Hi. Noob here. I've lurked and searched, but this is my first post. Pls frgive me if I missed a thread that addresses this. My cable co is Bright House in Clearwater, FL, and we have digital cable going into all 3 bedrooms and the living room. BTW, landlord works 4 BH as an installer.
I just got a Samsung LNT375H w/ ATSC/NTSC/QAM tuners, and I like to time shift a lot. So, I wanted to split the digital cable coming into my room 3 ways, 2 going into Bright House DVR's, and 1 going straight into my TV.
I had one of the standard cable splitters, with 1 going into a regular DVR and 1 going to the TV. The DVR and cable reception seemed pretty good, but, again, I'm brand new to this and used to a 10 yr old 25" Sanyo. So my roommate picked up a second HD DVR for me, and I picked up a Digital 4-way splitter at Home Depot to add the extra cable.

The splitter package says it is a GE Ultra Prograde Digital 4 way splitter, part # AV22694. I've searched for ratings online, and can't find any. Plus, the splitter I bought doesn't look like the GE model. It looks like part # RCA DT4SP. There weren't any ratings on these, either. Specs are 5Mhz-1Ghz. I've found a little info in these forums about signal loss, and making sure the splitter is bi-directional. I didn't see anything about this splitter being bi-directional on the package. Is it a POS, and am I going about this the wrong way? I'm trying to get a clue before I pull everything away from the wall, and start rewiring the whole shebang, and beating my head against the wall.

BTW, I talked to my roommate/landlord about it, and he doesn't even think I need the high end splitter, just 2 regular cable splitters. Ex; Cable > splitter > TV and 2nd splitter > 2 DVR's.

Thoughts???

A four way splitter will lose about 7 db. That means if you start out with a relative signal strength of 100, each device will be at 93.

If you use two, two-way splitters, the first two devices will be at 96.5 strength (3.5 db loss for two-way splitters). Putting another splitter on that second leg which is originally at 96.5 strength will bring it down to 93.

So basically, two, two-way splitters is what you want, assuming this numbers are correct. This will give one device more signal strength than with your four-way splitter.

Bestbuy sells some good two-way splitters for like $5. I usually don't buy from them (overpriced) but it might be worth it here. Can you get them from the cable company? Might even be a better deal..

A 3 way splitter would be best (unbalanced)...Ask your roomate/landlord as this is what he does for a living and should GIVE you a BH splitter...buy the guy a beer and he'll hook it all up correctly for you...

A 3 way splitter would be best (unbalanced)

Right, I can't believe I forgot to mention that. Spent so much time looking up those db loss numbers. :)

Thanks, guys. I've seen some posts stating that a signal loss of even 3.5 db is a bad thing. Is there any appreciable (visually perceivable,) difference? In addition, is it better to go with the "high end Digital" splitters vs the regular ones?

Thanks, guys. I've seen some posts stating that a signal loss of even 3.5 db is a bad thing. Is there any appreciable (visually perceivable,) difference? In addition, is it better to go with the "high end Digital" splitters vs the regular ones?

How the signal loss affects you all depends on how strong the signal is to begin with. If you have a weak signal to start out with, your analog channels with look worse and you might start seeing dropouts on digital channels.

I'd just get the three-way splitter from the cable company and hook it up. Do digital channels still work? Then you're fine. If you have analog channels, do a quick comparison with and without the splitter.

Don't waste money on expensive splitters unless you have problems with the cheaper ones. If you do have problems with the cheaper ones, it's probably better to have your friend, the cable guy, deal with the problem before the splitter.. with an outside amplifier or something like that.

I replied to the first post, only. The other 2 weren't there when I started. Is an "unbalanced" triple splitter the regular type, because I searched for and couldn't find a High end digital triple splitter.

Also, roommate doesn't want to touch it.

Got it. Will try cheapie triple splitter first. Thanks again.

I replied to the first post, only. The other 2 weren't there when I started. Is an "unbalanced" triple splitter the regular type, because I searched for and couldn't find a High end digital triple splitter.

