http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20070806006367&newsLang=en

I would love to know the ratio between HD & BD...

"Warner Home Video Breaks Another High Definition Record with ``300,'' the Fastest Selling Title with More Than 250K Copies Sold in Its First Full Week

BURBANK, Calif.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Today Warner Home Video (WHV) announced that it has the fastest and highest-selling high definition title in the market with the epic action-adventure, “300.” Since July 31, 2007, “300” has sold more than 250,000 copies to consumers on HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc.

“300” provides another high definition milestone for Warner Home Video which was the first studio to break the 100K sold mark with “The Departed.” Overall WHV has six of the top 10 selling high definition titles with “300,” “The Departed,” “Superman Returns,” “Planet Earth - The Complete Collection,” “Batman Begins,” and “Happy Feet.” Warner also has the highest grossing high definition title with the dual-format release of “Planet Earth.”

“‘300’ is an amazing film, and the high definition sales we are seeing underscores the positive business benefits of supporting both HD DVD and Blu-ray,” said Ron Sanders, President of Warner Home Video. “This phenomenal response to ‘300’ is the latest proof that our approach makes the most sense in today’s market and has enabled Warner Home Video to continue to lead the market in high definition sales.”

As a result of its dual format strategy, WHV has more than 30% market share of DVD sales in the high definition market, selling more high definition product and releasing more titles than any other studio. Because of two competing high definition formats in the market, it is widely recognized that hardware prices for both Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD have fallen faster than would normally be expected at this stage in the product cycle. However, research organizations, such as ABI Research(a), predict that further price reductions of hardware are needed to fuel mass adoption of high definition formats.

Based on the stylized graphic novel from icon Frank Miller (“Sin City”), “300” is an epic action-adventure about the 300 Spartan warriors led by the heroic King Leonidas who challenged Xerxes and his massive Persian army at the ancient Battle of Thermopylae. Leveraging the capabilities that the high definition formats enable, “300” on HD DVD incorporates exclusives interactive features. Any HD DVD player connected to the internet can take advantage of the web enabled features, which include the ability for viewers to pick their favorite scenes to assemble montages and share them with friends. Users can also rate scenes within the Warner connected community as well as purchase and collect wall paper and ring tones for mobile phones. Both Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD formats include additional bonus material.

Warner Home Video HD DVD and Blu-ray Discs offer resolution six times higher than standard definition DVDs, as well as extraordinarily vibrant contrast and color and beautifully crisp sound. The new formats also provide a higher level of interactivity, with instant access to extra features via a seamless menu-bar where viewers can enjoy features without leaving or interrupting the film.

With operations in 90 international territories, Warner Home Video, a Warner Bros. Entertainment Company, commands the largest distribution infrastructure in the global video marketplace. Warner Home Video's film library is the largest of any studio, offering top quality new and vintage titles from the repertoires of Warner Bros. Pictures, Turner Entertainment, Castle Rock Entertainment, HBO Home Video and New Line Home Entertainment. "

Pretty good for a terrible movie.

Good news though. Hopefully this record will be broken more and more frequently in the future to show that people are getting into HD.

As a result of its dual format strategy, WHV has more than 30% market share of DVD sales in the high definition market, selling more high definition product and releasing more titles than any other studio. Because of two competing high definition formats in the market, it is widely recognized that hardware prices for both Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD have fallen faster than would normally be expected at this stage in the product cycle. However, research organizations, such as ABI Research(a), predict that further price reductions of hardware are needed to fuel mass adoption of high definition formats.

Fantastic paragraph worthy of quoting. As sales start to grow, I hope that other studios take notice...

good news for high def!

Pretty good for a terrible movie.



and for an "R" rated movie..

Fantastic paragraph worthy of quoting. As sales start to grow, I hope that other studios take notice...

You mean like Universal?

It works both ways you know...

You mean like Universal?

It works both ways you know...

No it doesn't... One way, HD-DVD dies. The other way, it's more of an even fight. What you fail to realize is that Universal is the only one holding HD-DVD together. If they go neutral, it's all over. A more even match would be for Universal on one side and Sony/MGM on the other side with everyone else in the middle. Then let's see who would win. :D

Universal remains HD DVD exclusive. Sony remains Blu-ray exclusive. All others should go neutral.

No it doesn't... One way, HD-DVD dies. The other way, it's more of an even fight. What you fail to realize is that Universal is the only one holding HD-DVD together. If they go neutral, it's all over. A more even match would be for Universal on one side and Sony/MGM on the other side with everyone else in the middle. Then let's see who would win. :D
way to get off topic, in your own topic :eek:

I though the thread was about the returns of defective pressings :rolleyes:

way to get off topic, in your own topic :eek:

LOL! Couldn't resist... What's funny is prior to that post I was going to write how mature and peaceful the comments have been thus far. No HD or BD bashing. Just pure Hi-def supporters living in harmony. :)

No it doesn't... One way, HD-DVD dies. The other way, it's more of an even fight. What you fail to realize is that Universal is the only one holding HD-DVD together. If they go neutral, it's all over. A more even match would be for Universal on one side and Sony/MGM on the other side with everyone else in the middle. Then let's see who would win. :D

This is business, not badminton. It's perfectly legal and fine for companies to establish alliances and stick with them, as long as they stay within the confines of the law (which there are too many of reglating business, but I digress). He was right. It does work both ways, and Universal stands to gain the most if they go neutral.

I though the thread was about the returns of defective pressings :rolleyes:
You thought wrong. Go here http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11239052#post11239052 for that. :rolleyes:

This is business, not badminton. It's perfectly legal and fine for companies to establish alliances and stick with them, as long as they stay within the confines of the law (which there are too many of reglating business, but I digress). He was right. It does work both ways, and Universal stands to gain the most if they go neutral.

Tell that to the 400K HD-DVD owners out there who are hoping they didn't waste their money because Universal decided to throw in the towel. At least PS3 owners still have a game console if BD loses.

Besides, who's to say that Uni has much to gain. I mean there is a 5:1 ratio of BD to HD and only 250K copies of "300". That's not much of a 'slice of the pie" that Uni is giving up. They can afford to wait until the HD player market grows after the holidays and into the future before they decide "Hey, how do we make more money?"

It's still too early for anyone to make any drastic moves other than those who are exclusive who "really" don't need to be... ;)

DAMN! THERE I GO OFF TOPIC AGAIN!!!! Let's start again:

http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20070806006367&newsLang=en

"Warner Home Video Breaks Another High Definition Record with ``300,'' the Fastest Selling Title with More Than 250K Copies Sold in Its First Full Week "...

Too bad they sold more than 250K and not almost 300K :D

Too bad they sold more than 250K and not almost 300K :D

warner is showing all the other stupid studios (fox,disney and liongate) how to make money from hd movies ... they now own the 2 best selling hd movies available (departed/300) the other best seller "planet earth" is also dual formatted release

The real key messages seems to be

"Overall WHV has six of the top 10 selling high definition titles...Warner also has the highest grossing high definition title with the dual-format release of “Planet Earth.”...As a result of its dual format strategy, WHV has more than 30% market share of DVD sales in the high definition market, selling more high definition product and releasing more titles than any other studio."

AND

"Because of two competing high definition formats in the market, it is widely recognized that hardware prices for both Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD have fallen faster than would normally be expected at this stage in the product cycle. However, research organizations, such as ABI Research(a), predict that further price reductions of hardware are needed to fuel mass adoption of high definition formats."

Clearly the format war is helping player adoption on the low end and disk sales for the studios releasing on both formats. We just need a < $200 player and a few more dual format studios.

warner is showing all the other stupid studios (fox,disney and liongate) how to make money from hd movies ... they now own the 2 best selling hd movies available (departed/300) the other best seller "planet earth" is also dual formatted release
they are, I agree
but IMO Warner has the "better" titles to begin with. Warner titles are films I actually want to own (along with Universal).

I don't get why people can't see the hypocracy in their statements. On one hand, many say that studios are "stupid" for being format exclusive, but are only referring to the Blu exclusive studios like Fox, Disney etc. When anyone mentions that it is just as "stupid" for Universal to be format exclusive, they are wrong and labeled as a fanboy. Now, I totally agree that the studios should take notice of what is happening here, that the best sellers are coming from disks that are in both red and blue boxes. But it also should be recognized that Universal is in business to make money, not necessarily to prop up any given format. They have their eyes on the market just like Fox, Disney, Lionsgate etc "should". In fact with the ratio of sales in favor of BR, one could conclude that Universal has the most to gain from going neutral.

Note that this is not off the subject since the OP suggests that the reason for these better sales is due to the neutrality of Warner.

Also, let it be known that I am exclusively (at the moment) an HD DVD owner, so please don't plaster me with a BR fanboy label. I just call it like I see it.

Interestingly enough, "Batman Begins" is listed as one of the best-selling high-definition titles. This title is currently HD DVD exclusive.

