http://www.dvdempire.com/Content/Features/hidef_wars.asp?view=1&userid=99365744096500

At least at that site HD DVD is moving in the right direction. :) Also I noted they show HD DVD as having 29 studios and BD with 25.

Best available sales figures (total disc sales across all retailers):

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/4167/nielsenel4.jpg

Best available sales figures (total disc sales across all retailers):



Actually that would be best available to us sales figures (total disc sales across SOME retailers) as many retailers do not report to Nielson

http://www.dvdempire.com/Content/Features/hidef_wars.asp?view=1&userid=99365744096500

At least at that site HD DVD is moving in the right direction. :) Also I noted they show HD DVD as having 29 studios and BD with 25.
Yeah, though some folks don't want to admit it. HD DVD is slowly catching up to Blu-ray, and I think it will eventually overtake it. There will be some weeks were Blu-ray will seem to do quite well, and others where Blu-ray will not, but overall HD DVD is in it for the win. Protracted, yes, but definitely looking good for HD DVD nonetheless.

As for the number of studios, HD DVD has the most support worldwide.

It really comes down to the movies being released. It seems as though Blu-Ray is releasing titles aimed at the PS3 crowd (action flicks) and the strategy is paying off. However, I think overall it's causing alot of quality catalog titles to end up in limbo because no one is buying them. It's a no brainer that something like POTC is going to outsell Casablanca, but I think Casablanca would sell more copies on HD DVD than Blu-Ray at this point. I am concerned about HD DVD's numbers come December with summer blockbusters like Spiderman 3 and POTC 3 being Blu-Ray exclusive. I don't really know what they can release to combat that onslaught.

While i'll buy the PotC BRD simply because it was a darn good flick and likely will be a first rate BRD, I doubt Spiderman 3 will fare nearly as wel simply because the movie wasn't very good and once you've seen it, that's pretty much it, you don't want to sit through it again, unlike PotC 3.You have to remember, there aren't a whole lot of teens that own or have access to PS3's the way they do PS2's and/or dvd players.Spiderman 3 BRD might do well as a rental but beyond that i don't see it breaking any records sales wise.The Harry Potter&TOOTP HD DVD and Transformer's(HD DVD/BRD)will do a helluva lot better than Spiderman 3 overall partly because they were better movies and did better box office and partly because they will ship in more formats thus increasing sales by a ton more.

I honestly believe the new Bourne movie will do very well in terms of sales. From the early reviews I've read this movie is ACTION PACKED! Then theres Knocked up which is possibly one of the biggest surprise titles of the year. I like what HD has coming in the next couple of months.

Best available sales figures (total disc sales across all retailers):

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/4167/nielsenel4.jpg

Bullshat. Even the videoscan page specifically says "Some internet retailers"

If you cannot provide an accurate list of who is or isn't counted then you have nothing but your "assumption" as to who's counted and + $.50 won't buy us a coffee.

You're welcome to believe in the numbers but I didn't spend many years in the education system so that I could believe in potentially false information. It wouldn't kill Neilsen to provide disclosure of the retailers involved. Since they haven't done that my "assumption" is they have something to hide.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=796036

There's other threads for sales figures. Regardless of sales #'s, you don't see any of the hd-dvd studios halting new releases, so they are clearly still making money and that is all that matters to me.

http://www.dvdempire.com/Content/Features/hidef_wars.asp?view=1&userid=99365744096500

At least at that site HD DVD is moving in the right direction. :) Also I noted they show HD DVD as having 29 studios and BD with 25.Things are not looking so bad for HD-DVD, at least according to that site. Regardless of how hard Sony PR huffs and puffs, people are stilling buying into HD-DVD at record numbers. I don't know the figures, but anecdotal evidence points to Toshiba pushing a great number of units. Surely this will have to have an effect on disc sales. We also have yet to see if the Xbox add-on deal will have any effect to offset the PS3 sales. So much is still up in the air, its anybody's game!

It's funny how can discount Nielson, the most trusted and respected name in polling/rating in terms of broadcast media for decades merely because you don't like the message they are conveying. That is SO convenient.

Yeah, though some folks don't want to admit it. HD DVD is slowly catching up to Blu-ray, and I think it will eventually overtake it.

Now I hate to be the guy to say this, but I'm calling BS on this "HD-DVD is catching Blu-Ray" business. What is this based on, Miss Chloe? Look at the Nielson graphs which I've painstakingly linked out in chronological order so you can see the *trend* of the "since inception" graph. Note that this begins at the *end* of the HD-DVD drought when things got better. The biggest percentage jumps certainly happened prior to April.

