I'm loving my HLS5087W so far but picking the right DVD player is difficult. Especially considering I dumped all of my money into this TV the last thing I want to do is spend hundreds more. I bought the Samsung 1080p7 and the upconversion was terrible. 1080P was so grainy. I exchanged it for the Song DVP-NS77H and 1080P still sucks. I've just set the resolution to 480P and let the TV do the unconverting which looks much better. I don't quite understand why brand new, high rated players would do the upconverting worse than an outdated TV. If I go and buy the Oppo is it really gonna be that much better than the samsung and sony? Will it upconvert better than my DLP? Also if I'm going to invest this much into a DVD player would it just be best to buy a PS3 or is it not a good player?

How did you calibrate?

larry

I'm loving my HLS5087W so far but picking the right DVD player is difficult. Especially considering I dumped all of my money into this TV the last thing I want to do is spend hundreds more. I bought the Samsung 1080p7 and the upconversion was terrible. 1080P was so grainy. I exchanged it for the Song DVP-NS77H and 1080P still sucks. I've just set the resolution to 480P and let the TV do the unconverting which looks much better. I don't quite understand why brand new, high rated players would do the upconverting worse than an outdated TV. If I go and buy the Oppo is it really gonna be that much better than the samsung and sony? Will it upconvert better than my DLP? Also if I'm going to invest this much into a DVD player would it just be best to buy a PS3 or is it not a good player?
Yes the Samsung 1080P7 output has lots of digital noise, and problems with dark reds and locks up also. The Sony DVP-NS77H 1080P output is a lot better, but you can still see some slight digital noise, actually using 1080i was better. The new Oppo 980H 1080P output shows almost no digital noise but that is dependent on your SD-DVD video quality. You would find that using Samsung's movie mode with a 980H outputing 1080P results in video a lot better then putting 480P out and letting your Samsung upscale to 1080P.

IAlso if I'm going to invest this much into a DVD player would it just be best to buy a PS3 or is it not a good player?
FWIW, I bought both a PS3 and the Oppo 981 when I built my system several months ago. The Oppo is very good (for the price) at upconverting DVD's to 1080p, however with the recent software updates to the PS3, the PS3 is now also a very formidable DVD player (with excellent 1080p upscaling) that also plays true HD content via Blu-Ray and oh yeah, it also plays games. :)

My Oppo is now for sale because it is redundant. :(

Personally I'd skip the Oppo and drop for a real high-def player for your great TV. The PS3 would be a good choice for the value but if you don't want a 'game' machine in your living room, the Samsung BD-1200 Blu-Ray player with the HQV scaler also does an awesome job upconverting DVD's to 1080p.

But...if you don't want to drop the coin for a PS3 or other HD unit, the Oppo is a great choice.

Good luck!

with the current price of HD DVD player being so low, I strongly suggest an HD-A2 as opposed to an Oppo player.

I agree with the others. I would not buy an upscaling player at this point in time. You're much better off getting a high def player (HD-DVD and/or BD).

The New Oppo 980 is a fair bit cheaper than the Toshiba HD player. If you're like me and don't want to support the format wars, go with an upscaling player for now and then get the format that wins (unlikely) or a dual format player when they get to $300 or less.

don't support the format war. forget about HD DVD. Just think about upconversion alone.

Oppo 981: $230
HD DVD A2(just use it for upconversion only... and the performance is actually better than the Oppo: $300

A no brainer to me.

don't support the format war. forget about HD DVD. Just think about upconversion alone.

Oppo 981: $230
HD DVD A2(just use it for upconversion only... and the performance is actually better than the Oppo: $300

A no brainer to me.Except he has a DLP so get a Oppo 980H for $169, even cheaper and good enough to ignore the format wars for awhile!

Wonder how long it will be until we see a dual format universal player for $500? ;)

First off I have to say I'm shocked how helpful everyone here has been. I'm new here but I've hung out at different forums in the past (for cars, video games, etc.) and I always ending up leaving due to how obnoxious the main posters were. I'm VERY impressed with this board.
Anyway first off I'll mention that while my DVE is coming in the mail I've only calibrated by my own taste at this point. Sure this isn't perfect due I do take my time and I think I have to set pretty good but these setting don't affect the digital noise really anyway so as far as upconversion goes I'm not too worries about the TV's picture settings.
As for my choice in a DVD player I should have mentioned originally that I will not get involved in the format war. I could rant about why but I'll save that for another thread. I will stick to simply upconverting DVDs. With the right setup the quality is good enough. I'm really considering a PS3 because besides being a great product it will be given updates consistently so it will only get better. I haven't seen it upconvert yet but even if it's only good now I'd have to imagine with time it will be great. Then again it is twice the cost of an Oppo and my main use with be for DVDs.
I was checking out the players on Oppo's website ans the 980 and 981 seem so similar I couldn't make out a clear choice. They say they recommend the 980 for DLPs but they don't say why. How do you guys compare these two?

