Samsung Service Menu Calibration Guide [Text View]

donb1948

08-14-07, 10:55 PM

docrings

08-15-07, 11:53 AM

DocRings… As I previously noted, I have no experience with the HL-S. Though I’m aware that there are differences in calibrating the HL-S and HL-R models, I have noted a few things that I consider odd in the way the HL-S procedure differs from the HL-R. I’m definitely not an expert – just a lot of experience (and not all good). Please disregard any and all if you are comfortable with your original sources.

1. This point I’m sure about… You need to add a step to turn off CCA before adjusting color. In order to correctly adjust the color decoder using the User Menu “Color” control or the Service Menu “sub-color” control, CCA must be turned off. Both Eliab and David Abrams have mentioned this is necessary with both the HL-R and HL-S because of the way the CCA mixes colors to move the coordinate position of the primary and secondary colors. If CCA is on when the color adjustment is made, you are not dealing with the colors from the decoder but with the decoder colors after they have been manipulated.

Yes, I've done both, and seems to not matter since I can "get there from here". I will add the option, though, since I trust both those gentlemen. I just wanted to minimize steps for the n00bies, especially if this method gets there, but maybe just a little different path.

2. Populating the (color)x, (color)y, (color)Y data. For the HL-R, the x,y,Y data is initially measured with CCA off and using specific patterns (primary colors & white) generated internally via a parameter in the service menu. (For the HL-R, the menu is DDP1011 > Test Pattern. Don’t know if this menu is in the HL-S.) The theory is that each light engine is different and using the internal patterns with CCA off, you can get the true output of the light engine for the CCA to work with.
I'm using the same colors & white from the GetGray. BUT, that would be nice to have that option for those without the DVD. I'll try and dig into the SM and find those patterns. I've seen them before in there, but want to ensure accurate directions. Thanks for the tip!

The basic procedure you’ve described for use after populating the initial CCA data is essentially the same as for the HL-R.

Obviously, the point is to get the color coordinates aligned with one of the standards (HD or Std). Since your method gets you there, all’s fine. Just thought I’d indicate what I have found.

3. Use of the “WB Spread” parameter. For the HL-R, this control not only turns CCA back on, it also “spreads” or copies the data to other inputs. This is good for the first input, to provide a common starting point for tweaking each input. However, if you calibrate a second input and use WB Spread, it could wipe out your first input calibration. I do not know that the HL-S works the same way. You might want to check it.

Thank you for the very important point I did not know! Ain't this forum great? Yes, it did "spread" the values to all my inputs. And I'll put your tip in the guide to "not" use the WB Spread for other inputs, but to just turn "on" the CCA to activate the new DcolorX, DcolorY values.

For the HL-R, I have found that CCA does not need to be turned off to update the CCA data. To get CCA to update if CCA is not turned off, just back out of the menu by one level from the level in which the data is entered. This also works in entering the D(Color) values. This way, you can stay in the CCA menus and see right away the impact of a change in one of the values.

Are you saying to back out of the individual data entry box, or back out of the CCA(on) menu? Either way, I'll give that tip a try on my next calibration (1080p on HD-DVD when I get the HD-DVE disc in the mail]

4. Beware the referenced “Sencore Calibration” article. Eliab has commented publicly in the main HL-S thread that the Sencore procedure is factually incorrect in part and flat out would not work with the HL-S.

Thanks, it's good to know I'm not the only one who thought it was incorrect for the HL-S models... but it was a key article for me (and hopefully others) in building a knowledge database on how this menu works. I'll put a little annotation in there.

FWIW.
Your comments are worth alot! Thank you!

Cheers,
Doc

alwilli

08-16-07, 03:48 PM

The HLTs are a little different than the HLS

The HLT models have a “Desaturation” menu in addition to the CCA menu. It has xy coordinates for primaries and secondaries called "Normal" and another set called "sRGB". You can calibrate "normal" to rec 601(SD) and sRGB to rec 709 (HD). Initially sRGB is close to Rec. 709. Start by inputting the expected values for the primaries and secondaries for each standard in the Desat menu. Then turn CCA off then back on for your change to take effect. If you want to copy this to other inputs, WB spread. This will get you close. You can then tweak the coordinates in the Desaturation menu in the SM to get all coordinates to line up with the CIE coordinates like this:

Note: SM default is Dynamic Cool1 for white point

1. CCA on
2. Measure primaries/secondaries
3. Calculate x and y delta from nominal
4. Change x and y by that delta in Desaturation menu
5. CCA off
6. CCA on
7. Re-measure
8. Repeat until all primaries and secondaries line up
9. WB spread to copy to all inputs

You can use continuous reading to help if you have SW that does this. I am sure you can probably tweak the CCA values to accomplish this as well. I have not tried that yet. It would be faster because you could see the effect of your changes by scrolling up or down to the next data field in the CCA menu.

Done? Nope. I found that when you exit SM and measure in the user menu that things are off slightly. Don’t know why.

User mode will be Dynamic
If you didn’t set contrast, brightness, color in SM do so in user and note your settings.

1. Measure primaries/secondaries
2. Calculate x and y delta from nominal
3. Enter SM
4. Change x and y by that delta in Desaturation menu
5. CCA off
6. CCA on
7. WB spread
8. Exit SM

Go into user
Enter calibrated user settings if needed
Repeat steps 1-8 until everything lines up.

Write down all original values, tweak at your own risk, and good luck.

I have noticed that the color decoder does not seem quite right. I do not know how to tweak this. The luminance values for RGB are not right when compared to what they should be to comprise white.

You can tell that I do not write tech manuals for a living but I hope this info helps.

donb1948

08-16-07, 04:18 PM

Are you saying to back out of the individual data entry box, or back out of the CCA(on) menu Back out of the "individual data entry box," and the CCA calculations will update using the new data. I find measurement easier with the data entry box on the screen (more clear space for the pattern). So, after backing out, I use the remote to immediately re-enter the data entry level and make the measurement, which I can immediately tweak, if needed. As before, works for the HL-R... don't know about the HL-S.

docrings

08-16-07, 09:39 PM

Great feedback.. I'll incorporate into the guide to check here for HL-T users!

Cheers!
Doc

:cool:

JerryD

08-17-07, 03:34 PM

I have a Samsung HLR6178W and the picture has creeped in about 2 " on the left side leaving a 2" black band. Does anyone know the adjustment to correct this alignment problem?

donb1948

08-17-07, 05:32 PM

I have a Samsung HLR6178W and the picture has creeped in about 2 " on the left side leaving a 2" black band. Are you sure this is not the infamous "shadow on the left" problem caused by the collasped light tunnel? There is a thread on it: Shadow on the Left (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=758625&page=1&pp=30) This is not correctable via service menu adjustments.

moshmothma

08-19-07, 08:01 PM

The HLTs are a little different than the HLS

The HLT models have a “Desaturation” menu in addition to the CCA menu.
I have noticed that the color decoder does not seem quite right. I do not know how to tweak this. The luminance values for RGB are not right when compared to what they should be to comprise white.

You can tell that I do not write tech manuals for a living but I hope this info helps.

Great addendum to an already awesome guide. I wish I had understood CCA on and off would update things since I wasn't sure I kept WB spreading. Would have saved me a bit of time.
BTW, did Samsung just make this process even the more grueling by putting the Dvalues in another menu?

Can anyone help me understand the following:

1.What are the Contrast offset, (M)Contrast Offset, Sub Color_offset used for?
2. Can anyone else verify this - if I change inputs or power down my set I must now enter the SM and 'touch' the gamma control in order to get my settings to take. Without doing this gamma, grayscale, and color are off (it really looks like it is in some kind of burn mode similar to the shop demo mode - but that is off). All I need do is adjust gamma up and then back down and things are normal. Of course this is a pain because it resets all my user mode settings.
3. Is there a way to custom set the defaults for user menu? Dni off, Sharpness off, Size 16:9, active color off?
4. What is active color btw?
5. Finally, I thought there was a way to use the PC mode while using the HDMI input? Detailed settings is completely grayed out for me. Thanks

docrings

08-20-07, 01:28 PM

Can anyone help me understand the following:

1.What are the Contrast offset, (M)Contrast Offset, Sub Color_offset used for?

Don't know... but look forward to an answer...

2. Can anyone else verify this - if I change inputs or power down my set I must now enter the SM and 'touch' the gamma control in order to get my settings to take. Without doing this gamma, grayscale, and color are off (it really looks like it is in some kind of burn mode similar to the shop demo mode - but that is off). All I need do is adjust gamma up and then back down and things are normal. Of course this is a pain because it resets all my user mode settings.

New one on me...

3. Is there a way to custom set the defaults for user menu? Dni off, Sharpness off, Size 16:9, active color off?

Yes, you can turn off DNIe in the DNIe menu, and also deactive the first 10 SNI_PROC settings in the DNIe menu. You can turn off NR in the SDP(51) menu. You must do this individually for each input and resolution you calibrate. e.g. My XBOX can output 480p *and* 1080i over component for gaming and DVD's... I must calibrate and make DNIe and Noise reduction settings for each one, even though it's all going over one input.

4. What is active color btw?

Which menu do you see that?

5. Finally, I thought there was a way to use the PC mode while using the HDMI input? Detailed settings is completely grayed out for me. Thanks

Can you still do a service menu calibration? Then you won't ever have to touch the settings in the video user menu...

