No EPG data yet for Discovery, TLC, Science or Animal Planet. MHD and Vs/Golf have EPG for right now but not going forward.

Good for you guys! More HD on more providers is good for everyone!

Yeah 7 new channels for us. Dish is getting better and better.

Looks like the Discovery channels are cropped on non-HD shows. Blech!

Nice to see.... While others talk about what they're planning to do, Dish is doing it.

Before leaving to work I checked the guide. I noticed the new channels but did not watch any of them.

Since E* got more channels, i'm sure other large DBS/Cable providers will want to catch up. So this is good for the HDTV industry.

Before leaving to work I checked the guide. I noticed the new channels but did not watch any of them.

Since E* got more channels, i'm sure other large DBS/Cable providers will want to catch up. So this is good for the HDTV industry.

The heck with the industry right now, its good for ME! :D :D :D

Comcast Sportsnet Chicago in HD is supposed to be up and running as well...

yes, its listed in the guide, but nothing is on right now..

Nice to see.... While others talk about what they're planning to do, Dish is doing it.

Please stop it. DirecTV is also *doing* it.

Congrats Dish!

Argh, and to think that I went to bed at 1am and didn't check them.

I'll have to wait until I get home.

Please stop it. DirecTV is also *doing* it.

Congrats Dish!

I think hall meant *doing* it without all the surrounding hype.

Please stop it. DirecTV is also *doing* it.

Congrats Dish!

I think what was meant is Dish has DONE it; DirectTV is still TALKING about what they are going to do....Until it actually appears, its still talk..

Do you think that if DirecTV wasn't talking about doing it, that Discovery would have even made these channels available.

conjecture and perception really do not have anything to do with reality..and, the reality is, that DISH has actually delivered the goods...when Direct TV actually does deliver the goods, they will be praised accordingly..

RHCP is on MHD, stunning!!

Looks like the Discovery channels are cropped on non-HD shows. Blech!
Please post reports on what programs are really in HD and what these channels do for the SD programs for those of us who do not have these channels yet. Are they really cropping the SD programs to 16:9 or are they (please, noooooooo!) stretching them?

I much rather see discussion on the new channels & their content which would be more useful than more pointless & off-topic for this thread D* versus E* posts. We have a new thread and it is already overrun by D* versus E* posts. Maybe we should kill this thread and start over?

Please post reports on what programs are really in HD and what these channels do for the SD programs for those of us who do not have these channels yet. Are they really croppimng the SD programs to 16:9 or are they (please, noooooooo!) stretching them?

I much rather see discussion on the new channels & their content which would be more useful than more pointless & off-topic for this thread D* versus E* posts. We have a new thread and it is already overrun by D* versus E* posts. Maybe we should kill this thread and start over?

Very true. I tend not to beleive that Discovery of all channels would crop and stretch 4:3. They are very good on their HD theatre channel. I'll be checking when I get home.

I wouldn't have thought so either, but I'm watching right now and it's very obvious since text on the bottom of the screen is just being chopped in half!

What are the new HD channel numbers? I assume all new additions are MPEG4?

The program I watched on Science Channel HD last night was cropped but not stretched. This became apparent when names were cut off from the bottom during the closing credits.

Also Guide data is up now.

What are the new HD channel numbers? I assume all new additions are MPEG4?

Please see the below two (2) quotes.

According to some postings at dbstalk ...
AT100 w/DishHD and above
- MHD: Music High Definition (MTV, VH1 and CMT videos in HD)
- Discovery HD (the regular channel in HD, in addition to Discovery HD Theatre)
- The Learning Channel HD

AT200 w/Dish HD and above
- Animal Planet HD

AT250 w/Dish HD and above
- The Science Channel HD
- Golf/VS HD (combined channel)


and the channel numbers are ...
MDH 9492
Science 9490
Golf 9468
Discovery 9487
TLC 9488
Animal 9489

They have added the new channels to their website.

http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/our_products/dish_hd/programming/index.shtml

Sorry if thats not much help. I used other peoples information, not mine.

Golf/Vs - 9468
MHD - 9469
Discovery - 9487
TLC - 9488
Animal - 9489
Science - 9490

Paging Gary Murrell! What's the resolution/bitrate?

Paging Gary Murrell! What's the resolution/bitrate?
ha, nice work.

Please post reports on what programs are really in HD and what these channels do for the SD programs for those of us who do not have these channels yet. Are they really cropping the SD programs to 16:9 or are they (please, noooooooo!) stretching them?



Out of the three I got with the lowest tier, Discovery HD and TLCHD seemed to be cropped. Like others said it was obvious with text and heads being cut out. This was last night for about 30 mins I was checking them out.
MHD did not look cropped but I am not sure it was HD. Compared to what was on Rave at the same time Rave looked better to my eyes so it may have been upconverted

Paging Gary Murrell! What's the resolution/bitrate?

You need to do the special Gary summoning ritual...

Just watching Haunting on Discovery HD and they are doing some panoramic kind of thing where the center of the screen is normal but as you move to the sides of the screen the picture gets more and more stretched. Looks very bad! Especially when people move side to side across the screen!