Sorry, but I disagree with much of the advice. You can buy a Tosh A2 for $199, and not only does it upconvert SD DVDs as well as any Oppo, it also plays HD-DVDs (which will blow away any upscaled SD DVD). I rent most of my HD-DVDs at Netflix, so it's not like you have to invest in new software. I just do not see the value of an upscaling player today, unless you can only afford $50 on a player.

The 980 is preferred over the 981 with DLPs due to macroblocking errors with Faroudja players (ie, the 981).

They say they recommend the 980 for DLPs but they don't say why. How do you guys compare these two?
As BillP suggested, the 980 would be a better choice since the 981's chipset has issues with macroblocking when viewed on DLP displays. Of course, the 980 also uses the Mediatek chipset which is the same chipset used in the Sony DVP-NS77H...

As BillP suggested, the 980 would be a better choice since the 981's chipset has issues with macroblocking when viewed on DLP displays. Of course, the 980 also uses the Mediatek chipset which is the same chipset used in the Sony DVP-NS77H...And since I have both the Sony DVP-NS77H ($99) and the Oppo 980H ($169) I use with a DLP I can verify that you will have a less grainy PQ at 1080P with the 980H. They are both good players, but the Oppo 980H zoom features, fast startup, and universal player features make it worth the extra $70.

Some other members have compared the Toshiba HD-A2 ($250) to the Oppo 980H upconversion PQ and found it to be similar. The only real advantage of using the HD-A2 is to play HD-DVD movies if desired.

Sorry, but I disagree with much of the advice. You can buy a Tosh A2 for $199, and not only does it upconvert SD DVDs as well as any Oppo, it also plays HD-DVDs (which will blow away any upscaled SD DVD). I rent most of my HD-DVDs at Netflix, so it's not like you have to invest in new software. I just do not see the value of an upscaling player today, unless you can only afford $50 on a player.
This debate is almost as bad as the format wars one. Everyone has their respective preferences on how they view or procure DVD's. Some rent, some rent and buy, and some only buy. I actually fall into the buy camp and usually buy a few new issues, and mostly watch for weekly sales on heavily discounted DVD's. For myself I do see the value of upscaling players because it allows me not to make sizable investment in HD or BR gear yet, until the format wars settles out. ;)
Cheers

For myself I do see the value of upscaling players because it allows me not to make sizable investment in HD or BR gear yet, until the format wars settles out. ;)
Cheers
Understood, but the format war may never settle out, so a wait-and-see policy may never end (IMO, both formats are here for many years, and the war will be rendered moot with the popularity of dual-format players next year -- waiting for a dual format player actually lends support to your argument to wait for now).

So is it the chipset that mainly defines the picture quality? What other factors are important? From what I gather the Faroudja is best for LCDs and plasmas while mediatek is best for DLP. Basically what I'm really wondering is that if my 77H already has the mediatek how different is the picture on the 980H going to be? Lots of questions but I just really want to get the most out of my theater!

So is it the chipset that mainly defines the picture quality? What other factors are important? From what I gather the Faroudja is best for LCDs and plasmas while mediatek is best for DLP. Basically what I'm really wondering is that if my 77H already has the mediatek how different is the picture on the 980H going to be? Lots of questions but I just really want to get the most out of my theater!

The chipset used to decode MPEG2 (DVD-Video) and to scale (upconvert) standard definition video to a high definition signal is one of many factors. The engineers that design and tweak the implementation of the chipsets, the quality of the other associated components within the system, etc. makes a difference as well. Just because two units have chipsets from the same manufacturer does not mean they will have the same PQ.

Faroudja chipset based upconverting DVD players are generally not good for most DLP and plasma displays because of the macroblocking artifacts that tend to occur for a variety of reasons.

Faroudja chipset based upconverting DVD players are generally not good for DLP or plasma displays because of macroblocking artifacts that tend to occur for a variety of reasons.

I use a Sony CRT RPTV and I also get severe macroblocking artifacts from Faroudja based scalers.

I use a Sony CRT RPTV and I also get severe macroblocking artifacts from Faroudja based scalers.Same here! My DV-980H is scheduled to arrive this Friday! :)

don't support the format war. forget about HD DVD. Just think about upconversion alone.

Oppo 981: $230
HD DVD A2(just use it for upconversion only... and the performance is actually better than the Oppo: $300

A no brainer to me.

HD-A2 is $239.99 + free shipping on Amazon.com . There's your no-brainer.

HD-A2 is $239.99 + free shipping on Amazon.com . There's your no-brainer.Except if you are going to spend some money at least get a HD-A20 ($324.99 Amazon) or in September the new HD-A30 with 1080P/24 support, both use the excellent Reon HQV video processor for upconversion instead of unknown processor by Toshiba.

The Toshiba HD-A1/2/3 are all 1080i output players.

The Oppo 980/981 series are universal players and play DVD-Audio/SACD's, and the Toshiba HD-A2 can't.

Except if you are going to spend some money at least get a HD-A20 ($324.99 Amazon) or in September the new HD-A30 with 1080P/24 support, both use the excellent Reon HQV video processor for upconversion instead of unknown processor by Toshiba.

