I'm just curious and want to get a few opinions on how organizations should be using their precious marketing dollars for promoting their new HD format.

What do you think are the most effective methods?

Internet advertising?
Print advertising?
Television advertising?
Billboard advertising?
Movie Theatre Trailers?
Commercial placement in Televison and Movies?
Dedicated displays in stores?
Dedicated sales reps in stores?
Paid online fan support?
Paid online media outlet support?
Exclusive contracts with studios?
Exclusive contracts with retailers?
Exclusive contracts with rental companies?

Other suggestions?

What do you think the advertising should focus on?

Features?
Price?
Studio Support?
Movie Titles?
Manufacturer Support?
Compatability?
Interactivity?


We have seen a blitz of Blu Ray promotion lately from all fronts. HD DVD could sure learn a few things from their marketing group, or needs to REALLY rethink their marketing budget.

What do you think would be the most effective ways to use promotional dollars to increase your customer base?


****This is a format neutral thread, and will be conducted as such. If you want to wave your format POM POMS, go to the respective Hardware/Software forum and do so.****

A bunch of movies you want to buy on a shelf at the store.

Do Something!

Fud.

Now seriously... :cool:
You want the answer to stay within the universe you designed. Fine.

What do I think are the most effective methods?

1 - Internet advertising
2 - Television advertising
2 - Commercial placement in Televison and Movies
1 - Dedicated displays in stores
2 - Dedicated sales reps in stores
1 - Exclusive contracts with retailers

(1 being crucial, 2 being important)

Other suggestions?

What do you think the advertising should focus on?

Features
Price
Compatability
Interactivity
BUY A COMBO DISC OF A NEW RELEASE, DUMMY! YOU CAN PLAY IT EVERYWHERE!!!


We have seen a blitz of Blu Ray promotion lately from all fronts. HD DVD could sure learn a few things from their marketing group, or needs to REALLY rethink their marketing budget.


I fully agree.
If HD DVD loses the format war it will be because of this.


What do you think would be the most effective ways to use promotional dollars to increase your customer base?


Finding the right customer who will do the most of it and give him a free player.
Buy #titles and get a free player (instead of buy the player and get #titles)
Free combo discs.

2 tier pricing:

$29.98 - New Movies

$24.98 - Catalog movies

We have seen a blitz of Blu Ray promotion lately from all fronts. HD DVD could sure learn a few things from their marketing group, or needs to REALLY rethink their marketing budget.

I disagree. Why blow you budget now, when it would be better spent come the holiday season? Consumer spending will be greater, a greater range of players will be available, and one could realy hammer home an advantage (price, experience).

Sony knows if HD-DVD makes a big splash this xmas their chances of becomming the only format are next to nothing, hence i'd expect them to be doing everything possible before this date to sqash HD-DVD. And what you're seeing today is Sony attempting to do exactly that via their old tricks.

As member of a marketing department for an electronics company I would say:

Dedicated displays in stores
Television advertising
Movie Theatre Trailers

Is where I'd focus ones energy on consumer marketing, possibly adding print advertising to the list - but i'd be looking at major magazines not just niche Videophile mags.

What do you think the advertising should focus on?

One thing and one thing only, the total experience.

The most effective strategy is to only have a single industry-wide format and allow the customer to decide between basically compatible units.

Once the decision to have a format war is made, all marketing takes a back seat to the format war and is completely hampered by it.

Efforts to market either format to a much broader audience are doomed until the format war is shut down. Retailers have figured this out--they are on the front-lines of dealing with the customers--and are in the process of selecting a format right now.

2 tier pricing:

$29.98 - New Movies

$24.98 - Catalog movies

That seems high to me. Ive been paying 24.99 or less for new releases and 19.99 for catalgos at all of my local walmarts.

Seems Sony's viral marketing is doing pretty good. esp. on this website, as well as a few others. Paying a few bucks to the B&Ms to push your merchandise seems pretty effective as well and then the fanboys can report it on these websites endlessly, plus they can throw in a few other misc. stories about how, blah, blah. blah, blu-ray, blah, blah, etc.
I guess we will see how effective this strategy is in the long run.

Seems Sony's viral marketing is doing pretty good. esp. on this website, as well as a few others.

Let's keep this fair, no blows below the belt.

While there is no proof of this happening on either side, sometimes things do raise an eyebrow.

I am a firm believer that we will end up with a stalemate eventually, simular to the DVD+/-R situation, effectively nullified by dual format players.

While I agree that saving the big bucks for promotion until the holiday season holds merit, what point is there in doing this if almost every potential customer has it in their head already that the format is dead, true or not...

HD DVD better fire their current promotion team/house because they aren't doing a great job. Hell, I don't see them doing their job at all...

