At HDGURU.com learn how the "no name" HDTV flat panel vendors charge consumers for in warranty repairs and which ones won't fix your set as soon as the one year warranty expires. It also list a very well know brand that can cost you over $1000 for any out of warranty repair.

The HD Guru exposes these undisclosed charges if your set breaks at www.hdguru.com

The HD Guru

What is the failure rate for PDP or LCD? If memory serves its <2%. I don't think the sky is falling just yet.

And as always you get what you pay for.

Also keep in mind that if you buy a Vizio from Costco and/or with most credit cards, warranty is extended to 2 years. I don't know whether this involves sending the tv to vizio or simply bringing it back to Costco though.

"What is the failure rate for PDP or LCD? If memory serves its <2%. "


Data is limited, however Consumer Reports claims its survey rate of repair average is 3% (up to year 2) for LCD and Plasma 2005 and 2006 models

According to the survey plasma brands with "promising reliability" (whatever that means) are Fujitsu, Hitachi, Panasonic, Pioneer, Sonyand Toshiba and the ones with " repairs more than average are Philips and Vizio

The LCD with "promising reliability " are JVC, Magnavox, Panasonic, Philips, Samsung, Sanyo, Sharp, Sony and Toshiba

Dell is the only more than average brand listed.

LCD sales of large screen sets did not take off till 2nd half of 2006, it is probably a little too early to get accurate percentages for the new big screen LCD brands.

HD Guru

Darn off by 1% guess my memory failed me LOL

I don't know about PDP but really most LCDs are a panel, 2 back-lights, power supply and processor board. If after a year you are happy with the panel (no clouding or such) I can't believe much is going to go wrong.

I have had lcd monitors for years, one is inside my truck (extreme heat and cold) and so far have yet to have one fail. Are they the same as an LCD TV pretty close, most have 1 back light instead of 2, limited or no (in the case of my laptops) VP.

Can it happen? yes
Have I been just plain lucky? maybe
Are HDTVs disposable? no
Is the sky falling? not yet

LCD TVs can have 12-20 or more CCFL (lamps) depending on the size of the screen. They also have input board, , tuner circuity as well as power supply and signal processor and more. Lots can and do go wrong besides clouding, for example many reports of vertical or horizontal banding.

There are a lot more LCD flat panel vendors today than 1-2 years ago and the downward pricing pressure drives these set makers to use cheaper parts. Companies without exhaustive QC checks and rechecks may have reliability issues.

The article (at www.hdguru.com) reveals tier 2 and tier 3 vendors policies that tend to cost the consumer money for in-warranty repairs and may not provide any support just one year after purchase. Hence the term disposable since any out of warranty repair may be impossible or within a few dollars of the price of a new set.

The HD Guru

LCD TVs can have 12-20 or more CCFL (lamps) depending on the size of the screen. They also have input board, , tuner circuity as well as power supply and signal processor and more. Lots can and do go wrong besides clouding, for example many reports of vertical or horizontal banding.



Banding, clouding, flash-lighting are all examples of uneven back-light and that would show up within the fist year (really the fist day)

Just to be clear the back-light is in banks on the sides or top/bottom of the panel and like I said most TVs have 2, many monitors have 1 (although nicer ones have 2) you can't replace one bulb but the whole bank so I as well as many others consider it one light but thanks for the clarification.

2 of my monitors (cheap ones at that) have input boards oh wait ALL have input boards with the exception of the laptops. Inputs are not as many 1DVI, 1 VGA, 1 composite but it still has to switch between them and they have never let me down.

Although none have tuners ALL (again except the laptops) have VPs to process the incoming image.

I am not sure what you point is?

Some manufactures have crappy warranties and bad customer service? I don't think this is in any way limited to HDTVs but thanks for the heads up.

As with all purchases buyer-be-ware and you get what you pay for.

The Disposable HDTV article has just been updated to include information on Olevia LCDs.

Its at www.hdguru.com

The HD Guru™

I was considering taking my polaroid 46" back to walmart and getting a better brand somewhere else. I think this info will help me decide.

Thanks

Brian

The Disposable HDTV article has just been updated to include information on Olevia LCDs.