The Toshiba HD-A1/2/3 are all 1080i output players.

The Oppo 980/981 series are universal players and play DVD-Audio/SACD's, and the Toshiba HD-A2 can't.

1. There is no confirmation that the A30 will be using Reon HQV
2. HD-A2 upconvert SD DVD better than the Oppo (I have one, now relegated as my bedroom player). HD-A1 upconverts better than the HD-A2. So if you can get an HD-A1 for $200, then it's a very good deal over Oppo, provided you don't need SACD or DVD-A (in my case, I don't).

I don't mean to start a flame war and I don't have a preference to either format, but isn't BR kicking HD butt right now in distrubution? When I saw that Target, the nations 2nd largest retailer behind Wal Mart was only going to sell BR's, I figured that was the begining of the end for HD, hence the lower prices on HD players.
Personally, I would think an HD player has a good chance of going the way of Beta Max player.

I don't mean to start a flame war and I don't have a preference to either format, but isn't BR kicking HD butt right now in distrubution? When I saw that Target, the nations 2nd largest retailer behind Wal Mart was only going to sell BR's, I figured that was the begining of the end for HD, hence the lower prices on HD players.
Personally, I would think an HD player has a good chance of going the way of Beta Max player.Hey are you trying to get this discussion closed! :eek:

IMHO thats a Taboo subject that doesn't belong in DVD players (Standard Def) topic at all. ;)

1. There is no confirmation that the A30 will be using Reon HQV
2. HD-A2 upconvert SD DVD better than the Oppo (I have one, now relegated as my bedroom player). HD-A1 upconverts better than the HD-A2. So if you can get an HD-A1 for $200, then it's a very good deal over Oppo, provided you don't need SACD or DVD-A (in my case, I don't).
1) Well its a best guess on the A30 having the same video processor, but your right we don't know yet.

2) I always wondered how we can compare a HD-A2 to a Oppo 980H. The HD-A2 outputs 1080i versus Oppo 1080P. Now this is all dependent on your display too. So how much PQ difference would there be between the two at 1080i HDMI output then scaled by a 1080P display?

What about the region-free aspect? Doesn't anyone have import DVD's anymore, or just me? :(

I know there are no regions on HD/BR DVD's, but I sure wish someone would make a player that could play BR AND region free SD...

Until then, I'm staying clear of the format war, and Oppo is my friend!

Hey are you trying to get this discussion closed! :eek:

IMHO thats a Taboo subject that doesn't belong in DVD players (Standard Def) topic at all. ;)

Well, it's just everyone is telling this guy to go out and get an HD player which may not have much in titles in the future.
It is something to consider.

Well, it's just everyone is telling this guy to go out and get an HD player which may not have much in titles in the future.
It is something to consider.


Who cares about the future HD titles? There is nothing to be considered when you just want to upscale SD DVD.

The OP made it clear that he's NOT INTO THE FORMAT WAR and all he wants to do is UPSCALE HIS SD DVD. From that stand point, get an HD DVD player since its upscaling capability is better than any of the Oppo for only a little bit more. BD players can scale as good as an HD DVD player too, but its price is double of an HD DVD player.

2) I always wondered how we can compare a HD-A2 to a Oppo 980H. The HD-A2 outputs 1080i versus Oppo 1080P. Now this is all dependent on your display too. So how much PQ difference would there be between the two at 1080i HDMI output then scaled by a 1080P display?

I may be blind, but A/B comparison between XA2 playing HD DVD vs A1 playing the same HD DVD title (the same title playing simultaneously on both machine), I can't see a lick of difference. Now the upscaling of the XA2, on the other hand... is drool inducing, but it's far too much money for the OP's intended budget.

The most I've tested is the Oppo vs HD-A1 vs HD-A2. The difference between HD-A1 and HD-A2 is only (very) apparent when it's A/B tested. However, the difference between the Oppo and the A1/A2, on my display, is almost night and day. Some titles such as Cars are "almost HD" on the A1/A2, but on the Oppo, IMHO, is just "far better than SD DVD"

Again, this is VERY display dependent. I can only post based on my own experience.

Sorry, I thought the Oppo player was about $160 and the players being discussed were in the $240 to $340 range.

Sorry, I thought the Oppo player was about $160 and the players being discussed were in the $240 to $340 range.Right the 980H player is only $169.

I don't mean to start a flame war and I don't have a preference to either format, but isn't BR kicking HD butt right now in distrubution? When I saw that Target, the nations 2nd largest retailer behind Wal Mart was only going to sell BR's, I figured that was the begining of the end for HD, hence the lower prices on HD players.
Personally, I would think an HD player has a good chance of going the way of Beta Max player.
You've been reading too many BD fanboy posts. Both formats are here for years to come. And Target will still sell HD-DVD players (at least online) -- Sony is just paying for the end-cap displays. And Tosh has already announced their 3rd-generation players for later this year. So no, HD-DVD is not going anywhere. (In case you're wondering, I own both formats.)

1) Well its a best guess on the A30 having the same video processor, but your right we don't know yet.

