Ok, I am ready to jump now. Comcast took my NFL network away and put it into their sports package. Plus, they put these annoying ads in the program guide. It looks like D* is about to add a huge number of GOOD HD channels. Are all of the current HD installs getting the 5 lnb dish? How cool is the HV20? I have never had a DVR before.

Rowdy, make the jump. Don't let any of the D* haters persuade you and say they don't have "true HD". I have pretty good eyes and think the HD channels look pretty good. NFL Network is in one of the basic tiers, I believe, and their games are in HD. Also, they might give you a good deal on the NFL Sunday Ticket if you jump over.

Yes, you will get a 5 lnb dish and the HR-20 works really good, it is my 1st dvr too. I think they were buggy at first, but most people really love them.

I'm a Directv customer and I'll tell you they don't have true HD, it's a known fact they downscale their (non local) 1080i HD channels due to lack of bandwidth on the current sats.

We are hoping this changes with the MPEG4 sats coming online, in the mean time you may want to wait back for the upgrade to come and see what the reports are on it before you make the jump and get stuck in a 2 year contract.

The HD DVR is the HR20 by the way, from what I've read, it had it's fair share of issues when it came out but D* has been aggressively putting out fixes for it and it's better for the most part. My contract just expired for my current HR10-250 DVR and I'm holding off on upgrading until the new channels go online and I see what kind of reviews they get.

DirecTV is a noticeable step down in HDTV PQ on most 1080i channels. If you have a smaller display, you may not notice, but it is very obvious on larger 1080p displays.

DirecTV won't be the only one adding channels, so you may want to wait a few months before signing a two year contract to a service which -- as of the moment -- offers reduced PQ.

I am among the many on this forum who switched to DirecTV and then switched back due to unacceptable HD PQ.

Rowdy, if the NFL is your priority, what took you so long? ;)

I just switched on Friday from Comcast to D*. I am a VERY PICKY HDTV owner (I have a 61" RPTV and a 1080p projector running off a 134" screen).

Yes, D* compresses and downrezzes their HD. That is well documented. I notice WAAAAY more macroblocking on the HD channels, but to me that is a tradeoff I was willing to make in order to get almost every NFL game in HD (downrezzed be damned - it's still better than SD by miles and miles). I also think the HR20 kicks the sh** out of Comcast's buggy Scientific Atlanta DVR's.

I was watching a preseason game today on NFL Network HD and was noticing all the macroblocking but then I realized that this was a game I wouldn't even be seeing at all on Comcast let alone in HD (or HD-Lite - that's for you, Xylon :) ).

So, it all boils down to what is most important to you. I always have my HD-DVD and BluRay players to have pure pristine 1080p content. Besides, I'd rather have a ton more HD-Lite channels (which look way better here in Houston than most of these threads would have you believe) than the 10 or so "true_HD" channels that Comcast offers.

By the way, Comcast's HD feeds here in Houston have lots of macroblocking too. Not as much as D*, but it was readily apparent.

Besides the macroblocking (which is mostly noticeable on fast moving scenes), the HD image is quite good to my eyes. Almost as good as Comcast. Again, I am talking about my experience here in Houston and I have nothing to gain by being a "fanboy" for either provider.

I say all of this to say - I am not sorry at all to have switched.

I appreciate all of the responses. I am aware of D* and HDLite, however, with all of the new HD channels coming online next month, I simply cant resist. Anyway, I have already committed to an install on Saturday. I will post my impressions here after the install to report on picture quality. One note however, I am currently using component. I probably need to get an HDMI to DVI converter and then make a comparison. I will be fair and objective on my analysis. Anyway, I still cant wait for next month. Football and a whole slew of new HD channels.

I appreciate all of the responses. I am aware of D* and HDLite, however, with all of the new HD channels coming online next month, I simply cant resist.Who's to say Comcast won't have most of the new channels?

I understand some people care more about quantity than quality. I could understand switching if DirecTV had 80 HDTV channels and Comcast had 30. However, as of today, Comcast has 60% more HD channels than DirecTV. Furthermore, we have no idea how many more channels DirecTV will offer than Comcast. For all we know, Comcast will offer just as many HD channels as DirecTV in many markets, but with superior quality.

I just don't see how it makes sense to lock oneself into a two-year contract with DirecTV when we have no idea how the services will compare in a few months. I would wait a few months to see how things shake out first.

I would wait a few months to see how things shake out first.

The NFL Season starts in less than a month.

All I know is the reports I've seen of MPEG 4 PQ, I'm not in an area served with MPEG 4 HD locals or RSNs, through DIRECTV have been excellent. And there seems to be this popular belief that cable doesn't compress, but talking to one of the local affiliates engineer I found that he was less than impressed by how local cable was delivering their HD signal.

The NFL Season starts in less than a month.