Its at www.hdguru.com

The HD Guru™
Thanks Gary!

I think many, if not most people on these forums research the heck out of their potential purchases, but still, it's good to have this information.

Based on Gary's article I can now officially tell my friends and family, whom can't swallow paying for the quality names brands, that it's 100% worth it just for warranty purposes. I mean, sure, the TV might be $800 less than a Panasonic or Samsung, but after BB or CC's extended warranty (which is NECESSARY to purchase if you buy one of the mentioned brands in the article, IMO) the gap significantly closes. Or, if you didn't purchase the extended warranty and the thing craps out after the deadline, you will be shelling out more once repairs are factored in than you would have for the higher quality name brands. WOW!!

Looking at it from a different angle, I bet BB and CC are gonna eat this article up. Now they can say one of two things:

1) "You should purchase our extended warranty because such and such will happen after the manufacturer warranty runs out."

or

2) "It's probably a better idea to go with Brand B because such and such will end up costing you a bundle should something happen after the manufacturer's warranty runs out."

Even if this does occur, I am glad this issue has come to light. Hopefully it will help people make a better decision.

For the money I saved by buying a "disposible" tv, I could buy a replacement tv and, in total, still have spent less money than the cost of the "premium" tv and an extended warrantee.

I saw how some of the budget tvs were producing better picture quality than the premium tvs from just one year before, so I knew that no matter what tv I buy, budget or premium, it will be horribly obsolete within a couple of years! But I didn't want to wait until the technology settled down. So, I bought a cheaper tv with the intention of only keeping it 2 to 3 years. Once the technology reaches a quality level that I'm happy with, I'm going to want to buy another tv. The two combined will probably cost less than one premium tv, and I'll end up with a superior picture.

You must have some very high quality levels. Most would say that excellent PQ has been available over the last 3 years. Better each year but still pretty darn sweet.

"What is the failure rate for PDP or LCD? If memory serves its <2%. "


Data is limited, however Consumer Reports claims its survey rate of repair average is 3% (up to year 2) for LCD and Plasma 2005 and 2006 models

According to the survey plasma brands with "promising reliability" (whatever that means) are Fujitsu, Hitachi, Panasonic, Pioneer, Sonyand Toshiba and the ones with " repairs more than average are Philips and Vizio

The LCD with "promising reliability " are JVC, Magnavox, Panasonic, Philips, Samsung, Sanyo, Sharp, Sony and Toshiba

Dell is the only more than average brand listed.

LCD sales of large screen sets did not take off till 2nd half of 2006, it is probably a little too early to get accurate percentages for the new big screen LCD brands.

HD Guru

Consumer reports is mostly junk articles written by someone who doesn't have a clue and has to be paid off.

For the money I saved by buying a "disposible" tv, I could buy a replacement tv and, in total, still have spent less money than the cost of the "premium" tv and an extended warrantee.

I saw how some of the budget tvs were producing better picture quality than the premium tvs from just one year before, so I knew that no matter what tv I buy, budget or premium, it will be horribly obsolete within a couple of years! But I didn't want to wait until the technology settled down. So, I bought a cheaper tv with the intention of only keeping it 2 to 3 years. Once the technology reaches a quality level that I'm happy with, I'm going to want to buy another tv. The two combined will probably cost less than one premium tv, and I'll end up with a superior picture.
What 3rd party review are you reading says a budget tv gets better quality than a name brand TV. If you buy the new technology when it comes out wouldn't it cost you a "premium" therefor hows this math work out.

I was considering taking my polaroid 46" back to walmart and getting a better brand somewhere else. I think this info will help me decide.

Thanks

Brian
Take your Polaroid back... hurry while you can. Junk.. complete and utter junk. :)

Take your Polaroid back... hurry while you can. Junk.. complete and utter junk. :)


I'm only two weeks into the 90 day return period... I guess I can keep watching it while I research and save a little more $$$.


Brian

What 3rd party review are you reading says a budget tv gets better quality than a name brand TV. If you buy the new technology when it comes out wouldn't it cost you a "premium" therefor hows this math work out.

I'm saying that a brand new budget tv outperforms an 18 month old premium tv!

