http://spirit.tau.ac.il/public/gandal/dvdnew.pdf

On another thread I learned that, despite the broad agreement of consumer electronic manufacturers (including both Sony & Toshiba) to support DVD, for a while there was some competition attempted by some to adopt an unusual alternative called DIVX. This competition does not appear to have been in the same league as the current Blu-ray/HD-DVD "battle" but a study of it can hold lessons for today. So I'm linking to a study that may have bearing on current happenings and speed of adoption of a new hi-def video format.

Do you think this study and its conclusions are relevant?

http://spirit.tau.ac.il/public/gandal/dvdnew.pdf

On another thread I learned that, despite the broad agreement of consumer electronic manufacturers (including both Sony & Toshiba) to support DVD, for a while there was some competition attempted by some to adopt an unusual alternative called DIVX. This competition does not appear to have been in the same league as the current Blu-ray/HD-DVD "battle" but a study of it can hold lessons for today. So I'm linking to a study that may have bearing on current happenings and speed of adoption of a new hi-def video format.

Do you think this study and its conclusions are relevant?

DIVX was a radical venture. It died a very quick death and cost Circuit City a ton of money. I don't see any reference between DIVX/DVD and HD DVD/BRD. Yes you needed a special player for each but the DIVX system was based on pay-per-view which made it so unpopular. Now you buy a HDM player and a movie - play it as many times as you want - no extra charge other than the cost of the equipment and the movie.

A better reference would be DIVX to VOD/PPV but DIVX never went anywhere.

http://spirit.tau.ac.il/public/gandal/dvdnew.pdf

On another thread I learned that, despite the broad agreement of consumer electronic manufacturers (including both Sony & Toshiba) to support DVD, for a while there was some competition attempted by some to adopt an unusual alternative called DIVX. This competition does not appear to have been in the same league as the current Blu-ray/HD-DVD "battle" but a study of it can hold lessons for today. So I'm linking to a study that may have bearing on current happenings and speed of adoption of a new hi-def video format.

Do you think this study and its conclusions are relevant?

DIVX did slow the adoption of DVD intially until most consumers realized what a pile of h@rsesh!t DIVX was trying to pull. Basically they wanted to sell you a rental disc that you kept in your library and paid for viewing windows when you pulled it off of your shelf.

DIVX and at the time CC CEO, Dick "and he was one" Sharp, were spreading FUD among early DVD adopters (some who just purchased a DVD player at CC). I still remember that initial DIVX conference call where typical CEO smugness backfired on Sharp. Basically he said too bad if you bought DVD, but DIVX is better. You have to remember at this time sell through priced media for feature films(new releases) was still in its early stages (new VHS releases retailed for over $100). The idea of having a DVD available on release day at $20 to $25 scared a lot of companies. Plus a lot companies with the advent of the internet viewed that as way to get tied directly to a consumers wallet.

Within hours of that DIVX conference, a grassroots movement started on the internet with anti-DIVX sentiment. Tech-savvy consumers saw through what DIVX was trying to do. Your movie collection is not yours. It is ours and we want cash anytime you put it in your player.

Plus CC just PO'd a bunch of possible early adopters who spend big bucks on other electronic items.

In the end, I think DIVX lasted about twelve months before the product was quietly pulled off the shelf in June of 1999. CC lost a ton and Dick Sharp ended up at some used car business CC was a part of. How fitting? A used car salesman LOL

I know a lot of BD supporters like to make it sound like BD is the second coming of DIVX but it is not even close. DIVX was vehemently hated by about every early adopter and most consumers with a thread of common sense. It was mostly uninformed consumers who got suckered into buying DIVX at CC.

Craig . . guess who we forgot to mention? The lawyers! CC's partner in this fascio; the entertainment law firm Ziffren, Brittenham, Branca and Fischer

From Wiki:

The DIVX rental system was created in 1998 in time for the holiday season and was discontinued on June 16, 1999 due to the costs of introducing the format,

March 1997 - DVD

November 1998 - DIVX

June 1999 DIVX is dead.

