I am hoping this CEDIA Universal annouces format neutrality. I am sick of these small 'wins' - like Denon making an exclusive player or the XBOX 360 HDDVD player increasing sales- its all meaningless.

It all boils down to Universal. So with all of you folks with insider knowledge and ridiculous memories what is the word on the block about Universal and format neutrality?

The earlier I see format neutrality, the earlier I will see a larger collection of 50 gb discs dedicated to film only.

CES 2008 or no later than Summer 2008!

CES 2008 or no later than Summer 2008!

Agreed 100%

No hope for CEDIA?

Ken Graffeo is stubborn with his position, I think Universal will go neutral at CES 2008 if GE starts to question his opinions.

Another Universal thread?

Why do we have these EVERY day.

Let's enjoy the movies!

I think this is a very important question to ask ourselves. This war is just dragging on. I sat at a Fry's today and heard the gentelman who was working at the counter spoofing myths about bluray - saying it was dying and that 90% of customers purchase HD-DVD. I walked in, totally interjected him, and thanks to Iphone showed the prospective customer that the misinformed employee was spewing BS he had no idea about.

The only thing left to ask is, "Do you like Universal films?" - and Yes, yes I do. I'm format neutral, but its getting ridiculous. I've gotten to the point where I want Universal to just go neutral and we'd all be happy.

I don't see why anyone thinks Universal will be publishing on BD anytime soon. Reading the recent statements from Ken Graffeo, it sounds like he is more committed to HD DVD than ever.

1. Publishing all new releases on combos - BD has no combos.
2. All new releases with interactivity and internet connetivity - Not available on BD yet.
3. No region codding, which is very important for European sales - BD has region coding.

So I don't know what indication you have that supports anytime in 2008, much less Q1 of 2008. And please don't say that the reason is that BD is selling better now. With < 1% of SD DVD sales, there is no way that any studio would use that as reason for making this important of a business decision. The bottom line is that Universal knows how important it's role is in the HD DVD format. Bill Hunt and the rest of the Blu fanatics have made sure of that with their pubic temper tantrums. Universal is not going to thow away 2 years of hard work for the HD DVD format by going neutral in Q1 of 2008. Especially when the best is yet to come for HD DVD with $100 Chinese HD DVD players that the masses will gobble up.

If anything, Universal will probably just show off more advanced interactivity and internet features at CES 2008 - things which are not even supported by BD yet.

Ken Graffeo is stubborn with his position, I think Universal will go neutral at CES 2008 if GE starts to question his opinions.

He's about to get a dose of reality come Q4 when Blu-ray destroys HD DVD.

We don't get enough of these threads.

Ces 2008

I just think if I was a HD-DVD owner I'd be frustrated. I mean Disney is a HUGE HUGE HUGE Deal. Sony as well. And Fox too. HD-DVD elitists know that the only reason HD-DVD is still around is because of one studio.

Ces 2008

Why do we have these EVERY day.

Let's enjoy the movies!
Because some peoples emotional well being is tied up with being on the winning side of course. lol

I just think if I was a HD-DVD owner I'd be frustrated. I mean Disney is a HUGE HUGE HUGE Deal. Sony as well. And Fox too. HD-DVD elitists know that the only reason HD-DVD is still around is because of one studio.

Yea, Warner. Had Warner been Blu-ray Exclusive, this battle would be over a long time ago.

Fact of the matter is, Universal has: Back to the Future, and Jurassic Park. That's it! Jaws I don't think will move a lot of discs.

I just think if I was a HD-DVD owner I'd be frustrated. I mean Disney is a HUGE HUGE HUGE Deal. Sony as well. And Fox too. HD-DVD elitists know that the only reason HD-DVD is still around is because of one studio.

I'm a BD owner and I'm frustrated that I have to wait at least another 4 months to do what HDDVD could do on day one. The only thing that frustrates me about HDDVD is combo discs.

If you want to talk exclusives, than your comparing one studio to three. I could easily pull out a ton of exclusives that would dwarf them.

Ken Graffeo seems like a true believer on a mission to convert the world to HD DVD come what may. He is more assertive and enthusiastic than any other studio head (even Sony).

Recent statements from him (e.g. at EMA) suggest that he is under pressure.

My guess is that he has been asked to put together a detailed sales forecast with benchmarks including both the Universal titles and the overall format war numbers.

What do you suppose those forecasts say? That Blu-ray will still be 67-33 by December? VERY LIKELY NOT. He is probably claiming that HD DVD will overtake Blu-ray in the weekly numbers on a regular basis by the end of the year and will be positioned to pick up more studio support. If he is not promising something this dramatic, he would not be allowed to continue.

It is inconceivable that there are not people at Universal and GE (some of whom may want his job!) who are generating contrary predictions and forecasting failure for Mr. Graffeo's strategies. They also have their spreadsheets and are sharing them with GE managers.

You can bet that people are looking at the 33 titles shipped in Q2 and complaining about the meagre sales.

I have seen this at companies. When a marketing/sales guy is under pressure, when management asks him to put together a forecast and vouch for it, he has to generate an "optimistic" forecast, and he has to make it happen.

If you don't, it can be the end of your tenure and the inception of a change in policy.

Graffeo has to be in a precarious situation, and Universal is very vulnerable as a result.

I think he is on a limb.

Why do we have these EVERY day.

Let's enjoy the movies!
Ditto! I just said something similar over in the HD-DVD Software forum. Were the OP posted a "What would you do if Universal would go Neutral?" What do you expect to hear in the HD-DVD forum? All this is getting old! Instead of getting sound advice on this forum about my questions, you get something like "Sell it and buy a PS3" or "Sell it and buy a AX2" JESUS!

Ken Graffeo seems like a true believer on a mission to convert the world to HD DVD come what may. He is more assertive and enthusiastic than any other studio head (even Sony).

Recent statements from him (e.g. at EMA) suggest that he is under pressure.

My guess is that he has been asked to put together a detailed sales forecast with benchmarks including both the Universal titles and the overall format war numbers.

What do you suppose those forecasts say? That Blu-ray will still be 67-33 by December? VERY LIKELY NOT. He is probably claiming that HD DVD will overtake Blu-ray in the weekly numbers on a regular basis by the end of the year and will be positioned to pick up more studio support. If he is not promising something this dramatic, he would not be allowed to continue.

It is inconceivable that there are not people at Universal and GE (some of whom may want his job!) who are generating contrary predictions and forecasting failure for Mr. Graffeo's strategies. They also have their spreadsheets and are sharing them with GE managers.

You can bet that people are looking at the 33 titles shipped in Q2 and complaining about the meagre sales.

I have seen this at companies. When a marketing/sales guy is under pressure, when management asks him to put together a forecast and vouch for it, he has to generate an "optimistic" forecast, and he has to make it happen.

If you don't, it can be the end of your tenure and the inception of a change in policy.

Graffeo has to be in a precarious situation, and Universal is very vulnerable as a result.

I think he is on a limb.


When do you think he will make his next speech?

Ken Graffeo seems like a true believer on a mission to convert the world to HD DVD come what may. He is more assertive and enthusiastic than any other studio head (even Sony).

Recent statements from him (e.g. at EMA) suggest that he is under pressure.

My guess is that he has been asked to put together a detailed sales forecast with benchmarks including both the Universal titles and the overall format war numbers.

What do you suppose those forecasts say? That Blu-ray will still be 67-33 by December? VERY LIKELY NOT. He is probably claiming that HD DVD will overtake Blu-ray in the weekly numbers on a regular basis by the end of the year and will be positioned to pick up more studio support. If he is not promising something this dramatic, he would not be allowed to continue.

It is inconceivable that there are not people at Universal and GE (some of whom may want his job!) who are generating contrary predictions and forecasting failure for Mr. Graffeo's strategies. They also have their spreadsheets and are sharing them with GE managers.

You can bet that people are looking at the 33 titles shipped in Q2 and complaining about the meagre sales.

I have seen this at companies. When a marketing/sales guy is under pressure, when management asks him to put together a forecast and vouch for it, he has to generate an "optimistic" forecast, and he has to make it happen.

If you don't, it can be the end of your tenure and the inception of a change in policy.

Graffeo has to be in a precarious situation, and Universal is very vulnerable as a result.

I think he is on a limb.

Great point, I never thought of that.

Yea, Warner. Had Warner been Blu-ray Exclusive, this battle would be over a long time ago.

Fact of the matter is, Universal has: Back to the Future, and Jurassic Park. That's it! Jaws I don't think will move a lot of discs.


Warner was HD DVD only at first and later added support for BLU RAY. If Warner was neutral still along with Universal this would really be a WAR!

Ces 2011

CES 2008 is a great guess since by then for sure this format war will be decided. Blu-Ray will have enough market saturation for Universal to take notice and realize defeat of HD DVD is going to happen and their is nothing they can do about it.

Nothing will happen before the end of 2007. I think CES will annouce support for BLU RAY, but may not have any titles released until Spring/Summer. Just my guess.

At this point I almost would rather Universal refuse to ever release anything on HD ever - just so I would never have to see another one of thse threads.
It amazes me people still have energy to discuss the same subject back and forth over and over.

We don't get enough of these threads.
No kidding! These threads are making me nauseous.

CES 2008 is a great guess since by then for sure this format war will be decided. Blu-Ray will have enough market saturation for Universal to take notice and realize defeat of HD DVD is going to happen and their is nothing they can do about it.


HD DVD is not exactly failing. There is a margin but not a huge one. Both the HD and BD version of "300" is in the Amazon top 5 currently, and PLANET EARTH (both formats) was in the AMazon top 10 together for a long time. I'm getting tired of this HD DVD will die a slow death talk already. I'm a supporter of both and like both, as do many others.

Why do we have these EVERY day.

Let's enjoy the movies!

There are poeple who dont have an HD DVD player and they CANT enjoy the universal movies. For those its interessting when Universal goes neutral!
I know for you it doesnt matter you "took the red and the blu pill"

There are poeple who dont have an HD DVD player and they CANT enjoy the universal movies. For those its interessting when Universal goes neutral!
I know for you it doesnt matter you "took the red and the blu pill"
True, people without HD-DVD players don't have access to Universal movies without neautrality. But why do we need to have COUNTLESS threads on the topic based on nothing more than pure speculation and conjecture?

I hope really soon. I can't imagine your pain watching POTC one more time.

There are poeple who dont have an HD DVD player and they CANT enjoy the universal movies. For those its interessting when Universal goes neutral!

dude, that's all fine and stuff..

but we don't need a new thread everyday on the same subject.
Post in one thread. These threads get posted like it's some giant step into great thought and revelation... that might have been true for the first one. But the 23rd?
Seriously if you need this many threads about the same subject - maybe you should do yourself a favor and start an entire forum for said discussion.

I think summer of 2008 at the earliest; maybe CES 2009. One thing I think they are waiting on is just a general increase in overall sales; it's not hurting them too much as long as sales overall are slow (both BD and HD DVD; compared to DVD). Another thing which I think they are waiting on is for BD to get the whole profile 1.1 transition complete; to allow them to put their PiP stuff from HD DVD transfers on BD (which is also one reason I think Warner has held back on some of their releases). The last item which seems to be of interest to Universal is sales of standalone players. I believe Graffeo was quoted as mentioning (don't recall where) about the importance historically (with DVD) of standalones vs. game consoles.

If you want Universal buy an HD DVD player! Stop acting like little babies.

If you hold off on buying 6-7 BD's then you got the money for an HD DVD player.

Same thing can be said for HD DVD supporters if they want Disney buy a Blu-ray player.If they hold off on 10 combo's then they can afford a Samsung stand alone.

I just dont get it. Some of you have collections of more than a hundred BD's instead of buying 150 BD's (which probably include pieces of crap like Little Man , Ultraviolet and Primevil) you could have bought 143 BD's and with the remaining money purchased an HD DVD with 5 free movies. This format war isnt a matter of life and death. You wont be tried for treason if you have both formats.

There are poeple who dont have an HD DVD player and they CANT enjoy the universal movies. For those its interessting when Universal goes neutral!
I know for you it doesnt matter you "took the red and the blu pill"


Thank you. That is exactly my feelings. I would like Universal go neutral and go buy 10 Universal BDs rather then drop $200+ on another player!

People complain about these threads yet still click on them, read them and then post in them. If you have something better to talk about, then start a thread about it! I'm sick of reading pages of responses muddled with gripes about the topic, just to find actual responses to the original post.

Universal speculation thread #2,789,992

Not brought up in this thread is the fact that Universal's exclusive contract with HD-DVD should be up at year's end.

I say CES '08 and they'll either do an about face and say "for the good of the longevity of HD media we will now support Blu-ray and end this war" or they'll go neutral.

Either way with their spotty release quality (a few possibly even 480i upconverts looking at the comparison shots) they make WB seem like smart cookies. I'd be worried about the quality of their releases on Blu-ray too.

Dan

Being a BD supporter, I could really give a sh!t less when Universal decides to do BD. Until then I will spend my cash on other BD titles. Universal can't get my cash with out BD titles.

Not brought up in this thread is the fact that Universal's exclusive contract with HD-DVD should be up at year's end.

I say CES '08 and they'll either do an about face and say "for the good of the longevity of HD media we will now support Blu-ray and end this war" or they'll go neutral.

Either way with their spotty release quality (a few possibly even 480i upconverts looking at the comparison shots) they make WB seem like smart cookies. I'd be worried about the quality of their releases on Blu-ray too.

Dan


Thank you I wish someone had told me that before. Is there any more information regarding that?