By my math, the trend here doesn't support your statement, that is unless you choose to not believe Nielson. That's fine if you do, but know you are the only people doing that.

http://img480.imageshack.us/img480/3750/newnielseniy9.jpg

http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/3773/highdefar8.jpg

http://img479.imageshack.us/img479/6386/blockbusterte2.jpg

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/4167/nielsenel4.jpg

It's funny how can discount Nielson, the most trusted and respected name in polling/rating in terms of broadcast media for decades merely because you don't like the message they are conveying. That is SO convenient.

No one's discounting Nielsen numbers because they harbor some vendetta against the company. Some of us simply want more data detailing which retail stores are counted and which aren't.

I'm a curous person by nature and the key to not being deceived is to read the small print.

No one's discounting Nielsen numbers because they harbor some vendetta against the company. Some of us simply want more data detailing which retail stores are counted and which aren't.

I'm a curous person by nature and the key to not being deceived is to read the small print.

Fair enough. Perhaps I was over-generalizing. Most of the time when Nielson numbers are linked, the response from the HD-DVD crowd is that they are wrong. Surely, I don't consider them gospel, but I think it's the best data we have. You have consider them as reliable as anything based on who they are and their reputation. However it's prudent to look at amazon sales rankings, dvd-empire (as you have) etc and try to come up with the clearest picture you can.

How big can you make it jackass?

Now I hate to be the guy to say this, but I'm calling BS on this "HD-DVD is catching Blu-Ray" business. What is this based on, Miss Chloe? Look at the Nielson graphs which I've painstakingly linked out in chronological order so you can see the *trend* of the "since inception" graph. Note that this begins at the *end* of the HD-DVD drought when things got better. The biggest percentage jumps certainly happened prior to April.

By my math, the trend here doesn't support your statement, that is unless you choose to not believe Nielson. That's fine if you do, but know you are the only people doing that.
]

http://www.eproductwars.com/dvd/graphs/salesrank-1-1-recent30.jpg

Notice the big DIP on July 16th. There were no releases for HD DVD on the 17th and the release schedule on the 10th was rather trepid. Thus it's fairly easy to explain the 74/26 results for WE July 22nd.

However in this thread alone we've seen Empire DVD's numbers corroborate Amazon's numbers which clearly show a surge in HD DVD sales which nicely correspond to a nice bevvy of movies being release on July 24th and Aug 1st.

So we have two data sources that are single entities going up against Nielsen which none of you can provide empirical data showing who is and isn't being counted. We're just supposed to "blindly" trust numbers that we have no idea how they were collected or who they were collected from.

Faith is nice on Sundays fellas but Monday-Saturday lets try to bring a bit more meat to the discussion.

http://www.eproductwars.com/dvd/graphs/salesrank-1-1-recent30.jpg

Faith is nice on Sundays fellas but Monday-Saturday lets try to bring a bit more meat to the discussion.

It's interesting that on 7/10 there was only 1 release on BD and there wasn't the same kind of drop as the big dip on the 17th for HD with no releases. If you check the amazon trend back, BD isn't nearly influenced by release schedule as HD is. I think that supports Nielson's numbers.

http://www.eproductwars.com/dvd/graphs/top10000-1-1-All.jpg

Is that meat enough for you, or have you gone vegan?

It's interesting that on 7/10 there was only 1 release on BD and there wasn't the same kind of drop as the big dip on the 17th for HD with no releases. If you check the amazon trend back, BD isn't nearly influenced by release schedule as HD is. I think that supports Nielson's numbers.

I think you're correct. I was thinking about this a couple of days ago. With 1.5+ million Blu-ray players you have the kind of numbers that can create quite a flurry of movie sales. The sales don't exactly have to be a new release. I noticed the Fry's here running a nice 2 for 25 Blu-ray deal for a couple of weeks. That's just the kind of sale that will help the movie numbers even when the new release schedule has an off week IMO.

With 500k players HD DVD is more wholly dependent on delivering releases that will get people buying rather than holding off.

Not surprising that Toshiba is planning on delivering a scorched Earth campaign with low cost (supposedly) players to swell the numbers quickly up to a million. If they can do that they should gain more consistency and of course increased sales overall.

I I noticed the Fry's here running a nice 2 for 25 Blu-ray deal for a couple of weeks. That's just the kind of sale that will help the movie numbers even when the new release schedule has an off week IMO.



I complained to some management folks at Fry's about the 2 for 25 Blu-ray deal they have once in a while. Why can't they do the same thing with HD DVDs? I'm sure they will sell tons. Just look at the last sale on HD DVD 11.99 each. They sold out on most stores.

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/3054/dvdempirerq4.png

http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/903/amazonplayerso8.png

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/4247/hd7day10tk4.png

Here we can see the sources.

Can we PLEASE stop it. Everybody can find a couple of statistics (from selected, handpicked retailers) that favor his own best interest and agenda.

That's why there is Nielsen/Videoscan. It is universally accepted as the best, most complete source of sales data available today.

