I don't think he was talking about Blu-Ray being difficult. I took him to be saying that the changing landscape of physical media has become difficult over the last few months. I think he was also making a joke :)

I guess I just don't get the "joke". (well, actually, I do get the inside joke about how difficult reef tanks are, I just don't think it applies here)

It's a format war. This type of "changing landscape of physical media" was pretty inevitable and anyone could (and should) have seen it coming sooner or later.

Don't be ridiculous. I had reef tanks for years, and there is no comparison. What exactly is so difficult about buying a Blu-ray player? :confused:

Who's being ridiculous nothing more relaxing the listening to good music and watching a great Saltwater tank.Use to love hand feeding my spotted sharks or the Moray eels
Why buy another BD player have 2 now was thinking about a PS3 but I like having choices not being led

It does seem ironic that the same people that were once hailing NetFlix and criticizing Blockbuster have done a complete 180. While there isn't any announcement yet, I find it hard to believe a similar move isn't around the corner for Blockbuster. If Blockbuster didn't feel it was worth it to have HD DVD in their stores, and now NetFlix is saying they are dropping HD DVD from their service, I wouldn't expect Blockbuster to carry on much longer. Perhaps, they will wait several months and reap the benefit from the HD DVD supports rushing back to their service. But after that, I feel they would likely do the same thing. It just seems to make good business sense. Whether that is them weighing the cost to profit ratio for HD DVD service or them receiving other incentives, I don't know. But, that seems to be the way business is going.

I responded to NF about just how upset I am about this change to their lineup and asked them that same question. People are just pissed because they assume you didn't search the existing posts as all for an answer to your question before putting up a new post with your question. I know how tough it can be sometimes to find an answer to a question you have, so i give it a solid effort then preface my new post with something saying that I have searched for an answer here and came up empty. Honestly I even get upset when some big news happens and their are like 20 new posts open up about it but with so many users its bound to happen. And sorry I haven't received an answer from NF yet.

They no longer lock threads in the HD-DVD area they just delete them. Pooper must me having dinner.:)

The problem really isn't netflix. it is Toshiba not going head to head with Sony. I have and love A3 and am quite ticked over this latest hurdle, but I don't blame netflix.

And despite what everyone proclaims, I like many others are not ticked that Netflix is ditching HD DVD by the end of the year, but that I must now go out and spend over $300 for the privilege of watching bluray. I bought my A3 with 9 free movies from VE for $149 so I have actually lost nothing by riding HD DVD while it is lasting. I could pawn each of those on feebay for about $10 each. This means I spent $60 on an excellent upconverting HD DVD player that happens to play exclusive titles like Transformers.

We on the HD DVD side have all been winners. And I still think those that went red first made the right decision. In fact, the A3 is such a good upscaler that I myself am having trouble justifying $400 for the increased quality over Toshiba SD upconverted versus bluray only titles.

I watch on a 720p 92" inch greyhawk screen. There is a difference, but it SD is still fully watchable... and enjoyable. So I am happy.

It is not like we didn't see this eventually coming. Most peolple have been in a state of denial this past month. If you hadn't jumped in, you would probably agree with me.


The 5 stages of being an HD DVD owner this past month and a half

1) Anger - Anger that companies you thought would pull HD DVD ahead stabbed the format in the back. Et tu Brutus.

2) Denial - Toshiba's lowering the prices has nothing to do with beginning of HD DVD's demise. The sky is not falling.

3) Bargaining - Coming on AVS forums and convincing folks that HD DVD will still come through. Thinking of strategies that you think will work. Waiting for the Toshiba Superbowl ad to come on only to realize it wasn't aired in your market.

4) Depression - Seeing the sad excuse for a superbowl ad online. Thinking to yourself, "What did I do? Why did I waste my money". Finding out that you won't even be able to rent HD DVDs for it by the end of the year.

5) Acceptance - Finally coming to the realization that you indeed make the best decision given the circumstances. You paid less than half the cost of a BR player and got 7-9 free movies with it. You were able to judge first hand if HDM was right for you and can now make a more informed decision if you want to mortgage your house for BR player. Enjoying the movies you have knowing that you have an excellent upconverter in case both formats eventually fail.

I am glad I dove in when I did. I know what I am missing out on while waiting for BR prices to come down. I know that I am not really missing as much as many people make it out to be. I know that the people who say, " that once you watch HDM, you can never watch SD again" either don't own a player or are too into the graphical quality to pay attention to the story (or are watching it on an HD player that upconverts poorly)

It's a format war. This type of "changing landscape of physical media" was pretty inevitable and anyone could (and should) have seen it coming sooner or later.Well I agree with you there :)

The problem really isn't netflix. it is Toshiba not going head to head with Sony. I have and love A3 and am quite ticked over this latest hurdle, but I don't blame netflix.



I don't think Toshiba has the muscle to take on sony, but Microsoft does. I have been wondering why have they not got more involved. I think we can count on them for keeping HD DVD alive but they are not willing to do what it takes to win. I can understand them not putting it in the 360 with the losses on the origninal xbox. There is no point for them to put it internally if the game discs do not need it, but they could more in marketing and making the product more visible and the choice of retailers with incentives. I for one believe HDDVD is the better product and continue to purchase HD DVD discs despite recent news announcements. If the format completely disappears which I think is a very small chance those combo discs provide extra insurance.

Thanks for the reply. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what Netflix does.

As for people getting pissed at me: it strikes me a more hospitable attitude toward a question that has already been asked is a quick link to the appropriate thread and then the new thread dies a timely death. That's what I'm used to from most sites. Just a thought.

But with that, I'll retire and let the thread be deleted. Didn't mean to cause a problem, guys.

I responded to NF about just how upset I am about this change to their lineup and asked them that same question. People are just pissed because they assume you didn't search the existing posts as all for an answer to your question before putting up a new post with your question. I know how tough it can be sometimes to find an answer to a question you have, so i give it a solid effort then preface my new post with something saying that I have searched for an answer here and came up empty. Honestly I even get upset when some big news happens and their are like 20 new posts open up about it but with so many users its bound to happen. And sorry I haven't received an answer from NF yet.

I don't think Toshiba has the muscle to take on sony, but Microsoft does. I have been wondering why have they not got more involved. I think we can count on them for keeping HD DVD alive but they are not willing to do what it takes to win. I can understand them not putting it in the 360 with the losses on the origninal xbox. There is no point for them to put it internally if the game discs do not need it, but they could more in marketing and making the product more visible and the choice of retailers with incentives. I for one believe HDDVD is the better product and continue to purchase HD DVD discs despite recent news announcements. If the format completely disappears which I think is a very small chance those combo discs provide extra insurance.

I think Microsoft backed HD DVD because Sony backed Bluray and nothing more. In some ways, I think the reason that some of the studios went HD DVD exclusive is because they felt that HD DVD would lose. By releasing in the losing format, they could hold back their big releases like Jurassic Park and such for when there was an actual base to sell these disks too. Why do you think Lucas waited so long to put star wars on DVD.

anyone who releases an archived title now on either format will not really make the profit on it that they will if they wait until a format is mainstream. It is like poker, you don't put all your chips in right away. you wait until the hand is dealt and the pot is ready to be taken

Just called Netflix to protest the dropping of HD DVD. The guy said he had gotten a number of calls. Said it was a "business decision". Said Blu Ray was winning. Continued to argue.

I told him that I did not call to argue. I wanted him to pass on my unhappiness. That I could make my own "business decision" as to whether to drop Netflix.

Call Netflix. 888-638-3549. Even tho we know that Flu Rag is destined to win, enough phone calls can at least prolong the time before Netflix no longer offers HD DVD.

The email says that the movies in your "Save" queue will be changed to SD. The "Save" queue is for movies that have not been released yet.

Just called Netflix to protest the dropping of HD DVD. The guy said he had gotten a number of calls. Said it was a "business decision". Said Blu Ray was winning. Continued to argue.

I told him that I did not call to argue. I wanted him to pass on my unhappiness. That I could make my own "business decision" as to whether to drop Netflix.

Call Netflix. 888-638-3549. Even tho we know that Flu Rag is destined to win, enough phone calls can at least prolong the time before Netflix no longer offers HD DVD.

Why are you harrassing the poor $5/hour employees who can do nothing to help you with this?

4) Depression - Thinking to yourself, "What did I do? Why did I waste my money". Finding out that you won't even be able to rent HD DVDs for it by the end of the year.

...And look at your sizable collection picked up from people dumped their collections because they thought "losing the format war" meant "movies will no longer play", then pop in Transformers and turn on the web enabled GPS mode and watch the Decepticon health bars drop as they're getting beat down and think "Oh yeah, THAT's why I bought it."

Dead or not, it will be years before BluFocus can help the studios with their numerous programming issues and profile 2.0 players/releases finally reach parity with what's on HD DVD TODAY

Thanks for the reply. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what Netflix does.

As for people getting pissed at me: it strikes me a more hospitable attitude toward a question that has already been asked is a quick link to the appropriate thread and then the new thread dies a timely death. That's what I'm used to from most sites. Just a thought.

But with that, I'll retire and let the thread be deleted. Didn't mean to cause a problem, guys.

Not pissed but just pointing out that for people to post a link requires THEM to do your search for you. As a friendly suggestion, set your user settings to show all new posts since your last visit, then you can quickly see the new posts.