If you want Universal buy an HD DVD player! Stop acting like little babies.

If you hold off on buying 6-7 BD's then you got the money for an HD DVD player.

Same thing can be said for HD DVD supporters if they want Disney buy a Blu-ray player.If they hold off on 10 combo's then they can afford a Samsung stand alone.

I just dont get it. Some of you have collections of more than a hundred BD's instead of buying 150 BD's (which probably include pieces of crap like Little Man , Ultraviolet and Primevil) you could have bought 143 BD's and with the remaining money purchased an HD DVD with 5 free movies. This format war isnt a matter of life and death. You wont be tried for treason if you have both formats.

No. I refuse to buy into a slowly dying format. You dual format people have more money than sense.

The fact of the matter is by Christmas Sony will have sold another 4 or 5 million PS3s at least, and toshiba will have shifted what, a measely 100k extra hd dvd players? Universal is not the private plaything of any one person, and will not continue its lopsided fight indefinitely. The marketing is already dictating a winner, its only a matter of time before even the losing side realizes it.

PLEASE don't use the "well not all of them will buy bluray discs" arguement. We know they wont, but enough already have to destroy hd dvd sales throughout the entire year. This gap will only widen by Christmas.

universal will go format neutral about the same time Disney does.

How 'bout that?

No. I refuse to buy into a slowly dying format. You dual format people have more money than sense.

The fact of the matter is by Christmas Sony will have sold another 4 or 5 million PS3s at least, and toshiba will have shifted what, a measely 100k extra hd dvd players? Universal is not the private plaything of any one person, and will not continue its lopsided fight indefinitely. The marketing is already dictating a winner, its only a matter of time before even the losing side realizes it.

PLEASE don't use the "well not all of them will buy bluray discs" arguement. We know they wont, but enough already have to destroy hd dvd sales throughout the entire year. This gap will only widen by Christmas.
have you read the review of hot fuzz,for a dying format,woah :) .

No. I refuse to buy into a slowly dying format. You dual format people have more money than sense.

The fact of the matter is by Christmas Sony will have sold another 4 or 5 million PS3s at least, and toshiba will have shifted what, a measely 100k extra hd dvd players? Universal is not the private plaything of any one person, and will not continue its lopsided fight indefinitely. The marketing is already dictating a winner, its only a matter of time before even the losing side realizes it.

PLEASE don't use the "well not all of them will buy bluray discs" arguement. We know they wont, but enough already have to destroy hd dvd sales throughout the entire year. This gap will only widen by Christmas.


Your absolutely right. The Playstation 3s have been flying off the shelves recently.

have you read the review of hot fuzz,for a dying format,woah :) .

A meaningless arguement. Guess what hot fuzz will come out on once hd dvd is dead?

Your absolutely right. The Playstation 3s have been flying off the shelves recently.

The thing is the PS3 doesnt have to sell as well as say, the Wii, its still selling 50 times faster than hd dvd players. I am far from being some kind of Sony lover, but the reality of the situation is pretty clear here.

HD DVD is not exactly failing. There is a margin but not a huge one. Both the HD and BD version of "300" is in the Amazon top 5 currently, and PLANET EARTH (both formats) was in the AMazon top 10 together for a long time. I'm getting tired of this HD DVD will die a slow death talk already. I'm a supporter of both and like both, as do many others.

I don't think anyone will disagree that there are many dual supporters out there. The thing is, you can't support both formats forever. Not everyone is willing to spend on both formats.

Especially when the best is yet to come for HD DVD with $100 Chinese HD DVD players that the masses will gobble up.


http://aycu39.webshots.com/image/22478/2005963271397311278_rs.jpg

Does anyone else remember when these were mythical $200 chinese hd dvd players?

I predict April 1, 2008 and it will NOT be an April Fools Joke :)

~Josh

Why does it matter if Universal goes neutral? I thought the format war was already over for the 53rd time this year...

Universal won't go neutral as long as HD-DVD players continue to sell as well as they are selling. End of story.

my inside sourses tell me when hell freezes over at the earliest :D

Because some peoples emotional well being is tied up with being on the winning side of course. lol

That's why I'm DF. I'll win for sure! :D

Thank you. That is exactly my feelings. I would like Universal go neutral and go buy 10 Universal BDs rather then drop $200+ on another player!

Nay!

People complain about these threads yet still click on them, read them and then post in them. If you have something better to talk about, then start a thread about it! I'm sick of reading pages of responses muddled with gripes about the topic, just to find actual responses to the original post.

Here, here!

http://aycu39.webshots.com/image/22478/2005963271397311278_rs.jpg

Does anyone else remember when these were mythical $200 chinese hd dvd players?

De@dme@t (the unspeakable one) does! :D

I predict April 1, 2008 and it will NOT be an April Fools Joke

~Josh


How well did your 2007 prediction transpire????



Won't happen anytime soon....


1. Publishing all new releases on combos - BD has no combos.
2. All new releases with interactivity and internet connetivity - Not available on BD yet.
3. No region codding, which is very important for European sales - BD has region coding.


Well said.

I love that the hd dvd side keeps pitching combos as something to be proud of. Combos are CRAP. They raise the price and are USELESS. The logic behind them is completely flawed in multiple ways.

I won't touch a combo with a stick.

^Agreed.

CES 2008...GE will re-assign Kenny Boy by then...

No. I refuse to buy into a slowly dying format. You dual format people have more money than sense.
Don't blame me for being dual format, I had HD DVD first. ;)

CES 08 assured. If graffeo doesnt do it, GE will fire his booty and send him to work the grill at burger king and hire a puppet to announce neutrality at CES.

CES 08 assured. If graffeo doesnt do it, GE will fire his booty and send him to work the grill at burger king and hire a puppet to announce neutrality at CES.
Nah!! He'd get fired quickly at Burger King. He'd prepare the burgers HIS WAY and offer the customer's no choice. He'd be saying things such as "What's this 'Have it your way' crap". Damn it, I know what is best for the customers. They'll flock here after they see I'm right. I'm the smartest guy in the room, not these damned customers. It's just going to take them some time. And I don't care about slow sales. There will be NO MORE 'Have it your way' stuff while I'm in charge of this grill."

That Burger King franchise's owner would initially be puzzled by his location's slow sales, particularly after he had a discussion with the manager of the competing Wendy's and found THEIR sales were soaring. He'd investigate what's happening and "MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY" Graffeo's short career as a grill man would be over faster than you can say "What an a@@hole".

Ken Graffeo is to Universal Home Video what Richard Sharp was to Circuit City.

See if this sounds familiar:

"Sales at participating Divx retailers reflect strong consumer interest in the Divx feature," said Richard L. Sharp, chairman and chief executive officer of Digital Video Express and of Circuit City Stores, Inc. (NYSE:CC, KMX), the majority partner in the Digital Video Express venture. "The majority of customers purchasing DVD players in Circuit City stores have selected players that include the Divx option. Unfortunately, we have been unable to obtain adequate support from studios and other retailers. "

We all know what happened to DIVX. Apparently Graffeo is repeating history.

January 1st, 2008.

I predict 31st February, 1622. Hi-def parchment for the win.

They will never go Blu Ray, both hardware manufacturers want 2 formats. That way they both sell more hardware, period. The whole war is a marketing creation, they are just waiting for the consumers to give up and accept there will be 2 formats.
Don't Toshiba make components for the PS3 and aren't they are supposed to be 'format enemies'? Think about it.

You sound like that army surplus guy in Falling Down.

I've predicted it before, and I'll stick by my prediction: Universal will go neutral by Spring 08. That's assuming the ratio of BD's to HD-DVD's sold remains about 2:1, which actually will only get higher once Fox/MGM gets back into the act.

Of course, my track record on CE predictions is not very good. A few months ago, I said it would take Sony at least a year to add upconverting to the PS3. Firmware version 1.8 came out a week later. My best prediction was a few years ago when my teenage kids were excited to tell me about this new product from Apple. I said that no one was going to be stupid enough to pay $400 for an MP3 player, and I predicted that Apple was going to lose their shirts on this iPod thing. :rolleyes:

He's about to get a dose of reality come Q4 when Blu-ray destroys HD DVD.

Well said.

I predicted that Apple was going to lose their shirts on this iPod thing. :rolleyes:

I still don't have an iPod, but hey, Apple really did have great PR and everything worked out. Where's the HD DVD camp's PR guys?

I still don't have an iPod, but hey, Apple really did have great PR and everything worked out. Where's the HD DVD camp's PR guys?

Thinking up talking points to feed to the HD DVD partisans at AVS.

I thinks is going to take a much large sales divide than what its currently being seen to provoke Universal to go neutral, the difference in sells between the two formats is not as large as some make it out to be, and no where large enough to force Universal's hand.

I've predicted it before, and I'll stick by my prediction: Universal will go neutral by Spring 08. That's assuming the ratio of BD's to HD-DVD's sold remains about 2:1, which actually will only get higher once Fox/MGM gets back into the act.

Not bad, but I'd put it at Fall '08. They might make the decision in the spring & implement for the holiday season (summer sales suck, why even start)...........................but..............there's so many factors involved.

- we like to follow the sales by the week, companies don't. They view it by quarters.

- continued with a poor attachment rate & they'll not budge

- HDM has to make some dent in the market, at the moment it's nothing

These change & they might start looking at making some changes.

Truly laughable is the thought that Universal is leaving money on the table. HDM in TOTAL wouldn't even rate a line item in GE's budget. They likely spend more on toliet paper in a single day than HDM's total revenues to date.

Example - Evan Almighty looks to LOSE more money than ALL of HDM's revenue to date. That might get GE to give Uni a look, but the $.50 they missed on HDM? Not even a blip.

I'm guessing re-evaluation will happen after the '07 holiday season or at the end of Uni's fiscal year (which is when?)

When Ken leaves...guys in those positions don't like to be made to look the fool and going neutral would mean a bruised ego for Ken. He resigns or goes somewhere else I bet within 6 months they go neutral but not before

never.

CES, 2008

never.

So you're thinking they'll just jump right from HD-DVD exclusive to Blu-ray exclusive? That's an interesting take on it. Have to wait and see I guess.

10 minutes after Sony Pictures. :)

In exchange for LG, Fox and Disney releasing a few titles on HD, Uni will announce a few on BD....these will all be on the TotalHD format.

Next Summer.

One studio will go neutral at CES 2008 and its not Uni. A studio that already has worked with HD DVD ;)

In exchange for LG, Fox and Disney releasing a few titles on HD, Uni will announce a few on BD....these will all be on the TotalHD format.

Next Summer.

One studio will go neutral at CES 2008 and its not Uni. A studio that already has worked with HD DVD ;)


If you are spewing Disney, You are flat out wrong.

There will be no BD studios going neutral @ CES 2008.

Total HD format won't see the light of day. The numbers are skewing too much away from HD DVD and will continue to do so throughout 2007.

eskimo, are you worried?

i'm just saying... the betamax, vhs war lasted almost 20 years and almost took 10 of those years till one started flat out just winning. who is to say this will not just take as long? By the time it is over and done this time though i'd say you will see movies being downloaded to large hard drives in media players in the homes before either hddvd or bluray is dead. Also wasn't the last betamax player released or made earlier in 2000?? neither one is going away. If you want universal movies now in highdef instead of waiting 5-6 years for in home downloads i'd suggest you buy a hddvd player. I wouldn't be far fetched to say you would see Sony, Fox, Or Disney go neutral before Universal will sway.

Another little food for thought. If warner hadn't switched neutral before both formats came out do you even think we would be having this conversation? I doubt it. :eek:

I have to agree with thebland on this one. CES makes sense to me. If the 2007 holiday shopping season produces greater than a 3 to 1 software sales disparity, they will be going down with a sinking ship. Universal will find it difficult to keep up with the combined output of Disney, Sony, Fox, MGM and Starz. I believe that even ultra cheapo Chinese players cannot save HD DVD at this point. How many families will put an HD DVD player in their cart only to realize the top new releases aren't available on the format? They will shelve it or box it up and return it.

This graph illustrates the "announced" title output of each studio. Once Fox and MGM are back in the game it will be quite evident to the average consumer which way this thing is headed. The combined HD DVD out put of Universal, Warner and Paramount represents less than 50% of the combined output of all studios, while Blu-ray enjoys over 80% of that output. Once Fox and MGM get back in the game, it will look even worse.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-9/1071897/graph-1.jpg

Nielsen/Videoscan numbers for the week ending 7/22:

Blu-ray Disc: 74

HD-DVD: 26

It's already a 3 to 1 sales margin in a month that saw few Blu-ray releases and a number of good HD DVD offerings from Universal..

Nielsen/Videoscan numbers for the week ending 7/22:

Blu-ray Disc: 74

HD-DVD: 26

It's already a 3 to 1 sales margin in a month that saw few Blu-ray releases and a number of good HD DVD offerings from Universal...


DAMN.

I have to agree with thebland on this one. CES makes sense to me. If the 2007 holiday shopping season produces greater than a 3 to 1 software sales disparity, they will be going down with a sinking ship. Universal will find it difficult to keep up with the combined output of Disney, Sony, Fox, MGM and Starz. I believe that even ultra cheapo Chinese players cannot save HD DVD at this point. How many families will put an HD DVD player in their cart only to realize the top new releases aren't available on the format? They will shelve it or box it up and return it.

