Very disappointing for IMAX style future 3D capability.:(:(:(
IMO, a Gigantic BLUNDER.:(

It is definitely too late to change the specifications. They have been essentially locked for quite a while.Blu-ray Forum Post # 1580 (http://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p=147154&postcount=1580)
The specs make no provision at all for dual stream decoding with two full rasters. There is only one output buffer, so I don't know how having dual streams will help accomplish 3D. It would be easier to use some older tricks like using a 1280 60p or 1920 60i encode and using every other field or frame for the alternate eye.Blu-ray Forum Post # 1591 (http://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p=147186&postcount=1591)

And more importantly, no HD PiP.

Paul, don't take the this the wrong way but honestly, we're you surprised by this?

This only matters to HD DVD fans because it was mentioned. And let's not forget HD DVD can never do it either.

Paul, don't take the this the wrong way but honestly, we're you surprised by this?
Absolutely! :eek:
We've been discussing the possibilities for months. :(

This only matters to HD DVD fans because it was mentioned. And let's not forget HD DVD can never do it either.
Are you from another planet? :rolleyes:
Blu-ray fans have been hoping and discussing 1080P 3D before the first disc's came out!

Paul

Serious question: Can HD DVD support 1080p 3D?

And more importantly, no HD PiP.

What? HD PiP is not mandatory on BD, not impossible. When you think of the impossibility of HD PiP, you're thinking about HD DVD.

And more importantly, no HD PiP.

Correction, no MANDATORY HD PIP for Blu-ray. I don't recall the BDA ever saying there would be mandatory HD PIP so this is certainly not news.

By the way, some Blu-ray fan speculating on something does NOT equate to the BDA making an announcement or promise.

Blu-ray fans have been hoping and discussing 1080P 3D before the first disc's came out!

We have? This is the first I've read about 1080p 3D! :rolleyes:

By the way, some Blu-ray fan speculating on something does NOT equate to the BDA making an announcement or promise.
AGREED! It's just that IMHO, it is a mistake that consumers will have to live with for several years to come.

I was hoping for IMAX style 1080P 3D in the next couple of years for all the potential movies that they now have the technology for.

Spider Man and Lucas's Star Wars will all eventually be in 3D.

Paul

We have? This is the first I've read about 1080p 3D! :rolleyes:
Then you haven't been reading over at the HTF. ;)

Then you haven't been reading over at the HTF. ;)

That would be correct. I don't read that site.

Are you from another planet? :rolleyes:
Blu-ray fans have been hoping and discussing 1080P 3D before the first disc's came out!

Paul

Sorry, duplicate post deleted.

We have? This is the first I've read about 1080p 3D! :rolleyes:

Samsung is selling DLP RPTV's with the IBM made "3D Package" (for lack of a better word). For $100 you buy a kit with an electronic add on and glasses. It ONLY works (the ibm system) with RPTV - no FPD.

Just go to www.samsung.com and click on some RPTV's you will see it.

The IBM system:

http://news.com.com/IBM+demos+low-cost+3D+TV+tech/2100-1041_3-5942512.html?tag=item

3D...Gimmick....No thanks. Sorta like the plasmas with the color changing bulbs behind them.

3D...Gimmick....No thanks. Sorta like the plasmas with the color changing bulbs behind them.

So you have seen a demo to make this judgement?

1080P 3D?

why not ask if it is possible to do holograms on bluray? 1080p 3D is sooooooooooooo last year!

but seriously. what do you expect? if you want to have the imax presentation. go to the imax. that is why the installed those systems. it might take a long time before we can watch such 3D presentations at home anyway. i am already happy enough we can get now movies in 1080P!!!

i just hope more movies will come out for imax. potter was nice. spiderman was awesome on it and 300 and superman too. but i am a realist and i can understand for this moment only 1% of the movies are made for imax.

even transformers wasnt made for imax, which for me was the a very dissapointing decision :(

3D...Gimmick....No thanks. Sorta like the plasmas with the color changing bulbs behind them.
NOT!
Where have you people been?
Have you seen "Superman Returns" 3D at the nearest IMAX?

That's all the new technology. "The Polar Express" 3D anyone?

From what I understand, George Lucas thought the process looked so real that he commissioned it for some future releases.

