I am interested in getting the best option for me.

I have a fully light controlled room and want something with the best possible color reproduction as well as best contrast.

I would imagine that a plasma would be best in this regard...but are they?

How does plasma stack up against SXRD rear projection units like Sony or JVC has?

Also, is LED worth looking at? I am yet to go out and audition one...mainly because I'm interested in the best possible pic in a light controlled environment, and viewing in the store rarely is worthwhile.

My father has a 42' panasonic plasma which is nice...not great, but nice. If we use that as a benchmark, how does it compare to

a) SXRD rear projection Sony/JVC
b) LED rear projection
c) other plasmas
d) crt units front and rear projection

One of the main drawbacks I find with plasma is inaccurate reds...also looking for comments in that regard.

I didn't know which forum to post this thread in, and it became obvious that the people who I wanted to hear from reside right here!

Ben

If you have a light controlled room, why are you not considering front-projectors? This seems like a very strange choice. FP would seem like a natural fit, unless you are interested in lower quality and smaller images.

Next, what is your budget?
Next, how hobby-oriented are you? Do you want something simple, or is something more complex ok (mainly aimed at whether CRT FP is feasible).

Chris,

I've owned about 20 crt fp's...and they're just not quite right. Sure they have the best pic, but they're loud...which is just something I can't accept anymore. I want silence. THey're also very big, and generally right over your head, which also bothers me quite a bit.

If I could get an ultra long throw crt, I might give it one last try...

The only digital projector that I'm interested in is the Samsung 710, but as luck would have it, it's full of it's own quality issues!

Ben

Joe Kane's Samsung 710 and 800 do imaging science. If you want a reference image on a tight budget they're great. My experience with these projectors has not been as problematic as forum posts would lead you to believe. I just hooked one up in my demo theater this weekend and was reminded again how absolutely stunning the 710 can look right out of the box. These two projectors still are my favorite recommendations under $20,000.00, and yes they are very quiet. I'm eagerly anticipating Joe's 1080p demo at CEDIA EXPO.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

The only digital projector that I'm interested in is the Samsung 710Could you explore this a little? I can think of at least three other very high quality 1080p digital FPs that will get you very good contrast and accurate color for under 10K.

- Sharp XV-Z20000
- Marantz VP15S1 (available next month)
- BenQ W10000

At 720p there's the Yamaha DPX13000

I should have also prefaced that I'm a bit of a cheapskate...performance vs dollars makes me interested in the Samsung...as well as crt fp.

Could you explore this a little? I can think of at least three other very high quality 1080p digital FPs that will get you very good contrast and accurate color for under 10K.

- Sharp XV-Z20000
- Marantz VP15S1 (available next month)
- BenQ W10000

At 720p there's the Yamaha DPX13000

May I also add:

Cineversum Black Wing Two @ 1080p, with true blacks and true whites (no IRIS ;))
Sony VPL-VW100 @ 1080p (not 24p unfortunately but still great - amazing color due to Xenon) but maybe not under 10K this one.
& of-course the younger brother of the CBWT above the JVC DLA-HD1 (with latest firmware only) @ 1080p (I think it's known as S1 in US but not sure)

regards,

kopa13

How does under a grand sound for the Samsung?

amazing color due to XenonIt may be "amazing", but it is not remotely accurate. The SXRDs are notorious for their extremely oversaturated primaries. It wouldn't have thought it possible, but the JVC is even worse in this regard. I intentionally left both off the list because the poster specified accurate color as one of his performance targets.

Some folks mistake the ability of a display to track a D65 gray scale as meaning it has accurate color. This would only apply for black and white programs. The gray scale occupies a small portion of the color gamut available from a video display.

If the color primaries are not aligned to display industry standards, it's never going to look quite right as one moves outward from the D point. Even if 2 out of the 3 primaries are accurate, no other point in color space will be correct. All three primaries must be correct in both the 601 and 709 color spaces for a display to be considered having accurate color. Precious few consumer displays of any type have been able to achieve this.