This graph illustrates the "announced" title output of each studio. Once Fox and MGM are back in the game it will be quite evident to the average consumer which way this thing is headed. The combined HD DVD out put of Universal, Warner and Paramount represents less than 50% of the combined output of all studios, while Blu-ray enjoys over 80% of that output. Once Fox and MGM get back in the game, it will look even worse.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-9/1071897/graph-1.jpg

Nielsen/Videoscan numbers for the week ending 7/22:

Blu-ray Disc: 74

HD-DVD: 26

It's already a 3 to 1 sales margin in a month that saw few Blu-ray releases and a number of good HD DVD offerings from Universal..



It's almost like Fox planned from the beginning that they'd come in at Q4, saving the day, winning the format war, and being the heroes of HD.

:rolleyes: lol....

I really hate Fox right now :(

Nah!! He'd get fired quickly at Burger King. He'd prepare the burgers HIS WAY and offer the customer's no choice. He'd be saying things such as "What's this 'Have it your way' crap". Damn it, I know what is best for the customers. They'll flock here after they see I'm right. I'm the smartest guy in the room, not these damned customers. It's just going to take them some time. And I don't care about slow sales. There will be NO MORE 'Have it your way' stuff while I'm in charge of this grill."

That Burger King franchise's owner would initially be puzzled by his location's slow sales, particularly after he had a discussion with the manager of the competing Wendy's and found THEIR sales were soaring. He'd investigate what's happening and "MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY" Graffeo's short career as a grill man would be over faster than you can say "What an a@@hole".

That might be funny, except it is EXACTLY what Sony has tried to do MULTIPLE times thoughout the years. WAY the h3ll off base!!!

Nah!! He'd get fired quickly at Burger King. He'd prepare the burgers HIS WAY and offer the customer's no choice. He'd be saying things such as "What's this 'Have it your way' crap". Damn it, I know what is best for the customers. They'll flock here after they see I'm right. I'm the smartest guy in the room, not these damned customers. It's just going to take them some time. And I don't care about slow sales. There will be NO MORE 'Have it your way' stuff while I'm in charge of this grill."

That Burger King franchise's owner would initially be puzzled by his location's slow sales, particularly after he had a discussion with the manager of the competing Wendy's and found THEIR sales were soaring. He'd investigate what's happening and "MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY" Graffeo's short career as a grill man would be over faster than you can say "What an a@@hole".

And here we have it folks. Someone calliing someone he does not know an a hole. A personal attack on someone who helps run a company. Some people are way too into this. Go watch a movie.

I doubt you will see Universal switch unless HD DVD is completely dead and has been marginalized.
I picked up an A2 to the other day for $240 to replace my 360 add on. Now I can enjoy the best of both worlds (Blu and HD) including the audio on HD DVD.
If you can afford a Blu-ray player you should be able to afford a HD DVD player as well. People who chose one format over the other this early in the format war should have knows that these things don't end quickly.

I doubt you will see Universal switch unless HD DVD is completely dead and has been marginalized.

So which is it, completely dead or marginalized? I believe it will be easy to argue that HD DVD is marginalized (insignificant or peripheral) by the end of the year.

I am sorry but I witnessed the VHS and Beta battle back in the mid 80s and the scenario was strangely similar. Multiple manufacturers of VHS players coupled with shrinking retail and studio support for the Beta format. Sony's Betamax home video system was the most popular format in 1983 but by 1985, the market had turned sharply towards VHS. Yeah, it was still around but for all intents and purposes it was dead. A fate I believe will befall HD DVD by year's end.

Yep ...I was there too - and YES this sceario is strangely similar. I chose Beta over VHS in those early days - and ended up having to re-buy many movies on VHS. Pained as I was - I remember being very happy that going forward there was just gonna be one tape format.

So which is it, completely dead or marginalized? I believe it will be easy to argue that HD DVD is marginalized (insignificant or peripheral) by the end of the year.

I am sorry but I witnessed the VHS and Beta battle back in the mid 80s and the scenario was strangely similar. Multiple manufacturers of VHS players coupled with shrinking retail and studio support for the Beta format. Sony's Betamax home video system was the most popular format in 1983 but by 1985, the market had turned sharply towards VHS. Yeah, it was still around but for all intents and purposes it was dead. A fate I believe will befall HD DVD by year's end.


If it was the same fate, it be BD losing. You know seemly winning for two years to all of a sudden be blindsided, and lose to what was thought as a dead venture.

If it was the same fate, it be BD losing. You know seemly winning for two years to all of a sudden be blindsided, and lose to what was thought as a dead venture.

Sony has not repeated its mistake of the past. This time they have the overwhelming manufacturer and retailer support. That is something Sony's Betamax failed to accomplish. There were few companies licensed to produce Beta players while there were a number of manufacturers producing VHS machines. In addition, this time around they were savvy enough to acquire one of the largest Hollywood studios, Columbia Pictures.

Toshiba is the company that is basically alone in the woods this time around. They didn't learn from Sony's mistake of the past. They have one or two companies producing players and they do not even have total studio support. In fact, they are in a more difficult position than Sony was back in the 80's.

I was an HD DVD enthusiast. I didn't learn from my past experience as a video store owner back in the 1980's. When I stepped back and realized that Toshiba had failed to secure new manufacturers and studio support I quickly bailed on the format. Universal's continued exclusive support of HD DVD is nearing its end. Mark my words.

You need to do some research before you post. Sony has not repeated its mistake of the past. This time they have the overwhelming manufacturer, retailer and studio support. Toshiba is the company that is basically alone in the woods this time around. They didn't learn from Sony's mistake of the past. Universal's continued exclusive support of HD DVD is nearing its end. You can proceed down a blind coourse but eventual you will be forced to open your eyes to facts that are as plain as the nose on your face.


You didn't read the post correctly, he guy before me stated that HD-DVD was following the same course as beta which in the case of his post isn't true. He said that that Beta had the popular support for two years, when all of a sudden VHS came back to win. Since BD has the popular support, that situation happening again would imply BD. Your just reading more into it than you should, anyway I support both so no blind course for me.

Beta was indeed the preferred format initially. He got it right.

And that was my point, he stated HD-DVd was following beta's footsteps but for that to be true, that would mean HD-DVd would have to be winning currently then we would see BD come back for the win, see what I mean?

The Beta-VHS issue doesn't really fit very well into discussion of this format war because at that time Sony didn't own a major movie studio. Now they're much more wrapped up in the software side of things because they control a massive library of content.

With the array of content they have at their fingertips, and the fact that Blu-ray is tied into SCE with the PS3, it's nigh unthinkable that they would ever abandon the BD format. The stakes are simply too high for them. That's why you see such a better job at marketing and exposure from Sony. (whether you think their tactics are fair or not doesn't change the issue that there's no marketing machine that can spin like the Sony marketing machine) Because they're a controlling interest in both hardware and software, they can (and, indeed, must, given the stakes) wage a much more effective marketing campaign at making consumers aware of Blu-ray, with enough exposure that eventually the average consumer simply assumes that BD is the de facto format.

Toshiba and Universal are simply unable to wage so closely coordinated a PR battle, as each company is only responsible for one aspect of the format. And so far, it shows-- HD-DVD advertising seems largely disjointed and frequently invisible.

And that was my point, he stated HD-DVd was following beta's footsteps but for that to be true, that would mean HD-DVD would have to be winning currently then we would see BD come back for the win, see what I mean?


Yeah I see what you meant now....but HD DVD did seem to have the upper hand last year and I think that is what he was referring to... Things sure did turn around quickly, didn't they?

The Beta-VHS issue doesn't really fit very well into discussion of this format war because at that time Sony didn't own a major movie studio. Now they're much more wrapped up in the software side of things because they control a massive library of content.

That is precisely the point being made. Read the post. They got manufacturer, retailer as well as studio support this time around. Their ownership of Columbia was definitely a factor but had HD DVD won total studio and manufacturer support the tables would be turned regardless of their own exclusive library. Sony made the right decisions this time. I have to disagree with you. It is VERY similar to the VHS and Beta battle only this time the tables are reversed because they learned from past mistakes.

The chart back there with 75% Blu and 25% HD-DVD is a pretty strong sign that Universal is rethinking their game plan.

What about the data put out a few weeks ago showing BD software sales GROWTH reversing while HD-DVD sales increased like 20% for the Q1-Q2 period? You can explains some of it due to seasonal and release variations, but at this stage in the game, growth should more than absorb any of that?

boring pointless thread.

Don't waste your life reading boring, pointless things.

Don't waste your life reading boring, pointless things.

You mean do as I say not as I do? At this point, more than 2400 posts would beg to diisagree with you.

Don't waste your life reading boring, pointless things.

But, how can you know it's boring and pointless without reading it?

Now, if you had said, "Don't waste your life responding to threads you find pointless and boring," I would have been behind you 100%.

What about the data put out a few weeks ago showing BD software sales GROWTH reversing while HD-DVD sales increased like 20% for the Q1-Q2 period? You can explains some of it due to seasonal and release variations, but at this stage in the game, growth should more than absorb any of that?


I think it was an anomoly with seasonal and release schedules to blame.

Additionally, percentage growth is easily spinnable, ie, I sold 2 and now I sold 3, my sales are up 50%.

What we do know is that BD is increasing it's lead each week and each month this year. Additionally what we know is BD standalones are catching up with HD DVD standalones based on the HD DVD PRG's own marketing release.

This time Sony is in it to win it. They've got almost universal CE support and almost total studio support...

To keep Universal on the HD DVD side, Toshiba and HD DVD are going to have to do something magical in the 4Q. But with that BD release schedule, I don't see what they can do.

What about the data put out a few weeks ago showing BD software sales GROWTH reversing while HD-DVD sales increased like 20% for the Q1-Q2 period? You can explains some of it due to seasonal and release variations, but at this stage in the game, growth should more than absorb any of that?

HD DVD threw everything it had at Blu-ray in Q2. Blu-ray on the other hand didn't do much at all. Considering how bad Q1 was for HD DVD, it would make sense for them to have a huge growth.

Universal is losing a lot of potential sales. They'll lose even more when PS3 sells over 100,000,000 units just like the PS2. Oh boy....$$$$

I don't see why anyone thinks Universal will be publishing on BD anytime soon. Reading the recent statements from Ken Graffeo, it sounds like he is more committed to HD DVD than ever.

1. Publishing all new releases on combos - BD has no combos.
2. All new releases with interactivity and internet connetivity - Not available on BD yet.
3. No region codding, which is very important for European sales - BD has region coding.

So I don't know what indication you have that supports anytime in 2008, much less Q1 of 2008. And please don't say that the reason is that BD is selling better now. With < 1% of SD DVD sales, there is no way that any studio would use that as reason for making this important of a business decision. The bottom line is that Universal knows how important it's role is in the HD DVD format. Bill Hunt and the rest of the Blu fanatics have made sure of that with their pubic temper tantrums. Universal is not going to thow away 2 years of hard work for the HD DVD format by going neutral in Q1 of 2008. Especially when the best is yet to come for HD DVD with $100 Chinese HD DVD players that the masses will gobble up.

If anything, Universal will probably just show off more advanced interactivity and internet features at CES 2008 - things which are not even supported by BD yet.I was thinking of this just the other day. Their vow to include interactivity on every new release after Heroes tells me that BD is of no concern to Universal. Why would it be? It's not capable of the same features.

I think it is much more likely that CES 2008 Universal renews their exclusivity to HD DVD at CES 2008. Technologically speaking, BD is far behind HD DVD and that would certainly be a concern for a company that is clearly interested in pushing the boundaries of interactivity. BD doesn't provide what Universal needs. Why in the world would they switch or even go neutral? It's simple: they won't!

Universal is losing a lot of potential sales. They'll lose even more when PS3 sells over 100,000,000 units just like the PS2. Oh boy....$$$$

There is not the slightest chance in hell that the PS3 would sell that much if Blu-ray fails. Now if Blu-ray succeeds we could be talking a different story.

im also waiting for universal to hop on the blu-ray bandwagon...i wanna see scarface in high def dammit lol...but yeah like everyone said blu-ray should own this year and next year universal should announce its neutral or backing blu-ray now

If Universal wants to release Steven Spielberg's films, they will need to support Blu-Ray. Any one remember when he made Universal retract the announcements of his films for HD-DVD? But Close Encounters from Columbia is coming out on Blu-Ray.

Because some peoples emotional well being is tied up with being on the winning side of course. lol
WOW I would think you would feel funny saying that with your sig and your post count in such a short time here.... nothing better to do huh?

It doesnt matter when Universal goes BD, the stores and media reports are deciding for them.

If Universal wants to release Steven Spielberg's films, they will need to support Blu-Ray. Any one remember when he made Universal retract the announcements of his films for HD-DVD? But Close Encounters from Columbia is coming out on Blu-Ray.

Universal could release their Spielberg titles tomorrow if they wanted, they do not need his permission at all. He did not MAKE Universal retract the announcement either. The only problem is Universal WANTS Speilberg's permission. To WANT and to NEED are a huge difference. They do not want to risk getting on the bad side of one of the biggest names in Hollywood.

With that said, I think Spielberg is just a little ticked at Universal for some previous experiences and wants to see them squirm a little bit. Universal will release his films in due time....with or without his permission.

I predict April 1, 2008 and it will NOT be an April Fools Joke :)

~Josh

Is that prediction coming from the same place that yielded your prediction about Fox announcing new release dates for previously canceled titles? I think you stated they'd be doing it in July, didn't you? What's today's date?

There is not the slightest chance in hell that the PS3 would sell that much if Blu-ray fails. Now if Blu-ray succeeds we could be talking a different story.