Also, roommate doesn't want to touch it.
Unbalanced 3 way is 3.5 loss on one leg, the other two legs are a 7db loss....If the roomate won't touch it, at the least he should give you a splitter...Digital is nothing...as long as the splitter is 5MHz-1000MHz they are all the same...and that is the one you want...5MHz to 1000MHz... :)

Unbalanced 3 way is 3.5 loss on one leg, the other two legs are a 7db loss....If the roomate won't touch it, at the least he should give you a splitter...Digital is nothing...as long as the splitter is 5MHz-1000MHz they are all the same...and that is the one you want...5MHz to 1000MHz... :)
Not entirely correct. Digital splitters (made by major manufacturers) have capacitor coupling (low intermod), higher return loss (a good thing), and higher port-to-port isolation, especially in the return path.

If it's not a major manufacturer, they probably just put "Digital" on the label as a selling point.

You are correct...after re-reading my post I did generalize too much...a cheap no name (Home Depot type) splitter is not the same as Regal or Tru-Spec as examples...

I am using a 6-way splitter, but only 4 of the six are actually in use would I have less signal loss if I just used a 4-way splitter?

Yes.

Bump.

I have Comcast and currently run my cable --> DVR --> TV. Unbelievably, I sometimes want to watch three shows at once. DVR records two, and I wanted to split the Cable signal to the DVR and to the COAX in on my HDTV direct. I tried this with a cheap splitter, but the DVR couldn't read the signal, and my TV direct was fuzzy like a bad antenna.

Do I need to get a digital-specific splitter? Do I need to get an amplifier or a booster?

Thanks.

Is the splitter rated to pass 5MHz to 1 GHz (1000 MHz)?
Make sure it's bi-directional.
Make sure you use "good" coax cables (RG6).
Stay away from "packaged" coax cables... especially ones with "push on" type connectors.

Actually, I have two splitters that both were poor. The cables seem to be fine. But the splitters I have are 5 to 1000 and another was 5-25000. Both degraded the signal considerably.

Before you go to expense and/or spin your wheels, why not call your cable provider to come out and check/adjust levels coming into your home.

One "two-way" splitter should not drastically reduce your signal(s), unless the signal "into" your home is borderline/marginal.

OTOH... you could just have two bad splitters/cables/connectors. ;)

Not entirely correct. Digital splitters (made by major manufacturers) have capacitor coupling (low intermod), higher return loss (a good thing), and higher port-to-port isolation, especially in the return path.
Do you know anymore details on that? Recently I was looking at amps and splitters, and I never saw anything about a "digital splitter". (Cont'd in next post). ;)
Thanks.

To the OP: I had Cox send a cable guy out the other day to check and make sure my incoming line had enough signal and was clean, etc. He said the incoming line was +15db.

He replaced one splitter than was old or bad, that cleaned things up a bit. But there was still some snow or grainy like appearance on every channel. He noticed there were TWO lines coming into the house, and said the 2nd line was "bad". I told him TCI or Cablevision did that 15+ years ago before they changed to Cox, due to a low signal into the house.

I checked out all the lines better out back, in the attic, and house, and I found out the 3-way splitter out back (-7.5db, -7.5db, -3.5db) wasn't even needed for every TV in the house. So I removed it, and that cleaned up signal even more. I later found out that the cable feed to my former office (once a carport, now enclosed) no longer had cable, no big deal now, that can always be split if needed.

Before I did all that, I researched amps and gotthis one (http://www.amazon.com/PCT-BI-DIRECTIONAL-AMPLIFIER-BOOSTER-PASSIVE/dp/B000F28DP2/). Cox uses that PCT amp (and other models of PCT) as some of their own amps.

I found out that analog cable TV can operate between -15db thru +15db levels, but also found out that cable HDTV works best around 0db thru +5db. With my "amp-less" setup, I was getting about 0db at each TV, so I thought after getting the amp (15db boost), that would be too high of a level. But if it was, I could always get an attenuator.

While the amp was en route, I also found out that so called "bad" line coming in, was perfectly ok. I hooked it up to the master bedroom and when my other splitters arrive I'll be splitting that line to go to the enclosed carport. So that left the original main line going straight into the attic (where it goes into a new 4-way splitter).