In 2006, I could have paid $4000 for a premium 46" Samsung with an extended warrenty. That would have given me 1366x768 and blacks that look like greys.

Instead I paid $2000 for a 46" Daytek without a warrenty. It also gives me 1366x768 and grey-ish blacks.

And today, I could go out and buy a $2000 tv with higher resolution and deeper blacks than the $4000 Samsung that I almost bought in 2006. For the same overall cost of that old Samsung, I could have my Daytek PLUS a brand new tv that puts that old Samsung to shame!

HDTV technology is currently evolving, much like computers. You can't buy an uber-expensive PC and expect it to remain high-end forever. No matter how much you spend, it'll still become obsolete in a couple of years! Likewise, you can't buy a premium tv now and expect it to still look high-end in a few years (not with LED backlight LCDs and 1920x1080 Plasmas emerging). When I buy a new PC, I always buy a mid-range CPU that gives me the most power for my money but still leaves me enough money to upgrade within two years. I never have the best PC, but my PC is never too far out of date either! If televisions are going to go obsolete like computer, then why shouldn't I buy my televisions like I buy my computers - buy mid-range with enough money left over to replace it every couple of years as the technology improves! (At least until the technology settles down, then I'll finally by high-end and keep it for longer, bit not until then.)

(*prices in Canadian dollars)

In 2006, a premium 46" Samsung would have been the LNS4696D. This is a 1080p set that originally listed for $3500. Within a month, this could be found from numerous reputable online vendors for not much more than your Daytek. Even at B&Ms, this set could be found for about $3000. To date, I don't know a budget set that puts the LNS4696D to shame.

In 2006, a premium 46" Samsung would have been the LNS4696D. This is a 1080p set that originally listed for $3500. Within a month, this could be found from numerous reputable online vendors for not much more than your Daytek. Even at B&Ms, this set could be found for about $3000. To date, I don't know a budget set that puts the LNS4696D to shame.

- That set wasn't available until later in 2006. I'm talking about the previous Samsung which was 1366x768. I think the Samsung had a dynamic contrast ratio of 4000:1 or 5000:1. It was no comparison to the current 15000:1 Samsungs. It's definately obsolete now.

- My research revealed that the Daytek used a Samsung panel, with the same 1000:1 "true" contrast ratio as the name brand sets of the day. My Daytek also used Faroudja's DCDi processor, which is pretty decent. The only thing the Samsung had over the Daytek was the dynamic backlight (artificially bumping the contrast to 5000:1 or whatever), which at the time, more people complained about than liked (the change in backlight was very noticable)!

- Also, I'm Canadian, so my dollar figures are higher, I'll edit my post.

For the money I saved by buying a "disposible" tv, I could buy a replacement tv and, in total, still have spent less money than the cost of the "premium" tv and an extended warrantee.

I saw how some of the budget tvs were producing better picture quality than the premium tvs from just one year before, so I knew that no matter what tv I buy, budget or premium, it will be horribly obsolete within a couple of years! But I didn't want to wait until the technology settled down. So, I bought a cheaper tv with the intention of only keeping it 2 to 3 years. Once the technology reaches a quality level that I'm happy with, I'm going to want to buy another tv. The two combined will probably cost less than one premium tv, and I'll end up with a superior picture.
Yeah, ah, not likely. If you want to justify your purchase - cool. But to say the cheap brands have better picture quality and that two will cost less than one premium brand; NOT! You must have different eyes than everyone else on the planet :rolleyes:

Edit: if you are talking about Fujitsu and B&O, I agree, but those brands weren't even mentioned as "higher quality" brands in the article. IMO, stick to Pioneer, Panasonic, Sony and Samsung. ;)
You must have some very high quality levels. Most would say that excellent PQ has been available over the last 3 years. Better each year but still pretty darn sweet.
Agreed, and at a very affordable price as well.
I'm saying that a brand new budget tv outperforms an 18 month old premium tv!

In 2006, I could have paid $4000 for a premium 46" Samsung with an extended warrenty. That would have given me 1366x768 and blacks that look like greys.