Just to clarify the cropping and/or stretching is only occuring on the NON-high def content, correct?

MHD did not look cropped but I am not sure it was HD. Compared to what was on Rave at the same time Rave looked better to my eyes so it may have been upconverted
MHD only shows HD material.

MHD only shows HD material.

True. If it's not an HD program (as in music videos NOT shot in HD), they are shown upconverted with 4:3 pillarbox bars - which, if memory serves, are actually dark gray.

Welcome to MHD, E* subscribers. Turn your MHD viewing into a drinking game. Drink every time they re-run Alicia Keys Unplugged, or the Pearl Jam and Green Day Storytellers installments. You should stay semi-permanently tanked! :D

Yeah, MHD needs some new programming.....stat!

Just to clarify the cropping and/or stretching is only occuring on the NON-high def content, correct?

I assume so. Haven't actually seen any HD content on the Discovery nets yet - but have not watched a lot yet either! Maybe HD will be a mostly prime time thing.

Please post reports on what programs are really in HD and what these channels do for the SD programs for those of us who do not have these channels yet. Are they really cropping the SD programs to 16:9 or are they (please, noooooooo!) stretching them?

I much rather see discussion on the new channels & their content which would be more useful than more pointless & off-topic for this thread D* versus E* posts. We have a new thread and it is already overrun by D* versus E* posts. Maybe we should kill this thread and start over?

so far from what I have witnessed, MHD is 24 hours in great HD, Science, Animal, TLC and Discovery are showing a little real HD programming and lots of widescreen SD. Golf/Versus has had nothing but 4:3 SD content so far.

Corwin's Quest on Animal Planet is in HD

so far from what I have witnessed, MHD is 24 hours in great HD, Science, Animal, TLC and Discovery are showing a little real HD programming and lots of widescreen SD. Golf/Versus has had nothing but 4:3 SD content so far.

have had VS/Golf HD via Comcast for a few months now. Virtually all programming there is SD/4:3.

If E* would carry my HD locals w/o an antenna, I'd likely jump ship (esp. with that "free" HDDVR).

have had VS/Golf HD via Comcast for a few months now. Virtually all programming there is SD/4:3

Really? Tomorrow and Friday it is showing early round golf tournament coverage in HD. I haven't had the channel but from what I've seen they've had quite a bit of golf in HD.

have had VS/Golf HD via Comcast for a few months now. Virtually all programming there is SD/4:3.

If E* would carry my HD locals w/o an antenna, I'd likely jump ship (esp. with that "free" HDDVR).

what about the America's Cup a couple of months ago....was it in HD? I would have liked to see that in HD but I only had Versus SD available at the time.

P.S.: I have also jumped the ship from Comcast to Dish and I have never looked back....

have had VS/Golf HD via Comcast for a few months now. Virtually all programming there is SD/4:3.

The Golf Channel shows Thursday/Friday coverage of almost all PGA Tour Events in HD (they use the equipment of the weekend broadcaster). They also have HD coverage of select LPGA and Champions Tour events. None of their studio shows, series, infomercials, etc are in HD.

Versus shows multiple NHL games during the season and almost every playoff game in HD. Also PBR (Bull Riding) events from this season, WEC (MMA/Extreme Fighting), and 2007 IAAF (Track and Field) World Championshipsfrom Japan will be shown in HD. Finally, there are some outdoors/hunting/fishing series that are shown in HD.

Versus HD Schedule (http://www.versus.com/nw/article/view/27854/?tf=nwArticle.tpl)

Paging Gary Murrell! What's the resolution/bitrate? They are 1440x1080i. Don't punish Gary by asking him to watch or look at such travesties. They are MPEG4, so direct bitrate comparisons to what everyone is used to aren't valid.

Please stop it. DirecTV is also *doing* it. What are the channel numbers on D* ?? I can't find 'em.

what about the America's Cup a couple of months ago....was it in HD? I would have liked to see that in HD but I only had Versus SD available at the time.

P.S.: I have also jumped the ship from Comcast to Dish and I have never looked back....

No...the America's Cup, The Tour de France, Big 12/Pac 10/Mountain West Football weren't/won't be in HD

Don't punish Gary by asking him to watch or look at such travesties.
Watch what? Don't you know E* is dead? ;)

I stand semi-corrected on Vs/Golf's HD programmng.

Then again, I only ever cruise past the channel. Sorry, golf fans, but I sit with George Carlin's opinion of televised links. "It's like watching flies f***."

No...the America's Cup, The Tour de France, Big 12/Pac 10/Mountain West Football weren't/won't be in HD

what a shame :(

Just watching Haunting on Discovery HD and they are doing some panoramic kind of thing where the center of the screen is normal but as you move to the sides of the screen the picture gets more and more stretched. Looks very bad! Especially when people move side to side across the screen!
OH GOD NO!!!!!!!! PLEASE NO MORE STRETCH-O-VISION. SAY IT AIN'T SO!!!!!!!

What are the channel numbers on D* ?? I can't find 'em.