Not to mention it's kind of foolish to assume one console will sell a certain amount because of the generation before it. Assumptions like these are what sunk Sega, Atari and almost sunk Nintendo. The playing field is different each time. It could sell more - it could sell less. Time will only tell.

Wow..I mean simply wow at most posts here.. think much?




===

http://www.designbyinfinity.com/internet/avssig.jpg

- we like to follow the sales by the week, companies don't. They view it by quarters.



What?

When I was briefly in the movie business, I saw everyone looking at the grosses each and every Sunday and then again on Monday when the final numbers came in. They studied them very carefully to know what to do next.

Today, theatres ship the grosses in each night and they are compiled by early the next morning for managers to review.

I very much doubt that Universal and other companies are not following the progress of the format war much more closely (and with a lot more information) than we have.

I was thinking of this just the other day. Their vow to include interactivity on every new release after Heroes tells me that BD is of no concern to Universal. Why would it be? It's not capable of the same features.

I think it is much more likely that CES 2008 Universal renews their exclusivity to HD DVD at CES 2008. Technologically speaking, BD is far behind HD DVD and that would certainly be a concern for a company that is clearly interested in pushing the boundaries of interactivity. BD doesn't provide what Universal needs. Why in the world would they switch or even go neutral? It's simple: they won't!

The "bounds of interactivity" idea is Microsoft's latest talking point for HD DVD. They have long believed in interactive TV.

I suspect Universal will decide that they are more interested in what sells at some point. Mr. Graffeo has very likely been given a short time to produce concrete results/

I just wish you guys would make up your mind. Is Uni's content important or not? Is interactivity and special features important or not?

Universal's interactivity is not important at all. NONE! I think it would be great if they would release BD movies. There are quite a few titles that I would like to see from Universal. Universal is the only thing that is keeping this format war from ending. If they go neutral or switch to BD exclusive that would be the complete end of the war. According to a poster on highdef digest, they are "claiming" they work for Universal and saying that Sony has paid 1 billion dollars to Universal to go BD exclusive. I don't know if anyone can believe this, but there have been more far fetched rumors that have been true. So we'll see.

DVD Empires stats!

Format: Blu-Ray/ HD-DVD
Week:55.47%/ 44.53%
Month:62.65%/ 37.35%
Year: 61.78%/ 38.22%

Titles: 291/284
Studios:26/29

:rolleyes:

Shawn

I was thinking of this just the other day. Their vow to include interactivity on every new release after Heroes tells me that BD is of no concern to Universal. Why would it be? It's not capable of the same features.

I think it is much more likely that CES 2008 Universal renews their exclusivity to HD DVD at CES 2008. Technologically speaking, BD is far behind HD DVD and that would certainly be a concern for a company that is clearly interested in pushing the boundaries of interactivity. BD doesn't provide what Universal needs. Why in the world would they switch or even go neutral? It's simple: they won't!

If you think HD DVD will have the upper hand in interactivity come October you are sorely mistaken. After October all Blu-ray players will be required to support PIP. Blu-ray already has some features not implemented in HD DVD. Blu-ray supports JAVA which is a programmable language with virtually infinite possibilities. Disney is already using it on their discs such as the games on their Pirates of the Caribbean discs. Blu-ray also supports seamless branching, something also supported by DVD but it is something that is next to impossible to implement within HD DVD because its disc spin rate is 1x as opposed to Blu-ray's 1.5x, HD DVD's data access is just not fast enough.

Universal will announce neutrality next year, GE will demand it.

All this interactivity crap is just hysterical. I don't think many people want to have to access the internet with their high def disc only to be sold on additional crap. If it is truly worthwhile, include it on the disc. The funny thing is that except for a select few titles, much of the supplemental material on DVDs is not even worth a first viewing let alone a second viewing. The picture in picture feature is cool, sure, but ater I watch a movie, the last thing I wanna do is watch it again with a talking head in the lower right hand corner. Gimme a break. This is not gonna keep Universal from going neutral just as it doesn't hinder Warner from releasing discs with fewer features than the HD DVD on Blu-ray ...and you know what? Warner admitted that Blu-ray represents 60% of their hgh def sales. Most people just don't care.

..and for those that do, just as the poster before me indicated, Blu-ray will have all those features by the end of the year. There simply isn't any advantage to owning HD DVD and the recent retail and studio news only makes Toshiba's format more irrelevant.

Because some peoples emotional well being is tied up with being on the winning side of course. lol

Ummm yeah so? Do you like to hang out with losers? ;)

Some people do. The victim mentality....

I think this is a very important question to ask ourselves. This war is just dragging on. I sat at a Fry's today and heard the gentelman who was working at the counter spoofing myths about bluray - saying it was dying and that 90% of customers purchase HD-DVD. I walked in, totally interjected him, and thanks to Iphone showed the prospective customer that the misinformed employee was spewing BS he had no idea about.

Nice one dude, good on ya.

All this interactivity crap is just hysterical. I don't think many people want to have to access the internet with their high def disc only to be sold on additional crap. If it is truly worthwhile, include it on the disc. The funny thing is that except for a select few titles, much of the supplemental material on DVDs is not even worth a first viewing let alone a second viewing. The picture in picture feature is cool, sure, but ater I watch a movie, the last thing I wanna do is watch it again with a talking head in the lower right hand corner. Gimme a break. This is not gonna keep Universal from going neutral just as it doesn't hinder Warner from releasing discs with fewer features than the HD DVD on Blu-ray ...and you know what? Warner admitted that Blu-ray represents 60% of their hgh def sales. Most people just don't care.

..and for those that do, just as the poster before me indicated, Blu-ray will have all those features by the end of the year. There simply isn't any advantage to owning HD DVD and the recent retail and studio news only makes Toshiba's format more irrelevant.


Exactly right. By the end of the year the only advantage HD-DVD has (interactivity) will be available on Blu-Ray and all the Warner titles will be the same on both for a change. Blu-Ray will still have the advantage in terms of bandwidth/datarate and disc space along with all the studio support except for Universal. Blu-Ray has no combo's (thank God)...

Ken Graffeo seems like a true believer on a mission to convert the world to HD DVD come what may. He is more assertive and enthusiastic than any other studio head (even Sony).

Recent statements from him (e.g. at EMA) suggest that he is under pressure.

My guess is that he has been asked to put together a detailed sales forecast with benchmarks including both the Universal titles and the overall format war numbers.

What do you suppose those forecasts say? That Blu-ray will still be 67-33 by December? VERY LIKELY NOT. He is probably claiming that HD DVD will overtake Blu-ray in the weekly numbers on a regular basis by the end of the year and will be positioned to pick up more studio support. If he is not promising something this dramatic, he would not be allowed to continue.

It is inconceivable that there are not people at Universal and GE (some of whom may want his job!) who are generating contrary predictions and forecasting failure for Mr. Graffeo's strategies. They also have their spreadsheets and are sharing them with GE managers.

You can bet that people are looking at the 33 titles shipped in Q2 and complaining about the meagre sales.

I have seen this at companies. When a marketing/sales guy is under pressure, when management asks him to put together a forecast and vouch for it, he has to generate an "optimistic" forecast, and he has to make it happen.

If you don't, it can be the end of your tenure and the inception of a change in policy.

Graffeo has to be in a precarious situation, and Universal is very vulnerable as a result.

I think he is on a limb.
rl,
Nifty summary of the current events.
Aren’t you the guy that has worked in some aspect of the film production business in the past ?

Presently what is currently happening and will happen for x amount of time is that
Uni will dump as many titles as they can on the market as fast as they can while HD DVD still has a breath of life in it in order to maximize on their initial investment/position.

Post houses like Technicolor and Deluxe can’t get them out the door fast enough. ;)

Ken Graffeo seems like a true believer on a mission to convert the world to HD DVD come what may. He is more assertive and enthusiastic than any other studio head (even Sony).

Recent statements from him (e.g. at EMA) suggest that he is under pressure.

Did you attend EMA or are you commenting upon some secondary source ?

The reason I ask is you'll notice that between parts 5 ? and 6 ? of the HTF video for EMA, there appears to be a sloppy edit where suddenly Ken G. is speaking in mid-stream. There is no context to his remarks and it is obvious that something has been removed or was missing to begin with. Apparently, he was commenting at the time, about being under “pressure” – from whom or what I don’t know for sure as I did not attend.

The above has come to my attention in that I am assisting in defense of a possible pending Civil Action Complaint against a member of the audience for an entirely different matter unrelated to Ken G.

If you or anyone from the AVS forum was in attendance for this event and is willing to give a statement under oath as to what they recall, please send me a PM to make arrangements.

It would be greatly appreciated.

Thank You.

Universal? 31st of February in 2100:p

rl,
Nifty summary of the current events.
Aren’t you the guy that has worked in some aspect of the film production business in the past ?

Presently what is currently happening and will happen for x amount of time is that
Uni will dump as many titles as they can on the market as fast as they can while HD DVD still has a breath of life in it in order to maximize on their initial investment/position.

Post houses like Technicolor and Deluxe can’t get them out the door fast enough. ;)

Thanks for the post but do I am not in any aspect of film production. Used to be in exhibition.

It will be interesting to see if Universal keeps dumping their titles out at the same rate. They have only announced 4 for October (all catalog) and nothing yet for November or December. I would think someone might be asking if it was a wise policy.

When do you think Universal will announce Format neutrality?

When BR offers fully functioning players with DDTHD, DTS-HDMA, HDMI 1.3 and BD-Java! Owe and at a price of $199.99! Then we need Dual Layer BR burners for $99.00 as well!

Then Universal can jump ship and we will have one format!

I actually want the war to continue on for at least two more years! The longer the war, the cheaper the prices and the better off the consumer is! Universal is to Toshiba what I-Tunes is to Apple. Without it, they have will have to fold there hand.

Did you attend EMA or are you commenting upon some secondary source ?

The reason I ask is you'll notice that between parts 5 ? and 6 ? of the HTF video for EMA, there appears to be a sloppy edit where suddenly Ken G. is speaking in mid-stream. There is no context to his remarks and it is obvious that something has been removed or was missing to begin with. Apparently, he was commenting at the time, about being under “pressure” – from whom or what I don’t know for sure as I did not attend.

The above has come to my attention in that I am assisting in defense of a possible pending Civil Action Complaint against a member of the audience for an entirely different matter unrelated to Ken G.

If you or anyone from the AVS forum was in attendance for this event and is willing to give a statement under oath as to what they recall, please send me a PM to make arrangements.

It would be greatly appreciated.

Thank You.

I was not present. Several sources commented that he said he was under pressure. You may recall that only three days earlier Variety had a lengthy article about Universal being pushed by the industry so it is not without context. That is all that I know.

I have heard from a few sources--very informally--that Universal has become a subject of jest in the valley these days on account of the format war. Has anyone else heard this?

I have heard from a few sources--very informally--that Universal has become a subject of jest in the valley these days on account of the format war. Has anyone else heard this?
Sorry, no comment.

It will be interesting to see if Universal keeps dumping their titles out at the same rate. They have only announced 4 for October (all catalog) and nothing yet for November or December. I would think someone might be asking if it was a wise policy.
I believe Craig Kornblau personally is a BIG proponent of the Jan. timeframe.
We shall see what transpires.

All this interactivity crap is just hysterical. I don't think many people want to have to access the internet with their high def disc only to be sold on additional crap.

Agreed, count me among the group that doesn't give a rat's ass for "interactivity". If I want to look something up, I'll do it on my computer. I will hardly ever watch extra content as well.

I want to see movies. I want great picture and sound on my movies. Everything else is meaningless.

Agreed, count me among the group that doesn't give a rat's ass for "interactivity". If I want to look something up, I'll do it on my computer. I will hardly ever watch extra content as well.

I want to see movies. I want great picture and sound on my movies. Everything else is meaningless.

Blu-ray already has BD-J which offers lots of interactitiy. Profile 1.1 offers two HD streams at the same time, which can produce some really interesting effects that HD DVD cannot do.

As soon as Profile 1.1 is out, the argument will shift to Internet access, which HD DVD is still ahead of Blu-ray on.

In any event, most people just want to put the disk in the player and watch the movie. I am the only person in my household who even looks at any of the special features.

All this interactivity crap is just hysterical. I don't think many people want to have to access the internet with their high def disc only to be sold on additional crap. If it is truly worthwhile, include it on the disc. The funny thing is that except for a select few titles, much of the supplemental material on DVDs is not even worth a first viewing let alone a second viewing. The picture in picture feature is cool, sure, but ater I watch a movie, the last thing I wanna do is watch it again with a talking head in the lower right hand corner. Gimme a break. This is not gonna keep Universal from going neutral just as it doesn't hinder Warner from releasing discs with fewer features than the HD DVD on Blu-ray ...and you know what? Warner admitted that Blu-ray represents 60% of their hgh def sales. Most people just don't care.

..and for those that do, just as the poster before me indicated, Blu-ray will have all those features by the end of the year. There simply isn't any advantage to owning HD DVD and the recent retail and studio news only makes Toshiba's format more irrelevant.

No advantage to owning and supporting both? Hot Fuzz, Shaun of the Dead and 300 with extra features that are well worth every bit of the extra five spot says you are dead wrong. ;)

Blu-ray already has BD-J which offers lots of interactitiy. Profile 1.1 offers two HD streams at the same time, which can produce some really interesting effects that HD DVD cannot do.

As soon as Profile 1.1 is out, the argument will shift to Internet access, which HD DVD is still ahead of Blu-ray on.