Cheers,
Doc

PS: Just learning all this stuff, too! :cool:

moshmothma

08-20-07, 02:48 PM

Which menu do you see that?

Can you still do a service menu calibration? Then you won't ever have to touch the settings in the video user menu...

Cheers,
Doc

PS: Just learning all this stuff, too! :cool:

THanks for the reply

1. Active Color is on the User menu - right under DNIe.
2. I did a service menu calibration (which is now AWESOME! thanks to your guide). THe problem is because of my need to touch the gamma everytime I turn the set on, I have to reenter the SM which resets all of the User menu options to the default.

Thanks again for the awesome guide.

docrings

08-20-07, 02:52 PM

THanks for the reply

1. Active Color is on the User menu - right under DNIe.
2. I did a service menu calibration (which is now AWESOME! thanks to your guide). THe problem is because of my need to touch the gamma everytime I turn the set on, I have to reenter the SM which resets all of the User menu options to the default.

Thanks again for the awesome guide.

If you did the service menu calibration, and disabled DNIe and NR, then entering and exiting the SM should not change the picture... unless something else is happening...
Your problem is unique, and I'm not sure what to make of it with the Gamma menu issue...

Good luck,
Doc
:cool:

moshmothma

08-21-07, 10:54 AM

If you did the service menu calibration, and disabled DNIe and NR, then entering and exiting the SM should not change the picture... unless something else is happening...
Your problem is unique, and I'm not sure what to make of it with the Gamma menu issue...

Good luck,
Doc
:cool:

Yeah, I seem to happen upon these unique sets. How do I approach Samsung support about this one? Does anyone know how to just get to their level 2 support?

Unfortunately, I have an HLT set and cannot find the NR controls in the SM. I did confirm though that DNIe off or on in the User Menu does not affect PQ if DNIe is off in the SM.

Now the only things left in the user menu i have to alter is the sharpness control (defaults to 75), and the size (defaults to Just Scan).

Thanks

alwilli

08-21-07, 11:04 AM

Moshmothma,

Exactly what do you mean when you say "Touch the gamma"?

Alvin

moshmothma

08-21-07, 06:34 PM

Moshmothma,

Exactly what do you mean when you say "Touch the gamma"?

Alvin

Yeah, it's kinda wierd. I described it in one of my earlier posts. Basically, I have to enter the SM, go to Gamma move it up a notch and then back down before my calibrated settings are enabled. Once I do this, all is normal until I shut the set off or change inputs. Without doing this gamma, brightness, grayscale and color are all off. To me it looks like it is in shop mode (but isn't).

dewar1234

08-25-07, 04:37 PM

why do your instructions for adjusting the brightness and contrast differ from the instructions in the getgray pdf?

nopain00

10-20-07, 06:40 PM

moshmothma

10-21-07, 09:38 PM

Thanks to alwilli for the HLT update. I also have noticed that once calibrated in the SM, the colors appear off in the UM once you exit. Going back and forth into and out of the SM to recalibrate is tedious.

Thanks.

Does not always work that way for me. I have definitely taken measurements within the SM and without and things were the same. This set has been very hokey for me that way.

donb1948

10-22-07, 09:07 AM

Thanks to alwilli for the HLT update. I also have noticed that once calibrated in the SM, the colors appear off in the UM once you exit. Going back and forth into and out of the SM to recalibrate is tedious.

Does anyone know why the there is a difference once you exit the SM? Is some other enhancement feature being turned on when you go into the user mode that changes the colors slightly? It seems pointless that you can get something so close in the SM, only to have to retweak it in user mode.

Thanks.
No answer… just a bit of history… This info is from the HL-T owners’ thread but I was too lazy to look for the specific posts.

When the HL-T’s first came out, Eliab and David reported that the sets could not be calibrated via the service menu. They reported that the set reverted to different settings on leaving the service menu and that returning the service menu to the original settings did not get back to the original picture parameters (gamut, gray scale, etc.). They reported that Samsung had been contacted about the problem and the Samsung engineers were investigating.

I do not remember that either Eliab or David ever explained what the problem was. There was one post from either Eliab or David that suggested that the calibration had to be done in a certain order for settings to hold. But, no details were given.

Eliab and David were the first to calibrate one of these sets and report about it on AVS. None of the other calibrators who later posted in the HL-T thread reported the problem.

FWIW.

(EDIT: I just remembered something else. There were a couple of posts that speculated that the problem had to do with the the system in the HL-T that compensated for the natural decay of the light output of the LEDs. The circuit could not tell the difference between the LEDs aging and the light output being changed via the service menu. This was never "officially" confirmed. Nor was there ever any word of a fix. As before, FWIW.)

nopain00

10-22-07, 02:03 PM

No answer… just a bit of history… This info is from the HL-T owners’ thread but I was too lazy to look for the specific posts.

When the HL-T’s first came out, Eliab and David reported that the sets could not be calibrated via the service menu. They reported that the set reverted to different settings on leaving the service menu and that returning the service menu to the original settings did not get back to the original picture parameters (gamut, gray scale, etc.). They reported that Samsung had been contacted about the problem and the Samsung engineers were investigating.

I do not remember that either Eliab or David ever explained what the problem was. There was one post from either Eliab or David that suggested that the calibration had to be done in a certain order for settings to hold. But, no details were given.

Eliab and David were the first to calibrate one of these sets and report about it on AVS. None of the other calibrators who later posted in the HL-T thread reported the problem.

FWIW.

(EDIT: I just remembered something else. There were a couple of posts that speculated that the problem had to do with the the system in the HL-T that compensated for the natural decay of the light output of the LEDs. The circuit could not tell the difference between the LEDs aging and the light output being changed via the service menu. This was never "officially" confirmed. Nor was there ever any word of a fix. As before, FWIW.)

There's definitely something going on with the color calibration between going in the SM and the UM. What's even more strange is that the first time I calibrated with the SM and got my CIE triangle perfect, when I went into the UM and checked it again, it was off--not as far as it was uncalibrated, but somewhere in between.

Then when I went back into the SM, even though my settings (the numbers I input) were still the same as when I calibrated it, the CIE triangle I read with primaries and secondaries was off again, though my different amounts than when checked during UM. Surprisingly, as I kept at it, going back and forth between SM and UM, I was able to get the triangle almost spot on on both the SM and the UM.

It's as if when changed in the SM, the set doesn't update the output until you exit out completely, go into UM, and then go back in.

moshmothma

10-23-07, 09:24 AM

It's as if when changed in the SM, the set doesn't update the output until you exit out completely, go into UM, and then go back in.

I thought I had read that from someone else before as well. Total Pain!!!

armygreen11

10-25-07, 10:27 AM

First I'd just like to say thanks docrings for the HUGE amount of very useful info you've posted here about the HL-S TVs. I've learned a ton already and I just started to do a self calibration on my 5087 with HCFR and a i1-LT. I do have some questions though...

I'm doing my initial cal using a PS3 over HDMI. I did my grayscale last night using AVIA, being upscaled in the PS3, but I'm going to do it again tonight using the 1080p .ts stream IRE/pri/sec fields that found somewhere. (rename them from .ts to .mpg and the ps3 will play them natively). I'm guessing if I set the PS3's display output to RGB full range, that I have to calibrate to 0-255 and not 16-235.

- “Spyder2” probe, change 300ms-->500ms, extend time for dark, average readings
Should I do this with the i1-LT as well? It seemed to give pretty stable dark readings with it off. I didn't change the delay.

- DNIe menu: Use a 100% (or 100 IRE) window with HCFR/Spyder probe, and adjust sub-contrast to a constant reading (xyY) of Y to ~100 (best in a dark home theater setting). [One can also opt to adjust the DB iris in manual mode to the same Y luminance to ~100. (For me that was an iris setting of ~145, but I’m back to DB “on” now. See this link for changing to manual iris)]. For my TV with a new bulb, it was a subcontrast setting of 97.
When using manual iris control to adjust the Y luminance, what should the sub-contrast be set at? Also, 100cd/m^2 is too dim for my taste. My HT is in my livingroom, and it's the family TV that we watch all the time with brighter than optimal room lighting. Should I just set the iris to get a Y of 100 for the calibrations, and then just go back and open it back up when I'm finished?

When adjusting the grayscale, are the WB_color_B_COEFF and WB_color_C_COEFF the only settings that I have to adjust the grayscale over the entire luminance range?

On to color....

- Input HCFR colorx,y & White x,y readings into the CCA menu for Redx, Redy, RedY, Greenx, Greeny, Whitex, Whitey, etc. Be mindful that the Y values must be multiplied by 4 prior to entry into the menu. To change luminance (big Y), you must next adjust the bigY value in CCA so that each color/hue is a standard % of WhiteY value (which you earlier set to a readout of 100). See the HD table at the bottom for values. Spyder2 readout values should be: RedY 21% of WhiteY, GreenY 71% of WhiteY, BlueY 8% of WhiteY.So after I do a primaries and secondaries sensor acquisition, I just plug those numbers into the CCA menu, multiplying the Y values by 4 right? And then I go back and divide the whiteY value by the corresponding % for each pri/sec and then change those numbers again? Or do I throw up the color fields and _measure_ the Y values again, and adjust them so that they're correct % of whiteY in HCFR? This step really confused me.