I left Directv(after 10 years) for Dish 1 year ago figuring Directv would keep promising more HD channels as they have done for years and I was right. So far Dish gives results and Directv gives promises they haven't kept yet.

Please stop it. DirecTV is also *doing* it.

Congrats Dish!
Not yet they aint. If they are please tell me what the new channel numbers are so I can watch them.

1440 X 1080i is that HD-Lite? I've never seen HD-Lite in real life, but 16 x 9 is 1920 x 1080. Does that mean the whole width of the screen isn't completely filled? (I don't mean 4:3 SD on HD, I've seen plenty of that)

I left Directv(after 10 years) for Dish 1 year ago figuring Directv would keep promising more HD channels as they have done for years and I was right. So far Dish gives results and Directv gives promises they haven't kept yet.

OH NO! The P-Word! TWICE! :eek:

it's anamorphic. the 1440x1080 is stretched to 1920x1080.

I left Directv(after 10 years) for Dish 1 year ago figuring Directv would keep promising more HD channels as they have done for years and I was right. So far Dish gives results and Directv gives promises they haven't kept yet.
Give it a rest.

Directv has been saying all along that their new HD channels are coming in mid-September. Is it mid-Sept? Um.....NO. Is it Directv's fault it's not mid-Sept?. Geesh.

it's anamorphic. the 1440x1080 is stretched to 1920x1080.


It is not anamorphic. HD uses square pixels. What they do is scale down 1920 to 1440 and the receiver scales it back to 1920 on its output. That is why it was given name HD Lite as this process throws away pixels.

I'm eagerly anticipating mid-Sept and see what D* can offer us. I don't care what they say they're going to do. Actions speak louder than words.

Give it a rest.

Directv has been saying all along that their new HD channels are coming in mid-September. Is it mid-Sept? Um.....NO. Is it Directv's fault it's not mid-Sept?. Geesh.

Actually I never heard anything about mid-September 2007 when they starting promising back in 2005. In 2005 they said 2006. In 2006 they said 2007. In 2007 they say mid-September 2007. I hope Directv comes through for their subscibers. Competition helps everyone who is a fan of HD. I am not loyal to any one provider. The provider I will be most loyal to in the long run is the one that provides the most HD content with the highest picture quality. I believe this will be Verizon Fios. I've had Fios internet for over a year and Fios TV should be available in my area by early next year. I will probably make the jump for PQ alone and hopefully Verizon will add more HD channels because Dish and hopefully Directv by then will have added more channels. Golly Gosh.

OH GOD NO!!!!!!!! PLEASE NO MORE STRETCH-O-VISION. SAY IT AIN'T SO!!!!!!!
Caught the LATEST episode of Mythbusters on the new HD counterpart (1440x1080). Looked decent, but I only have a 22" monitor for viewing.

http://img475.imageshack.us/img475/197/mythbustersacz9.th.jpg (http://img475.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mythbustersacz9.jpg) http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/448/mythbustersbcw6.th.jpg (http://img299.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mythbustersbcw6.jpg) http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/8651/mythbusterscfx6.th.jpg (http://img299.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mythbusterscfx6.jpg)

OTOH, an old episode that aired earlier today looked like crap -- and CROPPED. Some of other older shows, and those presented in 4:3 on the SD channel, that I caught on the Discovery networks were also cropped and in "stretch-o-vision".

http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/15/poprockshdql2.th.jpg (http://img299.imageshack.us/my.php?image=poprockshdql2.jpg) vs. DVD http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/2312/poprocksdvddj7.th.jpg (http://img341.imageshack.us/my.php?image=poprocksdvddj7.jpg)

Guys anyone else live in the N.C area that subscribes to dish with the 250 package PLEASE tell me what channel Fox sports south is on lol. The dish channel listing has it on 420 but all my channels in that range are non existant until it gets to the Alt sports channels, I cant even tune to 420. Please fill me in if channels have moved or something.

Oh my channels jump from 407 to 444 everything in the middle is missing.

OTOH, an old episode that aired earlier today looked like crap -- and CROPPED. Some of other older shows, and those presented in 4:3 on the SD channel, that I caught on the Discovery networks were also cropped and in "stretch-o-vision".
Discovery HD is using stretch-o-vision for the older SD material?? AAAAIIIEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The bastards! The Dish subscribers who can get the channel should complain loudly to Discovery. I'm on Verizon Fios, so I can't say much until I see it for myself.

Guys anyone else live in the N.C area that subscribes to dish with the 250 package PLEASE tell me what channel Fox sports south is on lol. The dish channel listing has it on 420 but all my channels in that range are non existant until it gets to the Alt sports channels, I cant even tune to 420. Please fill me in if channels have moved or something.

Oh my channels jump from 407 to 444 everything in the middle is missing.