2) I always wondered how we can compare a HD-A2 to a Oppo 980H. The HD-A2 outputs 1080i versus Oppo 1080P. Now this is all dependent on your display too. So how much PQ difference would there be between the two at 1080i HDMI output then scaled by a 1080P display?
1080i / 1080p...whatever...same thing...as long as your display deinterlaces properly...don't get fooled by clever marketing.

A2 is better than any Oppo with SD. I had Oppo's top of the line 981. Then returned it when I got the A2.

For SD, any Toshiba HD player is better than any Oppo. THERE'S NO COMPARISON!!!

Plus, why would Toshiba put a Reon processor in the a30? a30 is not toshiba's top player.

1080i / 1080p...whatever...same thing...as long as your display deinterlaces properly...don't get fooled by clever marketing.

A2 is better than any Oppo with SD. I had Oppo's top of the line 981. Then returned it when I got the A2.

For SD, any Toshiba HD player is better than any Oppo. THERE'S NO COMPARISON!!!

Plus, why would Toshiba put a Reon processor in the a30? a30 is not toshiba's top player.True there is a lot of hype but a 1080P display has a sharper and smoother PQ then a 1080i display.

Everybody has different tastes and requirements in DVD players depending on your display, you found yours.

There use to be a lot of price variance in HD-DVD Toshiba players but not true for the new 3rd generation line up consisting of the HD-A3 ($299), HD-A30 ($399) and top of the line HD-A35 ($499). If the A30 doesn't have Reon then I recommend whichever one does.

Per CraveNet (http://crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-9755359-1.html) "The other unanswered question on the new Toshibas is their video processing. The previous high-end HD-XA2 model delivered a magnificent DVD upscaler, courtesy of HQV's Reon chipset, but retailed for a hefty $800--at least initially. But with the HQV name not touted in Toshiba's press release--and the fact that it still commands a premium price tag--we're wondering if there will be an HQV-powered HD-XA3 announced at CEDIA this year, or if the line tops out at the A35. Of course, the initial press release for the HD-XA2 didn't mention HQV, so it may be included in the HD-A35 after all."

My real preference still is to wait until dual format players become more available next year.

The Oppo was a no brainier for me. I want DIVX, Region 0, PAL to NTSC and I'm so used to seamless layer changes I can't go back to those damn pauses that you'll get on the Toshiba HD's (for standard DVD's). I'm only using my Oppo 980 in 480i mode, via HDMI and the video is dramatically increased; much more than I thought it would be, from my former LG player.

Jeff

I've got to say the A2 just doesn't seem worth it. I bought a 1080P TV because I wanted the latest and greatest in HD. Spending hundreds for a player that upconverts to 1080i seems silly. Sure the difference between progressive and interlaced is negligible but for that money I want the player to offer better upscaling than my TV. With the A2 my TV would still be doing work to bring the picture to 1080P. If I was OK with relying on my TVs capabilities alone I'd just stick with the 1080p7 or 77H and keep them in 480P. I could be wrong but it just seems like a bad idea to have both the player and the TV doing the scaling together, it should be either one or the other. It seems to me that mixing them would only lower what PQ the display is capable of. Like I said I could be wrong.
So anyway my goal is just to find a 1080P player that scales better than my TV. At this point the PS3 is really looking like a good idea. I can get one for about $300 if I get it used and trade in my PS2. That's more than I wanted to spend on a DVD player but since it offers so much more it might be worth the investment. What are everyone's feelings on the PS3?

I've got to say the A2 just doesn't seem worth it. I bought a 1080P TV because I wanted the latest and greatest in HD. Spending hundreds for a player that upconverts to 1080i seems silly. Sure the difference between progressive and interlaced is negligible but for that money I want the player to offer better upscaling than my TV. With the A2 my TV would still be doing work to bring the picture to 1080P. If I was OK with relying on my TVs capabilities alone I'd just stick with the 1080p7 or 77H and keep them in 480P. I could be wrong but it just seems like a bad idea to have both the player and the TV doing the scaling together, it should be either one or the other. It seems to me that mixing them would only lower what PQ the display is capable of. Like I said I could be wrong.
So anyway my goal is just to find a 1080P player that scales better than my TV. At this point the PS3 is really looking like a good idea. I can get one for about $300 if I get it used and trade in my PS2. That's more than I wanted to spend on a DVD player but since it offers so much more it might be worth the investment. What are everyone's feelings on the PS3?

What is your display? if it actually 1920 x 1080? Most Plasmas don't have that resolution. 1080 yes, but 1920? many of them are 1440.

My brother owns a PS3 (but connected to SDTV), to me it's loud and I don't like the looks at all. That's why I'm sticking with my Sammy 1000 for the time being (although its upscaling sucks big time).

