OK, having just read Cathan's post about yet another person asking which software should be used for theater design, I'm going to propose that we start a FAQ to try and get some of these repetitive questions out of the way. I know that people on here spend a lot of their time posting answers to questions that are asked again and again, and that time could be better spent answering questions that haven't been asked again and again. So...

I propose we start a thread devoted to the AVSForum FAQ. I'll volunteer my time to manage it if people are in agreement. We can come up with a list of common questions and then answer them. If there are differences in opinion as to the 'correct' answer I'll be glad to include all the answers to that question. Perhaps we could convince the moderators to make it a sticky when we agree it's at a point where we're happy with it.

Then, when people ask questions we can direct them to the FAQ rather that waste bandwidth and our time answering them over and over again.

Does that sound feasible? Am I forgetting anything? I'm open to other ideas if folks have them.

Thanks!

-drin

I think that could work if it were a sticky thread. There could also be links to threads where a certain subject was discussed in depth for the people that cant find what there looking for with the search feature.

I like the idea. A sticky would be great for this. make it so no one (except mods, etc..) can reply to it so it won't get filled with junk.

I also think we should have a sub forum here just for construction threads. Make it so the thread starts in the main forum and a mod can them move it to the construction thread. Make it so no threads can be started in there, but replies to threads are allowed (if that can be done). This way we can separate out design/build from general questions about build and construction.

Good idea, however, it would be important that the size of it get limited to some extent (by you or moderator). As I have said previously, there is a forum paradox that exist: the longer the thread gets the more useless it becomes.

I think this is the model to follow, thread starter stays involved, editing the first (few) post(s), and discussion (sometimes OT) and refinements in the discussion below.

See what some of the HTPC FAQs do.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=465419

That said, these things tend to peter out when they come up. I'll look forward to Drin harrassing people to "use search AND read the FAQ" if this takes life.

Excellent idea!

I am fairly new to this addiction we all have called home theaters but I think that it should be broken down, however the HT gurus determine, into common areas like rgroves stated. This way if a newb needs to understand the basics of construction he/she doesn't have to become confused weeding through the FAQ's of anamorphic lens...make sense?

I will definetly be one of the ones that benefit from some of these FAQ's.

I'll look forward to Drin harrassing people to "use search AND read the FAQ" if this takes life.

Somebody has to do it, right? :)

-drin

I have often thought that there should be separate stickies for the common items: stages, risers, coloumns, wiring, HVAC, sound isolation, GOM...etc.. Each separate sticky would be a basic facts page with links added to the archives.
Go for it!

Bill

Separate stickies may be too much, but what I've seen on other forums is one sticky with a little high-level discussion and then lots of links out to other (non-sticky) threads. No one wants to see 8 actual sticky threads on the first page of every forum...

Great idea.

If a locked sticky was used the 'moderator' of that sticky could use a post per subject and use 1st post as an index.

There have been some great threads like 'show us your screen' wall that IF it had remained just showing screen walls would have been great......but alas someone always starts asking questions etc.......so for a FAQ sticky to work it really needs to be locked to a few individuals. Suggestions / corrections just get PM'd to the moderator.

I like the idea alot. But, as other FAQ stickies have proven, you can lead a horse to water, you just can't make him drink.

Here's the rub, we seem to have attracted a lot more of the non-hobbyist to AVS. The only downside (IMHO) is typcally a non-hobbyist is here to "be told" what to do...as opposed to learning the hobby. I think a majority of them would either ignore the FAQ (even when pointed out) or give it just a cursory glance...hence the horse and water saying. I think the only way to combat that is through strick/active mod support. Which in some cases means closing threads and asking members to review past threads linked or resurect old threads with specific questions added to those threads. I think that's tougher to do in this forum, as opposed to HD-DVD Software forum (where information is more cut and dry)

Many people will come here to be told what to do. However, when they are treated respectfully and patiently assisted by AVSForum members, that will often lead them to also become impatient over-informed-members that themselves become tired of asking noob questions over and over again. :)

Communication can't (yet anyway) be made instantaneous, unambiguous and closed to interpretation and there is always some effort required to teach others. That's the nature of the beast.

Just my 2 cents anyway! :D

Edit: Oh almost forgot to mention... we're all noobs in one AVSForum sub-forum or another. :o

Many people will come here to be told what to do. However, when they are treated respectfully and patiently assisted by AVSForum members, that will often lead them to also become impatient over-informed-members that themselves become tired of asking noob questions over and over again. :)

Communication can't (yet anyway) be made instantaneous, unambiguous and closed to interpretation and there is always some effort required to teach others. That's the nature of the beast.

Just my 2 cents anyway! :D

Edit: Oh almost forgot to mention... we're all noobs in one AVSForum sub-forum or another. :o

You are speaking the truth. I realize I was painting with a broad brush stroke. Having been a member here for the last 7 years...I just see this non-hobbyist/don't want to be a hobbyist segment of AVS growing vs 7 years ago. I also see it as getting larger, as the idea of having a "theater" in one's home grows and grows=becoming more common place.

I think a cord has to struck between the new members, who are hear to learn and those of us who have been around the block and get bored seeing generic commonly asked questions by new members who haven't made an effort to do any research. I think they have as much responsiblity to learn on their own, as we has members have to pass on the information we have learned.

Ron

Yes, well said and I agree completely that it requires a balance.

What I think you've put your finger on is the fact that HT has expanded beyond the enthusiast and is really starting to be picked up by the mainstream. The advantages of course include dropping prices on everything from projectors to HT building supplies and accessories. The disadvantages of course are as you outlined... more and more people stopping by with no intention of doing more than the absolute minimum to get their HT up and running. They want you to do the work for them...

I think all your points about cracking down a bit on the noob infestation are valid but I just wanted to remind everyone that everyone needs to be introduced to new hobbies at some point. For example I'm a relative noob (compared to most of you guys) when it comes to theater construction but I've answered the same HTPC and related software questions what seem like a thousand times... so I certainly can relate to what you're trying to do.