The slow growth of DVD was the fact that is was a purchase only medium. Want to see a movie on DVD? - you had to buy it. The initial year's adoption as been thought to have been mostly LD owners making the switch over.

Blockbuster announced right after DIVX died that they would carry DVD for rental. And by this time the players were around $300 and DVD took off.

Divx held up DVD adoption to some degree but not as severely as the current format war.

DVD was released in March 1997. Divx was released in Summer 1998, and Divx was cancelled in summer 1999 (by Circuit City).

Fox and Paramount held up DVD support completely. Disney had two DVD's in late 1997 but then switched to Divx. Universal supported both Divx and DVD.

Warners and Sony (to some degree Universal) made the case for DVD.

Divx was anathema to customers and got the worst reviews any consumer product ever got IMHO. Nevertheless it did take a time to die.


Comparisons between Divx and the current format war are largely irrelevant. Divx was a radically different business model that customers hated. HD DVD and Blu-ray are exactly the same business model.

My guess is that Divx had less of an impact on DVD than the current format war. People ignored Divx and finally the studios figured it out.

In the case of Blu-ray/HD DVD, I believe that the next level of adoption is being held up until the format war is shut down.

[Edit for 1977 -> 1997.]

Also remember DIVX was limited to the USA, while DVD was spreading worldwide.

I remember when people were talking about Divx in the early DVD days, and it was never a serious contender. Although there was some debate whether it would take off or not, I don't think any consumer viewed it as a viable format. Plus the fact that the Divx players also played DVDs made it a non-issue.

I don't think its fair to make the comparison between DVD/DiVX and the current battle. Even the comparison to VHS/Beta is not a complete parallel. This format war is a its own kind of beast. I think there was a lot of good data in the paper. Its interesting to see how long VHS and CDs took to gain acceptance, in this day-and-age where format wars are supposedly decided in 8 months.

Evidently Divx had some minor effect on DVD adoption, but not enough to be a factor. I think it would be more fair to compare what Microsoft is doing video downloads to Divx, considering it is almost the exact same business model. Even so, times change and the market changes. What was true in 97 or 74 is not true today.

<snip> DVD was released in March 1977. <snip>
Now that's some mature technology...

:D

One thing I think everyone fails to realize is the Netflix effect. HD-DVD and Blu-Ray are the first new video formats available for rental the day the technology was on the market. IN my area you can only buy them. With Netflix I can rent.

I bought Laser disc from Columbia House because it was the only way to get it in my area. I drove to Dallas once a month to buy some of the dumbest titles, just to get DVD's when they first hit the market.

I love the format war. Players are getting cheaper every time you look around and promotions for free and discounted movies are all over.

For the record I own an HDDVD player and am waiting to get a Blu-Ray player for my new house. I own two titles. Batman Begins and Superman Returns. I never watch either of them.

Personally, I don't care who wins. Just drive the prices down so low before a victor is crowned.

One thing I think everyone fails to realize is the Netflix effect. HD-DVD and Blu-Ray are the first new video formats available for rental the day the technology was on the market. IN my area you can only buy them. With Netflix I can rent.

I bought Laser disc from Columbia House because it was the only way to get it in my area. I drove to Dallas once a month to buy some of the dumbest titles, just to get DVD's when they first hit the market.

I love the format war. Players are getting cheaper every time you look around and promotions for free and discounted movies are all over.

For the record I own an HDDVD player and am waiting to get a Blu-Ray player for my new house. I own two titles. Batman Begins and Superman Returns. I never watch either of them.

Man, you ARE culturally deprived. I hope you soon get to see your first hi-def movie.

CC lost a ton and Dick Sharp ended up at some used car business CC was a part of. How fitting? A used car salesman LOL


You mean that little place called Carmax? (http://www.carmax.com/dyn/companyinfo/compinfo.aspx)

I waited until DIVX died before I bought a DVD player, and I know many others who did the same.

