So I bought a PS3 a couple of days ago, and then bought Crimson Tide (amongst others) from a local EzyDVD whilst a large shipment from Amazon makes its way over. This movie is a real favourite of mine, and it's always got short shrift on DVD.

Holy Shazbat!

Crimson Tide is a-ma-zing. High bitrate AVC video and nothing short of spectacular - I never imagined this movie could look anywhere near this good. Perfect shadow detail, smoky interiors and underwater scenes handled with zero problems - no banding, no grain, no edge enhancement, just a smooth, detailed and very film-like picture.

And the PCM audio rocked.

I'm loving the PS3 (talk about super-quick - I swear it takes seconds from the thing turned off to actually playing a BD), and I'm loving BD. :D

i was really impressed by the PQ as well , but have to disagree with you on one part ... edge enhancement. it's most definitely there. the film's pretty dark most of the time, so it's not noticeable, but in some of the earlier pre-sub scenes, whamo !!! seems to be the case with most of this new batch of blu-rays (the rock, crimson tide ... i've heard con air has it as well).
c'est la vie !!

Slight EE + film dirt is noticeable even in Face/Off during the first few scenes. May be a bit distracting to AV purist but certainly not for the normal audience.

So I bought a PS3 a couple of days ago, and then bought Crimson Tide (amongst others) from a local EzyDVD whilst a large shipment from Amazon makes its way over. This movie is a real favourite of mine, and it's always got short shrift on DVD.

Holy Shazbat!

Crimson Tide is a-ma-zing. High bitrate AVC video and nothing short of spectacular - I never imagined this movie could look anywhere near this good. Perfect shadow detail, smoky interiors and underwater scenes handled with zero problems - no banding, no grain, no edge enhancement, just a smooth, detailed and very film-like picture.

And the PCM audio rocked.

I'm loving the PS3 (talk about super-quick - I swear it takes seconds from the thing turned off to actually playing a BD), and I'm loving BD. :D

Does anyone know if they plan on keeping the extended edition per last SE or just reverting back to theatrical? I actually thought the EE was a nice add-on

Well DTS guy, the BR of Crimson Tide available in the UK and other territories is the theatrical version, NOT the EE. But it does contain the deleted scenes, and i think the EE just has the deleted scenes just cut back in, right?

I just watched the Aussie BD of Crimson Tide last night and thought the same, PQ was excellent, audio was very nice as well. An easy disc to recommend!

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/DVDReviews35/crimson_tide_blu-ray.htm
http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/movies.php?id=15&show=review

No Extended Version. No 24-bit audio. Then why in the CRIMSON hell did I wait for the U.S version ? May be God wanted me to buy this on BOGO instead of shelling out $35 domestically.

Agreed the AU version is great, a real joy to watch! Dare I say what we need now is the best Sub movie ever, Das Boot ;)

Definitely shouldn't shell out $35 for it. Even Circuit City has it for $20.

Crimson Tide is a-ma-zing. High bitrate AVC video and nothing short of spectacular - I never imagined this movie could look anywhere near this good. Perfect shadow detail, smoky interiors and underwater scenes handled with zero problems - no banding, no grain, no edge enhancement, just a smooth, detailed and very film-like picture.

And the PCM audio rocked.


I concur. LOL :p ;)

Looks very good. Picked it up today.

Crimson Tide on Blu-ray was initially advertised to have 24-bit LPCM track and running time of 123 minutes. In reality the promise has been broken. There was no reason for BVHE to delay the stateside release of Crimson Tide and Con Air when their overseas releases got identical treatment.

audio review:

I can't wait until I get PCM but I refuse to believe that even the LPCM track can measure up to today's DD5.1. It's alright, but I'm not rushing to invite my friends over to hear it.

what's good: The mechanical sounds of the sub's hull as it creaks and groans were convincingly done. During the sinking scene, this was most evident. Zimmer's score was well recorded. It sounded expansive and clear and I love the theme (still not as good as The Rock though). The hymn "Eternal Father Strong to Save" (Ch 6) was also very well presented. I felt like I was in a church. As for bass, a room-shaker CT is not. Thankfully, it was never boomy or thick so as to be annoying.

what's bad: My favorite scene is the "Go Bama, Roll Tide" scene in the beginning before they board the sub (Ch 5). But Hackman's dialogue is so badly recorded it's downright embarrassing. It sounds like he's talking into a can. No other bit of dialogue in this movie, or many other movies for that matter, sounds this bad. And yes, it's on the DVD too, both of them. A smaller gripe is the use of surrounds. I found some effects too directional and its panning too deliberate.