It is on channel 420, but is only available to PARTS of NC.
www.dishnetwork.com/content/whats_on_dish/programming_packages/channels/index.asp?NetwID=50256

Network: FOX SPORTS SOUTH

Channel Name: FOXS

Category: SPORTS

Description: FOX Sports South has exclusive coverage of the always-dynamic Atlanta Braves the Atlanta Hawks and the Charlotte Hornets. Plus this year, the newest NHL team skates on to FOXSS, the Carolina Hurricanes. FOX Sports South has collegiate coverage of baseball, basketball and football from the SEC, ACC and Southern Conferences. Additional programming includes coverage of southern fishing and hunting, WCW Wrestling and auto racing.

This channel may be subject to extensive blackouts of sporting events and other programming noted in the guide.

Satellite: 119

Channel: 420

Transponder: 10

You would have to call dish and see if you qualify. Do you get the 119 satellite?

Thanks for the fast reply but yea I do get the 119 sat. currently have the 250 package with HD and I live on the east coast of N.C. I know at one time I used to get it but havent seen it in a while and been seeing where alot of the RSN's have been going HD and just figure I would chk out the channel again and now its no where to be found on my lineup even when chosing all channels in the guide. Hmm got me boggled right now.

I hope Directv comes through for their subscibers.

It's not a matter of hope. It's going to happen.

Discovery HD is using stretch-o-vision for the older SD material?? AAAAIIIEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The bastards! The Dish subscribers who can get the channel should complain loudly to Discovery. I'm on Verizon Fios, so I can't say much until I see it for myself.


Actually it is not stretch-o-vision. They zoom in 4:3 material. There are small black bars on the sides. It is a lot better than stretching.

It's not a matter of hope. It's going to happen.

I don't think whats going to happen is going to be nearly as impressive as everyone things its going to be...

I don't think whats going to happen is going to be nearly as impressive as everyone things its going to be...

Judging by the channels which E* just added it would be hard to disagree. Most of these channels just don't have a lot of HD content. I hadn't looked closely at the D* additions but now I see half of them are premium channels and a couple others are of unknown quality.

Actually it is not stretch-o-vision. They zoom in 4:3 material. There are small black bars on the sides. It is a lot better than stretching.
Well, they do zoom in the 4:3 stuff, and thus some top and bottom info is missing. But the video looks stretched, or rather squished.

http://img365.imageshack.us/img365/8464/sursdip3.th.jpg (http://img365.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sursdip3.jpg) http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/343/surhdfu0.th.jpg (http://img126.imageshack.us/my.php?image=surhdfu0.jpg)

At least this isn't happening on the new, 16:9 material.
http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/7099/kalasdab6.th.jpg (http://img126.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kalasdab6.jpg) http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/8834/kalahdcl4.th.jpg (http://img329.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kalahdcl4.jpg)

Given that much of the content on the new HD channels is upconverted SD, what is the general opinion about the best way to display this? I see much criticism of "stretch-o-vision". Using the alternative, which is to display it as 4:3 HD, also causes complaints as many viewers don't believe it's HD because it doesn't fill their 16:9 screen. Discovery seems to be taking a middle-of-the-road approach, as mentioned by mad62 and CKNA above, by doing a bit of cropping and trying to fill the 16:9 screen without too much distortion. We will be living with compromises for the foreseeable future, until all content is produced in 16:9. In the meantime, what's the best compromise that will satisfy the majority?

Thanks for the fast reply but yea I do get the 119 sat. currently have the 250 package with HD and I live on the east coast of N.C. I know at one time I used to get it but havent seen it in a while and been seeing where alot of the RSN's have been going HD and just figure I would chk out the channel again and now its no where to be found on my lineup even when chosing all channels in the guide. Hmm got me boggled right now.


If you get 129 sat you should see FSN HD... Even if you don't see FSN south. Only problem is FSN HD has nothing on it unless there is a game.

Given that much of the content on the new HD channels is upconverted SD, what is the general opinion about the best way to display this? I see much criticism of "stretch-o-vision". Using the alternative, which is to display it as 4:3 HD, also causes complaints as many viewers don't believe it's HD because it doesn't fill their 16:9 screen. Discovery seems to be taking a middle-of-the-road approach, as mentioned by mad62 and CKNA above, by doing a bit of cropping and trying to fill the 16:9 screen without too much distortion. We will be living with compromises for the foreseeable future, until all content is produced in 16:9. In the meantime, what's the best compromise that will satisfy the majority?


I always assumed that was why disc was waiting to start the HD simulcast. Until they had enough HD material. Looks like they still don't.

Judging by the channels which E* just added it would be hard to disagree. Most of these channels just don't have a lot of HD content. I hadn't looked closely at the D* additions but now I see half of them are premium channels and a couple others are of unknown quality.

That...

...and that if you consider that many of D*s fabled 100 are going to be premium sports packages like ST, EI, and whatever else comes around, and with the exception of maybe a few HD channels that D* swindled into 'exclusive' agreements, you probably not going to see as huge of a differences between the two providers HD offerings as everyone thought they would.

MHD did not look cropped but I am not sure it was HD. Compared to what was on Rave at the same time Rave looked better to my eyes so it may have been upconverted


MHD only shows HD material.

Then if they have all HD it must have been that the show on Rave was of better PQ to my eyes. It was not a music video it was like a concert

:cool:

Many of the videos on MHD are upconverted.

