Watched the Bourne series yesterday.

All the HD WOWs I had with Bourne Identity came down to a sudden halt after watching Bourne Supremacy. PQ was a big let down as it was soft and blurry at many scenes. There wasn't much of HD pop except for very few scenes. This is a sure double-dip title for me. Any comments and advice ?

I thought it looked awesome. Remember, the directors had very different film styles. Make sure you're not confusing "style" with "soft." I personally think they were both fantastic (just watched Supremacy last night, so I think I can speak on this one).

Supremacy is phenomenal. I really have no idea what you're talking about.

I just ordered both on Amazon. I won't get them for another 7-10 days probably though. I did see Bourne Identity in HD though and it looked pretty good.

Supremacy is phenomenal. I really have no idea what you're talking about.

I agree. Absolutely top flight quality - as good as it gets.

Supremacy looks really good, like most of Universal's early releases. Did it sound good through your tv speakers? :)

Supremacy is phenomenal. I really have no idea what you're talking about.
My thoughts exactly.

Watched the Bourne series yesterday.

All the HD WOWs I had with Bourne Identity came down to a sudden halt after watching Bourne Supremacy. PQ was a big let down as it was soft and blurry at many scenes. There wasn't much of HD pop except for very few scenes. This is a sure double-dip title for me. Any comments and advice ?

Looked fine to me, not sure what you mean.

I actually thought Supremacy was more impressive than Identity.

I thought they both looked fantastic. Reference quality.

I'm not sure what movie you were watching!

What the hell are you talking about? You seriously need to get your eyes checked. Supremacy is clearly superior to Identity in terms of PQ. In fact, I think Supremacy is one of the best looking HD DVDs out there.

Supremacy is phenomenal. I really have no idea what you're talking about.Agreed. Not only does it look amazing, it has an incredible soundtrack...:)

My favorite series in recent history. I can't wait for Ultimatum on HD DVD...:D

This thread had me scared for a minute. Then I read all the posts that disputed the OP's statement. I might pick up Supremacy tomorrow. I waited on Supremacy because I hadn't seen the Bourne Identity until 2 nights ago.

Huh??!! I don't have Identity yet, but Supremacy is absolutely Tier 0-1. Perfect and crystal clear.

Watched the Bourne series yesterday.

All the HD WOWs I had with Bourne Identity came down to a sudden halt after watching Bourne Supremacy. PQ was a big let down as it was soft and blurry at many scenes. There wasn't much of HD pop except for very few scenes. This is a sure double-dip title for me. Any comments and advice ?
Bourne Supremacy's PQ was at worse a tier 2. You need to check your connections. :confused:

The funny thing is that a friend of mine had never seen either Bourne movie so a few months ago, we watched Identity. As soon as it was over, he turned to me and said "oh my god...how long is the 2nd one?"

So we immediately put it in and I cannot TELL you what a massive difference there was between the first one in SD and the 2nd in HD. "Night and day" doesn't seem to accurately state it.

I would seriously check your connections.

I really liked the PQ for Supremacy. It is definitely NOT SD quality, that's for sure.

Folks, I think the OP (original poster) is saying that he watched the HD version of Identity and then the SD version of Supremacy. Notice his comment about possibly double-dipping? As in, might have to buy the HD version of Supremacy because he's so blown away by the HD version of Identity.

Mark

Thanks for your comments.
Overall I am not happy with Supremacy because of the following reasons

1. Unintentional Grains
2. Intentional crushing of blacks in dark scenes.
3. Soft picture.
4. Excessive green hues.

It's good that some of you loved the PQ though I didn't. However Bourne Identity was terrific. May be I am a bit more demanding.

Supremacy is phenomenal. I really have no idea what you're talking about.
+1

Thanks for your comments.
Overall I am not happy with Supremacy because of the following reasons

1. Unintentional Grains
2. Intentional crushing of blacks in dark scenes.
3. Soft picture.
4. Excessive green hues.

It's good that some of you loved the PQ though I didn't. However Bourne Identity was terrific. May be I am a bit more demanding.