The overall fidelity is just not there, but hey, it's almost 13 years old. 6.5/10


Video: i found some scenes blurry as if the focus puller fell asleep. The scene where Washington and Hackman were smoking cigars (Ch 6) is bad. It looked so soft. Their orange jackets glowed outside their edges. Can someone confirm?
The final scene (ch32) in Hawaii, when the senior officer was giving his disciplinary report, there was a particular close up of his face where his eyes and nose were not even in focus, but the stars on his shoulder were! huh?!?! Not a transfer problem, maybe just badly shot. Much of the interior scenes were good though. Overall, it leans to the softer side.


I tend to be harsh when it comes to audio reviews. I feel like a prof who just gives out 5 A+'s in a class of 100. So what sounds good to me? I watched Shoot Em Up on SD (gasp!) yesterday and THAT kicked ass. But Crimson Tide is a better movie in every frame.

My copy arrives today. I need Das, The Hunt, U571, and Below on BD (good luck, huh) CT might not be the best of class but it has Hackman, and a classic Zimmer score. I'll take the BD even if it's not perfect.

http://www.hmv.co.jp/product/detail/2658179 - U-571

Does anyone know if they plan on keeping the extended edition per last SE or just reverting back to theatrical? I actually thought the EE was a nice add-on

I dont' know why my previous comment was deleted but we're not getting the extended edition.

http://www.hmv.co.jp/product/detail/2658179 - U-571

Geez - 4000 yen reminds me of paying 200,000 p for dinner in Ixtapa years ago - about the same 40-50 U.S. at the time.

I have 1 Jp import that's a barrel of laughs trying to navigate setup menus.

I'll wait - my current upscale ain't bad ;)

Almost time to fire up the Alabama!

audio review:

I can't wait until I get PCM but I refuse to believe that even the LPCM track can measure up to today's DD5.1.

The overall fidelity is just not there, but hey, it's almost 13 years old. 6.5/10


Huh?????????????

Huh?????????????
+1
LPCM is uncompressed vs DD5.1 which is compressed, unless your talking about TrueHD.

+1
LPCM is uncompressed vs DD5.1 which is compressed, unless your talking about TrueHD.

I think hes talking about standard dolby....

LPCM is uncompressed vs DD5.1 which is compressed, unless your talking about TrueHD.

Sorry guys for being confusing. The quality of the mix itself is far more important to overall SQ than the amount of compression used (within reason). Crimson Tide does sound a little dated and I'm guessing even at its best, uncompressed, it can't measure up to the better DD5.1 mixes of today. Therefore, in absolute terms, CT's soundtrack is nothing to write home about. However, if you say this the best CT has ever sounded, then that's fair.

Now if Cary can get their sh** together and give me a prepro with HDMI, I can speak on the same terms as many of you!

Believe it... I have LCPM capability and it is worth the money. Better dialog, dynamics, surround and a lower noise floor.

Maybe you should try it rather than theorize....:)

Lossy DD just sounds (comparatively) flat.

audio review:

I can't wait until I get PCM but I refuse to believe that even the LPCM track can measure up to today's DD5.1. It's alright, but I'm not rushing to invite my friends over to hear it.



This statement completely baffles me. You're saying that compressed DD 5.1 sounds better than high bitrate, uncompressed LPCM? I think you have a problem with your equipment or ears. Because what you're claiming just ain't so!

Sorry guys for being confusing. The quality of the mix itself is far more important to overall SQ than the amount of compression used (within reason). Crimson Tide does sound a little dated and I'm guessing even at its best, uncompressed, it can't measure up to the better DD5.1 mixes of today.

