From Bizarre Creations (http://www.bizarrecreations.com/article.php?article_id=5257)

As I'm sure you've seen, some of the comments made on our forum have been blown out of all proportion. This has been reported on certain web sites. It seems that a number of fanboys have jumped on the topic... sigh. So it's time we cleared this one up...

When we started designing PGR4 our primary goals were to create a great and unique experience over and above PGR3, to push the hardware as far as we could, and obviously to ensure that we give great value for money. DVD size is absolutely not a factor that we consider when designing our games... and PGR4 is no exception. DVD9 gives us more than we need to create a fabulous experience for you guys.

The previous game, PGR3, had five environments. That's how much we could create given our time and resources for that game. With the longer development cycle we've had for PGR4, as well as the advantage of having final hardware, we wanted to create a far bigger and better game by this time including 10 environments, as well as a whole bunch of new gameplay features.

Rather than having two "fixed" times of day, this time around we decided to use our time to create a dynamic weather system, which effectively creates a much more dramatic palette from which to work with. To show you where we're coming from, have a look at this screenshot crop sheet. This is something we use internally to compare our environments, lighting, and weather effects... but it's certainly useful for demonstrating the breadth of the game here!

Here's the big one here:


We've never had to cut content to fit on the disc, and we probably never will.

Stunning:
http://www.bizarrecreations.com/images/news_content/01-08-07/cropsheet.jpg

So much for the "nanny nanny boo boo" posts from BD enthusiasts.

Stunning:
http://www.bizarrecreations.com/images/news_content/01-08-07/cropsheet.jpg

I remember when some shots made it out of PGR3 before the 360 launched and people thought that the screen shots were just photos of a city street:
http://kotaku.com/gaming/xbox-2/pgr3-photo-realistic-screen-is-real-110774.php
http://kotaku.com/gaming/xbox-360/project-gotham-racing-3-real-world-comparison-117038.php

Man, talk about a boost to Bizarre's ego!


And these shots of PGR4 just blow PGR3 away!

I was hoping this would mean developers would start using the hard drive more. I'm not sure why they don't store more content on the drive.

Stunning:
http://www.bizarrecreations.com/images/news_content/01-08-07/cropsheet.jpg

HOLY CRAP. Those are in-game graphics? That is the best looking game I have ever seen. I'm not a car racing game fan but this has now become a must have. I've never seen game graphics that good before.

I wouldn't argue this issue too much one way or the other.

I think what he says is true, but at the same time he is doing damage control (and in the end, he may be speaking out of both sides of his mouth).

Basically they made the best game they could given ALL of their constraints. Time, money, disc space, talent, CPU, GPU, controllers, etc... they are all factors in creating a game.

I highly doubt that disc space is the biggest constraint. I think we pretty much know that time and money are the big constraints for this generation of games. I don't think we would hear developers say, 'gee we have plenty of time and plenty more money to develop a bigger game, but gosh darn it, we ran out of disc space'.

At the same time I wouldn't say that no game would ever exceed 9gb. We know that some developers of cross platform games are using blu-ray to put uncompressed (or less compressed) sound. More power to them. If the space is there use it.

Now Sony 1st party titles are, to a big extent, trying to justify blu-ray. That might be more important to them in the long run, even if the games profit margins are low. I personally don't see Sonys 1st party titles out shining 360 games anyway (not that they don't look great).

I remember when they announced weather effects being one of the big features of the game. I wasn't very excited. I thought they would just have some rain or snow filter that appears on the screen.

Now that I see what they have done, I think it is a work of technical genius. Bizarre is a great development team. They always amaze.

Those screens look pretty amazing. PGR3 looked great IMO but this one looks to blow it away :)

Remember the first PGR3 trailer that was leaked, with the cars flying through city streets (A lambo Diablo chasing another car or two, Enzo or F430).....I was like "that has to be pre-rendered...has to be".

Then as the weeks went on and we got closer to launch it was very very clear that those were in game graphics. I was floored, the cityscapes around the game looked so real to me, like photos, but they weren't.

Today when I play PGR3 I am annoyed by the aliasing in some portions of the game but I am still visually impressed when I play the game, its still mad fun to play, the environments look great, and I can't wait for PGR4.

Today when I play PGR3 I am annoyed by the aliasing in some portions of the game but I am still visually impressed when I play the game, its still mad fun to play, the environments look great, and I can't wait for PGR4.
Exactly. Taking PGR3, and thinking about them tacking on another 2 years of development to that engine gets me really excited for the game. Hopefully the car models are of the same quality as the environments in those shots.

producers said that this game will have lots and lots of blinding realistic tire smoke, something they wanted in pgr3 but couldn't due to development time and restraints.

The only limitation this people have is how smart they are...lol
not the disc size..

The only limitation this people have is how smart they are...lol
not the disc size..

I hear this game could really fit on a floppy. true story.

Stunning:
http://www.bizarrecreations.com/images/news_content/01-08-07/cropsheet.jpg

Great Zues's Beard!

Thank you for the post admonish.

And we should rally and support the abolishment of this preposterous thread.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=882741

I don't know what is worst; the morons who post this trash or the simpletons who believe it?

The next three - four months are soooo deep in AAA level games.

Stunning:
http://www.bizarrecreations.com/images/news_content/01-08-07/cropsheet.jpg


:eek: :eek: :eek:

Those scenes are stupendously good looking. I need a bib.

The Michellin man looks sick :cool:

Is this game really due on September 14th? I think I read that in another thread that was listing game releases for the next 60 days. Not sure if that was a confirmed date or just a placeholder date.