Seems Sony's viral marketing is doing pretty good. esp. on this website, as well as a few others. Paying a few bucks to the B&Ms to push your merchandise seems pretty effective as well and then the fanboys can report it on these websites endlessly, plus they can throw in a few other misc. stories about how, blah, blah. blah, blu-ray, blah, blah, etc.
I guess we will see how effective this strategy is in the long run.

imo they also tapped into the existing game format war. the ps3 fans are used to posting and reading bs all day. a convenient army of drones that will believe anything they are fed and then spread around and even amplify it. for example, a store putting up a bd display becomes all stores on the planet are going blu exclusive. they have a lot of fun just derailing any serious discussion because it is fun to succeed in pissing somebody off on a forum. if you can make things bad enough so the opposing view gives up in disgust, you win. viral marketers are learning from and using the fanboys tactics and feeding them the bs.

I'm suspicious of viral slandering on these forum, and in this very thread.

I think what Microsoft is doing with XBLM and the Heroes promotion is brilliant. You can bet millions of people are going to download the free pilot episode, maybe leading to HD-DVD drive sales. They are directly targeting the demographic that they can verify have HDTVs and likely the disposable income to purchase a HD player. These are also known early adopter types, more responsive to new technology. This should be the focus right now, the 30% of the people with HD sets, not the general public that doesn't have have HD equipment yet. The general public is still clueless, making them think they *need* a $500 player to get the most out of a HDTV will likely scare them away from HD in general. Most people aren't ready to upgrade all their equipment. So marketing to the masses at this point could actually be slowing general HDTV sales in a way (making it more confusing, appear more expensive, etc.). Just a theory of mine, don't read into it too much.

The sure way that HD DVD would surpass Blu-ray is if every HD DVD released was a combo disk for the SAME PRICE as a standard DVD today, and the studios supporting HD DVD only released combos INSTEAD OF standard DVDs. The general public would have to buy the disks and think of it as getting the HD version as a bonus. Stores such as Blockbuster would have no choice but to stock HD DVD. It seems that even some HD DVD supporters don't like the combo disks, but combos would sure give HD DVD the advantage if they totally replaced standard DVDs. I watched The 300 and Hot Fuzz last night--both combos. Can you imagine how huge the numbers would be for these titles if only the HD DVD combos were available for the general public? My guess is that we may be headed in that direction, but right now there aren't enough replication facilities to turn out the millions of copies that would be needed.

The best strategy is to release some of the most hyped movies exclusively on HD DVD/DVD combos.

Think about the millions of DVDs sold every day, and imagine if each one of them would feature with an HD DVD side as an extra. After a while, people will be pushed to buy an HD DVD player just to see the quality of the other side of the discs. The format war will be over in an instant. A seamless transition from SD to HD.

I agree, give people a high-definition version on the back side of the standard-definition DVDs that they are already buying. People would be more willing to buy a new player to take advantage of "enhanced" discs they already own, than to have to buy both a new player and new discs. But I doubt the studios would go for that.

The best strategy is to release some of the most hyped movies exclusively on HD DVD/DVD combos.

The format war will be over in an instant.
That's kind of a reach don't you think? Especially when you consider the only exclusive studio available is Universal, the only CE company making HDDVD players is Toshiba and retailer support is decreasing almost daily. Do you really think that the BD leviathan is going to roll over and capitulate over a few movie flippers?

It's going to take MUCH MUCH MORE than that to win this war.

HDDVD is going to require studio and CE defections if it hopes to have ANY chance in pulling off a win. With Toshiba's current pricing and "Field of Dreams" strategy of flooding the market with players in hopes that studios/CE companies will come out of the cornfield has several flaws. 1) with little profit margin there is very little incentive for retailers to sell their product 2) there is very little incentive for CE companies to build a HDDVD player and 3) most within the movie and CE industry do not want conflicting formats. It's expensive, a waste of resources, and ultimately only confuses the public.

The HDDVD group is also going to have to figure out a way to stop the hemorrhaging that is going on with retailers. Sticking one's head in the sand and saying on internet forums, "meh, xxxx store doesn't have much of a selection anyway" is not going to change the perception in the media, with retailers, and finally with the public that Blu-ray is slowly winning this thing. It would not surprise me that years from now analysts will conclude that the first major blow that led to HDDVDs downfall was the Blockbuster announcement.

Love'em or hate'em, the BDA has played this format war masterfully. Format specs aside, the BDA was able to successfully wrangle most of the studios, CE industry, and slowly they are getting more retailers to side with them. Even with Universal and Microsoft's backing, how long can Toshiba fight this thing alone? Cheap prices are nice, but it's not the only factor that is going to win this thing.