I don't get why people can't see the hypocracy in their statements. On one hand, many say that studios are "stupid" for being format exclusive, but are only referring to the Blu exclusive studios like Fox, Disney etc. When anyone mentions that it is just as "stupid" for Universal to be format exclusive, they are wrong and labeled as a fanboy. Now, I totally agree that the studios should take notice of what is happening here, that the best sellers are coming from disks that are in both red and blue boxes. But it also should be recognized that Universal is in business to make money, not necessarily to prop up any given format. They have their eyes on the market just like Fox, Disney, Lionsgate etc "should". In fact with the ratio of sales in favor of BR, one could conclude that Universal has the most to gain from going neutral.

Note that this is not off the subject since the OP suggests that the reason for these better sales is due to the neutrality of Warner.

Also, let it be known that I am exclusively (at the moment) an HD DVD owner, so please don't plaster me with a BR fanboy label. I just call it like I see it.

Here we go again... Ask yourself this, when was the last time you read a post that said "Why doesn't Sony go Neutral?" You haven't. Why? Because it's preposterous! So why always pick on Universal? Because it's a BR fanboy's "checkmate". All HD-DVD owners have conceded that Sony will never back down. Let BR fans do the same of Universal so we can all go back to our favorite chair/sofa and enjoy some hi-def...

So Blu-Boys can thread crap and troll here, but we can't over there? Interesting.

Fantastic paragraph worthy of quoting. As sales start to grow, I hope that other studios take notice...

Yes. The quote again:


However, research organizations, such as ABI Research(a), predict tAs a result of its dual format strategy, WHV has more than 30% market share of DVD sales in the high definition market, selling more high definition product and releasing more titles than any other studio. Because of two competing high definition formats in the market, it is widely recognized that hardware prices for both Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD have fallen faster than would normally be expected at this stage in the product cycle.

Here we go again... Ask yourself this, when was the last time you read a post that said "Why doesn't Sony go Neutral?" You haven't. Why? Because it's preposterous! So why always pick on Universal? Because it's a BR fanboy's "checkmate". All HD-DVD owners have conceded that Sony will never back down. Let BR fans do the same of Universal so we can all go back to our favorite chair/sofa and enjoy some hi-def...

Just because it is BR's "checkmate" does not mean the reality of it should be ignored. My suggestion it that we not be so blinded by our format preference that we can't see that what is good for a studio on one side of the fence is just as good for one on the other (except Sony -- thanks for pointing that out Capt. Obvious). I would never ask myself such a question, because it IS preposterous. What isn't is asking that question in reference to Universal. They are a studio, that's it. To my knowledge, they own no intellectual propery in HD DVD unlike Sony does with BR, so let's not compare the ole apples to oranges.

Again, I own only HD DVD product and think it is the better choice. However, I refuse to have my logical opinions be construed as fanboyism or bait. I DO enjoy my hi-def because I don't have my head stuck in the sand to where I can't see it.

Here we go again... Ask yourself this, when was the last time you read a post that said "Why doesn't Sony go Neutral?" You haven't. Why? Because it's preposterous! So why always pick on Universal? Because it's a BR fanboy's "checkmate". All HD-DVD owners have conceded that Sony will never back down. Let BR fans do the same of Universal so we can all go back to our favorite chair/sofa and enjoy some hi-def...

this is exactly the reason for me mentioning "disney/liongate/fox" these studios have the ability to switch to neutral to make money ,while sony and universal will not because of allegiances to blu-ray and hd dvd

i know fox/lionsgate and disney have to be seeing the #'s from warner !!!

Just because it is BR's "checkmate" does not mean the reality of it should be ignored. My suggestion it that we not be so blinded by our format preference that we can't see that what is good for a studio on one side of the fence is just as good for one on the other (except Sony -- thanks for pointing that out Capt. Obvious). I would never ask myself such a question, because it IS preposterous. What isn't is asking that question in reference to Universal. They are a studio, that's it. To my knowledge, they own no intellectual propery in HD DVD unlike Sony does with BR, so let's not compare the ole apples to oranges.

Again, I own only HD DVD product and think it is the better choice. However, I refuse to have my logical opinions be construed as fanboyism or bait. I DO enjoy my hi-def because I don't have my head stuck in the sand to where I can't see it.

You're right, they do not own any intellectual property in HD-DVD but aren't they a member of some HD-DVD committee? and as for your opinions, I wasn't trying to construe them as fanboyism or bait but the reality is you did pick a side and you are speaking to a scenario which will lead to the demise of your chosen format.

But as far as your logic is concerned, you are correct. Business-wise, "Universal has the most to gain from going neutral" (so thank you for that one Co-Pilot Apparent) but at what cost? A stock holder doesn't pull out of the market when the stock experiences a dip...

Come on, most people today entering High Def is because they found a 149 add on or a 199-238 player, not because they know Universal only release on HD DVD.

There will always be more people that will buy cheaper things than people that can buy "better" things.

You mean like Universal?

It works both ways you know...

I don't believe I ever indicated that it didn't work both ways.


Ideally, I'd love for *all* studios to be neutral and then let the customers decide based on hardware specs, performance, and price. Unfortunately, we don't live in an ideal world.

When anyone mentions that it is just as "stupid" for Universal to be format exclusive, they are wrong and labeled as a fanboy.

Are you referencing specific posts here, or just presenting a strawman argument?

I don't see why as long as one side has at least one Neutral studio it is wrong to have one on the other side. Why can't Universal be held as the statue of HD-DVD as Sony is to BD. Part of the reason we are here in the first place is GE's hatred of Sony.

While I would like nothing better then all studios being neutral (and therefore be able to buy everything in HD-DVD), it isn't going to happen. The last thing I would want to see is a great format like HD-DVD die because Sony was able to trick a bunch of companies to sign up with them and then strong armed the rest.

I don't believe I ever indicated that it didn't work both ways.


Ideally, I'd love for *all* studios to be neutral and then let the customers decide based on hardware specs, performance, and price. Unfortunately, we don't live in an ideal world.



Are you referencing specific posts here, or just presenting a strawman argument?

I apologize since my response was to the general tone stated in other threads on the subject. I should not have applied the generalization to this thread.

No, you yourself did not indicate that it doesn’t work both ways, but it is widely known that if Universal were to go neutral, that would be it for HD DVD. So, I guess I assumed that since you were encouraging studios to take notice, you would want Universal to remain ignorant. Bad assumption and I shouldn’t be putting words in your mouth.

I for one hope that Universal is “fighting the good fight”, but I can’t separate the fact that they are a business. If they see a competitor like Warner reaping the benefits of neutrality, why wouldn’t they do the same? I guess my hope is if the studios are taking notice and Universal is included in that bunch, that they would be the LAST to go neutral. If they cave before the BR exclusives, that would be too much of a PR nightmare for HD DVD to recover from, even if the likes of Fox and Disney fell just a few weeks later. I agree that if all were neutral (minus Sony), we know what the preferred format would probably be.

Well it looks like Warner is making the most money from information we already know! Why only support one format when there is money to be made on both!

I just can't wait until other studios release on both since a lot of us HD lovers are more than willing to buy some of Fox, Disney and MGM movies! Also a lot more studios!

Well I was just in Best Buy looking at this weeks new releases, and 300 is sold out on HD-DVD. It looks like they had 2 spots for the HD-DVD, as well as 2 spots for blu-ray. The HD-DVD's are gone, the blu-ray spots are both chock full. No idea how many they actually got of each.

Sales breakdown for 300 is as follows:

65% BD
35% HD

This info I received from WHV

Sales breakdown for 300 is as follows:

65% BD
35% HD

This info I received from WHV

That's the same as posted here (http://www.***************.com/fusionbb/showpost.php?post/827379/) by an HD DVD reviewer, so it looks to be correct.

I was really hoping to see a more balanced result.

65/35 is not bad considering player to player its something like 400:40.

I was really hoping to see a more balanced result.

How would it be more balanced? I believe Blu Ray players sold outnumbers HD-DVD players sold by almost 10-1. If anything, it should be alot more lobsided.

No it doesn't... One way, HD-DVD dies. The other way, it's more of an even fight. What you fail to realize is that Universal is the only one holding HD-DVD together. If they go neutral, it's all over. A more even match would be for Universal on one side and Sony/MGM on the other side with everyone else in the middle. Then let's see who would win. :D
Well they won't but says who? We have no numbers but exactly what % of buyers bought HD DVD players because Universal was exclusive? I'd guess less than a handful. Price drives the HD DVD sales, until the BD has an answer they'll sell what they sell now - little in the way of SA players.

If Paramount & Warner went BD only that would make a difference, but Uni isn't the lynchpin the smurfs believe.

How would it be more balanced? I believe Blu Ray players sold outnumbers HD-DVD players sold by almost 10-1. If anything, it should be alot more lobsided.
if those "10" were all connected to an HD display
we know the "1"s are

I don't see why as long as one side has at least one Neutral studio it is wrong to have one on the other side. Why can't Universal be held as the statue of HD-DVD as Sony is to BD. Part of the reason we are here in the first place is GE's hatred of Sony.

While I would like nothing better then all studios being neutral (and therefore be able to buy everything in HD-DVD), it isn't going to happen. The last thing I would want to see is a great format like HD-DVD die because Sony was able to trick a bunch of companies to sign up with them and then strong armed the rest.