However, in further defense of noobs across the globe :) I have to say that sometimes it is us, the rabid enthusiast that contributes to the problem. As an exercise to demonstrate what I mean just select a sub-forum on AVSForum that you know almost nothing about. Let's say that happens to be the HTPC because you think you want to get into that... but you don't really even know what that means yet. Once you get there you dive in and make a concerted effort to learn. However, you quickly become confounded because the "regulars" forget that the noobs know none of the terminology and acronyms that they toss around ubiquitously.

So, imagine a noob stops in and legitimately tries to start learning by going through past threads. What the hell is this "GOM?" Hmm, what's a "riser?" A bass trap :confused: Wonder what the heck an AT screen is? Reflection points.. doh.

I think you're onto something with the FAQ (the HTPC forum happens to have a pretty good one) that concentrates on introducing the very basics that the rest of the community doesn't even think twice about as they go about their HT builds and corresponding build threads.

I know, most of that is common sense but it's easy to forget just how much background knowledge we all rely on to understand the discussion threads.

mnn1265:

A very well written thoughtful response. It's a nice reminder that information we assume is basic is advance to a new person. That's one reason, as you also pointed out, a FAQ in addition to maybe a terminology sticky would be helpfull to create a base of knowledge.

I recently changed my set up from 16x9 to a scope set up. The FAQ in the CIH forum was a terrific jumping off point...combine that with the use of the search engine and I had all the information I needed to take an educated leap to a new aspect ratio. In fact, one the best search results I got was using the terms, "noob" and "newbie"...the results produced terrific questions and answers that were similar to my own.

Ron

Personally I think some of you waste too much time worrying about what questions others are asking. The faqs are nice but they are so jumbled with unorganized information that a first time reader finds themselves lost very quickly.

Even when the great mighty drin asks a question on this forum that nobody else has ever asked, the answer to that question is probably available in his local library but nobody tells him to go look there before posting here. I say get over yourselves. You were here first, thats the 1 and ONLY reason you know the answers that they do not. If you like to use the search then use it. But stop preaching to everybody else!

Personally I think some of you waste too much time worrying about what questions others are asking. The faqs are nice but they are so jumbled with unorganized information that a first time reader finds themselves lost very quickly.

Even when the great mighty drin asks a question on this forum that nobody else has ever asked, the answer to that question is probably available in his local library but nobody tells him to go look there before posting here. I say get over yourselves. You were here first, thats the 1 and ONLY reason you know the answers that they do not. If you like to use the search then use it. But stop preaching to everybody else!

I think you get out of this hobby and this forum what you put into it. If you put in little effort, that's what you'll end up with in the end. But, I know my words fall on deaf ears. I've learned long ago you can't change ppl. So god bless you and best of luck in building your HT and the hobby in general.

Even when the great mighty drin asks a question on this forum that nobody else has ever asked, the answer to that question is probably available in his local library but nobody tells him to go look there before posting here. I say get over yourselves.

I'm stuck in Rhode Island. If it doesn't have to do with coffee or donuts it's not going to be in the local library.

If I come across as 'great mighty' that's for the exact reason that rboster stated - I get tired very quickly of people asking the same questions over and over again. In recent weeks there have been new question threads started within a week of the same question being answered exhaustively. That to me smacks of laziness - if someone wants to learn about theater design and construction that's one thing, but if they want advice they should go find an expert and pay them for that advice. Asking the same questions over and over again decreases the signal to noise ration in the forum and helps to push out those people who DO know what's going on because they get tired of the same noob questions over and over again.

If you like to use the search then use it. But stop preaching to everybody else!

You said the people who were here first know the answers because they were here first. If they know the answers, and they were here first, perhaps 'use the search feature' is the answer?

-drin

OK, so the majority of people who have responded feel a FAQ is in order. Since I started the ball (which will no doubt become a monstrosity) rolling, here's my draft of the first couple of questions I think any FAQ should answer. Questions, comments, additions, deletions and criticisms are welcome.

Please note: bold text indicates a question or a title (such as the forum name). Italicized text indicates an area where more information is needed/requested from forum members to help flesh out an answer.

---DRAFT---
Part 1. The Basics
1. What is this place?
You've stumbled on the Dedicated Theater Design & Construction forum on AV Science. This forum is intended for Do It Yourself (referred to hereafter as DIY) theater designers and builders. If you have a space in your basement/garage/attic/back yard that is sitting unused and you've been craving a real theater at home, this is a forum where you can learn about proper design and construction techniques for making that craving a reality.

2. Who frequents the forum?
The forum is populated primarily by amateurs, people who don't want to have to leave their homes to see movies, or love movies but are tired of the hassle associated with going to a movie theater. A few of the users are professional home theater designers, acoustical engineers and/or builders. These people include Dennis Erskine, Bryan Pape, Ethan Winer other professional names, anyone?. All of them are available for consultation privately should you so desire.

3. How does this forum work?
The forum is intended as an area where you can learn about home theater design and construction, ask questions of other members and get inspiration to help propel your theater closer to completion. There are a few general expectations of members:


Before you ask a question try searching insert reference to 'How do I search' for the answer first. The forum is a very powerful reference tool. This means that chances are if you have a question to ask it will have already been answered in here somewhere.
You're dreaming about, planning, or building a home theater. The forum is not an out-of-the-box solution to all of your home theater needs. You're expected to be either a DIY'er or someone who's hired a professional to design and build your theater. This means that if you show up on the forum with oine post to your name and announce (paraphrased of course) "I have a space in my basement that I think should be a theater - can someone answer every question I'll ever have?" you're likely to get a very cold shoulder. Would you walk into an auto shop and ask the mechanic to build you a car to fit into your garage for free? Of course not. Please don't do the same thing here. If you want to learn about home theater design and construction, welcome. If you want someone to build you a theater you're welcome as well, but expect to pay for that expertise.