Television advertising and available movie titles are what will be the most successful at getting the word out about high def discs.

Television advertising and available movie titles are what will be the most successful at getting the word out about high def discs.

I think so to, I saw an advertisement for 300 and it said "Available on DVD and High Definition" and it showed the cases for all three versions.

New Universal releases say "Available soon on DVD and HD DVD" in big letters

Sony and Disney say "Coming soon on DVD and Blu-Ray disc" but they show pictures of both the DVD and Blu-Ray versions.

The HDDVD group is also going to have to figure out a way to stop the hemorrhaging that is going on with retailers. Sticking one's head in the sand and saying on internet forums, "meh, xxxx store doesn't have much of a selection anyway" is not going to change the perception in the media, with retailers, and finally with the public that Blu-ray is slowly winning this thing. It would not surprise me that years from now analysts will conclude that the first major blow that led to HDDVDs downfall was the Blockbuster announcement.

Love'em or hate'em, the BDA has played this format war masterfully. Format specs aside, the BDA was able to successfully wrangle most of the studios, CE industry, and slowly they are getting more retailers to side with them. Even with Universal and Microsoft's backing, how long can Toshiba fight this thing alone? Cheap prices are nice, but it's not the only factor that is going to win this thing.

What you describe is mostly about the power Sony. Sony is uniquely positioned as a company across multiple industries all related in some way to optical formats. The net result is ability to market in industries that no single company can match. How many companies could place a trojan horse player in the market using the #1 brand name in game consoles other than Sony? Even MS and Nintendo don't have the business incentives to do such a thing with any hope of returning the profits.

How many companies have more influence across retail electronics? Sony ensured few that do were aligned to BD before the war began. The negative BDA reaction to Korean companies Samsung and LG going neutral shoud give some indication how important the retail CE grasp is considered.

Which company also owns a major percentage of Hollywoood to use in promotions marketing as well as exclusive content? Who else can both make the players themselves as well as replicate the media themselves to control the pricing that appears to consumers at retail and ease the transition costs for Hollywood?

Once the PS3 which only Sony had to use, was committed as a trojan horse most of the rest of the industry was compelled to fall in line. To say that hd dvd group should just "stop the hemorrhaging" is to miss the realities of what can feasibly be done by other companies short of throwing away millions of $$$ that they may never recoup.


HDDVD is going to require studio and CE defections if it hopes to have ANY chance in pulling off a win. With Toshiba's current pricing and "Field of Dreams" strategy of flooding the market with players in hopes that studios/CE companies will come out of the cornfield has several flaws.
1) with little profit margin there is very little incentive for retailers to sell their product
2) there is very little incentive for CE companies to build a HDDVD player and
3) most within the movie and CE industry do not want conflicting formats. It's expensive, a waste of resources, and ultimately only confuses the public.


There is no alternative answer to the PS3 trojan horse strategy, which is essentially a very low cost Blu-ray player when you substract the value of the video game player, media machine.

Toshiba has to sell millions of players before studios would consider 'defecting'. They've already made the very daring move of commiting their laptop business to aid in the hd dvd cause so I'd say they understand very well what has to be accompilished before that can expect any studio movement.

That's kind of a reach don't you think? Especially when you consider the only exclusive studio available is Universal, the only CE company making HDDVD players is Toshiba and retailer support is decreasing almost daily. Do you really think that the BD leviathan is going to roll over and capitulate over a few movie flippers?

It's going to take MUCH MUCH MORE than that to win this war.

Not so much 'a few movie flippers' but DVD software compatibility is still mostly likely the single most potent potential advantage for the hd dvd format. More than just one release, it would probably require Neutral studios to commit to adding hd dvd as a feature to many of their new DVD releases.

The issue is whether or not it ever makes business sense to those studios to do such a thing but the potential effect cannot be underestimated. Keep in mind that DVD and it's huge popularity is the real detriment to both of these formats and the use of combos essentially turns DVD from an enemy into a friend.

What you describe is mostly about the power Sony. Sony is uniquely positioned as a company across multiple industries all related in some way to optical formats. The net result is ability to market in industries that no single company can match. How many companies could place a trojan horse player in the market using the #1 brand name in game consoles other than Sony? Even MS and Nintendo don't have the business incentives to do such a thing with any hope of returning the profits.

How many companies have more influence across retail electronics? Sony ensured few that do were aligned to BD before the war began. The negative BDA reaction to Korean companies Samsung and LG going neutral shoud give some indication how important the retail CE grasp is considered.

