I know that the topic of Batman Begins being too soft has been discussed quite a bit, but have we confirmed that Warner actually did something during the transfer process?

I wanted to know more about this after downloading the Batman Begins 1080p trailer...the footage is so much vibrant and sharper compared to what is on the HD-DVD...see for yourself:

http://images.apple.com/movies/us/hd_gallery/gl1800/1080p/batman_begins_1080p.mov

I know that Nolan shot the film with some kind of softening lens, but according to this trailer, the effect wasn't as serious as the HD transfer would lead us to believe.

I, for one, have NEVER thought Batman Begins on HD-DVD has a soft picture at all. Most people I've seen talk on these forums hasn't even brought that up, either. I take it you've read more posts than I, though.

I prefer to use Batman Begins as a reference disc more than any other in my 30-some HD-DVD title collection. Even over King Kong.

VC-1 2:19:54 19,857,584,128* 26,635,886,280 18.92 13.87 Dolby TrueHD 5.1 16-bit Yes DDPlus 5.1 640Kbps

The scanned video bit rate is just 14 Mbps. Personally I love the movie but wasn't happy with the transfer. I am sure Warner is going to make us double-dip on the below titles.

1. Matrix Reloaded and Revolutions
2. Batman Begins
3. V for Vendetta
4. Superman Returns
5. Blood Diamond

Some of the exterior shots in Batman Begins looked fine.
For many it would have been the first org&sm with Hi-Def format that might have immediately brought the videophiles to a +ve conclusion.
But after watching so many reference titles it looks like a bit of let down.

As Morpheus believes "There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path" it's up to to techno prodigies like Xylon, Gooki, Francesco, Robert and Kram to give a meticulous verdict.

Batman Begins is not soft. Not as razor sharp, as say Training Day or Kong, but it still looks awesome. And Blood Diamond is a show-off title for me as well.

I am sure Warner is going to make us double-dip on the below titles.
1. Matrix Reloaded and Revolutions
2. Batman Begins
3. V for Vendetta
4. Superman Returns
5. Blood Diamond
There is about as much chance of the above as Sony releasing HD DVD.
None.

Batman Begins was soft???? Looked freakin awesome to me.

Soft, soft, soft, no pop at all for me.

Soft, soft, soft, no pop at all for me.
Same here, although it had a great amount of detail.

The HD DVD of Batman Begins definitely looks filtered when compared to the 1080p trailer. It looks as if the film's grain structure was completely removed. Filtering of any kind is a big no-no in my book, but the video quality of the HD DVD is very good nonetheless.

It's not Kong, but it is definitely not Superman Returns. Above average?

Take the images here:
http://www.hdmovies.co.nz/hddvd.php?id=Batman%20Begins

And compare them to your favourite movie which is hopefully also listed here http://www.hdmovies.co.nz/screenshots.php, and make your own conclusion.

One thing to note is the special effects were sent to film and then the whole film was digitalised to help blend them better.

The film transfer is not optimal. Since the film didn't utilize a Digital Intermediate the HD version was created from an IP instead of a closer source to the negative. Has nothing to do with vfx blending in better.

Based on my experience I think Warner would force us to double-dip on the below titles.

1. Blood Diamond
2. Superman Returns
3. Batman Begins

Based on my experience I think Warner would force us to double-dip on the below titles.

1. Blood Diamond
2. Superman Returns
3. Batman Begins
I don't care what they do to improve the video quality of those three titles, and I know for sure that I'm not double dipping any of them. What we have now is passable on my new 110" 1080p setup.

I don't care what they do to improve the video quality of those three titles, and I know for sure that I'm not double dipping any of them. What we have now is passable on my new 110" 1080p setup.

Agreed. Some of you people are WAY too over dramatic. Just because a picture looks nice on a 20" monitor does not mean it will look nice in your own home theater. You are too demanding.

1. Matrix Reloaded and Revolutions
2. Batman Begins
3. V for Vendetta
4. Superman Returns
5. Blood Diamond


1. I could see all 3 get from the Trilogy becoming singles
2. I want that on TL51
4. Isn't that going to be a reissue non combo like a few others

The film transfer is not optimal. Since the film didn't utilize a Digital Intermediate the HD version was created from an IP instead of a closer source to the negative. Has nothing to do with vfx blending in better.

