Target to only carry Blu-Ray? [Text View]

stevenmh

07-29-07, 04:50 PM

But there will be no HD DVD players in store until at least through the holidays.

Source? Magic ball? How can you know that? The CEO of Target doesn't know that. Unless he's accepted a check from Sony under those terms, there is absolutely no business reason whatsoever to decide in July what to carry during the holidays. You decide in July what to carry in July. You decide in August what to carry in August. And so forth and so on. HD DVD could buy an end cap before then. Or not, and Target could decide to carry the players anyway.

EDIT: and don't quote press releases as sources. Companies can say what they want and change their mind 3 days later (i.e. PS3 price drop). I want hard proof that under no conditions could a HD DVD player rest on a Target shelf before the end of the year. i.e. physical incompatibility between HD DVD player boxes and Target shelving. Blood oath from all Target shareholders. I'll even accept prophecies discovered on ancient scrolls. But not press releases.

mrseder

07-29-07, 05:10 PM

I want hard proof that under no conditions could a HD DVD player rest on a Target shelf before the end of the year. i.e. physical incompatibility between HD DVD player boxes and Target shelving.Well that's reasonable.

How about this: you keep an eye on Target stores and let us all know if you see one with an HDDVD stand alone player.

stevenmh

07-29-07, 05:12 PM

Well that's reasonable.

How about this: you keep an eye on Target stores and let us all know if you see one with an HDDVD stand alone player.

That's reasonable, too. Will do.

Notice that's different than speculating that there WILL or WILL NOT be players on shelves and stating it as fact. Just saying.

Tarpon

07-29-07, 05:15 PM

Well they are a bit player in the electronics market.................but that has nothing to do with the issue - that would be perception, which is the real goal :)

I'd agree the presence and the discs matter much more with it being Target. I don't think that many people buy a $500 player in a department store with no staff that can help. Now if it was CC or BB it would be absolutely huge.

brian1212

07-29-07, 06:16 PM

EDIT: and don't quote press releases as sources. Companies can say what they want and change their mind 3 days later (i.e. PS3 price drop). I want hard proof that under no conditions could a HD DVD player rest on a Target shelf before the end of the year. i.e. physical incompatibility between HD DVD player boxes and Target shelving. Blood oath from all Target shareholders. I'll even accept prophecies discovered on ancient scrolls. But not press releases.

Well then, there's no point in further discussion until after the fact.

Most of the rest of this forum can also probably be wrapped up as well.

DrDon

07-29-07, 06:21 PM

Well then, there's no point in further discussion until after the fact.Excellent point. Press releases are written by company shills. If you want some big laughs, dig around on the prn newswire. I wish I'd held on to some of the gems from years past. Especially the ones that contain the phrase, "We're 100% committed to..."

stevenmh

07-30-07, 06:57 AM

Well then, there's no point in further discussion until after the fact.

Most of the rest of this forum can also probably be wrapped up as well.

Not really. You can speculate... i.e. you BELIEVE Target will not carry HD DVD players. You can state why you believe it. Or not. Doesn't matter, it's your opinion.

But stating that Target WILL NOT carry HD DVD players this year is, IMO, nothing but a deliberate attempt to mislead newcomers to HDM who may be visiting the forum. I feel the same way about anyone claiming certainty on low-cost HD DVD players at WM. I definitely want to hear any scoop Kosty might have on it, but I'm not going to consider it fact until I see them on shelves.

Kong is King

07-30-07, 07:24 AM

Nescio

07-30-07, 09:08 AM

I sent customer service at Target an e-mail explaining that I was annoyed that they would only be selling the less reasonably-priced blu ray players. Here is their reply:

"Thanks for your e-mail regarding the unavailability of HD-DVD players and the availability of Blu-ray Disc at Target.

Target is committed to providing our guests with exceptional technology solutions. Blu-ray and HD DVD are two of the many solutions you’ll find at Target. We don’t prefer one format over the other and will continue to carry software in both Blue-ray and HD DVD format. Your feedback is a big help to us and I’ll be sure to send your comments on to our buyers.

Thanks for shopping with us. I hope we'll see you again at Target."

Aha, so they do only mention that they will carry HD DVD SOFTWARE. No mention of hardware.

Their response is actually consistent with the original claim on BD player exclusivity, and definitely consistent with a claim on exclusivity in standalones. And many people (me not included) claim that standalones are the key to the kingdom ...

LiquidX

07-30-07, 09:15 AM

Actually I see nothing in that reply that specifically mentions anything about either formats hardware being available at Target.

Lee Stewart

07-30-07, 09:32 AM

I sent customer service at Target an e-mail explaining that I was annoyed that they would only be selling the less reasonably-priced blu ray players. Here is their reply:

"Thanks for your e-mail regarding the unavailability of HD-DVD players and the availability of Blu-ray Disc at Target.

Target is committed to providing our guests with exceptional technology solutions. Blu-ray and HD DVD are two of the many solutions you’ll find at Target. We don’t prefer one format over the other and will continue to carry software in both Blue-ray and HD DVD format. Your feedback is a big help to us and I’ll be sure to send your comments on to our buyers.

Thanks for shopping with us. I hope we'll see you again at Target."

Nothing new here. This is exactly what the Target spokesperson said in the article that started the original thread. All you got was a personal copy of the statement, as opposed to having to read it in the "announcement."

That and an encouragement to shop at Target :D

WayneL

07-30-07, 09:37 AM

I say it's a slap in the face to Sony to avoid saying they will carry their player. It was Sony who said Target is exclusive.

Nescio

07-30-07, 09:45 AM

I say it's a slap in the face to Sony to avoid saying they will carry their player. It was Sony who said Target is exclusive.

In a response from a customer representative to someone who complains that they won't carry HD DVD players? This is a customer representative! His or her main function is to make people feel good about Target. Of course they won't rub it in by saying 'hey but we will carry the Sony player, which I know you must hate given that you put in the effort to email me to complain about this.' :rolleyes:

jsb_hburg

07-30-07, 10:50 AM

Who cares what a customer service representative says when it relates to new technology. Why assign any weight to such responses. This is axiomatic and something that should be quickly learned here at AVS.

spacejamz

07-30-07, 11:03 AM

Target specifically stated that they would monitor customer feedback to determine if HD DVD standalones would be put back on their shelves...

Yet some of the HD DVD supporters here claim that no one buys their hardware at Target and that Target featuring only blu ray players instore is not a big deal...So if this true, who is going to provide this feedback to Target to get the HD DVD players back on the shelves? Why would they do this if they don't buy players at Target or if they dont care? Or was someone just making stuff up in their post because the announcement did not favor their format?

Why did Toshiba not pay for end cap space? How do you measure the impact of the message that Target would only feature blu ray players instore this holiday season? Especially after the general public heard last month about Blockbuster carrying blu ray only in 1500 of its stores?

WayneL

07-30-07, 11:09 AM

In a response from a customer representative to someone who complains that they won't carry HD DVD players? This is a customer representative! His or her main function is to make people feel good about Target. Of course they won't rub it in by saying 'hey but we will carry the Sony player, which I know you must hate given that you put in the effort to email me to complain about this.' :rolleyes:
No that was a response Target gave out after the press-release journalism piece put out by HMM. It's now canned and being repeated.

Lee Stewart

07-30-07, 11:10 AM

spacejamz

07-30-07, 12:11 PM

Good questions. IMO they have three methods of monitoring HD DVD sales:

1. Sales of HD DVD movies sold in stores
2. Sales of the 360 AO - they will continue to carry that in store
3. Sales of A2's on their website

1. Theoretically, if Target's disk sales stay similar to the Nielsen numbers, how would a 2 to 1 advantage for blu ray prompt Target to place HD DVD players in store??

2. only 2-3% of the 360 owners have purchased the add-on so far...sales have declined since the warranty was extended...would you care to share any opinions on what would cause an increase sales of the add-on that would cause Target to rethink it's stance on featuring blu ray only in store???

3. since I personally haven't shopped for an HD DVD standalone player, how are Target's prices compared to other online retailers? is the A2 cheaper on Amazon?

Lee Stewart

07-30-07, 12:17 PM

1. Theoretically, if Target's disk sales stay similar to the Nielsen numbers, how would a 2 to 1 advantage for blu ray prompt Target to place HD DVD players in store??

An increase in players will equal an increase of movie sales. So the theory goes. In the next two months - if HD DVD players sales pick up and HD DVD movie sales pick up - they will see the results

2. only 2-3% of the 360 owners have purchased the add-on so far...sales have declined since the warranty was extended...would you care to share any opinions on what would cause an increase sales of the add-on that would cause Target to rethink it's stance on featuring blu ray only in store???

Sure - MS drops the price to $149 or $129 and they keep the 5 free movie deal. That will have an effect on AO sales won't it?

3. since I personally haven't shopped for an HD DVD standalone player, how are Target's prices compared to other online retailers? is the A2 cheaper on Amazon?

It is more than what the difference is on the price of the A2. If a consumer has a Target Credit Card - they may be more inclined to use it than a Visa or MC.

spacejamz

07-30-07, 12:59 PM

An increase in players will equal an increase of movie sales. So the theory goes. In the next two months - if HD DVD players sales pick up and HD DVD movie sales pick up - they will see the results.

But blu ray sales should pick as well due to the new owners of the PS3 after the price drop...blu ray already had a bigger base. And we still have not seen any increases of the 70K= owners who bought new HD DVD players in June. Either their HD DVD disk purchases are being negated by the current blu ray owners or they are not being disks.

Sure - MS drops the price to $149 or $129 and they keep the 5 free movie deal. That will have an effect on AO sales won't it?.

The price drop was to $179...many cost consious shoppers had the opporunity to purchase the add-on at Circuit City for $159 (using a $40 printable coupon)...if that didn't increase sales, how would just a $20 price drop at Target do it? would it be the five free movies that take how long to get now??? as many have stated, why buy the add on when you get a fully featured stand alone player for just a little more?

It is more than what the difference is on the price of the A2. If a consumer has a Target Credit Card - they may be more inclined to use it than a Visa or MC.

so i am betting that the majority of people who would even consider buying an HD DVD player will buy it at some other place than Target (i.e., Amazon)...

Lee Stewart

07-30-07, 01:13 PM

But blu ray sales should pick as well due to the new owners of the PS3 after the price drop...blu ray already had a bigger base. And we still have not seen any increases of the 70K= owners who bought new HD DVD players in June. Either their HD DVD disk purchases are being negated by the current blu ray owners or they are not being disks.

The theory on this is that people are waiting for their 5 free discs to arrive and renting from BBI or NF. Speculation only.

The PS3 is not a 1 to 1 ratio to a standalone. It is widely accepted that it is 5 to 1 because of 2 facts:

1. You need an HDTV
2. PS3 is a Game Console with a BD player inside of it.

Only use for a SAL is to watch HD movies or Upconvert DVD - both require an HDTV.

The price drop was to $179...many cost consious shoppers had the opporunity to purchase the add-on at Circuit City for $159 (using a $40 printable coupon)...if that didn't increase sales, how would just a $20 price drop at Target do it? would it be the five free movies that take how long to get now??? as many have stated, why buy the add on when you get a fully featured stand alone player for just a little more?

Do you believe this will be the last price drop in the next 2 to 4 months? And some people want one platform to game on and watch movies on. I agree the price needs to come down to $119 or $99 MSRP for the last 5 weeks of 2007. If MS wants to promote sales of the AO which is in direct competition to their DNL based idea. They have already offered an HD DNL - AKIRA. MS believes the future of HD movies is DNL not DISC

so i am betting that the majority of people who would even consider buying an HD DVD player will buy it at some other place than Target (i.e., Amazon)...

OK - your opinion. I gave you a reason why they might buy it at Target Online - that is what you asked for.

whippersnapper

07-30-07, 01:23 PM

Once Target builds up their BD stock (both selection & numbers per selection) as part of their build up toward the holidays, I hope that they institute for Blu-ray discs the sales they used to have (may still have them for all I know) for popular DVDs on the first day they are allowed to be sold. I remember many Tuesdays when my wife had me drop by Target on "first release Tuesday" to pick up a new DVD. Their sale prices that day were actually lower then the price at Costco.

So if Target does the same for their day/date Blu-rays, I'll probably be a frequent Tuesday customer for them again since there are many quality BD releases coming up in the remainder of the year. I'm getting tired of waiting so long for Amazon shipments to come for the new releases of BDs..

WriteSimple

07-30-07, 02:12 PM

The theory on this is that people are waiting for their 5 free discs to arrive and renting from BBI or NF. Speculation only. So you speculate that ONCE their free discs arrive they'll start buying? Or continue renting?

If your speculation is correct, Blockbuster has no reason not to support HD-DVD since the new HD-DVD consumers will rent until they get their free discs. Their data will show that.

The PS3 is not a 1 to 1 ratio to a standalone. It is widely accepted that it is 5 to 1 because of 2 facts:

1. You need an HDTV
2. PS3 is a Game Console with a BD player inside of it. You can buy a standalone BD/HD-DVD and hook it up to an NTSC widescreen TV. It would still work; you'd still get a picture.

If I accept the "widely accepted" 5:1 ratio (that's 5 PS3s to 1 BD standalones), then in June 19,700 new PS3 owners are using it to play BD (June sales 98,500 says the NPD). Total PS3 owners watching BD is 338,539.8 (total US PS3 owners 1,692,699). If these PS3 and BD player owners are the ones responsible for BD's Nielsen performance every week this year, well that's darn impressive.

Only use for a SAL is to watch HD movies or Upconvert DVD - both require an HDTV. SAL (Stand ALone?) can still be played on NTSC widescreen TVs.

Do you believe this will be the last price drop in the next 2 to 4 months? Don't know. Ask MS. But again, why would a HD-DVD supporter want an add-on when less than US$100 more, they can get a HD-DVD player?

Or is Toshiba's move to lower player prices was to confuse HD-DVD consumers by giving them more choice?