I hooked up the amp a few days ago, and to my surprise it made every single channel absolutely perfect. No more snow or grainy appearance, perfectly clean and clear. Apparently, I can only guess that my incoming line was not +15db as he said. Because 22.5db at each TV should have been a bit of an overload for the STB's.

When the newest order of splitters and cables arrives, I'll be splitting the amp's output between the main line and master BR line (giving +12.5db boost on each line), and the master BR line output will be split to accommodate the feed into the enclosed carport.

When checking out the lines, I realized some were old RG59. If you find any of those, they should be replaced with dual-shielded RG6. Quad-shield has a higher db loss, but it's not that much though. I think it's only about a few tenths of a db per 100'. But there's a pretty large loss when using RG59 cable.

I got various lengths of some "high performance home theater" Stellar Labs RG6 dual-shielded cable (http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/24-8926) to replace all the cable in the attic (main line in, and lines to the TV's or STB's. That comes in 50', 25', 12' and 9'. I was pretty impressed by its quality. You can enlarge the image there and see how even the center conductor is gold plated.

I also got some 3' lengths of quad-shielded RG6 cable (http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/33-4200) to use behind TV's and STB's around all the other cabling and power cords, and for outside use for the amp.

Now as for the splitters, as I mentioned in my last post, I didn't see any designated as "digital". I got some 5-1000mhz splitters with extra RF/EMI shielding (http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/33-2130) since I'm going to have to use one of them behind my TV for PiP. I checked the splitters that Cox uses, and they don't say anything specific on them about "digital" usage.

If need any of these things, PM me because I used some coupon codes that for one, got me the Stellar Labs 50' cable for only $7.59.

Now as for the splitters, as I mentioned in my last post, I didn't see any designated as "digital". I got some 5-1000mhz splitters with extra RF/EMI shielding (http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/33-2130) since I'm going to have to use one of them behind my TV for PiP. I checked the splitters that Cox uses, and they don't say anything specific on them about "digital" usage.

If need any of these things, PM me because I used some coupon codes that for one, got me the Stellar Labs 50' cable for only $7.59.
Hard to say about that splitter as it isn't made anymore, which means that specs aren't readily available. Just because it says 5-1000MHz doesn't automatically mean that it has really good specs. IF I remember correctly, DSG was PicoMacom's lower-end line of splitters (not the lowest end, just lower-end).

The ones used by cable systems are made by major CATV industry manufacturers and are Q.C.d by various systems before being deployed into their system. Even though the passives do not have Digital stamped on them, it is a guarantee that they are using what they need for their system.

Hard to say about that splitter as it isn't made anymore, which means that specs aren't readily available. Just because it says 5-1000MHz doesn't automatically mean that it has really good specs. IF I remember correctly, DSG was PicoMacom's lower-end line of splitters (not the lowest end, just lower-end).

The ones used by cable systems are made by major CATV industry manufacturers and are Q.C.d by various systems before being deployed into their system. Even though the passives do not have Digital stamped on them, it is a guarantee that they are using what they need for their system.
It's a Tru-Spec splitter. (I don't know if that's the same as Picomacom or not). Before I ordered them, I tried searching for DSG-2100 and couldn't find anymore info than was already listed. I couldn't even find a True-Spec website.

I of course wasn't just relying on the "5-1000mhz", it said much more than that, did you read it?

For use in applications where additional shielding is needed
100dB case design exceeds FCC requirements for RF shielding
25% more zinc content than standard splitters
Case thickness increased by 50% to obtain very good RFI performance
Mounting tabs with screws and grounding block
5MHz~1000MHz frequency response

Which sounded pretty good to me. I didn't see any other splitters with those kind of features.

If they are not "digital", will they not work at all, or give a bad picture?

Thanks.

They may or may not work fine. TruSpec is Pico Macom. Yes, I did read that description.


These splitters (http://www.cencom94.com/gpage.html) have their specs listed. Look for "Specifications" at the end on the description and click on it. That will give you an idea of what to look for.