- Scroll down to WB SPREAD. Activate by selecting it and hitting the right arrow on your remote, and get the “OK”. [It is very important to note that it "spreads" this calibration to ALL the other input channels. Only do this on the FIRST channel you calibrate! For others, just manually to fine-tune ONLY the input channel you are currently calibrating.]What settings does WB Spread actually "spread"? Is it everything, or just the settings for grayscale and color? (iris?, gamma?, NR?...)

Sorry for the novel, thanks in advance!

moshmothma

11-04-07, 07:08 PM

On to color....

So after I do a primaries and secondaries sensor acquisition, I just plug those numbers into the CCA menu, multiplying the Y values by 4 right? And then I go back and divide the whiteY value by the corresponding % for each pri/sec and then change those numbers again? Or do I throw up the color fields and _measure_ the Y values again, and adjust them so that they're correct % of whiteY in HCFR? This step really confused me.

Did this ever get answered for you? I am confused about it as well. Thanks

m9610172

11-26-07, 01:44 PM

tbird8450

01-01-08, 04:09 PM

I ran through docring's basic SM calibration. I don't have a probe, so I stopped at the appropriate point.

I was pleased with my brightness/contrast results, however my colors seemed pretty far off. I used blue-filter glasses with the color test pattern on the THX optimizer. I adjusted the subcolor value per docring's directions.

Now my picture looks oversaturated, and there is some pretty substantial blue-push going on. Apart from that, while the overall image looks sharper, I'm noticing a lot more noise in the image than before. Switching to Movie mode from Dynamic resolves all of these problems, but then I've pretty much defeated the service menu adjustments I made, right?

Am I missing a step somewhere?

Thanks.

docrings

01-01-08, 10:22 PM

I just got my HLT replacement set up and going, and gave the calibration a go today with Spyder2 probe, and HCFR software. Your technique using the Desaturation submenu (of the service menu) is spot-on to the technique I am using. Good job! The only difference I found, is that I didn't have to exit the CCA menu to activate the change, just move up or down to a different x or y variable, and it activates, so the inputs and color calibration go very quickly.

Now if I can find a way to change the Gamma in the service menu, as mine is greyed out to OEM(4) gamma.

Also, can't find a sub-color setting, so still have to manually reduce color in the user video menu after exiting the SM.

I also disabled sharpening, and some of the other "default" dynamic-type settings, too.

So far looks really good, with good greyscale tracking and spot-on color coordinates on the CIE triangle.

See my post in the HLT thread (p. 156).

Cheers,
Doc
:cool:
Cheers!
Doc

The HLTs are a little different than the HLS

The HLT models have a “Desaturation” menu in addition to the CCA menu. It has xy coordinates for primaries and secondaries called "Normal" and another set called "sRGB". You can calibrate "normal" to rec 601(SD) and sRGB to rec 709 (HD). Initially sRGB is close to Rec. 709. Start by inputting the expected values for the primaries and secondaries for each standard in the Desat menu. Then turn CCA off then back on for your change to take effect. If you want to copy this to other inputs, WB spread. This will get you close. You can then tweak the coordinates in the Desaturation menu in the SM to get all coordinates to line up with the CIE coordinates like this:

Note: SM default is Dynamic Cool1 for white point

1. CCA on
2. Measure primaries/secondaries
3. Calculate x and y delta from nominal
4. Change x and y by that delta in Desaturation menu
5. CCA off
6. CCA on
7. Re-measure
8. Repeat until all primaries and secondaries line up
9. WB spread to copy to all inputs

You can use continuous reading to help if you have SW that does this. I am sure you can probably tweak the CCA values to accomplish this as well. I have not tried that yet. It would be faster because you could see the effect of your changes by scrolling up or down to the next data field in the CCA menu.

Done? Nope. I found that when you exit SM and measure in the user menu that things are off slightly. Don’t know why.

User mode will be Dynamic
If you didn’t set contrast, brightness, color in SM do so in user and note your settings.

1. Measure primaries/secondaries
2. Calculate x and y delta from nominal
3. Enter SM
4. Change x and y by that delta in Desaturation menu
5. CCA off
6. CCA on
7. WB spread
8. Exit SM

Go into user
Enter calibrated user settings if needed
Repeat steps 1-8 until everything lines up.

Write down all original values, tweak at your own risk, and good luck.

I have noticed that the color decoder does not seem quite right. I do not know how to tweak this. The luminance values for RGB are not right when compared to what they should be to comprise white.

You can tell that I do not write tech manuals for a living but I hope this info helps.

docrings

01-02-08, 04:07 PM

Now after owning and calibrating an HL-T, it seems that about half of the posts in this thread are in regards to the HL-T model, and NOT the HL-S model which it was intended... but they do all have great information regarding the HL-T calibration and it's menu peculiarities.

At this point, for those of you trying to calibrate LUMINANCE values with the large "Y" values, I would avoid that at this point... it's pretty hard to do reliably, and probably best just setting subcolor with the blue filter, and then tweaking color 'to taste' in the user menu once you are watching a movie (use the "steaming rat" method which is in my TECH LINKS).

Beyond this guide, and if you want to eek out the last bit of performance, I would give Eliab or HTWaits a phone call...

But ain't tweaking fun? That's the whole point...kind of like hot roddin' a car: yes, there are pros that can do it better/faster, but for me, where's the fun in that? (I *am* a gearhead, after all!)

Cheers,
Doc

:cool:

docrings

01-02-08, 04:10 PM

There's definitely something going on with the color calibration between going in the SM and the UM. What's even more strange is that the first time I calibrated with the SM and got my CIE triangle perfect, when I went into the UM and checked it again, it was off--not as far as it was uncalibrated, but somewhere in between.

Then when I went back into the SM, even though my settings (the numbers I input) were still the same as when I calibrated it, the CIE triangle I read with primaries and secondaries was off again, though my different amounts than when checked during UM. Surprisingly, as I kept at it, going back and forth between SM and UM, I was able to get the triangle almost spot on on both the SM and the UM.

It's as if when changed in the SM, the set doesn't update the output until you exit out completely, go into UM, and then go back in.

I've noticed that, too, with my HL-T calibrations... so at least I know I'm not crazy! There's definitely a few more tweaks to be made than the HL-S, which is a superbly easy TV to calibrate! Some dweeb at Samsung really messed up the service menu for us tweakers...:mad:

I wonder if the Service Manual has insight into some of the Service Menus? And what some of the variables do: sensor settings, slopes, etc.?

I think it's a little funny that my "actuator" submenu is misspelled "acturator"....like a bad Asian accent.... ;)

Cheers,
Doc

alwilli

01-02-08, 11:28 PM

Doc,

I don't know if you figured this out yet, but gamma was not grayed out on mine. Are you in the DDP3021 menu, entry 7 down from top? I changed mine to [0] Film. Also, sub color is in the SDP62(PE) menu. What firmware do you have?
By the way I have the service manual and it is zero help for calibration.

Hope this helps.

Alvin

Derko

01-27-08, 09:41 AM

shenmue25

07-10-08, 02:45 AM

help pls! My lcd is samsung, when i go to service menu i go to calibration at the sub menu and my comp & av calibration became failed insread of success...pls heelp me to solve this problem...tnx to u all!!!

ChuckZ

08-17-08, 06:48 PM

I never calibrated any display before but I found this great guide and another good one "Basic Guide to Color Calibration using a CMS".
So I gave it a try over this long holidays. For the most part the two guides were self explanatory and not very hard to follow even for the newbie(for both calibration and English language) like me.

My setup
TV : Samsung DLP HL-S6188
DVD player : Philips DVP5982 upscaling player connected to HDMI1 input to Samsung TV
Colorimeter : eye-one LT
Software : HCFR
Test Pattern : Pattern provided in "Basic Guide to Color Calibration using a CMS" thread.

I was able to calibrate grayscale with no problem. Delta E is under 4 all across 20% to 100%, color temperature is close to 6500K. And Gamma is between 2.2 to 2.4. And primaries/secondaries are very close to CIE triangle diagram after adjusting x, y, Desired x, Desired y values in CCA.

But I have a problem adjusting color decoder(brightness of each color, large Y values). First of all I couldn't get RedY around 21% of WhiteY by adjusting sub-color function in DNIe. It never reaches that points. And all other Y values(left side) in CCA won't let me adjust each color's brightness. So Red Y is like 15% of WhiteY, GreenY is less than 50% of WhiteY, BlueY is 10% of WhiteY and etc after calibration and. And they won't change by adjusting Y values in CCA. I've tried various contrast (from very dark to very bright) but didn't solve the problem.

A little help on how to adjust these Y values would be greatly appreciated. Or is my TV defect?

Sean.

I have the exact same problem as Sean. Adjusting the SubColor control with CCA ON or OFF has almost zero effect on my RedY output. My WhiteY reading whilst displaying a 100% white window is around 87 (CCA ON) or 90 (CCA OFF). By default, my SubColor control is at 62, around which I've calibrated my grayscale and gamma almost perfectly (under 2 DeltaE from 0-100 IRE).

When I adjust the SubColor control, the most my RedY output changes is maybe by 1 (nit; cd/m²). Why do we have the same problem? How can I be sure I have the color decoder set correctly? Should I just forget it and adjust my primaries and secondaries as per the guide?