4. OK, how do I search the forum?
There are two ways to search the forum:

a. From within AV Science itself.
When you're in the forum you'll see a white menu bar at the top of the list of threads. One of the items in this list is the word 'Search'. Click it to open a search window. Now click 'Advanced Search'. A search window will appear. Click in the text field under 'Key words:' and enter the terms you're interested in searching, with each keyword preceded by a '+' sign. For example, if you're interested in staggered stud walls enter '+staggered +stud +walls'.

Now move down to the 'Show Results As' field. If you want to see threads that include your search terms click 'Threads'. If you want to see only posts that contain all your terms click 'Posts'.

Finally, move to the right and scroll down the 'Search in Forum(s) panel. Since you're interested in design and construction select the Dedicated Theater Design & Construction line and then click the 'Search Now' button.

b. From Google.
To search the forum from Google, go to www.google.com. Enter your search term, followed by 'site:www.avsforum.com'. For example, to search on staggered stud walls, type 'staggered stud walls site:www.avsforum.com'. Please note: this search will search the entire AVSForum site, not just the design & construction forum.

---DRAFT---

As a person that has built three theaters, I think this would be a great idea. I can't think of how many hours I spent on the forums digging for answers. There is a home theater book that one of the forum member wrote that has these answers and more. It does not cost that much I recommend it.

As a person that has built three theaters, I think this would be a great idea. I can't think of how many hours I spent on the forums digging for answers. There is a home theater book that one of the forum member wrote that has these answers and more. It does not cost that much I recommend it.

I've heard this book mentioned before on the forums, but I've also seen posts that indicate it's really not very helpful. I don't know whether it is or not so I'll keep plugging away at the FAQ. :)

-drin

Comments, questions, additions and deletions welcome. If you feel like answering any of these questions, please feel free. I'll be glad to include your answer in the FAQ.

--- DRAFT ---

Part 2. Physical Design
1. Should I hire a designer to build my room?
2. How much does it cost to build a home theater?
3. How long does it take to build a home theater?
4. What should my theater dimensions be?
5. How big a screen can I have?
6. How many chairs can I fit in the room?
7. Where should I put the seats for the best audio?
8. What software can I use to design the room?
9. Do I need a riser/stage/proscenium wall?

Part 3. Sound isolation
1. What's sound isolation?
2. How do I isolate my theater from the rest of the house? HUGE topic

Walls
Ceiling
Floors
Doors
Windows
Electrical outlets
Ceiling lights


Part 4. Construction
1. Do I need a permit to build my theater?
2. My builder says I should should do it this way , that it is the way he has always done it and says it will be just fine, is it a good idea?
3. What should I do before I build the walls?
4. How do I build the walls?
5. How do I build the ceiling?
6. What about the doors and windows?
7. Riser, stage, proscenium?
8. What's a soffit? Why do I want one?
9. Columns - do I really need them?
10. Painting - what colors go where?
11. Where do I buy home theater seating?


Part 5. Video Component Design
1. Should I use a projector/plasma/LCD TV?
2. What sort of screen should I use?
3. Do I really need an AT screen?
4. What's an HTPC? Do I need one?
5. How do I provide surge protection to my projector?
6. What is fixed offset vs. lens shift?
7. Do I really need a $150 4 foot HDMI cable? (Or any other expensive cable?)



Part 6. Audio Component Design

1. What's all this about 5.1, 7.1, THX, DTS, etc.?
2. What sort of wiring do I need? What's in-wall rating?
3. How many speakers do I need?
4. Where do I mount the speakers?
5. Where should I put all of these black boxes?
6. Do I need a rack? How do I build and cool it?
7. What about all these remotes?



Part 7. Acoustic management
1. What's acoustic management?
2. What are acoustic absorption and diffusion?
3. What's a reflection point?
4. What's a bass trap?
5. How do I determine where I need acoustic absorption and diffusion?
6. How do I test for reflection points?

The mirror test
First Reflection Points software

7. Why wall panels?
8. How do I build and install wall panels?
9. Firring strips and fabric? What are these, why do I need them and where do I buy them?



Part 8. Lighting and Electrical Systems
1. Where do I put lights in the theater?
2. How about electrical wiring? Where does that go?
3. Do I need another breaker panel?
4. How do I put speaker wiring in the theater?
5. What's lighting automation all about?
6. How do I manage power spikes?

Part 9. HVAC
1. Do I need HVAC in my theater?
2. How do I size supply and return vents?
3. What kind of HVAC systems are available to me?
4. What is a zoning system?
5. What is a low ambient A/C kit?
6. How do I calculate the heat loss heat gain?
7. How do I determine the required air flow?
8. How many air changes do I need per hour?
9. Do I need fresh air?
10. How do I soundproof supply and return vents?
11. What do I have to do to make an oil furnace safe in an enclosed space?


Part 10. Miscellaneous4]
1. How do I post pictures of my theater on AVSForum?


--- DRAFT ---
-drin

Good outline. On the components section, for the love of god, no blu-ray vs HD-DVD! Actually, I'd just discuss basic display types, surround sound, and sources and encourage the people to take that research to the proper subforums.

If I get some time I might take a stab at writing a few pieces. I'll let you know.

Thanks Dave. On reflection I agree. Edited to reflect it.

And any help you can provide is much appreciated.

-drin

Changes:
- No part 1, two part 3's. ;)
- Part 4, add line item "floors" (not everybody's building in the basement)
- Part 6, add sub-topic "How many supplies/returns do I need?

Maybe sound isolation and acoustic management should be separate topics. That way, isolation could come before construction (i.e. you can't decide how to build your walls if you haven't decided whether you're doing RSIC, full room-within-a-room, just DD+GG, nothing, etc.