And some people want one platform to game on and watch movies on. Coming back to that 5:1 ratio, is that for people who uses PS3 exclusively for BD playback only or a combo of game play and BD playback?

I agree the price needs to come down to $119 or $99 MSRP for the last 5 weeks of 2007. If MS wants to promote sales of the AO which is in direct competition to their DNL based idea. They have already offered an HD DNL - AKIRA. MS believes the future of HD movies is DNL not DISC So that's why MS is strongly behind Toshiba in their support for HD-DVD.

OK - your opinion. I gave you a reason why they might buy it at Target Online - that is what you asked for. I assume those who want to buy a HD-DVD player online have already seen the player in action at Best Buy or at other HD-DVD owners' houses. But what about those who have not seen the player in action? How can they find out about the capabilities of the HD-DVD player when all they've got is a picture on the site?

fuad

Lee Stewart

07-30-07, 03:18 PM

So you speculate that ONCE their free discs arrive they'll start buying? Or continue renting?

If your speculation is correct, Blockbuster has no reason not to support HD-DVD since the new HD-DVD consumers will rent until they get their free discs. Their data will show that.

Like i said - unknown. Awful lot of posts all over the forums (outside AVS) titled; "Anyonr get their 5 free disc?"

You can buy a standalone BD/HD-DVD and hook it up to an NTSC widescreen TV. It would still work; you'd still get a picture.

So according to you, I can spend $250/500 for a player and $25 for a movie and get an image. As opposed to spending $50 and $12 for a movie. THAT doesn't make any sense to me.

If I accept the "widely accepted" 5:1 ratio (that's 5 PS3s to 1 BD standalones), then in June 19,700 new PS3 owners are using it to play BD (June sales 98,500 says the NPD). Total PS3 owners watching BD is 338,539.8 (total US PS3 owners 1,692,699). If these PS3 and BD player owners are the ones responsible for BD's Nielsen performance every week this year, well that's darn impressive.

You forgot to add the 125,000 BD SAL's to your number.

SAL (Stand ALone?) can still be played on NTSC widescreen TVs.

See above - same answer

Don't know. Ask MS. But again, why would a HD-DVD supporter want an add-on when less than US$100 more, they can get a HD-DVD player?

If they wanted to equip their 360 for HD movie playback - it is very small in size. Guess some people wanted to - over 150,000 did already.

Or is Toshiba's move to lower player prices was to confuse HD-DVD consumers by giving them more choice?

One has nothing to do with the other. One works on the 360 only (and PC) while the other is for anyone who wants a traditional player

Coming back to that 5:1 ratio, is that for people who uses PS3 exclusively for BD playback only or a combo of game play and BD playback?

The 5 to 1 ratio is for determining how many of the total population of PS3's are using it as a BD player. It takes into account the issue of having to have an HDTV to watch a BD movie . . in HD

So that's why MS is strongly behind Toshiba in their support for HD-DVD.

?

I assume those who want to buy a HD-DVD player online have already seen the player in action at Best Buy or at other HD-DVD owners' houses. But what about those who have not seen the player in action? How can they find out about the capabilities of the HD-DVD player when all they've got is a picture on the site?

fuad

Is a $250 purchase considered a "blind buy"? I wouldn't think so. Person has Target CC - is in BB and see's the A2 - likes it - if they like Target they will go and see no A2. They will ask and be told - "we only sell it through our online "store"

ResOGlas

07-30-07, 07:29 PM

Thanks for writing about the availability of HD DVD players at our Farragut Target.

Target is committed to providing our guests with exceptional technology solutions. Blu-ray and HD DVD are two of the many solutions you'll find at Target. Although we will only be carrying Blu-ray disc players, we'll continue to carry software in both the Blu-ray and HD DVD format. Your feedback is a big help to us and I'l be sure to send your comments on to our buyers.

We always welcome your questions, so if we can assist you in the future, please contact our Target Guest Relations team at (800) 440-0680. You can also speak with a team member at the Guest Services Desk at your local Target store, or visit us on Target.com. Either way, we're here to help.

Thanks for shopping with us. I hope we'll see you again soon at Target.

Sincerely,

Daryl
Target Guest Relations
www.target.com
[THREAD ID:1-3N2SL6]

Target's email response to a member that posted in the "Let Target Know you want HD-DVD" thread.

Sean_O

07-30-07, 08:01 PM

"Daryl
Target Guest Relations"

Is misinformed.

Nescio

07-30-07, 08:28 PM

"Daryl
Target Guest Relations"

Is misinformed.

Daryl probably spent a lot of time on AVS and learned that HD DVD only counts standalones as players ;)

HPforMe

07-30-07, 11:17 PM

Now that the story was lies, damn lies:
False alarm: Target's not giving up on HD DVD
http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/28/false-alarm-targets-not-giving-up-on-hd-dvd/

...any blu only boys who screamed the original false story want to apologize? Didn't think so.

Greg Kettell

07-31-07, 08:23 AM

Johnsteph10

07-31-07, 08:30 AM

They'll carry A BD standalone (for now).

mrseder

07-31-07, 09:17 PM

Simple question: Has Target publicly confirmed Ken Graffeo's comment that the story only amounts to Sony having bought an end cap?

Everdog

07-31-07, 09:41 PM

Why? The story was not a lie. Target will only be carrying BD standalones for the time being.

They'll continue to carry the 360 HD-DVD add-on (on the bottom shelf of a glass case) as well as their meager selection of HD DVD discs.

OK only a bunch of BR fans lied. The people that said Target was going exclusively Blu-RAY.
Were you one of those people?

Also, that HD DVD add-on will out sell that one stand alone too.

Lee Stewart

07-31-07, 09:42 PM

Universal VP adds fuel to HD format war
31 July 2007 20:19 by DVDBack23

Ken Graffeo, an executive VP for Universal Studios has recently made comments responding to the recent reports that Sony had purchased end caps for Blu-ray at Target stores but then called it "exclusive."

Graffeo said that "standalone HD DVD players are still much more affordable than Blu-ray players," and that more importantly, HD DVD provided a better experience for buyers and even went on to welcomed consumers to do a direct comparison for the movie 300 which is available in both formats.

Although the format war is still completely a toss-up, the Blu-ray camp would have you believe that they are running away with a victory. That is not the case now, nor will it be for awhile despite certain retailers moving to Blu-ray "exclusivity".

If Graffeo's comments do nothing else, it will at least add fuel to the format war fire that is still burning and end any speculation that Universal is moving towards Blu-ray anytime soon.

Source:
Yahoo!

http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/10572.cfm

the blob

07-31-07, 09:43 PM

You know, one other thing i noticed in Target the other day was that they carry a decent amount of Sony A/V products. I didn't notice one Toshiba product. It's quite possible this is more about branding in the end. They carry some cheap Phillips dvd players but it could be that they see Sony as one of their trusted and better selling brands so, with the end cap incentive, they've decided to have a go with their player. It's my feeling that, after over a year carrying no standalones instore, they may well have continued not to were it not for the lower priced Sony player.

And that's coming from someone with just an HD DVD player at the moment.. :p

Still, like i said in the other thread, i'm not convinced they'll sell a lot of players at this stage. The electronics section is always one of the most sparsely populated areas in any Target i've ever been in but they extra space and promotion given to the software could help in increasing awareness or coaxing in PS3 owners, if they want to spend the extra $10 - $15 over the dvd version that'll be on sale in the other aisle.

rdjam

07-31-07, 09:53 PM

Can someone tell me why my post was deleted? There was nothing in my post that broke any rules, as far as I know.

I merely stated that it would appear that in reading the story closely, it would seem that this is merely a merchandising campaign purchased by Sony. And Target statements indicate that they have not made a format choice at all and will still carry HD DVD movies.

BD would have to pay way over the odds to have their player exclusively, and I don't think that this will be known for sure until the campaign starts. Target officials would certainly have to wonder if they'll miss revenue opportunities by not carrying the cheaper HD players that match their customer base better.

seth.s

07-31-07, 10:10 PM

I merely stated that it would appear that in reading the story closely, it would seem that this is merely a merchandising campaign purchased by Sony. And Target statements indicate that they have not made a format choice at all and will still carry HD DVD movies.The major announcement from Target was that they will exclusively be carrying stand alone players for Blu-ray this holiday season.

They announced two others things as well. One, that they will be expanding their Blu-ray movie inventory. And two that Sony has purchased an endcap these holidays for the Sony standalone.

Yes, they will continue to carry their selection of HD-DVD movies and the 360-add.

thebland

07-31-07, 10:16 PM

Target officials would certainly have to wonder if they'll miss revenue opportunities by not carrying the cheaper HD players that match their customer base better.

I don't think they wondered at all. They made a bold decision with the help of far more hard data in hand than we have. Apparently, the greater potential for revenue lies in Blu Ray...hence their decision to stock it exclusively in all their B&M locations. Target is quite price conscious and has built a highly successful chain by selecting carefully what to provide to their customers. They are highly profitable. They prefer Blu Ray for the Target customer browsing thier electronics aisles. No sense in second quessing it as it is done.

alfbinet

07-31-07, 10:18 PM

The major announcement from Target was that they will exclusively be carrying stand alone players for Blu-ray this holiday season.

They announced two others things as well. One, that they will be expanding their Blu-ray movie inventory. And two that Sony has purchased an endcap these holidays for the Sony standalone.

Yes, they will continue to carry their selection of HD-DVD movies and the 360-add.

I hope they tell the consumer that the player they are selling won't play all features on the BD discs they are selling. :D Unless they are selling the Denon and even that is iffy. Unless the BD discs are "next generatation" with all the bells and whistles, which they advertise on the BD promo discs currently playing at BB, CC etc.

thebland

07-31-07, 10:23 PM

I hope they tell the consumer that the player they are selling won't play all features on the BD discs they are selling. :D

Really........

Well, if those consumers bought the 300 today on HD DVD, they may not be able to play it at all. THere are many users here having problems (lock ups, error codes, freezes, etc.) with the 300 HD DVD combo disc. The the thread in the HD DVD Software area is growing and the film was only just released today. It is just what happened with Children of Men and others. Some work and some don't. This is becoming a habit it seems with these flipper discs.

Now in the Blu Ray section, this disc has had no reportings of lock ups or freezes.

Lee Stewart

07-31-07, 10:28 PM

rdjam

07-31-07, 10:29 PM

I don't think they wondered at all. They made a bold decision with the help of far more hard data in hand than we have...

...They prefer Blu Ray for the Target customer...
Target spokesman Brie Heath said: Target is “simply merchandising Blu-ray hardware as the initial foray into this exciting category. As with all our merchandise, we will track guest feedback and adjust as necessary.

“We are not proclaiming one format versus the other as the preferred consumer technology,” she added. “Software will continue to be available to our guests in both the Blu-ray and the HD DVD formats. Target is committed to providing our guests with exceptional technology solutions. Blu-ray is one of many solutions that our guests will find at Target.”

Seems Target's declaration of a "bold decision" really came from David Bishop at Sony Pictures:

“I think what you’re seeing is that retailers are deciding,” Bishop said. “This is the beginning of a trend. Retailers are very impatient now. It’s not like DVD sales are in rapid growth mode the way they were three or four years ago. They are flat or in a state of decline, and retailers can no longer wait for us to figure this out."

If one examines the story closely, it seems pretty obvious that the main source for the story was David Bishop, as he is quoted most persistently throughout, from the beginning.

Yet it also seems very clear that the "spin" on this story is not quite all it appears:

http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/28/false-alarm-targets-not-giving-up-on-hd-dvd/

thebland

07-31-07, 10:30 PM

RDJAM,

Let's bottom line it then. Target stores will have no HD DVD players to sell this Christmas (regardless of who is spinning what). Agreed?

alfbinet

07-31-07, 10:31 PM

Really........

Well, if those consumers bought the 300 today on HD DVD, they may not be able to play it at all. THere are many users here having problems (lock ups, error codes, freezes, etc.) with the 300 HD DVD combo disc. The the thread in the HD DVD Software area is growing and the film was only just released today. It is just what happened with Children of Men and others. Some work and some don't. This is becoming a habit it seems with these flipper discs.

Now in the Blu Ray section, this disc has had no reportings of lock ups or freezes.

It seems that most are responding that THEY ARE NOT HAVING PROBLEMS. That count for total posts was 47. But it seems from other posts regarding HD DVD 300 people are LOVING the interactive features, except for some BD supporters who feel they were cheated by not knowing BD would (rumor) come out with additional interactive features. Maybe HD PIP?

PRO-630HD

07-31-07, 10:34 PM

RDJAM,

Let's bottom line it then. Target stores will have no HD DVD players to sell this Christmas (regardless of who is spinning what). Agreed?

False, microsoft will be selling one.

thebland

07-31-07, 10:35 PM

It seems that most are responding that THEY ARE NOT HAVING PROBLEMS. That count for total posts was 47.

THe glass may be half full to you, but it is clear that HD DVD owners are reporting issues. Are you saing the thread is in error? Check out the thread title. Sure more folks may problem free, but I tell you, if I was having a group of friends over to watch 300, I would have the Blu Ray version on hand to play if I didn't have time to test out the HD DVD. I think the fact that there is a potential for a problem with any flipper disc is irritating to many HD DVD owners. I bought the Blu Ray version as I knew there would be no flipper disc issues (an an uncompressed PCM track);).

thebland

07-31-07, 10:37 PM

False, microsoft will be selling one.

True...but you have to also own an XBOX for it to work.

Lee Stewart

07-31-07, 10:44 PM

True...but you have to also own an XBOX for it to work.

Gee - only 6 million of those in the USA today - another 5 million worldwide.

And nothing is "cast in concrete" as much as you make it out to be. Next month Toshiba can buy the other endcap and have it's own display.

Just like they do at CC and BB. The fact that Target choose Sony and the S300? Big deal. Joe Public shops there. And Joe Public is not going to buy a $499 S300 when for the same price or $100 more - he can buy a PS3 - if he is at all interested in gaming. No interest in gaming . . . $499 BD player . . . at Target . . LOL

The original article said the month of October it starts. It said the S300 will be there (no other BD player) with some Disney titles . . and the price of the S300 will be $499.