Posting DVDEmpire sales, Amazon sales ranks or the weekly sales numbers of the little DVD store right around the corner of mother's sweet little apartment is just looking for one or two statistics that YOU like.

That's why we have Nielsen. It was accepted by this part of the forum when HD-DVD was still in the lead. There are always BIG CHEERS when the gap closes somewhat. But when HD-DVD "has a bad week" (and in all honesty 74:26 is the second largest gap ever BUT it is still just ONE week with no major new releases) suddenly everybody looks for some nice DVDEmpire listings and sees a positive trend...

Excuse me very much, but this is a very unhealthy and pathetic combination of denial and despondency.


When talking about sales should be meaningful we need to agree on one SINGLE, best available data source. If anybody has a better suggestion than Nielsen/Videoscan please let us know.

I wouldn't call Amazon, the largest online retailer in the world, "a couple of statistics (from selected, handpicked retailers)". If it was some other mom and pop shop, then you would have a point.

DVDEmpire is relevant as it was supposed to be the topic of the thread.

As hmurchison stated one of the major problems HD-DVD as a format continues to face is the still very low installed user base. This makes it very vulnerable to the release schedule of supporting studios.

One thing about online retailers like Amazon - Amazon sales always favor HD-DVD in contrast to US total sales for two reasons

- demographic (HD-DVD owners tend to be more price sensitive and therefor shop online)

- imports (HD-DVD is Region-free. I'm just one of the majority of European enthusiasts who import practically each and every HD-DVD release from the US (preferably Amazon, DVDpacific, DVDEmpire), even with shipping costs it is CHEAPER to import my HD-DVDs than order it locally from Amazon.de. So the export market for HD-DVD in the US is a major part of the equation.)

Why doesn't Neilson reveal their sources?

The way I look at it is that the PS3 definitely helped but with the amount of them out there it certainly wasn't the trojan horse Sony wanted. If it was the numbers would be BD 95% and HD DVD 5% and Toshiba & co. would be closing up shop next week. Blu-ray, as a whole, appears to have an atrocious software attach rate (amount of titles sold per player).

Yeah, though some folks don't want to admit it. HD DVD is slowly catching up to Blu-ray, and I think it will eventually overtake it. There will be some weeks were Blu-ray will seem to do quite well, and others where Blu-ray will not, but overall HD DVD is in it for the win. Protracted, yes, but definitely looking good for HD DVD nonetheless.

As for the number of studios, HD DVD has the most support worldwide.

Oh please, didn't you get called out on this hyping incomplete DVDEmpire numbers thing before? Please wait until the final figures from the week are posted on Tuesdays.

The July 24th numbers posted here are incomplete, looking just like the below example:

Your post here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11009041&&#post11009041) with the incomplete, non-totalled #'s for July 10th with the 53/46 BD numbers
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t208/MidnightWatcher_photos/Stats.png

The FINAL July 10th numbers

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w145/columbine420/weekending071007.jpg

As hmurchison stated one of the major problems HD-DVD as a format continues to face is the still very low installed user base. This makes it very vulnerable to the release schedule of supporting studios.

One thing about online retailers like Amazon - Amazon sales always favor HD-DVD in contrast to US total sales for two reasons

- demographic (HD-DVD owners tend to be more price sensitive and therefor shop online)

- imports (HD-DVD is Region-free. I'm just one of the majority of European enthusiasts who import practically each and every HD-DVD release from the US (preferably Amazon, DVDpacific, DVDEmpire), even with shipping costs it is CHEAPER to import my HD-DVDs than order it locally from Amazon.de. So the export market for HD-DVD in the US is a major part of the equation.)


Actually, there a very much import on the BD side aswell. There are not that much great content on either camp this side of the atlantic, and so far majority of the BDs has been region free (wich is a good thing)

And the price...

Best available sales figures (total disc sales across all retailers):

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/4167/nielsenel4.jpg
This is not accurate. In the top 10, it includes Resident Evil, the movie Amazon was giving away when Sony lowered the PS3 price! What about the 2 movies Wal-mart was giving away with Blu-ray players? This is a joke! This includes free movies that the customer had no choice but to get when they ordered the hardware.

This is not accurate. In the top 10, it includes Resident Evil, the movie Amazon was giving away when Sony lowered the PS3 price! What about the 2 movies Wal-mart was giving away with Blu-ray players? This is a joke! This includes free movies that the customer had no choice but to get when they ordered the hardware.

You are joking, right?
So any promotions don't count. See which camp has more give-aways-for-free.

I wouldn't call Amazon, the largest online retailer in the world, "a couple of statistics (from selected, handpicked retailers)". If it was some other mom and pop shop, then you would have a point.FWIW, Amazon is included in Nielsen, so the sales numbers are still 2-3:1 in spite of Amazon's charts.

Sales Talk belongs in sales thread.