You could also break up the "component" topic and make it into two - source components and displays. That way, you can cover screens, screen sizes, throws, angles, AT, etc. all in a "displays" section.

drin - great idea, this FAQ. It'll be a ton of work, but should be a significant accomplishment if we can pull it off and will be a HUGE benefit to anybody just getting started. Between the FAQ, the HT book, and the forum, practically anybody should be able to get started designing and building (or hiring someone to do the same) and feel pretty confident about their decisions. Keep up the good work!

One suggestion to anybody who's writing for this thing: Keep the text as simple and concise as possible. That benefits the beginner who could easily suffer info overload, but also increases the likelihood that we can actually pull this off. Think "KISS method". It can always be added-to later, and anybody looking for more depth can then start asking questions or heaven forbid, use the search function.

SC

Changes:
- No part 1, two part 3's. ;)

Cut and paste is good, but it's also bad. :)


- Part 4, add line item "floors" (not everybody's building in the basement)
- Part 6, add sub-topic "How many supplies/returns do I need?
/QUOTE]

Thanks.

[QUOTE]Maybe sound isolation and acoustic management should be separate topics. That way, isolation could come before construction (i.e. you can't decide how to build your walls if you haven't decided whether you're doing RSIC, full room-within-a-room, just DD+GG, nothing, etc.

Good idea. Edited to reflect it.

You could also break up the "component" topic and make it into two - source components and displays. That way, you can cover screens, screen sizes, throws, angles, AT, etc. all in a "displays" section.

Again, done.

One suggestion... keep the text as simple and concise as possible.

Thanks. I'm trying to. I have a couple of textbook chapters and a few papers to my name and it's always a struggle to not delve too deply, particularly in something as dense as this.

Thanks!

-drin

Changes:
- No part 1, two part 3's. ;)

Part 1 is in an earlier post in the thread. :)

-drin

Part 9. HVAC
1. Do I need HVAC in my theater?
2. How do I size supply and return vents?
3. How do I soundproof supply and return vents?


What kind of HVAC systems are available to me?
What is a zoning system?
What is a low ambient A/C kit?
How do I calculate the heat loss heat gain?
How do I determine the required air flow?
How many air changes do I need per hour?
Do I need fresh air?
Enclosing in a fossil fuel furnace, room safety Combustion air openings needed.


Part 8. Lighting and Electrical Systems

Before closing the walls what should I prewire for, and what kind of wire should I use?

Part 2. Physical Design

Where to place your seats for the best acoustics (sweet spot)?

Bill

Why not consider making these topics sub-forums with a sticky at the top of each one? That way when I have a lighting question I go to the dedicated room - lighting forum. I like the faq idea but its going to get very long very fast.

I like the idea alot. But, as other FAQ stickies have proven, you can lead a horse to water, you just can't make him drink.

The big problem I encountered in this forum is that search engine is very limited. Most people like me are lazy and would prefer to search and get the knowledge. Posting a question is the last thing I want to do but most of my searches yielded very poor results and forced me to start posting...

On the question of sub-forums ...

In a previous life I helped run a large internet forum community. I managed and moderated a bunch of forems. I found that when you break things intil nestled sub-forums, it really hurts traffic when the sub-forum becomes too specialized. I wouldn't recommend making each theater subject into it's own sub-forum.

But yes a comprehensive FAQ will be a major pain to write and police. I'd imagine that it would only cut the repeat questions down a smidge. If people don't do searches, they won't read the FAQ either.

Posting a question is the last thing I want to do but most of my searches yielded very poor results and forced me to start posting...

I think you're probably amongst the minority Haseeb. Most newcomers seem to simply start blasting the forum with questions that have been asked many many times before.

As for the search feature, I know it's not optimal, but using the Advanced Search makes it MUCH more useful.

-drin

I'd imagine that it would only cut the repeat questions down a smidge. If people don't do searches, they won't read the FAQ either.

But it might be quicker to say 'Read the FAQ' than to do a search for a newcomer, or post a reply giving them their answer, no?

-drin

What kind of HVAC systems are available to me?
What is a zoning system?
What is a low ambient A/C kit?
How do I calculate the heat loss heat gain?
How do I determine the required air flow?
How many air changes do I need per hour?
Do I need fresh air?
Enclosing in a fossil fuel furnace, room safety Combustion air openings needed.




Before closing the walls what should I prewire for, and what kind of wire should I use?



Where to place your seats for the best acoustics (sweet spot)?

Bill

Thanks Bill! Edited to reflect these.

-drin

This is really coming along nicely. All I can add, is maybe throw in a few definitions of common abbreviations/acronyms. Already mentioned in this thread: DD+GG, AT, RISC, also a few non HT one's like HVAC may throw a few people. That should fall into Part 1, section 5

Some of the threads are clear and concise enough that all is needed for a sub-heading answer is a link to that thread. This may have the added benefit of people realizing that there is more than page 1 of the forum.

Thanks
Chip

This is really coming along nicely. All I can add, is maybe throw in a few definitions of common abbreviations/acronyms. Already mentioned in this thread: DD+GG, AT, RISC, also a few non HT one's like HVAC may throw a few people. That should fall into Part 1, section 5

Thanks Chip. Actually, I was thinking of having a glossary as part of the FAQ, since as you mentioned there are many terms that can be difficult to understand if you don't dig deeply on the forum.


Some of the threads are clear and concise enough that all is needed for a sub-heading answer is a link to that thread. This may have the added benefit of people realizing that there is more than page 1 of the forum.

Good point. Thanks!

-drin

You said the people who were here first know the answers because they were here first. If they know the answers, and they were here first, perhaps 'use the search feature' is the answer?

-drin

I agree with rboster that you get what you put into it. If that was a shot at me however we'll see if he changes his tune in a few weeks when I post pictures of my finished product. Some people learn easier by being taught. There are people on this forum who don't mind teaching and those imo are the great ones that keep this forum alive. If every 3rd grade teacher responded by saying "this question is asked by me every year and Im tired of explaining it to you" well I think our kids would be in more trouble than they already are. There are teachers, there are students, and there are those who just don't wanna be involved. Choose which one you wanna be.