I don't know what unintentional grain means, and the picture is definitely not soft on my side.

Folks, I think the OP (original poster) is saying that he watched the HD version of Identity and then the SD version of Supremacy. Notice his comment about possibly double-dipping? As in, might have to buy the HD version of Supremacy because he's so blown away by the HD version of Identity.

Mark


I can't believe how many are missing this point :)

I read it like he watched BI in HD, then saw BS in SD and was so let down by the SD quality compared to the HD that he was going to double dip for th HD version of BS... phew, :p

Watched the Bourne series yesterday.

All the HD WOWs I had with Bourne Identity came down to a sudden halt after watching Bourne Supremacy. PQ was a big let down as it was soft and blurry at many scenes. There wasn't much of HD pop except for very few scenes. This is a sure double-dip title for me. Any comments and advice ?

Bourne Identity: HD DVD correct?

Bourne Supremacy? HD DVD correct?

You liked Identity in HD but not Supremacy in HD?

Sean_O -> Appreciate your sense of humor.

I liked the Bourne Identity in HD but not Bourne Supremacy in HD

Sean_O -> Appreciate your sense of humor.

I liked the Bourne Identity in HD but not Bourne Supremacy in HD

I guess the joke is on me then :p

The previous "Get your eyes checked, man!" posts will have to stand. ;)

BTW, how does a "double dip" fit into that context?

Like Morpheus I believe that Universal will re-master BS.

I actually thought Supremacy was more impressive than Identity.


I agree, the colors pop more and there's no grain to speak of.

I actually thought Supremacy was more impressive than Identity.
+1

I saw both back to back and thought BS had worse PQ than BI also. I agree with lgans316 with some of his comments:

2. Intentional crushing of blacks in dark scenes.
4. Excessive green hues.

(FYI Im connecting gen1 player via HDMI directly to Samsung 5085 50" DLP for picture.)

I saw both back to back and thought BS had worse PQ than BI also. I agree with lgans316 with some of his comments:



(FYI Im connecting gen1 player via HDMI directly to Samsung 5085 50" DLP for picture.)

Unfortunately, that's the way the director wanted the movie to look. It's a great transfer, but I don't really care for the look of the film either or the crazy camera shaking. Still a really good movie though.

It's good that some of you loved the PQ though I didn't. However Bourne Identity was terrific. May be I am a bit more demanding.

Yep, that is probably it. You are way, way waaaaay more demanding than anyone else on this board.

I'm just getting into this series for the first time, never saw 'em in the theater...watched Identity last weekend and was blown away, fanf#kingtastic movie and amazing PQ/AQ -- so of course I was already looking forward to Supremacy this weekend, now all these positive posts have me REALLY lookin' forward to it! And yeah, Ultimatum is gonna rule this holiday season, it has a good shot at being the best available NEW movie in HiDef!

Peace

No one is denying that both are good movies. Otherwise why would we purchase them in HD DVD ? Personally I was disappointed with the PQ of BS coz many scenes looked similar to SD. So wanted to seek your opinion. Have requested DU gurus to perform DU tests and post their verdict.

No one is denying that both are good movies. Otherwise why would we purchase them in HD DVD ? Personally I was disappointed with the PQ of BS coz many scenes looked similar to SD. So wanted to seek your opinion. Have requested DU gurus to perform DU tests and post their verdict.

Have you directly compared it to the SD version?

Otherwise, I don't get the comparison.

I have the SD version of BS and after comparison I don't see any remarkable difference except for better colors and tad more background detailing.

Doug Liman and Paul Greengrass should have adopted similar visual styles coz one movie has almost zero green hues and the other has excessive green hues.

Supremacy looks great. This is madness.

I have the SD version of BS and after comparison I don't see any remarkable difference except for better colors and tad more background detailing.

Doug Liman and Paul Greengrass should have adopted similar visual styles coz one movie has almost zero green hues and the other has excessive green hues.

I don't think one director should have to adopt anothers exact same visual style if he takes over a series. He's allowed to do whatever he damn well pleases.