Instead I paid $2000 for a 46" Daytek without a warrenty. It also gives me 1366x768 and grey-ish blacks.
It also gives you far less superior picture quality. But again, maybe your eye site is different...

And today, I could go out and buy a $2000 tv with higher resolution and deeper blacks than the $4000 Samsung that I almost bought in 2006. For the same overall cost of that old Samsung, I could have my Daytek PLUS a brand new tv that puts that old Samsung to shame!
Your math still isn't working out correctly (the 768p Samsung was never $4000).

HDTV technology is currently evolving, much like computers. You can't buy an uber-expensive PC and expect it to remain high-end forever. No matter how much you spend, it'll still become obsolete in a couple of years!
No, it won't. I get the analogy, but it's a bad one. With a PC, if you don't upgrade every year or two, due to the release of new hardware requirements due to new software requirements, you can't even play the new games. But a plasma doesn't just lose it's functionality as a PC does. I guarantee people who have 5 year old plasmas don't deem their TV's unusable. They may not look as nice as the newer gens, but they are still being used and enjoyed without any slow downs or hiccups (as would occur with an outdated PC). Sorry, but that analogy doesn't stick.
Likewise, you can't buy a premium tv now and expect it to still look high-end in a few years (not with LED backlight LCDs and 1920x1080 Plasmas emerging).
HDTV technology doesn't change as fast as PC technology. HD broadcasting has been only 720p and 1080i for years now (yes, more than two), and it probably wont be broadcast in 1080p for a long long time, if ever. So I have to say, you are dead wrong. A premium TV purchased a few years ago can certainly still look high end and be enjoyed thoroughly.
- That set wasn't available until later in 2006. I'm talking about the previous Samsung which was 1366x768. I think the Samsung had a dynamic contrast ratio of 4000:1 or 5000:1. It was no comparison to the current 15000:1 Samsungs. It's definately obsolete now.

Those are not real world measured contrast ratios, so to say that it is obsolete because of a manufacturers claimed contrast ratio...it's just naive.

Please go justify your purchase elsewhere. This thread is about out of warranty service, which will cost a TON of money to those who purchased the listed brands. Factor that in and your "cheap" TV now cost more than the "premium" TV. :cool:

Does anyone have any opinions on Vizio's Extended Warranties? The Vizio VX37 LCD can be had for under $800 new. Vizio's own 3 year on-site Extended Warranty for this TV costs another $100. That brings the 37'' Vizio's price to under $900 with 3 year coverage, which is still noticeably less than most top brands. But my question here is, is their extended on-site warranty truly on-site? Or will their customers have to ship out their TVs for repair, even with the extended warranty?

Does anyone have any opinions on Vizio's Extended Warranties? The Vizio VX37 LCD can be had for under $800 new. Vizio's own 3 year on-site Extended Warranty for this TV costs another $100. That brings the 37'' Vizio's price to under $900 with 3 year coverage, which is still noticeably less than most top brands. But my question here is, is their extended on-site warranty truly on-site? Or will their customers have to ship out their TVs for repair, even with the extended warranty?
I have never heard of anybody mailing their tv in. In the one case Vizio couldn't fix the Buzz on my P50hdm, they sent me a new one right to my door. Others have even had replacements sent even though the warranty expired.

I have never heard of anybody mailing their tv in. In the one case Vizio couldn't fix the Buzz on my P50hdm, they sent me a new one right to my door. Others have even had replacements sent even though the warranty expired.

You mean you did not just toss it out after all it is disposable you know like a bic lighter :D sorry could not resist

You mean you did not just toss it out after all it is disposable you know like a bic lighter :D sorry could not resist

Heck.....when the plasma gas runs out its out. :D

Edit: if you are talking about Fujitsu and B&O, I agree, but those brands weren't even mentioned as "higher quality" brands in the article. IMO, stick to Pioneer, Panasonic, Sony and Samsung. ;)



So Fujitsu is now not "tier 1"? LOL Sony or Samsung are better? :rolleyes:

Are they now on the "disposable" list :D Kind of a bummer for thouse that paid 5K++

Here is some of thouse TVs to stay away from :)

http://plasmavision.com/home_theater_aviamo.htm

You must have different eyes than everyone else on the planet

I must, because I was very disappointed in the light leakage of the Samsung and Sony LCDs. A friend of mine got a [then just released] Sony KDL-V32A12. I watched "Men In Black" on that tv, and I thought I was watching "Men in Grey"! ;)

You can't honestly tell me that Sony tv still looks good, compared to today's sets. Which brings me back to my original point about *warrenties*... I don't think it's so important whether or not the tv can be fixed, because with very few exceptions, even the name-brand tvs are going to appear obsolete before the extended warrenty expires!