Confusing is right. How can you compare one soundtrack in a given format to another (different movie) in a different format? Makes no sense. Give it some thought.

You're saying that compressed DD 5.1 sounds better than high bitrate, uncompressed LPCM? If we're talking about the same soundtrack, then no, of course not! But SQ largely depends on the mixing, engineering, and mastering. You think those filmmixers are all the same? You think just because it says 16bit, LPCM on the back, it's gonna bring down the house?

To say that an Academy award winning sound engineer is better than a novice at producing a soundtrack is meaningless. You have to severely handicap the veteran to make the comparison remotely fair.

How can you compare one soundtrack in a given format to another (different movie) in a different format?

Why not? Formats are just tools. The final result is SQ which is what I'm judging. A veteran sound engineer can work with 2 speakers and MP3 and kick my ass at producing a sdtk, even if I had PCM and 10 speakers. Imagine what would happen if he used PCM and 10 speakers? That's what I'm saying..........some of today's best like Ratatouille, Titanic, Transformers, Shoot Em Up, Pan's Labrinyth, Master and Commander, are so much better than movies 15 years ago, that it's not even fair to compare. And it should be better. Sound mixing is an art and we should be getting better with experience.

Bottom line: Crimson DD5.1 is light years behind Ratatouille DD5.1. And I can't wait to hear what Crimson can do over PCM.

Good movie I've got the LD and the UR DVD they put out a few years ago. If the BD's selling for $20 retail I may get this the next time I'm out movie shoping.

I have to build the BD collection as I've only got 10 so far

Bottom line: Crimson DD5.1 is light years behind Ratatouille DD5.1. And I can't wait to hear what Crimson can do over PCM.

Did you mean Crimson LPCM is light years behind Ratatouille DD5.1 ?

I thought the 16-bit LPCM track on Underworld Unrated and Black Hawk Down brought down many houses.

Did you mean Crimson LPCM is light years behind Ratatouille DD5.1 ?

No. I don't have a HDMI prepro yet. Listening with PS3 via optical. That's why I said LPCM has to improve Crimson a ridiculous amount, just to be in the same ballpark as Rat DD5.1. But then if LPCM really is that amazing, Rat LPCM should just bring me to tears, in which case Crimson still lags behind.

I'm sure Underworld and BHD LPCM are amazing. They are amazing even compressed.

Though I am no expert in AV I can boldly make a statement that even a simple 2.1 ch setup will suffice for comparing LPCM and DD. '
LPCM tracks are usually loud but they DO carry the extra omph factor and the dynamic range which most of the times will be missing in DD.
We should also consider the decoding capabilities of the receiver as some have the tendency to decode legacy audios better than HD audio formats like DTHD and dts HD-MA. I compared ONKYO 605 and 805 in a showroom out here and the 805 did a tremendous job decoding HD audio and LPCM while the former excelled in decoding DD and DTS.

May be I am spoiled too much sitting in a PCM loving country.

Well I just got done watching it and to be honest Im a little disappointed in the audio. I read all the perfect reviews and went in there expecting "The Rock", and it wasn't even close. Surrounds sounded pretty good, but the front just sounded thin (thats the best I could describe it). I even checked my settings to see if I had something screwed up.
Im using PCM. Anyone else?

No problems here utilizing the Panny BD30 and Panny 37" plasma. I cannot recommended this any more highly than saying this is a very very good buy. Blind buy it even if you never have seen this movie. It is amongst my favorites and I don't feel one would be disappointed with the content.

The sound isn't amongst the best I've heard with some on those rockers on DTS HD MA but there was enough here to give me a jolt at times and a more than an acceptable surround sound listening experience IMHO. The dialog was very clean and concise. The PQ is the high point of this release though IMHO. Looked great on my gear and blows away the SD DVD!

Now if Cary can get their sh** together and give me a prepro with HDMI, I can speak on the same terms as many of you!

No need to wait for Cary. Just get the upcoming Denon AVP-A1HDCI pre/pro and you'll be good to go.