Statements like this amaze me because I've rented dozens of HD-DVD's from Netflix and I haven't a problem with any of them. In fact out of the 14 HD-DVD's I've bought, two of them arrived defective! It wouldn't surprise me if the defective discs people are getting are brand new and were always defective.

Statements like yours about not having ANY problems with the dozens of HD-DVD rentals surprise me considering mine and many others personal experiences. Most the discs that I have had issues with were certainly not new as they looked pretty beat up and the HD-DVD discs seem very sensitive to any blemish when it comes to playback. I have very rarely had a SD-DVD playback issue and not one BR playback issue yet.

Well, just finished moving my 40 movies from netflix to blockbuster. what a pain. with BB it seems you can't specify your format of choice. you have to hover your mouse over the title, wait for a pop up box to appear, and then click on "other versions". then you finally can select the one you want.

if somebody knows another way, let me know.

netflix is cancelled. even if blockbuster also cancels hd-dvd tomorrow, at least i can turn in my blu-rays locally and pick up new ones. so at least in my case, netflix might have lost a customer for a while.

i also found it amusing that some of the titles that had very long waits in my netflix queue, suddenly became available. Gameplan finally shipped.

That is one of the reasons that I left blockbuster besides poor service. I felt like they were postitioning themselves to abandon HD DVD. I see no reason to feel any differently. my local BB don't even stock HD DVDs ... only BR.


It is only a matter of time for Blockbuster online to go blu exclusive considering they are allready doing this for instore rentals.

Just called Netflix to protest the dropping of HD DVD. The guy said he had gotten a number of calls. Said it was a "business decision". Said Blu Ray was winning. Continued to argue.

I told him that I did not call to argue. I wanted him to pass on my unhappiness. That I could make my own "business decision" as to whether to drop Netflix.

Call Netflix. 888-638-3549. Even tho we know that Flu Rag is destined to win, enough phone calls can at least prolong the time before Netflix no longer offers HD DVD.

I called them earlier and told them I would be sending my discs back tonight and cancelling my Netflix service with them after 9+ years. As soon as they receive my discs I will be dropping them.

It is only a matter of time for Blockbuster online to go blu exclusive considering they are allready doing this for instore rentals.

How come in Canada Blockbuster is format neutral?

For anyone who ownes both formats there is some positive that should come out of this. Chances are Netflix will stock a lot more blu-ray now so we dont have as many short/long/very long/maybe in 2009, waiting to deal with. Funny thing is that I got 3 BR discs last week that I have been trying to get for a while that still had a wait period by the title in my que, but they shipped them out even with the wait. Maybe they are allready uping the BR stock which would be great.

How come in Canada Blockbuster is format neutral?

I'll clarify this to mean all Canadian Blockbuster stores carry both formats in store.

How come in Canada Blockbuster is format neutral?

Interesting, as I did not know that.

Well, just finished moving my 40 movies from netflix to blockbuster. what a pain. with BB it seems you can't specify your format of choice. you have to hover your mouse over the title, wait for a pop up box to appear, and then click on "other versions". then you finally can select the one you want.

if somebody knows another way, let me know.

netflix is cancelled. even if blockbuster also cancels hd-dvd tomorrow, at least i can turn in my blu-rays locally and pick up new ones. so at least in my case, netflix might have lost a customer for a while.

i also found it amusing that some of the titles that had very long waits in my netflix queue, suddenly became available. Gameplan finally shipped.


Blockbuster Total Access Direct Links: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=844338

You should be able to just click the links and have the titles added to your queue.

Netflix had a troublesome disc format (lots of unplayable/scratched discs)...lots of angry cutomers with discs that didn't play...too many headaches for Netflix overall I'd bet.

So of course they wanted out...

It was a 100% wise move on their part...calling them to argue and protest will do nothing but impead calls from their current happy customers etc....it will not help get HD DVD back into their business plan.


They see that Blu is making them moeny and has way fewer scratched discs most likley.

I applaud Netflix for cutting their losses early on.

Even though I own and have supported both formats, I agree with you and I dont blame Netfilx for the reason you mention. This is one area where blu-ray has a big advantage over HD-DVD from all my experience with both formats over the past several months.

Just received this email from Netflix in response to my email about their decision:

Same as the one I indicated I got. Same form letter.

But calling and complaining like crazy does help the HD DVD zealots to feel better.

Just like the BD zealots would be doing just like they did when Paramount went HD DVD.:)

Just got the netflix email. I've had a hard time getting HD DVD movies from netflix. Some movies I've been waiting for 6-7 weeks! This has probably driven me over the edge. I headed over to the Blu-ray camp. Time to sell the trusty ol' xa1 and find a replacment Blu-ray machine. :(

Just got the netflix email. I've had a hard time getting HD DVD movies from netflix. Some movies I've been waiting for 6-7 weeks! This has probably driven me over the edge. I headed over to the Blu-ray camp. Time to sell the trusty ol' xa1 and find a replacment Blu-ray machine. :(

I have the Panny BD10 it has been a great player at this time I would wait to see what the Panny BD50 and make sure they take care of the LFE issue if your looking for stand alone I have been looking at adding a PS3 like I need another player.:)

Just like the BD zealots would be doing just like they did when Paramount went HD DVD.:)

I acknowledge the point, but I can also point out that I (and other BD supporters) did, in fact, point out the absurdity of such action. This included a ridiculous recommendation to contact the U.S. Attorney's office for possible anti-trust violations when Paramount went with HD DVD. :rolleyes:

So yes, there is some hypocrisy that has taken place. But not on my part! :)

I got into HD movies because I love HD movies not because I love Sony or Toshiba. I just don't understand why people are so format loyal when neither Toshiba or Sony are concerned about you. Do you really think that Toshiba cares anymore about you that Sony does? I don't think so. All of those big companies for the most part only care about their pocket book. If you make a decision to be an early adopter you take a chance of losing. And if so, so be it as unfortunate as it may be.

I acknowledge the point, but I can also point out that I (and other BD supporters) did, in fact, point out the absurdity of such action. This included a ridiculous recommendation to contact the U.S. Attorney's office for possible anti-trust violations when Paramount went with HD DVD. :rolleyes:

So yes, there is some hypocrisy that has taken place. But not on my part! :)

+1

Well, just finished moving my 40 movies from netflix to blockbuster. what a pain. with BB it seems you can't specify your format of choice. you have to hover your mouse over the title, wait for a pop up box to appear, and then click on "other versions". then you finally can select the one you want.

if somebody knows another way, let me know.

netflix is cancelled. even if blockbuster also cancels hd-dvd tomorrow, at least i can turn in my blu-rays locally and pick up new ones. so at least in my case, netflix might have lost a customer for a while.

i also found it amusing that some of the titles that had very long waits in my netflix queue, suddenly became available. Gameplan finally shipped.I also cancelled with Netflix and migrated to Blockbuster after adding all of my former Netflix titles.

Unfortunately, Blockbuster doesn't have a preference setting, and you can't switch formats in the queue like you could with Netflix. On the other hand, you can browse by format by selecting HD DVD from the collections tab. That's what I did, and it seemed they had a few selections that weren't available from Netflix.

Coincidentally, my Netflix account expired tomorrow, so the cancellation timing was perfect. The two people I spoke with said they had gotten quite a few calls about this, and would pass on the information.

I doubt it will do any good, but even a symbolic move to support HD DVD is worth it to me at this point.

Scott

I got into HD movies because I love HD movies not because I love Sony or Toshiba. I just don't understand why people are so format loyal when neither Toshiba or Sony are concerned about you. Do you really think that Toshiba cares anymore about you that Sony does? I don't think so. All of those big companies for the most part only care about their pocket book. If you make a decision to be an early adopter you take a chance of losing. And if so, so be it as unfortunate as it may be.

Couldn't have said it better myself!

+1

:cool:



I doubt it will do any good, but even a symbolic move to support HD DVD is worth it to me at this point.

Scott

Accepting the fact that it is a symbolic move is a good start. ;)

Statements like yours about not having ANY problems with the dozens of HD-DVD rentals surprise me considering mine and many others personal experiences.
This is a head scratcher.

Most the discs that I have had issues with were certainly not new as they looked pretty beat up and the HD-DVD discs seem very sensitive to any blemish when it comes to playback.
This seems to depend mostly on the player. I've bought two HD-DVD's that didn't work until a firmware upgrade magically fixed them. For example the third disc in the Matrix trilogy wouldn't play but I didn't like it anyway so I didn't return it. Several firmware updates later I tried playing it for kicks and incredibly it played from beginning to the end. Still didn't like it. :)

I've gotten some very beat up HD-DVD's that played with no problems. "Blood Diamond" was one that showed up with a big gash on it and all I had to do was cross my fingers and it played. I was very surprised.

I have very rarely had a SD-DVD playback issue and not one BR playback issue yet.
I've had some issues with regular DVD's but they were mostly because they arrived smashed to pieces.

I'm curious how long the expensive coating on BR discs will last before it starts to delaminate. It seems like the coating would only protect the disc for a certain amount of time before it would fail.

I received a email from Netflix this morning, stating that they are dropping HD DVD, and will be BLU-RAY exclusive. Pretty dissapointing, as I only rent HD DVD's.

I'm just a bit PO'd because Sony plays dirty, and Toshiba was/is not willing to do what is necessary to compete with a company like that. I wouldn't bother, I know there is not point. I am just hostel toward BD right now.

