BJ's Wholesale Club stores to carry Blu-ray exclusively

By Jennifer Netherby -- Video Business, 7/26/2007
JULY 26 | East Coast chain BJ’s Wholesale Club will drop HD DVD from its shelves and carry the Blu-ray Disc format exclusively by the fourth quarter, according to sources at the retailer and several Hollywood studios.

Sources said the chain will carry Blu-ray exclusively at all its 170 stores, although it continues to carry both formats on its Web site.

A spokesperson for the chain didn’t immediately return calls for comment.

BJ’s' move follows Target and Blockbuster, both of which have announced they will increase the presence and support of Blu-ray in stores. Both chains, however, will continue to carry HD DVD movies to some extent.

http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6463556.html

one after the other, dominoes are falling

Ah, yes - BJ - man, that's something HD DVD fans could have used right about now... :p

You realize that this is going to continue....

I've said it before, I'll say it again, the retailers are the ones who are going to end this format war.

Hmm. I live on the east coast of the US but I've never heard of BJ's.

A quick look at Wikipedia and Google Finance shows they control 173 locations in 16 states with a net equity of about $1B.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BJ's_Wholesale_Club

http://finance.google.com/finance?q=BJ

A relatively small player in retail, but not so small as to sneeze at.

Looks like someone at Sony got happy with the corporate card. I thought they had anti-trust laws to stop this sort of thing.

The Target announcement has legs.

Where the hell is the HD DVD PRG? HD DVD is getting their asses kicked in the marketing department... IE, there's no marketing at all from HD DVD.

Looks like someone at Sony got happy with the corporate card. I thought they had anti-trust laws to stop this sort of thing.
A little too much paranoia?

If this is indeed a domino effect from Blockbuster and Target, expect to see more of these sorts of announcements in the coming weeks.

Toshiba and HD DVD PRG need to wake up and do some damage control. This is not the sort of negative momentum HD DVD wants to have heading into the holidays.

I really didn't expect so many to turn blu in such a short time. I agree with you Icemage, Toshiba better start working double time, all the damage control and I'm not talking about the paid shills at avs, I doubt that helps ;)

A little too much paranoia?

If this is indeed a domino effect from Blockbuster and Target, expect to see more of these sorts of announcements in the coming weeks.


Indeed. It's kinda like watching someone who's drowing, desparately reach out for anything and everything... growing more and more frantic. It would be tragic if it wasn't someone rooting for one corporate conglomerate versus another. :)

If all this is happening now in boring ol' July - then what's going to happen as we get closer to the holidays when the BD studio releases/marketing/PS3 games/etc really heat up?

The Target announcement has legs.

Where the hell is the HD DVD PRG? HD DVD is getting their asses kicked in the marketing department... IE, there's no marketing at all from HD DVD.

Don't panic. It is still not the buying season. Another 2 months before that begins. When you have a plan - you work your plan. The plan is to get players and titles out into the market. This is happening. Pricing is still a very powerful weapon in a war that requires many people to buy your product.

The war is not going to be decided by Target or B.J's. The Sony PR machine is running at 110%. They have to try to get rid of HD DVD in the next 3 months. You are going to see a lot of these small players go with BRD. There is still Wal-Mart, Costco, CC and BB and none of these have decided anything. (and you can be petty and say "yet" so there it is)

Fortunately this war will not be decided in the next 3 months. Which means HD DVD can continue to flourish. It will be the time period from 11/24 to 12/31 - that will be the big tell as to what is to come. And we will have to wait until it happens. Nothing we can do to influence it. We already made a decision - we are enjoying HD movies on our HDTV's.

When the time is right the HD DVD Promotions Group will go through the gears to get it up to the correct speed. Why waste it now when CE buying is at it's lowest - the summer doldrums.

Because of AVS? And the reactions here? Tempest in a teacup.

Looks like someone at Sony got happy with the corporate card. I thought they had anti-trust laws to stop this sort of thing.The retailers are on the front lines in this war, having to spend $$$ explaining to confused customers what this technology is, having to use precious shelf space for both formats and having to deal with complaints from customers who didn't understand the thing wouldn't play in their old DVD player. Brick and mortar retailers want one format, not two.

I am definitely getting that sinking feeling.

If you cant walk into a store and purchase a hd-dvd player (like it looks like is going to happen soon), then how will hd-dvd win anything other then the award of "most paid fake hd-dvd supporters on avs"?

Guys, ebay your hd-dvd stuff. Now. Time to junk it, cut your losses before you bury yourself too deep in it.

I'll take an XA1 on teh cheap! Been dying to go frankenstein with some pC parts and my 360 add-on. :eek: :D

Holy smokes let me eBay my HD DVD player.

Guys, ebay your hd-dvd stuff. Now. Time to junk it, cut your losses before you bury yourself too deep in it.
Last time I checked, you can still stick an HD DVD in an HD DVD player and it'll still show the movie.

If people like their HD DVDs, there's no reason to sell them (yet... maybe not ever). This forum is littered in every direction with people who still own LaserDiscs and D-VHSs; should HD DVD and/or Blu-ray never go mainstream, we can still keep what we've got since it'll still work.

Otherwise, please try to keep the enthusiasm in check and try not to tell people what to do? It's rude and unbecoming.

I am definitely getting that sinking feeling.

Same here. I'm not bailing out or pawning my HD-DVD stuff on eBay (nice try JacKBee :rolleyes: ) but it's getting lonely being the only guy I know that owns or buys HD-DVD. Everybody else I know thinks/wants Blu-ray but, like me, cannot afford it. If that barrier is crossed and Sony delivers affordable (as in below $200) BD players for the holiday season Toshiba is toast. All these stores going BD exclusive doesn't mean many sales will be generated if the players continue hovering between $400-500. Drop below $350 though... :(

If you cant walk into a store and purchase a hd-dvd player (like it looks like is going to happen soon), then how will hd-dvd win anything other then the award of "most paid fake hd-dvd supporters on avs"?

Guys, ebay your hd-dvd stuff. Now. Time to junk it, cut your losses before you bury yourself too deep in it.

Think I will stick it out a bit longer - at least 5 months - to see how it plays out. And here is my thoughts if HD DVD loses on 1/1/08:

I invested $325 in a player. I got 3 movies worth $60 so that reduces my cost to $265. I will have 20 HD DVD's by 12/31 - all keepers - 6 out of my top10 favorite movies of all time. I was going to spend $200 for a Oppo upconverting DVD player. For $65 more I bought the A2. UP's my DVD very well as the lions share of my 400+ collection are anamorphic transfers. I just bought a $400 gas fed generator - 5000 watts. I hope I never have to use it - I live in Ft. Lauderdale - prime hurricane country. Was without power for over 2 weeks in 2005.

So my investment in HD DVD is very small. I have my movies which I will enjoy - all 420+ of them. I get plenty of HD on HD CBL - 16 channels with more to come. I can easily feed my desire for HD. I have been since 1999 and it took 7 years for HDM to arrive.

If you can figure out how to pump HD content to my HDTV using some string and rubber bands . . .and it works - I will buy it . . . if the price is reasonable. ;)

I checked out BJ's pricing. For a wholesale club they don't seem to advertise very good pricing. Costco certainly isn't going to fret.

I think what we're seeing is planning that happened months ago. Remember it was just 4 months ago that HD DVD looked like it was dying on the vine. Companies probably looked at March and started making plans to beef up Blu-ray. In this respect the lack of effectice communication by the HD DVD PRG could have been more costly than we can imagine.

It's ironic that this week we're getting these announcements when HD DVD is on a surge and at least on Amazon's site has usurped Blu-rays lead in the Top 10 movie sales.

Thoughts, wishes and prognostications of the marginal effect of the HD DVD rebate seem to be unfounded. It seems that with every new alottment of HD owners their effect isn't felt until the next big release of a popular movie.

I also expect to see more sales of media. The sales are getting me into the stores to buy titles that I don't think are worth it at full pop but for a deal I'm game.

The Sony PR machine is running at 110%. They have to try to get rid of HD DVD in the next 3 months.I found your statement about 3 months interesting partially because that is near the end of October and seems to be right before Blu-ray gets:

1. Cars
2. Ratatouille
3. All 3 Spider-man movies (although that might be right before then)
4. The first Spielberg directed title (Close Encounters) after Ken Graffeo reportedly claimed he wouldn't let his movies be published on HD disc until they were mass market.
5. If a Microsoft spokesperson is right with a bet they made, a $399 version of the PS3.
6. Pirates of the Caribbean 3
...

I could of course try to make a list of exclusive things for HD DVD, but it looks to me like November and December could be very strong for Blu-ray and while I'm sure the Blu-ray side would love to have the war be over in 3 months, November and December could be good enough for them to have it effectively be over (or the beginning of the end) at CES 2008.

Now if Toshiba decides to come out with a $99 player in November, then maybe it is important to the Blu-ray side to have it be over in the next 3 months, but I'm doubting that is going to happen and it seems like it is HD DVD that needs to stop the current momentum in the next 3 months or it will be hard to turn it around in the last 2 months of the year. Even the little announcements like Starz, those 4 IMAX titles, stores going Blu-ray exclusive in the US or elsewhere start to add up and some of those titles from the smaller studios that went Blu-ray exclusive will be added to the mix in Q4.