In any event, most people just want to put the disk in the player and watch the movie. I am the only person in my household who even looks at any of the special features.


You're absolutely right. I work in electronics at wally world and the vast majority always pick up the single disc copy of a movie just because they're not interested in special features that a 2-disc special edition offers. take for instance 300. a ton of the 2-disc copies still set on the shelves but the basic 1 disc is empty. it comes from the customers mouths. they could care less about additional content.

You're absolutely right. I work in electronics at wally world and the vast majority always pick up the single disc copy of a movie just because they're not interested in special features that a 2-disc special edition offers. take for instance 300. a ton of the 2-disc copies still set on the shelves but the basic 1 disc is empty. it comes from the customers mouths. they could care less about additional content.
On most movies that is true. But movies like the LOTR I watched hours of extras and really enjoyed them. They add a lot to the whole experience of watching them.

"couldn't care less"

"could care less" means they actually care a little...

:)

I was not present. Several sources commented that he said he was under pressure. You may recall that only three days earlier Variety had a lengthy article about Universal being pushed by the industry so it is not without context. That is all that I know.

I have heard from a few sources--very informally--that Universal has become a subject of jest in the valley these days on account of the format war. Has anyone else heard this?
What's that old saying about only fools "spend good money after bad"? Perhaps Universal's current management fits into that category.

Blu-ray already has BD-J which offers lots of interactitiy. Profile 1.1 offers two HD streams at the same time, which can produce some really interesting effects that HD DVD cannot do.

As soon as Profile 1.1 is out, the argument will shift to Internet access, which HD DVD is still ahead of Blu-ray on.

In any event, most people just want to put the disk in the player and watch the movie. I am the only person in my household who even looks at any of the special features.
Personally, I don’t care at all about interactivity because for me it just detracts from the film experience, per se. However, I can appreciate different strokes for different folks but, since we drifted slightly off-topic, may I ask your or someone else’s* thoughts on another *technical enhancement* which I think demonstrates more real world benefits to pure film enthusiasts than does interactivity.

I would ask this in the HD DVD forum(s) but I respect their neighborhood and don’t want to be a distraction to their preferred format enjoyment.

I don’t keep up with all this technical mumbo-jumbo too much but does anyone know if HD DVD has any movies with seamless branching either on the market or *announced as being in the works* ?

Or perhaps more pertinent to this thread, does Uni have any ?
Or maybe I’m getting ahead of myself here, is it confirmed beyond reasonable doubt that HD DVD can even do seamless branching and if so, is the difficulty level so high that in reality it would preclude its use for real world disc production so that the consumer may never see a title with this important feature anyway ?

*Any Blu-ray supporters can feel free to respond with impunity. :)
I am only a "spelling Nazi" to HD DVD supporters in the Blu-ray software forum.

but does anyone know if HD DVD has any movies with seamless branching either on the market or *announced as being in the works* ?

Return to House on Haunted Hill has been announced to use seamless branching on both formats.

i have both formats.2ps3 and a hda2 and 360 add on.The formats are both good but the winner will be the one who has the 99 or less player.That means sony nor toshiba will make these but china.Most people want cheap and that will be the bottom line.

Return to House on Haunted Hill has been announced to use seamless branching on both formats.

That, and a few others can to.

No advantage to owning and supporting both? Hot Fuzz, Shaun of the Dead and 300 with extra features that are well worth every bit of the extra five spot says you are dead wrong. ;)

I own an HD DVD player (HD A1) but since buying my PS3 I grew to enjoy the Blu-ray experience much more. I changed my point of view and now believe that a single format would be more beneficial for consumers and the future of high definition.

There are rumblings that the Weinstein Company may go neutral as early as the fourth quarter. If true, it will be another in a long line of recent developments that add to the perception that manufacturers, retailers, studios and consumers have made their choice. I believe that there is going to be so many exclusive titles coming to Blu-ray that high definition consumers will grow extremely wary of buying into HD DVD at any price. The Chinese player strategy is an empty promise. People will not choose a format that doesn't have the titles they desire. Period. The current numbers already indicate that there is a 2 to 1 or better advantage for Blu-ray in software sales at a time when Fox and MGM have gone absent and the folks at Universal have been churning out high def titles as fast as they can replicate them. Warner has already admitted that Blu-ray accounts for roughly 60% of their high definition sales.

The Blu-ray camp is like a tiger in the tall grass waiting to pounce in the fourth quarter. I believe the ratio will be 3 to 1 by Christmas if not better. It is only a matter of time before the number of HD DVD titles at brick and mortar retailers becomes increasingly limited. Universal has not had a robust year at the box office except for the financial disaster "Evan Almighty," "Knocked Up" and "The Bourne Ultimatum." Face it, not one is the kind of marquee title to move a consumer when choosing a format. Certainly not as much an influence as The Pirates of the Caribbean or Spider-man films (regardless of personal tastes). The folks at Fox and MGM will be churning out titles exclusively on Blu-ray very soon (the HD DVD faithful can continue with their delusion) along with Sony, Lionsgate, Starz Entertainment and Disney. Most of Universal's high definition software sales will come from catalog titles which typically sell fewer copies than recent theatrical output.

The argument that the HD DVD faithful like to make is that the number of high definition consumers is so insignificant that they do not need to release on Blu-ray. If you follow that logic, why should they even bother with HD DVD? That line of thinking is quite laughable. As the software disparity continues to grow, Universal will need Blu-ray in order to appeal to a wider consumer base. It isn't a question of "if," but "when." I believe it will happen at CES if the 4th quarter is Blu.

You know, Universal is an odd bird in the scheme of things. I hear a lot of FUD, and half truths about them. The biggest one is that they are not profitable, and that GE is pressuring them,etc. etc.. This is plain old FUD. They have been profitable the last 9 years.

Please read this article to understand what I mean

UNIVERSAL ARTICLE (http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/07/16/business/meyer.php)

After reading this, I realized "damn strange studio", and came to the conclusion that I dont think they will be going BD anytime soon, judging by how odd they do things. Its not just Ken G, a lot of Universal folks are "strange birds" when it comes to running things.

What specifically in that article is relevant to the discussion? The point of discussion is that if they desire high definition consumers they will have to go Blu. They are in the business to make money. But you believe what you wish.

Personally, I don’t care at all about interactivity because for me it just detracts from the film experience, per se. However, I can appreciate different strokes for different folks but, since we drifted slightly off-topic, may I ask your or someone else’s* thoughts on another *technical enhancement* which I think demonstrates more real world benefits to pure film enthusiasts than does interactivity.

I would ask this in the HD DVD forum(s) but I respect their neighborhood and don’t want to be a distraction to their preferred format enjoyment.

I don’t keep up with all this technical mumbo-jumbo too much but does anyone know if HD DVD has any movies with seamless branching either on the market or *announced as being in the works* ?

Or perhaps more pertinent to this thread, does Uni have any ?
Or maybe I’m getting ahead of myself here, is it confirmed beyond reasonable doubt that HD DVD can even do seamless branching and if so, is the difficulty level so high that in reality it would preclude its use for real world disc production so that the consumer may never see a title with this important feature anyway ?

*Any Blu-ray supporters can feel free to respond with impunity. :)
I am only a "spelling Nazi" to HD DVD supporters in the Blu-ray software forum.

I also don't care about interactivity. Now seamless braching is just the greatest feature IMO. The more versions of the movie we get, while keeping the theatrical cut. The better it is.

HD-DVD has no seamless branching title on the market now (so it's a 'no' for Universal too).

Due to bandwith limitations, it's much harder to implement it on HD-DVD than BD, but it's possible. As it's been pointed out, there's one title announced so far (maybe there's more but I don't know of yet).

What specifically in that article is relevant to the discussion? The point of discussion is that if they desire high definition consumers they will have to go Blu. They are in the business to make money. But you believe what you wish.

Wow so angry take a pill.

I am simply pointing out that one of the reasons cited for Uni going neutral is the fact that they are not making money. This is simply not true. I own BD as well, so if they do, they do. I am just saying there is a lot of wishfull thinking here, and Uni is a very strange company, and be ready for the suprise that they WONT go neutral anytime soon.

You know, Universal is an odd bird in the scheme of things. I hear a lot of FUD, and half truths about them. The biggest one is that they are not profitable, and that GE is pressuring them,etc. etc.. This is plain old FUD. They have been profitable the last 9 years.

Please read this article to understand what I mean

UNIVERSAL ARTICLE (http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/07/16/business/meyer.php)

After reading this, I realized "damn strange studio", and came to the conclusion that I dont think they will be going BD anytime soon, judging by how odd they do things. Its not just Ken G, a lot of Universal folks are "strange birds" when it comes to running things.

Universal is a strange duck. What share holder wants to invest in a company with a mission statement like:

"dedicated to mediocrity and the tough fight to the middle middle"

What do they do once they are at the middle? You cant just stay there. All businessess are either growing or declining.

Return to House on Haunted Hill has been announced to use seamless branching on both formats.
Hmm, Stacey I never heard of that film. :o
Did it, or is it planned to have a theatrical presentation ?

I am hoping this CEDIA Universal annouces format neutrality. I am sick of these small 'wins' - like Denon making an exclusive player or the XBOX 360 HDDVD player increasing sales- its all meaningless.

It all boils down to Universal. So with all of you folks with insider knowledge and ridiculous memories what is the word on the block about Universal and format neutrality?

The earlier I see format neutrality, the earlier I will see a larger collection of 50 gb discs dedicated to film only.

Universal feels about HD DVD as Sony does about BR so I think they will only go neutral when the other wins. Or Sony could be forced to go neutral by the European Union due to possible findings in its ongoing investigation of Sony and BDA.

Did it, or is it planned to have a theatrical presentation ?

I believe it is direct to video only. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Return_to_House_on_Haunted_Hill

BTW - efilm is losing a great asset shortly. Not sure if you know Nicholas or not.

Or Sony could be forced to go neutral by the European Union due to possible findings in its ongoing investigation of Sony and BDA.

You know, this is something I think is so unlikely, so unrealistic I really wonder why people bring it up like it's an actual possibility. Does anyone believe this would actually happen?

DVD Empires stats!

Format: Blu-Ray/ HD-DVD
Week:55.47%/ 44.53%
Month:62.65%/ 37.35%
Year: 61.78%/ 38.22%

Titles: 291/284
Studios:26/29

:rolleyes:

Shawn

DVD Empire numbers are a joke, you should really pay attention to the nielson numbers if you want to make a point.

You know, this is something I think is so unlikely, so unrealistic I really wonder why people bring it up like it's an actual possibility. Does anyone believe this would actually happen?

I guess you expected a format war? You expected HD DVD to hold its own against BDA? You expected Fox to stop releasing BD? You expected Sony to lose 2 billion plus dollars and counting with the PS3 while falling down to third place in the gaming world? You expected PS3 to lose many exclusive games due to its poor sales performance including halo 3?

And I'm sure you thought none of those were remotely possible. I'm taking you to Vegas after you pick the winning lottery numbers if you answer yes to all of those questions. The point is anything can happen and you'll only know about it after the fact.

I guess you expected a format war? You expected HD DVD to hold its own against BDA? You expected Fox to stop releasing BD? You expected Sony to lose 2 billion plus dollars and counting with the PS3 while falling down to third place in the gaming world? You expected PS3 to lose many exclusive games due to its poor sales performance including halo 3?

And I'm sure you thought none of those were remotely possible. I'm taking you to Vegas after you pick the winning lottery numbers if you answer yes to all of those questions. The point is anything can happen and you'll only know about it after the fact.

Halo3 and PS3, what the frack have you been drinking.

You know, this is something I think is so unlikely, so unrealistic I really wonder why people bring it up like it's an actual possibility. Does anyone believe this would actually happen?


the EU is not trying to waste their time. If they find something they have the power to make things very difficult for the BDA.

this is no offense to you or anyone on this board, but I find most american's, no little to nothing about Europe, its laws, or the European Union.

I sometimes wonder when people say the EU will have no effect if that is based mostly on BD fans not wanting it to have an effect, or based on the fact that the poster undertstand how the EU works and has exerience from things they have done in the past.

DVD Empire numbers are a joke, you should really pay attention to the nielson numbers if you want to make a point.

Aren't the Nielson numbers a joke. I mean if they don't include Best Buy, Wal-mart, Target, and a few other huge retailers than what does that leave?

I believe Craig Kornblau personally is a BIG proponent of the Jan. timeframe.
We shall see what transpires.
timeframe for what?

Aren't the Nielson numbers a joke. I mean if they don't include Best Buy, Wal-mart, Target, and a few other huge retailers than what does that leave?

Nope. While they dont include walmart and are not gospel, they are the closest number we have to showing the market.

Guys can spout dvdempire and amazon numbers all day long, but I put more stock in the Nielson numbers.

I also dont think wally worlds a huge player right now in HDDVD/BD sales anyways. The two I have contain the cruddiest selection on earth.

timeframe for what?
Hmm, are you trying to pull some info out of me ? :D
I simply meant he thinks (as some others do) that releasing alot of titles in Jan. is actually more profitable in the long run rather than doing so during the month of Dec.

Nope. While they dont include walmart and are not gospel, they are the closest number we have to showing the market.

Guys can spout dvdempire and amazon numbers all day long, but I put more stock in the Nielson numbers.

I also dont think wally worlds a huge player right now in HDDVD/BD sales anyways. The two I have contain the cruddiest selection on earth.