Guys anyone else live in the N.C area that subscribes to dish with the 250 package PLEASE tell me what channel Fox sports south is on lol. The dish channel listing has it on 420 but all my channels in that range are non existant until it gets to the Alt sports channels, I cant even tune to 420. Please fill me in if channels have moved or something.

Oh my channels jump from 407 to 444 everything in the middle is missing.

I have AT250, and I'm in Raleigh. I get FSN South and the HD channel as well. SD is on 420, HD is on 370. Thus far everything on HD has been blacked out since just pro sports this summer... not sure why you wouldn't be seeing this unless you are somehow out of the FSN South zip code range?

There is a web site somewhere, I always forget, that you can put your ZIP and it tells you which FSN you should get. Maybe someone who knows that link will come along so you can verify what FSN you should be getting.

That...

...and that if you consider that many of D*s fabled 100 are going to be premium sports packages like ST, EI, and whatever else comes around, and with the exception of maybe a few HD channels that D* swindled into 'exclusive' agreements, you probably not going to see as huge of a differences between the two providers HD offerings as everyone thought they would.

All baseball and football in HD is a HUUUUUGE difference.

But DirecTV will have the bandwidth edge for the near future. Eventually, DiSH will probably catch up to that.

It is all good.

More HD for everyone.

In fact, DirecTV's September plans poked DiSH into these new channels. And DiSH and Cable having HD pushed DirecTV into the big investment of new satellites.

More HD for everyone.

Now, stop the petty squabbling, okay? This is a good time for us all.

All baseball and football in HD is a HUUUUUGE difference.

How so? Ifs its HD in an over-priced premium sports package, than its HD in an over-priced premium sports package. Not part of their basic HD offering at all. How is that a huge difference to the average HD customer?



Now, stop the petty squabbling, okay? This is a good time for us all.

No squabbling....just putting things in a healthy, realistic perspective.

I just wonder if there will actually be enough HD channels for DirectTV to captialize on their upcoming capacity advantage before Dish runs out of room. Dish still has room to spare and with 6 channels per TP, they can keep pace with D* for a while here.

Sure D* can tout the NFL:ST HD channels, but that only means so much. The rest will have to depend on other channels launching be the end of the year.

In fact, DirecTV's September plans poked DiSH into these new channels.

BS. This has already been answered in other threads.

It was just a question of when the Voom channels went MPEG4.

D* has 10 HD channels. E* has 38 - they didn't need any push from D* - E* has always been the HD leader and will be for some time. If anything E* has pushed D* to do something about their pathetic track record on HD ...

Ofcourse, D* announcing so many channels and getting into so many contracts is a good thing for all the consumers. We should complement D* for that ...

BS. This has already been answered in other threads.

It was just a question of when the Voom channels went MPEG4.

D* has 10 HD channels. E* has 38 - they didn't need any push from D* - E* has always been the HD leader and will be for some time. If anything E* has pushed D* to do something about their pathetic track record on HD ...

I respectfully disagree. E*'s position as the HD(-lite) leader has everything to do with pressure from DirecTV and their lucking into the opportunity to pick up the remains of Voom for pennies on the dollar.

Also, to be fair DirecTV has an additional 8 channels of HD LiL that E* doesn't have to worry about. I'm sure if there was a legal injunction barring DirecTV from offering HD LiL their lineups would be essentially the same now sans Voom.

I just wonder if there will actually be enough HD channels for DirectTV to captialize on their upcoming capacity advantage before Dish runs out of room. Dish still has room to spare and with 6 channels per TP, they can keep pace with D* for a while here.

Sure D* can tout the NFL:ST HD channels, but that only means so much. The rest will have to depend on other channels launching be the end of the year.

Well, DirecTV could certainly capitalize on their bandwidth advantage by blowing E*'s PQ out of the water. Also, I see the premium multiplex channels as an area where D* will very aggressive and E* will be reluctant to keep up.

I respectfully disagree. E*'s position as the HD(-lite) leader has everything to do with pressure from DirecTV and their lucking into the opportunity to pick up the remains of Voom for pennies on the dollar.

What does this have to do with the fact that E* has near 40 HD channels, D* has about 10, and that if your not into over-prices sports packages, you aren't going to see much difference between the two providers HD offerings REGARDLESS of all the hype?

I respectfully disagree. E*'s position as the HD(-lite) leader has everything to do with pressure from DirecTV and their lucking into the opportunity to pick up the remains of Voom for pennies on the dollar.

This is really getting silly. It's all about the numbers: D* has 10 HD channels. E* has 38 And yet you claim that DirectTV is somehow responsible for E*'s lead? Hmmm. Let's wait and see what D* does next month, but I somehow doubt that even then they'll catch up to E*.

Either way, the competition is good for all of us.

Well, DirecTV could certainly capitalize on their bandwidth advantage by blowing E*'s PQ out of the water..

This I don't think is going to happen quite that dramatically...

Also, I see the premium multiplex channels as an area where D* will very aggressive and E* will be reluctant to keep up.

However, this could...