Sony had nothing to do with an idiot vandalizing product. There is no evidence that Sony had anything do with Netflix's decision. Sony is not the only company supporting Blu-Ray.

And, Toshiba could have changed the current landscape by doing ANYTHING. But, they apparently chose to do nothing.

I never said that they haven't played dirty, or that Sony had nothing to do with NetFlix's decision. What I do know is that Toshiba obviously held back as much as possible in THIS fight. That's what gets me going. It's almost like they didn't want HD DVD to win because of how little they have done in comparison to BD. (And I know in reality Toshiba wanted HD to win, just saying it looks like that when compared to BD's marketing.)
I think I am allowed to say a bunch of stupid crap, especially with no intention of doing it. Then with Toshiba not really doing anything, it's just fuel for the fire.


Being annoyed is perfectly understandable. Personally, I was shocked at how anemic the HD DVD group's press release was yesterday.

There, bassmonkeee understands. I showed HD DVD to my mother, and she was shocked at the cost of the players because the quality was the SAME as BD. SHOCKED I TELL YOU! Toshiba's only option was to get stores to display HD DVD's. That wouldn't not have cost too much and sales would go through the roof. (Comparing directly to Blu-Ray) Almost nothing needed, so Toshiba sits around twiddling there thumbs.

All I can say is I'm stuck with the recent announcement by Netflix about HD DVD. I don't buy lots of movies. I was thinking of using Blockbuster but I remember seeing a poll here whereby netflix was favored 80% versus 20% for HD DVD rentals!

This is a head scratcher.


This seems to depend mostly on the player. I've bought two HD-DVD's that didn't work until a firmware upgrade magically fixed them. For example the third disc in the Matrix trilogy wouldn't play but I didn't like it anyway so I didn't return it. Several firmware updates later I tried playing it for kicks and incredibly it played from beginning to the end. Still didn't like it. :)

I've gotten some very beat up HD-DVD's that played with no problems. "Blood Diamond" was one that showed up with a big gash on it and all I had to do was cross my fingers and it played. I was very surprised.


I've had some issues with regular DVD's but they were mostly because they arrived smashed to pieces.

I'm curious how long the expensive coating on BR discs will last before it starts to delaminate. It seems like the coating would only protect the disc for a certain amount of time before it would fail.


I have had 3 players (A1, A35, XA2) and all are/were kept up to date with the latest FW and still have/had issues.

I'm just a bit PO'd because Sony plays dirty, and Toshiba was/is not willing to do what is necessary to compete with a company like that. I wouldn't bother, I know there is not point. I am just hostel toward BD right now.

I started laughing out loud when I read this....then, sadly, I realized that you were probably serious!

Once BB online also goes BR exclusive then that will be the final nail in the HD DVD coffin....game, set, match.... Blu-Ray wins!

SO Many rent rather than buy...that will be HUGE for BR.

At BB, I have 67 in my Queue....19 are HD...the rest BR. Of those 19 HD, only 1 is available!


*Purple*

I never said that they haven't played dirty, or that Sony had nothing to do with NetFlix's decision. What I do know is that Toshiba obviously held back as much as possible in THIS fight.
Well, geez, they released full-featured HD-DVD players at incredibly low prices. I guess they thought the consumer would like that.

But if people don't know the quality being offerd, why would they care what the price is?

Time for new friends....perhaps some that are adults.

+1

Once BB online also goes BR exclusive then that will be the final nail in the HD DVD coffin....game, set, match.... Blu-Ray wins!

SO Many rent rather than buy...that will be HUGE for BR.

At BB, I have 67 in my Queue....19 are HD...the rest BR. Of those 19 HD, only 1 is available!


*Purple*

HD DVD is already dead. Many of us are probably going to pass on joining BB to see what their next move is. I'm not signing on with them only to have them pull the same thing. I'm just going to sit tight for the next few months and watch.

Not sure if this has already been mentioned but there 'could' be other reasoning behind Netflix decision.

Given that BR has won (albiet no surrender yet):

How many will replace ALL their DVD players with Blu-Ray players?
Even if people were willing to do that there is no viable players for cars and portable.

So how many with both their legacy DVD players and a Blu-Ray player will double dip and get both SD & BR version?

So:
If you buy the BR movie you are likely to still rent SD for kids
If you buy the SD movie you are Lilly to still rent the BR version.

In my case majority of movies I buy tend to be kid friendly and kids like to play them in their bedrooms, car and on flights.

So when I do finally buy a BR player (which I will eventually) looks like vast majority of my BR movies will be rentals.......

Now a managed SD copy may solve above for some (inc me)

I doubt I'm am alone in the above thinking so Netflix have guaranteed future renters.

Once BB online also goes BR exclusive then that will be the final nail in the HD DVD coffin....game, set, match.... Blu-Ray wins!

SO Many rent rather than buy...that will be HUGE for BR.

At BB, I have 67 in my Queue....19 are HD...the rest BR. Of those 19 HD, only 1 is available!


*Purple*

Wouldn’t it be funny if BlockBuster said that they were switching to HD-DVD? I swear that company is so messed up I wouldn’t put it past them!

....
How many will replace ALL their DVD players with Blu-Ray players?
Even if people were willing to do that there is no viable players for cars and portable.


I've replaced all my DVD players that aren't portable with HD-DVD players, so no, I am not replacing my HD-DVD player with a substandard BD player. I also use my combo discs in my portable units (car, etc.) - that was one of the things I like about HD-DVD.

I love watching hi def movies, I'm a total renter, never buy, and to me both formats let me indulge my passion. Of course now that that NF is pulling the plug on the hddvd, the delays from BB on hddvd are going to be very painful. Since I have both format players as long as I can get the movies on BD, but with some studios,(2??) exclusive to hddvd, those movies will really be backlogged at BB. That's what really yanks me off!
joe

Lucky me. I just had Bourne Ultimatum shipped to me today after having it in my queue forever.

After signing up with BB yesterday they shipped "The Kingdom" to me today. That was the one HD-DVD that had been in my Netflix queue forever.

I have to say that I just got off the phone with Netflix and they saved me as a customer. I am an HD-DVD fan but I am format neutral with the LG computer combo drive. I rent 5 at a time and I have both HD-DVD and Blu-rays in my queue.

I called to complain that several of my HD-DVDs had been listed as shipping earlier today and then they disappeared out of my queue all together. The nice lady on the phone assured me that their website was having problems today and that the movies that were
“Shipping” would be shipped. Also as a courtesy she bumped me up on the priority for a movie I was trying to get. I was very happy with how the whole conversation went.

Now I know that it is disappointing that they dropped HD-DVD. I was on the verge of switching back to BB(The darkside) when I heard that. However, you have to understand that two formats is not profitable for these companies. And the only format that appears to have longevity right now is Blu-ray.

I know it sucks but that is what capitalism is all about! Oh yea just wait till BB removes the in store exchanges altogether and jacks your rate up another 20%.

If you want a Blu-ray/HD-DVD player for cheap then just buy the LG Combo drive for about $220. A $50 ATI video card will allow any computer to play the movies. For less than $300(And a computer that you currently have) you can be format neutral as well!

what about the cost of the software to play blu ray and hd dvd on the computer?

Now I know that it is disappointing that they dropped HD-DVD. I was on the verge of switching back to BB(The darkside) when I heard that. However, you have to understand that two formats is not profitable for these companies. And the only format that appears to have longevity right now is Blu-ray.

The only format that they make money off of is DVD. They're losing money on Blu-Ray. They'll just lose less money by not buying HD-DVD titles.

Also as a courtesy she bumped me up on the priority for a movie I was trying to get. I was very happy with how the whole conversation went.

A movie I was trying to get just got bumped DOWN. Thanks a lot!

Wouldn’t it be funny if BlockBuster said that they were switching to HD-DVD? I swear that company is so messed up I wouldn’t put it past them!

Since BB is in serious financial trouble it may be a great move for them. With the flurry of sales going on for hardware these people are going to want to watch movies. They will be the only way for many of the HD DVD supporters to get rentals. I am sure they are seeing a spike in membership right now. I know I am canceling Netflix.

The only format that they make money off of is DVD. They're losing money on Blu-Ray. They'll just lose less money by not buying HD-DVD titles.

Link?

Dropping HD DVD at this point is a disservice to Netflix customers. In my view, this decision would have been appropriate only if Universal and Paramount had switched to (or added) Blu-ray. I think the "neutral" position was, and still should be, the best policy for Netflix. Surely there's room in the warehouse and database for a few hundred niche titles.

Dropping HD DVD at this point is a disservice to Netflix customers. In my view, this decision would have been appropriate only if Universal and Paramount had switched to (or added) Blu-ray. I think the "neutral" position was, and still should be, the best policy for Netflix. Surely there's room in the warehouse and database for a few hundred niche titles.

Totally agree...I had to dash off a email about my disappointment with their decision last night.

I'm *seriously* considering dropping my Netflix membership over this move.

UPDATE: I just cancelled Netflix over this move.

Well I had a good run with Netflix for HD-DVD. I hope enough of us go to BB for it to be beneficial for them to keep the RED discs coming.

Yes - if we all got to BB it will give us more of a voice somewhere. Instead of being second class at two places we will be the majority in one. I just hope BB starts buying more discs to take care of the new renters.