Yeah, but what I find interesting is that when you take in account all of the places Nielson does not include, that leaves not a single place that I (and many others) have bought a single movie.

Yeah, but what I find interesting is that when you take in account all of the places Nielson does not include, that leaves not a single place that I (and many others) have bought a single movie.

Heres my point:

Would you rather argue over numbers from one place (dvdempire/amazon) or a composite?

Get over the fact walmarts numbers arent out there. Why do you think most forums have a Nielson thread? Because its the best we have to go by. Most online articles will point to them also. Why? Once again its the best we have.

Everytime I see someone post dvdempire numbers or yapp on about how the disc is selling on amazon, i try and point them to Nielsen because its better than having one point of view.

dvdempire or :

http://www.videoscan.com/about.html

VideoScan and ACNielsen (a partnership since January 2000, and sister companies under the VNU banner since 2001) seamlessly integrate point-of-sale (POS) data collected by both companies to provide a comprehensive view of the VHS and DVD sell-through business.

Hmm, are you trying to pull some info out of me ?

: LOL :)
Of course if you're not sharing information you might have - You might as well not have it (except for you're own gratification of course);

ken

1.I guess you expected a format war? 2.You expected HD DVD to hold its own against BDA? 3. You expected Fox to stop releasing BD? 4.You expected Sony to lose 2 billion plus dollars and counting with the PS3 while falling down to third place in the gaming world? 5. You expected PS3 to lose many exclusive games due to its poor sales performance including halo 3?

And I'm sure you thought none of those were remotely possible. I'm taking you to Vegas after you pick the winning lottery numbers if you answer yes to all of those questions. The point is anything can happen and you'll only know about it after the fact.1. i think everybody expected a format war.

2. yes most expected hd-dvd was going to hold it's own since it was released earlier than blu ray and at the time had warner,paramount, and universal exclusive.

3. fox is very weary of piracy so for them to stop releasing movies after aacs was broken is not all that surprising.

4. anybody that knows anything about video games knew sony was going to lose billions launching the ps3 and that the price was going to hurt it and it would be an uphill battle against the xbox 360 since it had already been out a year.

5. again if you know anything about video games you would know that whoever is in first place usually gets the exclusives. also microsoft pays a ton of money for a lot of these exclusives so it ain't just about the ps3 being in 3rd place. microsoft owns halo 3 so i don't know where you got the idea that it ever had a chance to come to the ps3.

1. i think everybody expected a format war.

2. yes most expected hd-dvd was going to hold it's own since it was released earlier than blu ray and at the time had warner,paramount, and universal exclusive.

3. fox is very weary of piracy so for them to stop releasing movies after aacs was broken is not all that surprising.

4. anybody that knows anything about video games knew sony was going to lose billions launching the ps3 and that the price was going to hurt it and it would be an uphill battle against the xbox 360 since it had already been out a year.

5. again if you know anything about video games you would know that whoever is in first place usually gets the exclusives. also microsoft pays a ton of money for a lot of these exclusives so it ain't just about the ps3 being in 3rd place. microsoft owns halo 3 so i don't know where you got the idea that it ever had a chance to come to the ps3.

The questions if this was known BEFORE the fact and I doubt anybody knew the answer to ALL of my questions including you even though you've given it the ole college try.

Early numbers put it at the best August movie opening in history, with 71$ million plus in receipts already.

If this is a Universal property, its a nice shot to their bottom-line. I have read over and over they are profitable too, in press releases, so either there are some bad links out there, or the posters in this thread are wrong.

I will let someone else on here fight that particular fight, but Ultimatum is certainly turning out to be a nice property.

Early numbers put it at the best August movie opening in history, with 71$ million plus in receipts already.

If this is a Universal property, its a nice shot to their bottom-line. I have read over and over they are profitable too, in press releases, so either there are some bad links out there, or the posters in this thread are wrong.

I will let someone else on here fight that particular fight, but Ultimatum is certainly turning out to be a nice property.

i saw it today and its easily better then Casino Royal...easily. Its the best action movie in 2 years.

I would take The Bourne Ultimatum over any BD exclusive. In fact if I had the choice between all the Bourne series and all the BD tittles I own which I cant get on HD DVD I would choose the Bourne series.

Stats:

I asked this on another post as well.

HD DVD gets more "viewing" than Blue-ray on this forum on a regular basis. Why?
Right now as I type:

Blue-ray Players (81 viewing)
HD DVD Players (97 viewing)

Blue-ray software (104 viewing)
HD DVD software (177 viewing)

I have been looking at these numbers on this forum every day since
I purchased a Sony s300 Blue-ray player and a Toshiba A2 player.
I have not yet seen (in the last few weeks) more people viewing the Blue-ray
areas over the HD DVD areas of this forum. People are always viewing
HD DVD more than Blue-ray.
HD DVD seems far from getting over run by Blue-ray.

I am neutral but I do tend to get Blue-ray titles over the same HD DVD title.
The only reasons I purchased the A2 was the low price and for Universal titles.
The A2 plays SD DVDs much better as well so a second DVD player would have
been needed in my system anyway.

I can live with needing two machines to get everything.

Avery

If anything, Universal will probably just show off more advanced interactivity and internet features at CES 2008 - things which are not even supported by BD yet.

Universal should also state that all current Bluray players can't even take advantage of these features they have to buy new players that don't exist yet.

i saw it today and its easily better then Casino Royal...easily. Its the best action movie in 2 years.

I would take The Bourne Ultimatum over any BD exclusive. In fact if I had the choice between all the Bourne series and all the BD tittles I own which I cant get on HD DVD I would choose the Bourne series.

I agree 100% once Ultimatum comes out on HDDVD I will be picking up a brand new player to replace the xbox addon. Casino Royale is trash compared to Ultimatum, best action movie since.....well......Bourne Supremacy :)

I'll still take transformers as the best pure action film this decade. c'mon. and supremacy was the weak film of the three. ultimatum was better than casino royale but not supremacy or the first one.

BTW - efilm is loosing a great asset shortly. Not sure if you know Nicholas or not.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10698903&highlight=LUT#post10698903

The questions if this was known BEFORE the fact and I doubt anybody knew the answer to ALL of my questions including you even though you've given it the ole college try.

Stop talking out of your ass. You already gave away that you're clueless with the 'Halo 3 on PS3' thing. Now you're just weakly covering up.

: LOL :)
Of course if you're not sharing information you might have -
ken
Are you asking if I would share with you my best estimate as to when I think Uni will begin publishing in Blu-ray ?

Sincerely, and with all due respect, sorry but I will not.

I realize that the Blu-ray faithful in the Blu-ray software forum of AVS appreciate rock solid bleeding edge news (before official press announcements), which generally afterwards invariably gets mind f**ked to death by the red hoard but, at this juncture in time, I just don’t feel comfortable in making an educated guess with the background information and data I have now. I would respectfully rather keep my personal opinion of the matter to myself.

Why ?
Because I would prefer to wait and give you something later that you could pretty much hang your hat on before it becomes “official”. I really do enjoy reading some of the Blu-ray supporter guesses and estimates in the meantime because I think it is great fun, does little harm, and is certainly more relevant (as rlsmith indicates in a post above about some recent Variety article) than any ridiculous corollary threads estimating if/when Disney, Fox or Sony will go neutral. :rolleyes:

I will say this though…… if this thread doesn’t get locked due to an eventual red infestation and its resultant derailment and crash and burn, like with the recent Weinstein studio thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11206210&&#post11206210 on page 2 ? of the Blu-ray software forum), I’ll get back to you on this matter sometime between Thanksgiving and Christmas. I figure it will take me about that long to find me a porcelain deer costume in the backlot props warehouse to go on a secret stealth mission over to Uni to get the yea or nay word (true Blu supporters will understand what I mean by the porcelain deer costume).

But, not to worry, if this thread does get locked or peters out by then, I’ll post my findings on the Insiders Thread of forum.blu-ray.com .......................
http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=4988

Carry on. :)

Meanwhile.........It’s UCS for me. Does it UCS for you ?
Where is that dang video anyway, I can’t find it on my hard drive.
Little help please.

Thank god Universal made some $ with the new "Bourne" film. They lost a TON on "Evan Almighty"... Still hasn't hit 100 million, cost close to 200 million not even including marketing costs and is DOA overseas....

Example - Evan Almighty looks to LOSE more money than ALL of HDM's revenue to date. That might get GE to give Uni a look, but the $.50 they missed on HDM? Not even a blip.

I'm guessing re-evaluation will happen after the '07 holiday season or at the end of Uni's fiscal year (which is when?)

I always love how Evan Almighty is pulled out of the hat by the BD faithfull as a movie that tanked hard and made no money. Not true, one only has to look in the Sony backyard to look for the biggest money loosing stinker in recent memory.


Final Fantasy

With a production budget reported at $140 million, its final domestic tally of $32 million was beyond dismal.

i saw it today and its easily better then Casino Royal...easily. Its the best action movie in 2 years.

I would take The Bourne Ultimatum over any BD exclusive. In fact if I had the choice between all the Bourne series and all the BD tittles I own which I cant get on HD DVD I would choose the Bourne series.


This post is about as good as the guy that said hed rather have knocked up than spiderman :rolleyes: .

Even on the BD forums at AVS you get HDDVD posters, and the mods wonder why there are always problems.

I know since you guys dont have anything coming from Universal you feel a little dry, but dont go trying to make Bourne what it aint.

Bourne Ultimatum was more enjoyable than Casino Royale, for me at least.

This post is about as good as the guy that said hed rather have knocked up than spiderman :rolleyes: .

Even on the BD forums at AVS you get HDDVD posters, and the mods wonder why there are always problems.

I know since you guys dont have anything coming from Universal you feel a little dry, but dont go trying to make Bourne what it aint.

Its an opinion, so how exactly is he wrong with such a subjective subject?

Bourn Identity is a fantastic movie. I enjoyed Siderman, but it isn't anywhere near as good as the Bourne Identity.

I own an HD DVD player (HD A1) but since buying my PS3 I grew to enjoy the Blu-ray experience much more. I changed my point of view and now believe that a single format would be more beneficial for consumers and the future of high definition.



I own both and its rather obvious they are equal in the quality department as far as picture quality goes and I'm not much of a sound person so if one or the other is ahead in that department I really wouldn't know. The extra features on the 300 disc are things I actually enjoy and I've never been the kind of person to actually check out the extras at length until now. I enjoy both about the same with a slight nod to HD-DVD because of my favorite movie The Thing being on that format and those extras on the 300 disc are a nice feature. I'm 100% behind two formats making it and all the great things that come with competition such as disc for $15 and players for under $200.

Bourn Identity is a fantastic movie. I enjoyed Siderman, but it isn't anywhere near as good as the Bourne Identity.

Matter of opinion really. I would side with Bourne also but I know plenty that would pick Spiderman.

I enjoyed Bourne for its action scenes but Spiderman 3 more for its humanity and characters.

The goal of a company is to generate maximum revenue for its share holders. All universal shareholders (GE) should band together and file a class action law suite against Universal. It is clear that the company is dropping the ball when it comes to generating maximum profit in a big way.

The goal of a company is to generate maximum revenue for its share holders. All universal shareholders (GE) should band together and file a class action law suite against Universal. It is clear that the company is dropping the ball when it comes to generating maximum profit in a big way.

That can go both ways.

Bourne Ultimatum was more enjoyable than Casino Royale, for me at least.

This post I can believe.


Its an opinion, so how exactly is he wrong with such a subjective subject?

Because what some people spew as opinion tends to sound ludicrous, therefore making you think they are probably someone that does not belong on the Blu forum in the first place.

Sahreholders care about shareholder value - stock price. NOT revenue. Supporting BD is unlikely to effect the value of GE stock.

What specifically in that article is relevant to the discussion? The point of discussion is that if they desire high definition consumers they will have to go Blu. They are in the business to make money. But you believe what you wish.

Universal is iconoclastic which is what the article shows. It clearly shows you are not dealing with a typical make all the money anyway you can studio mentality when dealing with them. Which means they are less likely to bow and cave to neutrality than say Lionsgate, Fox or Disney. But you would know that had you given the article a fair reading.

I think what I cant understand is why Universal of all people went neutral. They are #6 out of 6 majors in money, itd seem like to me the rational thought would be to make as much as you can.

I could see Disney/WB/Paramount being exclusive because theyve got deeper pockets.

Even though I dont care for HDDVD, Id soon all of them go neutral. If I owned a studio, Id release my movies on whatever formats were selling.

Universal is iconoclastic which is what the article shows. It clearly shows you are not dealing with a typical make all the money anyway you can studio mentality when dealing with them. Which means they are less likely to bow and cave to neutrality than say Lionsgate, Fox or Disney. But you would know that had you given the article a fair reading.


Thats giving them too much credit. I think Universal is still PO'd because they sued Sony and lost during betamax/vhs.

Universal is gonna be iconclastic into the red ink.

Thats giving them too much credit. I think Universal is still PO'd because they sued Sony and lost during betamax/vhs.

Universal is gonna be iconclastic into the red ink.

Don't forget about the UMD disaster. Universal was the first to pull out of that one.

Don't forget about the UMD disaster. Universal was the first to pull out of that one.

True.