I wonder if the build date of the television has any effect on the service menu adjustment ability.

To be clear, I'm calibrating for Rec. 601 with a Panasonic DVD-R32 DVD player connected via component at 480i resolution.

curttard

08-30-08, 12:03 PM

rahull

08-31-08, 10:12 AM

My father just got the 61" 750 LED DLP and I'm trying to calibrate it for him. It's taking some trial and error since the menus are different than those given in this thread and some options are missing entirely while others are present that aren't in the guide.

Anyway, one big problem is that I am sending the test patterns from my laptop over VGA. I don't have any HDMI devices to calibrate the HDMI input. The PC input is now getting very close, but watching cable over HDMI still looks off, despite using WB Spread. I'm not sure what to do since I have no HDMI device I can send test patterns over. I was hoping there would be a way to send test patterns to the Comcast DVR over firewire, just as I can take recorded programs off the DVR over firewire, but I haven't been able to find anything.

Anyway, differences I've noticed so far:

- no DNIe options anywhere in service menu
- Sub-Color is in the Sharpness menu for some reason
- Grayscale adjustments are in the WB menu, including Sub-Brightness, Sub-Contrast, and gains and offsets for each color
- the color "D" controls are in the Desaturation menu, and I'm guessing Desaturation must be "ON" for these to be effective?

Also, the user menu options are necessary -- after service menu resets user options, various user options are defaulted to ON including DNIe (in Dynamic mode), edge enhancement, black enhancement, dynamic contrast, etc, and none of these can be set to OFF in the service menu.

Go to CCA menu, turn CCA off
Go to DDP3021 menu measure and record test patterns values
Go to CCA enter measured RGB x,y values
Turn CCA on
CCA menu save
CCA menu spread
Go back to user menu reset all MOVIE values.
Measure grayscale.
Go to WB menu select movie mode adjust values.
Go to user menu reset all MOVIE values.
Measure grayscale
Go to WB select movie mode adjust values.
Keep doing until grayscale is correct.
Go to user menu reset all MOVIE values. I ended with with LED low, GAMMA 0
and 45 FL, WARM2.
Measure gamma, record values
Go to DESATURATION menu
I made Excel spread sheet. Column 1 RGBCMY target values, column 2 measured values, column 3 difference between 1 and 2, column 4 DESATURATION menu WARM2 values, column 5 column 3 plus column 4.
DESATURATION menu enter new WARM2 values, column 5
Go to user menu reset MOVIE values.
Measure GAMMA, record values
Go to DESATURATION menu and repeat process until GAMMA is as correct as possible. I ended up with a blue delta e of one the rest .5 or less.

curttard

08-31-08, 01:03 PM

rahull

08-31-08, 02:03 PM

Thanks, Rahull! I'll try those steps tonight. I'm guessing you're using Movie mode as your base because it doesn't have the DNIe and all that junk on?

...one thing I can tell already is that LED on low will be way too dim -- he is not watching in a dark room, but in a well-lit living room. Flipping channels today I thought some content was too dark even with LED on Max.

Most of what I've read recommends a max contrast of around 40 FL. at night. If he is like me I don't watch HD in the daytime so you can jump up the LEDs. At night in a dark room too much light will cause eye strain. I use a 6500 led back light and low LED. When you move from a gamma of -3 (default) to 0 you'll see a big change. Most recommend watching for a couple of weeks to see if OK before making changes away from a 2.2 gamma

scooper750

08-31-08, 02:35 PM

Edo Gálvez

08-31-08, 02:59 PM

Now if only there was an LG service menu guide. I swear their freaking service menu options were made by aliens.

rahull

08-31-08, 05:20 PM

Just a hint. No need to bounce in and out of the SM for the A650/A750 series of DLPs.
You can take Movie Mode measurements while in the SM. Just make sure to turn expert mode on first. Also seems as if you've misplaced a step. The D targets need to be tweaked before setting grayscale. Once the desired targets are tweaked and primaries/secondaries are aligned on the CIE there will be minimal changes (and in some situations no changes) to be made in the WB menu. CCA needs to be done completely first. This includes setting the xyY values based on readings of the Primary/Secondary patterns in the SM and setting your D Targets (Dxy) for the primaries/secondaries.

Here's a grayscale run for an A650 with adjustments mode soley to CCA. In this particular input NO changes were made in the WB menu.

http://www.digitalvideocalibrations.com/calibrations/Cooper%20Samsung%20HL-61A650/Post%20Cal%20Grayscale%20Round%202.pdf

The service menu for the 750 appears to be different than the 650. The DDP3201 test patterns only display red, green, blue and white. The CCA menu only has x,y for red, green, blue. it does have DW-X DW-Y for the 5 different color temperatures. I didn't know exactly what values to insert so I left them as is. All sRGB x,y values was done in the DESATURATION menu. The SERVICE MANUAL for the 750 has a CINIMA CCA menu it has DWHITE X and Y values for the 5 color temperatures, however under remarks it lists them as adjustments for the target values of RED, GREEN, BLUE, CYAN, MAGENTA (no YELLOW) X,Y for the CCA. I didn't understand so didn't use. Although the default for WARM2 was 313, 329.

ChuckZ

08-31-08, 11:01 PM

On to color....

So after I do a primaries and secondaries sensor acquisition, I just plug those numbers into the CCA menu, multiplying the Y values by 4 right? And then I go back and divide the whiteY value by the corresponding % for each pri/sec and then change those numbers again? Or do I throw up the color fields and _measure_ the Y values again, and adjust them so that they're correct % of whiteY in HCFR? This step really confused me.

Can someone please answer this question? I'm just as confused as armygreen11 is when it comes to calibrating your primaries and secondaries using HCFR.

I found that step in docrings's guide very confusing. It's the last step I need to complete.

curttard

08-31-08, 11:36 PM

scooper750

09-01-08, 08:55 AM

Do not use your own test patterns. If the SM does not have secondary test patterns then the CCA should not have any input for secondary coordinates.
Take your initial measurements with CCA off. Grayscale measurements should be taken with CCA on. The only way to take Movie Mode measurements in the SM is to have expert mode on.

I'm still a bit confused between rahull and scooter. Since the 750 service menu has no secondary patterns, should I just use my own test patterns for all of the primaries and secondaries? Do I do the initial measurements with CCA on or off, and do I have CCA on or off for measuring and tweaking grayscale? You should notice that your require minimal changes to the WB menu when CCA is tweaked correctly.

Edit: Never mind, figured it out. CCA off for measuring test patterns. Measured numbers go in CCA. CCA back on. Then adjust x,y in Desaturation menu as needed to correct for the difference between measured numbers and desired numbers. Changes do not take effect until you turn Desaturation off and then on again (or, presumably, as soon as you turn it ON if you had it OFF).

My CIE diagram is now dead-on.

On to grayscale...

Once I get it all dialed in, I'll put a guide in the 750 thread just since there are the minor differences between service menus...

scooper750

09-01-08, 08:58 AM

Do not blindly multiply the Y value you measure by 4. That is incorrect. The Y values in the Samsung SM are represented by nits (cd/m^2). If the software you are using can output nits measurements then simply enter that value into the SM. If the software you are using is outputing ft lamberts (fL), then multiply that number by 3.4262591. That is the correct conversion.

Docrings, you've got great writeups. You may want to update it with the above though.

Also in regard to CCA when measuring color, I would recommend using 75IRE vs 100IRE due to the fact that there may be runout of some sort at 100IRE if your contrast is not set correctly.

Can someone please answer this question? I'm just as confused as armygreen11 is when it comes to calibrating your primaries and secondaries using HCFR.

I found that step in docrings's guide very confusing. It's the last step I need to complete.

rahull

09-01-08, 09:16 AM

I'm still a bit confused between rahull and scooter. Since the 750 service menu has no secondary patterns, should I just use my own test patterns for all of the primaries and secondaries? Do I do the initial measurements with CCA on or off, and do I have CCA on or off for measuring and tweaking grayscale?

Edit: Never mind, figured it out. CCA off for measuring test patterns. Measured numbers go in CCA. CCA back on. Then adjust x,y in Desaturation menu as needed to correct for the difference between measured numbers and desired numbers. Changes do not take effect until you turn Desaturation off and then on again (or, presumably, as soon as you turn it ON if you had it OFF).

My CIE diagram is now dead-on.

On to grayscale...

Once I get it all dialed in, I'll put a guide in the 750 thread just since there are the minor differences between service menus...

It can get confusing, but my understanding is that after turning off CCA (getting the set back to the primitive status) and measuring the set's test pattern raw values you enter those values in the CCA then turn the CCA on, save and spread. Next proceed to measuring gamma in USER MENU and adjust in DESATURATION. I can't comment on using EXPERT MODE as I never tried it. If it works it would save a lot of time.

EDIT Measure and adjust grayscale before working on gamma.

rahull

09-01-08, 09:30 AM

"Also in regard to CCA when measuring color, I would recommend using 75IRE vs 100IRE due to the fact that they be runout of some sort at 100IRE if your contrast is not set correctly."

That is true. The error should show up however as roll off at the top end of the grayscale.

curttard

09-01-08, 10:38 AM

Do not use your own test patterns. If the SM does not have secondary test patterns then the CCA should not have any input for secondary coordinates.