Which company also owns a major percentage of Hollywoood to use in promotions marketing as well as exclusive content? Who else can both make the players themselves as well as replicate the media themselves to control the pricing that appears to consumers at retail and ease the transition costs for Hollywood?

Once the PS3 which only Sony had to use, was committed as a trojan horse most of the rest of the industry was compelled to fall in line. To say that hd dvd group should just "stop the hemorrhaging" is to miss the realities of what can feasibly be done by other companies short of throwing away millions of $$$ that they may never recoup.



There is no alternative answer to the PS3 trojan horse strategy, which is essentially a very low cost Blu-ray player when you substract the value of the video game player, media machine.

Toshiba has to sell millions of players before studios would consider 'defecting'. They've already made the very daring move of commiting their laptop business to aid in the hd dvd cause so I'd say they understand very well what has to be accompilished before that can expect any studio movement.



Not so much 'a few movie flippers' but DVD software compatibility is still mostly likely the single most potent potential advantage for the hd dvd format. More than just one release, it would probably require Neutral studios to commit to adding hd dvd as a feature to many of their new DVD releases.

The issue is whether or not it ever makes business sense to those studios to do such a thing but the potential effect cannot be underestimated. Keep in mind that DVD and it's huge popularity is the real detriment to both of these formats and the use of combos essentially turns DVD from an enemy into a friend.

mostly agree with this.

a couple of things....

i don't understand why disney/fox are in bed with sony. they must see that long term they are giving a huge advantage to sony in the studio business. they have to compete with sony and it seems like they will loose long term over short term benefits.

i think bd has a problem with dvd but hd dvd doesn't. anything that slows down bd right now allows the ps3 launch bump to fade into history. hd dvd can leverage the dvd production and combo/twin discs can transition to hd dvd when the time is right. imo hd dvd can eventually replace dvd as an evolution. you can't play bd discs in dvd players.

I personally think Sony's PS3 strategy was very smart. Attach Blu to a game platform when gamers are already used to paying a good deal more for a console than J6P will pay for a DVD player. Then get market penetration through your game console(Toshiba is now trying this with its' laptops). Now Sony's issue is PS3 is not catching on very well as a game platform.

As for the marketing question I'd say Sony's continual flow of press releases on market exclusives is getting them tons of free marketing and making J6P think Blu.

i don't understand why disney/fox are in bed with sony. they must see that long term they are giving a huge advantage to sony in the studio business. they have to compete with sony and it seems like they will loose long term over short term benefits.


This is one thing that has confused me since following this war in the beginning of 2007. Why is Disney/FOX in the bed with Sony?? When it looked like blu ray was going to suffer defeat, they still stayed committed... Does anyone have any inside info?

I personally think Sony's PS3 strategy was very smart. Attach Blu to a game platform when gamers are already used to paying a good deal more for a console than J6P will pay for a DVD player. Then get market penetration through your game console(Toshiba is now trying this with its' laptops). Now Sony's issue is PS3 is not catching on very well as a game platform.

As for the marketing question I'd say Sony's continual flow of press releases on market exclusives is getting them tons of free marketing and making J6P think Blu.

But PS3 has sold enough that even with the lousy attach rate, BD has the advantage. Even if the attach rate is 20%, they only have to sell 5 PS3s to equal one HD DVD player sold. Which is a no brainer given how many more game systems are sold than standalones at this stage. As standalone players drop (for both formats) and PS3 sales level off, the balance may shift somewhat, with periodic surges as the PS3 price fluctuates.

Of course, the winning strategy has seemed to be "announce Blu-Ray has won and HD DVD is dead over and over and over and over and over and over."

mostly agree with this.

a couple of things....

i don't understand why disney/fox are in bed with sony. they must see that long term they are giving a huge advantage to sony in the studio business. they have to compete with sony and it seems like they will loose long term over short term benefits.


Disney/Fox/Sony all have a common enemy: Movie Piracy. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend". In addition Sony is putting up by far the most $risk to launch blu-ray so the entire industry can mostly just hop on their back and ride.

Now could this later come back to bite them when a competitor has control of by far the #1 player in the BD market thru the PS3 on top of the standalones? Could this afford Sony some marketing advantages over a network like PSN for instance? Will other studios enjoy paying IP costs later to a rival studio? Does it ultimately help make Sony the #1 movie studio in the world? I'll get some popcorn to watch for that one. :)

i think bd has a problem with dvd but hd dvd doesn't. anything that slows down bd right now allows the ps3 launch bump to fade into history. hd dvd can leverage the dvd production and combo/twin discs can transition to hd dvd when the time is right. imo hd dvd can eventually replace dvd as an evolution. you can't play bd discs in dvd players.