This would be like Kmart doing this . . . if they were still in business.

PRO-630HD

07-31-07, 10:45 PM

The bluray website has simply posted a lot of BS!!! Image going exclusively to bluray. Days later they officially announce concerts for hddvd in time for xmas. Paramount leaning toward bluray with the new edition of Face Off to contain HD special features exclusive to bluray. Reality, the extras are identical with the hddvd being a 2 disc set as our Paramount insider jiggawhat confirmed today total BS again.

Lee Stewart

07-31-07, 10:50 PM

thebland

07-31-07, 10:53 PM

Gee - only 6 million of those in the USA today - another 5 million worldwide.

And nothing is "cast in concrete" as much as you make it out to be. Next month Toshiba can buy the other endcap and have it's own display.

Just like they do at CC and BB. The fact that Target choose Sony and the S300? Big deal. Joe Public shops there. And Joe Public is not going to buy a $499 S300 when for the same price or $100 more - he can buy a PS3 - if he is at all interested in gaming. No interest in gaming . . . $499 BD player . . . at Target . . LOL

The original article said the month of October it starts. It said the S300 will be there (no other BD player) with some Disney titles . . and the price of the S300 will be $499.

This would be like Kmart doing this . . . if they were still in business.

I'm not judging the decision, just pointing out the fact that HD DVD standalones won't be in Target stores for the holidays. Simple. There seems to be a lot of confusion of this (hence the title of this thread).

ILJG

07-31-07, 10:58 PM

THe glass may be half full to you, but it is clear that HD DVD owners are reporting issues. Are you saing the thread is in error? Check out the thread title. Sure more folks may problem free, but I tell you, if I was having a group of friends over to watch 300, I would have the Blu Ray version on hand to play if I didn't have time to test out the HD DVD. I think the fact that there is a potential for a problem with any flipper disc is irritating to many HD DVD owners. I bought the Blu Ray version as I knew there would be no flipper disc issues (an an uncompressed PCM track);).

Right, because no BD titles or players have ever had any issues. :rolleyes:

Why has such drivel become so pervasive around here these days?

thebland

07-31-07, 11:02 PM

Right, because no BD titles or players have ever had any issues. :rolleyes:

Why has such drivel become so pervasive around here these days?

This drivel has a lot of evidence behind it.

If you have spent any time in the HD DVD forums, flipper discs (combo discs) are an issue with many owners. There have been numerous failures reported. 300 is just the latest. While a mojority play fine, a significant minority do not. Now this isn't a player problem, but a disc problem as HD DVD releases these combo discs.

spacejamz

07-31-07, 11:04 PM

False, microsoft will be selling one.

ok...so now game consoles count as players now???

spacejamz

07-31-07, 11:07 PM

And nothing is "cast in concrete" as much as you make it out to be. Next month Toshiba can buy the other endcap and have it's own display.

wrong...if they ever do carry HD DVD players, it won't be until after the holidays...

In another retail victory for the Blu-ray Disc format, Target Stores said it will carry Sony’s $499 Blu-ray Disc player as its exclusive high-definition home video system during the critical holiday selling season and expand its inventory of Blu-ray Disc software...

besides, why didn't Toshiba didn't pay for the endcap now?? Must be their strategy of waiting until it is too late....

alfbinet

07-31-07, 11:09 PM

This drivel has a lot of evidence behind it.

If you have spent any time in the HD DVD forums, flipper discs (combo discs) are an issue with many owners. There have been numerous failures reported. 300 is just the latest. While a mojority play fine, a significant minority do not. Now this isn't a player problem, but a disc problem as HD DVD releases these combo discs.

Granted they were. Do you see many posts about CoM, or Hollywoodland anymore? Firmware has fixed those issues. The issue is that many on this forum don't like Combos. More than likely they have a add on as their primary player or only one HD DVD/BD player in the home. For those that have more than one DVD player in the home or the SUV combos make sense. Regardless how folks on AVS feel about combos they have a GREAT Potential to infiltrate homes like the PS3 did.

I have heard that BD is not capable of Combos, or that they can not produce combos because BD can not include a standard dvd on the flip side and call it a BD disc, I don't know if this is true or not, but I have no doubt that if BD could do a combo to get their movies in the home they would.

alfbinet

07-31-07, 11:16 PM

ok...so now game consoles count as players now???

If its sole purpose is to play movies it should (which the add on does, people buy it for their game console only to play movies). FWIW, I think all PS3 players should be counted as BD players, it just makes the sales of BD discs all that much sadder.

Lee Stewart

07-31-07, 11:19 PM

I'm not judging the decision, just pointing out the fact that HD DVD standalones won't be in Target stores for the holidays. Simple. There seems to be a lot of confusion of this (hence the title of this thread).

Please show me a quote . . . other than from Sony . . . .from Target that reinforces what you just said.

This is August - Toshiba could easily "woo" Target for an endcap. There was nothing Exclusive about the deal.

Maybe they don't have to . . . . .

HD-A2W ;)

ILJG

07-31-07, 11:23 PM

This drivel has a lot of evidence behind it.

If you have spent any time in the HD DVD forums, flipper discs (combo discs) are an issue with many owners. There have been numerous failures reported. 300 is just the latest. While a mojority play fine, a significant minority do not. Now this isn't a player problem, but a disc problem as HD DVD releases these combo discs.

Old news, few titles. Children of Men, Good Shepherd, yadda yadda. Firmwares fixed the playback issues, as well as badly authored discs that Universal swapped, or retailers swapped, etc.. Heck, even my standard DVD's still hiccup on occasion, especially Netflix mangled ones.

To claim any optical disc format is 100% reliable is pretty silly, not that it wouldn't stop many chuckleheads around here from doing so.

And to pretend titles like Chronos and the Descent didn't cause similar problems, or that PoTC titles aren't riddled with horrible "interactivity"/menuing problems on BD is downright disingenuous. Not that these little facts will stop you said chuckleheads from continuing to claim that only the opposing format has issues.

seth.s

07-31-07, 11:27 PM

Here are the straight facts:

1. Sony bought an endcap
2. The S300 will be on that endcap with some Disney BD titles.
3. The 360 AO will still be sold in store.
4. The A2 will continue to be sold online.
5. Target sells both formats in store - limited titles.

That's it. That is what happened - nothing more - nothing less.Your list is not comprehensive (no mention of the PS3 yet mention of add-on ? HD-DVD products "online" but not Blu-ray products "online" ? ).

What "happened" was three things.

- Target stores will carry stand alones only for Blu-ray this year.
- Target stores will expand Blu-ray movie inventory this year.
- Sony will have a Blu-ray end cap this year in Target stores.

Nothing else at target has changed.

The HD-DVD and Blu-ray products that they were previously selling, both in store and online, will still be sold in-store (if that is where they were being sold before) and online (if that is where they were being sold before).

alfbinet

07-31-07, 11:30 PM

Your list is not comprehensive (no mention of the PS3 yet mention of add-on ? HD-DVD products "online" but not Blu-ray products "online" ? ).

What "happened" was three things.

- Target stores will carry stand alones only for Blu-ray this year. - Target stores will expand Blu-ray movie inventory this year.
- Sony will have a Blu-ray end cap this year in Target stores.

Nothing else at target has changed.

The HD-DVD and Blu-ray products that they were previously selling, both in store and online, will still be sold in-store (if that is where they were being sold before) and online (if that is where they were being sold before).

As someone asked before, was this a statement from Target or Sony?

stevenmh

07-31-07, 11:33 PM

Target stores will carry stand alones only for Blu-ray this year.

I keep reading it, but nobody can answer me why it would make any business sense whasoever to etch this decision in stone in July.

So how 'bout we agree to stop spreading speculation as fact? If you want to use press releases as sources for future happenings, then be prepared to discuss PS3 price and Fox titles and how we can be assured that Target information is any more reliable.

Thanks.

Lee Stewart

07-31-07, 11:38 PM

As someone asked before, was this a statement from Target or Sony?

TARGET QUOTE:

"We are not proclaiming one format vs. the other as the preferred consumer technology, and software will continue to be available to our guests in both the Blu-ray and HD-DVD format," Target spokeswoman Brie Heath said.

TRUTHFUL ARTICLE - NO QUOTES

http://www.timesdaily.com/article/20070725/APF/707250873

Target Corp., the nation's second-largest retailer, will start selling a Sony Blu-ray high-definition DVD player during the critical holiday shopping period and feature the player along with DVDs in the format in store displays, dealing a potential blow to the rival HD DVD format.

Target does not sell high-def DVD players in its stores, although it does sell a Toshiba player for $299 on its Web site

Target stores do sell an HD DVD add-on for the Microsoft X-Box 360 as well as Sony Corp.'s PlayStation 3, which comes with a Blu-ray player built in.

seth.s

07-31-07, 11:45 PM

If you guys want to change the announcement to:

- Target to carry Blu-ray stand alones this christmas.
- Sony has claimed that Target will not carry HD-DVD stand alones this christmas.
- No one has claimed that Sony's claim is untrue, including Target or the HD-DVD group.

Then as long as this is all true, I really could care less. It seems clear to me what will be happening at Target this christmas. Believe what you want guys.

MichaelHDDVD

07-31-07, 11:52 PM

I think my target did go Blu-Ray only. 300 and Shooter on HD DVD were completely sold out and there were three copes of each on Blu-Ray.

rdjam

07-31-07, 11:53 PM

rdjam

07-31-07, 11:59 PM

RDJAM,

Let's bottom line it then. Target stores will have no HD DVD players to sell this Christmas (regardless of who is spinning what). Agreed?
No, not agreed. No one knows whether that will be the case, and certainly Target has not said there will be none. They were the first to say in the article that this merchandising deal represents their "first foray" into HD players in-store.

seth.s

08-01-07, 12:02 AM

I think my target did go Blu-Ray only. 300 and Shooter on HD DVD were completely sold out and there were three copes of each on Blu-Ray.At my Target the HD-DVD version is still in the storeroom in an unopened box. Ok, I'm joking (I'd have to go there to check). But I stick by my point, in my opinion the Blu-ray version is going to outsell the HD-DVD version by a very large margin. I'll go with at least 4 to 1.

rdjam

08-01-07, 12:09 AM

At my Target the HD-DVD version is still in the storeroom in an unopened box. Ok, I'm joking (I'd have to go there to check). But I stick by my point, in my opinion the Blu-ray version is going to outsell the HD-DVD version by a very large margin. I'll go with at least 4 to 1.
Checking hdgamedb.com shows that Amazon has the BD version at number 3 rank, and the HD DVD version at number 4 rank.

That shows that sales are virtually identical at Amazon, hardly a 4 to 1 ratio, even if one opines that only HD DVD owners shop at Amazon...

seth.s

08-01-07, 12:16 AM

I think the PS3 owners will be out in force on this one. They are also less likely to pre-order on Amazon.

ILJG

08-01-07, 12:27 AM

They are also less likely to pre-order on Amazon.

Why is that? Care to back that up with something, say a link to an actual article?

zBuff

08-01-07, 12:53 AM

Depends what demographic you consider PS3 owners. If they are teens therefore unlikely to own a credit card, I'd expect more B&M sales. If you consider them 20 to 30, I'd say they're more likely to purchase online

tqlla

08-01-07, 02:04 AM

I think my target did go Blu-Ray only. 300 and Shooter on HD DVD were completely sold out and there were three copes of each on Blu-Ray.

At the target I went to this morning, they sold about half a slot(7-8 discs?) of BD 300. And less than half of the HD-DVD version.

Because the BD slot was empty, the person at the store went to the back and picked up another slots worth of BD discs.

vancouver

08-01-07, 02:15 AM

While a mojority play fine, a significant minority do not.

a significant minority?

PRO-630HD

08-01-07, 02:46 AM

ok...so now game consoles count as players now???

According to the bluray camp they do. The hddvd add on will not play games either!

Standalone hddvd players sold 300,000

Standalone bluray players sold 100,000

The ps3 is what gives the high numbers.

Lee Stewart

08-01-07, 07:38 AM

a significant minority?

Oxymoron if there ever was one. :D

Lee Stewart

08-01-07, 07:43 AM

Someone mentioned that all PS3's should be counted as BD players and I agree. All of them are capable of playing a BD movie.

Between today and 12/31 almost 10 million people are going to buy an HDTV. I am sure that some of them will be PS3 owners.

IMO - the PS3 has to be counted 100% . . . . or don't count it at all because without the PS3 there would be :

1. No 70/30 Neilsen charts

3. No BD format.

zBuff

08-01-07, 07:49 AM

Oxymoron if there ever was one. :D

no not really. methinks you need to look up the definition of "oxymoron", "significant" and "minority"

ENNO

08-01-07, 07:50 AM

Lee Stewart

08-01-07, 08:07 AM

target have got rid of HD DVD standalone players all together now and only carry blu ray items...NO HD DVD AT ALL!!!i would link you too it but im not allowed until i have 5 posts...but look it up on N4G

Here is the story if this is the one you mean:

http://www.gamesradar.com/us/ps3/game/news/article.jsp?sectionId=1006&articleId=20070731153957880032&releaseId=20060314115917309058

Hawk-eyed reader Thomas Würgler came across Microsoft's Major Nelson saying this isn't true. "I had an interesting discussion with some of the HD DVD folks last night at the 300 event here at Comic-Con," said Nelson.

"It turns out that the Target 'exclusive' for Blu Ray is *not* an exclusive. Sony bought some end aisle placement (normal in retail) and just called it exclusive. Target WILL continue to carry HD DVD products. I am told to expect a comment from Target next week."

July 31 2007

patrick99

08-01-07, 08:14 AM

Here is the story if this is the one you mean:

http://www.gamesradar.com/us/ps3/game/news/article.jsp?sectionId=1006&articleId=20070731153957880032&releaseId=20060314115917309058

Unidentified "HD DVD folks" are certainly likely to be experts on the terms of an arrangement between Target and Sony.

