $199 BD player would be a big deal, I doubt a HD-DVD player at that price is significant, a dead format isn't a bargain at any price.

A $199 BD player would be a big deal, I doubt a HD-DVD player at that price is significant, a dead format isn't a bargain at any price.nice potshot (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=877826)

For how much longer do we have to keep up the pretence there actually is a format war?

We're now at the stage were some HD-DVD owners are arguing SD content, on their HD-DVD players, satisfies their needs, give me a break.

The logical progression of this discussion is that all SD content is sufficient.

SD and HD have their place, lets not go down the route of supplementing HD-DVD with SD when their's a HD format with the movies you want.

Ahh, so he is yet ANOTHER one on here with an agenda. There is also a Lionsgate employee on here that posts a ton for his format as well without declaring his biases.

Actually I am in the POS division and have nothing to do with Blu-ray. Most of my work is done around bars and restaurants programming menus on Panasonic workstations like the JS-750WS and JS-550WS.

I have an easier time getting inside information about Pioneer and Warner than I do finding out anything at all about Panasonic's products, which is why no-one ever asks me for info about Panasonic.

I can also get Panasonic equipment cheaper from Amazon.com than I can from Panasonic Canada. :(

My cost on the new 1080p 50" Viera Plasma? CDN$3499
Amazon's current price on same telly? US$2449

Current exchange rate? US$2449 = CDN$2551

It's certainly not a secret though, nor do I have an agenda or get paid to post here. I've always been forthcoming about the company I work for.

SD and HD have their place, lets not go down the route of supplementing HD-DVD with SD when their's a HD format with the movies you want.
Of note -

their's = possessive, it conveys ownership
there's = contraction, mean there is

So far there is not a format that has the movies I want. One format has 15 on my list, the other has 2.

alfpha: Doby is a Panasonic Canada employee, what would you expect him to say?

You know that we don't live in Orwellian times and I can have my own opinion right?

If I wasn't allowed to I'd always be dissing SACD and talking up DVD-Audio, however I have long believed that SACD is the best format for music and wish that Panasonic would make a blu-ray player with DTS-MA, DVD-A and SACD capabilities.

Until they do I'll never own a Panasonic Blu-ray player. Currently my equipment is all Pioneer and Paradigm.

For how much longer do we have to keep up the pretence there actually is a format war?



Until there's no longer a format war, I guess. I know that some would like to pretend that selling 61% of the disc last week makes this a done deal, but other people are a little more skeptical. I mean 61% is better than 50%, but it's not 80% or 90%. It's just a little better than half.

Until there's no longer a format war, I guess. I know that some would like to pretend that selling 61% of the disc last week makes this a done deal, but other people are a little more skeptical. I mean 61% is better than 50%, but it's not 80% or 90%. It's just a little better than half.

This is something I really don't understand. Maybe you can help me. I keep hearing the words "market share" yet no one is giving any information as to what the size of the whole market is. In a new format, aren't we constantly getting new people involved (hopefully). Doesn't the market keep changing as far as it's size?

Isn't "market share" commonly used for a mature market where the boundaries have been defined a while ago?

?

I honestly don't get the DVD issue. I know for a fact the studios have no intention whatsoever of seeing HDM even come close to DVD this year, or next, or the following...and have a rather long term outlook on transitioning the formats.

So why do so many people think this is such a problem? I've seen the internal projections of a couple of the studios, and they are not of the form of HDM domination in a couple years. This is a long term transition, and as far as I can tell, has always been considered one. Reason enough I think the DVD-HDM battle is a complete aside at the moment, because too many people are heaping absolutely unrealistic expectations of not only how they think the format war should be moving, but what they believe the studios think HDM should be doing. While it's clear HDM is moving at a bit of a slower pace than expected, the virtual explosion that some people think was planned...wasn't.

I don't disagree with your points, however, in order for a transition to happen, there has to be a transitionary phase. Cheap hardware, where every SD DVD player purchase is a multi format DVD player with HD DVD and/or BD support will be ubiquitous when the transition nears its end. As far as I can tell, we are nowhere near that.

I only bring this up because so many around here are declaring the format war over when it's hard for the general consumer to even notice that it has started.