They are expensive to carry, and E* has had issues with HBO in the past. E* is a notorious cheapskate where has D* has no problem spending money. However you can guarantee the costs to be passed directly back to the subscriber...

When it comes to the premiums, all you can expect is to get what you pay for...

What does this have to do with the fact that E* has near 40 HD channels, D* has about 10, and that if your not into over-prices sports packages, you aren't going to see much difference between the two providers HD offerings REGARDLESS of all the hype?

We'll see how wide the difference is an 3-4 weeks and how wide the difference is at the end of the year. Until then, I can't disagree that to the average joe it makes no difference that D* is getting where they going through long term strategic planning while E* got into their position through a lot of luck and some on the feet thinking.

I love this silly bickering!
I struggled with the decision on who to pick so I could dump Comcrap..For me, it was a no brainer..
Direct TV wanted 200 bucks for their HDDVR
Dish wanted NOTHING

Dish had 30 some hd channels NOW
We know how many Direct has NOW..

more hd is a good thing..

We'll see how wide the difference is an 3-4 weeks and how wide the difference is at the end of the year. Until then, I can't disagree that to the average joe it makes no difference that D* is getting where they going through long term strategic planning while E* got into their position through a lot of luck and some on the feet thinking.

Hey...if D*'s final deliverable is all that, I'll be the first to switch. But I do not think it is going to be that wide of a difference at all, and all signs are pointing to that...

But in the meantime, I'm not going to listen the disgruntled citizens of D*-nation touting the virtues of their companies business plan when the the business plan itself was intended to be a 'recovery' due to 'lack of' long term strategic planning to begin with. Thats just ridiculous.

Well, DirecTV could certainly capitalize on their bandwidth advantage by blowing E*'s PQ out of the water.

I think it's absolute naivete to think that DirecTV will use any of their new bandwidth to increase quality on current or future HD channels. They will save that bandwidth for new channels. There is NO way DirecTV (or Dish for that matter) will care enough about the relatively few who can appreciate the new bandwidth to use more bandwidth to improve PQ.

You must remember that those who frequent this, and other HD forums, and understand what more bandwidth means are a tiny minority. Most HD viewers will not see or care about the improved picture quality that many of us would appreciate with more bandwidth.

BTW, I assume you have HD DVD or BD. Would you say that movie for movie, HD DVD/BD PQ "blows E* or D* PQ out of the water"?

There's been some discussion as to whether the new Dish programming is mostly HD or mostly up-converted. I did a quick check using the EPG (electronic program guide) and it seems to be it's about 50-50 HD and SD upconverted.

It's very easy (usually) to tell if a program is HD as compared to SD upconverted: simply use the remote control when checking out a program, press the "info" button and read the description that appears on the screen. If the description includes "HD" then it is usually actually HD material; if it does not, then the material is up-converted. (I have seen a few programs where the description said "HD" but the material appeared to be upconverted SD.) On the new MHD programming, its pretty easy to tell when it's upconverted SD programming as compared to HD: the upconverted SD is pretty good, but the actual HD is excellent. I was pleasantly semi-amazed.

Regarding the issue of resolution, for most of us 1440/1080 is about all our TVs will show. If I'm correct, my Sony 34" XBR 910 shows about 1440/960, so I'm covered.

Regards,
Fitzie

Many of the videos on MHD are upconverted. Would one prefer the limited selection of HD videos, stretched or cropped or zoomed videos or upconverted ones ??

There's been some discussion as to whether the new Dish programming is mostly HD or mostly up-converted. Ummm, it's not Dish's programming, it's the network's. If D* or TWC or Comcast or whoever added the same channels, they wouldn't get special HD versions of the shows while E* has to show upconverted/stretched/zoomed SD versions.

My son has Animal Planet HD on right now, showing a Steve Irwin show, and the picture quality is really good. I can't say for sure if it's HD or not, but I suspect it is. It's my understanding that Discovery Networks (they own Animal Planet) has been using HD cameras for sometime for the day when full HD channels were available. We also had "How's It Made" on yesterday and my 8-year old son said "Yes !! How's It Made in HD !". :D

FWIW, just checked the guide and it does say "HD" for this Steve Irwin episode. Question is, if the network upconverts it to HD, do they call it HD or say nothing ? Just checked Animal Planet's programming up until 11pm tonight and they have EVERY show labeled as "HD". ???

I respectfully disagree. E*'s position as the HD(-lite) leader has everything to do with pressure from DirecTV and their lucking into the opportunity to pick up the remains of Voom for pennies on the dollar. Fair enough regarding the VOOM channels, so let's subtract 'em.... 38 - 15 = 23. Isn't 23 still more than 10 ?? :D
Also, to be fair DirecTV has an additional 8 channels of HD LiL that E* doesn't have to worry about. HD locals do NOT count, nor do regional sports channels in HD. Neither D* nor E* should count them in any marketing drivel, IMO.

Why don't they broadcast HD in 1920x1080 like cable companies do? I would love to have more HD on my cable system, but not at a resolution reduction.