Lee Stewart

08-01-07, 08:25 AM

Unidentified "HD DVD folks" are certainly likely to be experts on the terms of an arrangement between Target and Sony.

Sure why not? We have plenty of experts here on:

1. Corporate Financials

2. Manufacturing Costs

3. Licensing and Royalty Agreements

4. Component Costs

Now we have an expert in Retail Merchandising Agreements. :rolleyes:

patrick99

08-01-07, 08:27 AM

Sure why not? We have plenty of experts here on:

1. Corporate Financials

2. Manufacturing Costs

3. Licensing and Royalty Agreements

4. Component Costs

What's one more? :rolleyes:

More HD DVD deflection?

Lee Stewart

08-01-07, 08:29 AM

More HD DVD deflection?

I would not make HD DVD "deflection" an exclusive to that format. Seems we also have BD deflection as well don't we?

patrick99

08-01-07, 08:46 AM

HD DVD rule of engagement number 371:

When you can't respond on the substance, do one of the following:

(a) Change the subject; or

(b) Accuse the BD side of doing the same thing.

Everdog

08-01-07, 08:47 AM

- Target stores will carry stand alones only for Blu-ray this year.

You are still incorrect. Target will carry 1 Blu-Ray stand-alone not multiple.

Everdog

08-01-07, 09:03 AM

target have got rid of HD DVD standalone players all together now and only carry blu ray items...NO HD DVD AT ALL!!!i would link you too it but im not allowed until i have 5 posts...but look it up on N4G

Exhibit #1. Blu-Ray fans make the more outrageous claims.

patrick99 do you agree with the above post, or are you going to take the HD DVD side and say the above is wrong.

I am still waiting of the "Dead in x months" claims to show up in this thread.

patrick99

08-01-07, 09:07 AM

Exhibit #1. Blu-Ray fans make the more outrageous claims.

patrick99 do you agree with the above post, or are you going to take the HD DVD side and say the above is wrong.

I am still waiting of the "Dead in x months" claims to show up in this thread.

It is a factually incorrect statement by someone who has made three posts.

Winn

08-01-07, 10:00 AM

Actually, that reminds me, isn't Target supposed to make a clarification of this sometime this week. Anything on that?

seth.s

08-01-07, 02:11 PM

You are still incorrect. Target will carry 1 Blu-Ray stand-alone not multiple.You mean 1 model. They will carry many, many stand alones of that model. :p

ResOGlas

08-01-07, 02:15 PM

Actually, that reminds me, isn't Target supposed to make a clarification of this sometime this week. Anything on that?

Hahaha.

Toshiba would like them to make a statement, to say the least.

Numanoid101

08-01-07, 03:20 PM

Yeah, where is this clarification?

patrick99

08-01-07, 03:24 PM

Yeah, where is this clarification?

They must be taking their time to get it just right. ;)

Everdog

08-01-07, 03:24 PM

You mean 1 model. They will carry many, many stand alones of that model. :p

Yes. I stand corrected. :(

Shug7272

08-01-07, 05:28 PM

They must be taking their time to get it just right. ;)
You mean a clarification of what target announced to reuters regarding only carrying blu ray stand alone players. Why would they clarify that? Blogs? Give me ten minutes my blog will say whatever you want it too. :rolleyes:

patrick99

08-01-07, 05:33 PM

You mean a clarification of what target announced to reuters regarding only carrying blu ray stand alone players. Why would they clarify that? Blogs? Give me ten minutes my blog will say whatever you want it too. :rolleyes:

The clarification that the HD DVD camp keeps claiming will be coming from Target "this week" that will supposedly make it clear that the Sony press release last week was totally wrong.

ResOGlas

08-01-07, 08:17 PM

The clarification that the HD DVD camp keeps claiming will be coming from Target "this week" that will supposedly make it clear that the Sony press release last week was totally wrong.

Once again, as stated by Target's customer service:
Target is committed to providing our guests with exceptional technology solutions. Blu-ray and HD DVD are two of the many solutions you'll find at Target. Although we will only be carrying Blu-ray disc players, we'll continue to carry software in both the Blu-ray and HD DVD format.

Everdog

08-02-07, 08:59 AM

Once again, as stated by Target's customer service:
...Although we will only be carrying Blu-ray disc players...

And yet they continue to sell an HDDVD player - the 360 add-on. They really are clueless.

Supermans

08-02-07, 09:52 AM

And yet they continue to sell an HDDVD player - the 360 add-on. They really are clueless.

The 360 add-on is just that, an add-on.. You need an X-Box 360 and the add-on to play HD DVD movies.. For it to be called a player, it would have to be a stand-alone in my opinion...

Everdog

08-02-07, 10:02 AM

The 360 add-on is just that, an add-on.. You need an X-Box 360 and the add-on to play HD DVD movies.. For it to be called a player, it would have to be a stand-alone in my opinion...

So the PS3 is not a Blu-Ray player? When Toshiba says they hold a 70% market share of HDM player sales, that's OK?

The PS3, the Xbox360 and add-on, and the stand-alones all PLAY movies and therefore are all movie players.

Supermans

08-02-07, 10:19 AM

So the PS3 is not a Blu-Ray player? When Toshiba says they hold a 70% market share of HDM player sales, that's OK?

The PS3, the Xbox360 and add-on, and the stand-alones all PLAY movies and therefore are all movie players.

The PS3 has the Blu-Ray player built into the system/ No other device is needed..That is what differentiates the PS3 as a "player" and the HD DVD add-on as an "add-on" and not a player until you purchase a 360 or have one already....

MichaelHDDVD

08-02-07, 10:32 AM

The 360 add-on is just that, an add-on.. You need an X-Box 360 and the add-on to play HD DVD movies.. For it to be called a player, it would have to be a stand-alone in my opinion...

You do realize that the 360 HD DVD add-on is targeted to people who own XBox 360's right?

Everdog

08-02-07, 10:36 AM

You do realize that the 360 HD DVD add-on is targeted to people who own XBox 360's right?

But can be used with PCs and laptops too! ;)

xbdestroya

08-02-07, 10:38 AM

Wasn't there supposed to be a "clarification" from Target on this? At least... according to Major Nelson, right?

Lee Stewart

08-02-07, 10:41 AM

Wasn't there supposed to be a "clarification" from Target on this? At least... according to Major Nelson, right?

Not 8/3/07 @ 5:00 PM yet . . . "next week"

xbdestroya

08-02-07, 10:41 AM

Not 8/3/07 @ 5:00 PM yet . . . "next week"

Riiiiiight.... Don't wait up for it is my advice.

Everdog

08-02-07, 10:46 AM

The PS3 has the Blu-Ray player built into the system/ No other device is needed..That is what differentiates the PS3 as a "player" and the HD DVD add-on as an "add-on" and not a player until you purchase a 360 or have one already....

Wow. Your logic is truly dizzying. I can go to target and buy an XBox 360 and add-on, but that is not an HD player. But if I buy the PS3, that is.

And since Target sells Xbox 360s plus add-ons, that does not count, since...other devices are needed...wait a minute...thats not true....what is your point?
If the Xbox360 played Blu-Ray, then it would be a player?

Oh, wait, the PS3 plays Blu-Ray movies without other devices like a remote, and since you do not have to buy the remote separately...nope thats not it either.

RROSEN

08-02-07, 11:06 AM

Wow. Your logic is truly dizzying. I can go to target and buy an XBox 360 and add-on, but that is not an HD player. But if I buy the PS3, that is.

And since Target sells Xbox 360s plus add-ons, that does not count, since...other devices are needed...wait a minute...thats not true....what is your point?
If the Xbox360 played Blu-Ray, then it would be a player?

Oh, wait, the PS3 plays Blu-Ray movies without other devices like a remote, and since you do not have to buy the remote separately...nope that's not it either.

They are all useless without a TV. So I guess none count unless you buy a TV with it. Or maybe popcorn as well.

In any case while the "technicalities" may be that you can still buy an HD-DVD player or component of a player, if they are in fact not going to carry the HD-DVD stand alone players there is no way to look at that other than bad news for HD-DVD. How bad it is, is the question. Similar to BB it is probably much worse from a marketing and public opinion perspective than sales, but these things WILL slowly add up over time and HD-DVD better be working to counter them or reduce additional occurrences.

Cheers,

Richard

Supermans

08-02-07, 11:36 AM

They are all useless without a TV. So I guess none count unless you buy a TV with it. Or maybe popcorn as well.

In any case while the "technicalities" may be that you can still buy an HD-DVD player or component of a player, if they are in fact not going to carry the HD-DVD stand alone players there is no way to look at that other than bad news for HD-DVD. How bad it is, is the question. Similar to BB it is probably much worse from a marketing and public opinion perspective than sales, but these things WILL slowly add up over time and HD-DVD better be working to counter them or reduce additional occurrences.

Cheers,

Richard

Very true indeed. Any which way you look at it, Target's decision to not carry any HD DVD stand-alones is damaging to HD DVD. No end-cap that promotes the player and no "demo reel" running a demo loop all day long with trailers and movie previews... Target will be buying more Blu-Ray software as a result of this "blu support" and HD DVD will suffer further as blu-ray software stock takes up more shelf space than its competitor. Even if an end-cap with the X-Box 360 and the add-on was made with a demo loop and all the HD DVD movie's underneath, you will be hard pressed to find HDTV buyers interested in that combination when for about the same price or lower, you can buy a stand-alone Blu-Ray player or a PS3.

Shug7272

08-02-07, 11:38 AM

Still no "clarification" huh.... didnt figure so. Its still fun to come check. See ya tomorrow ... same time, no "clarification" then either I bet.

And yet they continue to sell an HDDVD player - the 360 add-on. They really are clueless.AHHH hahahaha... haha.. sniff.. wait a minute... AHH HAHAHA. You mean you guys are counting console peripherals now. :rolleyes: My lord, yea Im sure they will sell like hotcakes. :D Stinks like desperation in here.

WayneL

08-02-07, 12:49 PM

Link: Target to only carry Blu-ray Players? (http://www.homemediamagazine.com/news/html/breaking_article.cfm?sec_id=2&&article_ID=10947)
How do I get to be a moderator so I can post biased and inaccurate stories?

Target spokesman Brie Heath said: Target is “simply merchandising Blu-ray hardware as the initial foray into this exciting category. As with all our merchandise, we will track guest feedback and adjust as necessary.

“We are not proclaiming one format versus the other as the preferred consumer technology,” she added. “Software will continue to be available to our guests in both the Blu-ray and the HD DVD formats. Target is committed to providing our guests with exceptional technology solutions. Blu-ray is one of many solutions that our guests will find at Target.”

Lee Stewart

08-02-07, 12:51 PM

Still no "clarification" huh.... didnt figure so. Its still fun to come check. See ya tomorrow ... same time, no "clarification" then either I bet.

AHHH hahahaha... haha.. sniff.. wait a minute... AHH HAHAHA. You mean you guys are counting console peripherals now. :rolleyes: My lord, yea Im sure they will sell like hotcakes. :D Stinks like desperation in here.

360 AO Sales Up 1000%

http://www.xbox360fanboy.com/2007/08/02/xbox-360-hd-dvd-player-sales-rise-1-000/

MozartMan

08-02-07, 12:56 PM

360 AO Sales Up 1000%

http://www.xbox360fanboy.com/2007/08/02/xbox-360-hd-dvd-player-sales-rise-1-000/

Nice spin, Lee.

it doesn't mean that they're selling 1000% more, it's just determined by how it went up on sales rank. read the thing at the bottom of the movers and shakers index. it's at 16 but it was at 181, which means that it increased 165 sales ranks. since it is at 16, 165/6*100% = 1031%.

Lee Stewart

08-02-07, 01:12 PM

Nice spin, Lee.

Wasn't there a recent thread that said PS3 sales at Amazon up over 700% right after the $100 price cut? Sony said 135% from 7/9 to 7/23

patrick99

08-02-07, 01:14 PM

spacejamz

08-02-07, 01:28 PM

How do I get to be a moderator so I can post biased and inaccurate stories?

Target spokesman Brie Heath said: Target is “simply merchandising Blu-ray hardware as the initial foray into this exciting category. As with all our merchandise, we will track guest feedback and adjust as necessary.

“We are not proclaiming one format versus the other as the preferred consumer technology,” she added. “Software will continue to be available to our guests in both the Blu-ray and the HD DVD formats. Target is committed to providing our guests with exceptional technology solutions. Blu-ray is one of many solutions that our guests will find at Target.”

as stated all along, Target will still carry blu ray and HD DVD movies. That has never been debated.

However, Target will increase their blu ray movie inventory while featuring a blu ray standalone player on a end cap that Sony paid for during the holiday season. The only HD DVD player that will be available in stores during the Christmas shopping season will be the 360 add on. After the holiday season, based on consumer feedback, Target will continually monitor theirs customers needs to see if any changes need to be made.

What exactly are the HD DVD supporters contesting??

Has anyone not asked by Toshiba did not offer to pay for an endcap at Target? Do they not want to participate in this format war in America's 2nd largest retailer???

spacejamz

08-02-07, 01:29 PM

360 AO Sales Up 1000%

http://www.xbox360fanboy.com/2007/08/02/xbox-360-hd-dvd-player-sales-rise-1-000/

You really should correct that to 360 AO Sales RANK up 1000%...

Lee Stewart

08-02-07, 01:34 PM

as stated all along, Target will still carry blu ray and HD DVD movies. That has never been debated.

However, Target will increase their blu ray movie inventory while featuring a blu ray standalone player on a end cap that Sony paid for during the holiday season. The only HD DVD player that will be available in stores during the Christmas shopping season will be the 360 add on. After the holiday season, based on consumer feedback, Target will continually monitor theirs customers needs to see if any changes need to be made.

What exactly are the HD DVD supporters contesting??