Paul

And more importantly, no HD PiP.

Very disappointing for IMAX style future 3D capability.:(:(:(
IMO, a Gigantic BLUNDER.:(

Blu-ray Forum Post # 1580 (http://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p=147154&postcount=1580)
Blu-ray Forum Post # 1591 (http://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p=147186&postcount=1591)


Apparently, judging by sales figures, corny features arent what people care about. I know I know there will be all these snappy comebacks. Well Blu Ray just sold 74% in the last week... apparently nobody cares. I dont. Target doesnt and neither does Blockbuster. If you look at worldwide sales data apparently NOBODY cares. :rolleyes:

1080P 3D?.....it might take a long time before we can watch such 3D presentations at home anyway. i am already happy enough we can get now movies in 1080P!!!
That is very true now.

It didn't have to be that way with just a change in the specs. :(

Paul

Apparently, judging by sales figures, corny features arent what people care about. I know I know there will be all these snappy comebacks. Well Blu Ray just sold 74% in the last week... apparently nobody cares. I dont. Target doesnt and neither does Blockbuster. If you look at worldwide sales data apparently NOBODY cares. :rolleyes:
Uh - No one knew about the issue until yesterday? :rolleyes:

Uh - No one knew about the issue until yesterday? :rolleyes:

As if this is going to have ANY effect on sales. It would have been nice to be in the spec, but I feel like all 3d tech, it's a gimmick and wouldn't take off even with the support.

Correction, no MANDATORY HD PIP for Blu-ray. I don't recall the BDA ever saying there would be mandatory HD PIP so this is certainly not news.

By the way, some Blu-ray fan speculating on something does NOT equate to the BDA making an announcement or promise.

No, BDA insider made this claim?

Profile 1.1 supports a secondary video stream at full bit rate at any resolution up to the primary stream resolution.


There are no optional PiP configurations for profile 1.1 or 2.0 configurations.

I feel like all 3d tech, it's a gimmick and wouldn't take off even with the support.
Won't take off? Don't think you'll have very long to wait. Check the future plans of your local cinema.
If you search for this kind of information, you would be surprised to know that "this gimmick"/"IMAX style" 3D movies, will be coming out in regular cinema complexes and now are being experimented with by leading hollywood film makers and the like.

Here are some articles on who is doing what in the effort to bring out 3D-TV:

http://www.merl.com/projects/3dtv/

http://news.com.com/Philips+3D+TV+to...3-6022254.html

http://news.com.com/IBM+demos+low-co...3-5942512.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/03/ar...rssnyt&emc=rss

Apparently, judging by sales figures, corny features arent what people care about. I know I know there will be all these snappy comebacks. Well Blu Ray just sold 74% in the last week... apparently nobody cares. I dont. Target doesnt and neither does Blockbuster. If you look at worldwide sales data apparently NOBODY cares. :rolleyes:

You know this for a fact? How? No one (masses) has ever seen 1080P 3D. They just had a live basketball game shown in movie theaters in 1080P 3D on a 30foot screen and everyone raved as to how good it looked

Hollywood Betting On Higher Priced 3D Movies

3D movies have been around for a while, and now the bigwigs in Hollywood are toying with the idea of going all 3D in the future. According to Regal Entertainment's CEO, audiences are willing to pay premium ticket prices if the movies they see are in 3D.

DreamWorks Animation SKG has already jumped on the trend, saying that by 2009 all of their films will be in 3D. Granted, most theaters will have to switch to systems that support 3D technology, but if it means people paying more cash, Hollywood figures, why not. If the plan goes through...


movies would debut in 3D, and 2D versions would be available in DVD format. Personally, I'd probably stop going to theaters if that were to happen (not that I go much now). Rather than raise ticket prices for these lame movies, they should find out ways to lower prices. Or at least make better movies. – Louis Ramirez

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/gadgets/hollywood-betting-on-higher+priced-3d-movie-debuts-for-the-future-248074.php

You know this for a fact? How? No one (masses) has ever seen 1080P 3D. They just had a live basketball game shown in movie theaters in 1080P 3D on a 30foot screen and everyone raved as to how good it looked


Can I get a 30 ft screen in my home? No.