Basically, I don't see hanging on for HD DVD to be good enough until right before some of those big movies hit for Blu-ray exclusives and for neutral titles. Should be an interesting rest of the year though.

--Darin

It's ironic that this week we're getting these announcements when HD DVD is on a surge and at least on Amazon's site has usurped Blu-rays lead in the Top 10 movie sales.They have and in some ways I am impressed. On the other hand, it is somewhat like I've said at other times when looking at the rankings on there. Both sides have some good things to look at on Amazon. I think the top 10 surge by HD DVD makes some sense with the number of good new titles they have coming out in the next few weeks , combined with catalog titles that have an advantage of being tied to a new movie (either on disc or at the theater). I'm referring to the first Bourne getting some advantage from the third one coming to the theater just like the Pirates movies did before and Shaun of the Dead getting some tie-in with Hot Fuzz. Batman Begins moving up some on Amazon looks good to me, but it isn't all that much in actual sales and could be helped by the other titles like 300 where people buy multiple things together. HD DVD has gotten more titles into the top 1000 than they normally have, so that is a good thing, but I'm not sure how much is because of the release schedule about now.

Now for what I think is the bad news for HD DVD looking at the Amazon rankings. But first I want to add that the Disney disc sale has changed many of the Blu-ray rankings, so I'm going largely by the Blu-ray rankings before that sale started and Disney titles aren't neutral anyway. Even with all the hardware HD DVD has been selling, the rankings for the 100th ranked HD DVD doesn't seem like it has changed all that much in the last few months. Still 7000 to 9000 or so most of the time I check. And from what I recall over the last months, Nielsen numbers for common titles have mostly favored Blu-ray versions (Planet Earth being the exception) while Amazon rankings have favored the HD DVD versions during preorders and right after the titles go up for sale. But for things released the same day I've noticed in the last week or so that for all the ones I looked at, other than PE, the BD was ahead in all those cases. And PE has gotten pretty close. Seems to me that this is a change on Amazon from what was happening previously. And I should mention that Blood Diamond is an exception I think makes some sense just from being out less time on HD DVD than BD. If anybody sees it different I would be interested in hearing how, since it seems like rankings for common titles about to be released or just out have started to move more in BD's direction just recently.

--Darin

I checked out BJ's pricing. For a wholesale club they don't seem to advertise very good pricing

The BJ's here in Ma isn't a place for electronic deals at all. The wholesale pricing really applies to the food's and other household goods. As for the electronics selection in general at BJ's, it's pathetic compared to, let's say, Costco.

Holy smokes let me eBay my HD DVD player. LOL!

I found your statement about 3 months interesting partially because that is near the end of October and seems to be right before Blu-ray gets:

1. Cars
2. Ratatouille
3. All 3 Spider-man movies (although that might be right before then)
4. The first Spielberg directed title (Close Encounters) after Ken Graffeo reportedly claimed he wouldn't let his movies be published on HD disc until they were mass market.
5. If a Microsoft spokesperson is right with a bet they made, a $399 version of the PS3.
6. Pirates of the Caribbean 3


Basically, I don't see hanging on for HD DVD to be good enough until right before some of those big movies hit for Blu-ray exclusives and for neutral titles. Should be an interesting rest of the year though.

--Darin

The saying is "may you live in interesting times"

IMO order of importance for movies.

1. Spiderman series- If they bring out all three that would be damn impressive
2. Pirates of the Carribean 3- I'd assume many want to complete their collections
3. Ratatouille - I found it superior to Cars storywise and animation.
4. Cars - I'm a fan even though it doesn't quite live up to lofty Pixar standards IMO.
5. Close Encounters- Not my favorite Spielberg movie but hey right now anything helps

Universal is going to have to deliver. I'd like to see these delivered in 2007 in no particular order.

1. The Bourne Ultimatum- completion of the Trilogy
2. Knocked Up- I'm a sucker for funny comedies
3. American Gangster- Crowe/Washington...grit.
4. Twister- for old times sake.

This might put things in perspective. Here is a list of the top 100 retailers in the USA for 2006:


http://www.stores.org/pdf/07TOP100Chart.pdf

Guys, ebay your hd-dvd stuff. Now. Time to junk it, cut your losses before you bury yourself too deep in it.

wormraper will now start haunting the "media Items for sale" section on AVS :D

A little too much paranoia?

If this is indeed a domino effect from Blockbuster and Target, expect to see more of these sorts of announcements in the coming weeks.I really don't recall when stores started announcing which products they don't carry. Usually they just fade away silently.

I think it is time to start updating something like this. ;)
http://www.lynxfx.com/forumpics/goblu-universal.jpg

There's a store called BJ's? Sound's like a porn shop

There's a store called BJ's? Sound's like a porn shop

I know a BJ's, makes good steak.

This might put things in perspective. Here is a list of the top 100 retailers in the USA for 2006:

http://www.stores.org/pdf/07TOP100Chart.pdf
Whoah, that's pretty high up there.

BJ's is listed at #40, and there are a lot of retailers on the list like McDonalds, Dollar General and Publix who aren't even vaguely in the electronics business.

I take back what I said. BJ's isn't quite such a small fry after all.

Whoah, that's pretty high up there.

BJ's is listed at #40, and there are a lot of retailers on the list like McDonalds, Dollar General and Publix who aren't even vaguely in the electronics business.

I take back what I said. BJ's isn't quite such a small fry after all.

Indeed, not at all. I didn't know Target was that high up either at #5 above Best Buy.

Now if Toshiba decides to come out with a $99 player in NovemberOh, they will - you'll be able to buy it at Overstock.com, Tuesday Morning, and the Best Buy Clearance Center!

This might put things in perspective. Here is a list of the top 100 retailers in the USA for 2006:


http://www.stores.org/pdf/07TOP100Chart.pdfIt looks like BJ's is eighth on this list if you leave out those listed who don't really sell A/V equipment.

- Talk

I think it is time to start updating something like this. ;)
http://www.lynxfx.com/forumpics/goblu-universal.jpg
Brilliant!

Oh, they will - you'll be able to buy it at Overstock.com, Tuesday Morning, and the Best Buy Clearance Center!

I've already found HD DVD players on craigslist for under $100

I've already found HD DVD players on craigslist for under $100

lol, make sure that they aren't made by LG and Sony etc.... I've seen enough of those "HD DVD" players on Craigslist before

lol, make sure that they aren't made by LG and Sony etc.... I've seen enough of those "HD DVD" players on Craigslist before

Toshiba's

There's a BJ's wharehouse near me. Most shoppers go there to buy meat. So I couldn't care less if they go Blu-ray exclusive. I don't think this bit of news would matter at all.

It looks like BJ's is eighth on this list if you leave out those listed who don't really sell A/V equipment.

- Talk

Well... BJ's doesn't really sell A/V equipment. Unless you want to make the claim that having 1 or 2 DVD players and 2 TV's in store is enough to be considered an electronic store.

BJ's will be a tiny player in this... if at all!

Also, I don't quite understand the idea of trying to sell big ticket items in stores known for catering to penny pinching consumers.

Also, I don't quite understand the idea of trying to sell big ticket items in stores known for catering to penny pinching consumers.

Exactly! Like walmart shoppers who buy 99 cent shampoo and pudding, those guys will never buy HD players of any kind! You make a excellent point as to why the low end market is meaningless at this time. Thanks.

Exactly! Like walmart shoppers who buy 99 cent shampoo and pudding, those guys will never buy HD players of any kind! You make a excellent point as to why the low end market is meaningless at this time. Thanks.

chuckle, kinda negates the whole Target announcement too then.

Also, I don't quite understand the idea of trying to sell big ticket items in stores known for catering to penny pinching consumers.And yet Costco seems to do well selling many expensive items to consumers who could be said to be penny pinchers.

--Darin

There's a BJ's wharehouse near me. Most shoppers go there to buy meat. So I couldn't care less if they go Blu-ray exclusive. I don't think this bit of news would matter at all.

No it's more of just being another piece of data that some are trying to use to make a mountain out of a molehill.

How many people here bought their HD DVD or Blu-ray player from BJ's? Yet now many that don't even live within 1000 miles of the store are crowing like some huge announcement just happened.

Sometimes I find that I have to employ the same "suspension of disbelief" that I do for movies right here on AVS.

And yet Costco seems to do well selling many expensive items to consumers who could be said to be penny pinchers.

--Darin

Yeah, quite a few people I know purchased expensive items at Costco. But the reason why they did was because they had an excellent return policy which got blown wide open and continuously abused.

If you've ever been to a BJ's , you'd laugh at the differences compared to Costco.

This would be important if there was a war...again, hd media sales combined equal less than 1% of all software sales...format war, lol only on these forums.

Its a fitting end to the week ...HD DVD gets $20 off the HD DVD add-on and Blu-ray gets BJs.

Its a fitting end to the week ...HD DVD gets $20 off the HD DVD add-on and Blu-ray gets BJs.