And by the way, as a member for 2 or 3 years now... the search engine doesnt work for crap!

I agree with rboster that you get what you put into it. If that was a shot at me however we'll see if he changes his tune in a few weeks when I post pictures of my finished product. Some people learn easier by being taught. There are people on this forum who don't mind teaching and those imo are the great ones that keep this forum alive. If every 3rd grade teacher responded by saying "this question is asked by me every year and Im tired of explaining it to you" well I think our kids would be in more trouble than they already are. There are teachers, there are students, and there are those who just don't wanna be involved. Choose which one you wanna be.

And by the way, as a member for 2 or 3 years now... the search engine doesnt work for crap!

First of all, this isn't a contest. I hope your HT turns out the way you want it. I don't wish bad things for you.

You are correct ppl learn different ways, some cast a big net and try to absorb the total picture. Other's want specific instructions and tutorial. Of course, not everyone is the same. The FAQ will help a segment of the membership. It was a critical component in my research in the CIH forum.

As far as the search engine, the information is there if you learn to use the tool. I'll give you examples of some of your recent questions about black wall plates and smoke detectors....both have been asked before...the answers may not be what we were all hoping to hear...like you can buy a black smoke dedector at X store...but both topics have been covered before.

One thing that doesn't make sense is why you are so against the FAQ...it's a positive thing. I don't understand your resistance to members producing one? How does it negatively effect you?

Ron

Ok so several months ago somebody asks " Hey is there black wall plates on the market yet?" And somebody answers no, they don't exist yet. Then somebody else comes along months down the road and asks "Hey is there black wall plates on the market?" And somebody says search please!! So they do and find an answer saying no they do not exist. Well, what if www.blackwallplates.com was just launched 2 weeks ago how will they ever know about? The search won't tell them. If you wanna make an FAQ fine, just keep it up to date please. Most of the faqs around here include information that is old and forgotton. I should know, I've read them all over the past few months and found that asking specific questions is easier than reading 1400 pages where that answer "might" be burried within. Thats all I'm sayin. Well thats not all really, but really all for now.

I think the FAQ is coming along great. Keep it up drin...

Just based on the outline I can see I'm going to learn a lot from it myself, and you can be damn sure I'm going to read the whole thing! :)

Thanks for getting it done.

On the question of sub-forums ...

In a previous life I helped run a large internet forum community. I managed and moderated a bunch of forems. I found that when you break things intil nestled sub-forums, it really hurts traffic when the sub-forum becomes too specialized. I would recommend making each theater subject into it's own sub-forum.

But yes a comprehensive FAQ will be a major pain to write and police. I'd imagine that it would only cut the repeat questions down a smidge. If people don't do searches, they won't read the FAQ either.
I don't think that's at all fair. I know lot's of people use the massively, gigantically, hugely, gargantuan HTPC faq over in the HTPC sub forum. Sure, noobs will still post a question like "is a HTPC better than my DVD player?" That question is asked probably twice a day everyday but at least there I can patiently explain to them that this is a very involved and complex question that depends on individual needs... I can then provide them with a nice link to the terrific HTPC FAQs in that sub forum.

I'd say that at least half the time people read through it because they come back with much more informed questions... they are using it even if they still occasionally rush into posting a question. That certainly doesn't mean it's not worth putting the effort into the FAQ just because we still get newb questions.

I challenge you to show me any evidence that reading a FAQ is anything like wading through search results. The truth of the matter is searches really aren't incredibly helpful until you already have a working knowledge of the basics - otherwise sludging through threads is like reading Hieroglyphics.

I don't think your pessimism is warranted. :p

I think the FAQ is coming along great. Keep it up drin...
I couldn't agree more. Keep up the good work. But search engine is not optimised even with "advanced search" it produces too much low relevance stuff and makes it hard to get to the heart of the issue you are searching for.

I will definitely use the FAQ and I think many more will use it too.

Ok so several months ago somebody asks " Hey is there black wall plates on the market yet?" And somebody answers no, they don't exist yet. Then somebody else comes along months down the road and asks "Hey is there black wall plates on the market?" And somebody says search please!! So they do and find an answer saying no they do not exist. Well, what if www.blackwallplates.com was just launched 2 weeks ago how will they ever know about? The search won't tell them.

I agree that if no-one on the forum has posted anything about 'www.blackwallplates.com' it won't be searchable on the forum. How does that change anything? It's not up to the forum members to know everything there is to know about home theater. You make it sound like if a newcomer asks a question that no-one on the forum knows the answer to it's our fault for not knowing.

At some point people have to take responsibility for their own learning. The forum is NOT a home theater design training course - it's simply an Internet resource. Users need to learn how to use it appropriately, rather than expect that they'll get their theaters designed for free. For example, this was posted last night:

"Please Help! I am having our basement finished in our newly
purchased home and the work is commencing. I have set aside
one of the rooms in this basement as our home theatre. It is
17’4” wide X 18” foot room with 9 ft ceiling. At the back of the room
there is double sliding door to the outside (not great but it is what it is).
The access to the HT will also be at the back of the room on both
sides of the room. At the front of the room were the screen will
be front there is a duct that protruding down from the ceiling
approx 1’ by 1’. We will be extending this 1’ x 1’ around the perimeter
of the room.

I would like a small wet bar in the room on the right side when facing the screen.

Please can you provide your ideas to me for screen size, seating location,
speaker location, and equipment location etc so I can have the
contractors lay the correct wiring in the correct place. Your help will
be greatly appreciated. "

This is not someone looking for specific advice on black wall plates, to use your example. This is someone who's come into the forum looking for complete design specs for a theater, and they're looking for them for free (although I'm sure it's through naivete, not malicious intent). That is NOT what the forum is for. A FAQ would answer some of their questions and would hopefully educate them as to the proper use of the forum.