Can the majority of people get a 30 ft screen in their home? No.

Look, I am not saying it isn't COOL. It's probably cool as all hell, but the fact of the matter is all 3d tech has never sold well, and it wouldn't sell enough for any content to be created for the tech.

Probably cool as hell though I would imagine. :)

We have? This is the first I've read about 1080p 3D! :rolleyes:
Well prior to '07 you were a pretty fervent HD-DVD fanboy, so I guess it's no surprise that you might not have been a part of these discussions that were apparently taking place between long term BD fans. ;)


But ya, like most people I don't really care about this. I mean, they always have to have something held back so that they'll be able to sell us something new in the future, right? ;)

Is 1080p 3D something that the BDA had promised then backed down on? At least it's one less thing the BDA has to worry about when they finally standardize the Blu-Ray players.

Can I get a 30 ft screen in my home? No.

Can the majority of people get a 30 ft screen in their home? No.

Look, I am not saying it isn't COOL. It's probably cool as all hell, but the fact of the matter is all 3d tech has never sold well, and it wouldn't sell enough for any content to be created for the tech.

Probably cool as hell though I would imagine. :)
It would also look great on my 110" home theater screen in glorious 1080P. :) ;)

IMHO, it wasn't "Cool" in the past (before, refereing to the old technics). The "IMAX style" 3D is totally :cool: now.

IMHO, "IMAX style" 3D technology will sell well, because it really is cool:cool: and looks real.

Hollywood is starting to back the "new" technology more than EVER before.

Is 1080p 3D something that the BDA had promised then backed down on? At least it's one less thing the BDA has to worry about when they finally standardize the Blu-Ray players.
Don't think so. It was just misunderstood by those who should know. ;)

It would also look great on my 110" home theater screen in glorious 1080P. :) ;)

IMHO, it wasn't "Cool" in the past (before, refereing to the old technics). The "IMAX style" 3D is totally :cool: now.

IMHO, "IMAX style" 3D technology will sell well, because it is cool:cool: and looks real.

Hollywood is starting to back the "new" technology more than EVER before.


I agree with you Paul. If we never upgraded technology life would become a bore. I want 3D and have been investigating shutter systems for some time now. I think it's a bit early to jump now but I can see where 3D movies and shutter systems will be all the rage in just 2 years.

What kind of specifications are necessary for 3D movies?

No, BDA insider made this claim?

paidgeek is an "insider" on this board. He provides a lot of valuable information, suffers a disproportionate amount of flaming IMO (handles it with grace) and is doing one hell of a job helping produce quality Blu-ray products. But he is not a BDA member and does not speak for the BDA. And he, like the other insiders on this board, can be mistaken occasionally.

But how can a non BDA member have the BD specs?

Can I get a 30 ft screen in my home? No.

Can the majority of people get a 30 ft screen in their home? No.

Look, I am not saying it isn't COOL. It's probably cool as all hell, but the fact of the matter is all 3d tech has never sold well, and it wouldn't sell enough for any content to be created for the tech.

Probably cool as hell though I would imagine. :)

It will look just a cool on a 60" RPTV. We sit much closer to the display at home then we do at a theater (unless you enjoy sitting in the forst 10 row).

Previous home efforts never had the resolution to make 3D a success.

Another fact - dedicated IMAX 3D theaters use a Silver Screen - not a White screen to increase the Contrast Ratio and light reflected back to the audience.

I saw a system with LD using the first 10 minutes of T2 on a 50" RPTV and it looked good. But not good enough.

3D was born in 1952 with Bwana Devil and for years most were the red/green system = bad.

IMAX uses polarization and this system does work. But they use 2 projectors. IBM figured out how to do it with one.

There is no reason why a DLP FPTV couldn't be "retro fitted" with the IBM system and the add on to produce 100"+ at home.

Is 1080p 3D something that the BDA had promised then backed down on? At least it's one less thing the BDA has to worry about when they finally standardize the Blu-Ray players.

"Continuous improvement" has been an axiom of Blu-ray. It will be an evolving technology with enhancements and new capabilities as time goes on. BDA has NOT promised 1080P 3D.