They don't have the bandwidth. By cutting it down like they do, they can get more channels in. As much as people here whine over PQ, ask the average person who's considering HD service if they'd prefer (5) channels at "full" or "true" HD resolution or if they'd rather have ten, twenty or more channels at a reduced resolution. Outside of this forum, I assure you, quantity WILL win.

I respectfully disagree.

I guess you have no real rational for that - do you ?


E*'s position as the HD(-lite) leader has everything to do with pressure from DirecTV

I agree that D* always had the lead in HD-Lite and unfortunately E* is following them, in that regard.

Fair enough regarding the VOOM channels, so let's subtract 'em.... 38 - 15 = 23. Isn't 23 still more than 10 ?? :D
HD locals do NOT count, nor do regional sports channels in HD. Neither D* nor E* should count them in any marketing drivel, IMO.

Don't forget about the transponder capacity from Voom. Without the Rainbow 1 satellite, Dish HD as you know it couldn't exist.

As much as people here whine over PQ, ask the average person who's considering HD service if they'd prefer (5) channels at "full" or "true" HD resolution or if they'd rather have ten, twenty or more channels at a reduced resolution. Outside of this forum, I assure you, quantity WILL win.
Sadly, I agree.

Thank goodness for BluRay.

Would one prefer the limited selection of HD videos, stretched or cropped or zoomed videos or upconverted ones ??

I was just responding to a comment that everything on MHD is HD. It is not. No need to blow things out of proportion. :rolleyes:

Don't forget about the transponder capacity from Voom. Without the Rainbow 1 satellite, Dish HD as you know it couldn't exist.

So true, so true...that was the smartest move E* could have made....definitely a very smart move, definitely very strategic. Wouldn't call it luck. After all, anyone could have bought it...someone at E* knew it would be a wise move.

Because of that rainbow1 they could remain competitive in HD this whole time, while the competition floundered over bandwidth problems, aging fleets of satellites, etc...all due to thier LACK of strategic thinking. And the only way they could keep their subs loyal was to throw them a bone. a 'promise' to keep them patient and loyal which they are to this day.

Fact: Rainbow1 gave E* subs HD channels to enjoy.
Fact: D*'s 'promises' gave D* subs nothing for two years but hope.

I don't understand how D*'s plan of keeping their subs loyal for two years with a 'promise' is brilliant, whereas E*'s business plan of buying a satallite is luck!

I think most business folks would agree, its pretty much the other way around.

Well said, vampz. :cool:

Seems to me the bottom line is that E* without a doubt has more HD currently than D*.

Aside from 16 days out of the year with the Sunday Ticket, D* HD offerings are the same if not less than some of the worst cable providers. Dish has added more HD while Directv is talking about adding more.

Dish has added new HD channels as they have become available to this point and personally I doubt it will change. I look forward to the total HD HBO suite coming up once HBO is ready for them. Directv has been talking about a future when they add new HD channels. Just as their commercials show movies of the Past talking about their future, no one there seems to want to live up to the present.

Sounds alot like what happened between two other satellite companies where the underdog made the right deal at the right time with a certain radio personality. Dishnetworks PROVEN commitment to HD is what will drive them into the future over Directv. Once those Directv service contracts expire how many will stay and how many will look for more hd with Dish?

I was just responding to a comment that everything on MHD is HD. It is not. No need to blow things out of proportion. :rolleyes: You took my post the wrong way..... I was only commenting that I doubt there's too many true HD videos available and IMO, upconverting is the best option for the time being.

I don't understand how D*'s plan of keeping their subs loyal for two years with a 'promise' is brilliant, whereas E*'s business plan of buying a satallite is luck!

I think most business folks would agree, its pretty much the other way around.

Actually... if you think about it from a business perspective... if you can keep your customers loyal to you with simply a "promise" and not actually spending money or improving... then your profit margin should be higher, and that would be brilliant.

That said... I find it interesting how things turn. When DirecTV announced the new Discover/Animal Planet/TLC/etc HD channels people said "ooh, what will Dish do"... so now Dish has added them before DirecTV without much bragging... and some of those same people say "yeah, but it isn't real HD". So... if DirecTV had these channels first would it be HD then?

Also... the whole notion that DirecTV is the "HD leader" by "pushing" Dish who has been in the lead for years... is borderline insane. Dish leading in HD for the last couple of years is what finally pushed DirecTV to start hyping their satellite launches.

And the "luck" of Rainbow1... So... if DirecTV had thought to bid and purchase that satellite and take Voom would it have been good then? Somehow I suspect DirecTV apologists would be saying how brilliant they were if that had happened... Meanwhile, Dish saw an opportunity and mad a great deal for new channels and extra capacity... and DirecTV sat and spun.

I think some of this is just jealousy... like how people hate Duke in basketball or UCLA back in the day... or people used to hate the Lakers & Celtics when they were dominating... People like to take others down to feel better, and hate the consistent leaders. DirecTV people trying to insult Dish is actually a form of flattery when it comes down to it because it shows their envy.