That's true, it doesn't have secondaries in the CCA menu. I'll try it again this way (using built-in test patterns) and see what difference it makes. As I said, though, using my patterns still ended up with my CIE being dead-on for primaries and secondaries. Although, when I checked grayscale, luminance was good, gamma was good but had a dip around 80%, but RGB was not that great across the scale. Might using the built-in patterns alleviate this? I wouldn't think -- if my colors were spot-on using my patterns -- that how I arrived at it would matter, but I'm willing to try.

Two other things:

1) After tweaking and turning off and going back into regular mode, I ran the patterns through again and everything was off -- colors were no longer spot-on. This was in movie mode, all "extra" features off (dynamic contrast, etc), same color mode I'd been calibrating for, etc. I see from the posts above that this was a problem with the HL-Ts as well; one would think they'd have corrected the problem for the 750s but I guess not.

2) Would gamma 0 in the user menu be the equivalent to whatever I'm seeing in the service menu? In other words, is that the setting that would not throw off the calibration?

A final question: What is the point of plugging in the measured values in the CCA menu? Why not leave those as they are and only adjust the D values in the Desaturation menu until colors are correct? It seems like the only difference would be that the numbers would have to be changed by a larger amount, but otherwise it would be simpler having to deal with only one menu. I'm assuming there is a reason not to do it this way and was just wondering what that reason is.

rahull

09-01-08, 12:34 PM

That's true, it doesn't have secondaries in the CCA menu. I'll try it again this way (using built-in test patterns) and see what difference it makes. As I said, though, using my patterns still ended up with my CIE being dead-on for primaries and secondaries. Although, when I checked grayscale, luminance was good, gamma was good but had a dip around 80%, but RGB was not that great across the scale. Might using the built-in patterns alleviate this? I wouldn't think -- if my colors were spot-on using my patterns -- that how I arrived at it would matter, but I'm willing to try.

Two other things:

1) After tweaking and turning off and going back into regular mode, I ran the patterns through again and everything was off -- colors were no longer spot-on. This was in movie mode, all "extra" features off (dynamic contrast, etc), same color mode I'd been calibrating for, etc. I see from the posts above that this was a problem with the HL-Ts as well; one would think they'd have corrected the problem for the 750s but I guess not.

2) Would gamma 0 in the user menu be the equivalent to whatever I'm seeing in the service menu? In other words, is that the setting that would not throw off the calibration?

A final question: What is the point of plugging in the measured values in the CCA menu? Why not leave those as they are and only adjust the D values in the Desaturation menu until colors are correct? It seems like the only difference would be that the numbers would have to be changed by a larger amount, but otherwise it would be simpler having to deal with only one menu. I'm assuming there is a reason not to do it this way and was just wondering what that reason is.

1. This is why I did all measurements in the USER MENU after changing the default values where necessary.

2. No. Measure grayscale using the different gamma values then continue to use the gamma closest to 2.2 for all further measurements in the USER MENU.

3. The CCA will set the red, green, blue closest to the desired values for the NORMAL, WIDE and sRGB in the COLOR GAMUT of the USER MENU PICTURE OPTIONS all at once. Probably making adjusting the DESATURATION easier (?).

scooper750

09-01-08, 12:38 PM

Remember, do not take measurements in the SM unless you are in expert mode and have chosen PMode of Movie or Calibration. With expert mode off, the SM settings are in some form of dynamic mode so if you take measurements there and everything looks great while in the SM it does not mean that it will look good outside of SM. Expert mode allows you to also lock down the User-Menu settings and change the verbiage from 'Movie' to 'Calibration'. With expert mode you can set the television to have either Movie Mode where all the User controls are not locked down or you can select Calibration mode where the user controls are locked down. When Expert-Calibration is selected you make adjustments to the User Controls in the SM and lock them down. For those that are not familiar with the nuances of the Sammy's I would say out of the controls you are not familiar with. Expert mode included. You can achieve great results without expert mode. It just makes things a little easier. Just wanted people to be aware of the great features that Samsung has added. It is a calibrators dream. Now if they were to add the ability to adjust color luminance for the individual primaries/secondaries, it would be perfect.

curttard

09-01-08, 03:07 PM

Thanks for the tip on Expert mode -- now, finally, the measures stay the same from SM to regular viewing mode when I use the Calibration picture mode.

Please correct this sequence if I'm mistaken:

1) Turn on Expert mode etc
2) Turn off CCA
3) Use built-in test patterns to measure primaries
4) Plug these values into CCA
5) Turn on CCA
6) Use Desaturation menu to adjust x and y for each color until they hit the right measurements.
7) Use DW x and y in CCA menu to adjust white until it hits 313/329?
8) Measure secondaries with your own patterns and use Desat menu to adjust them?
9) Adjust sub contrast and sub brightness in WB menu
10) Adjust sub color in Sharpness menu so that red = 21% ftL of white?
11) Adjust grayscale as needed using gains and offsets in WB menu?

I'm pretty iffy on a lot of that as you can see. I never have any problem getting CIE perfect, but grayscale (luminance, gamma, rgb) is looking rough from the graphs prior to tweaking.

scooper750

09-01-08, 03:37 PM

I haven't seen the service menus for the 750 so I can't be positive. In the 650 series there is a CCA and a Cinema CCA. Cinema CCA represents the movie mode so if you are making all your adjustments for the D targets in CCA vs Cinema CCA then the grayscale will still be off for movie mode.

rahull

09-01-08, 03:44 PM

curttard

09-02-08, 12:36 AM

Okay, using the steps I listed above I got colors perfect, luminance pretty much spot-on, rgb right (except a bit of a bump at 50%), and gamma very very good, all without any grayscale tweaks at all. I was psyched and ready to put the sensor back on the shelf for awhile and just enjoy some viewing.

Problem is, going back to viewing mode threw everything off even though I was using the "Calibration" picture mode (Expert Settings "On" in SM). Went back to SM, and all measurements matched what I had just seen in viewing mode -- all bad. Weird example: While calibrating in SM, Expert On, etc, my 100% white was 313/329. Going to regular mode, it was 303/295. Back to SM, 313/295. But if I bumped up the DW_Y one notch, it jumped to 313/340, and then bumping Y back down one notch -- to the original value -- got it to 313/329 again. In other words, simply moving either control and then moving it back to the original position restores BOTH measurements. Same problem had by a few people on page 1 of this thread with the other models.

Turning CCA off and then back on seems to have the same effect as powering down and going back to viewing mode -- measurements are thrown off, but raising a value and then putting it back down puts it back. WB Spread does the same thing, and so does turning Calibration (in the Expert menu) off and then on. It seems there are a lot of "switches" that screw everything up. WB Spread almost seems to be "spreading" FROM somewhere rather than TO the other groups. If I tweak DW such that white measures 313/329, then hit WB Spread, I might now measure 322/360. If I then change DW such that I get anything else, no matter how far off, hitting WB Spread again will bring me right back to 322/360. I don't know where these numbers are coming from, so don't know what to tweak to correct for them.

It's driving me nuts. Earlier the Expert Settings and Calibration mode seemed to keep my tweaks; now that I finally had everything close to perfect, nothing I do sticks.

rahull

09-02-08, 09:05 AM

curttard

09-02-08, 10:12 AM

I *think* I found the reason why the measurements kept changing. I tweak the DW values for Cool1 mode, since that's what the service menu is in (PC input). Once I get it right, I copy the values to the Warm2 mode in the Cinema CCA menu, since that is what I have the Calibration Picture Mode set to in the Expert Settings.

I think that this time I had forgotten to do that; when I then hit WB Spread, for some bizarre reason it applied the (non-tweaked) Warm2 DW values and threw everything off.

Once I copied my Cool1 DW values to Warm2, WB Spread (or powering off and going back into regular viewing mode) no longer messed things up. My grayscale is still badly off -- which is a bit confusing since I had never tweaked any grayscale controls, only colors, which were still spot-on -- but I guess maybe that's a side effect of chasing the ever-changing numbers before I figured out what was going on.

Anyway, I'm going to reset everything to default and start from scratch, and carry my results to the official 750 DLP thread (and stop cluttering up this one :)). Thanks to everyone for your help.

curttard

09-03-08, 12:09 AM

rahull

09-03-08, 08:52 AM

Sorry, last questions: With CCA off, and using the internal test patterns, shouldn't the measurements I get for the primaries always be the same no matter what adjustments I've made? Isn't that the whole point of turning off the CCA, so that you are getting the raw output?

And how is it that I keep needing to adjust numbers? If I had perfect CIE and I wrote down all the Desat D x and y values, and CCA values haven't changed, why do those numbers no longer work even in the service menu? Each time I try another calibration, my numbers are different, even though each time the CIE diagram is dead-on.

CCA off should give you raw data. While using CALMAN software and a I1 pro if I put the reading on continuous the target jumps all around in and partially out of the target's bulls eye while displaying a color. If you are using a spyder and different software the condition could be worse. The CIE diagram will still display correct but Delta E will very with the changes.

paulgyro

09-16-08, 04:15 PM

Hey all I just picked up this set and am enjoying it very much so far.

I'm following the Greyscale Calibration Guide and have a few quick questions that I've not found specific answers to read through the posts.

Under the "WB" section I see "R_Offset", "R_Gain", etc.