But (an educated guess on my part) I would think that Sony and other members of the BDA certainly have very capable folks exploring 3D and many other different possibilities that can be developed/marketed down the road.

paidgeek is an "insider" on this board. He provides a lot of valuable information, suffers a disproportionate amount of flaming IMO (handles it with grace) and is doing one hell of a job helping produce quality Blu-ray products. But he is not a BDA member and does not speak for the BDA. And he, like the other insiders on this board, can be mistaken occasionally.

If this is the case with paidgeek, then will the folks who call amir a "liar" and (from this very thread) accuse him of "inject(ing) nasty falsehoods into the forum" admit that perhaps he, too, "can be mistaken", and perhaps he too has "suffer(ed) a disproportionate amount of flaming IMO (handles it with grace)"? Or would that be too much to ask?

Vincent

But how can a non BDA member have the BD specs?

Dude, one of my family's cars is a Honda Pilot. I have a maintenance manual on that vehicle and, guess what, I'm not employed by Honda and am not a Honda spokesman. But if somebody asks me about something that's in that manual, I could tell them.

If this is the case with paidgeek, then will the folks who call amir a "liar" and (from this very thread) accuse him of "inject(ing) nasty falsehoods into the forum" admit that perhaps he, too, "can be mistaken", and perhaps he too has "suffer(ed) a disproportionate amount of flaming IMO (handles it with grace)"? Or would that be too much to ask?

Vincent

Vincent, Amir does get flamed some and he has made some mistakes and/or misspoken. Amir is doing a fantastic job representing the interests of his employer on this board. I'd hire him in an instant for my organization but unfortunately almost certainly couldn't afford him.

"Continuous improvement" has been an axiom of Blu-ray. It will be an evolving technology with enhancements and new capabilities as time goes on. BDA has NOT promised 1080P 3D.

But (an educated guess on my part) I would think that Sony and other members of the BDA certainly have very capable folks exploring 3D and many other different possibilities that can be developed/marketed down the road.

They may not have to do anything. 3D is already here via Samsung/IBM - all it needs is a 1080 signal - nothing special - the IBM part takes care of it (it's a $25 part by the way).

Example - HDM players are putting out 24P. Display makers are going to 120Hz so the 24p stream can up frame rate converted to 120 to get rid of the 3:2 Pulldown and the Interlace issue.

LG is going a different route using electronics (CPU's and Memory) to do this. If 3D does become popular we will be deluged with products.

Twin Video Streams - one way
IBM System - another way

We have no software yet. That is the holdup.

Well prior to '07 you were a pretty fervent HD-DVD fanboy, so I guess it's no surprise that you might not have been a part of these discussions that were apparently taking place between long term BD fans. ;)

The extent of my being an HD DVD fanboy lasted 2 months if that. The duration of me giving no support for Blu-ray lasted even less time. Just an FYI. :)

The extent of my being an HD DVD fanboy lasted 2 months if that. The duration of me giving no support for Blu-ray lasted even less time. Just an FYI. :)
Ya, ok. It's just funny when make posts (ie "We have? This is the first I've read about 1080p 3D!") as if you've always been the BD fanboy you are now. I realize it's just a bunch of plastic, but I can't help but chuckle that you seem to want to rewrite history on the subject. :)

They can always make a separate 3D encode the old fashioned way - and with 50GB to work with, they could potentially fit it on the same disc as an extra (or simply include a second disc).

I was pretty disappointed to find out that HD PiP has never been mandatory. I'm not sure where that information started and I, amillians, Amir, and many others have thought it was required. I wish I had known earlier as I try to be accurate with my information. It seems that there was somebody who knew it wasn't, but some of us didn't catch it or realize the person had inside info.

I'm now wondering what has taken the Blu-ray side so long to get PiP, especially adding this to the PS3, given that it is obviously important to Warner and they only have to do SD PiP, but I'll save that conversation for later.

As far as this thread goes, I think there could be a silver lining based on what this person posted here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10699098&&#post10699098
You are almost 100% correct except for this part. The REQUIRED secondary video decoder in Profile 1.1 has a maximum video bitrate of 8 Mbps. The instantaneous maximum bitrate of Primary + Secondary cannot exceed 40Mbps total.