These splitters (http://www.cencom94.com/gpage.html) have their specs listed. Look for "Specifications" at the end on the description and click on it. That will give you an idea of what to look for.
Thanks for the info. Yeah I can see how all those specs are listed. I guess all I can do is try these DSG-2100 splitters and see what happens. The problem is I don't know what kind of symptoms to look for if they are not suited for digital & HDTV CATV.

Thanks for the info. Yeah I can see how all those specs are listed. I guess all I can do is try these DSG-2100 splitters and see what happens. The problem is I don't know what kind of symptoms to look for if they are not suited for digital & HDTV CATV.
Really, the main problem to look for would be if everything doesn't work right. Most channels work fine while some pixelate, or other things along those lines.

Hey Ed, I was searching for more info on this and I found a post of yours at another forum (MikeHolt forums), "The splitters used in the CATV industry have blocking capacitors. The capacitors help prevent voltage buildup and the ensuing magnetism of the ferrites."

That much I figured, but what I don't understand is that the same thing is "DC pass" or "power pass"? If a CATV amp is being used, don't the splitters have to pass power, and have to be a "power pass" splitter? And does that mean they should not have the blocking caps? Or are the blocking caps only for return loss?

Hey Ed, I was searching for more info on this and I found a post of yours at another forum (MikeHolt forums), "The splitters used in the CATV industry have blocking capacitors. The capacitors help prevent voltage buildup and the ensuing magnetism of the ferrites."

That much I figured, but what I don't understand is that the same thing is "DC pass" or "power pass"? If a CATV amp is being used, don't the splitters have to pass power, and have to be a "power pass" splitter? And does that mean they should not have the blocking caps? Or are the blocking caps only for return loss?
Splitters used in the CATV industry do not pass power. Drop amps are usually powered locally. There are splitters made that do pass power on one port, and they would be used if an amp needed to be powered remotely. They isolate the DC path from the RF path to prevent that potential saturation.

Splitters used in the CATV industry do not pass power. Drop amps are usually powered locally.
Ok, so does "powered locally" mean powered by AC or an AC adapter? The PCT amp I use now (http://www.amazon.com/PCT-BI-DIRECTIONAL-AMPLIFIER-BOOSTER-PASSIVE/dp/B000F28DP2/) is powered by an AC adapter and the adapter plugs into a short coax line which plugs into the amp. I'm trying to figure out, with that amp do I need splitters that pass power or do not pass power? I don't know, because I don't know the splitter types I'm using now if they pass or don't pass power.

And what about the caps? "And does that mean they should not have the blocking caps? Or are the blocking caps only for return loss?"

Thanks.

Ok, so does "powered locally" mean powered by AC or an AC adapter? The PCT amp I use now (http://www.amazon.com/PCT-BI-DIRECTIONAL-AMPLIFIER-BOOSTER-PASSIVE/dp/B000F28DP2/) is powered by an AC adapter and the adapter plugs into a short coax line which plugs into the amp. I'm trying to figure out, with that amp do I need splitters that pass power or do not pass power? I don't know, because I don't know the splitter types I'm using now if they pass or don't pass power.

And what about the caps? "And does that mean they should not have the blocking caps? Or are the blocking caps only for return loss?"

Thanks.
Powered means that the power supply is right there with the amp, as yours is. Remote powering would be if the amp were in, say, a crawl space where there is no power available and the power supply were located in, say, a bedroom.

You do not need power (a) passing splitter(s), and, yes, the splitter(s) should have blocking capacitors.

Thanks Ed.

Hey Ed (or anyone), I got the order in from MCM, and like the last order a week earlier, they sent the wrong splitters. But at least this time it appears they may have sent better splitters than what I ordered (http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/33-2130). What's a bit confusing is they show the image of the Tru-Spec DSG-2100, but if you look at the PN it says "GHS-2". That's what they sent, a Holland GHS-2.