This thread went downhill fast...the main reason that Sony would never turn is they are the originator/father of the format and spec. Universal is not the originator/father of HD-DVD they are a partner. Toshiba is the originator/father of HD-DVD. Hence its concievable however unlikely that universal could go neutral. No one in the Blu side thinks Tosh will start making Blu-Ray players anytime soon much like nobody on the red side thinks Sony will release movies or make HD-DVD players anytime soon; that's more of a fair comparison to me.

HDDVD: Blu-Ray
Tosh : Sony
Universal : Disney

Tosh != Disney
Universal != Sony.

Like I said unlikely but not impossible for Universal to switch much like the same speculation is had by HD-DVD fan boys about Disney. Doesn't mean it'll happen but they aren't the fathers of the respective formats so theres a plausiblility to it. Any yes universal going neutral is the check mate...so it gets a bit more attention than disney going neutral...

Well they won't but says who? We have no numbers but exactly what % of buyers bought HD DVD players because Universal was exclusive? I'd guess less than a handful. Price drives the HD DVD sales, until the BD has an answer they'll sell what they sell now - little in the way of SA players.

If Paramount & Warner went BD only that would make a difference, but Uni isn't the lynchpin the smurfs believe.

That answer will come by Xmas...and then what?? Its inevitable that the prices will equalize for stand alones...the longer this goes on the more likely that is to occur and the worse that is for HD-DVD...

This thread went downhill fast...the main reason that Sony would never turn is they are the originator/father of the format and spec. Universal is not the originator/father of HD-DVD they are a partner. Toshiba is the originator/father of HD-DVD. Hence its concievable however unlikely that universal could go neutral. No one in the Blu side thinks Tosh will start making Blu-Ray players anytime soon much like nobody on the red side thinks Sony will release movies or make HD-DVD players anytime soon; that's more of a fair comparison to me.

HDDVD: Blu-Ray
Tosh : Sony
Universal : Disney

Tosh != Disney
Universal != Sony.

Like I said unlikely but not impossible for Universal to switch much like the same speculation is had by HD-DVD fan boys about Disney. Doesn't mean it'll happen but they aren't the fathers of the respective formats so theres a plausiblility to it. Any yes universal going neutral is the check mate...so it gets a bit more attention than disney going neutral...

Its not like I don't agree with you I am just saying just because GE didn't come up with the specs or wasn't the one that devloped and demoed it, Doesn't mean that Universals stance on this issue isn't just like Sony. Maybe they feel that the specs are to intrusive, who knows. Hell GE just may have Sony enough to make them willing to sit on one side for a decade. Just because you think its easier for Universal to go neutral then Sony doesn't mean its true, and because of their importance on this side of the war, I see no harm in believing that Universal might want HD-DVD to win as badly as Sony even if its just so Sony doesn't win.

That answer will come by Xmas...and then what??
Who knows............but it will be interesting.

How would it be more balanced? I believe Blu Ray players sold outnumbers HD-DVD players sold by almost 10-1. If anything, it should be alot more lobsided.
Well I'd say more like 5.27:1 given the last data we have. Pretty much 1.8mil BD players (of which 1.7mil are PS3) against 330,000 (surely higher) HD DVD players.

And yes, it does highlight the fact that the PS3 is not viable for the longterm BD movie market. They need to sell SA players.

I was really hoping to see a more balanced result.

I think that 65/35 is a very good showing for HD DVD, honestly.

When you consider the fact that there are tons of PS3s out there (and this movie fits solidly into that demographic), coupled with the $5 premium on the HD DVD version (because of the combo)... 35% is more than respectable, I think.

Its not like I don't agree with you I am just saying just because GE didn't come up with the specs or wasn't the one that devloped and demoed it, Doesn't mean that Universals stance on this issue isn't just like Sony. Maybe they feel that the specs are to intrusive, who knows. Hell GE just may have Sony enough to make them willing to sit on one side for a decade. Just because you think its easier for Universal to go neutral then Sony doesn't mean its true, and because of their importance on this side of the war, I see no harm in believing that Universal might want HD-DVD to win as badly as Sony even if its just so Sony doesn't win.

I agree - I don't see universal going neutral at all before '08 and even beyond much like I don't see Disney going neutral. Disney may feel the same way about GE or Toshiba as GE feels about Sony (all speculation). I mean GE/Disney are direct competitors in some areas right (Universal/Disney,NBC/ABC, etc.).

Oh and thanks for being constructive as I was attempting to be in my post.

I was expecting more like 70/30 in favor of Blu-ray.

65/35 is very solid for HD DVD and a very good showing for both formats. The price difference between the two should be make the spread even more preferable for HD DVD.

Using the MSRP for the example, and the supposed 65/35 split, the price difference turns the split (revenue wise) to something like 61.9/38.1 in favor of Blu-ray.

Come on, most people today entering High Def is because they found a 149 add on or a 199-238 player, not because they know Universal only release on HD DVD.

There will always be more people that will buy cheaper things than people that can buy "better" things.

I am one of those people. I wanted HD movies.. I already had a 360, a year later I decided to look at the hi-def field and I ended up getting the HD-DVD add-on for $160 cause it was the cheapest possible method for me to watch HD movies. If it wasn't for that add-on.. I'd still have no HD movies :eek: !

By the way, Sony would LOVE to be the 35 (or 31.9) marketshare in terms of their next-gen gaming division, where they're currently holding onto just over 14% marketshare in the US with their PS3. Yikes!

I agree - I don't see universal going neutral at all before '08 and even beyond much like I don't see Disney going neutral. Disney may feel the same way about GE or Toshiba as GE feels about Sony (all speculation). I mean GE/Disney are direct competitors in some areas right (Universal/Disney,NBC/ABC, etc.).

Oh and thanks for being constructive as I was attempting to be in my post.
I Agree its to early and both are getting to big for anything definitive being done on either sides. Disney, Universal, Fox, and Sony all have millions (in Sony's case Billions) to waste on choosing sides. Warner only earned in Profits for 250,000 300 discs 2.5- 5.0 million Dollars assuming a $10-$20 profit on the discs (which was probably lower on the BD but because it while the combo may cost more to make its not $5 more.)


The Companies I do see possibly shifting is Weinstein and LG. Weinstein First because their portfolio is ridiculously small. LG second because as a company that make cheap movies that do poorly at the box office any kind of margin for them seems to be worth it.

I don't understand why Blu-Ray fanboys keep saying Universal goes neutral HD DVD dies..I really don't...

So let's say Univeral goes neutral, how is that going to prevent me from buying more HD DVD movies or making J6P to spend $200-$300 more on a player if they go Blu? I don't see the logic here. It's FUD unlike any other. So Universal goes neutral, the best thing for Blu-Ray owners is that they get to watch Universal titles..that's about it..

I don't really understand why everybody is yelling checkmate..can someone enlighten me here..what will happen if Universal goes neutral that will mark the death of HD DVD?

I am one of those people. I wanted HD movies.. I already had a 360, a year later I decided to look at the hi-def field and I ended up getting the HD-DVD add-on for $160 cause it was the cheapest possible method for me to watch HD movies. If it wasn't for that add-on.. I'd still have no HD movies :eek: !


I was going to wait this whole thing out also. But I managed to get the 360 add on used for $100. I couldn't pass that up. Now I own the A2 which I got for $250. I would have never bought any of that stuff if any of it was as high as Blu-ray prices.

this is exactly the reason for me mentioning "disney/liongate/fox" these studios have the ability to switch to neutral to make money ,while sony and universal will not because of allegiances to blu-ray and hd dvd

i know fox/lionsgate and disney have to be seeing the #'s from warner !!!

The 'numbers' will be close to 70-30 in Blu-rays favour by the end of the year with the knowledge that if either Toshiba or Universal move an inch the whole HD-DVD united front will crash to the ground.

For Blu-ray studios to go dual format at this stage would be admission HD discs will never compete with DVD, even long term.

300 selling 65-35 in favour of Blu-ray, with increased long term sales, will not go unnoticed.

I don't understand why Blu-Ray fanboys keep saying Universal goes neutral HD DVD dies..I really don't...

So let's say Univeral goes neutral, how is that going to prevent me from buying more HD DVD movies or making J6P to spend $200-$300 more on a player if they go Blu? I don't see the logic here. It's FUD unlike any other. So Universal goes neutral, the best thing for Blu-Ray owners is that they get to watch Universal titles..that's about it..

I don't really understand why everybody is yelling checkmate..can someone enlighten me here..what will happen if Universal goes neutral that will mark the death of HD DVD?

Ok. It's not an immediate death but it's an eventual death. Let's speculate as to what will happen:

1. The PR machine will be a nightmare. Geez! If it's out of control now saying there's no hope for Blu-ray, imagine what will happen once Uni goes Neutral. Every single news source, blog, web site will make the announcement loud clear (especially those who are quite adament about like Blu-lover Bill at the Bits).
2. The only advertising left for HD-DVDs will be to sell off their remaining inventory. Then the advertisements will slowly disappear.
2. All retail stores will obviously go exclusive. Now this is where there might be a potential problem. They will begin to liquidate all players and people will snatch them up with many of them not knowing the war is over. Eventuall they will go to stores to find HD-DVDs and will find stock dwindling.
3. All review sites will stop reviewing HD-DVDs so there will be no future references.