In this case, it was not a "night and day" difference to what Identity did. Let's face it, what matters MUCH more is the movie itself and Paul did a great job of continuing the stories and characters.

I don't think one director should have to adopt anothers exact same visual style if he takes over a series. He's allowed to do whatever he damn well pleases.

In this case, it was not a "night and day" difference to what Identity did. Let's face it, what matters MUCH more is the movie itself and Paul did a great job of continuing the stories and characters.

This person speaks the truth.

I personally didn't love the "look" of Supremacy but happily bought it because I'm a fan of the series. To me it did look a bit soft and the colours weren't quite right especially in the indoor scenes. Outdoor scenes looked good. So I guess I'm saying i didn't like the inconsistency of it

Supremacy looks great. This is madness.

Madness?? THIS IS AVSFORUM!!!!!



...


Somebody had to say it. You knew it was coming.



Anyhow, I don't see anything wrong with either movie, but then I'm limited to 720p resolution at the moment...

You come to our forum with your talk of SD!!!!

You insult our HD disks??

Choose your next words carefully heathen.......

I have supremacy and like the look a lot. I have a little black crush but I would attribute that more to my set than the HD DVD itself.

Where are the SS?

I own both Bourne HD DVD and they both look great!

just finished watching supremacy, after watching Identity two nights ago.

Supremacy looks at least as good as Identity, if not better (although I was ready to smack the director for the arty "shaky" camera shots :( )

Watched Identity last night and watching Supremecy now. Supremecy has better contrast and more saturated color, but Identity looked and sounded great! I'm just happy to have both, bring on Ultimatum!

Judging with a 106" screen with 720P DLP projector.

I was totally happy with both titles...no complaints here!

Now that I own both titles on HDDVD, I can honestly say both titles are soft. If I do a comparison to a movie like Hot Fuzz, they are very soft. But again, this is the directors intention, and I don't knock it because it isn't super clear.

Thanks for your comments.
Overall I am not happy with Supremacy because of the following reasons

1. Unintentional Grains
2. Intentional crushing of blacks in dark scenes.
3. Soft picture.
4. Excessive green hues.

It's good that some of you loved the PQ though I didn't. However Bourne Identity was terrific. May be I am a bit more demanding.

I agree... just watched Supremacy last night (my first HD-DVD... but I have seen plenty of Blu Ray titles) and I too was let down on the quality. A few scenes looked great but most of the movie looked like great quality SD at best. Loaded up Matrix Reloaded afterwards and realized I did not have any setup issues... Reloaded looked awesome!

I am watching the Bourne Supremacy right now, I think it looks great. But the again grain doesn't bother me if the movie seems enhanced by it, like 300.

Thanks for your comments. I am pretty sure that Universal will re-master BS.

If you check the chapter / scene selection icons in both BI and BS you can find the picture inside the thumbnails to be sharp with boosted contrast but when you actually play that scene you will find the details to be missing. This proves that the contrast, black levels and sharpness has been intentionally minimized for no reasons.

Please do the below

1. Reduce the contrast and brightness of your visual equipment.
2. Go to Menu->Scene selections.
3. Scan through the chapter icons. Note down the details.
4. Jump to the chapter and check if the picture detail levels are the same.

This thread makes my head hurt.

Both Bourne movies look great on HD DVD.

I think the op was on drugs when he saw BS. It looks great, i dunno what kind of drugs you're taking, maybe you should lay off them for a while.

Xylon, Gooki, Kram and FrancescoP - > Can you please try the steps mentioned in http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11277568&&#post11277568 and revert back with your findings ?

Xylon, Gooki, Kram and FrancescoP - > Can you please try the steps mentioned in http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11277568&&#post11277568 and revert back with your findings ?

That's a really bizarre and totally inaccurate way to judge the quality of anything.

That's a really bizarre and totally inaccurate way to judge the quality of anything.

Thank You! I read through that thread and after seeing the BD boys bash the HD boys about how THEY were doing it and then watching the HD boys bash the BD boys about how THEY were doing it just made my head hurt. As far as I could tell it was "hey look we can ass with this frame in photoshop and prove anything we want"

I honestly was very disappointed with Supremacy, but Identity blew me away. They look significantly different, but please don't attack me. It's just my opinion. It has been awhile since I viewed Supremacy. i am going to watch it again this weekend.