I've got to say the A2 just doesn't seem worth it. I bought a 1080P TV because I wanted the latest and greatest in HD. Spending hundreds for a player that upconverts to 1080i seems silly. Sure the difference between progressive and interlaced is negligible but for that money I want the player to offer better upscaling than my TV. With the A2 my TV would still be doing work to bring the picture to 1080P. If I was OK with relying on my TVs capabilities alone I'd just stick with the 1080p7 or 77H and keep them in 480P. I could be wrong but it just seems like a bad idea to have both the player and the TV doing the scaling together, it should be either one or the other. It seems to me that mixing them would only lower what PQ the display is capable of. Like I said I could be wrong.
So anyway my goal is just to find a 1080P player that scales better than my TV. At this point the PS3 is really looking like a good idea. I can get one for about $300 if I get it used and trade in my PS2. That's more than I wanted to spend on a DVD player but since it offers so much more it might be worth the investment. What are everyone's feelings on the PS3?

Have you considered the HD A20? It's $330 and outputs 1080p.

What is your display? if it actually 1920 x 1080? Most Plasmas don't have that resolution. 1080 yes, but 1920? many of them are 1440.

My brother owns a PS3 (but connected to SDTV), to me it's loud and I don't like the looks at all. That's why I'm sticking with my Sammy 1000 for the time being (although its upscaling sucks big time).Original message from delsoul mentioned HLS5087W display which is a Samsung 50" 1080P DLP.

What are everyone's feelings on the PS3?
Just do it. If you are looking to spend ~$300 that is a pretty good value compared with the pricing of upscaling SD DVD players or most of the HD-DVD units mentioned in this thread. Don't forget to get the bluetooth remote if you go with the PS3.

Although the PS3's upscaling with the new firmware is excellent, just remember that any SD content scaled to 52" will not be perfect.

I've got to say the A2 just doesn't seem worth it. I bought a 1080P TV because I wanted the latest and greatest in HD. Spending hundreds for a player that upconverts to 1080i seems silly. Sure the difference between progressive and interlaced is negligible but for that money I want the player to offer better upscaling than my TV. With the A2 my TV would still be doing work to bring the picture to 1080P. If I was OK with relying on my TVs capabilities alone I'd just stick with the 1080p7 or 77H and keep them in 480P. I could be wrong but it just seems like a bad idea to have both the player and the TV doing the scaling together, it should be either one or the other. It seems to me that mixing them would only lower what PQ the display is capable of. Like I said I could be wrong.


Your 1080p TV won't be doing any scaling whether it is fed a 1080i signal or a 1080p signal. The video frame resolution is 1920x1080 for both. Your set simply has to de-interlace 1080i for your TV to display its 1080p native scan rate. Most of the newer decent quality sets do a great job of this, especially with digital (HDMI) video signals from film based content. You are not likely to see any real difference at all between a 1080i signal and a 1080p signal on a 50" DLP. It will look excellent either way.

The HD-A2 is primarily a HD DVD player, and is an excellent value at less than $230 shipped (Amazon). It happens to be a great upscaling DVD player, too... but this is really a secondary function. If you want to have 1080p output, have a look at the HD-A20 instead.

If you aren't ready to go high def (HD DVD or Blu-Ray), consider the new $169 Oppo DV-980HD (yes, it is worth it)

I've got to say the A2 just doesn't seem worth it. I bought a 1080P TV because I wanted the latest and greatest in HD. Spending hundreds for a player that upconverts to 1080i seems silly. Sure the difference between progressive and interlaced is negligible but for that money I want the player to offer better upscaling than my TV. With the A2 my TV would still be doing work to bring the picture to 1080P. If I was OK with relying on my TVs capabilities alone I'd just stick with the 1080p7 or 77H and keep them in 480P. I could be wrong but it just seems like a bad idea to have both the player and the TV doing the scaling together, it should be either one or the other. It seems to me that mixing them would only lower what PQ the display is capable of. Like I said I could be wrong.
So anyway my goal is just to find a 1080P player that scales better than my TV. At this point the PS3 is really looking like a good idea. I can get one for about $300 if I get it used and trade in my PS2. That's more than I wanted to spend on a DVD player but since it offers so much more it might be worth the investment. What are everyone's feelings on the PS3?
I guarantee you cannot tell the difference between sending your 1080p display a 1080i or a 1080p signal -- all your display has to do is deinterlace 1080i. I also guarantee you cannot see any difference between PQ with the PS3 or A2 (if comparing a BD and HD-DVD version of the same movie). And I own both players.

1080i / 1080p...whatever...same thing...as long as your display deinterlaces properly...don't get fooled by clever marketing.

A2 is better than any Oppo with SD. I had Oppo's top of the line 981. Then returned it when I got the A2.

For SD, any Toshiba HD player is better than any Oppo. THERE'S NO COMPARISON!!!

Plus, why would Toshiba put a Reon processor in the a30? a30 is not toshiba's top player.
True there is a lot of hype but a 1080P display has a sharper and smoother PQ then a 1080i display.
I'm not sure we're on the same page. I wasn't comparing 1080p/i displays, only the feed from the dvd player. And comparing 1080p and 1080i displays is comparing apples to oranges since there are no 1080i LCD/Plasmas or 1080p CRTs.

I also guarantee you cannot see any difference between PQ with the PS3 or A2 (if comparing a BD and HD-DVD version of the same movie). And I own both players.