Blu-ray has advantages but then hd dvd brings a few things to the mass market that BD doesn't which is why it's unfortunate to me to see many early adopters become cheerleaders for the early death of free market competition. :cool: I guess it's the addiction to lossless audio and highest bitrate crack.... ;)


I personally think Sony's PS3 strategy was very smart. Attach Blu to a game platform when gamers are already used to paying a good deal more for a console than J6P will pay for a DVD player. Then get market penetration through your game console(Toshiba is now trying this with its' laptops). Now Sony's issue is PS3 is not catching on very well as a game platform.

It's a bold move that hasn't been all good for Sony, evidenced by the 'resignation' of Playstation executives, but in the long run it could still pay off big esp. if PS3 recovers it's place in the console market while BD takes control of the high def optical market.

Think of the PS3 as a 1st stage booster. As a new game machine it will naturally initially have a high number of sales. As an player it will be far outnumbered by standalones if HDM becomes popular.

HD-DVD is more like a plane launched space ship - slower start, less expensive, but just as likely to reach orbit.

BDA bet the PS3 would annilate HD-DVD before it left the plane, but the PS3 launch has sputtered a bit, and the lower cost player is more attractive to "investors" than they thought.

Hd-DVD is on track, and announcements of its death are premature and fud. :p

Think of the PS3 as a 1st stage booster. As a new game machine it will naturally initially have a high number of sales. As an player it will be far outnumbered by standalones if HDM becomes popular.

HD-DVD is more like a plane launched space ship - slower start, less expensive, but just as likely to reach orbit.

BDA bet the PS3 would annilate HD-DVD before it left the plane, but the PS3 launch has sputtered a bit, and the lower cost player is more attractive to "investors" than they thought.

Hd-DVD is on track, and announcements of its death are premature and fud. :p


well. that is the way i see it.

toshiba had a long time to come up with a plan to deal with the ps3 launch. imo nothing going on now was unexpected except a lot of people thought it would be over and done after the ps3 launch. but the ps3 didn't do the job.

Disney/Fox/Sony all have a common enemy: Movie Piracy. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend". In addition Sony is putting up by far the most $risk to launch blu-ray so the entire industry can mostly just hop on their back and ride.
...



the hd dvd supporting studios backed hd dvd in spite of piracy.

so why are fox/disney different? imo they should be looking at the power they are handing to sony in the long haul.

imo while they are worried and looking at the front door, sony is creeping up from behind. what good is it to make a small gain against piracy and loose the farm to sony in the long run?

my basic point is why are fox/disney so eager to hand the future to sony while other studios are not?

I hate to say it, but it is shock-and-awe, a concept patented by Sony.

HD DVD and blu-ray are too complicated for most people (including journalists) to understand, so people only understand simple statements, e.g. "HD DVD is dead" etc. Nobody cares about Ritek's 10 layer HD DVDs or Managed Copy, because it's too complicated and less shocking. People only fathom shocking news and they don't care about the follow up.

The only way for people to remember that Sony's Peter Dille claims that HD DVD will be dead soon, is if he and Bill Gates would bet a million dollars over HD DVD's death. This way the media would be interested in following up the shocking claim made by Sony, otherwise nobody is going to care.

That's kind of a reach don't you think? Especially when you consider the only exclusive studio available is Universal, the only CE company making HDDVD players is Toshiba and retailer support is decreasing almost daily. Do you really think that the BD leviathan is going to roll over and capitulate over a few movie flippers?

It's going to take MUCH MUCH MORE than that to win this war.

HDDVD is going to require studio and CE defections if it hopes to have ANY chance in pulling off a win. With Toshiba's current pricing and "Field of Dreams" strategy of flooding the market with players in hopes that studios/CE companies will come out of the cornfield has several flaws. 1) with little profit margin there is very little incentive for retailers to sell their product 2) there is very little incentive for CE companies to build a HDDVD player and 3) most within the movie and CE industry do not want conflicting formats. It's expensive, a waste of resources, and ultimately only confuses the public.

The HDDVD group is also going to have to figure out a way to stop the hemorrhaging that is going on with retailers. Sticking one's head in the sand and saying on internet forums, "meh, xxxx store doesn't have much of a selection anyway" is not going to change the perception in the media, with retailers, and finally with the public that Blu-ray is slowly winning this thing. It would not surprise me that years from now analysts will conclude that the first major blow that led to HDDVDs downfall was the Blockbuster announcement.

Love'em or hate'em, the BDA has played this format war masterfully. Format specs aside, the BDA was able to successfully wrangle most of the studios, CE industry, and slowly they are getting more retailers to side with them. Even with Universal and Microsoft's backing, how long can Toshiba fight this thing alone? Cheap prices are nice, but it's not the only factor that is going to win this thing.