The vid and audio are well above the DVD imo. Certainly not the best around, but for anyone who loves this film, a very nice improvement. Extras are minimal. Other than 3 short showcase clips of the film, they look ported from the SD.

Lack of unrated cut on this BD means no sale. Why studios do this when there's very good unrated DVD version is a puzzle. Sony did this with Ultraviolet. Fox did it with DH4, and now Disney does it with Crimson Tide. That's 3 lost sales to someone who buys practically everything out in high-def.

Why do you need another cut?

The studios have started this ugly habit of releasing extended cut of movies that doesnt really need it. Just because they can resell the movie again.

Very few times are an extended edition motivated. There was a reason why the director didnt put in thoose scenes the first time around.

Crimsom tide is an excellent purchase on BD.

Does anyone know whether the US version is region free or not?

Thanks,

Mitch

HDD Review is up.

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/638/crimsontide.html

HDD Review is up.

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/638/crimsontide.html

And it contains the sentence:

"The hair on Hackman's dog is crisp..."

That made me laugh, for some reason.

And it contains the sentence:

"The hair on Hackman's dog is crisp..."

That made me laugh, for some reason.
A Jack Russell Terrier is a funny place to look for detail.

For the most part I agree with the review. His take on the audio might be generous, but he does mention a lack of foley at one point (ref to surrounds being quiet)
which hints at the way it was mixed/mastered.
People need a little perspective when they judge an older catalog title. Bill (the bits) mentioned this today. Not like it's anything new. SD had the same `all over the map' levels of quality.

Funny that everyone wants surround all the time. Sure its a nice thing to enhance the movie experience, but sometimes if they overdo it it actually distract the dialouge, and i still think in a movie like Crimsom tide the dialouge is the most important feature.

To hear the sailors drink coffey behind me doesnt make the movie better.

As a big fan of the theatrical cut of the movie and having never seen the SD extended cut DVD release, can someone give me the broad strokes on why the longer cut is better? I see so many people on the fence over buying this BD or throwing down at it because it's not the extended version and I wonder why. Is it a superior cut of the movie? Does those seven minutes I'm hearing about really make a difference?

As a big fan of the theatrical cut of the movie and having never seen the SD extended cut DVD release, can someone give me the broad strokes on why the longer cut is better? I see so many people on the fence over buying this BD or throwing down at it because it's not the extended version and I wonder why. Is it a superior cut of the movie? Does those seven minutes I'm hearing about really make a difference?

I haven't seen the extended cut myself but there's nothing here that screams necessarily "better", just "more":

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0112740/alternateversions

Now if it were 7 more minutes of just Washington vs. Hackman...

Thanks for the link. I'm not a strict purist, but I harbor a dislike towards the ever-growing trend of these "extended", "director's" or "unrated" cuts. For me, they rarely improve a movie and it just comes off looking like more marketing bs. Like double dips, LE's and SE's weren't enough.

'Hey we messed with the movie a fourth time, buy it all again!'

The picture was awesome, but the DD 5.1 left something to be desired. (like a new receiver for me!)

Thanks for the link. I'm not a strict purist, but I harbor a dislike towards the ever-growing trend of these "extended", "director's" or "unrated" cuts. For me, they rarely improve a movie and it just comes off looking like more marketing bs. Like double dips, LE's and SE's weren't enough.

'Hey we messed with the movie a fourth time, buy it all again!'

My felling exactly, it was a time when there were extended editions that I really wanted, but now it has turned in to "add scenes and sell it again" market.

If the movie really was superior that way, why not release it that way then from start.

I really like the extended edition of Aliens, since im a fan of the movie. But when i break down the movie, thoose added scenes really destroy some of the suspense the theatrical cut build up. So for a first time viewing I always recommend the theatrical cut of the movie.

I saw Crimson Tide (Blu-ray) last night.

I don't know why, but it irked me seeing James Galdolfini (aka Tony Soprano) playing the jerky naval officer. Everytime he came onscreen, I felt like hitting the eject button on my PS3.