Not true. The following titles are better on HD DVD than BD.

Brothers Grimm
Total Recall
Basic Instinct
Terminator 2

I vote 60G PS3 for $499 due to 1) very fast BD player, 2) very good SD upconversion, 3) games, 4) downloads (WiFi or Ethernet) game demos, trailers in HD or SD, future PPV movies, 5) USB/flash media support, 6) SACD support, 7) Media box/stream from network or from hard drive, 8) Web browser, 9) Frequent and easy firmware updates, 10) easy upgrades (HD swap, USB HD, bluetooth, etc.)

Oppo offers 30D MBG (minus shipping to and fro of course--unless buying from Amazon then "to" shipping is free) so you could try the 980HD and return if you don't like it.

I'm not sure we're on the same page. I wasn't comparing 1080p/i displays, only the feed from the dvd player.Ok wasn't sure you were discussing DVD players output or general comparison of 1080i versus 1080p. :cool:

don't support the format war. forget about HD DVD. Just think about upconversion alone.

Oppo 981: $230
HD DVD A2(just use it for upconversion only... and the performance is actually better than the Oppo: $300

A no brainer to me.
In my opnion, OPPO is still better than A2 on upconverting. Toshiba is going to release his thrid generation A3. A1 and A2 is already out of date. :)

Does the PS3 play DVD-Audio discs? If not that is a strike against it.

Does the PS3 play DVD-Audio discs? If not that is a strike against it.No, see this LINK (http://www.us.playstation.com/News/PressReleases/279) for complete specs at bottom of page. You should know that Sony only support SACD.

Not true. The following titles are better on HD DVD than BD.

Brothers Grimm
Total Recall
Basic Instinct
Terminator 2
Likely due to different codecs used by the studio. But we're on the same page -- I was responding to a post claining the PS3 would look better than HD-DVD due to the usual BD specs nonsense that have failed to show up in actual PQ.

Does the PS3 play DVD-Audio discs? If not that is a strike against it.
No Sony player will ever play DVD-A (the PS3 does play SACD, however).

And comparing 1080p and 1080i displays is comparing apples to oranges since there are no 1080i LCD/Plasmas or 1080p CRTs.True, but lets not forget about all the various types of RPD's out there that are 1080i (LED, LCOS, DLP, CRT and so on), and LCD, DLP, LCOS Projectors. There are a lot of variables when it comes to displays it seems.
wha???
Dude, I think you need to read up a little on this stuff. LCoS, DLP & LCD are progressive formats. They are NOT 1080i. And what is LED? Do you mean the LED backlighting?

I've learned from this thread that HD-DVD and Blu-Ray players upconvert noticeably better than even the best DVD players. What exactly do these players have that make the PQ on SD DVDs so much better? Also what kind of chipset do the PS3 and Toshiba players use?

I've learned from this thread that HD-DVD and Blu-Ray players upconvert noticeably better than even the best DVD players. What exactly do these players have that make the PQ on SD DVDs so much better? Also what kind of chipset do the PS3 and Toshiba players use?
It's just better software and/or hardware. The Toshiba XA2 has the Reon and the PS3 has that Cell processor.

wha???
Dude, I think you need to read up a little on this stuff. LCoS, DLP & LCD are progressive formats. They are NOT 1080i. And what is LED? Do you mean the LED backlighting?Opps meant D-ILA (not LED), which was just a another name for LCoS, and yes your right when I went back and checked only CRT based displays supported 1080i. :rolleyes:

Now getting back to the subject of "Is Oppo worth it" What bothered you so much about the Oppo 981HD versus the Toshiba HD-A2? Was it the $$$, or that you considered getting a HD-DVD player a better option with comparable PQ? I assume the universal player aspect of Oppo 981HD was unimportant to you.

Opps meant D-ILA (not LED), which was just a another name for LCoS, and yes your right when I went back and checked only CRT based displays supported 1080i. :rolleyes:

Now getting back to the subject of "Is Oppo worth it" What bothered you so much about the Oppo 981HD versus the Toshiba HD-A2? Was it the $$$, or that you considered getting a HD-DVD player a better option with comparable PQ? I assume the universal player aspect of Oppo 981HD was unimportant to you.
Considering the price of the 981 was similar to the A2, why not buy something that plays the next generation DVDs? In fact, the A2 costs less b/c of the 5 free HD-DVD mail in rebate. The ability to play DivX, SACD and DVD-A was not that important to me. I've never even seen an SACD or DVD-A disc...Only know one person who has DVD-A and SACD discs.
Don't let anyone tell you that the Oppo's playback PQ is better than the A2 SD playback. That is simply untrue. One may argue equivalent. But better? Hell no!!!!

FYI: 981 is not so universal considering it won't play properly on 20% of plasmas on the market. That's right, 20%. (Panasonic/Faroudja macroblocking nonsense.) I don't know why so many people bought a defective product.