If there's a panacea for HD DVD it's the HD DVD combo with no DVD release at a close to DVD price. Here's why:

1) It puts HD DVD every place that DVD is and that's a lot of places. Blockbuster and all other rental outlets and all DVD retail stores will rent or sell them and so will your local stores. Just imagine walking down tro your local corner store and renting a HD DVD combo - talk about accessible. Now everyone who rents or buys this particular type of "DVD" (and that's millions of consumers) now knows about HD DVD and suddenly you have amazing exposure and really no extra cost;

2) It fills the landscape with millions of potential land mines. The PS3 is a land mine since many owners who don't have a HDTV will used the PS3 as a BD player when they buy a HDTV, since they already own the PS3. The same goes for the combo only! Millions will buy it for the DVD and everyone who does becomes a potential HD DVD player purchaser - this fills the geography of the market place with potentially tens of millions of land mines just ready to go off when HD DVD player prices hit the right price point for a particular HD DVD combo owner. How many DVDs would the new Bourne movie sell? Eight to ten million? Probably, especially if consumers thought they were getting a bonus for little extra money, even though they couldn't watch the HD DVD side immediately. Just the thought that they're getting something extra is enough to rationalize the purchase - just give them a nudge and they'll go for it. If one big title sells 7,000,000 titles and only 2% of purchasers decide to buy an HD DVD player that's 140,000 more players sold. Now release another big title as a HD DVD combo only and see how many players that one sells. It's called momentum and it tends to snowball. Selling more players helps Toshiba, but how does it help the studios? More players equals more (some at least) demand for HD DVDs which equals morew potential profit;

3. It skews the sales ratio dramatically. One big release on an HD DVD combo only suddenly puts HD DVD ahead 20:1 in disk slaes. This provides HD DVD with all kinds of spin and FUD and puts BD on the defensive. Suddenly BD is trying to explain why the numbers are what they are while people's eyes glaze over. It's all about perception and perception matters big time so this puts "perception" in HD DVD's corner and if anything is going to attract more HD DVD support (studio and otherwise) this is what's going to do it; and

4. It saves storage and shelf space. This is something retailers will love and they'll embrace it. Just put the HD DVD combo out in a DVD case with a red stripe with the HD DVD logo and a silver stripe with DVD. Colour the HD DVD side with a red protective coating which tells the consumer that this is the HD DVD side and make it protective for multiple use such as rental outlest (kills two birds with one stone). Now put a blurp on the DVD side explaining and promoting HD DVD - icing on the cake. BD now looks like a pain in the ass since the vendor needs extra space to store and show BD and this costs extra money. This will bias retailers in favour of HD DVD.

The HD DVD only combo at a close to DVD price is HD DVD's number one WMD. It uses the huge pluses of DVD to slide HD DVD in - it makes the transition easy and affordable which is all anyone can ask for. If I were in the BD organization, the HD DVD combo only would be the one thing that HD DVD could do that would keep me awake at night. This simply turns all the potential of DVD in favour of HD DVD and against BD. DVD is a formidable ally and HD DVD needs to bring it on side and the sooner the better for it.

Will it happen? I sure don't know, but it's sitting there like a time bomb and if someone in a position to make things happen within the HD DVD group decides to unlease it, well, then - look out!

Cheers,

Grant

the hd dvd supporting studios backed hd dvd in spite of piracy.

so why are fox/disney different? imo they should be looking at the power they are handing to sony in the long haul.

imo while they are worried and looking at the front door, sony is creeping up from behind. what good is it to make a small gain against piracy and loose the farm to sony in the long run?

my basic point is why are fox/disney so eager to hand the future to sony while other studios are not?

Different studios have different views, just like different people. Some may rank piracy as a higher issue than others and may believe they can severely reduce it via blu-ray.

After Sony absolutey committed every PS3 to blu-ray the 'other studios' Warner and Paramount capitulated and went from hd dvd exclusive to neutral. The only holdout really is Universal (and Wienstien to a lesser degree) and the reason's there are anyone's to speculate.

The sure way that HD DVD would surpass Blu-ray is if every HD DVD released was a combo disk for the SAME PRICE as a standard DVD today, and the studios supporting HD DVD only released combos INSTEAD OF standard DVDs. The general public would have to buy the disks and think of it as getting the HD version as a bonus. Stores such as Blockbuster would have no choice but to stock HD DVD. It seems that even some HD DVD supporters don't like the combo disks, but combos would sure give HD DVD the advantage if they totally replaced standard DVDs. I watched The 300 and Hot Fuzz last night--both combos. Can you imagine how huge the numbers would be for these titles if only the HD DVD combos were available for the general public? My guess is that we may be headed in that direction, but right now there aren't enough replication facilities to turn out the millions of copies that would be needed.This is the only way to get the average consumer engaged. He will not pay more for a HD only disk and he certianly will not pay more for a combo disk with a price premium. It's only the early adopters that will pay whatever the studios ask.