I was about to purchase these movies then I saw this thread. I was concerned about Supremacy at first but it seems by a wide margin that people loved it, so it goes back on my list of movies to get.

Supremacy is so dark it's probably hard to make out how good it looks!

I just watched Bourne Identity last night on HD-DVD, WOW what a great movie and the audio and video were the best I have seen and heard on HD-DVD, even better then Batman Begins in my opinion.

Supremacy looks great. This is madness.
This s Yason Bourne Identity.

I just saw supremacy on HD yesterday. Picture was sharp and could make out alot of little details, however this was one of the worst when it came to crushing blacks killing all dark details.

Blacks were severely crushed especially in the indoor scenes.

Blacks were severely crushed especially in the indoor scenes.

Intentionally.

i personally didn't think identity looked that great. haven't seen the 2nd one yet

I didn't notice too much indoors but definitly night shots had some heads floating up in the air.

Thanks for your comments.
Overall I am not happy with Supremacy because of the following reasons

1. Unintentional Grains
2. Intentional crushing of blacks in dark scenes.
3. Soft picture.
4. Excessive green hues.

It's good that some of you loved the PQ though I didn't. However Bourne Identity was terrific. May be I am a bit more demanding.

I thought Identity looked better than Supremacy too. I just got done watching the HD version of Supremacy. I wasn't overly impressed. I thought there were a lot of dark scenes and the blacks just blended all together. This would be black crush I suppose? I am not too familiar with these terms. Some scenes looked really good, but others looked questionable. Especially the darker green scenes. A lot of these scenes were Bourne thinking of the past though so they had to make it look like that. I thought Supremacy also had an overall darker look to it than Identity. However, I would assume this was the directors intent. I thought that my settings that I calibrated on my TV got reset somehow because of the blacks and the overall picture, but I checked and they were how I had them.

Did anyone notice the ending scene where Pam is looking out the window? That was the worst shot in the whole movie. What a total blur. That may have been the window though. I guess we can't be too picky though. After all, it is better than the standard version, slightly better.

I think the HD pop would be 100% there in Asian movies (Indian, Chinese etc) which are mostly shot outdoors without any color filtering / unusual filming techniques. Some of the SD DVD of Asian movies I have look better than some of the HD DVDs / Blu-rays though it sux in the sound department. However many Asian production companies are notorious in maintaining film stock.

The problem in Bourne series is the picture consistency. Identity didn't intentionally apply green hues, film grains and crushed blacks which is applied heavily in the sequels. Also most of the scenes shot by Paul Greengrass are done using hand held cameras and it has terribly affected the viewing experience. I heard that some of the female audience puked in the cinema hall while watching supremacy because of excessive usage of hand held cameras.

Also most of the scenes shot by Paul Greengrass are done using hand held cameras and it has terribly affected the viewing experience. I heard that some of the female audience puked in the cinema hall while watching supremacy because of excessive usage of hand held cameras.

Just watched Bourne Ultimatum, in this movie has a lot of action done by hand held camera more than other 2 Bourne's movies, actions so fast and angle shot changing every second made many people dizzy. But some love it, some didn't.
I couldn't wait to see it again in HD.

I have to agree with the OP that the PQ on HD was dissapointing,I thought the SD version looked better.

Do your own comparison:

http://www.hdmovies.co.nz/hddvd.php?id=The%20Bourne%20Identity
http://www.hdmovies.co.nz/hddvd.php?id=The%20Bourne%20Supremacy

Both are HD, both have a specific style, both are significantly better than the DVD counterparts!

Supremacy is phenomenal. I really have no idea what you're talking about.

The OP is a member of the blu brigade and he is trying to mischaracterize the quality of HD DVD in what seems to be a plausible way.

I actually thought Supremacy was more impressive than Identity.

AGREED. Both look very good, but Supremacy has a grittier feel that I think is superior.