Considering the price of the 981 was similar to the A2, why not buy something that plays the next generation DVDs? In fact, the A2 costs less b/c of the 5 free HD-DVD mail in rebate. The ability to play DivX, SACD and DVD-A was not that important to me. I've never even seen an SACD or DVD-A disc...Only know one person who has DVD-A and SACD discs.
Don't let anyone tell you that the Oppo's playback PQ is better than the A2 SD playback. That is simply untrue. One may argue equivalent. But better? Hell no!!!!

FYI: 981 is not so universal considering it won't play properly on 20% of plasmas on the market. That's right, 20%. (Panasonic/Faroudja macroblocking nonsense.) I don't know why so many people bought a defective product.Well knowing the issues of the 981HD with macroblocking, so I also wasn't looking at the Oppo DVD players until the 980H came out.

I was just looking for a decent low cost upscaling player that didn't suffer from digital noise issues or macroblocking when scaled to 1080i or 1080P basically. So I tried the 980H later on and was actually impressed with the PQ when used with my 61" DLP. I think as you said its not worth debating the subtle upconversion differences between to A2 and the 980H as their different feature sets seem to serve a slightly different part of the market. But I do think that the 980H paired later with a dual format HD/BR DVD player will work out fine for me. I was one of the early investors in DVD players back when they were very expensive, and knowing how fast prices slide I don't want to pay through the nose now, and then a year from now see it at half price.

BTW those free five titles that Toshiba offers I already have almost all of them in SD-DVD format so no attraction there. ;)

I agree with the others. I would not buy an upscaling player at this point in time. You're much better off getting a high def player (HD-DVD and/or BD).The exception is if you want an all around media player....HD-DVD players are only good for DVD's and HD-DVD's. I can throw just about anything in my Oppo 970HD and it plays...including very good sound with cd's

The HD-DVD players also play CDs.

. I was one of the early investors in DVD players back when they were very expensive, and knowing how fast prices slide I don't want to pay through the nose now, and then a year from now see it at half price.

;)


Amen! :D

The HD-DVD players also play CDs.

Sorry, was following this discussion and just wanted to add this: The Oppos are easily made region free and do no-hassle pal/ntsc conversion--one of their biggest points of appeal for those owning a lot of foreign/pal dvds's, or interested in going that route--Something most domestic hd dvd/bd players can't claim.

Sorry, was following this discussion and just wanted to add this: The Oppos are easily made region free and do no-hassle pal/ntsc conversion--one of their biggest points of appeal for those owning a lot of foreign/pal dvds's, or interested in going that route--Something most domestic hd dvd/bd players can't claim.
Don't know about pal SD DVDs, but my understanding is that there are no regions for HD-DVDs (European HD-DVDs should play fine in US HD-DVD players). Don't think that is true for BD.

Don't know about pal SD DVDs, but my understanding is that there are no regions for HD-DVDs (European HD-DVDs should play fine in US HD-DVD players). Don't think that is true for BD.

I think he's saying that none of the HD-DVD or Blu-Ray players can be made region free for SD-DVD. As far as I know that is true.

-Bill

I think what you see from the posts here is that the OPPO players value now comes more from their capabilities as a universal player (region free, pal, dvd-a, sacd) than from any significant video performance advantgage.

They have been equalled or eclipsed by the Toshiba A2 and their equivalents, D2, A2W, and A2C... I had the 981 and it was a poor experience I tried it both on an HP DLP, and a Panny Plasma. For DLP or Plasma I could not recommend it all.

I had a 970 and it would not reliably play audio cds. I sent it back and got the 981 and it was a PITA. I think what many here are trying to say is that Tosh A2 stands on its own on a price performance basis as an SD DVD player against the Oppo even if you never play an HD DVD in it. On the other hand if you rent from Netflix you can choose to throw an HD DVD into your queue from time to time.. The only risk is you will get so you don't want to watch SD period even when upscaled very well.

I have an XA2 and A2.. I paide $199 for the A2... If I am going to watch SD I will probably use the XA2 to get that last little bit out of it... but I just don't watch much SD anymore. I buy HD if it is really cheap on sale. But mostly I just rent.

I think what you see from the posts here is that the OPPO players value now comes more from their capabilities as a universal player (region free, pal, dvd-a, sacd) than from any significant video performance advantgage.

They have been equalled or eclipsed by the Toshiba A2 and their equivalents, D2, A2W, and A2C... I had the 981 and it was a poor experience I tried it both on an HP DLP, and a Panny Plasma. For DLP or Plasma I could not recommend it all.

I had a 970 and it would not reliably play audio cds. I sent it back and got the 981 and it was a PITA. I think what many here are trying to say is that Tosh A2 stands on its own on a price performance basis as an SD DVD player against the Oppo even if you never play an HD DVD in it. On the other hand if you rent from Netflix you can choose to throw an HD DVD into your queue from time to time.. The only risk is you will get so you don't want to watch SD period even when upscaled very well.