This is the only way to get the average consumer engaged. He will not pay more for a HD only disk and he certianly will not pay more for a combo disk with a price premium. It's only the early adopters that will pay whatever the studios ask.

I agree. I do not get the argument that HDM are supposed to make more money for studios to make up for the low profits on SD movies. Who sets the price for SD movies? Did any of you somehow force the studios to price them low? Aren't DVD sales how studios still make money on box office bombs? For box office hits they are double dipping with at the theater and then the disc to the same customer. I'll be using Netflix for most HDMs until the prices come down.

I see Toshiba winning on finished product and player price. Sony is winning on "hearts and minds." You have to win hearts and minds.

I agree. I do not get the argument that HDM are supposed to make more money for studios to make up for the low profits on SD movies. Who sets the price for SD movies? Did any of you somehow force the studios to price them low? Aren't DVD sales how studios still make money on box office bombs? For box office hits they are double dipping with at the theater and then the disc to the same customer. I'll be using Netflix for most HDMs until the prices come down.

I see Toshiba winning on finished product and player price. Sony is winning on "hearts and minds." You have to win hearts and minds.
Saying that high def media is being supported by studios as a solution to flagging DVD sales isn't really the right way to phrase the situation IMO.

What the studios are doing is exploring new revenue streams, and more so than most, they're aware that you have to invest money to get a potential payback. On the face of it, high definition discs of both types are a losing proposition for every studio; I'm sure that all the studios are bleeding red ink on their HD sales because the volumes are so low. Even so, it's the prospect of future demand that drives the studios.

This is really what Disney and Fox (and to a lesser extent, Lionsgate) are all about with respect to Blu-ray. They see a product that is potentially more resilient to casual piracy, which makes it a better bet as a future source of revenue. Optional region coding also means that their theatrical release logistics are simplified, and is a tiny bit of icing for the studios when it comes to trying to juggle things like multiple translations or late distribution. This helps them protect their theatrical box office revenue, which to be honest needs all the help it can get these days, particularly since so many of us can now experience at home an equal or even better presentation on high definition disc than we can at most of our local cineplexes.

I appreciate the constructive comments from all in this thread.

I firmly believe the '300' movie launch was one of the biggest sales weeks for HT equipment including HD DVD and Blu Ray players this summer.

The fact that flyers for EVERY major retailer in Canada has HD DVD players MIA, shows how non existant HD DVD marketing is right now.

They had better wake up and turn things around.

The main issue I have noticed in local retail stores, is the player is sometimes front and center with a big HD display, but information on the player is INVISABLE. The player should have HUGE signage, bold details of the features (IME, PIP, PRICE) and a selection of top movies.

The Sams Club displays were a good start, why are these not in every store?

I think some dollars should go to employing a troop of quality police, who go around to retailers and ensure that demos are setup correctly and look good.
Last weekend I saw a local Aussie retailer showing off both HD-DVD (on a big high-end Tosh screen) and BD on a Sammy player on similar high end screen. Both looked like ass (the backgrounds of both were a mess of moving grain, and neither had any pop or clarity.)
I much prefer the PQ from my 3 year old 720p front projector and upscaled DVD via my HTPC to these demos.

Whether its the method of connection, calibration, disk or whatever, these kind of demos do more harm than good. (off topic: how they can ask A$700 for the A20 I do not knowseeing as you could import one for probably under $300.)

I appreciate the constructive comments from all in this thread.

I firmly believe the '300' movie launch was one of the biggest sales weeks for HT equipment including HD DVD and Blu Ray players this summer.

The fact that flyers for EVERY major retailer in Canada has HD DVD players MIA, shows how non existant HD DVD marketing is right now.

They had better wake up and turn things around.

The main issue I have noticed in local retail stores, is the player is sometimes front and center with a big HD display, but information on the player is INVISABLE. The player should have HUGE signage, bold details of the features (IME, PIP, PRICE) and a selection of top movies.

The Sams Club displays were a good start, why are these not in every store?

I agree. It may stem from the fact that HD-DVD seems to be playing to tie vs. to win. They seem to miss every opportunity to put the screws to Blu-Ray.

Why go MIA on the release week of 300. It does not make sense. There should have been a huge promo

They should do a buy one get one free (up to 5 free disks) instead of the 5 free giveaway.