I own both and its rather obvious they are equal in the quality department as far as picture quality goes and I'm not much of a sound person so if one or the other is ahead in that department I really wouldn't know. The extra features on the 300 disc are things I actually enjoy and I've never been the kind of person to actually check out the extras at length until now. I enjoy both about the same with a slight nod to HD-DVD because of my favorite movie The Thing being on that format and those extras on the 300 disc are a nice feature. I'm 100% behind two formats making it and all the great things that come with competition such as disc for $15 and players for under $200.

why can't ppl understand that we do not need 2 formats to encourage disc and players prices dropping? have we not learned anything from DVDs? DVDs came out w/o any competition, and since launch prices have been falling steadily. by most of the ppl's opinion of competition promoting lower pricing, DVDs should still cost over $20 per movie and $300 for players.

also, my opinion on what you say about audio and extras. here's the difference in my view:
1. BD may not have the extras that HD-DVDs have now, but it's in the works and will be active before the end of this year. while some current players may not be able to implement them, majority of BD owners (PS3 as their player) will be able to via firmware updates.
2. HD-DVD's capacity is most likely the limiting factor in its lack of lossless audio tracks. if this is to be the case there isn't anything it can do to implement it without lowering bitrate on video or cutting out the extras.

HD-DVD's capacity is most likely the limiting factor in its lack of lossless audio tracks. if this is to be the case there isn't anything it can do to implement it without lowering bitrate on video or cutting out the extras.

The HD DVD TL51 would change the equation wouldn't you agree?

The HD DVD TL51 would change the equation wouldn't you agree?

yes i would, problem with that is i had also heard current HD-DVD player won't be able to play those discs. if true it would toss out that whole "finalized spec" issue the HD-DVD supporters keep throwing at us. what would cost of replication be for these new discs if they ever become a reality?

also, will the TL51 discs have a higher max bitrate cap?

yes i would, problem with that is i had also heard current HD-DVD player won't be able to play those discs. if true it would toss out that whole "finalized spec" issue the HD-DVD supporters keep throwing at us. what would cost of replication be for these new discs if they ever become a reality?

also, will the TL51 discs have a higher max bitrate cap?

On the Insiders thread a few months ago Amir said that players already on the market would be able to play the TL51 discs and that the reading mechanisms spin rate would increase from 1x to 1.5x which would increase HD DVD's bitrate to I believe 49m/bit per second.

I think the whole goal of the project was literally one up Blu-ray specifications, 51 GB instead of 50 GB and 49m/bits per second instead of 48m/bits per second for blu-ray.

I think the whole goal of the project was literally one up Blu-ray specifications, 51 GB instead of 50 GB and 49m/bits per second instead of 48m/bits per second for blu-ray.

wow, literally 1-up. but the question remains whether it'd be too late to implement this and what the replication costs will be for the extra layer.

Iam trying to look up amir's quotes about the TL51 proposal. Here is the one about the spin rate.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10204158&highlight=TL51#post10204158

He goes into details and specifics in other posts which I will also try to find.

I think the whole goal of the project was literally one up Blu-ray specifications, 51 GB instead of 50 GB and 49m/bits per second instead of 48m/bits per second for blu-ray.

I'd say that, if this is true and the 51 GB discs are compatible with current players, we'll see some major announcements possibly at CEDIA and most definitely at CES. This would be another step towards putting HD-DVD on an even playing field with its competition.

On the Insiders thread a few months ago Amir said that players already on the market would be able to play the TL51 discs

This information is incorrect. There has been no such confirmation.

The HD DVD TL51 would change the equation wouldn't you agree?

TL51 hasn't even been produced in a lab. It's still just a theoretical white paper. Why is this getting traction again all of a sudden?

And an engineer from Toshiba was quoted late last year as saying he didn't think TL51 discs, if ever produced, would be compatible with current players. That was later hedged to say maybe with a firmware upgrade, but who knows.

TL51 hasn't even been produced in a lab. It's still just a theoretical white paper. Why is this getting traction again all of a sudden?

And an engineer from Toshiba was quoted late last year as saying he didn't think TL51 discs, if ever produced, would be compatible with current players. That was later hedged to say maybe with a firmware upgrade, but who knows.

And everyone continues to forget the 100gig BD's, so the TL51 wont one up anything.

And, I think the 100gig BD's probably wont work on current players either. Correct?

So HDDVD wil have a 51gig, and BD will have a 100, neither might do any of us any good right now.

And everyone continues to forget the 100gig BD's, so the TL51 wont one up anything.

And, I think the 100gig BD's probably wont work on current players either. Correct?

So HDDVD wil have a 51gig, and BD will have a 100, neither might do any of us any good right now.

Well, the 100 and 200 gig BDs were never intended for movie applications. They are strictly for data storage, so by design they won't work in players.

Well, the 100 and 200 gig BDs were never intended for movie applications. They are strictly for data storage, so by design they won't work in players.

Thanks, did not know the 100 was only for data.

TL51 hasn't even been produced in a lab. It's still just a theoretical white paper. Why is this getting traction again all of a sudden?

And an engineer from Toshiba was quoted late last year as saying he didn't think TL51 discs, if ever produced, would be compatible with current players. That was later hedged to say maybe with a firmware upgrade, but who knows.

Actually the TL51 disc's were unveiled at CES January 2007. They have been produced and an Toshiba demonstrated that they do work. Its just pending the approval of the DVD FORUM.

http://www.toshiba.co.jp/about/press/2007_01/pr0801.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_DVD#Ongoing_development

http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/28/51gb-hd-dvd-disc-gets-official/2

OK, I stand corrected. The last I had heard this was still a theoretical exercise.

Has it actually been submitted to the DVD Forum yet for approval?

I googled and poked around the DVD Forum website but there's no recent information at all about triple layer, and nothing about it having been submitted.

I own both and its rather obvious they are equal in the quality department as far as picture quality goes and I'm not much of a sound person so if one or the other is ahead in that department I really wouldn't know. The extra features on the 300 disc are things I actually enjoy and I've never been the kind of person to actually check out the extras at length until now. I enjoy both about the same with a slight nod to HD-DVD because of my favorite movie The Thing being on that format and those extras on the 300 disc are a nice feature. I'm 100% behind two formats making it and all the great things that come with competition such as disc for $15 and players for under $200.

I agree with what you have stated except that I had run into a few instances of lock ups and skips on a number of the last HD DVDs I purchased. I had kept updated on all the firmware. There hasn't been one hiccup with the PS3. It operates as smoothly as a top notch DVD player. I also do not like dual-sided discs. I did not buy into high definition to pay extra for a standard format movie that I already sold on Ebay. It is a BIG format killer for me and my tastes. So when I talk about my experience, I am not talking about HD DVD's ability to produce stunning audio and video. I just prefer Blu-ray and I want it to ultimately reign supreme. I'll buy "The Thing" when Universal goes neutral.

OK, I stand corrected. The last I had heard this was still a theoretical exercise.

Has it actually been submitted to the DVD Forum yet for approval?

I googled and poked around the DVD Forum website but there's no recent information at all about triple layer, and nothing about it having been submitted.


Iam really not sure I have read in a lot of forums that it was submitted. Iam not sure if I trust those people. I didnt find any concrete sources. So I would most likely say no.

Universal is gonna be iconclastic into the red ink.

This is just plain incorrect. READ the article I linked. They have been profitable for 9 years straight. I have never seen so many myths in my life. They dont chase the big projects like other studios, and they go after mid tier movies. When you read the story, you will understand why Uni will not go neutral anytime soon.

This post is about as good as the guy that said hed rather have knocked up than spiderman :rolleyes: .

Even on the BD forums at AVS you get HDDVD posters, and the mods wonder why there are always problems.

I know since you guys dont have anything coming from Universal you feel a little dry, but dont go trying to make Bourne what it aint.

i own both foramts...and my post 100% honest (and accurate). Sorry if it didnt happen to favor your format of choice.

This post is about as good as the guy that said hed rather have knocked up than spiderman :rolleyes: .

Even on the BD forums at AVS you get HDDVD posters, and the mods wonder why there are always problems.

I realize this is off-topic and I don’t want to derail this thread but it seems this issue is of some current overall importance as apparently markrubin started a thread somewhere about saving the AVS forum (from itself) or what not, and now that thread’s closed so these are my thoughts hopefully to keep people here - who should be here - on this thread, and dissuade others that shouldn’t be here to begin with.

I don’t understand what the difficulty is as to why they are having so many problems here with this forum that I once loved dearly and now seems to have become the Iran of the format war.

I mean man, just take the bull by the horns. Follow your own credo here and ENFORCE it…………

“Blu-ray Software
This area covers Blu-ray software. If you are not here for Blu-ray, move on”

from -
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=148

To me, “If you are not here for Blu-ray, move on” implies that if you are NOT a Blu-ray SUPPORTER move on. Simple.

And OWNERSHIP (of a Blu-ray player and/or Blu-ray movies) does not qualify as a SUPPORTER of the format. It simply means that you may be a film aficionado and you may hate Blu-ray but you just gots to watch your favorite movies because they just aint available on the competing format.

One can’t buy one’s way in to qualify as a “supporter”. Hell, I own two cars (one of which is a Mercedes) and there is no way on God’s Earth that you could call me a “supporter” of that factory. I drive it now cause I’m stuck with it.

“Supporter” to me is more clearly defined by past words and deeds, and if the words are of public record, the better.

B.T.W., this is by no means intended as a stab at anyone here in particular (esp. Vancouver, whom I know nothing about), as I am not familiar with everyone’s past posting history which to me, is the best evidence of whether “If you are not here for Blu-ray, move on” is applicable to the particular individual.

TL51 hasn't even been produced in a lab. It's still just a theoretical white paper. Why is this getting traction again all of a sudden?

And an engineer from Toshiba was quoted late last year as saying he didn't think TL51 discs, if ever produced, would be compatible with current players. That was later hedged to say maybe with a firmware upgrade, but who knows.
Actually if you’re referring to the same Toshiba engineer (NOT Marketing V.P.) that I’m also thinking of - when queried, I am positive that he was reported as saying that it would be "highly unlikely" that current Toshiba players could play triple layer movies even with a firmware upgrade.

I mean man, just take the bull by the horns. Follow your own credo here and ENFORCE it…………

“Blu-ray Software
This area covers Blu-ray software. If you are not here for Blu-ray, move on”

from -
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=148

To me, “If you are not here for Blu-ray, move on” implies that if you are NOT a Blu-ray SUPPORTER move on. Simple.

And OWNERSHIP (of a Blu-ray player and/or Blu-ray movies) does not qualify as a SUPPORTER of the format. It simply means that you may be a film aficionado and you may hate Blu-ray but you just gots to watch your favorite movies because they just aint available on the competing format.



Great statement Penton, I very much agree with this part of it.

There are too many HDDVD guys hanging out on BD forums and vice versa. All this does is cause issue and send threads off track.

Then you have the guys that own both but favor one, these guys should stick mostly in the forum that they favor. Ive noticed a few on this thread that own both but are obviosuly HDDVD supporters and make inciting comments.

This is the main reason I spend most of my time at blu-ray.com forums.

Penton-Man

I support blue ray by buying blue ray movies and owning a blue ray player.

This section reads "If you are not here for Blu-ray, move on.",

NOT

"If you are not here to only post good things for Blu-ray, move on."

Ill post the good and bad about Blu Ray here, and my opinions based my experience owning a blu ray player, and buying blu ray movies.

Posting something criticle about blu ray does not mean you are "taking the low road". Posting a personal attack about persons post becuase they posted something which puts down your format of choice is "taking the low road."

i own both foramts...and my post 100% honest (and accurate). Sorry if it didnt happen to favor your format of choice.

Honest maybe, but since when is opinion accurate.

My reply was probably a little hard, I concede that.

Honest maybe, but since when is opinion accurate.

My reply was probably a little hard, I concede that.

The fact that you said your post was a little hard and you conceded that makes you in the top 1% on AVS IMHO. Very few would admit that.

You are right that my opinion was probably not "accurate".

My reply was also hard, and less based on your post, more based on me becoming a worse member at AVS since the "war" started.

This is part of the problem. So many jump between to bash the other, you dont know who is being honest and who is taking a shot.

I guess as with other forums, Ill start keeping an eye on which posters have a good manner, and start putting the rest on ignore :)

Penton-Man

I support blue ray by buying blue ray movies and owning a blue ray player.

This section reads "If you are not here for Blu-ray, move on.",

NOT

"If you are not here to only post good things for Blu-ray, move on."

Ill post the good and bad about Blu Ray here, and my opinions based my experience owning a blu ray player, and buying blu ray movies.

Posting something criticle about blu ray does not mean you are "taking the low road". Posting a personal attack about persons post becuase they posted something which puts down your format of choice is "taking the low road."

AMEN brother!

I own both, but favor HDDVD, but dont tell me I have to follow the blu line, or else get out. I have suggestions,questions,challenges regarding blu, so this is more than the correct forum for such topics. Now if I did not own a blu player, I would understand the whole "get out of here" mentality.

AMEN brother!

I own both, but favor HDDVD, but dont tell me I have to follow the blu line, or else get out. I have suggestions,questions,challenges regarding blu, so this is more than the correct forum for such. Now if I did not own a blu player, I would understand the whole "get out of here" comment.

I dont think you need to follow the line if it can be decent discussion.

Many just bash, and then when called on it their crutch reply is "I own both so I can say whatever I want". If I owned a A2 along with my PS3 and went to the HDDVD forum and just made plain derogatory or ludicrous comments, its wrong because owning both does not give me that right. Especially not in the other guys house.

Not saying you do that, but thats what we are dealing with. Theres a proper way to say everything, and when you say it wrongly, you should own up to the fact you overstepped your bounds.

I dont think you need to follow the line if it can be decent discussion.