All I know is the reports I've seen of MPEG 4 PQ, I'm not in an area served with MPEG 4 HD locals or RSNs, through DIRECTV have been excellent. And there seems to be this popular belief that cable doesn't compress, but talking to one of the local affiliates engineer I found that he was less than impressed by how local cable was delivering their HD signal.Some cable companies certainly do re-compress, including Cablevision, Charter, Cox, and Time Warner. However, I don't think any apply as much extra compression as DirecTV. Further, FiOS does not apply extra compression, and Comcast doesn't either in many areas.

Who's to say Comcast won't have most of the new channels?

For all we know, Comcast will offer just as many HD channels as DirecTV in many markets, but with superior quality.

You can't be serious. Cable bandwidth is already heavily tapped. They can't launch a new bird to increase it. Plus, it is a shared pipe so the more subs the more the system is strained. Neither of these issues applies with Satellite.

Sure bitrates could be higher, but there is always another rocket launch to add additional bandwidth. There is no quick way to increase cable's national bandwidth.

DirecTV will indeed surpass Comcast and all cable providers BY FAR with HD content within the next coming year unless there is some sort of major catastrophe with their new hardware implementation. Still, Comcast does not offer all that many more HD channels than D* right now. You really need to scrutinize your math. I believe Comcast currently offers 15 HD channels to DirecTV's 12. That's hardly a 60% difference as you claim. I'm getting these numbers straight from both companies' websites.

DISH has the most right now!!

DISH has the most right now!!
1440x1080i FTL

You can't be serious. Cable bandwidth is already heavily tapped. They can't launch a new bird to increase it. Plus, it is a shared pipe so the more subs the more the system is strained. Neither of these issues applies with Satellite.

Sure bitrates could be higher, but there is always another rocket launch to add additional bandwidth. There is no quick way to increase cable's national bandwidth.Huh?

Most modern cable cable systems have 50% of more of their bandwidth wasted on analog channels. Cable companies like Comcast know that they can't compete while retaining dozens of analog channels, which is why they now have roadmaps in place to eliminate those channels, migrating to mostly-digital systems in the next several years. Comcast Chicago eliminated about 30 analog channels earlier this year.

The original poster complained that Comcast moved NFL Network into their sports package. I'm sure the high cost of that channel -- now almost $1 per subscriber per month -- had something to do with the move, but I bet Comcast also eliminated the analog version of the channel and made it digital-only when they did that.

Every analog channel your cable provider eliminates (i.e. moves to digital tier) frees up space for two full-bitrate 1080i HD channels, three full-bitrate 720p HD channels, or four DirecTV-quality "HDTV Lite" channels. And that's without SDV. How many analog channels did your Comcast have? Multiple that by four to find the number of HDTV channels they could add at DirecTV's quality without SDV, or by six to find the number of HDTV channels they could add with SDV.

Satellite is a shared pipe for national delivery. Every DirecTV subscriber gets their national channels from the same beam(s). Satellite providers can only re-use capacity for locals, where each region receives a different beam (called a spot beam) with their own locals.

I'm not sure where you got the idea that satellite providers can just send up new satellites any old time they want. For one, satellites take years -- and $200+ million-- to build and launch. Second, DirecTV only has a limited amount of licensed spectrum (chart here (http://www.dbsforums.com/compare/chart_main.html)). Once that licensed spectrum is used, a satellite provider can only gain trivial capacity by reducing the bits dedicated to error correction (FEC) with more powerful satellites.

With the launch of DirecTV-10 and DirecTV-11, DirecTV will finally make use of its Ka licenses at 103 and 99 degrees for national video delivery. Each satellite will add 36x14=504MHz of CONUS bandwidth, for a total of ~1GHz.

Adding 1GHz of new satellite capacity sounds very impressive compared to a Comcast 860MHz cable system, but you've got to consider that wired transmission via cable is far more efficient than wireless transmission via satellite. Each existing DBS slot (Ku 101, 119, etc) provides 32 transponders @ 24MHz usable, or 768MHz bandwidth. However, once you account for the comparatively inefficient transmission, each DBS slot offers the cable-equivalent of 180MHz capacity (or 26 analog channels).

With all of its satellites now in service, DirecTV has the equivalent national capacity of a 224MHz digital cable system (or 37 analog channels). Together, the new DirecTV-10 and DirecTV-11 Ka satellites add the cable-equivalent of 264MHz capacity (or 44 analog channels), assuming use of 8PSK modulation. That's right, even with all of DirecTV's old and new satellites put together, they still have just 60% the national channel capacity of a 860MHz cable system.

For those who want to see the math:

A single 27MHz (24MHz usable) Ku transponder nets 40 Mbps with QPSK, but just 31.5 Mbps is usable after error correction. DirecTV holds licenses for a total of 46 Ku transponders across its three CONUS DBS slots, which works out to 46 x 31.5 = 1.449 Gbps. By comparison, cable providers get 38.8 Mbps usable in the space of every analog channel with 256QAM modulation. Do the math, 1449 / 38.8 = 37 analog channels.