I have an XA2 and A2.. I paide $199 for the A2... If I am going to watch SD I will probably use the XA2 to get that last little bit out of it... but I just don't watch much SD anymore. I buy HD if it is really cheap on sale. But mostly I just rent.
Several people have commented about the macro blocking issues of Oppo 981HD for use with DLP or Plasma's as you say. So they return the 981HD and get a HD-A2 when the prices were cheaper, they aren't really anymore, prices have gone up unless you get a refurbish HD-A2 (no thanks). Major complaints with 981HD were poor PQ probably caused by macro blocking bug even with calibration. The Oppo 970 was without the macro-blocking issue, but was not attractive in appearance, had a flimsy tray (even though it never broke), and only scaled to 1080i.

Between the Oppo 971HD, 970H, and 981HD for DLP/Plasma owners there wasn't a big love fest happening.

Earlier I said I didn't like the appearance of the silver 970H either, and was wondering why the only player without macro blocking issues they offered was stuck at 1080i?

Well my opinion changed a few weeks later with news about the Oppo 980H. I was using a Sony NS77H and PQ was great at 1080i, but still some digital noise that I noticed at 1080P, enough for me to prefer 1080i on my large 61" 1080P DLP display. The first thing that attracted me to the Oppo 980H was the appearance it was Black (matched all my AV gear), had a larger DVD tray (not flimsy looking), and supported 1080P finally!

I got the 980H a couple of weeks later and fired it up to watch the same movies I had used to critic the Sony NS-77H and was immediately impressed with the sharp 1080P PQ seen . . there was essentially no digital noise! For someone looking for a decent low cost upconversion player I was quite pleased.

Now I know there are people ticked with the performance of the 981HD with DLP and plasma displays and switched to a Toshiba HD-A2, D2, A20, and so on. But I have to honestly say for the money the $169 Oppo 980H gives very good upscaling, without any of the PQ problems observed with the 981HD, that people have described for DLP or Plasma owners.

Now if only Oppo was to improve the 981HD!

The Oppos are extremely good SD dvd players with some nice features and a lot of input from end users. Of course one has to know what one wants. If an HD disc format is desired then that changes one's available choices. If one wants for the forseeable future SD DVD alone then the Oppos are a worthy choice. The MediaTek-based 970HD and 980H will do quite well in any system. The 981HD may have some macroblock-enhance issues with Panasonic plasmas.

This sort of reminds me when I bought my first stereo system. I could have spent a larger percentage on speakers and sacrificed performance with the other hardware. Instead high-performance headphones were bought instead. To this day any serious listening by me is done with headphones.

The Oppo is a great product with incredible customer service and return policy.

As BillP suggested, the 980 would be a better choice since the 981's chipset has issues with macroblocking when viewed on DLP displays. Of course, the 980 also uses the Mediatek chipset which is the same chipset used in the Sony DVP-NS77H...

It's not the same chip, but it is from Mediatek but custom designed for Oppo.
See the ongoing thread on the 980.

I have been ready to pull the trigger on the OPPO981 due to the sacd and dvd-a over HDMI. The only thing I was not a fan of is the conversion of DSD to LPCM. It seems the 980 addressed that as well as better cosmetics for 90.00 less. I currently am in the BD camp and am very tempted by the 199.00 hddvd's, so I do not care about absolute video quality (currently running a Toshiba 50 HDX82-1080i). It seems the best way to look at this player is a digital transport for use with external audio/video scalers. Supporting DIVX is another plus.

The only thing I was not a fan of is the conversion of DSD to LPCM. Just curious, why is that?

larry

FWIW, I bought both a PS3 and the Oppo 981 when I built my system several months ago. The Oppo is very good (for the price) at upconverting DVD's to 1080p, however with the recent software updates to the PS3, the PS3 is now also a very formidable DVD player (with excellent 1080p upscaling) that also plays true HD content via Blu-Ray and oh yeah, it also plays games. :)

My Oppo is now for sale because it is redundant. :(

Personally I'd skip the Oppo and drop for a real high-def player for your great TV. The PS3 would be a good choice for the value but if you don't want a 'game' machine in your living room, the Samsung BD-1200 Blu-Ray player with the HQV scaler also does an awesome job upconverting DVD's to 1080p.

But...if you don't want to drop the coin for a PS3 or other HD unit, the Oppo is a great choice.

Good luck!
But can you make a PS3 region Free?

Folks,

Can the BD or HD-DVD player play DVD+-R or even DVD+R DL discs??? I know the Oppo can. This feature is just as important for me.

Thanks,
Govee

I've just watched an HD DVD formatted DVD+R DL disc last night on my A1. My Samsung 1000 doesn't like it.

Thanks. Strange is that I had the Toshy A1 earlier and it played may be 5 out of 10 DVD+R DL's (they were the Memorex). One time, it was stuck in the tray and I ended up opening the cover so I can manually pop the tray out to get the DVD. I returned the unit a few days later because of this reason.

Anyone had the same problem as me? How about the Oppo? Is it more successfull playing the DVD+R DL?

maybe because it's Memorex? It's one of the worst brands out there. I use Verbatim and never had a problem. I ALWAYS have problems with Memorex. Bought a spindle of 10, only 1 works.

Never had a problem with my Memorex DVD+Rs