Now all this wouldn't matter if there were millions of players out ther but there isn't so there's no need to waste further resources or space. Does anyone disagree? I'm sure there are more scenarios than the 3 I listed above....

They would have sold a crap load more if places like Best Buy actually carried enough of the HD DVD versions.

Ok. It's not an immediate death but it's an eventual death. Let's speculate as to what will happen:

1. The PR machine will be a nightmare. Geez! If it's out of control now saying there's no hope for Blu-ray, imagine what will happen once Uni goes Neutral. Every single news source, blog, web site will make the announcement loud clear (especially those who are quite adament about like Blu-lover Bill at the Bits).


I don't disagree Sony's PR will yell even harder Blu-Ray wins, but what's new there. HD DVD is selling like crazy now even with PR FUD that's been going around.


2. The only advertising left for HD-DVDs will be to sell off their remaining inventory. Then the advertisements will slowly disappear.


Why? How do you see this happening. How can you say that a format is dead when you can still buy 1. cheap players 2. all titles you want except 2 studios that haven't released a few titles to begin with and won't release new titles until end of this year. I don't understand your reasoning. I mean Universal going neutral does not equal Universal stops releasing HD DVD titles. It seems that all Blu-Ray fanboys are actually equating neutral with complete stop in support.

The ONLY thing Universal exclusivity has influence on is giving a reason NOT to go Blu-Ray. If Universal goes neutral, HD DVD really doesn't lose anything. Blu-Ray crowd gains, but HD DVD doesn't lose anything. In facts ANY studio that goes neutral in this case is GOOD for HD DVD in general as it only means more titles on HD DVD, the price of players, no regional coding, combo disks, high interactivity are things that guarantee HD DVD's superiority over Blu-Ray.


2. All retail stores will obviously go exclusive. Now this is where there might be a potential problem. They will begin to liquidate all players and people will snatch them up with many of them not knowing the war is over. Eventuall they will go to stores to find HD-DVDs and will find stock dwindling.


Again WHY? What is the basis for your "stores will obviously go exclusive"? If HD DVD continues to sell as much as they are selling now. How will one more studio going neutral affect that? It might INCREASE Blu-ray catalog, but to say that as soon as Universal goes neutral (if it ever does) everyone will just STOP and start dumping HD DVD is competely ignorant.


3. All review sites will stop reviewing HD-DVDs so there will be no future references.


Wow, I really don't know what to say to your responses as they are not only competely illogical but highly influenced by all this Sony PR BS. I'm sorry I've even wasted my time replying to above. Jesus.

Universal remains HD DVD exclusive. Sony remains Blu-ray exclusive. All others should go neutral.

Well I might say yeah - because my reaction to this article is this is great for HD regardless if br sold more or not.

But I think all studios should go nuetral and then let the best format win. seems reasonable.

No it doesn't... One way, HD-DVD dies. The other way, it's more of an even fight. What you fail to realize is that Universal is the only one holding HD-DVD together. If they go neutral, it's all over. A more even match would be for Universal on one side and Sony/MGM on the other side with everyone else in the middle. Then let's see who would win. :D


As long as the war continues, we win with falling hardware prices and cost of entry! Now all we need is the software to start dropping in price! Universal needs to stay nuetral for one reason, to keep the war going!

Since 65:35 ratio of sold 300 copies has been confirmed, which is NOT bad at all considering 10:1 ratio of PS3 players vs HD DVD players, I just had to point out that A LOT of retailers did a huge injustice to HD DVD by not being prepared for the demand of HD DVD version of the movie.

The numbers would be MUCH higher for HD DVD, but majority of retailers were delivered smaller amount of HD DVD copies and left out of stock. Just to put things in perspective, there hasn't been a store in my neighborhood in 10 mile radius that had an HD DVD copy of 300 in stock anymore while they had plenty of Blu-Ray.

Just watch what happens when Universal releases a title that's in demand..just watch how many copies gets sold when retailers have enough in stock. Bourne Identity and Hot Fuzz sold in AMAZING numbers wiping the floor with Blu-Ray highest sold numbers.

You can't blame Warner though, they had a $4 more expensive version of 300 on HD DVD and probably cost them a bit more and didn't want to take a risk of going full blast like with Blu-Ray, but now they've learned..expect other Warner releases to be printed in the same amount as Blu-Ray copies and blasting sales numbers.

I actually see 65:35 number very encouraging..we could even say that 300 was a great test for Warner. They now know they can print much bigger number of copies for HD DVD and that they will sell.

Quote:
2. The only advertising left for HD-DVDs will be to sell off their remaining inventory. Then the advertisements will slowly disappear.

Why? How do you see this happening. How can you say that a format is dead when you can still buy 1. cheap players 2. all titles you want except 2 studios that haven't released a few titles to begin with and won't release new titles until end of this year.

And you forget 3: Why would a dead format announce Gen 3 players?? Why go through all the design and hype if you're gonna give up on the format? Exactly. HD-DVD is here to STAY!

300 selling 65-35 in favour of Blu-ray, with increased long term sales, will not go unnoticed.
I'm sure that a lot of Blu-ray owners are going to be pissed once they realize that they are going to be expected to buy the movie again to get a version that is equal to the HD DVD. Once the Blu-ray specs are final and the players more mature, Warner can sell the movie again to the Blu-ray fanatics. Most people buying the Blu-ray version now don't even realize that it is inferior to the HD DVD, since the ads for The 300 don't distinguish what's available on either format. Again, there is no way in hell that I would buy a Blu-ray player today. Perhaps when the 3rd or 4th generation players with full specs are available, and the prices are far cheaper. Then I can thank the suckers that supported Blu-ray by paying top dollar for inferior machines.

Actually a sales ratio of 65:35 will indeed be significant since it does prove that HD DVD is a viable format that requires a far smaller installed base to be successful. Remember we are talking about a movie that is tailor made for the PS3 crowd and at 35% of 250K, we are talking about the HD DVD version outselling almost any other BD title - including the 2 PoTC titles combined in their first week or even Casino Royale (which I believe sold 60K or so)!

So, this is indeed significant since studios care about $, not ratios.

What we are also seeing is that HD DVD buyers are wiling to spend extra $ for extra features - For instance, I recall PoTC despite being 2 disks and super duper BD features was still sold at the same price as a regular disk - no premium at all!

Yes. the sales of 300 IF they are 65:35 would be an important validation for HD DVD. However, anything worse than 80:20 would be detrimental to HD DVD. It would show that BD hardware sales particularly since the PS3 price cut is having an impact....

We'll see. :)

Exactly Plazman..not only that..here I'll show some simple math here..

Sold units ratio means very little when the bottom line is MONEY, not how many units they sold..

So if we compare how much MONEY Warner made on Blu-Ray and how much on HD DVD version..we get a bit different story

For the ratio of 65:35 for number of sold units Warners gross income from titles looks like this:

- 300 on HD DVD combo sold 87,500 units @ $35, some places like Target now the combo is going for $39.99

- 300 on Blu-Ray sold 162,500 units @ 24.95. The price is pretty equal everywhere.

Now pay attention at the power of HD DVD:

- Blu-Ray 300 grossed them $4,060,875
- HD DVD 300 grossed them $3,045,000

Keep in mind that HD DVD version at $35 was sold at some places for $39.99 but let's keep it clean at $35. Sure somewhere you could get it for $28 but the middle grounds would be $35. Not only that but I'm pretty certain that printing HD DVD versions cost them less so their profit margin has increased too.

When you do a little math out of $7,105,875 that they made on both titles if they sold 250k units. Warner's actual gross income in percentage is

57:43 in favor of Blu-Ray. Now this is truly impressive. Being in SHORT supply of HD DVD titles, and despite the fact that there's 10:1 Blu-Ray players out there, HD DVD actually almost manages to make almost 50% of hi-def sale for Warner, pointing out that number of SOLD units is not the only way to look at things.

To put things in perspective, let's assume that in the upcoming months, Warner increases shipped number of units for HD DVD to retail chains and sells the same number of titles..I will use 300 for reference again.

250k units as a sample... 50:50 number of sold copies the gross income for Warner looks like this:

125k units HD DVD sold @ $35 = 4,375,000
125k units BLu-Ray sold @ $25 = 3,125,000

That's 58:42 ratio in gross income in favor of HD DVD.

So, if a studio sells the SAME amount of HD DVD combo titles as Blu-Ray ones (which is not THAT far fetched) they actually make close to 60:40 ration money wise in favor of HD DVD.

This is where the power of HD DVD is..and don't forget again, we are talking about 10:1 in number of PLAYERs on the market. That's what I call consumer POWER.


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Calculations after some price normalization

HD DVD = $27 ==> 85,000 x 27 = 2,295,000
BD = $23 ==> 170,000 x 23 = 3,910,000

Even if the production costs are 75% of the RSP ->Warner would have reaped a profit of $1.5m which is pretty good.