Anyway, Tony Soprano aside, I felt the transfer looked fantastic and was highly impressed with the sound. It's a movie with a submarine setting so you're bound to get a great LFE workout. It wasn't as strong as U571 in the LFE department, but it did not dissapoint. The image quality was great, I did not notice EE or halos as others have pointed out, but I wasn't specifically looking for them (so take that with a grain of salt).

Overall, I would highly recommended Crimson Tide on Blu-ray.

Picture: 8.0 out of 10

Sound: 8.5 out of 10

Total Rating: Definite Buy

The picture was awesome, but the DD 5.1 left something to be desired. (like a new receiver for me!)

May be I am spoiled too much sitting in a PCM loving country.;)

I've purchased several "older" titles in blu ray. Crimson Tide is by far the absolute best transfer to BD that I have seen in an older movie. I don't know how they did it...but they did. Of course, I went in with low expectations because of what I have seen on other movies.

marcus

I've purchased several "older" titles in blu ray. Crimson Tide is by far the absolute best transfer to BD that I have seen in an older movie. I don't know how they did it...but they did. Of course, I went in with low expectations because of what I have seen on other movies.

marcus

Its mainly because Crimsom tide was shoot very visual from the beginning.

Bruckheimer/Simpson does spend some $ on the production.


They also added some EE to it and that can help on the look (but EE is something they should avoid in HD)


Fans of the movie should pick this one up.

just watched, nice job for an older title.

Huh?!?

My felling exactly, it was a time when there were extended editions that I really wanted, but now it has turned in to "add scenes and sell it again" market.

If the movie really was superior that way, why not release it that way then from start.

I really like the extended edition of Aliens, since im a fan of the movie. But when i break down the movie, thoose added scenes really destroy some of the suspense the theatrical cut build up. So for a first time viewing I always recommend the theatrical cut of the movie.

it is definitely a fad that bothers me also. 9 time out of 10 theres a reason those scenes were removed from the movie. it seems all the studios want to do is take some crap from the cutting room floor and put it back in the movie just so they can say its the unrated/extended version or worse there intentionally leaving things out of the theatrical releases. as far as I can remember the only movies that benefited from having expended editions was the LOTR trilogy. the extended scenes actually added the the movies and made the stories better, they werent just extra junk. now of course these scenes were removed from already long movies due to theaters time constraints.

I'm going to try to give this a spin this weekend.

with seamless branching, i don't know why they can't just put both versions on the same disk

One of my favorite movies. Was great on BD.

It is $14.99 at Best Buy this week which was probably mentioned. A freaking steal IMHO! :)

This one will get multiple viewings easily for me. Anything bad about this BD is just nitpicks IMHO.

$15 shipped at Amazon too.

Now get me my other favorite submarine movie dangit! HUNT FOR RED OCTOBER!

Now get me my other favorite submarine movie dangit! HUNT FOR RED OCTOBER!

This was announced on Paramount and then disappeared when they went HD-DVD exclusive. Does anyone know whether this was released as an individual title on HD or was it only bundled in the Jack Ryan Collection?

The titles in the recalled HD DVD bundle were only available in the set. I don't think the individual cases in the set even had UPC codes on them.

I viewed about half of this tonight and it looks absolutely outstanding.

this is one of the best catalog releases i have seen on either format to date in the PQ department. I also wish i could pick up Red October as a standalone release.. i'm just not interested in the other films in the Collection, especially Sum of All Fears. I'm sure eventually, like the mission impossible movies, they will become available as single titles. That is assuming that they are still going to release it on Blu.

well, the Jack Ryan movies all looked pretty good and all had TrueHD. Should be easy to port over to BD.

Very few people have these movies in-hand as they were easy to find yet almost impossible to purchase!

I'd like to see Das Boot, but I don't know what kind of effort will be involved. Was the mid-90s restoration done on a HD Master?

Though I don't care much about bit rates I am slightly concerned if BVHE has tweaked the video bit rates on the U.S release.
I hope that DNR wasn't applied.