Now that was funny :D

Holy smokes let me eBay my HD DVD player.
Does that make sense? You'd buy a BD player for between $500 and $1200, then sink a whole lot of money into BD movies, and can still not watch the great movies which are available in those red boxes.

Does that make sense? You'd buy a BD player for between $500 and $1200, then sink a whole lot of money into BD movies, and can still not watch the great movies which are available in those red boxes.

Yup and what about those foreign titles that I want to view. A Global marketplace demands a Global player.

As much as I love Hollywoooo, Europe and Asia are cranking out some great films.

Does that make sense? You'd buy a BD player for between $500 and $1200, then sink a whole lot of money into BD movies, and can still not watch the great movies which are available in those red boxes.

Sarcasm meter broken? ... Or is mine?

:p

Don't panic. It is still not the buying season. Another 2 months before that begins. When you have a plan - you work your plan. The plan is to get players and titles out into the market. This is happening. Pricing is still a very powerful weapon in a war that requires many people to buy your product.

The war is not going to be decided by Target or B.J's. The Sony PR machine is running at 110%. They have to try to get rid of HD DVD in the next 3 months. You are going to see a lot of these small players go with BRD. There is still Wal-Mart, Costco, CC and BB and none of these have decided anything. (and you can be petty and say "yet" so there it is)

Fortunately this war will not be decided in the next 3 months. Which means HD DVD can continue to flourish. It will be the time period from 11/24 to 12/31 - that will be the big tell as to what is to come. And we will have to wait until it happens. Nothing we can do to influence it. We already made a decision - we are enjoying HD movies on our HDTV's.

When the time is right the HD DVD Promotions Group will go through the gears to get it up to the correct speed. Why waste it now when CE buying is at it's lowest - the summer doldrums.

Because of AVS? And the reactions here? Tempest in a teacup.
There is still Wal-Mart, Costco, CC and BB and none of these have decided anything. (and you can be petty and say "yet" so there it is)

It would be more accurate to say "none have announced anything" unless you have inside knowledge.

Whoah, that's pretty high up there.

BJ's is listed at #40, and there are a lot of retailers on the list like McDonalds, Dollar General and Publix who aren't even vaguely in the electronics business.

I take back what I said. BJ's isn't quite such a small fry after all.

We can all thank Lee Stewart for putting it in perspective for us. :) :) :)

We can all thank Lee Stewart for putting it in perspective for us. :) :) :)

And you fail to realize that BJ's is irrelevant when it comes to electronics. Many people here would seriously have to have a look inside a BJ's to know what I'm talking about.

I wouldn't even hold it up to Costco standards.

Again people are missing the point. I talked about this on another thread but it bears paraphrasing:

The BDA wants mindshare. Visibility, visibility, visibility. The more big retailers they can get people to walk into and see blue discs exclusively in, the more people will be confident that Blu-ray is the real deal and a safe bet.

This is one area where HD DVD is struggling and showing no signs of improvement right now. The lowest prices in the world won't help if no one knows what your product is.

There's a store called BJ's? Sound's like a porn shop

That makes it all the more surprising then, no? Didn't HD DVD claim to be the format of porn? ;)

Don't you guys get that at this phase in the war it has nothing to do about actual numbers and all about PR.

HD DVD is getting its ass handed to it. Target, Blockbuster, BJs, Starz, Razor, taken 1 @ a time, they aren't that big of a deal, but taken together you have the makings of a PR nightmare for HD DVD.

Furthermore, the CNN article all but called the war for BD, face it, if I am a consumer heading into Q3, as it stands, I wouldn't touch HD DVD with a ten foot pole.

Well... BJ's doesn't really sell A/V equipment. Unless you want to make the claim that having 1 or 2 DVD players and 2 TV's in store is enough to be considered an electronic store.

BJ's will be a tiny player in this... if at all!

Also, I don't quite understand the idea of trying to sell big ticket items in stores known for catering to penny pinching consumers.


Wow your BJ's must suck then. There's like 50+ TV's, computers, monitors, stands, mounts, consoles, Etc in my BJ's. You can get a pretty good deal on a TV there. They like to bundle the stands with the sets.

Ah, yes - BJ - man, that's something HD DVD fans could have used right about now... :p
That's cute coming from someone who six months ago stated that HD DVD gave us more than we deserved.
J

All this and yet >>>

You still need $500 to get into the Blu-Ray game.

Until they go sub $200 with a player that works, I read these posts and laugh.

Never even seen a HD-DVD at BJ's so not sure how much impact this will have.

I am just amazed at this point that there are people here still posting that HD-DVD is going to win. I know some of them get paid to say that, but many others probably aren't.

All this and yet >>>

You still need $500 to get into the Blu-Ray game.

Until they go sub $200 with a player that works, I read these posts and laugh.

Me too. Except I laugh with glee.

This isn't dominoes it is more like a house of cards for Blu Ray

1. PS 3 Sales Suck

2. Software is inferior

3. High Priced Hardware

4. No Standard

5 . Less Features


So pull out the old checkbook and make it look like all these companies have evaluated and chosen.

The endorsement of Blockbuster, Target, Bj's Ect. should not mean anything to someone choosing a hi performance anything these places are all about average and mediocre.

There is one interesting speculation that Target and BJ's would go BD because some other large retailer and wholesale club might go a different way.

What if Toshiba had some really aggressively priced Exclusive HD player and these other companies were circling the wagons.

It does cause to pause

This isn't dominoes it is more like a house of cards for Blu Ray

1. PS 3 Sales Suck

2. Software is inferior

3. High Priced Hardware

4. No Standard

5 . Less Features


So pull out the old checkbook and make it look like all these companies have evaluated and chosen.

The endorsement of Blockbuster, Target, Bj's Ect. should not mean anything to someone choosing a hi performance anything these places are all about average and mediocre.

There is one interesting speculation that Target and BJ's would go BD because some other large retailer and wholesale club might go a different way.

What if Toshiba had some really aggressively priced Exclusive HD player and these other companies were circling the wagons.

It does cause to pause

No, it doesn't.

If Toshiba was in front of this and market trends showed they could get to parity with BD, I think the game becomes very different.

The only pause you need to take is to think about what this latest bit of PR is going to do to HD DVD with reference to mindshare.

I say cheaper prices are irrelevant @ this point, J6P doesn't really even know what you are trying to sell him yet. He won't for some time.

1st, 2nd and 3rd tier adopters are the market. J6P comes later.

Just 12 BD into this and Im beginning to realize I made the right decision..

I am just amazed at this point that there are people here still posting that HD-DVD is going to win. I know some of them get paid to say that, but many others probably aren't.I believe HD-DVD isn't going anywhere and I am not on the payroll.

Unlike some others, I don't base my beliefs on corporate press releases.

Just 12 BD into this and Im beginning to realize I made the right decision..


You did. BD is the format with the best chance for mass adoption.

If I were giving odds, I'd say 2:1 for BD and 10:1 for HD DVD at this point, unless something DRASTICALLY changes... but given the latest announcements and climate, I'd say it'd have to really shake the industry...

199 players aren't going to get it done. They need more content.

First, before anyone accuses me of bias, yes I was an avid HDDVD supporter, I have over 40 purchased HDDVD's, and love my HDXa2(just sold my HDA1). However, I recently purchased the new Sony Blu Ray BDP-300, and have about 10 Blu ray titles. That being said, I feel that this announcement is not that big of a deal, but if things keep going this way, it could be bad news for HDDVD. I really enjoy both formats(now :p ), and hope both survive for a little bit longer!

Mark

So in all the fracas of these announcements - how are sales doing for both formats? All the announcements that have been happening on the BRD side are for the future. What is happening today?

So in all the fracas of these announcements - how are sales doing for both formats?http://www.cybereality.com/images/hddvd_creeping_up.jpg

It looks like BJ's is eighth on this list if you leave out those listed who don't really sell A/V equipment.

- Talk

I think this is a particularly good example of how . . . misleading rankings can be. Let's look at retailers who sell electronics (if I leave a couple out of the electronics list it's not because I'm trying to, it's because I may not recognize the name or that store may not be in my part of the U.S., so apologies in advance).

1. Walmat -- $348.6 Billion in sales
2. Costco -- $60.1 Billion in sales
3. Target -- $59.4 Billion in sales
4. Sears -- $53.0 Billion in sales
5. BestBuy -- $35.9 Billion in sales
6. JC Penny -- $19.9 Billion in sales
7. Meijer -- $15.7 Billion in sales
8. Circuit City -- $12.4 Billion in sales
9. Amazon.com -- $10.7 Billion in sales
10. BJ's Wholesale Club -- $8.4 Billion in sales
11. QVC -- $7.0 Billion in sales
12. Gamestop -- $5.3 Billion in sales
13. RadioShack -- $4.7 Billion in sales
14. CompUSA -- $4.7 Billion in sales

Now, the first question would appear to be "How much of those sales numbers are actually electronics?" I don't know the answer (and I really don't feel like taking the time to pour through each company's annual report to figure it out), but we do know that Walmart, for example is one of, if not the largest retailer of HDTVs out there.