Heck.....when the plasma gas runs out its out. :D

I heard that higher end PDPs have refill kits (you have to have the 10year gold warranty) you know like Colibri Lighters do. :D

The KDLV32A10 (US version) had a very respectable picture. The light leakage you are talking about is almost completely set specific. Sony's XBR2/3 had cloudy backlights but the leakage you are mentioning has never been a widespread problem. BTW, if you want to watch Men In Black, you should watch it on a plasma.

I have never heard of a plasma having a refill kit. It is a sealed panel just like an LCD, when it's done, it's done.

I have never heard of a plasma having a refill kit. It is a sealed panel just like an LCD, when it's done, it's done.[/QUOTE]

I am pretty sure that your leg was being pulled.....

Ray

I am pretty sure that your leg was being pulled.....

I guess he didn't get the memo. :o

Gary,

PM sent...

The light leakage you are talking about is almost completely set specific. Sony's XBR2/3 had cloudy backlights but the leakage you are mentioning has never been a widespread problem.

Don't tell them that on this tread.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=748779&highlight=sony

Sony has even admitted that there is a problem

http://esupport.sony.com/perl/news-item.pl?news_id=168&mdl=KDL46XBR2

Now would Vizio offer a fix? doubt it, but they don't seem to have this problem.

Not surprisingly Samsung has the same problem but no fix.

Sharp also has the uneven backlight but it shows up as vertical lines "banding" No fix from them either.

I bought a Tier 2/3 set, but bought it at Sams for the bedroom.

Their return policy seems to protect my purchase.

Our main set is a Samsung(87W61), and we bought an Akai 1080p LCD for the bedroom.

So Fujitsu is now not "tier 1"? LOL Sony or Samsung are better? :rolleyes:

Are they now on the "disposable" list :D Kind of a bummer for thouse that paid 5K++

Here is some of thouse TVs to stay away from :)

http://plasmavision.com/home_theater_aviamo.htm
No, you either misread or misunderstood what I wrote. I said I agree concerning B&O and Fujitsu, meaning they are the top brands. ;)
I must, because I was very disappointed in the light leakage of the Samsung and Sony LCDs. A friend of mine got a [then just released] Sony KDL-V32A12. I watched "Men In Black" on that tv, and I thought I was watching "Men in Grey"! ;)

You can't honestly tell me that Sony tv still looks good, compared to today's sets. Which brings me back to my original point about *warrenties*... I don't think it's so important whether or not the tv can be fixed, because with very few exceptions, even the name-brand tvs are going to appear obsolete before the extended warrenty expires!
My folks have a 40 inch HD Sony CRT that is around 5-6 years old. It still smokes most TV's in image quality and contrast ratio. So no, most name brand TV's will not appear obsolete by the time the warranty expires. Again, you are just trying to justify your purchase; just stop.

In 2006, a premium 46" Samsung would have been the LNS4696D. This is a 1080p set that originally listed for $3500. Within a month, this could be found from numerous reputable online vendors for not much more than your Daytek. Even at B&Ms, this set could be found for about $3000. To date, I don't know a budget set that puts the LNS4696D to shame.
I agree... The fact is that name brands are now cheap... why by a knock-off to save a couple hundred when the plants they use are based on 3-4 year old technology?