Calculations after some price normalization

HD DVD = $27 ==> 85,000 x 27 = 2,295,000
BD = $23 ==> 170,000 x 23 = 3,910,000

Even if the production costs are 75% of the RSP ->Warner would have reaped a profit of $1.5m which is pretty good.

What is PRICE normalizaton for you? Average cost for 300 HD DVD is $34.95 and not $27 as you say it..and Blu-Ray is $24.95. And you seem to have problems with math

65% out of 250,000 is not 170,000. It's 162,500. Just typical Blu-Ray fudster undermining. You seem to cut down on numbers where it suits you.

Deals you get online or where ever is not called NORMALIZATION..

My numbers are more valid then yours. Stop "normalizing"..HD DVD KILLED Blu-Ray in profit ratio and it sold 65:35 titles.. that's what I call A FORMAT that brings value to a studio and all this with 10:1 ratio in players.

And we don't have the actual number of PRINTED copies for HD DVD in those 250k 300 units. We are ASSUMING that it was 50:50, but what if it was 60:40. This would prove that HD DVD absolutely killed Blu-Ray when you factor in everything.


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nfinity -> Why are you getting so aggravated ? Mine was just based upon online rates. Did I mention anything about profit ratio between BD:HD DVD ? Cool down buddy.

Heading home to watch 300, Blood Diamond and Bourne 1 & 2 which just arrived from dvdpacific.

Just curious, how are you getting the "average cost"?

MSRP of hd dvd version is $40, blu-ray $35
Amazon hd dvd is $28, blu-ray is $24
Bestbuy.com hd dvd $35, blu-ray $30
Circuitcity.com hd dvd $40, blu-ray $35

There seems to be a $4 - $5 spread between both the full price and discounted prices, not the $10 spread that you used. Not that it really matters, as it's pretty obvious comparing % of sales using gross revenue will obviously come out better for hd-dvd than by comparing unit sales given the $5 higher price tag.

Again, undoubtably the hd-dvd version will gross more if sales units were exactly equal, as the sales price is ~ $5 higher. We dont know what the margins are for either BD or HD, the costs of authoring each format, etc, so it's impossible to tell what the actual profitability is on each version.

BTW, loved your post to lgans316. IMO his "price normalization" is more correct than your $35 hd dvd $25 blu-ray model. Way to use a higher number for hd dvd & a discounted figure for blu-ray.

You seem to cut down on numbers where it suits you.

:rolleyes:

nfinity -> Why are you getting so aggravated ? Mine was just based upon online rates. Did I mention anything about profit ratio between BD:HD DVD ? Cool down buddy.

Heading home to watch 300, Blood Diamond and Bourne 1 & 2 which just arrived from dvdpacific.

Not really, but if I appear that way it's because I just hate when in general, Blu-Ray supporters point out numbers when it fits their bill. They overstate prices in one argument, then understate in another then go and quote 15:1 number of titles, then start naming studio support numbers when actually the ones they are quoting are not actually releasing movies etc etc... and when I put objective numbers and they start quoting their BD fud recitals it stings me as someone else who might read this will get completely skewed picture and end up spending bunch of money on completely inferior format.

That's why I get ticked off..sorry if I lashed out at YOU personally..

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Just curious, how are you getting the "average cost"?

MSRP of hd dvd version is $40, blu-ray $35
Amazon hd dvd is $28, blu-ray is $24
Bestbuy.com hd dvd $35, blu-ray $30
Circuitcity.com hd dvd $40, blu-ray $35

There seems to be a $4 - $5 spread between both the full price and discounted prices, not the $10 spread that you used. Not that it really matters, as it's pretty obvious comparing % of sales using gross revenue will obviously come out better for hd-dvd than by comparing unit sales given the $5 higher price tag.

Again, undoubtably the hd-dvd version will gross more if sales units were exactly equal, as the sales price is ~ $5 higher. We dont know what the margins are for either BD or HD, the costs of authoring each format, etc, so it's impossible to tell what the actual profitability is on each version.

BTW, loved your post to lgans316. IMO his "price normalization" is more correct than your $35 hd dvd $25 blu-ray model. Way to use a higher number for hd dvd & a discounted figure for blu-ray.

:rolleyes:

First of all prices AT LAUNCH SALE..were not $40 a piece they were $34.95 at retail and $28 or so online. Majority people if they weren't looking paid theirs online for around $30, taking a median at $35 as I assume more people bought them in retail stores too as I did. I paid mine $30 but at most places it was $34.95 with retail price of $39.99.

Even at your prices the median for HD DVD is $35.75.

For Blu-Ray it was $24.95 at most places while at some places it was $27.95 with retail price of $29.95. I've yet to see a place online or in retail that is $35.

Average I took is what I saw these past couple of days both online and in retail and I did calculations simple way, sum of all divided by number of compared places. And it did come out around $25 in the first week.

Unfortunately for HD DVD owners the price for 300 HD DVD is indeed $39.99 at many places now. HD DVD is now up at $39.99 at Target for example. People are still buying too.


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First of all prices AT LAUNCH SALE..were not $40 a piece they were $34.95 at retail and $28 or so online. Majority people if they weren't looking paid theirs online for around $30, taking a median at $35 as I assume more people bought them in retail stores too as I did. I paid mine $30 but at most places it was $34.95 with retail price of $39.99.

Even at your prices the median for HD DVD is $35.75.

For Blu-Ray it was $24.95 at most places while at some places it was $27.95 with retail price of $29.95. I've yet to see a place online or in retail that is $35.

Average I took is what I saw these past couple of days both online and in retail and I did calculations simple way, sum of all divided by number of compared places. And it did come out around $25 in the first week.

Unfortunately for HD DVD owners the price for 300 HD DVD is indeed $39.99 at many places now. HD DVD is now up at $39.99 at Target for example. People are still buying too.



Thank you for at least clarifying how you got your #s (even though I dont agree with them). Surprising that you found there was a $10 difference between the two versions, even though the common consensus even around here is the combo cost ~ $5 more.

Thank you for at least clarifying how you got your #s (even though I dont agree with them). Surprising that you found there was a $10 difference between the two versions, even though the common consensus even around here is the combo cost ~ $5 more.

True, but not for hot titles like 300 for example. If I wanted to wait, I could've gotten 300 on HD DVD just below $30 right? That's what most people got htem for here..and it was like deal here and deal there and all online right?

What I've experienced so far and what I paid at most places, NEW hd dvd combo titles are $34.95 everywhere I go while Blu-Ray vary depending on how hot the title is I guess (between $27.99 and $24.99). I mean, maybe I"m wrong but I still believe that A LOT of people are buying movies in retail and not online. It's just more convenient as you get to browse stuff, don't have to wait for shipping etc etc. Especially with hot movies, you want them right away in your player.

I just took my numbers from what I've experienced, nothing else and I ratio wise I would say it's not that way off. I mean it might be 2-3 bucks on Blu-Ray side.. but the admirable HD DVD sales power in money still stands.

And don't forget, we are actually assuming they printed the SAME amount of copies for both Blu-Ray and HD DVD, which we can both agree is highly unlikely. Warner definitely printed less combos as with higher price they had more risk.

This is why we saw a major lack of HD DVD versions in retail for example. Blu-Ray was appropriately stocked-up, but HD DVD was missing which again affected sales.

I am pretty sure that with 300, Warner actually saw the true power of HD DVD and that they will increase the number of copies to match Blu-Ray ones in the upcoming hit titles.


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I would say that Amazon has probably sold 20-30.000 copies total of 300 in presales and first week sales. Add in other online stores and maybe 50.000 or so was sold online. The absolute majority was sold at b&m stores and therefor in most cases payed closer to mspr.

Also if it's sold out in a few places you look you are more likely to accept full mspr when you finally find it.

This is however totally irrelevant when it comes to Warners cut. The get the same amount if it's sold full mspr or heavily discounted.

I'm a bit out of touch with the wholesale pricing but they probably get a bit over $15 for the Blu Ray and a bit under $20 for the HD DVD. Let's say $16 and $19.

True, but not for hot titles like 300 for example. If I wanted to wait, I could've gotten 300 on HD DVD just below $30 right? That's what most people got htem for here..and it was like deal here and deal there and all online right?

What I've experienced so far and what I paid at most places, NEW hd dvd combo titles are $34.95 everywhere I go while Blu-Ray vary depending on how hot the title is I guess (between $27.99 and $24.99). I mean, maybe I"m wrong but I still believe that A LOT of people are buying movies in retail and not online. It's just more convenient as you get to browse stuff, don't have to wait for shipping etc etc. Especially with hot movies, you want them right away in your player.



This isn't because its a combo well at least because of the Studios. Best Buy and a few others sell D&D HD-DVD/Combo movies at MSRP. This is something they don't do with any other media including D&D BD discs. The fact is almost all the studios set roughly the same MSRP for new releases, cept warner charges less for the BD because they feal that you are getting less (because its not a combo). Trust me with the pre-order on Amazon being $35 for Spidey 3, I think their is a great chance BB and the rest will be selling it for $40+.

good for warner, 1st 100k, now 250k. Anyone knows how many copies the dvd sold? Hopefully transformers come out day and date, i'm guessing that film might be able to break 300's new record

Now pay attention at the power of HD DVD:

- Blu-Ray 300 grossed them $4,060,875
- HD DVD 300 grossed them $3,045,000

First of all, your "normalization" is nothing but an opinion. The standard accepted method of comparing prices is MSRP.