MS must reduce the add on further in the $99 to $149 range

Do a better job explaining to the average consumer that this will still play all their old Dvds and even upscale them

Noted in Best Buy yesterday they have both Blu Ray and HD DVD $19.99 sections. The Blu Ray section was a bit more visable, but about equal in terms of size and selection.

Good example of neutrality...

PRICE! PRICE! PRICE!-----QUALITY! QUALITY! QUALITY!----This is what got me off the fence and I consider myself an average consumer. For Toshiba to sell players at this price ($200+) they can't match the Blu-Ray media blitz....is that why BR player are priced at $500+? Consumers are not altogether stupid and recognize a good deal when they see it and the HD-A2 is a damn good deal---to good maybe because of its outstanding upconverting capabilities, I'm not in a rush to replace my current collection of over 800 standard DVDs. But, I think that as long as HD software remains so expensive (20+) it will be a nitch product much like laser disc players were several years ago. I bought into laser disc media when the player sold for $350. But I only bought 6 titles over 6+ years because the titles were selling for over $30. I bought into DVDs when the players came down to $200 and bought DVDs by the handfull because they were reasonably priced from the get-go. It seems to me that HD as an industry needs to lower their software prices signicantly to reach the majority of consumers---doesn't anyone learn from history anymore?

---doesn't anyone learn from history anymore?

Obviously humanity is trapped in the Twlight Zone - condemned to rehash all previous mistakes. The good news is that we're getting better at it - we don't just screw up like last time, but tend to screw up even bigger the next chance we get! :D

Cheers,

Grant

Making all HD DVD’s combo disks would not work.

It would cost a lot of extra money, to what benefit from the studios perspective?
99% of people will not appreciate having to pay more for something they don’t want and will never use. Higher prices will affect sales volumes, DVD is ‘the’ studio cash cow, why should a studio risk that profit?

It would be worse for retailers, not better unless all HD and neutral studios got on board with the combo disks, which won’t happen. So, instead of a small HD section, and a large DVD section… you know have, a small HD section split in 2 for BRD and HD DVD exclusives, for studios not supporting combo disks a large DVD section, and, a large DVD combo section. Why? Most, non early adopting HD DVD owners don’t know or care what studio makes which movies and will be confused if they are not packaged or displayed differently.

It also would not help the relative number of disk sales in the format wars as the combo disks could not be counted as HD sales; they would have to be counted separately.

What would I do if I was the HD DVD promotional group? Put a rebate coupon in the standard DVD for a credit exchange on the HD version. Studios get the original movie back which they can re-sell; customer pays an extra premium for the HD version. HD group encourages conversion to HD, and the new sale counts as a HD sale. HD group would have to subsidize the program somewhat but it’s a win, win for the HD promotion and the consumer.

[QUOTE=blainehamilton]I'm just curious and want to get a few opinions on how organizations should be using their precious marketing dollars for promoting their new HD format.

What do you think are the most effective methods?
QUOTE]

The most effective methods are pretty much everything the blu-ray group is doing.

Buy off tons of prominent display space at the top 10 major retailers - along with huge anmounts of purchased editorial (yes, the editorial types here will recognize that that is an oxymoron), as well as a flood of new releases.

Stock levels of the movies must be kept very high, so that stock exists at even the retailers in less-than-major DMA's for local purchases with/after equipment purchases.

Lot's of holiday-related titles should be dusted off and produced with pristine quality, and a raft of releases should be promoted for early January arrival also, for movies that just came out before the holidays - to encourage purchases of the equipment before Christmas.

A massive assault of inexpensive players, including brandnames (a slight premium is ok) should be rolled out to key retailers.

POS material should be a key focus, and should focus on glowing reviews and articles about the proven viability of the format.

As for promoting sales of software already available, and new releases, this is very key and should... I can go on... :)

Here's what I'd do if I wanted to push HDM over DVD.

1) Release HDM 1 or 2 weeks before the DVD release, it makes HDM seem exclusive.

2) Bundle all HDTVs (and projectors) with a HDM player this Xmas

3) Bundles with audio systems.

3) Make it clear to the public that HDM is the only way to get the best performance out of your HDTV

4) Push the fact that you can have a better than Cinema experience at home (can't see this one happening though, too many conflicts of interest)

5) More celebrity power is needed, someone like Mel Gibson, Clint Eastwood or Steven Spielberg would be perfect spokesman

Here's what I'd do if I wanted to push HDM over DVD.


2) Bundle all HDTVs (and projectors) with a HDM player this Xmas



Looks like Toshiba may be testing this as tomorrow's CircuitCity ad has an A2 bundled with a 42" Regza LCD for $xxxx.

Edit- I deleted the bundle deal price as I believe prices are against AVS policy.