I'd like to point out that on the list above, retailers 2 through 14 don't total Walmart's total sales number. And while that is not necessarily a solid data point regarding electronics sales in particular (because we don't know what percentage each of the retailers listed above sell in electronics), it is definitely a big advantage when it comes to market penetration and breadth. Walmart is selling $348.6 Billion worth of "stuff" to somebody, and at some point those "somebodys" are going to walk past the electronics area of the store, especially around the holiday season.

I guess what I'm suggesting is that I'd be alarmed if retailers 2 through 14 ALL went Blu-ray exclusive, mostly because of breadth issues (and even then, market depth would still favor Walmart), while HD DVD doesn't need to be in a panic quite yet . . . if they don't experience a significant amount of success at Walmart over the holiday season, then their ace in the hole (the purported sale of inexpensive Chinese-sourced HD DVD players) will have actually been the two of spades.

Exactly! Like walmart shoppers who buy 99 cent shampoo and pudding, those guys will never buy HD players of any kind! You make a excellent point as to why the low end market is meaningless at this time. Thanks.

Unless of course, HD DVD players are priced in their "buying range" eh?

Geez louise, does anyone understand marketing at all?

There are three main "wholesale" clubs - Sams, Costco, and BJs.

They need something to separate themselves from each other. Costco carries the HD-D2, so I'll carry the BD player = I'm different, I have a different product line to offer the customer.

Same for Target, they need to separate themselves from Wally's.

I really didn't expect so many to turn blu in such a short time. I agree with you Icemage, Toshiba better start working double time, all the damage control and I'm not talking about the paid shills at avs, I doubt that helps ;)
I don't think they have the cash to buy as many as BD has here already ;)

Guys, ebay your hd-dvd stuff. Now. Time to junk it, cut your losses before you bury yourself too deep in it.
Please do, I'd like to start pickiin up those $5 discs on ebay - LD prices would be very nice :D

Again people are missing the point. I talked about this on another thread but it bears paraphrasing:

The BDA wants mindshare. Visibility, visibility, visibility. The more big retailers they can get people to walk into and see blue discs exclusively in, the more people will be confident that Blu-ray is the real deal and a safe bet.

This is one area where HD DVD is struggling and showing no signs of improvement right now. The lowest prices in the world won't help if no one knows what your product is.

Exactly.

From our favorite . . .they provide the sales charts - retailer concerning their last quarter preformance:

Revenue lifts 35% in quarter
By Jennifer Netherby -- Video Business, 7/24/2007
JULY 24 | Strong sales of movies, books and consumer electronics helped Amazon.com triple its earnings in the second quarter, the company reported Tuesday afternoon.

The retailer’s stock shot up as much as 18% to trade over $81 in after-hours trading following the news, which beat analysts’ expectations.

Amazon reported net income of $78 million for the quarter ended June 30, up from $22 million the previous year. Revenue was up 35% to $2.88 billion.

Sales in North America climbed 38% to $1.6 billion.

Amazon said sales of movies, books and consumer electronics were the biggest sales drivers during the quarter. Worldwide sales of movies, books and music grew 27% to $1.83 billion. North America media sales were up 26% to $923 million.

The company also attributed increases to its Amazon Prime shipping program, in which members pay a $79 annual fee for free two-day shipping on orders.

In an earnings call, CEO Jeff Bezos said it is too early to comment on the company’s Unbox movie download service

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http://www.cybereality.com/images/hddvd_creeping_up.jpg


I would argue with 300, Bourne, Hot Fuzz, and Shawn of the Dead, if HD DVD doesn't beat blu next week when the sales figures come out, you guys should hang it up.

Don't panic. It is still not the buying season. Another 2 months before that begins.

No, panic. Seriously.

It's not the consumer buying season yet.

It *is* the retailer holiday buying season however. Whereas toy stores do their holiday buying plans back in January and February, video and CE stores start firming up their plans during the summer for the holidays, particularly in the home video and gaming areas after they see what the summer blockbuster films are and what big tier games are coming for the holidays from publishers.

That's what we're seeing now, the buying season for what will be on the shelves come the consumer buying season.

http://www.cybereality.com/images/hddvd_creeping_up.jpg

The more you emphasize the sales in Amazon.com, the clearer it becomes that HD DVD sales in offline retailers are abysmal as deduced from Nielsen. Let alone Top 10 is not sales.

They need something to separate themselves from each other. Costco carries the HD-D2, so I'll carry the BD player = I'm different, I have a different product line to offer the customer.
Costco carries Sony BDPS301:

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11225997&whse=BC&topnav=&browse=&lang=en-US

Well, the Nielson numbers will come out today (hopefully). So... just keep that Amazon top 10 chart handy guys.

Costco carries the HD-D2, so I'll carry the BD player = I'm different, I have a different product line to offer the customer.


Well Costco.com carries the Sony S300 (rebadged as S301) at $469 and the A20 at $369.

Samsclub.com carries 2 BD players (Sony and Philips) and zero/no HD DVD players.

And BJ's will carry only BD players.

It seems like there's not that much differentiation. Only Costco sells a HD DVD player (at barely $100 less than the BD player), but they heavily favor BD in software (84 BD titles versus 26 HD DVD Titles). It used to be HD DVD exclusive earlier in the year ...

My local paper, the Harrisburg Patriot-News, ran the Target announcement on the front page of the business section yesterday. Mindshare indeed.

No, panic. Seriously.

It's not the consumer buying season yet.

It *is* the retailer holiday buying season however. Whereas toy stores do their holiday buying plans back in January and February, video and CE stores start firming up their plans during the summer for the holidays, particularly in the home video and gaming areas after they see what the summer blockbuster films are and what big tier games are coming for the holidays from publishers.

That's what we're seeing now, the buying season for what will be on the shelves come the consumer buying season.

Yes I know that. So we have seen two minor players make choices. One to add the S300 as a product (Super large retailer but a minor player in the HDM war) - the other go BRD exclusive. But neither affects the outcome of the war and the top 10 CE retailers don't look down to see what those below them are doing - they look up to see what those above them are doing.

And none of the top 10 have announced anything. So I will just ignore your suggestion - just fanboy BS

I can see it now: The hubby gets home from BJ's and greets the wifey at the door:

Hubby - "Hi Honey, I'm home..."
Wifey - "What did you buy?"

Hubby - "I bought 600 rolls of drywall- based toilet paper, 87 boxes of Cheerios, a 40lb tin of oversalted pretzels, a case of 500 hockey-puck sized hamburgers, a pair of slippers, and....... a $500 P.O.S Sony-ray player so we can watch all of the el-crappo Summer Blockbusters on our 25" Sansui CRT TV that takes an hour to warm up."

Hubby - "And, this player will be obsolete in about 3 months so the next Burger run I can buy another one!"
Wifey - "Ohhhhh...... Dear......."

The lights dim, the Barry White CD goes in...... you know the rest.

:D

Again people are missing the point. I talked about this on another thread but it bears paraphrasing:

The BDA wants mindshare. Visibility, visibility, visibility. The more big retailers they can get people to walk into and see blue discs exclusively in, the more people will be confident that Blu-ray is the real deal and a safe bet.

This is one area where HD DVD is struggling and showing no signs of improvement right now. The lowest prices in the world won't help if no one knows what your product is.

Don't you guys get that at this phase in the war it has nothing to do about actual numbers and all about PR.

HD DVD is getting its ass handed to it. Target, Blockbuster, BJs, Starz, Razor, taken 1 @ a time, they aren't that big of a deal, but taken together you have the makings of a PR nightmare for HD DVD.

Furthermore, the CNN article all but called the war for BD, face it, if I am a consumer heading into Q3, as it stands, I wouldn't touch HD DVD with a ten foot pole.

These posts really hit the nail squarely on the the head. HD DVD is invisible in the media and its only on forums like this that HD DVD news is heard. The $200 HD DVD sale at VE? Did that make CNN or any other news site? 24fps output in September? Anyone apart from AV forum members even aware or care about this? Meanwhile BR news is trumpeted everywhere in the press and is almost always interpreted as meaning the end of the format war. And not a peep out of the HD DVD camp.

So which format does the HD DVD PRG think the man on the street is going to pick when he wants to go HD? The format that has been declared the winner by the media, retailers and his friend downtown with a ps3 and which EVERYONE knows about or HD DVD? And where would he even BUY a player if all retailers are not stocking them on their shelves? And while current BR hardware prices are higher than HD DVD they wont be forever. The $99 HD DVD player wont sell if its not stocked and no one knows about it.

News like this may not be game-changing in itself, but put all together it paints a picture. And it doesn't have any red in it.

The HD DVD camp needs to step up their current pathetic marketing efforts NOW - shout about the features, the movies but let HD DVD be heard - or by the time they execute their "plan" it will be all over.

Never even seen a HD-DVD at BJ's so not sure how much impact this will have.

I've never seen HD Discs of any flavor at any of the BJ's in Western New York.

When BD players hit $199 I might consider it.