About 10 years ago I purchased a Magnavox 32" tv from BJs for around $400. This set had been on display for about 4 months on all day. I wanted a larger screen size and the s-video connections and all the other inputs and outputs. I ran this thing day and night and the picture was still good and just threw it in the backseat of my car last month and gave it to my sister in law in south dakota where she is now enjoying it. Lets see, $400 over about 10 years...did I mention that it was enhanced defination so the hd tuner in my box gave me a widescreen picture much better then SD. After seeing the vizio at costco for $1149 less $200, I couldn't resist picking one up, even if it only lasts two years (the costco warantee period) I am thrilled with the PQ and the unit in general. I did pick up a smaller LCD TV but it didn't have the tuner to pick up the HD channels just the analog ones and now with FIOS I only get about 25 stations. That LCD tv is on most of the day and evening and it continues to work fine. As someone mentioned, if there is going to be something wrong with the set it is going to show up in the first year, that I believe to be true. I seldom have any electronic thing break three or four years into ownership, the only exception are coffee pots and toasters!. Fortunately, in another 2 years, my 42" vizio is going to be outclassed by every bottom end flat screen being sold. Then again, my first computer was a 386-16 with 512k ram and a 20mb hard drive for something like $3,000! My 3ghz processer, 2gb ram and a 200gb drive was around $600 two years ago. A few weeks ago I put a second 320gb hard drive in for $49 ! I think in a few years flat screens are going to be throw aways just like regular tvs were a few years ago.

We need to start thinking about sustainability of our resources or earth as we know it is going to be a total mess.

We have different definitions of light leakage. I consider light leakage to be where the backlight "leaks" around the edges of the screen. A cloudy backlight is just an inherent characteristic of LCD technology (it is more prevalent on some sets than others but all LCDs have hotspots in certain parts of the screen. Do you see this on all sets? No, but by measuring the light output, it shows. Like Nuance put quite eloquently, quit trying to justify your purchase.

We have different definitions of light leakage. I consider light leakage to be where the backlight "leaks" around the edges of the screen. A cloudy backlight is just an inherent characteristic of LCD technology (it is more prevalent on some sets than others but all LCDs have hotspots in certain parts of the screen. Do you see this on all sets? No, but by measuring the light output, it shows. Like Nuance put quite eloquently, quit trying to justify your purchase.

"light leakage" or banding or clouding or flash-lighting are ALL examples of an uneven back light.

Clouding or any uneven back light is NOT inherent to ALL LCD, :rolleyes: Neither my LG or my Sammies have this problem (well the Sammies I have now any way)

You missed what I was trying to point out. All LCDs have hotspots, most of these are NOT visible and can only be seen by using test equipment that measures light output.

I use a Disply 1/LT and have a spyder2 (don't use often) I have a VisionHDP that I use as a genarator with HCFR software, what are you useing? Like I said my TV's don't leak.

And any way if you can't see it, it really would not be a problem and no one would even mention it, but that is not the case.

No, you either misread or misunderstood what I wrote. I said I agree concerning B&O and Fujitsu, meaning they are the top brands. ;)



Sorry, I reread your post I misunderstood :o

I don't personally do any calibration, I am simply stating what I have seen from looking at the luminance charts that my ISF guy, Barry Vanderberg, has showed me. The light output varies more on LCD than on Plasma or RPTV. I wasn't saying it was a problem, I was simply stating this is a more prevalent (although not always visible) characteristic of LCD tech.

Sorry, I reread your post I misunderstood :o
No problemo! :D

-Update Check out the latest HD Guru post Disposable HDTVs-Vizio Responds

Learn how it changed its warranty just five days after posting the "Disposable HDTV" article .

Its at www.HDGURU.com

The HD Guru

My folks have a 40 inch HD Sony CRT that is around 5-6 years old. It still smokes most TV's in image quality and contrast ratio. So no, most name brand TV's will not appear obsolete by the time the warranty expires. Again, you are just trying to justify your purchase; just stop.

You can't compare LCD to CRT. CRT is a mature technology. CRT can produce more vivid colors and deeper blacks than LCD, regardless of brand. Samsung's best LCD claims "92% Wide Colour Gamut", it still can't produce 100% of all the vivid colors that your 5 year old CRT is capable of producing.

Unlike CRTs, LCD technology is rapidly evolving, so yes, LCD tvs become outdated very quickly. The "% color gamet" has steadily increased each year. The "contrast ratios" have steadily increased each year (not just in meaningless specs, but in visibly blacker blacks). This year's high-end LCDs are visibly better than last year's high-end LCDs. If you were to put last year's LN-S4096D and this year's LN-T4665F side-by-side, the difference would be plain as day. What was considered premium-level picture quality for an LCD a couple years ago is no longer premium-level today.