Second, using your "normalization" the numbers you mentioned above are what the retailers earned, not Warner. In fact you have absolutely no idea what Warner sold the 300 BD and hdvdd to distributors for, so your guess is as good as mine when it comes to "the power of hd dvd"

I'm betting that 300 sold 2:1 (br:hd dvd).
There is no reason to assume or guess otherwise imo.

Where the ratio of 65:35 confirmed? The link provided on page 2 is from another forum, and it was from an "insider."

That's what I'm wondering. We got equal copies of the BD and HD at my store (50 each) and The BD didn't completely sell out until day two. The HD was sold out by 8pm on release day.

Of course, the limited edition DVD with the helmet sold out after 25 minutes.

Where the ratio of 65:35 confirmed? The link provided on page 2 is from another forum, and it was from an "insider."
There is no confirmation. It's Warner's internal data, something we're not likely to ever see............................but..............the 65:35 splits pretty well reflects the current split = it's reasonable.

I wonder how much of the "understocking" of the HD DVD version affected sales, or is it even mentionable? Or even the price difference? Combo format or single disc?

I don't understand why Blu-Ray fanboys keep saying Universal goes neutral HD DVD dies..I really don't...

So let's say Univeral goes neutral, how is that going to prevent me from buying more HD DVD movies or making J6P to spend $200-$300 more on a player if they go Blu? I don't see the logic here. It's FUD unlike any other. So Universal goes neutral, the best thing for Blu-Ray owners is that they get to watch Universal titles..that's about it..

I don't really understand why everybody is yelling checkmate..can someone enlighten me here..what will happen if Universal goes neutral that will mark the death of HD DVD?

If every major studio was releasing on BD and its still only UNI/WB/Par for HD DVD ,why would any new consumer purchase the format that didn't offer all content.

For all these posts about how much money WB is making off 300 for each format, unless the WHOLESALE cost of each disc is known it is just wild speculation. Studios don't make money based on what BB, Amazon,CC etc.... sells a disc for. They get paid at a wholesale level. Now someone who works for a distributor might know that price and be willing to share, then you could make some educated guess at profits.

Actually a sales ratio of 65:35 will indeed be significant since it does prove that HD DVD is a viable format that requires a far smaller installed base to be successful. Remember we are talking about a movie that is tailor made for the PS3 crowd and at 35% of 250K, we are talking about the HD DVD version outselling almost any other BD title - including the 2 PoTC titles combined in their first week or even Casino Royale (which I believe sold 60K or so)!

According to a post on the BD forum 65:35 was exactly the ratio (via USA Today), though Blu Ray fans believe it to be a huge victory.

http://blogs.usatoday.com/technologylive/2007/08/blu-ray-continu.html#more

So far, the Blu-ray Disc version of 300 is outselling the HD DVD version, 65% to 35%. According to Home Media Research, that mirrors the overall sales pattern this year (Jan-June), with Blu-ray accounting for 67% and 33% for HD DVD,.

According to a post on the BD forum 65:35 was exactly the ratio (via USA Today), though Blu Ray fans believe it to be a huge victory.

http://blogs.usatoday.com/technologylive/2007/08/blu-ray-continu.html#more

So far, the Blu-ray Disc version of 300 is outselling the HD DVD version, 65% to 35%. According to Home Media Research, that mirrors the overall sales pattern this year (Jan-June), with Blu-ray accounting for 67% and 33% for HD DVD,.

Actually, all this tranlated into dollars (something studios are interested in more of) the ratio is actually 60/40 in dollars as there is a $5 delta between BR and HD DVD Cmbo pricing.

I think each side can claim a victory here if they want. Perspective is everything. Half full/empty mentality. Spin it up.

My take, market reflection. The sales reflected what was true about the market. It means that the numbers out there are not false. It also means they havent changed much. So, claiming victory in the face of an unchanged market share is nothing to get a chubby over. BR isnt pulling away, HD DVD isnt dead and we all spent some cabbage on some 300 woopass. The HD gods are happy, and I am too.

Actually, all this tranlated into dollars (something studios are interested in more of) the ratio is actually 60/40 in dollars as there is a $5 delta between BR and HD DVD Cmbo pricing.

I think each side can claim a victory here if they want. Perspective is everything. Half full/empty mentality. Spin it up.

My take, market reflection. The sales reflected what was true about the market. It means that the numbers out there are not false. It also means they havent changed much. So, claiming victory in the face of an unchanged market share is nothing to get a chubby over. BR isnt pulling away, HD DVD isnt dead and we all spent some cabbage on some 300 woopass. The HD gods are happy, and I am too.

Bautifully said :)


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There is no confirmation. It's Warner's internal data, something we're not likely to ever see............................but..............the 65:35 splits pretty well reflects the current split = it's reasonable.
And the other one quotes "According to Home Media Research", who are they?
The name is familiar but I cant recall where they get their data. (Nielsen's?)
The internal data will be the best source, but notice we never get number leaks if they don't favor Blu. which make me suspicious any way.

the Nielsen's numbers this week will be interesting, Bourne was as surprise last week.

I do think the 300 out of stock will be a factor, as will wal-mart (and others) sales not showing on Nielsen.

300 hd sold out where ever it was sold, this proves stores need to stock more HD movies especial in day and date releases.
The online stores like Empire are showing closer sales than before, things are just starting to get interesting. The next Dual format day and date release will be very active. I wonder what the 300 HD sales will look like in the next few weeks, I bet it will be on the increase.

PS I take blog entires like USA todays with a pinch of salt , not say they they're wrong, just remembering the previous FUD that flowed from them ( Universal to quit HD, Wrong Toshiba specs). So far most of the news stories I find say Warner Brothers didn't release Blu-ray-versus-HD DVD sales numbers...

One interesting news story (http://tech.yahoo.com/blogs/patterson/3503/hd-disc-sales-for-300-break-records) pointed out;
Make no mistake—"300"'s sales figures pale compared to the millions and millions that the top standard DVD titles sell each week. Still, consider this: back in April, when the first Blu-ray and HD DVD sales figures were released, the Blu-ray version of "Casino Royale" topped the charts (for the week of March 18), selling a grand total of…28,233 copies. In fact, the top 10 titles for that week sold about 40,000 copies, combined. Considering that "300" managed to sell a total of 250,000 copies in a single week—all by itself—it looks like overall HD disc sales are growing dramatically.

I don't understand all you people who twist around your arguments when you see fit.

In the thread I created about Spiderman being huge for BR this summer, TONS of you came in there and said it doesn't matter how much people think it will sell, the fact that it has a very high MSRP will keep down the sales. (MOST places will obviously sell it below MSRP, but we'll stay away from that for the most part here.)

But, according to the arguments being made here, Spiderman will still be a GIGANTIC success for Blu-Ray, since the disc is being sold at a higher price, therefore it will make Sony tons of money either way. So what is more important? The # of discs sold, or the price that they're sold at so everyone can crunch numbers on the exact amount of money made?

And about that cost of the disc, how many of you in here are the same people complaining about the prices of combo discs, saying that they're not worth it? I know if I saw the same exact movie at the store for 5 bucks (or more) cheaper on one format, that's the one I'd certainly pick. But when it's being put up against a Blu-Ray disc, it's ok for it to cost more so it looks like HD-DVD made Warner more money per disc? It seems like there are contradictions at every corner.

I mean which one is it? Are combo discs good and fine? Do people TRULY not have a problem with them being priced what they are? Or is the price of a combo disc only convenient when comparisons are made like the ones in this thread? I mean geez I'm an HD-DVD supporter solely but it seems like so many of you go out of your way to try and spin things to sound good for HD-DVD to the point of contradicting other statements in the process.

You can try to spin it all you want, but the advantage in sales of 65/35 for Blu-Ray is not good. All that # essentially means is that most everyone who has an HD-DVD player bought 300, where as a lot of PS3 users who aren't interested in Hi-Def movies yet skipped it and bought the original DVD.

It's kind of sad to me that the format which is being catered toward the hardcore movie fan by providing CHOICE, is going to eventually lose out to the format that's being forced on people when they buy the 600 dollar system. I mean seriously think about how many people went to the video store as well and said "Well, I own a PS3, so I guess I'll give 300 a try on Blu-Ray." Where as the HD-DVD users sought this all out from the beginning and KNOW what they want in these discs. But that's just the way it's going to end up being, so I wish everyone would prepare for it rather than continuously spin control every single thing that's released like this.

If 65/35 doesn't become 55/45 or BETTER by this time next year, HD-DVD won't see another holiday season. Retailers and others will pull the plug because they will feel they've given this "war" long enough to wage, and then they'll make the decision for us. HD-DVD needs to start taking customers away, not just treading water. But hey that's just my prediction. Feel free to tell me I'm wrong. I hope I'm not but I'm just thinking realistically here.