Costco carries Sony BDPS301:

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11225997&whse=BC&topnav=&browse=&lang=en-US

I was thinking B&M & for Costco that's quite different than what's carried online. Local to me they still have/carry the HD-D2....................strangely enough with ZERO HDM (neither format) :confused:
It seems like there's not that much differentiation. Only Costco sells a HD DVD player (at barely $100 less than the BD player), but they heavily favor BD in software (84 BD titles versus 26 HD DVD Titles). It used to be HD DVD exclusive earlier in the year ..
Slight is all it takes, & $100 is a massive difference in the consumer's eyes.

I'm not arguing "mindshare", I'm simply saying it's market positioning.

This "announcement" is equivalent to the town drunk announcing he's no longer carrying HD DVD. Irrelevant.

HD DVD is getting squeezed out of distribution - this seems to be Sony's phase two tactic. At some point HD DVD will have to (or not and die) counter with the HD DVD combo only (no DVD release) for some big releases or slowly fade out of the picture. It's the only thing that can effectively emasculate this strategy by the BD group. The longer HD DVD waites the more damage done. All the PR and momentum is going Blu-Ray's way.

Have you noticed that all the companies announcing a push for BD also give lip service to HD DVD. I suspect this is done to discourage an anti-trust investigation - very clever.

Cheers,

Grant

Slight is all it takes, & $100 is a massive difference in the consumer's eyes.


At $99 vs $199 it is. At $369 versus $469 it is much less.

More significant is that costco.com went from HD DVD exclusive to neutral , that samsclub.com is BD exclusive and that BJ B&M will go BD exclusive.

Instead of differentiation, there seems to be more imitation.

Indeed, managers don't want to bet on the wrong/losing format. Any manager betting on 'BD only' can point to Blockbuster, Target, etc to explain that decision. A manager betting on 'HD DVD only' needs a much better story and better makes sure that the decision turns out to be right. Especially with BD outselling HD DVD at 2:1.

Once again - some prespective - some information from Wiki on BJ's Wholesale Club:

Many of BJ's clubs offer special services to members, such as gas stations, home heating oil, propane filling, pharmacies, an optical department, car rentals, and vacation packages. These services vary from location to location. As of 2006, there were 44 BJ's Clubs with pharmacies (now closed), 145 Clubs with an optical department, and 87 Clubs with BJ's gas stations. As of 2007, BJ's has decided to close all pharmacy operations in its clubs.

The company was started by Zayre, a discount department store chain, in 1984, on the Medford/Malden border in Massachusetts. This was and still is the company's flagship store.

Costco carries Sony BDPS301:

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11225997&whse=BC&topnav=&browse=&lang=en-US
http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/2993/img0058qf1.jpg
http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/6425/img0059ix0.jpg

This "announcement" is equivalent to the town drunk announcing he's no longer carrying HD DVD. Irrelevant.

When even the town drunk starts announcing he's no longer carrying HD DVD, something must be going on.

More on BJ's - their Investor Relations report on sales in the month of June 2007:


Excluding sales of gasoline, the average transaction amount for the month of June rose by approximately 3%. Traffic increased by approximately 2%, helped in part by stronger results versus last year in the spring trial membership program.

Sales of food increased by 6% and sales of general merchandise increased by approximately 1%.

Departments with strong sales increases compared to last year included cheese, juices, meat, milk, produce, soda & water, snacks and televisions. Weaker categories versus last year included air conditioners, cigarettes, computer equipment, residential furniture, tires and toys.

http://www.bjsinvestor.com/releaseDetail.cfm?ReleaseID=253794

http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/2993/img0058qf1.jpg
http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/6425/img0059ix0.jpg
That's exactly how it looks in my local Costco store.

At $99 vs $199 it is. At $369 versus $469 it is much less.

More significant is that costco.com went from HD DVD exclusive to neutral , that samsclub.com is BD exclusive and that BJ B&M will go BD exclusive.

Instead of differentiation, there seems to be more imitation.

Indeed, managers don't want to bet on the wrong/losing format. Any manager betting on 'BD only' can point to Blockbuster, Target, etc to explain that decision. A manager betting on 'HD DVD only' needs a much better story and better makes sure that the decision turns out to be right. Especially with BD outselling HD DVD at 2:1.

A manager betting on HD-DVD won't have his job for long.

Wow your BJ's must suck then. There's like 50+ TV's, computers, monitors, stands, mounts, consoles, Etc in my BJ's. You can get a pretty good deal on a TV there. They like to bundle the stands with the sets.

The BJ's by me is good for TV's, too. I'll definitely be heading there to pick up hot new releases on Blu-ray.

Exactly! Like walmart shoppers who buy 99 cent shampoo and pudding, those guys will never buy HD players of any kind! You make a excellent point as to why the low end market is meaningless at this time. Thanks.

I really dont understand the way some of you people think. I buy 80% of my BDs at Walmart. They have the best prices. Everyone shops at walmart and places like that wether they have lots of money or not. It is convienent to go to one place that carrys everything. I dont get how you think another place that only carrys BD in store is not going to be an advantage. The Denial on this website is ridiculous.

I really dont understand the way some of you people think. I buy 80% of my BDs at Walmart. They have the best prices. Everyone shops at walmart and places like that wether they have lots of money or not. It is convienent to go to one place that carrys everything. I dont get how you think another place that only carrys BD in store is not going to be an advantage. The Denial on this website is ridiculous.

QFT

There's a lot of posts on both sides of the pond here (platform wise) that just make me want to scratch my head in disbelief.

At $99 vs $199 it is. At $369 versus $469 it is much less.
Absolutely backwards. The consumer is more likely to buy the $199 unit because the overall price is within the threshold. Studies have proven time & time again $200 & lower are in the "impulse" category = no research, they just grab it.

Items priced above this line are considered = research & consideration. This mean the $99 difference had better offer a significant value.

Short version - it matter more.

according to sources at the retailer and several Hollywood studios.

Sources said the chain will carry Blu-ray exclusively at all its 170 stores, although it continues to carry both formats on its Web site.

Sounds like more Blu Ray paid endcaps. Keep bleeding cash Blu Ray, you keep up the expensive advertising while HD DVD players keep outselling you due to lower prices...

QFT

There's a lot of posts on both sides of the pond here (platform wise) that just make me want to scratch my head in disbelief.
Which ones?

- nobody with two nickles to rub together shops at Wally's?

- if there was only one format adoption would happen overnight?

- they'll fly off the shelves @ $450?

- the total sales of ALL HDM represent more than a gnat on the radar?

It's a long list :D

Wow. I am starting to think that by the time Q4 gets here, this war may be already decided for the general public.

Wow. I am starting to think that by the time Q4 gets here, this war may be already decided for the general public.

You may be right . . neither . . . too expensive compared to DVD and HD on CBL and SAT.

BJ's carries HD DVD and Blu-ray movies? Since when? I've never seen movies of either format in any of the BJ's locations near me. In fact their movie selection generally is quite pathetic.

Absolutely backwards. The consumer is more likely to buy the $199 unit because the overall price is within the threshold. Studies have proven time & time again $200 & lower are in the "impulse" category = no research, they just grab it.

Items priced above this line are considered = research & consideration. This mean the $99 difference had better offer a significant value.

Short version - it matter more.

Nice that you're so well versed in marketing. Since you seem to know these studies so well, does the $200 threshold apply to all products? Once a HD DVD disc is priced below $200, it's an impulse buy and price does not matter any more? Why are all these people complaining then about the price of software? And why would MS bother to lower the price of the add-on from 199 to 179? They just have too much money? What studies have been done on impulse buying when there is a format war? Any links or references?

Sony should do the same in their game depart, buy some exclusive game.
BJ wont effect much in the sales IMO, but it never really about sales at this moment, all about perception. BDA just want to every consumer knows more and more stores are droping HD DVD.

I didn't realize BJ's was still in business. Costco bought all of their clubs in the midwest, and I just assumed they had closed, like happened to Price Club on the west coast when Costco bought most of their stores.

Definitely a BD advantage for east-coasters, a non-event for the rest of us.

How many people here bought their HD DVD or Blu-ray player from BJ's? .

Is that really the point? Some Joe is shopping at Target, sees a fancy BD endcap with a cool demo. He wants it, but too much money. He then is picking up food at BJs, sees the cool BD demo running, impressed again. Soon enough Blu-ray is synonymous with HD movie and he doesn't even know what HD-DVD is. He gets a X-mas bonus and goes to buy that BD player he keeps seeing.

It's called exposure to the mainstream and HD-DVD is becoming the "losing" format to the J6P.

Is that really the point? Some Joe is shopping at Target, sees a fancy BD endcap with a cool demo. He wants it, but too much money. He then is picking up food at BJs, sees the cool BD demo running, impressed again. Soon enough Blu-ray is synonymous with HD movie and he doesn't even know what HD-DVD is. He gets a X-mas bonus and goes to buy that BD player he keeps seeing.
It's called exposure to the mainstream and HD-DVD is becoming the "losing" format to the J6P.

" He gets a X-mas bonus and goes to payoff his $400 home heating oil bill."

There . . . fixed it.