Is "Offset" the same as "LowEnd" and "Gain" the same as "HighEnd"?

Also I remember seeing the first line is "P.Mode = Dynamic". Is this something I need to change? I don't want dynamic anything I believe.

Thanks!
Paul

rahull

09-16-08, 07:44 PM

Golferdude

09-20-08, 08:57 PM

Well I saw Norman116 file that he had done for an HLS DLP and I used that format to put an excel spreadsheet to record your settings in the service menu for the HL61A750. I have three sheets in the workbook, the Srv Man Defaults, New (out of the box readings), and calibrated. On the New and calibrated sheets, you will need to change the values to what you have. I just copied the service manual default sheet over. The Srv Man Defaults are out of the Service Manual, which I recently bought. And as Norman said in his reply, if you use the "Track Changes" feature in excel you can trace what you have done.

Hopefully this will help someone not do what I did, change the readings and I didn't write the "out of the box" settings down.

mike_pro

09-25-08, 11:15 AM

Lots of great posts here by all!! I'd like to get a calibration guide together and add it to the 750 LED series FAQ. docrings, curttard, rahull, golferdude, scooter, anyone, would you guys be willing to help summarize your experiences, and write up a calibration guide for our sets?

Something similar to the guides Docrings wrote for the HL-S and HL-T models: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14280189#post14280189 (some of which may not apply to our sets).

I don't have too much experience doing an HCFR cal, but want to give it a try, and am kind of confused by all of the different procedures, and versions of information. Definitely seems like there are multiple ways to achieve the same results, (like calibrate Dynamic mode cool1vs. movie mode warm 2, do stuff in desaturation). It seems like different people have done it different ways, but achieve similar end products, so maybe we will end up with a couple of different methods.

Are you guys that did your own sets willing to write up/discuss your procedures so we can come up with a guide (or guides) we can add/link to in the 750 FAQ?

Thanks,

- Mike.

Golferdude

09-26-08, 11:42 AM

I would be happy to help however I can. I am still learning so not sure if I am at a point to put anything together.

I am just now getting into the service menu and figuring out what steps to take and when. But once I get a good result, I would be happy to share it.

B_Naughty

10-07-08, 07:01 PM

Fantastic thread! Thanks to everyone for posting advice and their personal experiences.

I've been trying to calibrate my HL61A750 as well. I got a Eyeone LT along with Digital Essentials HD basics Bluray, downloaded and burned the AVSHD709 Bluray formatted DVD and have been using HCFR to take readings with.

For my first attempt at calibration I only used the Greyscale & Colour Calibration for Dummies Guide. I managed to get my Greyscale spot on but got stuck when it came to getting my primaries and secondaries corrected. This was due to the fact that I didn't know what controls did what in the service menu.

Then I stumbled upon this thread and the steps people have been taking here. I've tried following some of the advice here, but I still can't get my colors right. Every time I try to dial in new settings to correct colors using the Desaturation menu it might get x and y closer on a couple of colors but it throws every other color off. Going back in to adjust for this simply throws the colors that were correct off as well. I must be missing something here.

Here are the steps I've been taking:

1)Calibrate greyscale with expert mode on (using Calibrated as user mode)
During greyscale calibration the only thing I'm adjusting is Contrast, Brightness, R_Offset, B_Offset, R_Gain and B_Gain.
2)Turn off CCA, record values using the first three test patterns in the service menu
3)Dial recorded settings into the CCA menu, turn CCA ON, Save and spread.
4)Take readings of primaries and secondaries using the second set of test patterns in the service menu. Note that I've been doing this with CCA and Desaturation ON.
5)Dial corrected numbers into Desaturation menu with CCA and Desaturation ON (I noticed that the Desaturation entries seem to take affect when you switch to a different option within the menu). I've got sRGB selected in the user menu, so these are the only numbers I adjust.
6)Go back and recalibrate greyscale.
7)Take readings of primaries and secondaries again and dial in corrections in the Desaturation menu.

Is calibrating greyscale first screwing me up? Another thing to note is that between calibration attempts I've been manually setting things back to defaults. Should I be using "factory reset" in the service menu instead?

Thanks ahead of time to anyone that has any advice or suggestions for me.

nicholc2

10-07-08, 09:14 PM

Is calibrating greyscale first screwing me up? Another thing to note is that between calibration attempts I've been manually setting things back to defaults. Should I be using "factory reset" in the service menu instead?

Thanks ahead of time to anyone that has any advice or suggestions for me.

Greyscale calibration and primary/secondary calibrations are independant of each other. One should not affect the other (or at least they shouldn't). I wouldn't do a factory reset. You never know what that's really going to change and that will reset everything. Not just CMS changes.

I haven't actually had a chance to calibrate one of these yet, but I have a friend that has the 550 and I will be calibrating his soon. I'm looking forward to it. If I have anything to add, I'll post it here.

scooper750

10-08-08, 06:44 AM

I'll beg to differ to what Nichol2 says only regarding these DLPs. Normally Grayscale and primary/secondaries calibration are independent of each other. Not the case with the Samsungs and their CCA system. I have not done a 750 yet but have done quite a bit of work with the 650s (which are the bulb based set). The CCA system in these Samsungs are implemented very well. Calibrate CCA first. Once you get CCA nailed you will find that you will have to make minimal changes (if any) to the WB (White Balance) menu. Here are a couple links. One for grayscale and 1 for CIE. This particular calibration was done strictly with CCA. No adjustments made to White Balance. The only thing these Sammy sets are missing is luminance control for the primaries / secondaries.

http://www.digitalvideocalibrations.com/calibrations/Cooper%20Samsung%20HL-61A650/Post%20Cal%20Grayscale%20Round%202.pdf

http://www.digitalvideocalibrations.com/calibrations/Cooper%20Samsung%20HL-61A650/Post%20Cal%20CIE%20Round%202.pdf

rahull

10-08-08, 07:49 AM

The steps I followed.

1 Set and spread CCA
2 Adjust grayscale in WB
3 Adjust gamut in DESATURATION

All measurements done in USER MENU after adjustment.

B_Naughty

10-08-08, 08:43 AM

Thanks scooper and rahull for the replies :D

I'll try setting everything back to defaults including my WB and start again.

Regarding the CCA adjustments. All I need to do is punch in the numbers taken from my readings without adjusting them first correct (so I wouldn't be putting in only a percentage of my readings)? I'm using HCFR so the Y reading looks to be displayed correctly (no need to multiply).

rahull

10-08-08, 09:55 AM

B_Naughty

10-08-08, 01:44 PM

One more quick question.

Is there a way to exit the service menu without powering off the TV?

Thanks...

rahull

10-08-08, 02:12 PM

One more quick question.

Is there a way to exit the service menu without powering off the TV?

Thanks...

Don't think so.

donb1948

10-08-08, 02:45 PM

Is there a way to exit the service menu without powering off the TV?

If you have a remote that can be programmed with "hex codes" (RTI, for example), then you can set up a couple of custom functions:

Macro 1: To Enter Service Menu: "Info" followed by "Service Menu".
Macro 2: To Exit Service Menu: "Service Menu" followed by "Service Menu".

"Info" hex code:
0000 006D 0000 0022 00AB 00AB 0014 0040 0014 0040 0014 0040 0014 0014 0014 0014 0014 0014 0014 0014 0014 0014 0014 0040 0014 0040 0014 0040 0014 0014 0014 0014 0014 0014 0014 0014 0014 0014 0014 0040 0014 0040 0014 0040 0014 0040 0014 0040 0014 0014 0014 0014 0014 0014 0014 0014 0014 0014 0014 0014 0014 0014 0014 0014 0014 0040 0014 0040 0014 0040 0014 0714

"Service Menu" hex code:
0000 006D 0000 0022 00AB 00AB 0016 003F 0016 003F 0016 003F 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 003F 0016 003F 0016 003F 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 003F 0016 003F 0016 0016 0016 003F 0016 003F 0016 003F 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 003F 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 003F 0016 003F 0016 0715

In other words, while the TV is on, simply invoke "Enter Service Menu". When you're done with the service menu, simply invoke "Exit Service Menu". Yes, exiting requires *two* invocations of the "Service Menu" code (to get past the infamous "aging" non-error code). One button press to get in, another to get out. Nothing could be simpler.

If you have a Logitech remote, such as the 880, sent an email to customer support and ask them to add these two code sets to your profile. After they are added to your profile, program them into your remote as separate soft buttons or as the soft button macros indicated above. If you program in two separate buttons, for example "Info" and "SM,' then to enter the service menu press "Info" followed by "SM," while the TV is on. To exit the service menu, press "SM" followed by "SM."

To learn more about this sort of thing, try visiting www.remotecentral.com.

Pasted from <http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7766442#post7766442>

PS. The "Info" code above is actually the same code as the "Info" button on the TV's remote. In reality, it's already in the Logitech database.

Golferdude

10-09-08, 08:14 AM

I have the i1pro and the HL61A750. When I calibrate it and use the windows to calibrate the i1 won't reach the center of the window. Is it important to be in the middle of the window? Is it better to calibrate using a window image or a full screen image? Is there a good place to find a longer rubber strap to hang the i1 with?

B_Naughty

10-09-08, 09:30 AM

I'm using an Eyeone LT which should be physically the same as the Pro. I have no problem getting it positioned anywhere on the screen when using it with a USB extension cable to my laptop.