Well, unfortunately, I have had bad experiences with Blockbuster (and any other mass store for that matter). Basically, I use enough technology that I tend to run into the biggest problems. Last time I went there, I had to get 3 replacement disks for a rental, and they didn't offer anything until I demanded to see the manager. The manager just gave me a free rental. ONE free rental. Not as bad as my recent BestBuy issue, which has caused me to do a complete boycott of them no matter what, but still it was bad.

Totally agree...I had to dash off a email about my disappointment with their decision last night. I'm *seriously* considering dropping my Netflix membership over this move.
My post was adapted from what I sent to Netflix yesterday.

I'm NOT dropping Netflix. There's really no practical alternative for me.

I went through their entire list of HD DVDs and added to my queue ALL of the titles that I'd like to see. I then re-ordered my queue so that all of my HD DVD titles are near the top.

Perhaps when I finish watching these titles, I'd add Blockbuster online in the (unlikely) event that they are still carrying HD DVD.

However, you have to understand that two formats is not profitable for these companies. And the only format that appears to have longevity right now is Blu-ray.With all studios to be exclusive very shortly, what difference does it make whether they stock a title in BD or HD DVD? I can almost understand not wanting to stock the same title in two formats, but why would it matter once all titles are exclusive to one or the other?

Scott

According to Netflix's email, at least some HD DVDs will be available through the latter part of the year. I'm guessing they're phasing them out? Right now, all the HD DVD owners are piling their HD DVD selections on top of their queue...LOL....no, wait...:(

what about the cost of the software to play blu ray and hd dvd on the computer?
It comes bundled with the LG drive.

According to Netflix's email, at least some HD DVDs will be available through the latter part of the year. I'm guessing they're phasing them out? Right now, all the HD DVD owners are piling their HD DVD selections on top of their queue...LOL....no, wait...:(


It comes bundled with the LG drive.

They are phasing out their existing HD-DVD stock, and once a disk is damaged they will not restock it. Also, starting right now they will no longer be ordering ANY new HD-DVDs. This includes all the new titles that are coming out in the next few months.

I'm sure Netflix won't throw all HD DVDs in the garbage. It'll take some time for them to reduce from attrition. My guess is that it'll take 4-6 months to exhaust the current stock.

They are phasing out their existing HD-DVD stock, and once a disk is damaged they will not restock it. Also, starting right now they will no longer be ordering ANY new HD-DVDs. This includes all the new titles that are coming out in the next few months.

Many of these titles will only be available on HD DVD, at least for the foreseeable future...

It's not just strict HD DVD owners that are getting the shaft, but all HDM consumers that own both formats.

A movie I was trying to get just got bumped DOWN. Thanks a lot!

Call and politely complain. I called three times in the last 24 hours. I now have 8 HD-DVDs shipping to me today! They accidentally double shipped two movies but what the heck. At least, I got 5 HD-DVDs that I wanted!

I agree. We can only speculate as to the causes that drove them to make this decision. Maybe they are privy to information that we don't have about up coming changes in the format war?

I don't think it's just financial.

Dropping HD DVD at this point is a disservice to Netflix customers. In my view, this decision would have been appropriate only if Universal and Paramount had switched to (or added) Blu-ray. I think the "neutral" position was, and still should be, the best policy for Netflix. Surely there's room in the warehouse and database for a few hundred niche titles.

I agree. We can only speculate as to the causes that drove them to make this decision. Maybe they are privy to information that we don't have about up coming changes in the format war?

I don't think it's just financial.
I'm sure they are privy to industry info we don't know about. As much as I hate to say it, it's not a matter of IF, but WHEN Universal and Paramount go blue. I predict by the end of the year or sooner. The format war is over. All that remains is picking up the pieces, clearing inventory and shutting down production lines. And, sadly, that will happen - short of some industry shakeup and a miracle. Netflix knows this and is simply preparing for the new HDM standard.

And that's why I am staying with NetFlix. Even from the start, they remained neutral until something big happened. Well Warner was something big. Then Best Buy (the rotten store they are) says they are going to promote Blu-Ray only (like that's anything new.), but keep HD DVD as an option. As much as I hate it, I am not going to be getting any more HD DVD's for the same reason. Keep looses low. I will keep renting as long as I can, but that's all.

Maybe they are privy to information that we don't have about up coming changes in the format war?

I don't think it's just financial.

Of course they are privy to information we don't have and yes it is financial.

During my brief period as a true insider, I learned that Block Buster negotiates each movie directly with the owners. Their lawyers sit down in a room with the lawyers representing the owners of the film and they work out a price. The price almost always per movie, not per DVD. They only pay duplication costs for the disks.

Netflix certainly works in a similar fashion. They have a close working relationship with the big studios. While we don't know what goes on, we can guess. Either Sony made them an offer that was too good to pass up, or they know the last two studios are going blue.


Short term, I'm annoyed at Netflix. Their announcement is premature. Over the next few months there are quite a few movies we want to watch that are HD DVD only.

Long term, I don't care. Our Toshiba is a great SD DVD player. If our next box that plays rented movies is Blu Ray, Apple TV, or the next great thing, well that's fine.

... Short term, I'm annoyed at Netflix. Their announcement is premature. Over the next few months there are quite a few movies we want to watch that are HD DVD only. ... Long term, I don't care. ..
Agreed.

I find the stated reasons in their press release to be quite unpersuasive. They already have the infrastructure to handle 3 formats. Keeping 400 to 600 extra titles out of 90,000 hardly seems a huge burden. The beauty of the Netflix model is that they can accommodate many niche titles. For example, look at the Foreign genre and all the various nationalities and languages.

I hope we will eventually learn more about why this decision was made.

Agreed.
I find the stated reasons in their press release to be quite unpersuasive. They already have the infrastructure to handle 3 formats. Keeping 400 to 600 extra titles out of 90,000 hardly seems a huge burden.
They also stated they're dropping HD because hardly anyone rents them which is an outright lie. I have had Bourne Ultimatum in my Q for almost 3 months now and it still shows "Long Wait":mad:
I don't care anymore, I dropped Netflix yesterday and signed up with Blockbuster. Took about 40 minutes and it was well worth it. Fo only 2 bucks a month more = $19.95, I get 3 at a time AND I get to exchange 5 movies a month at the local store. This will elimintae all those times where I was left without a movie on the weekend because Netflix didn't show up.
Also, yesterday I contact B-buster about some issues on their site and got an mmediate response from a real person. NONE, of my e-mails to Netflix were ever answered by anybody. The HD movies were also very easy to find, where on Netflix it seemed like they tried to hide new movies in order to decrease their back-log.
I felt a sense of loyalty to Netflix becasue they got rid of late fee''s and pioneered a new way of renting. They were great for a while but eventually became victims of their own success. the E-mail letter telling me " We're going Blue ray, all your HD'swill be converted back to SD" was the last straw. Yesterday when I canceled I got a pretty nasty canned response telling me they were still going to charge me for the ful month but if I didn't return my movies in 7 days they would simply bill me the cost of the movie.:mad:
Screw them, not only am I done with Netflix I am never going back.

Believe me, Netflix wouldn't do ANYTHING that would have a negative financial impact. This is a pure financial and marketing move to generate the highest profit possible. Obviously they feel that keeping HD DVD will hurt the bottom line.

Believe me, Netflix wouldn't do ANYTHING that would have a negative financial impact. This is a pure financial and marketing move to generate the highest profit possible. Obviously they feel that keeping HD DVD will hurt the bottom line.

Agree, however there is no way the bottom line was not somehow influenced by Sony. It makes no sense to drop HDDVD and continue with blu, which should provide similar profit. In fact at one point Netflix stated they were renting more HDDVD than blu.

Now if Sony cuts a deal where they will provide all their movies at cost of manufacture (basically free) as long as Netflix drops HDDVD, then what do you expect them to do. I suspect something like this is what happened. I doubt there was an actual cash payment.

Ya, plus I remember an announcement saying that the damage rates were the same as the regular DVD damage rates.

But I do know that the lawsuit against Samsung over the Blu-Ray player functionality will cause some looks. Depending on how it goes, this could be a big nasty hit on Blu-Ray and NetFlix will just switch again if needed or cost worthy.

Coming from a neutral guy...

Personally I think this is a real Richard move on Netflix's part. They are a RENTAL service. Choosing to ignore a whole segment of renters seems nuts to me. Going Blu only is a dumb as going HD only. Hey...why not stop renting SDDVD's altogether to try to get the whole world to go HD?

If that sounds dumb to you then choosing to push one HD format over the other should also sound dumb.

WHY does NF care who rents what? AFAIK they should bulk up on VHS tapes also for all of the people who never went DVD! It's too bad they're too heavy to ship profitably.

People like choices...VHS, DVD, HDDVD and Blu-Ray are all choices. I don't see how giving the bird to owners of any format helps them. It's not like there's only 2000 HD players out there. There are 100's of thousands. These people rent movies...right?

I did get one HDDVD that was scratched enough to cause it to skip in one place...once. But just recently I got 2 Blu's in a row w/ a 1/2 in crack on the end. The CS @ Netflix even told me that happens more w/ their Blu stock than the HD stock.

Whatever...WTF do I know about anything. It just seems like it's nuts for a RENTAL service to get involved in the politics of this mess. Just rent ALL disks and STFU. :D

Agree, however there is no way the bottom line was not somehow influenced by Sony. It makes no sense to drop HDDVD and continue with blu, which should provide similar profit. In fact at one point Netflix stated they were renting more HDDVD than blu.