Can you elaborate on this? Digital intermediate? IP?

This is the first time I've heard of these terms.

Can we have a open bet on a possible double dip for the below titles.

1. Matrix Reloaded and Revolutions
2. Batman Begins
3. Superman Returns

I think Warner will re-issue these titles.

This was the first film I got on HD-DVD and always felt a little underwhelmed by it. Certainly not a "bad" transfer and it has nice detail, but it's relatively soft and should have had more pop. Nice AQ, though.

What's wrong with being somewhat soft? Overly sharp images are not necessarily the litmus test for PQ. I think that the transfer is detailed enough to satisfy most viewers.

To me, detail is more important than sharpness, though I'd prefer both.

I personally think it looks great. It's one of the best looking discs of the 50 or so I own.

I think it looks great on my 92" screen.

The softness of the picture doesn't bother me as much as the basement of Arkham having an outgoing current to the entire city's water supply.

Soft, soft, soft, no pop at all for me.

I assume that is what Nolan had in mind when filming :rolleyes:

in all seriousness, BB is reference stuff folks, no two ways about it, audio and video both, to say otherwise is absurd ;)

-Gary

honestly, it looks like two things. 1 - it wasn't exactly material with a whole lot of "pop" in the first place, 2 - it's a soft transfer. it looks like it was filtered to remove noise and grain. the hd-dvd shows nearly no grain, and in the avc trailer it's very noticeable. if it was filtered for grain, it probably lost some apparent sharpness as a result, along with a chunk of high-frequency detail.

This honestly is one of the sharpest titles of the 80+ hddvd's I own. If this title is soft your tv is soft. If you have a rear projector you need to refocus your guns.

This honestly is one of the sharpest titles of the 80+ hddvd's I own. If this title is soft your tv is soft. If you have a rear projector you need to refocus your guns.

I have an ISF-calibrated sony 34XBR960, which is probably about as close as you can get to an industrial-grade monitor in your home for anything resembling a reasonable price. it's an incredibly scrutinizing display, and it will show you any of the flaws in just about anything (and a ton of detail in good discs, on the flip side of that coin)... batman begins is easily the softest HD-DVD i own. it has noticeably less detail than every other HD-DVD in my collection. still obviously more than standard DVD, but easily the softest HD-DVD.

Is no one just assuming that maybe the 1080p trailer was processed to increase the sharpness for what they probably assumed would be people sitting VERY close to a relatively small (24" or so) screen?

I'd venture a guess and say that the film was supposed to be softer, and if there is an issue, it was in how they processed the trailer for computer viewing. My computer is hooked up to my 1080p 37" LCD, and while it's certainly sharper than the HD-DVD, I think the HD-DVD looks better. It would be difficult on the eyes to watch something that sharp for two hours, I'd think.

Besides, Gotham was supposed to be kind of dark and gritty. You wouldn't want that world to "pop" as a filmmaker, I'd think.

The 1080p trailer definitely contains more detail but is less stable that the HD-DVD transfer, the steps outside the mansion shimmer like crazy on the trailer yet are 100% solid on the HD-DVD. Just compare Christian Bale's beard when he wakes up from his childhood memory.

The 1080p trailer definitely contains more detail but is less stable that the HD-DVD transfer, the steps outside the mansion shimmer like crazy on the trailer yet are 100% solid on the HD-DVD. Just compare Christian Bale's beard when he wakes up from his childhood memory.



Yup...Soft. Still very watchable, but I will never use this as a reference disk. Planet Earth is/are still my ref disk(s). Same with T3...My wife gave me the 'bla' noise after the 15 min. mark.

--D

I think that BB is one of the best looking HD discs out there. It isn't a cartoon folks.

Its amazing all this talk about what is "soft" and what is "pop" all the while no one knows what the source material was like.

Why can't some scenes be "soft" and others "sharp" based on, the lens used, the film stock, the film processing, the film grading, visual effects layers and then the final HD transfer for video mastering.