When following a calibration guide it had me find the brightest spot on the screen to take readings from. For me this ended up being slightly below the center of the screen.

Regarding test patern windows. I've read guides that state windowed paterns are what should be used. I'm sure the pros here can comment on whether or not that's correct.

According to this thread it sounds like you want to use the full window paterns built into the TV when calibrating the CCA settings.

B_Naughty

10-09-08, 09:36 AM

Thanks Donb1948 for the settings for service menu access. Those will come in handy once I get a unirversal remote. Which should be soon since I'm getting sick of having to use 3 remotes just to watch TV!!

Golferdude

10-09-08, 09:53 AM

Guess I should of done a better job of explaining my issue, sorry for that. The problem I am having is when hanging the i1 on the screen, the rubber strap from the weight to the screen holder seems too short. When I hang the weight over the top edge towards the back then let the i1 hang down, it is positioned towards the top of the image window. What is the technique most are using when taking readings, on a tripod or hanging?

alwilli

10-09-08, 12:18 PM

I have used a tripod with the Spyder tripod suction cup adapter using a velcro strap as extra support insurance. Also, you can use the i1 suction cup mount with blue 3M painters tape criss-crossed for extra support.

Alvin

Halco

10-15-08, 03:53 PM

I have a spare LE that was calibrated by Avical and it eventually developed the shadow. Warranty replaced the LE and I purchased the calibrated LE to keep as a spare, which I then fixed the tunnel collapse. Before I removed the calibrated LE I did a Digital>DMD copy to preserve the calibrated settings. Now, my question is, if I have to install the old calibrated LE should I do a DMD>Digital copy? I would like some clarification as to what both functions actually do and what settings are changed? I don't want to lose the calibration of the spare LE.

nicholc2

10-19-08, 01:12 AM

I calibrated a 750 today. I gotta say, I'm pretty impressed. It turned out fantastic. From where it started, let's just let the measurements speak for themselves!

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee111/lishbabe13/HT%20Pics/Samsung67A750RGBBefore.jpg Notice blue is off the chart!!!
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee111/lishbabe13/HT%20Pics/Samsung67A750RGBAfter.jpg
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee111/lishbabe13/HT%20Pics/Samsung67A750CIEBefore.jpg
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee111/lishbabe13/HT%20Pics/Samsung67A750CIEAfter.jpg

What else is there to say!?

Lee Bailey

10-19-08, 09:38 AM

How did you perform it? What sensor are you using? What calibration software? That looks like HCFR.

nicholc2

10-19-08, 12:07 PM

How did you perform it? What sensor are you using? What calibration software? That looks like HCFR.

Yes, HCFR. i1Pro is the sensor I use.

pyromanfo

10-20-08, 04:25 PM

nicholc2

10-20-08, 04:46 PM

Does anyone know how to modify the gamma from the HLT service menus? My gamma is locked out at "OEM[4]" and I can't modify it. I've almost got my TV perfect except it's at a 1.8 gamma instead of 2.2 :(

Modifying the gamma in the user menu does not help? That's what I used for the one I calibrated this weekend.

pyromanfo

10-20-08, 04:51 PM

So maybe I'm confused here, but when I edit things in the service menu, it seems to be applied to the "Dynamic" mode, which does not let the user adjust "Detailed Settings" which is where the gamma is located in the user menu.

Is there a way to edit the "Normal" or "Movie" modes in the service menu?

nicholc2

10-20-08, 08:49 PM

Golferdude

10-20-08, 09:43 PM

I calibrated my 750 and my colors are close but have ups and downs along the 100 percent line. To get those closer do I have to just keep calibrating it?

djphatic

10-21-08, 02:01 AM

nicholc2

10-21-08, 02:06 PM

Excuse me for sounding dumb, but what is CCA? And where can it be found in the service menu? I am in the process of calibrating my samsung a786 and have looked around the service menu and cannot find a cca setting. I have been using the wb movie with the usual gain/offset controls.

Most all Samsung LCD and Plasmas do not have CCA in the service menu. Only the newest line have this available. CCA is the starting place for adjusting the color management system.

djphatic

10-21-08, 02:08 PM

CCA is the starting place for adjusting the color management system.

Is this accessible via the remote menu's? The A786 is a recent model, a month old if that. I have options for color space via the remote menu's but cannot see anything specific for color management in the service menu.

nicholc2

10-21-08, 02:27 PM

Is this accessible via the remote menu's? The A786 is a recent model, a month old if that. I have options for color space via the remote menu's but cannot see anything specific for color management in the service menu.

Are you sure you are in the SM? If so, what are all of the menus available for you there?

djphatic

10-21-08, 02:45 PM

Are you sure you are in the SM? If so, what are all of the menus available for you there?

Yes, with the TV switched off I press Info, Menu, Mute, Power On which enters service mode.

I then have the following options:

1 Option Table (Service)

2 WB Adjust
> Calibration
> White Balance
> EPA Standard
> Movie WB

3 Information

4 Advanced Menu
> MTK8226
} Cal. Adjustment
} Cal. Target
} Scart RGB
} TVD/Comb
} IPC/MJC
} Picture Enhance
> Option Block
} FBE3
} FRCM
} FRCM_ADV
} Pdp Logic
} Local Dimm
> SOUND
> YC Delay
> Adjust
> Bus Stop
> Defect Log

nicholc2

10-21-08, 02:53 PM

Yes, with the TV switched off I press Info, Menu, Mute, Power On which enters service mode.

I then have the following options:

1 Option Table (Service)

2 WB Adjust
> Calibration
> White Balance
> EPA Standard
> Movie WB

3 Information

4 Advanced Menu
> MTK8226
} Cal. Adjustment
} Cal. Target
} Scart RGB
} TVD/Comb
} IPC/MJC
} Picture Enhance
> Option Block
} FBE3
} FRCM
} FRCM_ADV
} Pdp Logic
} Local Dimm
> SOUND
> YC Delay
> Adjust
> Bus Stop
> Defect Log

Yeah, doesn't appear that your model has color adjustments in the SM. Just grayscale.

jkcheng122

12-19-08, 06:52 PM

so has the SM calibration guide for the 750/650 been written yet?

usace

01-10-09, 02:51 PM

so has the SM calibration guide for the 750/650 been written yet?

I too would love to see a calibration guide put together for the 750 LED DLP. There is a LOT of information spread out in several different threads on the topic, but I haven't come across a very detailed, step by step procedure. I've seen many posts where someone will list the steps they've used to calibrate only to see a response in the next post where someone else will correct the original poster and list new steps. Some mention calibrating in the dynamic setting while others use the movie setting. Some describe going in and out of SM many times to adjust and then take readings, while others say it's not necessary. I've seen some mention of using the expert mode, turning CCA on then back off, then back on again, etc etc. Needless to say my head is spinning a bit. If one of you gurus could put something together then I know there are a lot of us that would benefit from it and greatly appreciate it. :)

Lee Gallagher

01-10-09, 04:25 PM

The Samsung 750 series is not a good display for DIY'ers to learn/practice on. This set can be calibrated to perform very accurately, but only with the right test equipment. i.e spectroradiometer
And yes, there is a very specific way to calibrate these displays that differs from any other type of set.

Venture carefully, or better yet, hire a professional.

usace

01-11-09, 09:25 AM

Lee, thanks for the reply and the warning. I'm certainly not an expert, but have done some calibrations in the past with my EyeOne and HCFR on my old television (toshiba CRT RPTV). I just purchased a 67a750 and would like to do the same. After reading info from several different threads I understand the premise behind the 750 calibration... in CCA - measure initial colors, plug those numbers in, plug in the desired values, spread the values. Then adjust grayscale (should be minimal at this point) in WB.

I've seen that several people are having success with these sets with the same equipment I have, and am just looking for a more detailed, all-inclusive guide. THere are several of these guides in the calibration forum for other sets and it would be great to have one for the 750's (could include the 650's too if they aren't much different). I'd be happy to help someone more knowledgeable than I put one together and keep it updated. I just need that more knowledgeable person to help me out.

scooper750

01-17-09, 08:20 AM

And don't forget to put the the set in Expert Mode with PMode set to Movie or Calibration so that you don't have to keep poppin in and out of SM.

Unfortunately I don't really have much time to say sit down and write a guide on how to do these Sammys, but feel free to ask questions. I have posted quite a few tips/tricks regarding the A650s which should apply to the A750s. I haven't done a A750 yet, but have done quite a few A650s.

jrcorwin

03-10-09, 01:42 PM

Did anyone ever find a way to make the DB Aperture stay closed on the HL61A750?

jonbob7

03-14-09, 12:44 AM

Hi...I am new to these threads and was hoping somone could give me some help. I have a Samsung HL50A650 DLP and i can't figure out how to get the "Y" value adjusted down for Green and Blue. Can someone please tell me how to do this. Everything is close to perfect but that is throwing off my color.

Thank you!

Jon

scooper750

03-14-09, 08:34 AM

There is no luminance controls for the primaries / secondaries.

jonbob7

03-14-09, 08:15 PM

There is no luminance controls for the primaries / secondaries.