Now if Sony cuts a deal where they will provide all their movies at cost of manufacture (basically free) as long as Netflix drops HDDVD, then what do you expect them to do. I suspect something like this is what happened. I doubt there was an actual cash payment.

What you stated could be true. Whatever the "incentive" was, it was based solely on profitability. Netflix dropped HD DVD because in "some way" it would be more profitable to do so -- even considering those they KNOW will drop their membership. Netflix is a "for profit" company and whatever decisions they make are based on what would produce the greatest profit for them and their stock holders.

I see some here are doing what I'm going to do, keep NF, and once the hddvd pipeline shuts down, add BB, for the hddvd, but at the minimum membership, since there will be fewer titles exclusively on hddvd, at least that I'd want to see.

Did Netflix sabatoge HD DVD prior to their "announcement" I mean if they prevented people from getting discs then the data would be skewed enough for them to make a claim "we rent more blu" ....

Netflix stopped supporting hddvd, because hddvd will be dead by year end. Everyone in the industry already know this. As much as i hate sony, they won.

That's the reality.

The End.

Netflix stopped supporting hddvd, because hddvd will be dead by year end. Everyone in the industry already know this. As much as i hate sony, they won.

That's the reality.

The End.

NF had nothing to lose by renting HD DVD's. Nothing! They have no vested interest and if most peoples queues said long wait and very long wait for HD DVD's only proves the demand was there but for some reason all of a sudden they felt they didn't need that money any more. So when you talk about good business decisions, this one does not come anywhere near it!

NF had nothing to lose by renting HD DVD's. Nothing! They have no vested interest and if most peoples queues said long wait and very long wait for HD DVD's only proves the demand was there but for some reason all of a sudden they felt they didn't need that money any more. So when you talk about good business decisions, this one does not come anywhere near it!

Well, you can't really say that unless you know the real reason that they dropped HD-DVD. Maybe it was the sum of many reasons that led up to this decision. The thing is that nobody here knows the real reason why and everything is just speculation. How do you know that they had nothing to lose? You don't think a company like Netflix analyzed the decision and the possible outcomes of it? They expected to lose some subscribers over this decision but believe this is better for them in the long run which is why a decision like this would be made. Remember DVD is still their main market and where the large majority of their profits are.

Ok, now possible reasons why they MAY have dropped HD-DVD. My friend is format neutral in NY is a subscriber of Netflix and always tries to rent HD when possible over SD. When it comes to renting HD-DVD there are plenty of times when he received discs that are scratched and become unplayable or skip/freeze when playing and then he has to contact NF to replace the disk which takes even more time to mail back and forth and wastes his the number of movies he gets per month to benefit from such a subscription service. Some people in this thread have said they have no problems with dics, but if you look through it there are a lot of people who DO have problems with the discs playing. The HD-DVD surface is more vulnerable and sensitive to scratches and doesn't have the protective layer that Blu-ray has. Now to replace discs. NF can't just head out to the store to pick up a title for $30 off the shelf, they have to by a licensed copy to rent for a LOT higher price. This also leads to extended wait times to replace discs that are damaged back and forth. So unhappy customers here...

On the other side of things, Blu-ray also has a long wait time to rent movies and they can be unbelievably long at times. By carrying both formats, they have to juggle the ordering, storage, etc. for each format separately which may be a hassle. Sure they have 90,000+ DVDs stored, many of which are weak titles that nobody wants, but that is their main market anyways and allows them the ability to market "We have the most movies available for rent". So again, unhappy customers on both the HD-DVD and Blu-ray side for long wait times and damaged discs.

So the best way to deal with these problems is to choose a side and it just so happens that BD appears to be the strongest HD format in the near future. So they can now focus on Blu-ray renters and increase the supply of movies there to decrease wait times. Instead of having two sides of unhappy customers, they now only have one which is the HD-DVD side and it just so happens that you are one of those people. It also affects format neutral users who can only rent HD-DVD titles in SD. But now they can focus on providing better service for the HD market that they do have left. Just look at this Netflix thread and the one in the Blu-ray Software forum and you will see a lot of pissed off people at Netflix even before this announcement even came.

If you don't like it, you can just cancel your account and move on. Blockbuster online seems like the way to go right now, but it's not a secret that Blockbuster is very pro Blu-ray, so it wouldn't be too much of a surprise if they were to switch also in the future.

Thanks for the lecture, but if you don't work for NF than your post means NOTHING. And telling me what I should do is ignorant because I wasn't asking. I guess I'll stop there.

NF had nothing to lose by renting HD DVD's. Nothing! They have no vested interest and if most peoples queues said long wait and very long wait for HD DVD's only proves the demand was there but for some reason all of a sudden they felt they didn't need that money any more. So when you talk about good business decisions, this one does not come anywhere near it!

You can't say that because you don't know why they dropped it. If you don't work for NF your post means absolutely nothing. It's pure speculation. For all you know it was because HD DVD's are a mess in the mail. They are easily scratched and much more sensitive to playback issues than DVD let alone Blu-ray with it's hard coat. Maybe it doesn't make business sense for Netflix to keep replacing the discs several times over to garner the same amount of rental revenue per capita. HD DVD's are honestly the least durable medium I have ever used outside of LP's. The problem is they scratch like a regular DVD, but the scratches seem to affect them way more (I assume because the pits are so much smaller).

You can't say that because you don't know why they dropped it. If you don't work for NF your post means absolutely nothing. It's pure speculation. For all you know it was because HD DVD's are a mess in the mail. They are easily scratched and much more sensitive to playback issues than DVD let alone Blu-ray with it's hard coat. Maybe it doesn't make business sense for Netflix to keep replacing the discs several times over to garner the same amount of rental revenue per capita. HD DVD's are honestly the least durable medium I have ever used outside of LP's. The problem is they scratch like a regular DVD, but the scratches seem to affect them way more (I assume because the pits are so much smaller). I mean it's as reasonable an explanation as anything especially given the format is on its way out anyways.

If that was the reason then they should have said so! They didn't. All I know is there were a lot of people renting HD DVD's from them and they stopped regardless. In their press release, all they said was they were going blu and why, nothing about the suppose shortcomings of HD DVD ( sratches) as the reason you and others are trying to point out, so unless your an insider with NF, it's nothing but speculation and by trying to spread that as the reason why around these forums is nothing but FUD because there was nothing in their statement to back that up!

If that was the reason then they should have said so! They didn't. All I know is there were a lot of people renting HD DVD's from them and they stopped regardless. In their press release, all they said was they were going blu and why, nothing about the suppose shortcomings of HD DVD ( sratches) as the reason you and others are trying to point out, so unless your an insider with NF, it's nothing but speculation and by trying to spread that as the reason why around these forums is nothing but FUD because there was nothing in their statement to back that up!

Why? Why would they have to explain all of their reasons in a public PR? And how much is "a lot?" For a guy who says other people's speculation means nothing if they don't work for them you sure do a lot yourself wouldn't you agree.

I'm sure Netflix had a lot of good reasons, not the least of which is that the entire industry is getting behind one format at the moment to move things forward. You told me to go back to business school but I'm sure there are more MBA's sitting on the board at Netflix than the entire subforum and they know what's best for Netflix than any of us do.

Anyways Maxpower already confirmed there was no payout in the HDTV Software Forum so you can stop speculating about any payoffs because there weren't any. He's the most credible HDM insider posting here at the moment.

Why? Why would they have to explain all of their reasons in a public PR? And how much is "a lot?" For a guy who says other people's speculation means nothing if they don't work for them you sure do a lot yourself wouldn't you agree.

I'm sure Netflix had a lot of good reasons, not the least of which is that the entire industry is getting behind one format at the moment to move things forward. You told me to go back to business school but I'm sure there are more MBA's sitting on the board at Netflix than the entire subforum and they know what's best for Netflix than any of us do.

Anyways Maxpower already confirmed there was no payout in the HDTV Software Forum so you can stop speculating about any payoffs because there weren't any. He's the most credible HDM insider posting here at the moment.

Please show me where I'm speculating in my above post. I never gave a reason why because I don't know what it is yet you are trying to answer for me. Unbelieveable!

Please show me where I'm speculating in my above post. I never gave a reason why because I don't know what it is yet you are trying to answer for me. Unbelieveable!

Well you said that they have NOTHING to lose by renting HD DVD's. That's pure speculation. They obviously had something to lose otherwise why did they dump HD DVD?

NF had nothing to lose by renting HD DVD's. Nothing! They have no vested interest and if most peoples queues said long wait and very long wait for HD DVD's only proves the demand was there but for some reason all of a sudden they felt they didn't need that money any more. So when you talk about good business decisions, this one does not come anywhere near it!

Pure speculation on my part, but perhaps they received an incentive to stop support? Another reason could be disc sabotage and they got tired of replacing discs, though I personally never had problems with my hd dvd rentals. I've heard others complaining on these forums though.

Is there email support? I don't feel like calling so I just wanted to write an email, but I can't seem to find it.

Well you said that they have NOTHING to lose by renting HD DVD's. That's pure speculation. They obviously had something to lose otherwise why did they dump HD DVD?

Were people renting them? Were they making money on each subsciber? Whats the difference between renting SD, HD and Blu rays? Are they not all the same size discs. Has BB stopped renting HD DVD's for the reason you keep stating? Theres nothing to back your claim up so why keep trying to convince me otherwise? Again when you look at the whole picture, they had nothing to lose by keep renting HD DVD's because they were not losing money on them or they would have said so and if your in business and there is a demand and your making a profit on a item, then that is the bottom line!