If a player implements the OPTIONAL HD PiP, then the player must support 40 + 40 Mbps, for a total of 80. This obviously would require at least a 2x BD drive.I had thought they were going to have to be careful with the HD PiP and maybe use 720p mostly to leave enough bandwidth for the main video in some cases, but I'm am glad to see that when HD PiP is included they gave some thought to the bandwidth issue and have made sure that they allocated more for this situation. For those looking for pristine 3D 1080p in the future, I don't know if this would be considered good news overall, but maybe compared to having HD PiP be mandatory, but without more required bandwidth to support it. Now we know that if players do get made with HD PiP that software makers releasing discs for those will be able to master with high bandwidth for both tracks. Those discs may not work in players with just 1.5x spin rates though. Looks like 2x spin rate isn't even enough for maxing both out, so that may be bad news for getting this with the PS3 (I think I've read that it has 2x drive currently).

--Darin

3D...Gimmick....No thanks. Sorta like the plasmas with the color changing bulbs behind them.

You statement is ignorant.... Go see a "REAL D" 3D movie and then tell me you think 3D is a gimmick.

Uh - No one knew about the issue until yesterday? :rolleyes:
Shrug, I could have told you last year, shoulda asked!

We have? This is the first I've read about 1080p 3D! :rolleyes:

LoL same here, i dont even know what 1080p 3D is, are these 3D movies where you need the coloured glases? One eye green the other red to watch 3D?

From the Real D FAQ:

Q: Do you have to wear glasses?
A: Yes, you wear 3D glasses, but REAL D Cinema glasses are nothing like the old style glasses you might’ve worn in the past. REAL D Cinema glasses are a lot like sunglasses. They are comfortable, lightweight and styled for each film property.

Pass.

I also heard Blu Ray software will never be able to do the laundry. Oh no!

If this is the case with paidgeek, then will the folks who call amir a "liar" and (from this very thread) accuse him of "inject(ing) nasty falsehoods into the forum" admit that perhaps he, too, "can be mistaken", and perhaps he too has "suffer(ed) a disproportionate amount of flaming IMO (handles it with grace)"? Or would that be too much to ask?

Vincent

Amir said that HD PiP is gone from the spec. He lied. It is just not Mandatory. There is a huge different from optional and not existing. Can you tell me why amir constantly talks more about blu-ray and what it does and doesnt do vs talking up hd-dvd and what it can and cannot do? He IS a hd-dvd insider, why cant he act like one?

As far as 1080p 3D, theaters are showing these with 2048x1080p DLP projectors. Meet the Robinsons looked really good in 1080p this way. And there has been enough progress that two 3D movies were fighting for the same weekend in May of 2009. With James Cameron's Avatar being one of them and looking like it will get to debut in 3D by itself (with the other one debuting a week earlier if it doesn't move again). Given what James Cameron did with Titanic and Terminator: 2 I doubt many would bet against him being successful with Avatar in 3D.

--Darin

If this is the case with paidgeek, then will the folks who call amir a "liar" and (from this very thread) accuse him of "inject(ing) nasty falsehoods into the forum" admit that perhaps he, too, "can be mistaken", and perhaps he too has "suffer(ed) a disproportionate amount of flaming IMO (handles it with grace)"? Or would that be too much to ask?

Vincent
However, there's a big difference. How often does Amir make intentional "mistakes" regarding BD? Plenty. How often have you seen Paidgeek even mention HD DVD? Hardly ever.

Amir can make all the comments regarding HD DVD he wants and be given a little latitude in making a few occasional mistakes. But if these "mistakes" happen with his BD comments, it's pretty much considered FUD from a competing format insider. Heck, he shouldn't even be discussing BD at all - it's one of the basic rules on AVS.

But back on topic, I don't remember any major discussions about 3D. Perhaps this is how theatres want to keep a distinction between HT and the "going out experience"?

3D...Gimmick....No thanks. Sorta like the plasmas with the color changing bulbs behind them.Yeah, just like that gimmicky 3d surround sound. How needs 5 speakers anyway? Theres absolutely nothing wrong with mono audio.

Don't see what all the fuss is over this 3d nonsense.