Thanks Stephen.....is there a way to bring these closer in line on the HL50A650? Red is good but the green and blue are off the charts. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Jon

kindi_boy

03-17-09, 10:51 AM

kindi_boy

03-22-09, 07:06 AM

would anyone please answer my question ?

jasonki32

03-22-09, 12:11 PM

would anyone please answer my question ?

Did you turn expert mode on in the SM?

Bill Mitchell

03-22-09, 12:49 PM

how does this guide fit the LNXXA650/750 ?
is this guide usable ?
if not, can someone point me at the right direction ?

i went to the SM couple of times but the 4-Advanced Service Menu
is always locked i can't get inside, does anyone know how to get into that menu?

I don't think much in this guide for the Samsung DLP is applicable to the new LCD models. For the LNxxA650/750, the color and grayscale controls are all accessible in the customer menus, without entering the service menu.

mkoreiwo

03-22-09, 04:02 PM

I don't think much in this guide for the Samsung DLP is applicable to the new LCD models. For the LNxxA650/750, the color and grayscale controls are all accessible in the customer menus, without entering the service menu.

Bill, does your reply mean/indicate that a professional ISF calibration does not go into the SM at all? That can't really be the case is it? I was considering going a pro ISF cal eventually, but if all they will do is the same as my twiddling.... I can't see paying for that!

They must use the SM for some things.... I would hope, for example, that my problems with red on the CIE gamut chart could be addressed, as well as some of the lower grayscale tracking. Unless I missed something in the subtext.

Mike

Gregg Loewen

03-22-09, 04:30 PM

Bill Mitchell

03-22-09, 04:36 PM

Bill, does your reply mean/indicate that a professional ISF calibration does not go into the SM at all? That can't really be the case is it? I was considering going a pro ISF cal eventually, but if all they will do is the same as my twiddling.... I can't see paying for that!

They must use the SM for some things.... I would hope, for example, that my problems with red on the CIE gamut chart could be addressed, as well as some of the lower grayscale tracking. Unless I missed something in the subtext.

Mike

Mike, the question is a little off the subject of this thread, being the Samsung DLP service menu, but since you ask:

I haven't seen any information yet that indicates any Samsung LCD service menu options that need to be used for a calibration. Helidoc, I believe, mentioned he has a service manual, but has not mentioned using the service menu for anything. The only hint I've seen is a suggestion somewhere that there might be an option that affects how big a change in gamma is made with each tick in the control. (I'm not counting the control of AMP in the service menu, as I don't use it much at all.)

I think the difference in a professional calibration is (1) it would be much more time efficient, as the DIYer learns by making his own mistakes, (2) it would be done with more accurate instruments, and (3) it might cover other environmental issues, e.g., lighting and audio, beyond the set itself. As a measure of the time I've spent, I have 260 HCFR files saved from measurements on my set and its 3 DVD sources. That's a lot of experimenting.

By the way, I think the limits on the primaries are just built into the sets, my guess is, built into the pixels of the LCD screens themselves. We can configure the set to be really close, but not perfect. And the grayscale is just a tradeoff, how much error can you accept where, e.g., how much color shift do you accept at the top, and do you try to push the error out of the middle by accepting a lot more error at the low end. Tom's comment (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16050970#post16050970) about the lump in the middle of his grayscale resembles a lot of my measurements. Here again, a professional should have more experience about what errors have visible effects, and what errors are more easily ignored.

mkoreiwo

03-22-09, 05:14 PM

Using experience and very expensive tools is hardly the same as "twiddling".

My apologies!:o I honestly would not equate what a pro does with what I might do!!

Actually Gregg - you cal'd a Hitachi SWX20B for me some years ago, and i recall you accessed a lot of the service menu. It took a lot of time - I sent out for pizza - and you were very concerned about getting it right. You did a phenomenal job! My question was in part, generated from that memory. That set looked fantastic - even up to this year when I retired it - still working, and looking good. (considering its age). Twiddling is what I do - not - certainly, what you do!

Mike

ChrisWiggles

03-22-09, 05:57 PM

Gregg Loewen

03-22-09, 08:32 PM

hi mike!!
no worries.
Chris has summed it up nicely.
Manufacturers are worried about having persons enter the SM. They quite often providing almost all the parameters in the user menus (or advanced user menus).

mkoreiwo

03-23-09, 07:55 AM

Mike, the question is a little off the subject of this thread, being the Samsung DLP service menu, but since you ask:

I haven't seen any information yet that indicates any Samsung LCD service menu options that need to be used for a calibration. Helidoc, I believe, mentioned he has a service manual, but has not mentioned using the service menu for anything. The only hint I've seen is a suggestion somewhere that there might be an option that affects how big a change in gamma is made with each tick in the control. (I'm not counting the control of AMP in the service menu, as I don't use it much at all.)

I think the difference in a professional calibration is (1) it would be much more time efficient, as the DIYer learns by making his own mistakes, (2) it would be done with more accurate instruments, and (3) it might cover other environmental issues, e.g., lighting and audio, beyond the set itself. As a measure of the time I've spent, I have 260 HCFR files saved from measurements on my set and its 3 DVD sources. That's a lot of experimenting.

By the way, I think the limits on the primaries are just built into the sets, my guess is, built into the pixels of the LCD screens themselves. We can configure the set to be really close, but not perfect. And the grayscale is just a tradeoff, how much error can you accept where, e.g., how much color shift do you accept at the top, and do you try to push the error out of the middle by accepting a lot more error at the low end. Tom's comment (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16050970#post16050970) about the lump in the middle of his grayscale resembles a lot of my measurements. Here again, a professional should have more experience about what errors have visible effects, and what errors are more easily ignored.

Sorry Bill, I saw the Topic name listed as "Samsung Service Menu Calibration Guide", and did not realize it was for DLP models.

And my questions came out of the time I have spent with my set trying to get the best pq I can. Specifically relating to the weakish red/green, and lower % rbg tracking performance in the grayscale. It was my hope that somewhere in the SM a professional could perhaps make an adjustment that I could not.

johnnyb05

06-16-09, 12:07 AM

sorry bill, i saw the topic name listed as "samsung service menu calibration guide", and did not realize it was for dlp models.

And my questions came out of the time i have spent with my set trying to get the best pq i can. Specifically relating to the weakish red/green, and lower % rbg tracking performance in the grayscale. It was my hope that somewhere in the sm a professional could perhaps make an adjustment that i could not.

1

krizage

06-22-09, 10:32 AM

Forgive me if this is in the wrong area, but I have a calibration issue that started after my son went nuts on the remote.
I have a Samsung plasma 50 inch PN50B450. Never had any problems with it, I calibrated it with using the regular menu.
My son got a hold of the remote and he pushes buttons like crazy. The TV was off so I didn’t worry about it too much. The TV came on and had a strange menu (after a little reading I am wondering if this is the service menu) appeared on the left side of the screen, it was a two column grid with words in some and characters in the other. When I realized what had happened the grid disappeared the words “HDMI …. (something)” appeared on the top left of the screen and then the colors started doing weird things.
The tv was cycling through a variety of colors. The image would have a strong tint in one color (blue, green, purple, red) and then it would fade back to more natural tones and then another strong tint.
I couldn’t get the tv to turn off or exit whatever it was doing. Eventually after many minutes (I was not timing) the tv just went black, not off, but black and it stayed like that for a while.
This is probably when I made the mistake. I could not turn the tv off, nothing would respond, so I unplugged it. I plugged it back in later and the tv is responsive to controls again, but the tint is off. I tried recalibrating it, but when I go through the contrast controls it the tinting changes like crazy.
I have it set pretty low right now so the colors like close, but it is obviously not perfect. My component inputs are okay. It is just the hdmi where I have this problem.
Sorry I don’t have any more information, but I hope you all can help me out

Krizage

yvos1

08-02-11, 05:00 AM

Hi Guys,

I hope you can help me out. I have an Samsung TV type: le37R72B and having huge overscan from my media center connected via HDMI.

The Media Center has an option to change the size (nvidia) and make it fit but this means not using the native resolution which is what I try to prevent.

In the normal TV menu I don't see an option to turn of overscan and in the service menu I don't have a glue what to touch.

Thanks for your help it's really appriciated.

Best Yuri

chruzek

08-06-11, 07:00 PM

alwilli

08-06-11, 09:32 PM

I figured out what controls luminance but never figured out what combination of adjustments would make it respectable. CBB, CRR, CBG, CRG (movie) is what you would adjust but they have a weird interactive behavior. If your overall Delta E's 94 are below 3, I would not worry about it.

Alvin

chruzek

08-11-11, 03:17 PM

Lee Bailey

08-11-11, 05:34 PM

I too would love to see a calibration guide put together for the 750 LED DLP. There is a LOT of information spread out in several different threads on the topic, but I haven't come across a very detailed, step by step procedure. I've seen many posts where someone will list the steps they've used to calibrate only to see a response in the next post where someone else will correct the original poster and list new steps. Some mention calibrating in the dynamic setting while others use the movie setting. Some describe going in and out of SM many times to adjust and then take readings, while others say it's not necessary. I've seen some mention of using the expert mode, turning CCA on then back off, then back on again, etc etc. Needless to say my head is spinning a bit. If one of you gurus could put something together then I know there are a lot of us that would benefit from it and greatly appreciate it. :)

The thread you can start with is in my signature below:
Or, go to this post in that thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=17538799&postcount=494