Many just bash, and then when called on it their crutch reply is "I own both so I can say whatever I want". If I owned a A2 along with my PS3 and went to the HDDVD forum and just made plain derogatory or ludicrous comments, its wrong because owning both does not give me that right. Especially not in the other guys house.

Not saying you do that, but thats what we are dealing with. Theres a proper way to say everything, and when you say it wrongly, you should own up to the fact you overstepped your bounds.

I concure, that does happen.

But you have to admit, something else disturbing happens. If you dont tow the line in a certain forum, you get nailed. You can be as civil as you want, and it wont make a difference. Look at the poor guy that has legit concerns about BD authoring, and creating movies. It was a civil thread, and some BD folks pulled the "How dare you be critical of BD!!", and just refused to consider his concerns.

I concure, that does happen.

But you have to admit, something else disturbing happens. If you dont tow the line in a certain forum, you get nailed. You can be as civil as you want, and it wont make a difference. Look at the poor guy that has legit concerns about BD authoring, and creating movies. It was a civil thread, and some BD folks pulled the "How dare you be critical of BD!!", and just refused to consider his concerns.

I agree.

We all need to work at setting example and ignoring those that dont. If you own the format, you should be able to make statements against (sane statements at least) said format.

Ive just about decieded to not even venture into the shared forum at any site, because all it is now is complaining. I want to hang in the BD forums and discuss BD without drama.

I have never been one to do it, but I just may start reporting posts that I normally would have argued over. Lifes too short, it aint worth it.

I concure, that does happen.

But you have to admit, something else disturbing happens. If you dont tow the line in a certain forum, you get nailed. You can be as civil as you want, and it wont make a difference. Look at the poor guy that has legit concerns about BD authoring, and creating movies. It was a civil thread, and some BD folks pulled the "How dare you be critical of BD!!", and just refused to consider his concerns.

Absolutely true and a fair read of that thread reveals that, unless you have a uncontrollable blu bias.

Penton-Man

I support blue ray by buying blue ray movies and owning a blue ray player.

This section reads "If you are not here for Blu-ray, move on.",

NOT

"If you are not here to only post good things for Blu-ray, move on."

Ill post the good and bad about Blu Ray here, and my opinions based my experience owning a blu ray player, and buying blu ray movies.

I understand that but, listen if you are indeed sincere about this. As I said, I was not referring to you because I’m not familiar with your past posting history.

forum.blu-ray.com doesn’t have the same problems as the wasteland AVS has become and people post “good and bad about Blu Ray” there, hell just read the last 3 pages or so of the Insider’s Thread there. But we don’t have perpetual troublemakers there. They get the boot and fast. Hell, I’d kick out anybody that displayed the characteristics of just an anti-social personality disorder (whether he liked or hated Blu-ray) because someone like that just annoys the hell out of everybody else on the forum, and actually somebody comes to mind that fits that criteria recently.

I’m talking about the posters that have a LONG history of an intended HD DVD bias and anti-Blu-ray stance and make it their personal mission in life to knock down whatever good is said in the Blu-ray software forum here. You can go back into the archives and see the same damn people doing the same nonsense as they are today.

It doesn’t take an advanced degree in logic.
There is a pattern, a persistent pattern.
And these people subtlety or overtly degrade every strength or vastly overemphasize every weakness of the Blu-ray format that they can, whenever they can, being careful to just glide inside the rules without making an overt mistake to get them “banned” like some sort of physical threat or what not.

And those that do get banned come back under different aliases and are allowed to continue to post until they make their next fatal mistake.

The process aint working here and hasn’t been so for a long time.
I prefer not to say anymore on it because this is my second post on the matter and it has nothing to do with the original topic.

I agree.

We all need to work at setting example and ignoring those that dont. If you own the format, you should be able to make statements against (sane statements at least) said format.

Ive just about decieded to not even venture into the shared forum at any site, because all it is now is complaining. I want to hang in the BD forums and discuss BD without drama.

I have never been one to do it, but I just may start reporting posts that I normally would have argued over. Lifes too short, it aint worth it.

I dont think you can get away from Drama in ANY forum :D

Owning both can be a pain, because any comment I make can easily turn into a "You fanboy" flame. I prefer that HDDVD win, but I have questioned the logic of many an HDDVD fanboy, and get called a Blu Fan boy, :confused: LOL cant win.

forum.blu-ray.com doesn’t have the same problems as the wasteland AVS has become and people post “good and bad about Blu Ray” there, hell just read the last 3 pages or so of the Insider’s Thread there. But we don’t have perpetual troublemakers there. They get the boot and fast. Hell, I’d kick out anybody that displayed the characteristics of just an anti-social personality disorder (whether he liked or hated Blu-ray) because someone like that just annoys the hell out of everybody else on the forum, and actually somebody comes to mind that fits that criteria recently.

Untrue, I started a thread there with the true sales figures of the PS3 vs. the Wii, I had links to every sales figures in all my posts, instead of folks posting why the Wii is beating the PS3 in sales, I was attacked over and over again, and yet I was the one who they banned, someone who owns two PS3s ( upstairs and downstairs ) and has more then 50 BR discs.


And those that do get banned come back under different aliases and are allowed to continue to post until they make their next fatal mistake.

Again untrue, I responded to a thread ( in the general forum, not the HD DVD rant thread) over there that kept going on and on about all of Universal's recent releases were garbage and all the new ones for BR are great, I posted that not all are icky, some are and some are not, then I brought up how bad Dirty Dancing was....banned again, I sorry but I believe in truth, if it was not for the folks that will not except the best, then things like the Fifth Element would never have been fixed.[/QUOTE]

I posted that not all are icky..........
Then you should indeed be gratified when Uni eventually goes neutral. :D

B.T.W., what's your best guess ?

i have been to forum.blu-ray.com :)
Good for you. :)

B.T.W., what's your best guess ?
The time it takes to run the perimeter of Stanley Park ?

Then you should indeed be gratified when Uni eventually goes neutral. :D

B.T.W., what's your best guess ?

No guess from me ( and since I have both formats, don't really care ), when will Fox start putting out BR disc again ( that I care about, Fox is my #1 favorite studio, main reason why I bought into Blu Ray)?

Good for you. :)

B.T.W., what's your best guess ?
The time it takes to run the perimeter of Stanley Park ?

Personally I think Universal will go neutral when the BD spec is finalized and all the IME ready to go. I wouldnt argue with anyone who said Q1 of 2008. So about half the time it takes me to run Stanley Park.

Thats my best guess.

**one other thing I forgat needs to happen before Uni goes neutral. BD players will have to be at $200 or less.

I feel like Universal will ask Ken Graffeo to resign before the end of ther year! Then go neutral!

anyone else find it ironic the most popular thread in the BR software forum is about a Studio that makes no BR software?

anyone else find it ironic the most popular thread in the BR software forum is about a Studio that makes no BR software?
Actually it’s all about predicting when the killing blow to HD DVD will be dealt or.......... by extension when dogs and cats will live together and eventually AVS forum peace. :)

Thought that was intuitive.
But yes, I appreciate the indirect irony. :)

No guess from me ( and since I have both formats, don't really care ), when will Fox start putting out BR disc again ( that I care about, Fox is my #1 favorite studio, main reason why I bought into Blu Ray)?
Well you've got to step up to the plate and give a guess..........any guess.
Don't be a Kill-Joy.

In regards to Fox..............
I’m workin on it. It's a tough nut to crack to say the least.
Scroll down to post # 1765.

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=4988&page=89

Quote:
Originally Posted by sspears
BTW - efilm is loosing a great asset shortly. Not sure if you know Nicholas or not.


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/show...UT#post10698903

Yep, should have been "losing", d'oh!

Ask him about the time he held the door open for Kate while working on Click. ;)

posted at Boxoffice.com:
http://www.boxoffice.com/newsDetail.aspx?newsId=%20249


"Paramount announced yesterday that it has done $1 billion in businesses at foreign box offices in 2007, joining Disney, Fox, Sony and Warner Bros. and marking the first time that five studios have passed that milestone in a calendar year. Lagging behind is the sixth member of the Motion Picture Association, Universal, which has tallied $404 million so far. —Chad Greene"

ken

Yep, should have been "losing", d'oh!

Ask him about the time he held the door open for Kate while working on Click. ;)
I like you Stacey. :)

I think you still remain the only uncorrupted Microsoft Redmond employee (that I’m aware of) that posts on this forum.
I truly wish you had been here from the beginning rather than *that other guy*.
I think this place would have been much better for it.

If people here didn’t understand my previous Apocalypso link, I was referring to the fact that "Nicholas" was present on the set of said shoot and EFilm did the “LUTs”. :)

posted at Boxoffice.com:
http://www.boxoffice.com/newsDetail.aspx?newsId=%20249


"Paramount announced yesterday that it has done $1 billion in businesses at foreign box offices in 2007, joining Disney, Fox, Sony and Warner Bros. and marking the first time that five studios have passed that milestone in a calendar year. Lagging behind is the sixth member of the Motion Picture Association, Universal, which has tallied $404 million so far. —Chad Greene"

ken
the above ^ happens “If we don’t keep up with the times”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqMV90pnsZ4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oHcMZdoQwE&mode=related&search

Stats:

I asked this on another post as well.

HD DVD gets more "viewing" than Blue-ray on this forum on a regular basis. Why?
Right now as I type:

Blue-ray Players (81 viewing)
HD DVD Players (97 viewing)

Blue-ray software (104 viewing)
HD DVD software (177 viewing)

I have been looking at these numbers on this forum every day since
I purchased a Sony s300 Blue-ray player and a Toshiba A2 player.
I have not yet seen (in the last few weeks) more people viewing the Blue-ray
areas over the HD DVD areas of this forum. People are always viewing
HD DVD more than Blue-ray.
HD DVD seems far from getting over run by Blue-ray.
Who puts out more effort?
Who puts out more noise?
The guys on the boat or the guys overboard?
It's all about basic human psychology...

I think I lost IQ points reading that bit of psychobabble.

I always love how Evan Almighty is pulled out of the hat by the BD faithfull as a movie that tanked hard and made no money. Not true, one only has to look in the Sony backyard to look for the biggest money loosing stinker in recent memory.

Final Fantasy

With a production budget reported at $140 million, its final domestic tally of $32 million was beyond dismal.
I love how the Red Boys come over to the BD Forum to deflect attention away from the Blockbuster of the Year (Evan Almighty) by bringing up a Sony movie released SIX years ago (Final Fantasy).

I’m talking about the posters that have a LONG history of an intended HD DVD bias and anti-Blu-ray stance and make it their personal mission in life to knock down whatever good is said in the Blu-ray software forum here. You can go back into the archives and see the same damn people doing the same nonsense as they are today.

It doesn’t take an advanced degree in logic.
There is a pattern, a persistent pattern.
And these people subtlety or overtly degrade every strength or vastly overemphasize every weakness of the Blu-ray format that they can, whenever they can, being careful to just glide inside the rules without making an overt mistake to get them “banned” like some sort of physical threat or what not.
Amen.
You oughta see my AVS Ignore List. ;)

I think I lost IQ points reading that bit of psychobabble.
Doktor Freud can be dense... :D

I don't know what it is but I have a feeling of deja vu....ouh, ouh, ouh, I heard it in a song,,,it's the year 2525 when Universal somethin' happens, definitely, maybe? ;)

Universal will announce Format neutrality when Sony and Fox makes similar announcement.

Universal will announce Format neutrality when Sony and Fox makes similar announcement.

You have to wonder if the lot actually have any talks or negotiations...??? After their little public tiffs, maybe not?

My prediction is IF you can find a BD player for less than an HD player...Universal may have something to worry about. But for what ever reason I don't see that happening anytime soon. Also, HD DVD sales are on the rise...with a cheaper players and a fair number of movies out...
As for me, to spend $600 bucks on a PS3 that has a poor selection of games only to use it as a BD player...sorry I'll pass.
I really don't care who wins this HD thing, I'm not spending a ton of money on it. It is funny how so many people are getting so emotional about it. I guess if I had a couple of grand invested I might feel different, but I don't. I did get into the HD thing for as little as I could and if one format goes...oh well.

My prediction is IF you can find a BD player for less than an HD player...Universal may have something to worry about.If Toshiba isn't pricing their standalone players lower (and there isn't another HD DVD manufacturer doing that) then they might as well quit. They have to be lower. At even close to the same price they would be in trouble. And that will continue to be the case unless something else major changes (like they get some Blu-ray exclusive studios to go neutral). I know some people really appreciate Toshiba pricing their players lower, but they don't really have much of a choice right now (unless they don't care about winning).

--Darin

My prediction is IF you can find a BD player for less than an HD player...Universal may have something to worry about. But for what ever reason I don't see that happening anytime soon. Also, HD DVD sales are on the rise...with a cheaper players and a fair number of movies out...
As for me, to spend $600 bucks on a PS3 that has a poor selection of games only to use it as a BD player...sorry I'll pass.
I really don't care who wins this HD thing, I'm not spending a ton of money on it. It is funny how so many people are getting so emotional about it. I guess if I had a couple of grand invested I might feel different, but I don't. I did get into the HD thing for as little as I could and if one format goes...oh well.

First, it's only $499. Second, for that you get a Blu-Ray player, a very good DVD upconverter, and the ability to stream from media servers. That's forgetting about games and forgetting about anything else they may be adding over the next few months. Its a great deal.

It's amazing that people spend so much on a good TV then worry about a couple of hundred dollars when it comes to buying things to take advantage of the TV.