Perhaps I should clarify something here - I'm thinking of the FAQ as a resource to answer frequently asked basic questions that are implicit in the design and construction of a home theater. Not everyone wants black wall plates, but pretty much everyone wants some soundproofing. Not everyone wants step lights on their riser, but pretty much everyone wants ceiling lights or sconces. The FAQ isn't intended to answer every question ever posed, and as such it shouldn't require frequent updating. Answers about sound isolation/absorption, lighting design, HVAC and the like are basic and shouldn't change often. Answers about projectors, new components and the like will change fairly frequently and as such won't be in the FAQ.

The bottom line is that no-one is forcing you to read the FAQ. If you don't like it, don't read it.

-drin

I would hate to see this thread turn into a debate on whether to have a FAQ (it's been decided that one will be written), so I hesitate in making even one last point on the issue of redundant threads. If the search engine yeilds results (ie black wallplates) and those results don't fully answer the question or even yield an answer, I think it's best to resurect an existing thread, instead of starting a new complete thread on the same topic.

Why? One reason is it keeps redundant multiple threads to a minimum. The second and more important reason is it keeps a topic within one thread, so the search results become more complete and not scattershot. Some will say then we have a large thread that will be tough to find specific information within the thread. Yes, in some cases I think that would be true. I do think another search that is hardly ever used is the "search within a thread" engine. But I digress ;) I still think from a research standpoint, a longer thread is better, than 15-20 separate threads all asking the same question.

I'll stop on and let the thread get back on topic.

Ron

There can never be enough information available for users to look for answers.

There's GOOGLE, AVS Search engine, the FAQ's, just plain reading thread, and Asking Questions.

Why are we debating about WHY there should be a FAQ? (Please don't answer that). If someone wants to make a FAQ AND maintain it - LET THEM. There are those that WILL READ IT. There are other that will only use the AVS Search engine, those that will only scan the thread titles and read what they want to read. People are going to read what they want, when they want. If we provide them as many different options for finding exactly (or close to it), then that's a good thing, right?

If you don't want the FAQ, or think it's a bad idea then state your point for all of us to see, but don't turn it into a debate. There is nothing here on this forum stating every member must participate in the creation of the FAQ. Everyone IS entitled to his/her opinion, and we'll take them into consideration. Since there seems to be more positive reaction to creating the FAQ, it is being made. Had there been more negative reaction, we would not be here scripting it out.

I'm not trying to stand on a soapbox (like Drin... hehe). I just don't want this great community split over a small thing as a FAQ. I've learned a lot over the last several months and I'm very grateful for it....and very humbled by a lot of the awesome work put into the theaters I've seen here.

I'm not trying to stand on a soapbox (like Drin... hehe).

I don't know about a soapbox... I'm just allergic to stupidity. It makes me overly talkative in an attempt to make the person I'm replying to smarter. :)

-drin

...
I don't think that's at all fair. ...

I don't think your pessimism is warranted. :p

I should have been more clear. I think the FAQ is potentially a wonderful tool for some. But yes, I'm a pessimist. I do think that in the end we'll see Drin's battle cry go from "do a search" to "read the FAQ." ;)

Anywho, please carry on! :)

I should have been more clear. I think the FAQ is potentially a wonderful tool for some. But yes, I'm a pessimist. I do think that in the end we'll see Drin's battle cry go from "do a search" to "read the FAQ." ;)

If my saying 'Read the FAQ' answers someone's question why is that a problem?


-drin

I am sure the FAQ will be a wonderful tool. For me, I look at FAQ's like instruction manuals....read them as a last resort :)

If my saying 'Read the FAQ' answers someone's question why is that a problem?
-drin

It's not. No different than telling someone to use the search function is a problem if they then turn up the answer. With a FAQ though we'll know for sure if the answer can be found.

I am sure the FAQ will be a wonderful tool. For me, I look at FAQ's like instruction manuals....read them as a last resort :)


Just as long as it doesn't read like stereo instructions.... Oh wait, most of CAN understand stereo instructions... :D



It's not. No different than telling someone to use the search function is a problem if they then turn up the answer. With a FAQ though we'll know for sure if the answer can be found.

Can I get an AMEN, brotha'.... :eek: :p ;) :rolleyes:

Perhaps it may not seem like it now but I think this has been a very constructive discussion and I'm convinced good will come of it. Keep up the fight Drin!

The table of contents is awesome!!! By the way, this reminded me of our DVD demo disk on another thread. Someone, maybe a member of this forum, does not have a heart, that person burned copies of those demo dvd disk and sold it on ebay. Hopefully, this thread won't have same fate as that. Or maybe, if they want to make/sell a book using the info here, they should post or ask permissions from your thread or to all avsforumers. :D HEHEHE...

Perhaps it may not seem like it now but I think this has been a very constructive discussion and I'm convinced good will come of it. Keep up the fight Drin!
Drin, What do you need to move forward from here. Let's get the show on the road now... :)

This is an outstanding idea. It's been discussed in the past, but no one has stepped up to take on the task. I almost always search for an FAQ if I want to learn as much as possible about a new topic, and I'm sure there are many others that we benefit greatly.

If the forum software allows, it would be nice if the FAQ could have tags to each section. Then if someone asks a question that is on the FAQ, rather than slamming them, we could just refer them directly to the section of the FAQ that answers their question.

And please, for the love of God, tell people what GOM stands for.

Guy

Well, I'll leave this thread alone. Good luck with your faq. It'll probably be a great resource, but you're not gonna solve what you're trying to solve. And that is your specific need for people to do things your way. But again.. good luck!

My thoughts: I like the idea of a FAQ, but it needs to be a locked thread that only the maintainer can update. Otherwise it will turn into another random question thread mess. There should be another thread for the questions, and interesting ones can have the answers put in the FAQ thread. In the FAQ thread - the top post can be an index with links to the lower posts on each subject. That will work with the way the forum software currently operates.