I think the HD pop would be 100% there in Asian movies (Indian, Chinese etc) which are mostly shot outdoors without any color filtering / unusual filming techniques. Some of the SD DVD of Asian movies I have look better than some of the HD DVDs / Blu-rays though it sux in the sound department. However many Asian production companies are notorious in maintaining film stock.

The problem in Bourne series is the picture consistency. Identity didn't intentionally apply green hues, film grains and crushed blacks which is applied heavily in the sequels. Also most of the scenes shot by Paul Greengrass are done using hand held cameras and it has terribly affected the viewing experience. I heard that some of the female audience puked in the cinema hall while watching supremacy because of excessive usage of hand held cameras.

I am really confused by your attitude to mastering. I suspect you have a rather too narrow aesthetic comprehension to lend any real significance to your comments in this regard.

Bemoaning grain as being unintentional when you obviously have no idea if this is the case. Describing blacks as crushed when again you have no idea what the original cinematography had in mind. I'd love to read your take on Se7en.

To me Universal's HD movies bear a conservative look. Universal no showing of lossless audio tracks for blockbuster titles is a real shame on them. On top of these things the director's cruel cinematographic intention is killing the HD fans who are always expecting exponential WOW factors with HDM.

To me Universal's HD movies bear a conservative look. Universal no showing audio tracks for blockbuster titles is a real shame on them. On top of these things the director's cruel cinematographic intention is killing the HD fans who are always expecting exponential WOW factors with HDM.

You want Universal to change the look of a film to please you irrespective of how it was intented by the director. Your arguement sounds like those that wanted pan and scan and other variables just so the picture would fit their TV screens. No thanks, but I'm curious as to why you're advocating that nonsense here in the HD DVD section when you belong to the blu brigade? And why aren't you advocating BR studios do the same in the blu-ray forums?

[QUOTE=lgans316;11837175]To me Universal's HD movies bear a conservative look. QUOTE]

So after criticising a transfer for supposedly having crushed blacks and grain possibly missing the point it has a slightly unconventional look. Your now criticising Universal for being "conservative".

Yeah right won't be wasting any more time reading this nonsense.

No thanks, but I'm curious as to why you're advocating that nonsense here in the HD DVD section when you belong to the blu brigade? And why aren't you advocating BR studios do the same in the blu-ray forums?

Mr D does this stuff for a living and has worked on some of the big Hollywood blockbusters, he is also 100% behind HD DVD and hates Blu Ray with a passion.

Mr D does this stuff for a living and has worked on some of the big Hollywood blockbusters, he is also 100% behind HD DVD and hates Blu Ray with a passion.

LGans316 is deep in the blu camp and takes pot shots at HD DVD at every opportunity. That needed to be pointed out.

To me Universal's HD movies bear a conservative look. Universal no showing audio tracks for blockbuster titles is a real shame on them. On top of these things the director's cruel cinematographic intention is killing the HD fans who are always expecting exponential WOW factors with HDM.

Huh? :confused:

LGans316 is deep in the blu camp and takes pot shots at HD DVD at every opportunity. That needed to be pointed out.

Sorry I got confused, I thought you were having a go at Mr D when it was LGans316, my bad.

I have the UK Supremacy release and an imported US Identity release. Like them both - though the directing styles of Doug Lyman and Paul Greengrass are different, and the films thus had different looks in the cinema, and thus have different looks on disc. I'm personally happy with both discs - they reflect the different natures of the two films. Paul Greengrass has a more documentary like feel - and thus the graininess of some scenes reflects and re-inforces this. Of the two Identity feels more objective, and distanced, whereas Supremacy feels both more immersive and immediate

That said - the HD release of Identity really exposes the relatively crude compositing used in some of the car chase scenes, and particularly the very end scenes of the movie where characters (I won't post spoilers) are giving evidence to a committee (where the compositing is painfully apparent)

To me Universal's HD movies bear a conservative look. Universal no showing audio tracks for blockbuster titles is a real shame on them. On top of these things the director's cruel cinematographic intention is killing the HD fans who are always expecting exponential WOW factors with HDM.