I waited until DIVX died before I bought a DVD player, and I know many others who did the same.
I was just the opposite. I bought into DVD the summer of 1998 when CC announced DIVX. I decided that the best way to battle it was to buy the competition and vote with my pocketbook. DIVX was one of the few battles I got involved enough to write letters to folks.

My problem with DIVX was less about the rental model than it was with other factors. CC and their lawyers were working hard to get studios to commit exclusively to DIVX so they would not release on standard DVD. Then, they were putting out only Pan & Scan movies with no extras (no time to watch them in the 48 hour window).

So the one parallel I will draw between the DIVX/DVD war and the current battle is the efforts by lawyers to lock up exclusive studio support to only one format. I just hate that behavior.

Oh, when DIVX died, CC put the disks on clearance. They were normally $4.49, but cleared for $0.50 I recall. I bought "48 Hours" and "Enemy of the State". Those seemed appropriate. :D I then started a total boycott of CC which I only recently slightly suspended when they started carrying more HD DVD material.

Ken

I waited until DIVX died before I bought a DVD player, and I know many others who did the same.

Cain, I read through the study and it's conclusions include that there were enough folks like you that the preannouncement of DIVX did in fact slow down the adoption of DVD technology.

Because DIVX was fairly quickly broadly recognized as such a lame technology the slowdown was relatively shortlived. By the time that DIVX was actually discontinued, the public had largely apparently dismissed DIVX as a viable business or technical alternative to DVD. So the official act of discontinuing further DIVX production was anticlimatic and had no affect (i.e., didn't increase) on the rate of DVD adoption.

I have to admit that I was so busy with work and family during this timeframe that I basically missed all this. I was vaguely aware of it probably by reading about the failed strategy in business journals.

Anyhow, no one can claim that either HD-DVD or Blu-ray is lame technology. I'm sure a number of PhDs will be earned by writing and studying about the current "format war". And I'm sure that the conclusions will include the notion that the format war did, in fact, slow down the adoption of hi-def video technology (at least for a time). But that's just an educated guess. We'll have to wait for the empirical studies done years down the road to know for sure.

Didn't Divx players play DVD anyway?

Didn't Divx players play DVD anyway?

Well, thanks to my new found DIVX knowledge I can tell you that they did play DVDs also.

DIVX was a radical venture. It died a very quick death and cost Circuit City a ton of money. I don't see any reference between DIVX/DVD and HD DVD/BRD. Yes you needed a special player for each but the DIVX system was based on pay-per-view which made it so unpopular. Now you buy a HDM player and a movie - play it as many times as you want - no extra charge other than the cost of the equipment and the movie.

A better reference would be DIVX to VOD/PPV but DIVX never went anywhere.
If BD wins you can expect Disney and Fox to try it.

Now that's some mature technology...

:D

Thanks, corrected the typo.

Cain, I read through the study and it's conclusions include that there were enough folks like you that the preannouncement of DIVX did in fact slow down the adoption of DVD technology.

Because DIVX was fairly quickly broadly recognized as such a lame technology the slowdown was relatively shortlived. By the time that DIVX was actually discontinued, the public had largely apparently dismissed DIVX as a viable business or technical alternative to DVD. So the official act of discontinuing further DIVX production was anticlimatic and had no affect (i.e., didn't increase) on the rate of DVD adoption.

I have to admit that I was so busy with work and family during this timeframe that I basically missed all this. I was vaguely aware of it probably by reading about the failed strategy in business journals.

Anyhow, no one can claim that either HD-DVD or Blu-ray is lame technology. I'm sure a number of PhDs will be earned by writing and studying about the current "format war". And I'm sure that the conclusions will include the notion that the format war did, in fact, slow down the adoption of hi-def video technology (at least for a time). But that's just an educated guess. We'll have to wait for the empirical studies done years down the road to know for sure.

Good post.

Once the format war has shut down, it will be immediately obvious that it showed down adoption, it is my guess.

I read today that HDTV sales in May veered strongly towards 1080P models and this is now the hot standard; dollar volumes are hence up. Folks buying these are ideal candidates for HDM if the industry had a coherent product.