The new DirecTV-10 and DirecTV-11 satellites each have a payload of 14 Ka CONUS transponders. Each 40MHz (36MHz usable) Ka transponder nets about 61Mbps usable with 8PSK modulation @ 3/4 FEC. That works out to an additional 28 x 61 = 1.708 Gbps of national capacity. Again, cable providers get 38.8Mbps usable in the space of every analog channel, so 1708 / 38.8 = 44 analog channels. Capacity is substantially less if DirecTV is unable to use 8PSK.

Total usable DirecTV national (CONUS) satellite capacity with the old and new satellites is ~3.2 Gbps. The typical 860MHz Comcast cable system has capacity for 135 analog channels, or 135 x 38.8 = 5.238 Gbps.
That puts things in perspective, I think.

Now, that ignores the fact that DirecTV will be using MPEG-4 (H.264) for all new HD channels. However, even if you figure in a liberal 50% efficiency improvement for MPEG-4 on all new national HD channels added with the DirecTV-10 and DirecTV-11 satellites, DirecTV still has just 3/4 the national channel capacity of a 860MHz all-digital cable system using MPEG-2. And of course, cable providers will use MPEG-4 (H.264) eventually.

My point is simply that cable companies have plenty of bandwidth available if they make use of digital delivery. If they eliminate most of their analog channels, they can compete for many years to come. If they eliminate just a few, they can compete in the near term. If they maintain the status quo with 80+ analog channels, then they cannot compete.

I believe Comcast currently offers 15 HD channels to DirecTV's 12. That's hardly a 60% difference as you claim. I'm getting these numbers straight from both companies' websites.http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=419472

OK, I said I would post after my D* install. I am very pleased with D*. Yes the picture quality is not as good as Comcast, but the difference is small. I now am set up to get all of the new HD channels when they are available. Plus I now have a DVR and Sunday Ticket and the NFL Network. All this and I am paying LESS per month. I would encourage everyone to switch from Comcast to D*.

Glad to hear it went well and you got what you wanted for a price you wanted. If you're not getting any MPEG 4 programming currently, I would hold off until the new HD channels are lit and then do PQ comparisons.

OK, I said I would post after my D* install. I am very pleased with D*. Yes the picture quality is not as good as Comcast, but the difference is small. I now am set up to get all of the new HD channels when they are available. Plus I now have a DVR and Sunday Ticket and the NFL Network. All this and I am paying LESS per month. I would encourage everyone to switch from Comcast to D*.

Can you please share your "costs". Comparing comcast and D*
I am with comcast and thinking of switching. I have almost made up my mind with going to Dish/E* but I haven't pulled the trigger yet.

also, why didn't you choose E* instead of D*

Can you please share your "costs". Comparing comcast and D*
I am with comcast and thinking of switching. I have almost made up my mind with going to Dish/E* but I haven't pulled the trigger yet.

also, why didn't you choose E* instead of D*

I cant give you the exact numbers, but the cost to move was the cost of the DVR lease. As far as my monthly payment, it is almost the same as what I was paying with Comcast. A few dollars less. Go to D* and look at the cost of the premium package. That will be my cost after the first 4 months. You can get 4 months of premium free if you get Sunday Ticket. So for the same cost, here is the comparison-

Comcast-Here is what I had-
Premium Package
HBO, Cinemax, Showtime, Starz
No Sports Package
They took the NFL Network away and added it to their sports package

D*-What I have now-
Premium Package
HBO, Cinemax, Showtime, Starz
D* Sports package comes with Premium and it includes ESPNU.
I get the NFL Network in any Standard Package at no extra charge
NFL Sunday Ticket
An HD DVR

Compare the above and you very quickly see how much more you get with D*. I also added Superfan and Gameplan because I am such a Football nut. Also, look in the above thread which deals with D* 2007 new HD offerings. This will put them ahead of everyone else with the most HD Channels by the end of the year. I am now ready for all of the new MPEG4 HD Channels. Plus D* gave me a cash back rebate.

I dont know much about E*, so I cant really tell you much about it. I had VOOM before it got canned and E* took it over. VOOM picture quality was better than D* and Comcast combined.

Anyway, you can clearly see how much more you will get with D* over Comcast. The picture quality is only slightly worse. Macroblocking in really intense motion scenes. Last night I watched the Giants game on NBC and the picture quality was absolutely outstanding. I also watched golf on CBS over the weekend and that picture was outstanding.

I chose D* over E* for all of those new HD channels coming up next month, plus NFL Sunday Ticket.

My opinion on HD Lite: 1440 or 1920 res I don't care, my projector is 1280x720 @ 102" and HD looks awesome to me! Even compared to my OTA's I can't really tell any difference.

HD20-100 and 5LNB slimline.

Kej2u - I'm also in the Houston area (The Woodlands) and happy with Comcast, but want the NFL Ticket, so considering a dual service setup. After doing a little internet search homework, I'm hearing all sorts of horror stories on the D* installations. Any recommendations on a quality DirecTV installer?

Also on the HR20 HD DVR, has D* worked the bugs out of these units yet?