I'm sorry but to this I say "F**K HD fans." Buy the movie because you want it in HD; not because of the "wow" factor. Give me what I saw on screen when it was in theaters. I'm not looking to impress anyone else with them.

Maybe Blu-boys should learn that.

To me Universal's HD movies bear a conservative look. Universal no showing audio tracks for blockbuster titles is a real shame on them. On top of these things the director's cruel cinematographic intention is killing the HD fans who are always expecting exponential WOW factors with HDM.

Unbelievable. I seriously don't understand why some people watch movies. Heaven forbid a director wants his/her movie to look a certain way. Not all movies have a 3D pop (seriously, what does 3D pop actually mean?) and look digitally altered ala Crank and Chronicles of Riddick. You must really hate movies like Sleepy Hollow and the Adventures of Robin Hood. Man, inherent film grain is terrible...

At first it's only my personal criticism of the movie and Universal and I am not sure why things are being taken so personally.

I liked the green hues used in the Matrix trilogy coz all the 3 parts were shot consistently with them. With respect to Bourne series Identity hardly had green hues. Supremacy had it throughout the movie which puzzled me. Supremacy is going to contain a slight blue hue with lots of usage of hand held cameras.

Btw my first Hi-def purchases were A2 and MI-3 / V for Vendetta. So don't come to an absurd conclusion that I am a blu boy.

At first it's only my personal criticism of the movie and Universal and I am not sure why things are being taken so personally.

I liked the green hues used in the Matrix trilogy coz all the 3 parts were shot consistently with them. With respect to Bourne series Identity hardly had green hues. Supremacy had it throughout the movie which puzzled me. Supremacy is going to contain a slight blue hue with lots of usage of hand held cameras.

Btw my first Hi-def purchases were A2 and MI-3 / V for Vendetta. So don't come to an absurd conclusion that I am a blu boy.

I see you're using the old I own both formats so I can't be biased defense made ever so popular by thebland. Ok, sure!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have to agree with the OP that the PQ on HD was dissapointing,I thought the SD version looked better.

Okay I have to jump in here too as I created a thread over on avforums.com about something similar to the original poster and to moviegeek above.

I have the SD DVD version and just received the HD DVD version of Supremacy. I tried to show the wife the huge difference between SD DVD and HD DVD and played both on my plasma. I had HDDVD connected via HDMI at 1080i and the SD DVD through scart (in order to heighten the affects of the hi def)......unfortunately the initially looked the same - scene by scene comparsion. Then around chapter 4 or 5 (not sure which) there is the scens of Joan Allen taling to Cox in a meeting room and in those scenes her complexion was saturated/dull in HDDVD, but tanned/bright in the SD DVD.

It is weird and I think personally it has something to do with 1080i and I will check it later at 720p.

My main concern is that how can 1080i look the same(slightly worse) than SD DVD (not upscaled) via Scart?

***Im not into the format war and Im only talking about SD DVD against the HDDVD version of Supremancy.....and not the difference between Identity and Supremacy***

OK, the PQ in both of those is average to say the least. The audio is great for DD+ though,

Now, what if the ultimatum looks great? Will they remaster the first two?

Count me in with those who feels Supremacy looks great. Dunno what the OP was watching.

I also chuckle at the comment that directors should not do what they want because some people may not like the style if ti doesn't "pop" off the screen. Come on....are you being serious? One of the more ridiculous things I have read in a while.

Mods, I started this thread and it looks like few members are taking my views personally and gone into bashing mode. My apologies if I had hurt anyones HD sentiments. Please close this thread.

Both look pretty good to me...not top tier, but very nice.

Friends,

With reference to my OP, I think I have made a terrible setup mistake while watching Supremacy. Looks like I had set the player to output at 480p and not 1080i. Re-watched Supremacy again at 1080i in a dark room and concur that the transfer is sharper (and also greener) than Identity. Though the intentional black crush was still annoying the close-ups were extremely and consistently sharp. Sorry for the confusion fellas. Now waiting for amazon to ship the third installment.