Were people renting them? Were they making money on each subsciber?

I don't know. Do you?

Has BB stopped renting HD DVD's for the reason you keep stating? Theres nothing to back your claim up so why keep trying to convince me otherwise?

What are you talking about. I never made a claim other than Netflix knows what's best for Netflix and that we don't know their reasons. I threw out some added speculation of a POSSIBLE reason (of many) but did so just to show that it could be anything and that we DON'T know. I never tried to convince you have anything other than to admit that you don't work at Netflix and therefore have no credibility to say they were stupid for dropping HD DVD and were making money on each subscriber. You are the one saying they had nothing to lose by renting HD DVD's. Can you prove this or at least offer a credible explanation on why they dropped something they have nothing to lose renting? I mean did they just decide that Monday was opposite day for the company?

Coming from a neutral guy...

Personally I think this is a real Richard move on Netflix's part. They are a RENTAL service. Choosing to ignore a whole segment of renters seems nuts to me. Going Blu only is a dumb as going HD only. Hey...why not stop renting SDDVD's altogether to try to get the whole world to go HD?

If that sounds dumb to you then choosing to push one HD format over the other should also sound dumb.

WHY does NF care who rents what? AFAIK they should bulk up on VHS tapes also for all of the people who never went DVD! It's too bad they're too heavy to ship profitably.

People like choices...VHS, DVD, HDDVD and Blu-Ray are all choices. I don't see how giving the bird to owners of any format helps them. It's not like there's only 2000 HD players out there. There are 100's of thousands. These people rent movies...right?

I did get one HDDVD that was scratched enough to cause it to skip in one place...once. But just recently I got 2 Blu's in a row w/ a 1/2 in crack on the end. The CS @ Netflix even told me that happens more w/ their Blu stock than the HD stock.

Whatever...WTF do I know about anything. It just seems like it's nuts for a RENTAL service to get involved in the politics of this mess. Just rent ALL disks and STFU. :D

One of the bests posts of the thread. Couldn't of said it better myself. F NetFlix..:mad:

[QUOTE=TheLoveone;13109829]I don't know. Do you?



What are you talking about. I never made a claim other than Netflix knows what's best for Netflix and that we don't know their reasons. I threw out some added speculation of a POSSIBLE reason (of many) but did so just to show that it could be anything and that we DON'T know. I never tried to convince you have anything other than to admit that you don't work at Netflix and therefore have no credibility to say they were stupid for dropping HD DVD and were making money on each subscriber. You are the one saying they had nothing to lose by renting HD DVD's. Can you prove this or at least offer a credible explanation on why they dropped something they have nothing to lose renting? I mean did they just decide that Monday was opposite day for the company?[/QUOTE

Your the one that has been doing a pretty good job of trying to answer for them. Again go read the statement! If you can prove they were losing money renting HD DVD's I'll stand corrected. If not, I will take it at face value that they weren't. End of story.

Let's face it, NF is in business to make a profit and for whatever reasons as stupid as it may seem to those of us losing out that they stand to make more profit by dropping hddvd. So the really painful possibility is that BB, our other main rental source, may also see less overall profit and also dump hddvd, unless they become a charitible non-profit organization and pigs fly!

Your the one that has been doing a pretty good job of trying to answer for them. Again go read the statement! If you can prove they were losing money renting HD DVD's I'll stand corrected. If not, I will take it at face value that they weren't. End of story.


No you see it is the person that makes the claims that has to provide proof, not the person who asks for proof to provide it. I didn't make the claim that Netflix was or was not losing money on subscribers, either way, I just said it doesn't make much sense for them to drop something they have nothing to lose keeping and are making a good buck at. You were the one who said they had nothing to lose renting HD DVD and that they were making money on each subscriber, so you are the one that has to provide proof of that.

This is a very amusing thread...so many people hate NetFlix and seem to think this is an evil, political decision. Maybe there is more to the decision than is apparent, but I read the press release and just assumed that NF decided that they could no longer support HD DVDs because they were (or would) lose money doing so. I give them credit for trying to do so and am sorry that the experiment failed.

My Proof is in their statement that you refuse to acknowledge. I have had enough of your blu troll B/s. Take it eleswhere!

This is a very amusing thread...so many people hate NetFlix and seem to think this is an evil, political decision. Maybe there is more to the decision than is apparent, but I read the press release and just assumed that NF decided that they could no longer support HD DVDs because they were (or would) lose money doing so. I give them credit for trying to do so and am sorry that the experiment failed.

Now thats what you would think when a company makes a decision but they don't come right out and say so and you have to ASSUME thats what it means and that is the problem.

Regardless of format preference, this is a loss for the consumer. Since many movies will remain available only in HD DVD for a good chunk of 2008 and well into 2009, this forces the current and/or potential HD subscriber into an unnecessary poor choice of either renting the SD equivalent, or having to purchase the disc.

It'd be one thing if the BD equivalents were going to be available now or soon, but they are not.

As movie-buffs, this is an outrageous decision.

Since they already have our $, it's unlikely Netflix cares.

Lodaf,

You really need to calm down, read the announcement and think a bit before those rapid fire posts.

Based on their announcement, which i quoted below for you, Netflix is not pulling all HD DVD off the shelf instantly tomorrow, so your posts make no sense. They are phasing out HDDVD, because it's evident blu-ray will be the hd format of choice in the near future. So netflix is protecting themselves and stopped investing in what they believed to be a losing format. This makes perfect sense for a business to do.

Again they are not stop renting hddvd's tomorrow! Netflix is just not paying money to buy any new hddvd or replacing the damaged disc. They are letting the existing library of hddvd to be rented until year end, which is probably the time they expect the existing inventory to shrunk (from normal rental damage / lost etc..) to a size no longer realistic to continue be rented.

I dont see what is so illogical about their decision. They see a losing format, decided to stop invest further in the format, then let the customer know, and let the normal wear&tear to phase out the existing library of hddvd with plenty of time - 1 year.

I dont know how else to explain this to you anymore clearer. Hope you get it now.

PS: Also not stating publically the reason to phase out hddvd (hddvd lost the war, hddvd is fragile etc..), is professional courtesy. A company usually does not bad mouth another company publically, especially on such sensitive subject, it's just unprofessional. That's how most of corporate america works...



Dear XXXXX,

You're receiving this e-mail because you have asked to receive high-definition movies in the HD DVD format. As you may have heard, most of the major movie studios have recently decided to release their high-definition movies exclusively in the Blu-ray format. In order to provide the best selection of high-definition titles for our members, we have decided to go exclusively with Blu-ray as well.

While we will continue to make our current selection of HD DVD titles available to you for the next several months, we will not be adding additional HD DVD titles or reordering replacements.

Toward the end of February, HD DVDs in your Saved Queue will automatically be changed to standard definition DVDs. Then toward the end of this year, all HD DVDs in your Queue will be changed to standard definition DVDs. Don't worry, we will contact you before this happens.

You can click here to change your format preferences.

We're sorry for any inconvenience. If you have any questions or need further assistance, please call us at 1 (888) 638-3549.

-The Netflix Team

Looks like Netflix made the right decision:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13113291#post13113291

Lodaf,

You really need to calm down, read the announcement and think a bit before those rapid fire posts.

Based on their announcement, which i quoted below for you, Netflix is not pulling all HD DVD off the shelf instantly tomorrow, so your posts make no sense. They are phasing out HDDVD, because it's evident blu-ray will be the hd format of choice in the near future. So netflix is protecting themselves and stopped investing in what they believed to be a losing format. This makes perfect sense for a business to do.

Again they are not stop renting hddvd's tomorrow! Netflix is just not paying money to buy any new hddvd or replacing the damaged disc. They are letting the existing library of hddvd to be rented until year end, which is probably the time they expect the existing inventory to shrunk (from normal rental damage / lost etc..) to a size no longer realistic to continue be rented.

I dont see what is so illogical about their decision. They see a losing format, decided to stop invest further in the format, then let the customer know, and let the normal wear&tear to phase out the existing library of hddvd with plenty of time - 1 year.

I dont know how else to explain this to you anymore clearer. Hope you get it now.

PS: Also not stating publically the reason to phase out hddvd (hddvd lost the war, hddvd is fragile etc..), is professional courtesy. A company usually does not bad mouth another company publically, especially on such sensitive subject, it's just unprofessional. That's how most of corporate america works...

Again. WHAT IS THEIR INVESTMENT IN HD DVD"S? Their a Freakin Rental CO.
If they ordered 1000's of them and they were just sitting there with no demand is one thing, but that is far from the case. Just look at most peoples queues for HD DVD, including my own were always long wait and very long wait. That Tells me something, I don't know about you. And you keep saying it is a losing format which I don't agree, but even if it is who says you still can't make a profit from it. The decision especially now with all those new HD DVD owners out there after the recent price cuts, makes absolutely no sense. When DVD"s overtook VHS , did they take VHS off the shelves right away and not buy anymore of them, No, why, because there was still a demand for them and STILL MORE MONEY TO BE MADE by keeping them on as an option. This is no different and if anything the demand to rent HD DVD's is going up, not the other way around. And as always you adjust your buying practices according to flow and demand regardless of format, whether its SD HD DVD or Blu Ray, thats why they hire people to perform those very duties. If they don't have competent people doing this, it's not HD DVD"s fault but their own.