Man, you ARE culturally deprived. I hope you soon get to see your first hi-def movie.


I have rented many HD-DVD's and am impressed with the quality, but I don't think I could tell the difference between Blu-Ray and HD-DVD given the same movie and TV.

I was trying to make a point about the impact that Netflix has had on both formats. When DVD premiered the only way to get to experience it was to buy movies in 7 markets. That slowly expanded over the next year.

HDDVD and Blu-Ray have the option to rent them and experience them without the large investment in a video library on day one. Watching the posts on these forums, some people have invested quite a bit in their High Def movie library. I am waiting for one format before I buy any more movies. The money I have saved can get me players for both formats.

If BD wins you can expect Disney and Fox to try it.

Isn't HD DVD more equipped to do this since every player has an ethernet connection.... :D OMG!!! Stop the presses!!!! That is HD DVDs master plan on how they are going to make up for underpricing their player.

HD DVD is the new DIVX

Craig . . guess who we forgot to mention? The lawyers! CC's partner in this fascio; the entertainment law firm Ziffren, Brittenham, Branca and Fischer

From Wiki:



March 1997 - DVD

November 1998 - DIVX

June 1999 DIVX is dead.

The slow growth of DVD was the fact that is was a purchase only medium. Want to see a movie on DVD? - you had to buy it. The initial year's adoption as been thought to have been mostly LD owners making the switch over.

Blockbuster announced right after DIVX died that they would carry DVD for rental. And by this time the players were around $300 and DVD took off.

Ah I forgot the wonderful copyright lawyers. Also how could we forget DIVX slick spokesman Josh Dare or does anyone remember that tool that used to pimp DIVX on CC commercial? I believe the line was, "If you get DVD make sure it is DIVX DVD." I think the last time anyone saw him his line was "fries with that?"

I believe Netflix was direct response to DIVX.

DIVX most definitely slowed down adoption due to some studios that had not agreed to do DVD signed contracts with DIVX. Most notably FOX. Disney had just announced DVD support, but then news came that they were doing DIVX as well. The fear was that DIVX studios would only release their high profile A-list titles to DIVX only.

I think when studios saw the amount of vitriol DIVX generated among early adopters they realized it had no future and they no longer wanted to be associated with one of thebiggest failures in CE history.

Is this pertinent today? I think to a point. This whole idea about downloading HD content has not been well defined and it raises a lot of questions. I for one don't want high priced downloads with a limited timeframe viewing window (sound familiar). And I think this is what the studios really want eventually. A box office booth in your living room. No thanks! I'll stick with the current rental formats and I would like to outright purchase a physical copy that is mine to watch anytime I want without restrictions on LEGAL uses.

If digital download takes over hold onto your wallets.

I believe Netflix was direct response to DIVX.

DIVX most definitely slowed down adoption due to some studios that had not agreed to do DVD signed contracts with DIVX. Most notably FOX. Disney had just announced DVD support, but then news came that they were doing DIVX as well. The fear was that DIVX studios would only release their high profile A-list titles to DIVX only.

I think when studios saw the amount of vitriol DIVX generated among early adopters they realized it had no future and they no longer wanted to be associated with one of thebiggest failures in CE history.

Is this pertinent today? I think to a point. This whole idea about downloading HD content has not been well defined and it raises a lot of questions. I for one don't want high priced downloads with a limited timeframe viewing window (sound familiar). And I think this is what the studios really want eventually. A box office booth in your living room. No thanks! I'll stick with the current rental formats and I would like to outright purchase a physical copy that is mine to watch anytime I want without restrictions on LEGAL uses.

If digital download takes over hold onto your wallets.

This might interest you:

http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6452274.html

This might interest you:

http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6452274.html

Thanks. Interesting read.

I still think to make it work with todays network these HD download are going to be the equivalent of directv HD-lite.... Overly filtered, highly compressed, lack of detail, lossy audio, etc

The bandwidth is not there. I remember seeing some articles on how internet experts are worried that streaming HD content and extremely large downloads are going to put a significant stress on today's internet. Not to mention in the US we have fairly slow connection speeds compared to other areas of the world.