And get off the "I'm trying to justify my purchase" BS. That's backwards, who ever has to justify *not* spending more money? The only people who need to "justify" their purchases are the people who spent the extra money and paid the premium price for what is no longer a premium-level tv.

You can't compare LCD to CRT.
Your babble is growing more and more senseless with each post. Why wouldn't you compare LCD to CRT? That is the baseline for a good picture. You are suggesting that because LCD can't produce a picture nearly as good as that of a quality CRT that one shouldn't compare the two. If you haven't noticed, all of the improvements in LCDs have been to be able to produce a picture closer to that of a CRT.

This year's high-end LCDs are visibly better than last year's high-end LCDs. If you were to put last year's LN-S4096D and this year's LN-T4665F side-by-side, the difference would be plain as day.
Actually, higher end (read: not Daytek) LCDs have been able to achieve 92% of the color gamut for several years now. Also, I might add that I have compared the 4096 and the 4065 and the differences are minimal. Aside from overscan variations and the glossy screen on the 4065, the images on the two are essentially identical. You should do yourself a service and read Electronic House's article on "LCD's latest buzzword."

And get off the "I'm trying to justify my purchase" BS.
In a nutshell, you bought an inferior TV based on irrational logic. We can gladly leave it a that, as this thread (and forum for that matter) are to discuss technical issues.

hi.. i think i wont buy one

at least for now...

-Update Check out the latest HD Guru post Disposable HDTVs-Vizio Responds

Learn how it changed its warranty just five days after publishing of the Disposable HDTV article .

Its at www.HDGURU.com

The HD Guru

It's good to know that they're listening. Thanks for this! :)

You can't compare LCD to CRT. CRT is a mature technology. CRT can produce more vivid colors and deeper blacks than LCD, regardless of brand. Samsung's best LCD claims "92% Wide Colour Gamut", it still can't produce 100% of all the vivid colors that your 5 year old CRT is capable of producing.
:rolleyes: wsfanatic covered this one in his response, so be sure to read it twice, once for him and once for me. :cool:

Unlike CRTs, LCD technology is rapidly evolving, so yes, LCD tvs become outdated very quickly. The "% color gamet" has steadily increased each year. The "contrast ratios" have steadily increased each year (not just in meaningless specs, but in visibly blacker blacks). This year's high-end LCDs are visibly better than last year's high-end LCDs. If you were to put last year's LN-S4096D and this year's LN-T4665F side-by-side, the difference would be plain as day. What was considered premium-level picture quality for an LCD a couple years ago is no longer premium-level today.
It still will not make the previous generation obsolete, which is the exact wording you used earlier. Sure, the new gen will look better, but I doubt it's going to make most consumers think their TV is obsolete and cause them to run out and buy another one. You are really reaching on this one man...

And get off the "I'm trying to justify my purchase" BS. That's backwards, who ever has to justify *not* spending more money? The only people who need to "justify" their purchases are the people who spent the extra money and paid the premium price for what is no longer a premium-level tv.
Considering I have the best 50" 768p panel there is on the market (well, one of the two that are out there anyway) and considering I got it for much less than most people pay for a TV they have never even researched, you are way off base. I actually research my choice and purchased based on best quality for the price, as well as based on processing abilities and longevity. I bet if I kept my screen for 4 years and you purchased a new cheap brand every year, my screen would STILL look better at the 4 year mark than your 2011 cheapo screen. In this case, you get what you pay for. :cool:
-Update Check out the latest HD Guru post Disposable HDTVs-Vizio Responds

Learn how it changed its warranty just five days after publishing of the Disposable HDTV article .

Its at www.HDGURU.com

The HD Guru
Fantastic news, thanks Gary!

-Update Check out the latest HD Guru post Disposable HDTVs-Vizio Responds

Learn how it changed its warranty just five days after posting the "Disposable HDTV" article .

Its at www.HDGURU.com

The HD Guru

Excellent information Gary. Thanks.