As far as 1080p 3D, theaters are showing these with 2048x1080p DLP projectors. Meet the Robinsons looked really good in 1080p this way. And there has been enough progress that two 3D movies were fighting for the same weekend in May of 2009. With James Cameron's Avatar being one of them and looking like it will get to debut in 3D by itself (with the other one debuting a week earlier if it doesn't move again). Given what James Cameron did with Titanic and Terminator: 2 I doubt many would bet against him being successful with Avatar in 3D.

--Darin

]I sure as hell wouldn't bet against him. He already has done a 3D film for IMAX - Ghosts of the Abyss and he shot the footage for the T2 3D film ride in Florida. Shooting in 3D is totally different than shooting in 2D and of all the Hollywood directors - he has the most experience.

Also Speilberg will shoot a 3D film in the same time frame - 2009.

By then hopefully Digital Cinema will be in place - 4000x2000 Conversion of 14,000 theaters is supposed to start this year.

I also heard Blu Ray software will never be able to do the laundry. Oh no!

LMAO!!!!!

But back on topic, I don't remember any major discussions about 3D. Perhaps this is how theatres want to keep a distinction between HT and the "going out experience"?Yes. Last I heard the Star Wars series might be released in theaters in a converted 3D form at some point, but I don't know if that is still on. I've seen The Nightmare Before Christmas in 3D, but it didn't look as good as some others. Once there are enough 3D theaters it won't surprise me if some Pixar films get rerendered in 3D and released to theaters.
He already has done a 3D film for IMAX - Ghosts of Titantic (?)Ghosts of the Abyss about going down to the Titanic was awesome. I wish I could replicate that experience at home.
]Also Speilberg will shoot a 3D film in the same time frame - 2009.Thanks. I hadn't heard about that. Should really get things moving in this arena.

--Darin

Amir said that HD PiP is gone from the spec. He lied. It is just not Mandatory. There is a huge different from optional and not existing. Can you tell me why amir constantly talks more about blu-ray and what it does and doesnt do vs talking up hd-dvd and what it can and cannot do? He IS a hd-dvd insider, why cant he act like one?

Jack, I suggest you call Amir out on this on the insiders thread, make your point man. Even some stalwart BD boys (at least those with any credibility) are taking his side on this.

Jack, I suggest you call Amir out on this on the insiders thread, make your point man. Even some stalwart BD boys (at least those with any credibility) are taking his side on this.

zomg! imma gonna do it now!

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Pfffffft.

There is no reason why a DLP FPTV couldn't be "retro fitted" with the IBM system and the add on to produce 100"+ at home.

So this Imax 3D system requires some sort of projection system? How is this of any benefit when the vast majority of HDTVs sold today are flat panels?

3D...Gimmick....No thanks. Sorta like the plasmas with the color changing bulbs behind them.

Gimmick?

Wait until James Cameron's "Avatar," and "Battle Angel" blow you out the back of the theatre. :cool: And I mean a real one, not just an HT. :rolleyes: Then proclaim 3D as a gimmick. :p

I've seen almost every IMAX 3D film that's been released. "Ghosts of the Abyss" and "Siegfried and Roy" are two of the better looking films. However, the frame rate is still only 24 frames per second and while static shots look very realistic, the motion is too jerky or blurry in some cases. Really good 3D should be 60 frames per second like the old Showscan format. Some people will say it makes film look too much like video. Video does have more of a "live" look--for example a soap opera on TV looks too immediate and film is more of a series of still pictures that the audience feels more separated from. But for 3D, I think you need the higher frame rate to combine the 3D look with a more "live" look so that you feel you are more part of the experience. My guess is that we will be stuck with 24 fps 3D even though an all digital system could capture and project higher rates.

AGREED! It's just that IMHO, it is a mistake that consumers will have to live with for several years to come.

I was hoping for IMAX style 1080P 3D in the next couple of years for all the potential movies that they now have the technology for.

Spider Man and Lucas's Star Wars will all eventually be in 3D.

Paul
This is just fud. here is Amirm's response (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9271496&highlight=3d#post9271496) that both formats HD DVD and Bluray have no explicit provisions for 3d.Paid geek's response you quotedOriginally Posted by paidgeek The specs make no provision at all for dual stream decoding with two full rasters. There is only one output buffer, so I don't know how having dual streams will help accomplish 3D. It would be easier to use some older tricks like using a 1280 60p or 1920 60i encode and using every other field or frame for the alternate eye. exactly matches what amirm states So you are stuck with the traditional methods of putting both images on the same video frame and coding them that way. . And then there is this If you are using explicit 3-D coding in either codec, then you are breaking compatibility with the standard and neither format will be able to handle such content. from the same post. This is just another thread who's only purpose is to inflame.