Those pics do look very good. The snow and rain should be fine for sliding around in as well. I hope the cars look as good during gameplay as they did in the garage of PGR3, that would be very impressive.

I wouldn't argue this issue too much one way or the other.

I think what he says is true, but at the same time he is doing damage control (and in the end, he may be speaking out of both sides of his mouth).

Basically they made the best game they could given ALL of their constraints. Time, money, disc space, talent, CPU, GPU, controllers, etc... they are all factors in creating a game. Personally I'm more bummed that they opted to not have 60fps like PGR1 and what they said they could have achieved with PGR3 if they had more time than not having day and night for each track.

I highly doubt that disc space is the biggest constraint. I think we pretty much know that time and money are the big constraints for this generation of games. I don't think we would hear developers say, 'gee we have plenty of time and plenty more money to develop a bigger game, but gosh darn it, we ran out of disc space'.

At the same time I wouldn't say that no game would ever exceed 9gb. We know that some developers of cross platform games are using blu-ray to put uncompressed (or less compressed) sound. More power to them. If the space is there use it.

Now Sony 1st party titles are, to a big extent, trying to justify blu-ray. That might be more important to them in the long run, even if the games profit margins are low. I personally don't see Sonys 1st party titles out shining 360 games anyway (not that they don't look great).

agreed. It sounds like Ben of Bizzare said something publicly that they probably didn't want out and are trying to minimize the negative reaction it brought. It also doesn't really change his initial point that game still doesn't have night and day cycles.

Ben of Bizzare:
You won't see different times of day per city because this involves recreating all the textures again (one for day and one for night). Whilst this wasn't a problem for our dev team, it was a problem fitting all this data onto a single DVD. So we've worked around the problem by providing different lighting models per city. For example, Macau is always in the daytime, but if you play it during a storm everything looks darker and more foreboding. If you play during a blizzard then things are slightly tinged blue and everything seems more frozen. Of course, playing this track in sunshine will make everything appear bright and yellowy.

Well, everyone was saying that PGR3 was not going to be ready in time for release as a launch title, andit magically appeared, so I'm thinking PGR4 will meet its shipping date.

Thank you for the post admonish.

And we should rally and support the abolishment of this preposterous thread.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=882741

I don't know what is worst; the morons who post this trash or the simpletons who believe it?

I'm sorry, but does the game now support night and day on the same track? Sounds more like damage control and back peddling than saying it was false. They chose to do weather and chose not to do night and day. They have plenty of content that fits on a DVD. That doesn't completely dispell the claim they made earlier that night and day tracks would not fit on a DVD. It's damage control.

I'm sorry, but does the game now support night and day on the same track?As a matter of fact, it will.

As you race on any given track and marvel at how cool the PGR series has been, the player will remark "Wow, the difference between the libraries of the PS3 and the 360 are night and day". ;)

As a matter of fact, it will.

As you race on any given track and marvel at how cool the PGR series has been, the player will remark "Wow, the difference between the libraries of the PS3 and the 360 are night and day". ;)

Haha, good one :D

PGR3 had night and day on the same track for one reason only: To show off the graphics of the 360. Vegas day, awash in HDR and shadows....Vegas night, super neon...but always the same tracks, no weather, no variations....its not like racing at night made the roads cooler or gave you more HP from denser air or put dew on the tracks from condensation... :)

IMHO weather is far more important than the same tracks racing day or night.

PGR3 had night and day on the same track for one reason only: To show off the graphics of the 360. Vegas day, awash in HDR and shadows....Vegas night, super neon...but always the same tracks, no weather, no variations....its not like racing at night made the roads cooler or gave you more HP from denser air or put dew on the tracks from condensation... :)

IMHO weather is far more important than the same tracks racing day or night.

Nobody is saying that night and day is more important than dynamic weather, but that's not the issue at hand.

PGR3 had night and day on the same track for one reason only: To show off the graphics of the 360. Vegas day, awash in HDR and shadows....Vegas night, super neon...but always the same tracks, no weather, no variations....its not like racing at night made the roads cooler or gave you more HP from denser air or put dew on the tracks from condensation... :)

IMHO weather is far more important than the same tracks racing day or night.

Or better, you could have both and let the player decide what combo to go with..

True...and we aren't getting that because there isn't enough space on the disc, or because the developers didn't have another year to relight and retexture the 10 environments were supposed to be getting in game?

BM will no doubt say "Becuase you don't have BluRay". In which case I'd say "Cool, GT5 damn well better have day and night tracks", and not the cheapass kind where they lower the brightness and gamma to simulate the change from day to night, either!

True...and we aren't getting that because there isn't enough space on the disc, or because the developers didn't have another year to relight and retexture the 10 environments were supposed to be getting in game?

BM will no doubt say "Becuase you don't have BluRay". In which case I'd say "Cool, GT5 damn well better have day and night tracks", and not the cheapass kind where they lower the brightness and gamma to simulate the change from day to night, either!

Ben M :confused: How did you find the Bizarre guys last name? Regardless its not "no doubt" when he already said, well he didn't say blu-ray but maybe that was a thought, I'd guess HD DVD due to the add-on. ;)

You won't see different times of day per city because this involves recreating all the textures again (one for day and one for night). Whilst this wasn't a problem for our dev team, it was a problem fitting all this data onto a single DVD. So we've worked around the problem by providing different lighting models per city. For example, Macau is always in the daytime, but if you play it during a storm everything looks darker and more foreboding. If you play during a blizzard then things are slightly tinged blue and everything seems more frozen. Of course, playing this track in sunshine will make everything appear bright and yellowy.

The 8th pic down on the right side looks like midnight to me.

The next three - four months are soooo deep in AAA level games.


At least for us 360 owners :D