Nice that you're so well versed in marketing. Since you seem to know these studies so well, does the $200 threshold apply to all products? Once a HD DVD disc is priced below $200, it's an impulse buy and price does not matter any more? Why are all these people complaining then about the price of software? And why would MS bother to lower the price of the add-on from 199 to 179? They just have too much money? What studies have been done on impulse buying when there is a format war? Any links or references?
The threshold is fairly well known, do your own google legwork. It applies to many consumer goods, and it's been proven time & time again. Reverse it - name a single format that has gone into mass adoption when the price was over $200?

Zip.

At $200 & under consumers are far more like to say "ah screw it, let's just get it". Once you're above that price it's consideration, where features & value matter more.

" He gets a X-mas pink slip and goes home wondering how he's going pay the $400 the heating oil bill or buy groceries"
Now it's fixed for the '07 season ;)

Well... BJ's doesn't really sell A/V equipment. Unless you want to make the claim that having 1 or 2 DVD players and 2 TV's in store is enough to be considered an electronic store.

BJ's will be a tiny player in this... if at all!

Also, I don't quite understand the idea of trying to sell big ticket items in stores known for catering to penny pinching consumers.


Holy cow, what BJ's do you go to? The one near me (Abingdon, MD) has a HUGE HDTV section, with Sony's, Philips, LG's, Vizio's, Panasonics, Olevia, you name it. Everything from 23" to 65". All displayed and running too. The only thing they haven't had is HDM, not HD DVD nor Blu-ray. Not one disc, not one player. Well, they do have the PS3, but they don't mention Blu-ray.

I wonder if toshiba will announce a price cut on their standalones as a response. That's what they've been doing whenever blu-ray comes out with an announcement.

Is that really the point? Some Joe is shopping at Target, sees a fancy BD endcap with a cool demo. He wants it, but too much money. He then is picking up food at BJs, sees the cool BD demo running, impressed again. Soon enough Blu-ray is synonymous with HD movie and he doesn't even know what HD-DVD is. He gets a X-mas bonus and goes to buy that BD player he keeps seeing.

It's called exposure to the mainstream and HD-DVD is becoming the "losing" format to the J6P.

You are talking fantasy. I've spent decades showing people cool stuff that doesn't mean I'm right but I do have more experience. This anecdote is a common experience.

Back yonder surround sound is hot. A couple comes in and sees the $399 Kenwood AVR that is 100wpc. They guy is talking like he wants quality so my mgr and I take him into the other room. We have a Yamaha AVR and the same Kenwood. The Yamaha is 80wpc and of course more expensive. Naturally he thinks the extra wattage of the Kenwood is going to make a difference.

Jurassic Park is playing on DVD. We choose the seen where they herd of dinos are jumping over the log that the cast is kneeling under. My mgr (being a vet) plays full surround on both..the Yamaha sounds better and gets louder. They guy is making every excuse. We drop the bomb on him. We fade the LCR channels and just play the rear surrounds, after all this "is" surround. The Kenwood steers audio like crap. The Yamaha is smooth and far more articulate. The guys wife even hears the difference.

Guess what amp they bought. Hint, it doesn't start with a Y. He wanted something cheap despite saying he was looking mainly at quality.

My point is ..people will see cool stuff everywhere and you can even demo this and they'll love it. But things change when you ask them to pull out the pocketbook.

If Blu-ray can hit $299 then they are looking really good but if you all think that end caps will suddenly cause someone with a budget of $200 to spend twice that I'd say you don't want to bet on those odds.

I wonder if toshiba will announce a price cut on their standalones as a response. That's what they've been doing whenever blu-ray comes out with an announcement.

I hope so. How does $99 plus 5 free HD-DVD's sound. Sounds awesome to me. KG make it happen big boy and I'll take two :D

My point is ..people will see cool stuff everywhere and you can even demo this and they'll love it. But things change when you ask them to pull out the pocketbook.


Precisely...... great comment.

Kind of like when I was on a buddys fishing boat the other day. I says "Gee, nice boat". I asked what he paid for it. He replied almost $25K. Conversation terminated.

:D

Bailey151 Quoted:
" He gets a X-mas pink slip and goes home wondering how he's going pay the $400 the heating oil bill or buy groceries"


Now it's fixed for the '07 season

I can't laugh because this may be the truth of the matter much more than anyone realizes. It is an interesting sight that I see. I look out and see a sea of people with their heads stuck in the sand . . .and on the horizon in clear, plain sight - is a hoard of hungry lions.

We have been spinning and massaging and plain ignoring the facts of the economy. We are borrowing to pay bills and fill up our cars and pay for our car insuramce and home insurance with no thought to the day that is coming . . . .

"Your bill sir . . . how would you like to pay for that? . . . . with your house? . . .or your first born?

The threshold is fairly well known, do your own google legwork. It applies to many consumer goods, and it's been proven time & time again.

Hey, you're the one who made and keep on making the big claims in the sense of 'it's been proven time & time again'.

I purely coincidentally happen to know some of the academic research on impulse buying, but nothing on a magical threshold that applies to 'many consumer goods'. So I would obviously be very interested to hear more. But if you have not really seen the research and need to do 'google legwork' to come up with something, then no need to do so. I guess I know the result of doing some 'google legwork' on this: some unsubstantiated claims on a forum somewhere where one guy was trying to explain why $199 was a key price point.

It'll be funny when one of the big three retailers announces an exclusivity so the other camp can dissect their sales numbers to show us how irrelevant their stores are to the mass market.

*scratches head*.

I can't laugh because this may be the truth of the matter much more than anyone realizes. It is an interesting sight that I see. I look out and see a sea of people with their heads stuck in the sand . . .and on the horizon in clear, plain sight - is a hoard of hungry lions.

We have been spinning and massaging and plain ignoring the facts of the economy. We are borrowing to pay bills and fill up our cars and pay for our car insuramce and home insurance with no thought to the day that is coming . . . .

"Your bill sir . . . how would you like to pay for that? . . . . with your house? . . .or your first born?

My God, is it that bad in HD-DVD land? Here in Blu-ray heaven we have sunshine, record low unemployment, the highest per-capita income in history and happy children.

It'll be funny when one of the big three retailers announces an exclusivity so the other camp can dissect their sales numbers to show us how irrelevant their stores are to the mass market.

*scratches head*.


The key word here is "when". Don't hold your breath on seeing this happen.

I hope so. How does $99 plus 5 free HD-DVD's sound. Sounds awesome to me. KG make it happen big boy and I'll take two :D

It doesn't matter if they give them away for free because HD-DVD cases are the wrong color. Blu-ray cases are blue which is the color of the ocean, which represents freedom. HD-DVD cases are red which represents things like communisim, the gum disease gingivitis, and the menstrual cycle, all of which are bad things.

It doesn't matter if they give them away for free because HD-DVD cases are the wrong color. Blu-ray cases are blue which is the color of the ocean, which represents freedom. HD-DVD cases are red which represents things like communisim, the gum disease gingivitis, and the menstrual cycle, all of which are bad things.

What a LOAD OF FUD!


We’re conditioned to notice color. It’s one of the first things we notice on products or materials. The way we view those colors psychologically triggers how we feel and think.They even influence us to buy.

Think about some of the top brands. When you picture IBM, Wal-Mart or HP, do you see blue? When you think of a Target store, do you see the red bullseye? With American Express, you automatically see green. When you think of McDonald’s, don’t you see those yellow arches with the red sign?

Those colors were not chosen by accident. IBM represents business. American Express is all about money. McDonald’s wants to get your emotions stimulated and make you hungry. They know their target market.

Here’s a list of frequently used colors and how people generally associate them:

WHITE – White is associated with innocence, purity, peace and contentment. It’s considered clean and sterile. It’s cool and refreshing. White can have a calming, stabilizing influence.

BLACK – Black is the ultimate power color.It suggests strength, potency, authority, boldness, seriousness, stability and elegance. It’s distinguished and classic, great for creating drama. Black has more weight than other colors. Too much can be ominous.

Gray or Silver – Gray can be associated with conservative qualities and considered traditional. Business-wise, it symbolizes high tech and suggests authority, practicality, earnestness and creativity.

GOLD – Gold suggests wealth. It’s considered to be very classy.

BLUE – Blue is the favorite color of many businesses. It suggests sanctuary and fiscal responsibility. It inspires confidence. It is the most popular and second most powerful color. Darker shades are authoritative. Dark and bright blues represent trust, security, faithfulness and dignity. Paler shades can imply freshness and cleanliness, although they can imply weakness.

RED – Red stimulates many kinds of appetites. Red commands attention, alerts us and creates a sense of urgency. It’s considered the sexiest of all colors. Red symbolizes heat, fire, blood, love, warmth, power, excitement, energy, strength, passion, vitality, risk, danger and aggressiveness.

YELLOW – Yellow is the sunshine hue and is a spiritual color. Yellow represents a warning, but it can also bring happiness and warmth. The most preferred yellows are the creamy and warm ones. Bright yellow can be irritable to the eye in large quantities. Yellow speeds metabolism. It’s often used to highlight or draw attention.

GREEN – People associate green with the color of money, as well as nature. Olive greens are associated with health and freshness — a good choice for environmental concerns. Green suggests fertility, freedom, healing and tranquility. Green represents jealousy. Businesses use it to communicate status and wealth. Green is a calming, refreshing color that is very easy on the eyes.