I like the idea.
I also think we should all chip in a buck and have the search function improved.
this would solve a lot of problems. Hire a google employee. :)

I think a FAQ or a "starter guide" would be a good way to go. I was completely overwhelmed when I first started reading this forum and it took me quite a while to get used to the search. Heck, when I first came, I wouldn't even know what to search for, just had to put in my time and read thread after thread.

I did come across a HT How to Guide (http://archive2.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=548921) that is now in the archives that at least covered some of the basics.

The folks that are lazy who aren't gonna bother to try to research are still going to come on here and ask the redundant questions, and will likely not stay here long anyway. But the new folks who are going to eventually make this their hobby, are going to *have* to learn how to do the research, and learn what questions to ask, how effectively use the search etc. If enough information can be put into the starter guide/FAQ that it could at least get someone going, then it should be well worth the effort.

Thanks to everyone for the input, pro and con, on the idea of a FAQ. It's greatly appreciated.

I think we're at the point where we can proceed. If no-one has any more revisions to the proposed table of contents I'm going to start writing up answers to the questions I'm comfortable with. I've considered referencing forum material within the FAQ but I'm concerned that may prove problematic when threads are moved to the archives since the links will no longer be valid (as far as I know). Any thoughts are welcome.

As I complete draft versions of the various answers I'll post them in this thread for review by forum members. When we're agreed that an answer is correct and complete enough I'll mark it as complete.

Now, how do we post these? I've been thinking that there should be a single thread, hopefully locked once it's complete. I'll need to talk to the moderators (Alan? Dennis?) to see if they're amenable to providing a locked sticky thread to hold the FAQ. My thinking is that the TOC should be the first post in the thread. Each question in the TOC should be a link to a subsequent post inside the same thread which can answer that particular question. That way people can use the TOC and click to the answer they're interested in or they can read the entire thread to read the FAQ in its entirety.

Thoughts, concerns, bribes? Does that make sense to people? I'm concerned that if the thread is open for replies it runs the risk of becoming overly long and that it won't get read.

Thanks for everyone's help in this, folks.

-drin

Here are some questions that get asked at least once a month.

Where do I buy home theater seating?
How do I build a riser?How tall should it be.
Why have a stage? How do I build a stage? What about all that sand business
Do I really need columns?
What color should I Paint.....?
How do I provide surge protection to the projector?
How do I put, Furring strips, Acoustic treatments and fabric up? Where do I buy it?
How do build a false wall,
How can I post pictures of my project
Do I need a permit
What size wire? what is in wall rating? Do I need this $150 4 ft HDMI cable?
Where do I put the equipment, How do I build a rack, what size and how do I cool it?

Here are some questions a lot of people never ask but should.

What should I do before I frame the walls?
Should I use an Acoustically transparent screen?
Where do the speakers go relative to the screen, and the walls,
What is fixed offset versus lens shift?
My builder says I should should do it this way , that it is the way he has always done it and says it will be just fine, is it a good idea?
What are bass traps? do I need them?
What about all these remotes?

Keep up the good work I will try to help when possible.

Thanks Jeff! I'll modify the table of content to include these questions.

Edit: changed with your questions incorporated.

-drin

Drin - I like the TOC in the first message of the thread, and those link to separate replies in that thread.

This will be nice for those intend to/ and do use it.... and a P.I.T.A. for those that don't/won't use it..... Personally, I'll use it just to stay informed.







Another idea that was brought up (by me, I thinK), to have a sub-thread in here with the active build threads. Any comments?

I'm almost finished the answers for Part 2. I'll post them for review when they're complete.

rgroves: I think the build sub-thread idea would be a bit hard to manage. There's nothing to force people to start their build threads there and I don't think the mods would want to take on that role.


-drin

Drin, I assume once this is done it will be posted in a separate thread. This thread has already become cumbersome, but it is just your workspace, right?

Drin, I assume once this is done it will be posted in a separate thread. This thread has already become cumbersome, but it is just your workspace, right?

A new thread, absolutely. I'm hoping to convince the mods to sticky and lock it so it can't be modified.

-drin

Comments, questions, additions and deletions welcome. If you feel like answering any of these questions, please feel free. I'll be glad to include your answer in the FAQ.

--- DRAFT ---
[QUOTE=drin]Part 2. Physical Design
1. Should I hire a designer to build my room?
2. How much does it cost to build a home theater?
3. How long does it take to build a home theater?
4. What should my theater dimensions be?
5. How big a screen can I have?
6. How many chairs can I fit in the room?
7. Where should I put the seats for the best audio?
8. What software can I use to design the room?
9. Do I need a riser/stage/proscenium wall?
How about adding something on generic rules of thumb, wherever possible? Like size of the stage compared to room size, soffit sizes and locations, riser heights, etc.

Also these questions: Speakers behind the screen? How much room to leave behind the screen? False walls and how much room to leave behind the speakers? The impact of the above on the overall dimensions of the room.

Part 3. Sound isolation
1. What's sound isolation?
2. How do I isolate my theater from the rest of the house? HUGE topic

Walls
Ceiling
Floors
Doors
Windows
Electrical outlets
Ceiling lights

How about adding a topic on "sound Proofing" the room.

On the question of sub-forums ...

In a previous life I helped run a large internet forum community. I managed and moderated a bunch of forems. I found that when you break things intil nestled sub-forums, it really hurts traffic when the sub-forum becomes too specialized. I wouldn't recommend making each theater subject into it's own sub-forum.

But yes a comprehensive FAQ will be a major pain to write and police. I'd imagine that it would only cut the repeat questions down a smidge. If people don't do searches, they won't read the FAQ either.

I tend to agree here. It would be great to harness the collective wisdom of this forum, but in the context of the forum searching is the best method to do this. FAQs are often outdated, links go dead, and mods/authors lose time or interest.