Toshiba being 199$ is great for the consumers as it will drive Blu-Ray players to that price point that much faster. Toshiba does have one problem: who exactly is selling their 199$ players? The average joe6pack doesnt shop online and isnt on avsforum so when they walk in to Best Buy, Circuit City, Wallmart, Target and BlockBuster... which format/players is joe6pack going to see?

Toshiba being at 199$ will kill any interest for the Chinese to produce a 199$ player... what's the point... to compete against Toshiba?

I think there is a good chance we will see a 199-299$ Chinese Blu-Ray player in Wallmart by years end (one that will be profitable for Wallmart to sell) and that like they say, will be that.

Toshiba does have one problem: who exactly is selling their 199$ players?

Best Buy and Circuit City are prominently displaying the A2 and HD DVD media. Haven't seen an HD player of either stripe in WalMart and Target (BD for holidays) around here. Target has equal amounts of HD media, while local WalMart has none...

The average joe6pack doesnt shop online and isnt on avsforum so when they walk in to Best Buy, Circuit City, Wallmart, Target and BlockBuster... which format/players is joe6pack going to see?
Huh? Then how exactly do the Amazons, Buy.coms, Neweggs, etc stay in business? IIRC Amazon's revenue was 2.88 billion...............yeah, that's a B.

Everyone shops online - the % of their purchases may vary, but they shop online.

And there are many factors why price DOES matter - not the least of which is that the economy is heading into the dumper. This will affect sales, I'd be willing to bet retailers will have the worst holiday season in a decade or more.

I support 2 formats, HD DVD and SD DVD. I am 100% covered and can wait out any studio that wants to sell me content.

I like (and live) by your logic kevivoe-meister. That said a $199 BD player would turn me neutral faster than a Swiss tourist at UN headquarters. :)

The average joe6pack doesnt shop online and isnt on avsforum so when they walk in to Best Buy, Circuit City, Wallmart, Target and BlockBuster... which format/players is joe6pack going to see?

The internet sales format is doing extremely well for so few customers. :rolleyes:

CircuityCity has the A2 for $239 on their website.

Not nearly as unhappy as she'll be when said Disney movie only works in ONE of the six available players. The noise heard from the kids will certainly anger her

"why CAN'T I play it in my room......I don't WANT to play it downstairs, I WANT to watch it in MY room"

"WHY can't we bring PoTC III in the car?
That's what standard DVDs are for, at least for the forseeable future (and that point goes towards both formats).

Not having the option to buy the high definition version, though, is a serious minus.

"Oh but the combo!"?

Yes, I'm so very sure you'd let your child handle your $30+ combo disc if you had a choice. :p

That's what standard DVDs are for, at least for the forseeable future (and that point goes towards both formats).

Not having the option to buy the high definition version, though, is a serious minus.

"Oh but the combo!"?

Yes, I'm so very sure you'd let your child handle your $30+ combo disc if you had a choice. :p
So what you're saying is that the consumer will swallow having to buy two copies of a given title? Yeah, that will fly....................not..............just as the combos don't (given the current cost).

Or just buying the DVD version of movies that will be played throughout the house - which negates the advantage of certain content (what % of Disney flicks will be "one player only")

I agree, it's an issue for both sides.

I m eagarly watching this format war....although I have decided not to jump in still.

I dont know which format will survive. I dont have a lot of money to put in this war....plus my only HDTV is in bedroom...so no 5.1 audio set up there.

The price is another huge factor.....Offcourse 199 price point will help....but that was the same price of 360 add on...& it didnt sell like even a million. Its the movies...that r more expensive. When they will come down to 20..plus cheaper hardware....maybe I can pick up a next gen player

For me it's not the cost, its the selection of movies. The movies that I care the most about have not yet been released onto either format.

That's what standard DVDs are for, at least for the forseeable future (and that point goes towards both formats).

Not having the option to buy the high definition version, though, is a serious minus.

"Oh but the combo!"?

Yes, I'm so very sure you'd let your child handle your $30+ combo disc if you had a choice. :p

Yes the Combo, who says parents are going to let their children handle the disc? The parent can put it in the car DVD player, it isn't hard!