BROWN – Brown is associated with nature and the earth. Dark browns represent wood or leather. Brown and shades of cream are associated with warmth and coziness. Brown suggests richness, politeness, helpfulness and effectiveness. It is solid, credible, mature and reliable. Light brown implies genuineness.

ORANGE – Orange is associated with vibrancy and the tropics, as well as warmth and contentment. It can instill a sense of fun and excitement. It implies health. It suggests pleasure, cheer, endurance, generosity and ambition. It can make an expensive product seem more affordable. It appeals to a wide range of people, both male and female.

PINK – Pink is considered to be a very feminine color. It represents gentleness, romance, well being and innocence.

PURPLE – Purple represents royalty and luxury. In darker shades, it’s considered a wealthy color. It suggests spirituality and sophistication. In paler shades, such as lavender, it’s feminine and romantic.

What a LOAD OF FUD!


We’re conditioned to notice color. It’s one of the first things we notice on products or materials. The way we view those colors psychologically triggers how we feel and think.They even influence us to buy.

Think about some of the top brands. When you picture IBM, Wal-Mart or HP, do you see blue? When you think of a Target store, do you see the red bullseye? With American Express, you automatically see green. When you think of McDonald’s, don’t you see those yellow arches with the red sign?

Those colors were not chosen by accident. IBM represents business. American Express is all about money. McDonald’s wants to get your emotions stimulated and make you hungry. They know their target market.

Here’s a list of frequently used colors and how people generally associate them:

WHITE – White is associated with innocence, purity, peace and contentment. It’s considered clean and sterile. It’s cool and refreshing. White can have a calming, stabilizing influence.

BLACK – Black is the ultimate power color.It suggests strength, potency, authority, boldness, seriousness, stability and elegance. It’s distinguished and classic, great for creating drama. Black has more weight than other colors. Too much can be ominous.

Gray or Silver – Gray can be associated with conservative qualities and considered traditional. Business-wise, it symbolizes high tech and suggests authority, practicality, earnestness and creativity.

GOLD – Gold suggests wealth. It’s considered to be very classy.

BLUE – Blue is the favorite color of many businesses. It suggests sanctuary and fiscal responsibility. It inspires confidence. It is the most popular and second most powerful color. Darker shades are authoritative. Dark and bright blues represent trust, security, faithfulness and dignity. Paler shades can imply freshness and cleanliness, although they can imply weakness.

RED – Red stimulates many kinds of appetites. Red commands attention, alerts us and creates a sense of urgency. It’s considered the sexiest of all colors. Red symbolizes heat, fire, blood, love, warmth, power, excitement, energy, strength, passion, vitality, risk, danger and aggressiveness.

YELLOW – Yellow is the sunshine hue and is a spiritual color. Yellow represents a warning, but it can also bring happiness and warmth. The most preferred yellows are the creamy and warm ones. Bright yellow can be irritable to the eye in large quantities. Yellow speeds metabolism. It’s often used to highlight or draw attention.

GREEN – People associate green with the color of money, as well as nature. Olive greens are associated with health and freshness — a good choice for environmental concerns. Green suggests fertility, freedom, healing and tranquility. Green represents jealousy. Businesses use it to communicate status and wealth. Green is a calming, refreshing color that is very easy on the eyes.

BROWN – Brown is associated with nature and the earth. Dark browns represent wood or leather. Brown and shades of cream are associated with warmth and coziness. Brown suggests richness, politeness, helpfulness and effectiveness. It is solid, credible, mature and reliable. Light brown implies genuineness.

ORANGE – Orange is associated with vibrancy and the tropics, as well as warmth and contentment. It can instill a sense of fun and excitement. It implies health. It suggests pleasure, cheer, endurance, generosity and ambition. It can make an expensive product seem more affordable. It appeals to a wide range of people, both male and female.

PINK – Pink is considered to be a very feminine color. It represents gentleness, romance, well being and innocence.

PURPLE – Purple represents royalty and luxury. In darker shades, it’s considered a wealthy color. It suggests spirituality and sophistication. In paler shades, such as lavender, it’s feminine and romantic.

Lol, you should stand in front of a bull with a bunch of red hddvd cases and lets see what happens :p

My God, is it that bad in HD-DVD land? Here in Blu-ray heaven we have sunshine, record low unemployment, the highest per-capita income in history and happy children.

Huh? You talking about the U.S.? Where are you getting your economic data from, the same place Sony gets its BR vs HD DVD data?

Hey, you're the one who made and keep on making the big claims in the sense of 'it's been proven time & time again'.

I purely coincidentally happen to know some of the academic research on impulse buying, but nothing on a magical threshold that applies to 'many consumer goods'. So I would obviously be very interested to hear more. But if you have not really seen the research and need to do 'google legwork' to come up with something, then no need to do so. I guess I know the result of doing some 'google legwork' on this: some unsubstantiated claims on a forum somewhere where one guy was trying to explain why $199 was a key price point.
Here's one - recent statements (http://www.hometheaterforum.com/ema2007/HD-DVD%20DEBATE%20Video%201.html)

But then it's likely you think He's full of manure also, he's gotten his position by being an idiot. Notice he mentions where he gets the price points.

But then we could just look at a few -

CD players
VCRs
DVD players

All of these hit significant market penetration once below the $200 threshold.

But hey, the $450 + up BD players will change all that. Oh, that's right we have to adjust for inflation - too damn bad the consumer never does. :rolleyes:

Huh? You talking about the U.S.? Where are you getting your economic data from, the same place Sony gets its BR vs HD DVD data?

LMAO

I think it is time to start updating something like this. ;)
http://www.lynxfx.com/forumpics/goblu-universal.jpg

That is awesome! :cool:

For the record though, I've certainly heard of and enjoyed BJ's but I've never heard of BJ's Wholesale Club.

Here's one - recent statements (http://www.hometheaterforum.com/ema2007/HD-DVD%20DEBATE%20Video%201.html)

But then it's likely you think He's full of manure also, he's gotten his position by being an idiot. Notice he mentions where he gets the price points.

But then we could just look at a few -

CD players
VCRs
DVD players

All of these hit significant market penetration once below the $200 threshold.

But hey, the $450 + up BD players will change all that. Oh, that's right we have to adjust for inflation - too damn bad the consumer never does. :rolleyes:

1) He didn't say anything about impulse buying. And he didn't give any reference. He simply said that research showed that $199 was a critical point. Didn't even say whether that was conditional on the war being over or not, which makes a huge difference.

2) He heads the HD DVD forum whose main claim to victory is that they will sell a player below $199. What do you want him to claim?

3) My claim was that the price difference between $369 and $469 was LESS significant (in the eyes of consumers) than between $199 and $99. You said that that was backwards. In other words, you claimed that a 100% price difference below $199 was LESS important than a 25% price difference above $199.
He did not mention anything about price elasticity above versus below $199. And I'm sure he would be stunned if you concluded that from what he said.

4) The fact that all products that took off did so when their price point was below $199 does not imply that a product with a price point below $199 will take off. A implies B does not imply B implies A.

So again, if you can point me to any of that research that shows over and over again that for many consumer products $199 is the threshold for impulse buys, let me know. But if you need to do Google legwork, don't bother because all you'll find is some vague statements of a guy on a forum who tries to defend a $199 price point.

That is awesome! :cool:

For the record though, I've certainly heard of and enjoyed BJ's but I've never heard of BJ's Wholesale Club.
Thanks. :) I believe BJ's Wholesale Club is an East Coast store. It's been 10 years since I've lived over there but they were about as common as Costco or Sam's Club, usually all in the same area as well. I think I still have an old BJ's card. Whipped it out for the girlfriend a couple times...no such luck. :(

BJ's Wholesale Club locations:

Connecticut
Derby
Fairfield
Manchester
North Haven
Torrington
Wallingford
Waterbury
Waterford
West Hartford
Willimantic


Delaware
Newark
New Castle


Florida
Boynton Beach
Cape Coral
Cutler Ridge
Fort Myers
Hialeah
Hollywood
Homestead
Jacksonville - Atlantic Blvd
Jacksonville - Phillips Highway
Jensen Beach
Kendall
Kissimmee
Melbourne
Merritt Island
Miami Lakes
Orange Park
Orlando - I-4 at Conroy Rd.
Orlando - Waterford Lakes area
Parkland
Pembroke Pines
Royal Palm Beach
Sanford
Sarasota
Sunrise
Tampa
Tampa - Waters Ave.
West Kendall

Georgia
Conyers
Cumming
East Point
McDonough
Newnan
Norcross
Powder Springs
Woodstock


Maine
Auburn
Portland


Maryland
Baltimore
Bel Air
Bowie
Columbia
Lexington Park
Owings Mills
Pasadena
Waldorf
Westminster


Massachusetts
Auburn
Chicopee
Danvers
Dedham
Framingham
Franklin
Greenfield
Hyannis
Leominster
Medford
North Dartmouth
Plymouth
South Attleboro
Stoneham
Stoughton
Taunton
Westborough
Weymouth