Drin's list is a great start. How about stuffing it in something designed for structured info, like a wiki? Start with a few pages modeled on drin's list, and leave it open to people who have information to add or update. Then, when people ask the "noob" questions, point them to the wiki or a page therein. Being a noob myself, I'd love to have it all in one place. :)

How about adding something on generic rules of thumb, wherever possible? Like size of the stage compared to room size, soffit sizes and locations, riser heights, etc.

There are no rules of thumb for those items - other than the riser (for which there's a calculator on the forum) they're really up to the individual builder.


Also these questions: Speakers behind the screen? How much room to leave behind the screen? False walls and how much room to leave behind the speakers?

Covered by "Where do I put my speakers?" and "How do I build a proscenium wall?" already.


How about adding a topic on "sound Proofing" the room.

That's what 'Sound Isolation' is.

-drin

What is the status of the FAQ? I could really use this right now.

Drin has not posted anything since August. I think there may of been one too many newbie questions and he has deserted us for another forum.

I like the idea. A sticky would be great for this. make it so no one (except mods, etc..) can reply to it so it won't get filled with junk.

I also think we should have a sub forum here just for construction threads. Make it so the thread starts in the main forum and a mod can them move it to the construction thread. Make it so no threads can be started in there, but replies to threads are allowed (if that can be done). This way we can separate out design/build from general questions about build and construction.

I like this idea, but perhaps we could consider reversing the threads. Leave the main thread as the construction/build thread and create a sub forum for questions.

Mr. Drin,

Please come back and finish the great job you started. My home theater project will thank you forever! :D:cool::)

I think I am speaking for all the newbees and novases.:D

I know this is an old thread - but think it still has relevance.

First off - any software developer will place this issue into the box of "patterns". Thousands of other forums on other sites have asked and answered the same "use the search" issue. If the people who don't like the repeat questions would just "use the google" to find out what other sites have done perhaps it wouldn't be an issue for them anymore. Ok - so now that I've taken the same "use the search" approach and made you mad...

Hopefully drin will come back and put up a first edition of the FAQ. I agree with the overall idea of an FAQ, the TOC structure, and the assumption that at some point it will become outdated and unmanaged. Still very useful, but it will require someone else to carry the torch at some point.

I think the general idea of jumping on new folks with the "use the search" response would be valid if the search or even advanced search function was effective. I've been in web development for more than a decade with first hand experience in search engine design (not a google employee though). From a usability perspective the vBulletin search system doesn't behave like users expect and requires that the user learn a new way of searching. That may be fine for some, but not most.

Unfortunately in most cases this "use the search" approach comes across as "hey stupid, watch it! get outta my way!" But, directing them instead to an FAQ (if it indeed has the answer) is a great alternative, assuming the approach is a little more friendly (ie: "good question, the FAQ will be the fastest way to get a good answer" vs "use the FAQ"). Of course, if the usability and content of the FAQ doesn't perform well for the newbie (like the current search) then this method will also fail.

Really it just comes down to the fact that there will be TONS of people like me, who aren't enthusiasts but want to learn as quickly as possible from others who are willing to share their knowledge. AVS comes up in most search engines as #1 when searching on the popular catch phrases which generates huge traffic for AVS and therefore better advertising opportunities.

I participate in some forums where a lot of members use the quick "read the FAQ" approach if your posts don't include the required 30 odd pieces of information in the FAQ sticky. Sites that use similar methods tend to get way less traffic than competitors. That works great for the grumpy forum vets who are tired of the same old questions, but not so much for the advertisers because it drives people away. I have a friend who owns a forum based enthusiast site, who is close to closing an almost seven figure sale of the site. His site generates the most traffic in that market segment and his moderators frown on the "use the FAQ" approach.

I would love an FAQ like the one outlined by drin "START HERE - quick answers to FAQs" - but I doubt it would significantly stem the tide of repetitive questions.

I should add that I think in the Dedicated forum the folks are amazingly patient with newbies compared to some places I hang out. That is a big factor in keeping me coming back, reading, and yes searching (even inside threads), and sometimes posting without searching first.

As great as the AVS community is, sometimes a person doesn't know what questions to ask, especially about something as complicated as building a dedicated theater. That is why there are so many noob threads on here. That is where a well organized FAQ comes into play.

I have wanted a dedicated theater for some time (and have been reading project threads here for years). However, until I moved to a new house in October, I had no room for a dedicated HT. I am now planning to add a dedicated HT on to my house. I have spent countless hours on this forum. However, I feel like I'm reading a book using a random page generator. I am getting a lot of info, but it is all out of order. A FAQ could really help in this regard.

I may have to start a thread at some point to get input on my plan. Is that considered an annoying noob thread or is it accepted practice? I can't really do this anyway until I figure out how to make my Punch! software export the floorplan into an image file of some sort. If anyone knows how to do that, please let me know. So far I can only get it to export the 3D renderings.

I may have to start a thread at some point to get input on my plan. Is that considered an annoying noob thread or is it accepted practice? I can't really do this anyway until I figure out how to make my Punch! software export the floorplan into an image file of some sort. If anyone knows how to do that, please let me know. So far I can only get it to export the 3D renderings.

I couldn't figure out how to do the punch thing either. What I ended up doing was printing the blueprint and scanning it into my computer. Another option is to print it and then take a picture of it with a digital camera. Both are probably the "dumb guy" way to do it, but I am who I am!

And, yes, start a thread. That is what drives this forum. And the nob questions only bother some members, not all. So ask away...of course after you try the search feature and it produces 2600 hits.

In the absence of a FAQ - the standard advice applies. Check out Ruben and Bud's threads (and as many more as you can), then keep reading the forum for a while (long while is best).
Ruben's
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=574704
Bud's (has a HUGE index in post #1)
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=549924

EDIT - And, like Gonzo said don't be afraid to post a new thread and ask questions. Use pictures if you can (see link in sig), don't ask too many questions at once.