Has anyone not asked by Toshiba did not offer to pay for an endcap at Target? Do they not want to participate in this format war in America's 2nd largest retailer???

Just a few minor corrections and then I would accept your statement 100%

1. Feature BD titles from Sony, Disney and a 3rd BD studio on the endcap

2. It is a Sony S300 that will be on the endcap

Target is the #5 retailer in the USA

http://www.stores.org/pdf/05JULYTOP100.pdf

Johnsteph10

08-02-07, 01:53 PM

Still no "clarification" huh.... didnt figure so. Its still fun to come check. See ya tomorrow ... same time, no "clarification" then either I bet.

AHHH hahahaha... haha.. sniff.. wait a minute... AHH HAHAHA. You mean you guys are counting console peripherals now. :rolleyes: My lord, yea Im sure they will sell like hotcakes. :D Stinks like desperation in here.

...and yet you BD only guys depend on the PS3, a videogame console as your primary BD machine.

How about we avoid the blatant fanboy/trolling posts?

spacejamz

08-02-07, 01:54 PM

Just a few minor corrections and then I would accept your statement 100%

1. Feature BD titles from Sony, Disney and a 3rd BD studio on the endcap

2. It is a Sony S300 that will be on the endcap

Target is the #5 retailer in the USA

http://www.stores.org/pdf/05JULYTOP100.pdf

guess that Forbes doesn't know what they are talking about then...

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007/07/25/ap3952696.html

LOS ANGELES - Target Corp., the nation's second-largest retailer, will start selling a Sony Blu-ray high-definition DVD player during the critical holiday shopping period and feature the player along with Blu-ray discs in store displays, dealing a potential blow to the rival HD DVD format.

Either that, or the discrepancy is because your list is for 2005 versus their article dated last week...

WayneL

08-02-07, 02:01 PM

Just to let you know I don't think any of our HDM mods take sides, and I want to make sure that's known.

DrDon

08-02-07, 02:09 PM

Aw, thanks, Wayne.

As I've PM'd to a lot of posters in this thread, the main page is pretty much just a magazine rack. There's no editorial decision in what's posted and certainly those articles are not the words of the poster. Tomorrow, there could be an anti-BD article. The next day, an anti-HD-DVD article. We put those up there so you can see what's being reported around the internet. It's like blaming 7-11 for what's on the cover of Newsweek. We just put the stuff up there. You comment on it on these boards. Nothing more.

Now, back to the topic! PLEASE

Doc

Lee Stewart

08-02-07, 02:16 PM

guess that Forbes doesn't know what they are talking about then...

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007/07/25/ap3952696.html

LOS ANGELES - Target Corp., the nation's second-largest retailer, will start selling a Sony Blu-ray high-definition DVD player during the critical holiday shopping period and feature the player along with Blu-ray discs in store displays, dealing a potential blow to the rival HD DVD format.

Either that, or the discrepancy is because your list is for 2005 versus their article dated last week...

Guess what? Forbes is wrong!:

Updated sales listing (2007). . . Target is STILL no. 5

http://www.stores.org/pdf/07TOP100Chart.pdf

wreckshop

08-02-07, 02:22 PM

Wow. Your logic is truly dizzying. I can go to target and buy an XBox 360 and add-on, but that is not an HD player. But if I buy the PS3, that is.

First PS3 is not a player - hd dvd leads BD in player sales. Target says it will sell BD players only - now the 360 add on is a player, and so is PS3. Does that mean BD leads hd dvd in player sales now? Make up your minds already.

spacejamz

08-02-07, 02:32 PM

Guess what? Forbes is wrong!:

Updated sales listing (2007). . . Target is STILL no. 5

http://www.stores.org/pdf/07TOP100Chart.pdf

fine...fifth place according to your list it is....

it really doesn't matter anyway...5th on that list is hardly insignficant...come christmas time at target, it will be mostly blu...and that is a TON of foot traffic that will see only blu... unless they are bending down to tie their shoe in the video game isle....

spacejamz

08-02-07, 02:35 PM

First PS3 is not a player - hd dvd leads BD in player sales. Target says it will sell BD players only - now the 360 add on is a player, and so is PS3. Does that mean BD leads hd dvd in player sales now? Make up your minds already.

uh, won't do you ask Toshiba that first??? they were the first ones to COUNT the PS3 to determine that HD DVD has a better attach rate and then turn around and say that Tohiba has more players because they DONT COUNT the PS3...

of course, that is what I would do if the opposing format already sold 1.6M players in North America...

alfbinet

08-02-07, 02:39 PM

fine...fifth place according to your list it is....

it really doesn't matter anyway...5th on that list is hardly insignficant...come christmas time at target, it will be mostly blu...and that is a TON of foot traffic that will see only blu... unless they are bending down to tie their shoe in the video game isle.... Did Target sign some type of agreement that would forbid them from selling Toshiba an endcap for the A2 before the holiday season?

Everdog

08-02-07, 02:40 PM

fine...fifth place according to your list it is....

it really doesn't matter anyway...5th on that list is hardly insignficant...come christmas time at target, it will be mostly blu...and that is a TON of foot traffic that will see only blu... unless they are bending down to tie their shoe in the video game isle....

I wouldn't worry about hardware sales at Target. The two Targets by me do not even have a TV larger than 30 inches. The Xbox360 space is 4 times larger than the PS3 space though, and most important, the HD DVD software section is the same size as the Blu-Ray one.

Lee Stewart

08-02-07, 03:11 PM

fine...fifth place according to your list it is....

it really doesn't matter anyway...5th on that list is hardly insignficant...come christmas time at target, it will be mostly blu...and that is a TON of foot traffic that will see only blu... unless they are bending down to tie their shoe in the video game isle....

Yep . . .no question . . .you are 100% correct . . . .

$599 32" HDTV's . . . $499 S300 BD player . . . and $25 to $30 priced movies. That should help BD's cause immensley :rolleyes:

patrick99

08-02-07, 03:13 PM

Did Target sign some type of agreement that would forbid them from selling Toshiba an endcap for the A2 before the holiday season?

It is reasonable to infer that the agreement with Sony includes this term.

spacejamz

08-02-07, 03:37 PM

Yep . . .no question . . .you are 100% correct . . . .

$599 32" HDTV's . . . $499 S300 BD player . . . and $25 to $30 priced movies. That should help BD's cause immensley :rolleyes:

yeah, you're right...this whole target thing is just a drop in the bucket...all of the associated media coverage was overlooked...no one is paying attention at all to any of this...

it is just funny because if HD DVD had gotten this agreement with Target, all the HD DVD boys would be singing a different tune about how great Target is...it is very humourous...but since Target selected blu ray, the blu ray supporters can rub it in (to the victor goes the spoils)...

But since the HD DVD PRG apparently can't tell their @ss from a hole in the ground, and hasn't done anythign positive for HD DVD, we will never know, now will we??? are they even trying to get some retailer to feature HD DVD stuff exclusively??? but then again, which retailer would only want 33% of the high def disk sales market???

cybereality

08-02-07, 04:01 PM

But since the HD DVD PRG apparently can't tell their @ss from a hole in the ground, and hasn't done anythign positive for HD DVD, we will never know, now will we??? are they even trying to get some retailer to feature HD DVD stuff exclusively??? but then again, which retailer would only want 33% of the high def disk sales market???The HD-DVD PRG is trying, for better or worse, to play fair. They are taking the proverbial "high road." All they ask for is a fair fight. Equal shelf space and then let the consumer decide. Sony and the BDA are the onces trying to pay off companies, strong arm the market and inflict fear and confusion upon the general public. If HD-DVD starts to play like this then it doesn't matter who wins because *we* lose.

MichaelHDDVD

08-02-07, 04:07 PM

spacejamz

08-02-07, 04:26 PM

The HD-DVD PRG is trying, for better or worse, to play fair. They are taking the proverbial "high road." All they ask for is a fair fight. Equal shelf space and then let the consumer decide. Sony and the BDA are the onces trying to pay off companies, strong arm the market and inflict fear and confusion upon the general public. If HD-DVD starts to play like this then it doesn't matter who wins because *we* lose.

are you being serious here??? this has to be most ridiculous post I have ever read ever (and I have seen a few here)....These are mega corporations with a huge amount of money at stake we are talking about here...they will do whatever they need to do to please their stock holders....

Taking the moral high road??? where was this moral high ground that would have avoided this format war all together??? We all have a good idea of how these corporations operate and all of us know it isn't a pretty picture...

Releasing no movies for the month of March is taking the high road? and now you have proof that the BDA paid blockbuster and BJ's off to become exclusive in-store??? how you do know what Sony paid Target? was it above and beyond the normal rate for end cap space???

Paul Arnette

08-02-07, 04:36 PM

K.L.

08-02-07, 04:48 PM

It appears the HD DVD PRG would rather have a fair fight, whereas Sony and the BDA would rather take steroids and sneak sleeping pills in HD DVD's water during the round 2 of the HD DVD v. Blu-Ray match up.Gimme that steroid you don't need, I'll put it in my wallet! :D

Lee Stewart

08-02-07, 05:25 PM

cybereality

08-02-07, 05:28 PM

Taking the moral high road??? where was this moral high ground that would have avoided this format war all together???It is called the DVD Forum. Sony ended all that when they tried to sabotage HD-DVD and broke off to form the BDA.
Back in 2004, the U.S. Department of Justice made preliminary inquiries into purported efforts by members of the Blu-ray group to use their voting power in the DVD Forum collectively, to thwart development of the HD DVD format.http://www.videobusiness.com/index.asp?layout=talkBackCommentsFull&articleid=CA6458096&talk_back_header_id=6450774

seth.s

08-02-07, 05:36 PM

The HD-DVD PRG is trying, for better or worse, to play fair. They are taking the proverbial "high road." All they ask for is a fair fight.You call the following absurd lies wanting a fair fight?The HD DVD camp was not fazed by the Target decision, pointing out that HD DVD players continue to outsell Blu-ray playersThe Group claims that the HD DVD format holds a 74 percent market share in Britain, Germany, France, Italy, Spain and SwitzerlandAll in the last couple of weeks no less. Taking the "low road" seems much more accurate.

xbdestroya

08-02-07, 05:38 PM

It is called the DVD Forum. Sony ended all that when they tried to sabotage HD-DVD and broke off to form the BDA.

The myth continues to live I see.

The BDA had no choice but to break off - the Blu-ray spec was not legal for submission for DVDs successor; equipment backwards compatibility was a requirement of the proposal process. Blu-ray (in its prototypical form) is older as a format than HD DVD is, and Sony and the majority of major CE companies broke off to support it. People act as if the DVD Forum is some selfless industry arbiter of standards - they're not. People are just really drawn into the name "Forum" I guess, as if suddenly it automatically represents a plurality of the industry.

Supermans

08-02-07, 05:42 PM

The myth continues to live I see.

The BDA had no choice but to break off - the Blu-ray spec was not legal for submission for DVDs successor; equipment backwards compatibility was a requirement of the proposal process. Blu-ray is a hell of a lot older as a format than HD DVD is, and Sony and the majority of major CE companies broke off to support it. People act as if the DVD Forum is some selfless industry arbiter of standards - they're not. People are just really drawn into the name "Forum" I guess, as if suddenly it automatically represents a plurality of the industry.

Well said. :)

cybereality

08-02-07, 05:45 PM

The BDA had no choice but to break off - the Blu-ray spec was not legal for submission for DVDs successor; equipment backwards compatibility was a requirement of the proposal process. Blu-ray (in its prototypical form) is older as a format than HD DVD is, and Sony and the majority of major CE companies broke off to support it.They could have just supported HD-DVD.

xbdestroya

08-02-07, 05:48 PM

They could have just supported HD-DVD.

Yes, they could have; but they didn't, and they was the majority of CE manufacturers as well as Hollywood studios. The stubborn ones were Toshiba, not Sony. Blu-ray recorders had been on sale in Japan for years, and multiple CE companies were actively involved in the creation of the ROM format.

DrDon

08-02-07, 05:51 PM

Starting to drift off topic. Let's get back on, please.

WayneL

08-02-07, 06:14 PM

I wonder if Target is aware of the BD profile system when Sony tries to unload an expensive system on their clients

gtgray

08-02-07, 06:24 PM

Yes, they could have; but they didn't, and they was the majority of CE manufacturers as well as Hollywood studios. The stubborn ones were Toshiba, not Sony. Blu-ray recorders had been on sale in Japan for years, and multiple CE companies were actively involved in the creation of the ROM format.

I have to laugh and what scraps did Sony leave for their CE partners in BD.... talking about getting you know whatted and not getting kissed. Sony they are a peach aren't they? There is no market for any other CE companies in BD. There is only one market in BD and that is the PS3... I can imagine the BD program directors in Sony's CE partners saying "Are we having fun yet?"

greg_mitch

08-02-07, 06:31 PM

In shear percentage of just CE devices, how does Target rank? I don't care about top 100 retailers. Target is not known for its electronics dept...at least not amongst the people I know.

Lee Stewart

08-02-07, 07:55 PM

In shear percentage of just CE devices, how does Target rank? I don't care about top 100 retailers. Target is not known for its electronics dept...at least not amongst the people I know.

Answer:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=884418

LiquidX

08-02-07, 09:45 PM

As I've PM'd to a lot of posters in this thread, the main page is pretty much just a magazine rack. There's no editorial decision in what's posted and certainly those articles are not the words of the poster. Tomorrow, there could be an anti-BD article. The next day, an anti-HD-DVD article. We put those up there so you can see what's being reported around the internet. It's like blaming 7-11 for what's on the cover of Newsweek. We just put the stuff up there. You comment on it on these boards. Nothing more.

A few of us brought this up last night, and someone deleted the posts. I understand that the words may or may not be of the poster, but don't you think it is the responsibility of the poster to, at the very least, make sure what he's posting is 100% factual?