Lodef, they have to pay for the disks, and the right to rent them out. I'm mad about it to, but I can't blame them for a good business decision. They are a profit company, as said before, and unfortunately it's best to take the side that seems to be winning. In this case, Blu-Ray.

Lodef, they have to pay for the disks, and the right to rent them out. I'm mad about it to, but I can't blame them for a good business decision. They are a profit company, as said before, and unfortunately it's best to take the side that seems to be winning. In this case, Blu-Ray.

And AGAIN how does that translate in them still not being able to make a profit? :rolleyes:

Lodef, they have to pay for the disks, and the right to rent them out. I'm mad about it to, but I can't blame them for a good business decision. They are a profit company, as said before, and unfortunately it's best to take the side that seems to be winning. In this case, Blu-Ray.

And AGAIN how does that translate in them still not being able to make a profit? :rolleyes:

The cost of buying HD-DVDs and the license to rent them out is a lot of money. Rental places (online and brick/mortar) can't just pay retail prices for these movies and rent them out for a profit, they have to go through channels in order to get these movies. Same goes for Blu-ray and the BDA. They are also limited to the number of copies they are allowed to have for rental.

Once again, the more fragile surface of the HD-DVD discs is a major disadvantage when it comes to renting. You can't tell me I'm lying about this and call me a 'bluboy' when you look through this thread and see many hardcore HD-DVD supporters have a problem with these discs not playing due to this problem. It's not Netflix's fault idiots don't handle discs with care (goes for all discs including DVD). And if this does happen, its expensive for them to replace.

You say HD-DVD discs must be VERY popular for rentals since you have long wait times for them. Maybe its a long wait time because they have to replace damaged discs and then send them out again to the person who complained about it not working, which takes time. I'm not saying it is the reason, but it's a possibility. You're saying long wait times means HD-DVD rentals HAS to mean it's profitable, which may not be the case.

If Blu-ray have discs that don't work, it most likely would not be a disc problem. Blu-ray has more problems on the hardware side of things (damn Samsung), but this would not be Netflix's problem. At the end of the day, Netflix is a company and companies care about profits. If Netflix thought that continuing HD-DVD rentals for them would give them more profits in the future, they would have continued. But they didn't, so they must believe that it would be more profitable to go with this decision.

In my queue, it was BDs that were on long waits while I got nearly every HD DVD I wanted the next day.

Anyway, I see no one's been able to dispute my point. Hopefully BD equivalents of current and near-term HD DVD exclusives will be accelerated. Otherwise, Netflix subscribers are stuck with low-def rentals.

The cost of buying HD-DVDs and the license to rent them out is a lot of money. Rental places (online and brick/mortar) can't just pay retail prices for these movies and rent them out for a profit, they have to go through channels in order to get these movies. Same goes for Blu-ray and the BDA. They are also limited to the number of copies they are allowed to have for rental.

Once again, the more fragile surface of the HD-DVD discs is a major disadvantage when it comes to renting. You can't tell me I'm lying about this and call me a 'bluboy' when you look through this thread and see many hardcore HD-DVD supporters have a problem with these discs not playing due to this problem. It's not Netflix's fault idiots don't handle discs with care (goes for all discs including DVD). And if this does happen, its expensive for them to replace.

You say HD-DVD discs must be VERY popular for rentals since you have long wait times for them. Maybe its a long wait time because they have to replace damaged discs and then send them out again to the person who complained about it not working, which takes time. I'm not saying it is the reason, but it's a possibility. You're saying long wait times means HD-DVD rentals HAS to mean it's profitable, which may not be the case.

If Blu-ray have discs that don't work, it most likely would not be a disc problem. Blu-ray has more problems on the hardware side of things (damn Samsung), but this would not be Netflix's problem. At the end of the day, Netflix is a company and companies care about profits. If Netflix thought that continuing HD-DVD rentals for them would give them more profits in the future, they would have continued. But they didn't, so they must believe that it would be more profitable to go with this decision.

Talking in circles won't make it anymore factual. Sorry!

I've come to the realization that if NetFlix was indeed not replacing scratched disks with new ones, then yes its time to discontinue HD DVD. I had yet another one fail to play tonight, flipped it over and played the SD side perfectly. Whats the use to continue renting these things if they aren't going to work? If they can't afford to keep replacing the disks, then so be it, go with one format and keep them refreshed. This coming from a strong supporter of HD DVD. Time to move on.

I've come to the realization that if NetFlix was indeed not replacing scratched disks with new ones, then yes its time to discontinue HD DVD. I had yet another one fail to play tonight, flipped it over and played the SD side perfectly. Whats the use to continue renting these things if they aren't going to work? If they can't afford to keep replacing the disks, then so be it, go with one format and keep them refreshed. This coming from a strong supporter of HD DVD. Time to move on.

Agreed. It gets old having this happen, and is a waste of a rental when it does.

Talking in circles won't make it anymore factual. Sorry!

I've come to the realization that if NetFlix was indeed not replacing scratched disks with new ones, then yes its time to discontinue HD DVD. I had yet another one fail to play tonight, flipped it over and played the SD side perfectly. Whats the use to continue renting these things if they aren't going to work? If they can't afford to keep replacing the disks, then so be it, go with one format and keep them refreshed. This coming from a strong supporter of HD DVD. Time to move on.

Agreed. It gets old having this happen, and is a waste of a rental when it does.

Lodef, these are the problems that are happening... are you not seeing it? Maybe it's not happening to you, but it is for a lot of people. It's not worth it to replace all the time or for angry customers due to this problem. So you claiming that Netflix makes profit off of HD-DVD is factual? I'm just trying to explain to you that there are other scenarios possible rather than what you have stated.

Lodef, these are the problems that are happening... are you not seeing it? Maybe it's not happening to you, but it is for a lot of people. It's not worth it to replace all the time or for angry customers due to this problem. So you claiming that Netflix makes profit off of HD-DVD is factual? I'm just trying to explain to you that there are other scenarios possible rather than what you have stated.

So thats the reason because you and others are convinced it is even though NF never said it was, I see. You must be right then, no sense in furthur debate.

So thats the reason because you and others are convinced it is even though NF never said it was, I see. You must be right then, no sense in furthur debate.

I'm saying it's a POSSIBLE reason. You are suggesting no other possible scenarios other than Netflix was making profits with HD-DVD but just suddenly decided to throw it all away for no reason. Of course they have a reason for doing it and they believe it'll be best for their company?

Did they make a mistake? Maybe, but they did it because they had reasons for doing it that neither you or I know about. They didn't just wake up one day and say 'you know what let's just stop supporting HD-DVD'. It was a business decision due to factors they are not announcing to the public.

Let me ask you. How do you know they were making profit off of HD-DVD rentals? or by supporting 2 formats that are a small portion of the market?

And AGAIN how does that translate in them still not being able to make a profit? :rolleyes:

Ok let me try 1 last time.

1) It's not about "able to make a profit", it's about making the best business decision to make the MAX profit.

2) To answer your question, yes i am sure there is high demand for HDDVD rental right now, but that's irrelevant. Lets assume it cost $5 to buy a HDDVD disc(mostly license fee, etc..), netflix expects the HDDVD to be around and used for 5 years on average (their expectation is probably much longer in reality). But with the recent development, netflix realized HDDVD will be phased out say in 2 years and noone would rent them anymore. So their $5 investment now only buys them 2 years vs 5 years in value.

Therefore they realized they are wasting money buying HDDVD that are bad long term investment.

Same as if you buy a toaster for 50 bucks, you expect to use it for a few years. Now if the power company were to tell you in 3 months the toaster's power voltage will no longer be supported. Guess what? you probably wont pay $50 bucks to buy that particular toaster, even though you can use it now to make delicious toast...

DO YOU GET IT NOW? :confused:

Has anyone else here had bad luck with getting bad copies of HD-DVD titles from Netflix? I've only rented 4-5 so far, but only 1 has played without glitches. I had FOUR!!! big pauses/freezes playing The Bourne Ultimatum last night. I've been renting DVDs from them since 1999 and have only had a handful of bad discs, and the only bad Blu-ray I received was cracked in shipment. I didn't think HD-DVDs would be any more fragile than regular DVDs.

And AGAIN how does that translate in them still not being able to make a profit? :rolleyes:

Talking in circles won't make it anymore factual. Sorry!


I been following this discussion and you indicate your position on profitablity is fact based. I don't have enough information to estimate net gain or loss for NF to rent HDDVD, but would assume you do based on your position. How about running through something like:

Costs:
Licensing costs for every title in HD DVD library .
Disk Purchase cost for all titles in inventory
Damaged Inventory replacement disk costs
Outgoing and Incoming Processing and Postage
storage of HD DVD inventory costs

Income:
number of subscribers renting HD DVD
ratioed (HD DVD vs other) amount of subscribers fee applicable to HD DVD rentals


Profitability = Income - Costs

To me this would move this debate to the factual realm.

Has anyone else here had bad luck with getting bad copies of HD-DVD titles from Netflix? I've only rented 4-5 so far, but only 1 has played without glitches. I had FOUR!!! big pauses/freezes playing The Bourne Ultimatum last night. I've been renting DVDs from them since 1999 and have only had a handful of bad discs, and the only bad Blu-ray I received was cracked in shipment. I didn't think HD-DVDs would be any more fragile than regular DVDs.

Not a single one in 12 months of membership. Can't say about BD since those were always unavailable.