But I NEED Captain EO on Blu-Ray!

DO IT!

So this Imax 3D system requires some sort of projection system? How is this of any benefit when the vast majority of HDTVs sold today are flat panels?

Yes that is an issue - no question. And from the IBM article it costs about $1000 to retro-fit a DLP FPTV for the $100 3D "Kit"

RPTV is looking for a way to increase the sale of RPTV's. They are more profitable than FPD's. The RPTV is going to be hung on the wall this year. It will be between 7" and 9" off the wall. New technology for a 30 year old system.

Right now less than 20% of HDTV sales are RPTV - rest FPD. But the margins are getting slimer in the FPD market. Here are my gleans on what is coming in Q4 for HDTV:

LCD

120 Hz frame rate - some with 24P support.
Frameless panel

RPTV

Reduced size - hang on wall
120Hz frame rate - some with 24P support
Laser Light Engine
3D

RPTV wants back into the market again. Not too long ago they owned almost 100% of the market. If all features make it to market as I describe, I believe RPTV can increase their market share. 16 million HDTV 's are going to be sold by 12/31. A 7% increase is a lot of HDTV's isn't it? (hypo %)

I guess field sequential 3D is possible with HDDVD and BlueRay today. Imagine the signal is encoded in 1080i/60 on the disc, if you split the signal and assign the first halfframe for the left and the second for the right eye, then we'd get 30 halfframes per second for the left side, and 30 halfframes for the right side, which, (eventually doubled to 60) would be sufficient to get a flicker free 3D image.

okay, the full resolution would be splitted and you would assign half of the resolution for the left and half for the right eye, but this is still 3 times the standard NTSC resolution per side, and should create a great HD 3D experience.

IBM's solution seems to be really simple, I think what they do is adding a device to the projector which comprises a polarization filter, which can be switched from horizontal to vertical and back, this is synchronized with the frames so that you can use polarized glasses. I wonder why this is new, because such solutions exist since years, though they are not intergrated into the projector, and have to be mounted in front of the projector lense.

IBM's solution seems to be really simple, I think what they do is adding a device to the projector which comprises a polarization filter, which can be switched from horizontal to vertical and back, this is synchronized with the frames so that you can use polarized glasses. I wonder why this is new, because such solutions exist since years, though they are not intergrated into the projector, and have to be mounted in front of the projector lense.It's new because IBM figured out how to do it with only one projector. Older systems needed two separate video streams (ie 2 projectors).

This is also a much cheaper and more reasonable to support solution considering its niche appeal (today).

It's new because IBM figured out how to do it with only one projector. Older systems needed two separate video streams (ie 2 projectors).

Yes, this is exactly what I tried to say: only one projector with a built-in polarization filter which can be switched from horizontal to vertical and back.

I haven't read anything on this, but just a thought. MPEG, AVC, VC-1 all achieve results far greater than possible with single-frame JPEG type compression because of the SIMILARITY of the vast majority of frames in motion video. It seems to me that this same concept could be used to create the second video channel for stereo. Sence the left and right frames are always pretty similar, a quality second channel could be included for maybe as little as 10% overhead.

3D DVDs could have one channel follow today's standards, and be compatable with today's players. The second channel would be created from the primary channel and additional data read only by the new 3d DVD players.

I'm sure people are feverishly working on ideas like this - they're just not talking about it.

Dave

I haven't read anything on this, but just a thought. MPEG, AVC, VC-1 all achieve results far greater than possible with single-frame JPEG type compression because of the SIMILARITY of the vast majority of frames in motion video. It seems to me that this same concept could be used to create the second video channel for stereo. Sence the left and right frames are always pretty similar, a quality second channel could be included for maybe as little as 10% overhead.

3D DVDs could have one channel follow today's standards, and be compatable with today's players. The second channel would be created from the primary channel and additional data read only by the new 3d DVD players.