The title of the article is a bit misleading, and the article itself states that Target will no longer be carrying HD DVD titles. That is false. To see inaccurate information on the main page of all places, is not what AVS is about... at least I hope not.

greg_mitch

08-02-07, 10:32 PM

Answer:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=884418

Ok, I am pretty sure that is not what I was asking for. That list is total sales and it is not accurate according to other sites.

I want total CE sales not total retail sales. Walmart and Target get probably less than 15% of their total sales from CE.

I remember reading somewhere that for total CE sales Target accounted for something like 5%, which makes this announcement meaningless. I just don't remember where I read it or if it was just someone spouting off made up numbers [more than likely the latter].

Lee Stewart

08-02-07, 10:36 PM

dhodory

08-03-07, 06:55 AM

Ok, I am pretty sure that is not what I was asking for. That list is total sales and it is not accurate according to other sites.

I want total CE sales not total retail sales. Walmart and Target get probably less than 15% of their total sales from CE.

I remember reading somewhere that for total CE sales Target accounted for something like 5%, which makes this announcement meaningless. I just don't remember where I read it or if it was just someone spouting off made up numbers [more than likely the latter].

Although I haven't done the research myself, I'm betting this information is in their annual report, which most publicly traded companies make available for download from their website. In fact, here's the link to their annual report page: http://investors.target.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=65828&p=irol-reportsAnnual . A quick look at page 5 of Part I indicates that 23% of 2006 sales were "Electronics, Entertainment, Sporting Goods, and Toys", which is a pretty big segment. So, we can now say definitively that less than 23% of Target's sales are electronics.

greg_mitch

08-03-07, 08:38 AM

Thank you for clarifying that this announcement pretty much doesn't hold water. :D

Less than 23% [most likely way less from my experience] from the US's 5th largest retailer.

I bet Amazon.com sells 10 times as many CE devices. ;)

Lee Stewart

08-03-07, 08:59 AM

23% of 2006 sales were "Electronics, Entertainment, Sporting Goods, and Toys",

I think that says it all. Their Toy section is bigger than their CE section. And add the fact that Wal-Mart and Target account for 43% of ALL DVD's sold which is mixed into that line item.

If I were to guess - hardware based CE products account for less than 2% of sales.

Bailey151

08-03-07, 09:01 AM

kheiden

08-03-07, 11:02 AM

C'mon Wal-Mart! Please announce Blu-ray exclusive support soon and put an end to this debate...

Lee Stewart

08-03-07, 11:05 AM

C'mon Wal-Mart! Please announce Blu-ray exclusive support soon and put an end to this debate...

SOLD AT WAL-MART:

Toshiba HD-A2W . . .The "W" stands for Wal-Mart :D

tomes

08-03-07, 11:25 AM

I think that says it all. Their Toy section is bigger than their CE section. And add the fact that Wal-Mart and Target account for 43% of ALL DVD's sold which is mixed into that line item.

If I were to guess - hardware based CE products account for less than 2% of sales.

If Target/Walmart is responsible for selling 43% of all dvd's in the US, imagine the exposure for BluRay then, being the only standalone showed in Target stores around the country..

PS: There is something to say for the Toshiba/MS strategy of selling cheap hardware though - Lee, I'm sure you will appreciate to hear I actually bought a xbox360 AO at BB earlier this week. 149 was too cheap to pass up :)

The funny thing is that I can't use it until I complete building my new htpc. (I don't own the xbox360). I'm also going to have to shell out $75 for playback software, unless MS comes to their senses and integrate a SW player in Vista for free (after all, they are backing HDDVD, so you would think.....)

Anyways, I like the idea of having one machine that can eventually upconvert my dvd's (I only have component on my tv, so standalones typically refuse to upconvert..), play back hddvd, play back bluray, play back dvd-a, media center functionality, and eventually recording of SD and HD for streaming throughout the house.

I would not have thought I'd buy a hddvd before bluray, but that's what happened :)

Lee Stewart

08-03-07, 11:49 AM

If Target/Walmart is responsible for selling 43% of all dvd's in the US, imagine the exposure for BluRay then, being the only standalone showed in Target stores around the country..

PS: There is something to say for the Toshiba/MS strategy of selling cheap hardware though - Lee, I'm sure you will appreciate to hear I actually bought a xbox360 AO at BB earlier this week. 149 was too cheap to pass up :)

The funny thing is that I can't use it until I complete building my new htpc. (I don't own the xbox360). I'm also going to have to shell out $75 for playback software, unless MS comes to their senses and integrate a SW player in Vista for free (after all, they are backing HDDVD, so you would think.....)

Anyways, I like the idea of having one machine that can eventually upconvert my dvd's (I only have component on my tv, so standalones typically refuse to upconvert..), play back hddvd, play back bluray, play back dvd-a, media center functionality, and eventually recording of SD and HD for streaming throughout the house.

I would not have thought I'd buy a hddvd before bluray, but that's what happened :)

IN a store that sells $30 DVD players and $5.50 DVD's. Great exposure. Just shows J6P that BD is too expensive for him. And that kind of exposure is supposed to be good for BD?

tomes

08-03-07, 12:04 PM

IN a store that sells $30 DVD players and $5.50 DVD's. Great exposure. Just shows J6P that BD is too expensive for him. And that kind of exposure is supposed to be good for BD?

I guess both HDM formats are doomed then, so we can stop discussing!!!

No really, the reality is slowly changing. My wife that is not into movies and technology saw the "300" commercial the other day and told me "That will look really good in hi-def". I almost fell off the chair... She also told me that 300-400 dollars isn't that unreasonable for a player, seeing we paid that for a dvd player 5 years ago.

J6P will come around - but prices on players and media will still need to go down of course. No doubt in my mind that the format that gets the most exposure will win at that point. Toshiba needs to get their marketing department off their butts, as well as start signing some strategic deals with Retail if they want to compete.

EDIT: (and this comes from a guy who owns a hddvd player and no BR yet :)

spacejamz

08-03-07, 12:06 PM

IN a store that sells $30 DVD players and $5.50 DVD's. Great exposure. Just shows J6P that BD is too expensive for him. And that kind of exposure is supposed to be good for BD?

can you remind us where J6P's exposure to HD DVD is again? is it everything in the media conveys the message that blu ray is kicking HD DVD ass in everything except standalone sales??

Bailey151

08-03-07, 12:23 PM

can you remind us where J6P's exposure to HD DVD is again? is it everything in the media conveys the message that blu ray is kicking HD DVD ass in everything except standalone sales??
Um....ah............television, an activity tha consumes more the avg consumer's time than strolling through Target?

tomes

08-03-07, 12:32 PM

Um....ah............television, an activity tha consumes more the avg consumer's time than strolling through Target?

Funny but most commercials I see either say "Hi Def" (for dual releases) or "DVD and BluRay". That's why I commented that the Toshiba marketing dept needs to get off their butts. Don't get me wrong, HDDVD has a very nice catalog of movies, but a) they seem to have fewer "big name" releases and b) when they do, it's not marketed properly.

Also, the quality of exposure is higher when you see something in person (assuming a display is set up to run a HD loop).

So put together more BR exposure in tv ads, BDA being better at pushing out "news" and declaring victories, more exposure at retail stores and rental places - everyone should see that Toshiba and DVD has some catching up to do.

(Just as Sony and partners need to get player prices down on their end)

spacejamz

08-03-07, 01:38 PM

Um....ah............television, an activity tha consumes more the avg consumer's time than strolling through Target?

you mean the one commercial with the Soprano dude where everyone with a DVR or VCR just skips over it?

That is going to implant the perception that HD DVD is beating blu ray?

Let's see, which is more effective, that TV commercial or media coverage of stories where retailers are preferring blu ray over HD DVD? the placement of an end cap at one of the largest retailers in the US??? seeing the weekly Neilsen numbers where HD DVD is getting its teeth kicked in?

Face it...HD DVD is getting its ass handed to it in the PR battle of this format...they are losing at everything, so at least they are consistent...

Winn

08-03-07, 08:04 PM

Ok, it is past 5 P.M. on the West Coast. Any word from Target?

Lee Stewart

08-03-07, 08:24 PM

can you remind us where J6P's exposure to HD DVD is again? is it everything in the media conveys the message that blu ray is kicking HD DVD ass in everything except standalone sales??

Sure:

Wal-Mart
Sam's Club
Costco
Best Buy
Circuit City
Staples
Office Depot
Comp USA

That should do it. Looks like a lot of exposure to me.

MichaelHDDVD

08-03-07, 08:30 PM

Sure:

Wal-Mart
Sam's Club
Costco
Best Buy
Circuit City
Staples
Office Depot
Comp USA

That should do it. Looks like a lot of exposure to me.

and TV commercials where all of Universal's advertisements says "Coming to DVD and HD DVD"

Bailey151

08-03-07, 08:33 PM

Let's see, which is more effective, that TV commercial or media coverage of stories where retailers are preferring blu ray over HD DVD? the placement of an end cap at one of the largest retailers in the US??? seeing the weekly Neilsen numbers where HD DVD is getting its teeth kicked in?

Face it...HD DVD is getting its ass handed to it in the PR battle of this format...they are losing at everything, so at least they are consistent...
Haven't seen anything but HD DVD commericals in a couple months, zero TV media coverage, and quite a bit of traffic on AV specific web sites. An end cap? LMAO - yeah, $500 BD player are Target customer's bread & butter - goes well with the $500 HDTV. And they're small fry in CE sales.

Ah, the Neilsen numbers cherry. The pittance that is HDM sales only shows little, aside from long term viability & anyone who thinks a 2:1 sales (actually better written 3:2) with a 5:1 hardware advantage is a true highlight has little understanding of how corporations view markets.

Does Sony do a good job with PR? Yep, excellent - they are making the most of what they have.

Lee Stewart

08-03-07, 09:24 PM

and TV commercials where all of Universal's advertisements says "Coming to DVD and HD DVD"

A very popular HD channel. Universal High Definition (UHD)

tomes

08-03-07, 10:41 PM

I think the point would be that either a store-chain has pretty equal exposure for BR and HDDVD, or it favors BR. No retail chains favor HDDVD as a company policy, I believe. In the rental business, the major player Blockbuster will only be showing off BR in their stores.

Would be fun if someone had numbers to verify which camp has better tv commercial exposure. On major networks, it sure feels like BR has the edge to me.

Universal HD is very popular? I have all the hd channels and rarely watch this one. The only thing I've watched there is Battlestar Galactica. Tonight's program consists of blockbuster movies such as Harlem Nights and Cross my Heart and reruns of Law and Order, and Northern Exposure.

I don't think there is ONE HD (only) channel that can be considered very popular.. That said, it certainly makes sense to advertise there too, since you of course hits a market that has the necessary equipment plus interest.

One area where I feel Universal is pretty good is adding HDDVD commercials on the regular dvd's. They seem more consistent than Sony, Fox, Disney on this front.

MozartMan

08-03-07, 11:58 PM

Target doesn't have HD-DVD players online any more:

primetimeguy

08-04-07, 12:21 AM

Target doesn't have HD-DVD players online any more:

Very interesting. Have they always had the BDPS300 for sale online or is that new too?

Lee Stewart

08-04-07, 12:25 AM

JTYoung

08-04-07, 12:28 AM

It could simply mean that the unit is out of stock too.

xbdestroya

08-04-07, 12:40 AM

Not 8/3/07 @ 5:00 PM yet . . . "next week"

.

mrseder

08-04-07, 12:51 AM

...with a 5:1 hardware advantage...I wish all you HDDVD folks would get together in a room and decide once and for all whether you're going to count the PS3 or not. It gets damned confusing.

Sean_O

08-04-07, 12:59 AM

I wish all you HDDVD folks would get together in a room and decide once and for all whether you're going to count the PS3 or not. It gets damned confusing.

Just want to point out that your screen name fits perfectly.

tomes

08-04-07, 01:00 AM

What each person watches is a matter of personal taste. No one is right and no one is wrong. Just a matter of being able to watch what we like in HD. When I started watching HD - the only program on was Jay Leno - 1 hour a day and it started so late.

Reminds me when Color first came out. Only two programs on - WW of Disney and Bonanza. . . Both on Sunday night. So 2 hours a week progressed to 5 hours a week when HD arrived. And they call that progress? :eek:

Yup, I always get disappointed if there's a show that is not broadcast in hd these days. I'll also admit that sometimes one may actually choose to see HD programs one normally wouldn't watch if it was in SD only :)

Lee Stewart

08-04-07, 01:00 AM

Originally Posted by Lee Stewart
Not 8/3/07 @ 5:00 PM yet . . . "next week"

.

Are you asking me is that my post? It is. But I posted that to tell someone what the deadline was. I was not expecting Target to say anything other than that published single paragraph from the woman PR person. That was the press release.

IMO Target is the last place one would want to sell a $499 priced BD player along with a $49.99 priced movie. High traffic stores - no question on that. Sales? Very questionable.

How does one feel to want something that they can't afford or justify?

Nescio

08-04-07, 01:09 AM

xbdestroya

08-04-07, 01:30 AM

Are you asking me is that my post? It is. But I posted that to tell someone what the deadline was.

Oh I know - I was that person. Just thought I'd highlight the lack of press release on the matter, and the expiration of your time allowance.

Major Nelson: the authority on format war press room activity.

alfbinet

08-04-07, 01:31 AM

So yes. Costco.com has stopped, over the last week or so, selling the Toshiba apparently. At some point they were HD DVD exclusive, both for hardware and software.

Right now, they sell the Sony S300 but no more HD DVD standalones. And their software is about 4:1 BD.

Have they announced BD only for the holidays? Or from this point forward BD only? Link please. If there is a deal, does it mean that they can not sell HD DVD players in their stores per their agreement with the BD group? Interested readers would like to know.

MozartMan

08-04-07, 08:44 AM

Have they announced BD only for the holidays? Or from this point forward BD only? Link please.

www.costco.com

www.target.com

WayneL

08-04-07, 09:01 AM

Geez, has Tosh outsold their stock again?