It looks just like the image here (http://www.3starinc.com/images/super/GHS-2_800x600t.jpg), except the one I have replaced the "OUT" with "-3.5db". I guess that's minimum because when you look at the specs here (http://www.3starinc.com/manuals/GHS_CATV_Digital_Splitters.pdf) it lists up to a 3.9db loss under "TYP". (I don't know what "QC" means in that chart). They mention "digital" there in that spec sheet, but in the spec sheet here (http://www.nco-corp.com/pdf/Holland%20Drop%20Passives.pdf), it doesn't say anything about "digital" like others do below it in the file, and it says only "Medium Intermodulation Distortion".

It does say "Capacitor Decoupled", and it has 130db shielding. So are these indeed better than that Tru-Spec I thought I was getting?

Thanks.

After reading this forum I wanted to make a few corrections/comments. From a electronics standpoint -3dB is commonly called the half power point, which is where as the name suggests you have half the power you original started with. so if you started with a 100W of signal and put it into a two way splitter, each leg would then have 50W of power in it. -7dB is roughly 1/4 power. If you have a strong enough signal from your cable company adding an extra splitter usually won't be noticed much. However, I live in the country and due to the loses associated with 150ft of RG6 cable i lose -7B easily before the main cable is 4way split for another -7db.

A better explanation and maybe guide for those wanting more complex setups. www dot swhowto dot com/VideoLoss.html ,Sorry for not making a direct link because this is my first post Im not allowed to use a url

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Im just gonna see if the cheap Bi-direction amp i bought on clearance helps any.

After reading this forum I wanted to make a few corrections/comments. From a electronics standpoint -3dB is commonly called the half power point, which is where as the name suggests you have half the power you original started with. so if you started with a 100W of signal and put it into a two way splitter, each leg would then have 50W of power in it. -7dB is roughly 1/4 power. If you have a strong enough signal from your cable company adding an extra splitter usually won't be noticed much. However, I live in the country and due to the loses associated with 150ft of RG6 cable i lose -7B easily before the main cable is 4way split for another -7db.
But that is wattage. I've known that for a while to get a 3db louder sound the wattage must be doubled, (and the same with a 3db cut is half the wattage), but does that also apply to CATV? I've never heard 'wattage' used to described anything with CATV.

After reading this forum I wanted to make a few corrections/comments. From a electronics standpoint -3dB is commonly called the half power point, which is where as the name suggests you have half the power you original started with. so if you started with a 100W of signal and put it into a two way splitter, each leg would then have 50W of power in it. -7dB is roughly 1/4 power. If you have a strong enough signal from your cable company adding an extra splitter usually won't be noticed much. However, I live in the country and due to the loses associated with 150ft of RG6 cable i lose -7B easily before the main cable is 4way split for another -7db.

A better explanation and maybe guide for those wanting more complex setups. www dot swhowto dot com/VideoLoss.html ,Sorry for not making a direct link because this is my first post Im not allowed to use a url

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Im just gonna see if the cheap Bi-direction amp i bought on clearance helps any.
Yes, "splitter" is just another name for a power divider. In fact, in commercial C-Band systems, they are called power dividers. Your comments are 100% correct.

To those who do not readily understand actual power level as compared to relative signal strength, though, it can all be confusing. Motorola advertises that their drop amps increase the signal level by 32 times, which it does. However, the gain of the relative signal strength is 15dB. Someone with a meter reads their signal and tells them that the signal strength is 5dBmV. They buy an amp that increases the signal level by 32 times, and they expect the output of the amp to be a whole lot more than the 20dBmV that comes out of ti.

Someone knows that there is a signal level of 20dBmV at a particular location. Give them a device and tell them that it cuts the signal in 1/4th, and they think the output of that device will be 5. In actuality, of course, the device is a 4-way splitter which, while dividing the power by four, merely drops the relative signal strength by ~7dB. The actual output is 13dBmV, not 5.

Using the same forms of expression and terminology reduces the chances of misunderstanding this stuff

But that is wattage. I've known that for a while to get a 3db louder sound the wattage must be doubled, (and the same with a 3db cut is half the wattage), but does that also apply to CATV? I've never heard 'wattage' used to described anything with CATV.
Yes. The laws of physics are the laws of physics, regardless of where they are applied.