*************************************

Crimson Tide (EU) - from benes stats thread.
Video Codec : AVC
Running time :1:55:45 (116 minutes)
Movie Size : 31,228,631,040
Disc Size : 33,650,469,812
Avg Bit Rate : 24.00
Disc Type : BD-50

*************************************

Crimson Tide (US)
Video Codec : AVC
Running time :1:55:45
Estimated Movie Size:

Assuming Avg Bit Rate to be the same as EU version
: 24.00 (20.8 GB)
English PCM 5.1 (4.6 Mbps) (4.0 GB)
English Dolby Digital 5.1 (556 MB)
French Dolby Digital 5.1 (556 MB)
Total Estimated Movie Size (Excluding Extras) : 25.8 GB ????? :confused:

Disc Type : BD-25

*************************************

The US version is on a BD50.

I don't think the U.S version is on a BD-50.

So is the import better?

I sold my import version when BVHE initially announced that Crimson Tide will feature 24-bit audio. I also assumed that the U.S will get extended version. But both didn't happen and I am now wondering if BVHE has done some tweaking to the PQ as it has now been crammed into BD-25.

I can't comment on the disc's actual size, but I finally got my copy and watched it the other night. Fantastic PQ and AQ! The film itself still held up well after all this time too and so its a recommended buy from one fan to another.

Watched the deleted scenes afterwards and am I ever glad the BD release isn't the extended cut. They were alright splices, but they would have killed pacing and timing for what? A fun joke worth hearing once and an extra layer of Hunter & Cob that wasn't all that necessary. I stand by my cynical view of unrated, super duper, director, "cuts".

What did they use to shoot this freaking film. You can count pores and beads of sweat. The Scott brothers allways make stuff that looks jaw dropping in HD. I still think PQ has more to do with the director than the studio.

This movie has some deep bass. I was surprised this one looked and sounded better than most new films. This was the first time I saw it, and I really enjoyed it. Man Denzel used to be a good actor before he started improvising his lines.

It has to be a BD50. This does not look like it was crammed on a BD25 and bit starved(A Warner release). It looks and sounds like a high bit rate Disney- awesome-always-solid-BD-release.:)

My felling exactly, it was a time when there were extended editions that I really wanted, but now it has turned in to "add scenes and sell it again" market.


I consider The Abyss : Extended Edition a true example of more is better. 99% of the time out of that, I'm with everyone else.

I consider The Abyss : Extended Edition a true example of more is better.Yup, one of the few examples of where the extended cut made for a more coherent story (especially the ending) than the initial edit.

Looking forward to getting Crimson Tide' on BD (so I can finally retire my DTS laserdisc version).

Sanjay

Does anyone agree with this review ?

http://avplay.avforums.com/index.php?reviewid=13096

Crimson Tide is presented in a theatrically correct 1080P transfer. I have not seen any previous incarnations of this on disc before – but I was singularly unimpressed with this transfer.

The major gripe I had with the transfer was a general softness and a lack of detail which sometimes made me wonder if I was watching an HD transfer. This is very noticeable in the early scenes, which take place on a wet base during a teeming rainstorm. Running this transfer alongside, for example Con Air (a film from a similar era) you really do notice the lack of detail in Crimson Tide. In the Bay actioner, you can see every rain drop and feel drawn into the scene. In Crimson Tide the rain merely forms a indistinct curtain, obscuring the action.

This softness and lack of detail is also noticeable throughout the film – particularly on faces once the submarine’s mission begins. Surroundings in the submarine do not look noticeably sharp – and the whole 3d Pop that we are used to is missing.

On the positive side though, colours (although muted by design) do look well saturated and clear. When red light bathe the sub, for example, the result is a beautifully enhanced image that really underscores the atmosphere.

As previously mentioned, I have never seen the SD release – but the source for this HD release is pristine. Despite the age, there is no visible dirt or problems with the print, and despite the lack of detail you could be watching a more recent film.

I cannot deny that I was disappointed by the picture as it was presented here. The general feeling I came out with was one of feeling that this could have been a lot better than it was. Sadly I cannot confirm how much of an improvement this is (or isn’t) over SD, but this is certainly far from reference material.