Rich Peterson

08-04-07, 09:04 AM

JBlacklow

08-04-07, 09:11 AM

A very popular HD channel. Universal High Definition (UHD)UniversalHD has run advertisements for Blu-ray a whole bunch of times. They ran the Pirates ads, and they were running "Casino Royale only on Blu-ray Disc" once or twice an hour when it came out:

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/4773/att01721jt6.jpg

Lee Stewart

08-04-07, 09:27 AM

Business is business. You don't turn down advertising dollars.

Greg Kettell

08-04-07, 09:37 AM

UniversalHD has run advertisements for Blu-ray a whole bunch of times. They ran the Pirates ads, and they were running "Casino Royale only on Blu-ray Disc" once or twice an hour when it came out:

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/4773/att01721jt6.jpg

Ouch.

WayneL

08-04-07, 09:50 AM

Ouch.
That was last March

JBlacklow

08-04-07, 10:18 AM

No, that was this March. The POTC "only on Blu-ray" ads that went over the BD-J functions were on in May and June. You will see SM3 "only on Blu-ray ads" on UniversalHD in a month and a half or so, followed by POTC 3 ads saying the same in November.

Lee Stewart

08-04-07, 10:23 AM

I don't understand the significance of this. Yes i do understand the irony but money talks. It's like Toshiba has 11% (according to iSuppli) of the revenue that Sony spends to build the PS3 due to components that Sony buys from Toshiba. This will go down because the Emotion Chip in the 60GB will not be in the 80GB and Toshiba makes that chip.

Only people here at AVS would make an issue of BD advertising on UHD.

plazman

08-04-07, 10:58 AM

Doesn't Costco.com only list products in stock? This would indicate high demand for the Tosh players and relatively poor demand for the Sony one, which I was expecting to sell well but apparently isn't.

As for software sales, we know the aggregate difference is a less than 2:1 ratio so if as betaboy claims BD is outselling HD DVD by 4:1 in BB and Costco has a simular 4:1 ratio....other retailers must be having HD DVD doing much better.

You bet IF costco went BD exclusive Sony would make a big deal out of it....In fact IF the Sony player outsold the Tosh they would have a PR event. You can bet on it. Fact is Tosh standalones are just selling better all around - everywhere. Fact is fact.

plazman

08-04-07, 11:16 AM

OK, I didn' want to wade through several pages of bickering but it looks like the promised clarification from Target saying they weren't really exclusive on standalone players didn't happen, right? No surprise there, it's already clear what is happening.

The bottom line is that Target is going to exclusively sell BD standalone players in their B&M stores (i.e. they will not sell any HD DVD standlone players in stores) but they will sell the add-on and they will still sell HD DVD disks. It's not clear how long this arrangement will last.

You can debate the merits of this all you want, but it's silly to debate what is actually happening.

You are confusing what is happening. Sony has a deal to showcase a specific BD player on an end cap. It is not a general BD hardware support....Target NEVER said they were BD exclusive, so why the clarification?

No BD standalone has sold well to date....NONE. That is what is really happening. Tosh players are outselling ALL BD standalones combined. Actually the A-2 is outselling ALL BD players combined!

The xbox add on is the #2 selling HDM player after the PS3....but is a dedicated player (unlike the PS3). Go figure!

The BD FUD and lies seem to flow like water :rolleyes:

MozartMan

08-04-07, 11:18 AM

Doesn't Costco.com only list products in stock? This would indicate high demand for the Tosh players and relatively poor demand for the Sony one, which I was expecting to sell well but apparently isn't.
plazman,

You need to try harder to spin good news for BD.

If Costco doesn't list products online it means it doesn't sell them. If product is out of stock, Costco says that it is out of stock.

xbdestroya

08-04-07, 11:18 AM

Target NEVER said they were BD exclusive, so why the clarification?

The first part of the sentence no one disputes. The second part of the sentence is because Major Nelson - you know, a high-profile Microsoft spinster? - said that one was coming (for 'clarification' purposes). Of course, nothing actually did.

MozartMan

08-04-07, 11:21 AM

You are confusing what is happening. Sony has a deal to showcase a specific BD player on an end cap. It is not a general BD hardware support....Target NEVER said they were BD exclusive, so why the clarification?

No BD standalone has sold well to date....NONE. That is what is really happening. Tosh players are outselling ALL BD standalones combined. Actually the A-2 is outselling ALL BD players combined!

The xbox add on is the #2 selling HDM player after the PS3....but is a dedicated player (unlike the PS3). Go figure!

The BD FUD and lies seem to flow like water :rolleyes:
plazman,

I think you are very confused. And everybody knows that you are HD-DVD FUDmaster.

Tosh players are outselling ALL BD standalones combined. Actually the A-2 is outselling ALL BD players combined!

Target doesn't sell HD-DVD stand alone players any more!

What a FUD.

thebland

08-04-07, 11:22 AM

plazman

08-04-07, 11:23 AM

plazman,

You need to try harder to spin good news for BD.

If Costco doesn't list products online it means it doesn't sell them. If product is out of stock, Costco says that it is out of stock.

cool! Can you show me a link to a product with an out of stock message then? As they say, trust but verify :)

Lee Stewart

08-04-07, 11:26 AM

Plaz,

No HD DVD in Target stores. Funny how the low selling, expensive Blu Ray players are still the player of choice for in store sales. Target will specifically eliminate HD DVD standalones frm all their stores for the holiday.

All truth.

....Ever think they know somethnig you don't. Or should they hire you for their merchandising?!:D

How can you substantiate this when only two retailers have made a choice and only one (a regional retailer) is BD exclusive. And neither are big players when it comes to player sales.

Maybe that choice had some influence behind it?

MozartMan

08-04-07, 11:26 AM

cool! Can you show me a link to a product with an out of stock message then? As they say, trust but verify :)
Take a look at the JPEG attachment in my post and tell me what you see under HD-DVD section on the Target website. :D

Slim GoodBooty

08-04-07, 11:26 AM

plazman

08-04-07, 11:26 AM

Plaz,

No HD DVD in Target stores. Funny how the low selling, expensive Blu Ray players are still the player of choice for in store sales. Target will specifically eliminate HD DVD standalones frm all their stores for the holiday.

All truth.

....Ever think they know somethnig you don't. Or should they hire you for their merchandising?!:D

You do know everything you wrote here is false!

1. ALL Targets will have HD DVD

2. Target said specifically they do not have a player of choice. Sony paid them for an end cap.

3. NO HD DVD Player is being eliminated.

4. We don't know what their final holiday display will be. IF they will have an HD DVD end cap as well....

Please point me to a Target release that verifies what you say. just more lies from the bda :)

MozartMan

08-04-07, 11:28 AM

plazman

08-04-07, 11:29 AM

Take a look at the JPEG attachment in my post and tell me what you see under HD-DVD section on the Target website. :D

I was referring specifically to Costco!

Someone said Costco was eliminating HD DVD Players from costco.com. This is NOT true. Costco AFAIK does not list out of stock items on their web site.

plazman

08-04-07, 11:40 AM

Take a look at the JPEG attachment in my post and tell me what you see under HD-DVD section on the Target website. :D

Can you post a screenshot of an out of stock electronics item? Target said they are stocking HD DVD players online. Perhaps high demand and they sold out.

plazman

08-04-07, 11:41 AM

plazman,

As I said you need to try harder to spin good news for BD. Your questions have been asked already million times.

Really. Fact is spin and spin is now fact ;)

WOW. The BDA press corp is really working on you :)

eskimo2176

08-04-07, 12:01 PM

plazman,

As I said you need to try harder to spin good news for BD. Your questions have been asked already million times.

These guys really can't take the fact that they are going to lose. That's all this is about. They've so emotionally invested in the format, that they can't stand the fact it's going to fail.

I don't care who wins, but I do know that we need a winner. If Target is helping to further that goal, wonderful.

plazman

08-04-07, 12:04 PM

These guys really can't take the fact that they are going to lose. That's all this is about. They've so emotionally invested in the format, that they can't stand the fact it's going to fail.

I don't care who wins, but I do know that we need a winner. If Target is helping to further that goal.

Do you own a PS3?

tomes

08-04-07, 12:10 PM

Mods, where are you? I think this thread is due for closing. Seems like it's only bickering going on..

Let's just summarize the facts right now and get on with other stuff...

1. Target has issued a press release saying that Sony will have end caps showing of the Sony player in their stores. For the time being (until Target states otherwise), BDA has the only stand alone player sold there. Target will however contine to sell Xbox360AO and PS3.
2. HDDVD software will continue to be available in stores as well as BD titles.
3. HDDVD players will still be sold at Target's online shop.
4. With this Target announcement, Sony CURRENTLY has more support among the retail businesses. (Other chains either support both, or only BD. None are HDDVD exclusives)

Supermans

08-04-07, 12:19 PM

You do know everything you wrote here is false!

1. ALL Targets will have HD DVD

2. Target said specifically they do not have a player of choice. Sony paid them for an end cap.

3. NO HD DVD Player is being eliminated.

4. We don't know what their final holiday display will be. IF they will have an HD DVD end cap as well....

Please point me to a Target release that verifies what you say. just more lies from the bda :)

Go to Target.com and in the search, type in "HD DVD"... You will see a whole lot of HD TV's HD and upconvert SD-DVD players. You find the 360 add-on drive on page 2... You call that HD DVD support???

http://www.target.com/gp/search.html/601-1312454-8548946?ie=UTF8&index=target&field-browse=1038576&ref=sr%5Fbx%5F1%5F1&field-keywords=hd%20dvd&page=1

In fact, click on the link above which is an "HD DVD" search on Target's website and you find the Sony Blu-Ray DVD Player - BDPS300 as one of your choices... lol

Target will be stocking up on Blu-Ray's at aprox a 4:1 ratio in comparison to HD DVD because that is close to the ratio that Blu-Ray is outselling HD DVD in store. If somehow they sell out of all their HD DVD's and people demand they carry more, then perhaps they change to a 3:1 or 2:1 ratio, however the market decides that, not Sony. Both Sony and Toshiba pay for end-caps all the time, however this decision is far greater than just an end-cap purchase...If not, it wouldn't be newsworthy. The difference with Target is no matter how much money Toshiba throws at Target for an end-cap, Target will refuse their offers since they want Blu-Ray to continue to gain the lead and eventually win..

thebland

08-04-07, 12:21 PM

Plaz,

No HD DVD standalones at Target stores..... Spin that!:D

eskimo2176

08-04-07, 12:26 PM

Do you own a PS3?

Yes and a 360 add on.

Lee Stewart

08-04-07, 12:28 PM

eskimo2176

08-04-07, 12:30 PM

Nothing to spin. The truth itself may be enough.

Target has decided to show it's shoppers the BD format and all it entales:

1. $499 movie player
2. $49.99 priced movie (SPM3)

Does anyone here think this is the price demographics for a Target shopper?

Uh , yeah, I shop Target all of the time. Target is not Walmart. It's still discount but with a different marketing approach.

Supermans

08-04-07, 12:30 PM

How can you substantiate this when only two retailers have made a choice and only one (a regional retailer) is BD exclusive. And neither are big players when it comes to player sales.

Maybe that choice had some influence behind it?

Lee, why don't you do some research as to what percentage of total SD-DVD sales that Target accounts for within the US and perhaps you will change your "Target is not a Big Player" tune....

Here is a little help below in-case you're having some trouble..

http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0610target.html

And here is Toshiba lowering its expectations on player sales. Target not carrying them anymore will also play into lowering their expectations as well in some future report...

http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/10076.cfm

And this is a very good article about Target going Blu..

http://tech.monstersandcritics.com/news/article_1335655.php/HD-DVD_no_longer_on_Target_for_format_win

"Target has revealed that it will also be widening its stock selection of Blu-ray movie discs to tie-in with the enhanced hardware support."

Everdog

08-04-07, 12:35 PM

plazman

08-04-07, 12:37 PM

Plaz,

No HD DVD standalones at Target stores..... Spin that!:D

No PS3 on Target.com either! Only xbox 360 and HD DVD add on.

Also, if you factor in intention to sell. The Add on is $169, so discounted $10 from street prices. The Sony BDP 300 is MSRP - which means you can get it cheaper elsewhere....

So you see, Target really wants you to buy the Add-On :)

Hey....PS3 60GB isn't even listed on Target.com. So they have dropped the current PS2 model?

Yeah...I like how the BDA tries to create FUD out of anything....

They have around 220 HD DVD titles and 250 BD titles....

On Target.com you can buy the Sony BDP 300 and the xbox add on. So one player each. You can also buy a 360 online. The PS3 is NOT even listed as an item you can buy. NOW IS THAT NEWS!!!!!!!

Like my sig says.....

Lee Stewart

08-04-07, 12:38 PM

Lee, why don't you do some research as to what percentage of total SD-DVD sales that Target accounts for within the US and perhaps you will change your "Target is not a Big Player" tune....

Target sells DVD's for $5.50 and $7.50 . . a whole wall of them. So how does this equate to selling HDM movies for $25 to $40?

Supermans

08-04-07, 12:42 PM

Target sells DVD's for $5.50 and $7.50 . . a whole wall of them. So how does this equate to selling HDM movies for $25 to $40?

It's called exposure my friend. Those people who go to target in groves to buy their SD-DVD's will take notice to the emerging Sony Blu-Ray end-cap and Blu-Ray movie's in those blue cases...And guess what, no competition from HD DVD.. So do you understand now Lee???

And I take it you haven't been in a Target lately..Those prices you quoted do not reflect Blu-Ray titles sold in-store...Many titles are $19.. I just pruchased Terminator 2 for $19.95 the other day. :)

Lee Stewart

08-04-07, 12:50 PM

It's called exposure my friend. Those people who go to target in groves to buy their SD-DVD's will take notice to the emerging Sony Blu-Ray end-cap and Blu-Ray movie's in those blue cases...And guess what, no competition from HD DVD.. So do you understand now Lee???