I'm sure people are feverishly working on ideas like this - they're just not talking about it.

Dave

I did find this link to some 3D DVD's listed as coming soon:

http://www.sensio.tv/en/home_theater/3d_dvd/soon/default.3d

And this:

News room

[June 26, 2007]

SENSIO SIGNS A LETTER OF INTENT WITH KORD FOR THE DEVELOPMENT OF A NEW 3D TELEVISION - Six other manufacturers are currently evaluating SENSIO® 3D technology

Montreal, Quebec, June 26 2007 - SENSIO Technologies Inc. (“SENSIO”) (TSX Venture Exchange Inc.: SIO), the inventor of the SENSIO® 3D technology, is proud to announce the signature of a Letter of Intent with Kerner Optical Research and Development Corporation (“KORD”) for the development of a new 3D television for the consumer market.

This Letter of Intent states that KORD is seeking to integrate the SENSIO® 3D technology as well as the real-time conversion of 2D images to 3D, into a new LCD HD television, which is currently the object of a development contract between KORD and LCD television manufacturer SpectronIQ. SENSIO and KORD will share the development budgets allocated for the project and the final terms of the agreement will be specified in a contract to be concluded at a later date.

“We are very happy to be able to benefit from SENSIO’s expertise and technology – one of the best leading-edge technologies in the emerging field of stereoscopy, which meets the very high quality standards we are looking for”, said Mr. Yuska “Joe” Siuicki, Chief of Disruptive Technologies at KORD in California.

This Letter of Intent represents a key milestone for SENSIO as part of its strategic development plan focused on the integration of the SENSIO® 3D technology into electronic devices designed for the consumer market. This step is also significant as it will contribute to SENSIO’s objective of becoming the industry’s 3D standard format.

Nicholas Routhier, SENSIO’s President and Chief Executive Officer, says he is “honored and pleased to be working with a company as prestigious as KORD, which, thanks to its innovation is the ideal partner to make 3D accessible at home.”

SENSIO® 3D is being evaluated by six other major manufacturers

SENSIO’s recent promotional tour in Asia allowed the Montreal Company to move beyond the interest phase with major electronic manufacturers. In fact, six of them are evaluating or will soon be evaluating the SENSIO® technology in their labs, with the development material that several manufacturers have already purchased.

“We have now entered the second phase of product development with several manufacturers which is the experimental phase. Successful experimentation leads to the prototype phase and finally to the integration of the SENSIO® 3D technology into electronic devices designed for the mass market. Our vision of 3D being accessible to all, in their home, is now becoming a reality”, explains Mr. Routhier.

About SENSIO

Founded in 1999, SENSIO, headquartered in Montreal, Canada, develops and markets forward-looking stereoscopic technologies designed to offer the most advanced and immersive cinematographic experience available. Its flagship technology, SENSIO®3D, allows the high-quality distribution of 3D content through conventional 2D channels and playback on any display device, including plasma TVs, HDTV and glass-free 3D displays. Working with major Hollywood studios and large format 3D film producers, SENSIO has built up the one of the world's largest library of 3D movies for the home entertainment market.

SENSIO® is a trademark of SENSIO Technologies Inc.

About KORD

In August of 2006, a group of investors purchased Kerner Optical (KO) from Industrial Light & Magic (ILM). As part of ILM, KO helped contribute to ILM’s fifteen Academy Award winning motion pictures through its physical effects, model shop and camera group. Kerner Optical Research and Development, Inc (KORD) was the next natural evolution with its 30 years of movie making history and innovation. Leveraging the strengths of KO technical expertise and SpectronIQ consumer electronics production and distribution chain, KORD has been created to develop and license software and technology to display movies, games and internet media in extraordinary new ways.

KORD brings new concepts, techniques and systems to life. Our projects involve three-dimensional stereoscopic image acquisition and delivery as well as enabling technologies for feature film, simulation and immersive training environments. We are a high-end incubator within a world renowned studio. Our staff is surrounded by top movie industry professionals with years of expertise. KORD’s primary value is our technological innovation focused on leveraging practical creative problem solving into next generation tools for client and industry professionals.

This press release contains prospective information that reflects the expectations of the Company in connection with future events. Actual events may significantly differ from those stated in this document.