The color may appear pleasing to many consumers but will not be the same as that used by the program producers. Many consumers justify the compromise by saying they are not purists or perfectionists. That's very convenient, since precision usually comes with greater cost. However, many folks on this forum simply want to see a program the way it was intended to be seen.

Image fidelity should not be only for a rare and priviledged few. Unfortunately, manufacturers consistently compromise fidelity for impressive sounding specs in ad copy, or a display's ability to compete with compromised viewing environment conditions.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

It may be "amazing", but it is not remotely accurate. The SXRDs are notorious for their extremely oversaturated primaries. It wouldn't have thought it possible, but the JVC is even worse in this regard. I intentionally left both off the list because the poster specified accurate color as one of his performance targets.

Some fair comments regarding color. I do understand that you can calibrate the grey scaling (as it will be off by default form the manufacturers etc) but if there are primary color deficiencies, there is not much you can do.
I've also noticed you only listed DLP (DMD panels) technology kit. Anything good regarding color on D-iLA kit?

It 'd be very good education (for me) to list a few models that have accurate primary colors, from the 4 technology camps (although LCD imo, is nowhere near yet compared to the other technolgies for FPJs) and their average price etc (unless there is a thread already in which case sorry for the repeat).

Regards,

kostas

Some fair comments regarding color. I do understand that you can calibrate the grey scaling (as it will be off by default form the manufacturers etc) but if there are primary color deficiencies, there is not much you can do.
I've also noticed you only listed DLP (DMD panels) technology kit. Anything good regarding color on D-iLA kit?

It 'd be very good education (for me) to list a few models that have accurate primary colors, from the 4 technology camps (although LCD imo, is nowhere near yet compared to the other technolgies for FPJs) and their average price etc (unless there is a thread already in which case sorry for the repeat).There is no technical reason for this, but the current crop of LCoS offerings all have very oversaturated primaries and no way to adjust them. Apparently, JVC will unveil something at CEDIA next month that will address this problem with the RS1. Unless and until that occurs, the only quality FPs that I know of with accurate color are DLPs.

The Epson TW1000 LCD offers good color after calibration, but it suffers from a rather high native black level and some white field uniformity issues.

Among the DLPs at a lower price point, the Sharp XV-Z3100 (2-3K) and the Optoma HD7300 (2-3k) are both capable of excellent color, post-calibration.

Some displays offer wider than standard color gamuts with digital color management facilities to "steer" the primaries and secondaries toward their correct locations in color space. The only ones I know of for sure are DLP projection devices.

Not all color management systems are created equal. Last CEDIA EXPO I attended a couple of classes taught by Joe Kane on this subject. The classes were sponsored by Lion AV/Datacolor. Joe brought his Samsung model 710 DLP and time was also spent with a competitor's projector with it's own version of color management. Joe walked the class through the alignment of the Samsung he designed. A Photo Research PR650 was used to take the readings as he coached the class through the calibration of the model 710. The process took about 15 to 20 minutes and resulted in near perfect primary and secondary color points. Joe designed his projectors to be set up mathematically and automatically after entering the color analyser's readings of the color primaries and white from the screen. Once the readings are entered into the service menu the projector does the rest. Like the infamous Bass-O-Matic, it's just that simple.

After this, we all attempted to align the competitor's projector. With Joe Kane and a room full of top imaging science practitioners offering suggestions along the way, we devoted about 2 1/2 hours on the calibration. We never could get all the color points to line up right. There was a marketing representative from the manufacturer present. He became increasingly uncomfortable as the session progressed.

The lesson to this is, it's OK if a display's color primaries are over-saturated, as long as the means is provided to precisely align the color coordinates according to standards. If the manufacturer or a reviewer is not able to document this level of features and performance, you could assume such capability is absent. Just claiming color management features does not guarantee the device will get you to accurate color. Just saying a device has accurate color doesn't mean anything today. If documentation is not provided, we should assume it isn't so.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"