And I take it you haven't been in a Target lately..Those prices you quoted do not reflect Blu-Ray titles sold in-store...Many titles are $19..

Exposure? To a high priced HD format?

Yes - I have a Target less than 2 miles from me. They sell the HD titles at the same price as BB and CC - $29.99 sells for $24.99. They used to sell the $29.98 titles at $19.98 but my Target stopped that months ago. I bought three of the $20 HD DVD titles I own there - now I use Amazon.

WayneL

08-04-07, 12:51 PM

I think Target will come to its senses when they realize they're selling an over-priced, crippled player to their clients

MozartMan

08-04-07, 12:55 PM

Mods, where are you? I think this thread is due for closing.

Moderators? Where are you?

Truth does hurt, doesn't it?

econley

08-04-07, 01:08 PM

What truth is it that hurts? That one format will win over the other or adults have been reduced to school yard arguments? Here is one truth, Target's search function is crap. Looking at the posts above are arguments that you only find the HD add on and no PS3.

After clicking on the link for an HD DVD search provided by Supermans I then clicked on DVD and all these HD DVD movies came up
http://www.target.com/gp/search.html******sr_ln_17/602-9112677-2737417?ie=UTF8&index=dvd&field-keywords=hd%20dvd

Plaz says no PS3 on Target, here is what I found typing in playstation 3
http://www.target.com/gp/search.html/602-9112677-2737417?field-keywords=playstation+3&url=index%3Dtarget&ref=sr_bx_1_1

In the end this is just a movie format.

thebland

08-04-07, 01:09 PM

Plaz,

No HD DVD standalones at Target stores..... Spin that!

No PS3 on Target.com either! Only xbox 360 and HD DVD add on.

Also, if you factor in intention to sell. The Add on is $169, so discounted $10 from street prices. The Sony BDP 300 is MSRP - which means you can get it cheaper elsewhere....

So you see, Target really wants you to buy the Add-On :)

Hey....PS3 60GB isn't even listed on Target.com. So they have dropped the current PS2 model?

Yeah...I like how the BDA tries to create FUD out of anything....

They have around 220 HD DVD titles and 250 BD titles....

On Target.com you can buy the Sony BDP 300 and the xbox add on. So one player each. You can also buy a 360 online. The PS3 is NOT even listed as an item you can buy. NOW IS THAT NEWS!!!!!!!

Like my sig says.....

When I said 'spin that', I was being sarcastic...But boy you spun a long-winded answer that had zero to do with the question. You and Lee are experts that even Bill O'Reilly would be proud of!!!:D

So, you just can't bring yourself to even admit that Target will have no Toshiba standalones in their stores for Christmas. Even though it was verified in their presss release.. It hurts that much??

JBlacklow

08-04-07, 01:09 PM

No PS3 on Target.com either! Only xbox 360 and HD DVD add on.Oh, plazman. Your lies are so easy to debunk (http://www.target.com/gp/browse.html/601-2599472-7552143?ie=UTF8&node=296579011&index=target&field-browse=296579011&rank=pmrank&field-pricebin=%24500-%24999).
Hey....PS3 60GB isn't even listed on Target.com. So they have dropped the current PS2 model?Again, "not listed" in your mind doesn't translate to the real world (http://www.target.com/gp/detail.html******sc_fe_l_1_1042122_1/601-2599472-7552143?ie=UTF8&asin=B0009VXAM0).
Yeah...I like how the BDA tries to create FUD out of anything....You mean like these classic PRG lines:

600 titles by the end of the year! Well, only if you count the same releases of a title in all the different countries that we release in.
We're winning in Europe! Well, only if you don't count software sales or the PS3.
We're selling 2 million Toshibas by the end of the year! Well, actually, we mean 1.2 million, but we're 700,000 units away from reaching that goal anyway.
We're releasing Spielberg films! Wait, nevermind, we weren't allowed.
Our specs are finalized! Wait, we have TL51 discs! Oh, and if they ever come out, you might not be able to play them at all in current players.Looks like the FUD that you love to scream about is just as thick over at Toshiba.
On Target.com you can buy the Sony BDP 300 and the xbox add on. So one player each. You can also buy a 360 online. The PS3 is NOT even listed as an item you can buy. NOW IS THAT NEWS!!!!!!!

Like my sig says.....And once again, you were proven to be wrong. Just as you were with an insider, and in sales, and as you have been many times before. So, I guess your sig is quite hypocritical, now.

Supermans

08-04-07, 01:14 PM

Exposure? To a high priced HD format?

Yes - I have a Target less than 2 miles from me. They sell the HD titles at the same price as BB and CC - $29.99 sells for $24.99. They used to sell the $29.98 titles at $19.98 but my Target stopped that months ago. I bought three of the $20 HD DVD titles I own there - now I use Amazon.

Exposure in many different ways from all sorts of angles is already helping Blu-Ray gain the publics support over HD-DVD. You have to admit that Sony's marketing is 1,000 times better than anything Toshiba and Microsoft have been able to come up with for HD-DVD in a long time. (Toshiba send new demo material to store end-caps at least and hire someone to clean up the end-cap as well) To do what Sony has done which is to take the lead in this format war after the lead and early adopter support HD-DVD once had is quite remarkable. HD-DVD had many chances to trounce upon Blu-Ray when it was first launched and failed miserably by having a dearth of releases for many months and simply watched Blu-Ray zoom past them. HD-DVD's market analysts should have been fired for their incompetence however I fear they still remain since nothing new has been done since then other than lowering player prices. Blu-Ray's 5 free BD's get to their customers in about a month. It takes 4 to 5 months for Toshiba to get their 5 free movie's out to customers... That is a huge disparity... Couple all the problems people have with combo discs and still, HD-DVD supporting studio's seem to think they are a good thing. Which goes back to the marketing analysts who said Combo's will be the deciding factor that will help win this format war.. Boy were they wrong..And yet they still have jobs since 300 has been released in combo format and at least 30% of people have problems during playback including me.. HD-DVD has "everything in their favor going against them" at this point. Low prices of players should be something in their favor however it is going against them since they haven't re-gained any lead whatsoever and they can't lower the prices any more.. Combo's which were supposed to be in their favor because it would allow people who don't have HD-DVD players to spend money on a future format so that when they do buy a player, they have some discs available. Great concept, however it has worked against them because it has made the Blu-Ray versions seem cheaper by comparison for the same movie..

Exposure to Blockbuster's Blu-Ray rentals as well which costs the same as renting regular SD-DVD's for the most part helps Blu-Ray. You have to understand that the same arguments were being made about SD-DVD's when they first arrived. They are expensive, and so were the players.. However exposure and curiosity both played a huge roll in SD-DVD's adoption and acceptance as they already are in this format war..

Everdog

08-04-07, 01:19 PM

Looks like the FUD that you love to scream about is just as thick over at Toshiba.

Sorry, but the "dead in six months" was the worst and funniest. The BDA and Sony are the leaders in FUD. I have also found the BD fanboys to the worst posters. In just a few hours I saw you guys had posts calling people things like "ass" and all kinds of other personal attacks.

Lighten up. Go watch a Blu-Ray movie, and quit making everything personal.

Lee Stewart

08-04-07, 01:24 PM

When I said 'spin that', I was being sarcastic...But boy you spun a long-winded answer that had zero to do with the question. You and Lee are experts that even Bill O'Reilly would be proud of!!!:D

So, you just can't bring yourself to even admit that Target will have no Toshiba standalones in their stores for Christmas. Even though it was verified in their presss release.. It hurts that much??

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x66/LeeAStewart/troll_2.jpg

MozartMan

08-04-07, 01:26 PM

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x66/LeeAStewart/troll_2.jpg
Lee,

Is this self portrait? :D

MauneyM

08-04-07, 01:26 PM

Supermans

08-04-07, 01:27 PM

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x66/LeeAStewart/troll_2.jpg

Lee, you have to stop posting pictures of yourself ;) That's a bad hobbit I mean habbit you have there ;)

So lets get back on topic here....

Everdog

08-04-07, 01:30 PM

Truth does hurt, doesn't it?

Its not the truth, but the personal attacks that BR fans are fond of, that I do not like.

As for the truth, answer this simple YES or NO question. This fall can someone walk in to Target buy an Xbox360+ add-on and several HD DVD titles then go home and watch them?

YES or NO.

Now, is Target Blu-Ray exclusive? YES or NO.

Watch the BR fanboys come out of the woodwork and add their FUD to these 2 simple questions.

Everdog

08-04-07, 01:32 PM

MozartMan

Is this self portrait? :D

As I have posted before BR fans are all about personal attacks. What more proof do you need?

Supermans

08-04-07, 01:43 PM

Personally, I think this whole conversation is irrelevant.

The Target near my office carries about 10 DVD players of various types. The most expensive is somewherearound $119, IIRC. They also carry a roughly equal number of BD and HD DVD titles; somewhere around a dozen of each.

Now, explain to me how dropping a $449 player into a rack of $49-99 players is competitive? I have a hard time believing that this will make ANY difference in the total hardware sales.....

Like I said before, its all about exposure. HD-DVD will not have the same exposure at Target or Blockbuster which over time will be devastating since public perception about the formats is at this point most important. That is why Dale Earnhardt Jr. supporting and doing Blu-Ray commercials would be HUGE in the public eye. You better believe that by Christmas, there will be some big named celebrities endorsing Blu-Ray.. Not to mention the studio support and HUGE blockbusters coming out this Christmas...I have yet to hear of any HD DVD movie to combat all those blockbusters by SOny and Dinsey from the Universal camp..

Lee Stewart

08-04-07, 02:05 PM

Supermans . . You said the following: (sorry to pick your post apart)

Couple all the problems people have with combo discs and still, HD-DVD supporting studio's seem to think they are a good thing.

From The Digital Bits (of all places)

Now then... on the 300 HD-DVD issue, if you're having a playback problem with the disc in any way, make sure you've updated your player with the very latest firmware, and then try again. If you're still having problems after that, please drop us an e-mail and we'll follow up with Warner and Toshiba.

Looks more like an issue of people not using the latest firmware upgrade as opposed to a manufacturing defect

Boy were they wrong..And yet they still have jobs since 300 has been released in combo format and at least 30% of people have problems during playback including me..

Where did you get the 30% number from? Link please

Low prices of players should be something in their favor however it is going against them since they haven't re-gained any lead whatsoever and they can't lower the prices any more..

Who said Toshiba can't lower their prices any more? You? We expect to see the new A3 MSRP for $199 during the last 5 weeks of the year. Less expensive to manufacturer - less components in it.

So what happens when one of the BDA companies finally releases a movie with 1.1 PIP in it? Think some consumers are going to howl that they can't take advantage of this new feature?

Or Sony issues a firmware updrade to the S300? No ability to access the internet from an S300. They will have to wait for a CD in the mail - if they sent in the warranty card or did it online. Do ALL Target shoppers do this?

JBlacklow

08-04-07, 02:22 PM

Who said Toshiba can't lower their prices any more? You? We expect to see the new A3 MSRP for $199 during the last 5 weeks of the year.To quote you: LINK?

Oh, wait, nevermind, I know what I'm talking about:Toshiba is set to launch its 3rd generation HD DVD players on October 1st. The three new models include the HD-A3 ($299), HD-A30($399), and the flagship HD-A35($499).
http://formatwarcentral.com/index.php/2007/08/02/toshiba-to-launch-3rd-gen-hd-dvd-players-october-1st-hd-a3-hd-a30-hd-a35/

It took Toshiba 13 months to drop prices to $299, and you think it's going to happen in 5 weeks? Look, you've already made ~20 posts today. Didn't they tell you that you're not supposed to work on a weekend?

Lee Stewart

08-04-07, 02:36 PM

To quote you: LINK?

Oh, wait, nevermind, I know what I'm talking about:
http://formatwarcentral.com/index.php/2007/08/02/toshiba-to-launch-3rd-gen-hd-dvd-players-october-1st-hd-a3-hd-a30-hd-a35/

It took Toshiba 13 months to drop prices to $299, and you think it's going to happen in 5 weeks? Look, you've already made ~20 posts today. Didn't they tell you that you're not supposed to work on a weekend?

Another ScoreKeeper? That makes 3 now. This must be very important to all of you. Why take the time and the effort to look it up?

As far as the $199 price . . . 10/1/07 - A3 is released and sells for $299. From 11/24/07 to 12/31/07 . . MSRP drops to $199. Speculation based on Toshiba wanting to hit their 1 million sold goal and selling 500,000 in 5 weeks . . THE prime selling time for CE products.

Fact? no of course not. Used the word "expect" which has a degree of uncertainty in it.

frasersean

08-04-07, 02:42 PM

No PS3 on Target.com either! Only xbox 360 and HD DVD add on.

Also, if you factor in intention to sell. The Add on is $169, so discounted $10 from street prices. The Sony BDP 300 is MSRP - which means you can get it cheaper elsewhere....

So you see, Target really wants you to buy the Add-On :)

Hey....PS3 60GB isn't even listed on Target.com. So they have dropped the current PS2 model?

Yeah...I like how the BDA tries to create FUD out of anything....

They have around 220 HD DVD titles and 250 BD titles....

On Target.com you can buy the Sony BDP 300 and the xbox add on. So one player each. You can also buy a 360 online. The PS3 is NOT even listed as an item you can buy. NOW IS THAT NEWS!!!!!!!

Like my sig says.....

I think you need to slow down your posting and do a bit of looking around before making your self look like a moron....

http://www.target.com/gp/detail.html/sr=1-2/qid=1186252541******sr_1_2/601-4329414-5603338?ie=UTF8&asin=B000MWE0R0

http://www.target.com/gp/detail.html/sr=1-1/qid=1186252541******sr_1_1/601-4329414-5603338?ie=UTF8&asin=B000MWAGFU

http://www.target.com/gp/detail.html/sr=1-4/qid=1186252541******sr_1_4/601-4329414-5603338?ie=UTF8&asin=B000TVT8PI