It will probably move in download direction eventually, but I really hope it takes at least twenty years until that point.

It will probably move in download direction eventually, but I really hope it takes at least twenty years until that point.I think its going to be a lot sooner than that. Did you see ABC's new streaming HD player:

http://dynamic.abc.go.com/streaming/landing

Sure, its compressed and a little choppy, but they really aren't that far off.

I think its going to be a lot sooner than that. Did you see ABC's new streaming HD player:

http://dynamic.abc.go.com/streaming/landing

Sure, its compressed and a little choppy, but they really aren't that far off.


Fine for a PC display but there is no that is going to look great on a 100" projection screen.

Also, if a lot of people start streaming this content it is going to create bottlenecks for everyone online.

This format war is a its own kind of beast.

Every day it reminds me more and more of DVD-R vs DVD+R

DIVX commercials:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ed-p9NSwqbw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5bEs0BbWi8

I don't know of anyone who thought DIVX was a serious proposition and even then it was never a rival to DVD, just an extension. There was no need to hold of buying a DVD player.

Isn't HD DVD more equipped to do this since every player has an ethernet connection.... :D OMG!!! Stop the presses!!!! That is HD DVDs master plan on how they are going to make up for underpricing their player.

HD DVD is the new DIVX
Yeah, but BD is the one that will sell you discs that your player can't play because it can't get the updated keys. You'll have to make a choice. Play the discs you have, or play new ones.

I don't know of anyone who thought DIVX was a serious proposition and even then it was never a rival to DVD, just an extension. There was no need to hold of buying a DVD player.
Exactly, Divx had zip, zero, zilch, no impact on DVD adoption. During the lifespan of Divx the general public's awareness of DVD was non-existant. Divx began during the '98 holiday season (announced in the summer, real sales began during the buying season) - at this time the cheapest DVD player was $500 = no interest outside the hardcore enthuiast market. Also there were only a handful of DVDs available for sale.

The offical date of divx's demise was the '99 season but really it was gone well before then (late summer of '99). Roughly a 6 - 8 month life. It was here & gone before most of the buying public even knew it happened. When it died there was still very few DVDs available & prices on the players had just started to generate some market interest (hitting $250).

The equates a non-impact. DVD sales really took off during the black friday deals where they could be purchased for well under $200.

Divx did however generate lots of internet forum bickering :D Much like today's format war.

Two hot topics were:

- it phones home. You had to have the player connected to a phone line for media verification & payments (if you wanted unlimited use you paid a fee). The thought of it phoning home was abhorrent - "they know my viewing habits".................funny given the opposite with TiVo :D

- the media was DRM'm up the wazoo. You bought a disc & you could play it a few (3 IIRC) times within 24hrs. You could purchase unlimited rights & extra viewings. Once you started a play the 24hr clock was ticking. Once started it would only play on that machine - you could NOT take it to a friends house for viewing.

Disney & Fox (more Fox) BIG supporters of Divx - they loved the DRM, sound familiar?

Yeah, but .....


Just another example of how HD DVD supporters can't take a joke.

Disney & Fox (more Fox) BIG supporters of Divx - they loved the DRM, sound familiar?


and you won't see their titles on HD DVD until there is enough protection available for them to feel comfortable.

Yeah, but BD is the one that will sell you discs that your player can't play because it can't get the updated keys. You'll have to make a choice. Play the discs you have, or play new ones.

You forgot to mention that with BD you have to worry about your player supporting BD+, and all the new BD versions (1.1, 2.0, ...). Sure they say older players will support some of that, but do we really know for sure?

and you won't see their titles on HD DVD until there is enough protection available for them to feel comfortable.


I disagree with that. They were probably never really comfortable with DVD's security either. They just went where the money was.

Guaranteed that if somehow HD DVD is the winner at the end, and they have a big enough market share, you'll see FOX and Disney HD DVDs, even if the protection isn't where they would like it to be.