I've rented at least 80 HD DVDs from Netflix since 2006, and never had a problem playing any of them. But I certainly won't have any problems in the future either since after 9+ years they lost me as a customer. Even if they gave me the service free for a year I wouldn't come back.

Like I said no sense in furthur debate guys, your all right!

I had ONE disk have a problem, and that's out of 10 rentals.

I've rented at least 80 HD DVDs from Netflix since 2006, and never had a problem playing any of them. But I certainly won't have any problems in the future either since after 9+ years they lost me as a customer. Even if they gave me the service free for a year I wouldn't come back.

Thats impossible according to some people here. ;)

Why wouln't Netflix just say, we are losing money on HD-DVD and have decided to discontinue it. That would sound better to me than they telling me that they have a crystal ball and think Blu is the future.

Why wouln't Netflix just say, we are losing money on HD-DVD and have decided to discontinue it. That would sound better to me than they telling me that they have a crystal ball and think Blu is the future.


Because publicly held companies don't like to put out press releases that say "we are losing money" to satisfy the info needs of the smaller segment of a niche market. It's a sure way to make the stock drop.

I've rented at least 80 HD DVDs from Netflix since 2006, and never had a problem playing any of them. But I certainly won't have any problems in the future either since after 9+ years they lost me as a customer. Even if they gave me the service free for a year I wouldn't come back.

Them grapes must be really sour!

I had ONE disk have a problem, and that's out of 10 rentals.
I've rented 29 without problems, but I believe luck is involved. Here's why. No one would say that HD-DVD is less resilient to scratching than DVD but going through my rental history, that's what I'm seeing. I went 17 DVD rentals before getting a defective disc. Before that I went 24 rentals before I got a defective one. Before that, 31 rentals with no defective discs.

This is excluding cracked/smashed discs which are actually more common for me than defective discs.

Why wouln't Netflix just say, we are losing money on HD-DVD and have decided to discontinue it. That would sound better to me than they telling me that they have a crystal ball and think Blu is the future.

Because NF doesn't know what their talking about, only people here do! ;)

Because NF doesn't know what their talking about, only people here do! ;)

why dont you just admit you are wrong and clueless, instead of continuing to post smartass comments while avoiding answering the replies to your original false claims.

Netflix no longer rents HD-DVD? This sucks:mad:

Oh, just great, I have the worst timing, I decided about a month ago to finally jump into the high def disc arena and got the XA2 and BD30. I rent only and order movies from NF without concern for which format it is in. Guess my XA2 is destined to be a doorstop along with my JVC DVHS. At least, with the dvhs format I knew it was only a stopgap until hi def dvd became available but I thought that both formats would continue at least for a couple more years!
Yup, just like my investing skills, buy high...sell low !!

why dont you just admit you are wrong and clueless, instead of continuing to post smartass comments while avoiding answering the replies to your original false claims.

Do you even rent Hd DVD's from them Mr. Know it all. I doubt it. Before you call people smartass, try looking in the mirror and how you purposely misspelled my moniker. You have yet to prove me wrong even with all your windbag responses. So stop thinking your right, because you still have not verified anything. hows that for ya! :rolleyes:

Lodef, stop making a complete fool of yourself and let it go...Seriously..:rolleyes:

Lodef, stop making a complete fool of yourself and let it go...Seriously..:rolleyes:

You First! :D

Scott in all seriousness, my ONLY claim was that I believed NF was still making a profit ( whether large or small) by renting HD DVD. I know other factors could go into making a decision but everything presented here could be true or might not be. Only people in the know at NF know these answers so what is posted here has as much validity as what I was claiming. For all I know we could all be right but some people get under my skin when they claim to know the reason and try to present that as fact. NF never said they were losing money selling HD DVD and thats what I based my claim on. Anyhow, it does not make a difference because they won't be renting them anyways so there is really no sense in continuing this dicussion but I wasn't making a fool of myself and I'm far from clueless and did not think those comments were called for just because I disagree. I hope that clears things up for ya.

Scott in all seriousness, my ONLY claim was that I believed NF was still making a profit ( whether large or small) by renting HD DVD. I know other factors could go into making a decision but everything presented here could be true or might not be. Only people in the know at NF know these answers so what is posted here has as much validity as what I was claiming. For all I know we could all be right but some people get under my skin when they claim to know the reason and try to present that as fact. NF never said they were losing money selling HD DVD and thats what I based my claim on. Anyhow, it does not make a difference because they won't be renting them anyways so there is really no sense in continuing this dicussion but I wasn't making a fool of myself and I'm far from clueless and did not think those comments were called for just because I disagree. I hope that clears things up for ya.

I hear what your saying, but like you said no one really knows what went behind NF's decision. The only thing we can all do is speculate. I was as upset as the next guy when I read the email. After a few days to think about it I've come to the conclusion that it's probably for the best. Like I posted earlier, a lot of these disks weren't being replaced and a lot of them didn't work due to scratches and such. Clearly NF knew they would lose subs by doing this, but thought it was the right business decision. If we owned a business we would make the same decision if we felt it was necessary. I felt like you were arguing just to argue, which is why I said what I said. No hard feelings.

After WEEKs of waiting for 2001 space oddesy to change from Long wait, it was FINALLY available and in my top slot this morning with 2 movies due to ship out... Then i get the email that Serpico and Thirteen are shipping for delivery tomorrow...

when i check my queue again, they friggin' skipped it and now its back to short wait status! I swear as soon as they drop HD DVD all together, those clowns are history!

Well today Becket HDDVD was substituted with the regular DVD.
I called Netflix and was told the substitution has begun, NO MORE HDDVD`s starting NOW. :(
Spartacus in HD did ship ,must have made it under the wire.
I Phoned BlockBuster and was told no decision has yet been reached to when to stop HDDVD.
Blockbuster Im coming home.

Well today Becket HDDVD was substituted with the regular DVD.
I called Netflix and was told the substitution has begun, NO MORE HDDVD`s starting NOW. :(
Spartacus in HD did ship ,must have made it under the wire.
I Phoned BlockBuster and was told no decision has yet been reached to when to stop HDDVD.
Blockbuster Im coming home.

So let me get this straight the titles are still listed as HD DVD in your queue when they ship but Netflix substitutes it with the SDVD and you don't know until it arrives? Thats seems pretty lame to me. If they're going to stop shipping their existing HD DVD inventory then they should just remove the option from our queues altogether.

It was listed as HDDVD yesterday in my que.When it moved to shipped this morning it displayed DVD. I thought i made a mistake since it was gone from the cue,so i called ,that's when i was told,no mistakes Netflix will just substitute your HDDVD for DVD Starting Today,Even if its listed as a HDDVD in your que.

Man that sucks. They're acting like all their existing HD DVDs are just being thrown out rather than continuing to ship what they have in inventory. Makes no sense to me. :confused:

After WEEKs of waiting for 2001 space oddesy to change from Long wait, it was FINALLY available and in my top slot this morning with 2 movies due to ship out... Then i get the email that Serpico and Thirteen are shipping for delivery tomorrow...
I know how frustrating this can be...I go ape when it happens to me - and I've seen it happen once or twice a year with SD disks.

But it is easy to understand how it could happen. They get the DVDs back, and so increment the 'available' counter, and you see it is available on your list. Then they start preparing these available disks for shipping, and discover one is broken or so badly scratched it will not play. So they ship the ones that are playable and put the people who were on the 'available' list on the 'short wait' list.

The good news is that you're probable at the top of the list now and should get the next available disk. I just hope, for your sake, that it is the HD DVD after you've been waiting all this time. I stopped renting for HD DVDs from NetFlix because none of them play on my machine unless I'm lucky enough to be the first to play the disk.

It was listed as HDDVD yesterday in my que.When it moved to shipped this morning it displayed DVD. I thought i made a mistake since it was gone from the cue,so i called ,that's when i was told,no mistakes Netflix will just substitute your HDDVD for DVD Starting Today,Even if its listed as a HDDVD in your que.
They tell me that they shipped me :Wyatt Earp: Special Edition(HD DVD). Lol, I thought I'd removed all my HD DVDs from the queue 'cause none of them play. I actually hope they sent the SD DVD...

Edit: Perhaps mine just slipped under the wire. It seems to have shipped from another location and that often means that it was scheduled for shipping a day or two previously

It was listed as HDDVD yesterday in my que.When it moved to shipped this morning it displayed DVD. I thought i made a mistake since it was gone from the cue,so i called ,that's when i was told,no mistakes Netflix will just substitute your HDDVD for DVD Starting Today,Even if its listed as a HDDVD in your que.

At least they don't try to sell you a Blu-ray player.

I got Black Snake Moan from BB yesterday. That was the 30th consecutive HD-DVD I've gotten through the mail with no playback problems.

Hmmmm.... My Netflix shows shipping Searchers and Blazing Saddles HD DVDs today. I have four other HD DVDs in my list and still showing HD DVD. If I get the SD version of Blazing Saddles I will be rather ticked off as I already own 2 SD versions. We shall see what happens.

I was shipped the HD DVD version of Fearless just last week so I'd expect if it says "HD DVD" in my queue and then its later listed as "shipped" I'd be getting the HD DVD version. If this doesn't happen and I get a SDVD in place of whatever title is being shipped I guess I'll be removing all my HD DVD titles from my queue. :(

I hate to say it but after reading these posts if your still dealing with NF for HD DVD's, your doing so at your own risk!