New Hampshire
Hooksett
Nashua
Portsmouth
Salem
Tilton
W. Lebanon

New Jersey
Deptford
East Rutherford
Edison
Flemington
Hamilton Township
Jersey City
Linden
Maple Shade
Mays Landing
Ocean Township
Old Bridge
Paramus
Riverdale
Roxbury
Toms River
Vineland
Voorhees
Watchung


New York
Albany
Allegany
Auburn-Sennett
Batavia
Brooklyn
Clarence
Clay
College Point
E. Setauket
E. Syracuse
Farmingdale
Freeport
Geneva
Greece
Hamburg
Henrietta
Islandia
Levittown
Massena
Middle Village, Queens
Monroe
Oneonta
Riverhead
Rotterdam
Saratoga Springs
Tonawanda
Utica
Valley Stream
Victor
Wappingers Falls
Webster
Westbury
West Nyack
Yorktown Heights

North Carolina
Cary
Charlotte
Concord
Garner
Mooresville
Pineville
Raleigh
Raleigh - Capital Boulevard


Ohio
Akron
Avon
Middleburg Heights
North Canton
Warrensville Heights
Willoughby


Pennsylvania
Allentown
Camp Hill
Downingtown
Lancaster
Langhorne
Philadelphia
Plymouth Meeting
Reading
South Philadelphia
Springfield
Stroudsburg
Warrington
York


Rhode Island
Coventry
Johnston
Middletown


South Carolina
Greenville


Virginia
Alexandria
Chesapeake
Fairfax
Fredericksburg
Hampton
Mechanicsville
Norfolk
Virginia Beach
Woodbridge

http://www.bjs.com/locations/

It doesn't matter if they give them away for free because HD-DVD cases are the wrong color. Blu-ray cases are blue which is the color of the ocean, which represents freedom. HD-DVD cases are red which represents things like communisim, the gum disease gingivitis, and the menstrual cycle, all of which are bad things.


http://mynameisearlkress.com/weblog/elmer_fudd01.jpg

Happy for me. I live in Natick, MA the HQ town for BJ's with the main office and the main store right across the street where they test all their new products and shoot commercials and in-store promos and stuff.

Hopefully this means they'll be offering a good selection of software and some decent prices as well.

Funny how I bought my Toshiba D2 (A2) at BJ's, but right down the street at Costco's they didn't even carry any HD DVD or Blu Ray merchandise.

Dedham, MA & Stoughton, MA BJ's seem to carry more electronics (A/V) than the Dedham Costco's...plus BJ's have a much better selection of DVD's too.

I only wished that either store would carry HD DVD's and/or Blu Ray Disc!

I saw some discussion about the type of customer that shops at Costco vs. BJ's and Sam's Club.

Costco's customer base generally has more disposable income than those that shop at Sam's or BJ's and Costco builds stores in those locations. As a company they see themselves as a nicer place to shop than Sam's or BJ's.

It's similar to Target vs. Wal-Mart, while both are stores that offer the same general types of merchandise, Target does not cater to the Wal-Mart shopper, they cater to a shopper who has more disposable income, basically what would be considered middle-middle class and higher. It is even reflected in how they build their stores. You walk into a Wal-Mart and you see the underside of the roof deck and the ductwork which has only been painted. It has much more of a cheap warehouse type feel to the store, and there is always junk in the aisles. You walk into a Target, you have acoustical ceiling tile ceilings, they are well lit, floors are always clean and there are no displays in the aisles, the stores are neat, and any store that has been built or remodeled in the last 3 years has a Starbucks in it.

If Walmart looks like a cheap warehouse, where does Costco sit? :p

You are talking fantasy. I've spent decades showing people cool stuff that doesn't mean I'm right but I do have more experience. This anecdote is a common experience.

Back yonder surround sound is hot. A couple comes in and sees the $399 Kenwood AVR that is 100wpc. They guy is talking like he wants quality so my mgr and I take him into the other room. We have a Yamaha AVR and the same Kenwood. The Yamaha is 80wpc and of course more expensive. Naturally he thinks the extra wattage of the Kenwood is going to make a difference.

Jurassic Park is playing on DVD. We choose the seen where they herd of dinos are jumping over the log that the cast is kneeling under. My mgr (being a vet) plays full surround on both..the Yamaha sounds better and gets louder. They guy is making every excuse. We drop the bomb on him. We fade the LCR channels and just play the rear surrounds, after all this "is" surround. The Kenwood steers audio like crap. The Yamaha is smooth and far more articulate. The guys wife even hears the difference.

Guess what amp they bought. Hint, it doesn't start with a Y. He wanted something cheap despite saying he was looking mainly at quality.

My point is ..people will see cool stuff everywhere and you can even demo this and they'll love it. But things change when you ask them to pull out the pocketbook.

If Blu-ray can hit $299 then they are looking really good but if you all think that end caps will suddenly cause someone with a budget of $200 to spend twice that I'd say you don't want to bet on those odds.

Audio is a lot different than video. People have a harder time distinguishing between 2 different receivers. DVD-A is dead, despite sounding great. I remember when I bought my kenwood Sovereign 5700 AMP & DVD player. The first thing I did was buy 2 DVD-As and swear that I wouldnt buy CDs again.

Take a wild guess as to how many DVD-As I have.

When it comes to video, it seems there are more people willing to spend the big bucks. You will find a lot of houses with 2K TVs, and a $199 HTIB.

People just dont care enough about audio... and thats sad

It doesn't matter if they give them away for free because HD-DVD cases are the wrong color. Blu-ray cases are blue which is the color of the ocean, which represents freedom. HD-DVD cases are red which represents things like communisim, the gum disease gingivitis, and the menstrual cycle, all of which are bad things.
Blue Balls (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_balls) doesn't sound too pleasant :D

Holy cow, what BJ's do you go to? The one near me (Abingdon, MD) has a HUGE HDTV section, with Sony's, Philips, LG's, Vizio's, Panasonics, Olevia, you name it. Everything from 23" to 65". All displayed and running too. The only thing they haven't had is HDM, not HD DVD nor Blu-ray. Not one disc, not one player. Well, they do have the PS3, but they don't mention Blu-ray.

I go to the only location nearby and it's in N. Dartmouth, Ma. If anyone is local to the area and has been there, then they know what I'm talking about. And honestly, the only reason we have a membership there is for the cheap gas, diapers, and baby wipes. They do have a decent amount of DVD's, but I've never seen any HDM there.

HDDVD is the Titanic and Blu-ray is the iceberg, you know the rest...

HDDVD is the Titanic and Blu-ray is the iceberg, you know the rest...

Tell me twin, do you ever debate ANYTHING? Or is it all about lame one liner slams against HDDVD?

Lol, you should stand in front of a bull with a bunch of red hddvd cases and lets see what happens :p




Bulls are color blind.

Well, our BJ's (Abingdon, MD) had a new display with the Sony BDP300 whatever blu-ray player. First HDM player ever seen in the store. Still no discs. Unfortunately, I have to conclude the war is won. Stupid expensive blu-ray is showing up everywhere. Me and the rest of J6P are left out in the cold. Merry Freakin Christmas...

....and the menstrual cycle, all of which are bad things.
??
Oooh, I'm sooo tempted; must...resist.....

BJ's Wholesale Club stores to carry Blu-ray exclusively

By Jennifer Netherby -- Video Business, 7/26/2007
JULY 26 | East Coast chain BJ’s Wholesale Club will drop HD DVD from its shelves and carry the Blu-ray Disc format exclusively by the fourth quarter, according to sources at the retailer and several Hollywood studios.

Sources said the chain will carry Blu-ray exclusively at all its 170 stores, although it continues to carry both formats on its Web site.

A spokesperson for the chain didn’t immediately return calls for comment.

BJ’s' move follows Target and Blockbuster, both of which have announced they will increase the presence and support of Blu-ray in stores. Both chains, however, will continue to carry HD DVD movies to some extent.

http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6463556.html
Probably another shameless lie, like the BDA spunned "Target going Blu-ray story." :rolleyes:
Yeah, you read right, the Target story is false.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=881983

Probably another shameless lie, like the BDA spunned "Target going Blu-ray story." :rolleyes:
Yeah, you read right, the Target story is false.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=881983

Hah, you clearly never read the original article. It only said that they were going to exclusively sell BD players in their B&M stores. It was very clear about that.

A little bit like Toshiba was very clear that when they say 'we have 73% market share in Europe' that they forgot to count the most popular BD player because if they did they would be lagging rather than leading.

So the story is not false, you just didn't read it carefully enough. Just like those who say that Toshiba was patently lying and that their story was wrong just didn't read it carefully enough.

Are there lies that aren't shameless?

Target is doing their customers a service by picking a format...it helps to take the confusion out of which to buy. Target is a well run, profitable growing company. I am sure the details to go with such a move were well thought out and based on information and thinking that many arm chair quarterbacks here couldn't understand. Unless you are in the board room and have access to all the facts, data, etc, the opinions about why Target did what they did are simply disguised feelings of disappointment.

They did what they did and life goes on. THere are other places to shop if you disapprove.

Too much bickering and WAY too many off-topic posts. Topic closed.