You can try to spin it all you want, but the advantage in sales of 65/35 for Blu-Ray is not good. All that # essentially means is that most everyone who has an HD-DVD player bought 300, where as a lot of PS3 users who aren't interested in Hi-Def movies yet skipped it and bought the original DVD.

I really don't follow your logic. I have a hard time believing folks who forked over a small fortune for a PS3 would ever prefer a standard DVD...how in the world do you figure that to be the case? (Or more over, how do you explain how many units it sold then -- BD standalone users? That makes no sense at all).

Another dent in your argument is that you aren't looking at the numbers -- 300 sold 80,000 units on HD-DVD in one week.

That's more than CASINO ROYALE sold in its first week on Blu Ray.

That's more than both PIRATES movies sold in their first week combined on Blu Ray.

Does it look like HD-DVD is a format NOT worth supporting then?? :cool:

Where as the HD-DVD users sought this all out from the beginning and KNOW what they want in these discs. But that's just the way it's going to end up being, so I wish everyone would prepare for it rather than continuously spin control every single thing that's released like this.

Again, this is more of the either/or format argument. I keep thinking about a Video Business article that discussed how BOTH formats would still be around in 2010. To me it looks like that's going to happen.

Why do you think the people who support HD-DVD would pull the plug on it? It is developing a user base that's already big enough to support a title like 300 and have it sell more copies in its first week than CASINO ROYALE, which previously was Blu Ray's big seller.

If 65/35 doesn't become 55/45 or BETTER by this time next year, HD-DVD won't see another holiday season. Retailers and others will pull the plug because they will feel they've given this "war" long enough to wage, and then they'll make the decision for us. HD-DVD needs to start taking customers away, not just treading water. But hey that's just my prediction. Feel free to tell me I'm wrong. I hope I'm not but I'm just thinking realistically here.

I fully expect the ratio to start improving by Q1-2 next year, based on sales of low-priced G3 players.

But... having said that, I'm not sure the percentages need to change all that much. This title sold 250,000 copies. That's MORE than any other title, so by definition HD DVD is not "treading water". It's not selling a higher percentage than it was 6 months ago, but it's selling more titles than it did 6 months ago. That's positive growth... it just happens to be growth that mirrors the BD growth.

If 35% of 2 million titles annually is sustainable... 35% of 20 million titles is also. As long as we don't start seeing major slippage as the market grows, I'm not sure the format even needs to kick BD's ass in the long run. (Although, again, I fully expect that it will start to show some improvements going forward.)


I personally think that you'll start seeing the percentages tighten up in about 6 months or so, when people scoop up the lower-priced hardware around the holidays. Cheap players, Heroes/Star Trek, and overall title selection will grow the format in Q4. (Obviously with Spidey 3 and other hits, BD will see growth as well... but I suspect that the hardware cost will slow down adoption comparitively.)

But, according to the arguments being made here, Spiderman will still be a GIGANTIC success for Blu-Ray, since the disc is being sold at a higher price, therefore it will make Sony tons of money either way. So what is more important? The # of discs sold, or the price that they're sold at so everyone can crunch numbers on the exact amount of money made?

And about that cost of the disc, how many of you in here are the same people complaining about the prices of combo discs, saying that they're not worth it? I know if I saw the same exact movie at the store for 5 bucks (or more) cheaper on one format, that's the one I'd certainly pick. But when it's being put up against a Blu-Ray disc, it's ok for it to cost more so it looks like HD-DVD made Warner more money per disc? It seems like there are contradictions at every corner.

I mean which one is it? Are combo discs good and fine? Do people TRULY not have a problem with them being priced what they are? Or is the price of a combo disc only convenient when comparisons are made like the ones in this thread? I mean geez I'm an HD-DVD supporter solely but it seems like so many of you go out of your way to try and spin things to sound good for HD-DVD to the point of contradicting other statements in the process.



The combo price is an issue to some and I completely agree with the criticism of the price. 65/35% split is a lot of nothing because the number sold are small. It is like those charts that boast a 1000% increases in sales. That could be 2 items sold.
Actual numbers sold are necessary to make a determination. Keep in mind 250,000 compared to what should be millions sold for DVD, tells us both formats are growing and that they are still small fish in a smaller pond. Kicking VHS out of the water is a accomplishment, if it was 2004.

If the Star Trek TOS Combo only format does well it will mark a start of a up swing for HD DVD and the Combo idea. Future big releases could be Combo only. (though IMO the price would have to be comparable to DVDs sale price)

HD DVD does very well when comparing what the early adopters (us) are willing to pay for software. Including a lot of sets and bundled sales.

Comparing HD and Blu high prices is a double edged sword, if you cut with it in one direction and say for example HD brought close to some money as blu with fewer titles sold, then the back swing cuts for the Blu ideal of more expensive disks.

I also think the exclusivity of movies is going to go nowhere any time soon. DVD is still a great format. IF Blu or HD doesn't have a movie, then the DVD version will do as well. At this point in their adoptions only die hard enthusiast are put off by not being able to buy Bourne 3 on blu or Spiderman 3 on HD.

I wonder how much of the "understocking" of the HD DVD version affected sales, or is it even mentionable? Or even the price difference? Combo format or single disc?

I def think it affected sales. I was at two different BBs on tues and wed and both were already sold out of the HD DVD version of 300 but had ample stock of the BD version.

Was there again yesterday just looking around and the HD DVD is still not in stock. You can't expect to equal or beat BD in sales if you don't stock the movies. Its just that simple. You cant expect everyone to preorder from amazon or to go buy from amazon as soon as they realize that their local BB or CC is sold out already.

People that don't like to shop online will either wait or if they are dual format owners will pick up whats available.

If every major studio was releasing on BD and its still only UNI/WB/Par for HD DVD ,why would any new consumer purchase the format that didn't offer all content.
No format offers "all the content".

No format offers "all the content".


DVD comes the closest so perhaps we should all stick with that!

Cheers,

Grant

If every major studio was releasing on BD and its still only UNI/WB/Par for HD DVD ,why would any new consumer purchase the format that didn't offer all content.

Don't even bother. I tried explaining this before. Some people just don't understand that Uni is the glue that's holding HD-DVD together. Any war has to have 2 sides and each side has their secret weapons. Once once side concedes and shares their technology can it really be called a war anymore?

However, if Uni concedes 2 or 3 years from now, then there isn't much of a decisive winner for both sides has quite a bit of market penetration with their product. If they were to concede now with only 400k players out there, it would be a huge victory for BD.

Bottomline, Uni isn't going anywhere anytime soon. Q1 2008 would have to be something like 90/10 BD/HD for them to even consider it and the way things are going, it will be nothing like it.

Maybe Universal feels like without the publicity that a format war brings, Blu-ray would win but just happily co-exist side by side with SD DVD and never obtain anything more than niche status like Laserdisc. Maybe they feel that if there are two formats around for a long time, each constantly garnering more and more press attention as time goes along, the hi-def disc market will gain enough attention to finally thrive and take DVDs place down the line.

I don't understand all you people who twist around your arguments when you see fit.



And about that cost of the disc, how many of you in here are the same people complaining about the prices of combo discs, saying that they're not worth it? I know if I saw the same exact movie at the store for 5 bucks (or more) cheaper on one format, that's the one I'd certainly pick. But when it's being put up against a Blu-Ray disc, it's ok for it to cost more so it looks like HD-DVD made Warner more money per disc? It seems like there are contradictions at every corner.


BUT, YOU paid almost twice as much for your player. So, naturally you would pick the Movie that was $5 cheaper, but not the player $250 cheaper!! HUH!!!

I don't understand all YOU people who twist around arguments when YOU see fit!!

Are YOU the POT or the KETTLE??


And 1 more thing:
If all you BLU-Ray people are SO sure you've already won, why do you bother people who like HD DVD? If our chosen format is "ALREADY DEAD" why don't you just sit back and and enjoy your Blu-Ray stuff while keeping your opinions in the Blu-Ray posts!

Just got done watching TMNT in the HT and now my kids are watching it in there room on a REGULAR dvd player. COMBO DISCS ARE GREAT!

Carry-ON!

BUT, YOU paid almost twice as much for your player. So, naturally you would pick the Movie that was $5 cheaper, but not the player $250 cheaper!! HUH!!!

I don't understand all YOU people who twist around arguments when YOU see fit!!

Are YOU the POT or the KETTLE??


And 1 more thing:
If all you BLU-Ray people are SO sure you've already won, why do you bother people who like HD DVD? If our chosen format is "ALREADY DEAD" why don't you just sit back and and enjoy your Blu-Ray stuff while keeping your opinions in the Blu-Ray posts!

Just got done watching TMNT in the HT and now my kids are watching it in there room on a REGULAR dvd player. COMBO DISCS ARE GREAT!

Carry-ON!

amen brotha.

I def think it affected sales. I was at two different BBs on tues and wed and both were already sold out of the HD DVD version of 300 but had ample stock of the BD version.

Was there again yesterday just looking around and the HD DVD is still not in stock. You can't expect to equal or beat BD in sales if you don't stock the movies. Its just that simple. You cant expect everyone to preorder from amazon or to go buy from amazon as soon as they realize that their local BB or CC is sold out already.

People that don't like to shop online will either wait or if they are dual format owners will pick up whats available.

The shipments of both formats are equal. Best Buy isn't understocking 300 on HD DVD.

The shipments of both formats are equal. Best Buy isn't understocking 300 on HD DVD.

By the sounds of it they are.

In this thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=885979&page=1&pp=30

Multiple people mention how their BB stocked in favor of BD. Doesn't sound equal to me.

I don't disagree Sony's PR will yell even harder Blu-Ray wins, but what's new there. HD DVD is selling like crazy now even with PR FUD that's been going around.



Why? How do you see this happening. How can you say that a format is dead when you can still buy 1. cheap players 2. all titles you want except 2 studios that haven't released a few titles to begin with and won't release new titles until end of this year. I don't understand your reasoning. I mean Universal going neutral does not equal Universal stops releasing HD DVD titles. It seems that all Blu-Ray fanboys are actually equating neutral with complete stop in support.

The ONLY thing Universal exclusivity has influence on is giving a reason NOT to go Blu-Ray. If Universal goes neutral, HD DVD really doesn't lose anything. Blu-Ray crowd gains, but HD DVD doesn't lose anything. In facts ANY studio that goes neutral in this case is GOOD for HD DVD in general as it only means more titles on HD DVD, the price of players, no regional coding, combo disks, high interactivity are things that guarantee HD DVD's superiority over Blu-Ray.



Again WHY? What is the basis for your "stores will obviously go exclusive"? If HD DVD continues to sell as much as they are selling now. How will one more studio going neutral affect that? It might INCREASE Blu-ray catalog, but to say that as soon as Universal goes neutral (if it ever does) everyone will just STOP and start dumping HD DVD is competely ignorant.



Wow, I really don't know what to say to your responses as they are not only competely illogical but highly influenced by all this Sony PR BS. I'm sorry I've even wasted my time replying to above. Jesus.

Then why don't you give your opinions to Universal's president Craig Kornblau. Maybe he might have better reasons as to why their submission in the war would lead to an eventual demise of a great formt:

"With Universal the only holdout in sticking with HD DVD exclusively, Kornblau reluctantly concedes that HD DVD's position is just fragile enough that if Universal decided to release in Blu-ray now, it would have a serious, if not life-threatening impact on the future of HD DVD. So in addition to weighing how his decision will impact the studio, he now must also factor in the potential demise of the HD DVD format entirely if Universal would opt to release its movies in Blu-ray."

Now if I'm reading this correctly, I, Capt Obvious, seem to share the same opinion with the president of the very same corporation we're speaking about. He must be Admiral Obvious. :rolleyes:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=888026

BUT, YOU paid almost twice as much for your player. So, naturally you would pick the Movie that was $5 cheaper, but not the player $250 cheaper!! HUH!!!

I don't understand all YOU people who twist around arguments when YOU see fit!!

Are YOU the POT or the KETTLE??


And 1 more thing:
If all you BLU-Ray people are SO sure you've already won, why do you bother people who like HD DVD? If our chosen format is "ALREADY DEAD" why don't you just sit back and and enjoy your Blu-Ray stuff while keeping your opinions in the Blu-Ray posts!

Just got done watching TMNT in the HT and now my kids are watching it in there room on a REGULAR dvd player. COMBO DISCS ARE GREAT!

Carry-ON!

I love the Internet, really. Where assumption is king and facts basically mean nothing.

Guess what pal? I don't own a PS3, or a Blu-Ray player. I have the HD-D2 player from Costco and about 20 HD-DVD's. That's it.

So how about you "Carry-ON!" ?

I love the Internet, really. Where assumption is king and facts basically mean nothing.

Guess what pal? I don't own a PS3, or a Blu-Ray player. I have the HD-D2 player from Costco and about 20 HD-DVD's. That's it.

So how about you "Carry-ON!" ?


Sorry, I was reading your GLOOM and DOOM post and also was reading between the lines. Seek help my friend.



Carry-On!

Then why don't you give your opinions to Universal's president Craig Kornblau. Maybe he might have better reasons as to why their submission in the war would lead to an eventual demise of a great formt:

"With Universal the only holdout in sticking with HD DVD exclusively, Kornblau reluctantly concedes that HD DVD's position is just fragile enough that if Universal decided to release in Blu-ray now, it would have a serious, if not life-threatening impact on the future of HD DVD. So in addition to weighing how his decision will impact the studio, he now must also factor in the potential demise of the HD DVD format entirely if Universal would opt to release its movies in Blu-ray."

Now if I'm reading this correctly, I, Capt Obvious, seem to share the same opinion with the president of the very same corporation we're speaking about. He must be Admiral Obvious. :rolleyes:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=888026


And this is exactly why this all PR propaganda is so disguisting. The QUOTE you posted is not a quote by president of Universal, it's an editorial by Scott Hettrick...

, Kornblau reluctantly concedes that HD DVD's position is just fragile enough that if Universal decided to release in Blu-ray now


This is being "interpreted" as a fact by the BDA paid puppet in this editorial not Universal's president. He would've quoted his words if he really said something literal like that..but we all know that everyone and everything Blu-Ray is psychic..and that taking things out of context while conveniently omitting other facts that would actually reveal the full meaning behind reported facts is Blu-Ray Associations and Sony's expertise.

Stop posting FUD and trying to pass it as fact, as you are just making yourself looks as jackass and uneducated individual who doesn't understand what "interpretation" means.

Why does everyone keep saying that Universal is the only BD hold-out? As it currently stands, so is the Weinsten Company. Good news for those who'd like to own GRINDHOUSE or the "Whole Bloody KILL BILL" on HD-DVD.

Stop posting FUD and trying to pass it as fact, as you are just making yourself looks as jackass and uneducated individual who doesn't understand what "interpretation" means.

I suggest de-caf from now on ... but I know what you mean.

I def think it affected sales. I was at two different BBs on tues and wed and both were already sold out of the HD DVD version of 300 but had ample stock of the BD version.

Was there again yesterday just looking around and the HD DVD is still not in stock. You can't expect to equal or beat BD in sales if you don't stock the movies. Its just that simple. You cant expect everyone to preorder from amazon or to go buy from amazon as soon as they realize that their local BB or CC is sold out already.

People that don't like to shop online will either wait or if they are dual format owners will pick up whats available.

I found that same thing you did, my Best Buy was sold out of the HD DVD version but about 10 BDs left; Target was sold out of HD DVDs, but had about 6 BDs left; I got the last HD DVD from Wal-Mart and they didn't even stock the BD version.

BUT, YOU paid almost twice as much for your player. So, naturally you would pick the Movie that was $5 cheaper, but not the player $250 cheaper!! HUH!!!

I don't understand all YOU people who twist around arguments when YOU see fit!!

Are YOU the POT or the KETTLE??


And 1 more thing:
If all you BLU-Ray people are SO sure you've already won, why do you bother people who like HD DVD? If our chosen format is "ALREADY DEAD" why don't you just sit back and and enjoy your Blu-Ray stuff while keeping your opinions in the Blu-Ray posts!

Just got done watching TMNT in the HT and now my kids are watching it in there room on a REGULAR dvd player. COMBO DISCS ARE GREAT!

Carry-ON!

BING BING BING. Give that man a cigar or perhaps several.

The price argument from BD fans always makes me laugh; When you pay $500 for a BD player instead of $200 for an HD DVD Player they all say, "You get what you pay for", but $5 extra for a combo will break the bank. :rolleyes:

You are also spot-on when you point out all of the trolling BD fans do on the HD DVD boards. If HD DVD is dead why troll on these boards all the time? If HD DVD is dead why do BD supporters put negative reviews for HD DVDs on Amazon? It's because HD DVD isn't dead and since they have no use for their PS3 they load up LINUX and surf the net looking for HD DVD fans to hate.

300 selling well is a victory for both formats. For BD it is further confirmation that if you make mindless films on BD they will sell well. For HD DVD it shows that the installed base is too large to ignore and it confirms that the HD DVD base is still growing.

Just wait. The Bourne Ultimatum is going to come out and sell well on HD DVD; in fact based on how well 300 did on HD DVD it isn't unrealistic to think that BU will sell as well on HD DVD as CR did on BD. IF 300 could sell over 80,000 HD DVDs in one week to an installed base of around 400,000 then BU should be able to sell that many to an even larger base.

I love the Internet, really. Where assumption is king and facts basically mean nothing.

Guess what pal? I don't own a PS3, or a Blu-Ray player. I have the HD-D2 player from Costco and about 20 HD-DVD's. That's it.

So how about you "Carry-ON!" ?
mva5580
Member

Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 159


To be honest, I can't believe I'm supporting EITHER of these formats at this point, let alone actually owning both and buying both. But I am. I just think it's a damn shame that these 2 companies couldn't realize they would be doing so much better together than competing with each other. Ridiculous.

Did you forget about this post of yours?

I too, love the internet, where people can just make stuff up as they go along. You know, like you do.

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