And the "luck" of Rainbow1... So... if DirecTV had thought to bid and purchase that satellite and take Voom would it have been good then? Somehow I suspect DirecTV apologists would be saying how brilliant they were if that had happened... Meanwhile, Dish saw an opportunity and mad a great deal for new channels and extra capacity... and DirecTV sat and spun.
Not true. D* didn't make a bid for the satellite because they already had 4 brand new birds being built (5, if you count the ground spare). Why would they buy a used bird when they would soon be launching birds they had a contract to pay for?

The fact is, E* did have a run of good luck. Voom failed and E* was able to grab up their assets. D* was in process of being sold and had to sit on its hands while multiple bidders made their moves. In fact, seeing as it had no chance of approval, you might even say E*'s bid only helped delay D*'s chances of moving forward faster.

As far as those channels, would I prefer that D* had them? Sure. I call BS on anyone who wouldn't want more outlets for HD. I'm just not overly excited about E* adding them because I know D* will have them in short order. At this point, there's no reason to consider switching between the two providers. Too much flux is in play right now.

However, don't tell me it wasn't luck that helped E* along. In the end, it was good timing for E* and bad timing for D*.

I'm happy for E* for getting temporarily ahead, but they will very soon lose that lead. That doesn't mean D* will somehow surge ahead, either. It just means that, unless one or the other greatly increases quality, there won't be a compelling reason to choose one over the other. They'll be essentially equal. Only subscription and "bonus" content will provide any real option for customers.

This thread is supposed to about the new Dish channels. And all the Dish fanboys want to do is rail D* for making promises.....blah blah blah. In a month when D* has more HD will you be singing the same tune? Bottom line - competition between providers is a good thing. E*, D*, cablecos - keep pushing each other and we'll get the quantity we want, but don't forget quality.

Meanwhile, Dish adding these new channels is awesome. Sounds like the PQ is pretty good, cool. Since they moved Voom to MPEG4 has there been any noticeable change in SD quality? Or would that not have any effect anyway?

Actually... if you think about it from a business perspective... if you can keep your customers loyal to you with simply a "promise" and not actually spending money or improving... then your profit margin should be higher, and that would be brilliant.

That would be two things from a business perspective: Desparate, and Lucky...:D

Actually I never heard anything about mid-September 2007 when they starting promising back in 2005. In 2005 they said 2006. In 2006 they said 2007. In 2007 they say mid-September 2007.

This is untrue. In 2004 they said "2007" and it was never moved up.

Let's stick to the E* channels on E* and leave out the D* vs. E* barbs in this thread.

I just want to add my 2 cents in before this thread does hopefully go back to E* HD channels. I first got into this thread to see what people were saying about what the programming looked like.

It doesn’t matter if E* pushed D* or D* pushed E* or cable pushed E* and D*. The simple fact is from a satco perspective, E* beat D* to the punch. Good job to E* and good for you E* subs. I am a D* sub and it doesn’t bother me at all that E* had these channels first. I think it’s pretty childish to get into this “my daddy hit a home run.” “Oh yeah, well my daddy hit a grand slam.” Yeah, that’s pretty much what this thread has turned into.

Plain and simple E* has these channels active right now and D* doesn’t. There really is no other way to spin it. D* might have contracts in place for them, but are they live? No. Will they be? If everything goes well with D10 they will be. But c’mon, give credit where credit is due.

If you are jealous that E* has them right now and D* doesn’t then be. I’ll admit I’m jealous. But at the same time I’m not going to act like the provider that I pay for is always best no matter what the circumstances are. (See daddy reference above)

If you want to talk about who is the HD leader in terms of channels, which provider has the most HD channels right now? E*. Which provider has the promise of the most HD channels? TW or Comcast based on 500 and/or 800 channels. Now I know that number is inflated due to VOD but still.

So in closing, if you are an E*, D*, or cable fan boy, let the other providers customers enjoy it while they can. Chances are it’s going to change. You wouldn’t want someone from E* (for example) coming into a D* thread making all these crazy claims.

Well said MX. I concur completely.

BS. This has already been answered in other threads.


Nice selective quoting. I was saying that COMPETITION is good for both providers. If you think that isn't the case, then you are totally lost. Why do you even think DiSH was spending the money on converting to MPEG4? Just for the good of all? Nope. Cause they knew they needed to stay in the game or try to stay ahead of the game.

The providers are taking different approaches the concept of giving their customers and advantage or at least not be at a disadvantage.

Sorry you don't understand how business works. If there was no incentive to increase the HD channels, then neither DiSH nor DirecTV would do so. The incentive is to sell programming. And if you fall too far behind, you won't sell as much.

So, a post that was COMPLIMENTARY to both services you turned into a "whose is bigger" competition.

Good work.

...The fact is, E* did have a run of good luck. Voom failed and E* was able to grab up their assets. ...

If you look at how differently E* and D* operate, then it is less of a luck rather the result of business approach.

D* had in the past always tried to play safe, avoid litigation by paying the fees, not saying much until things actually became available. Which was why D* has lately become a target because they suddenly changed their normal pattern and started aggresive on making promises, or taking risks, something they were not so good at doing in the past.

Charlie being a gambler in trade always took risks, he lost many and won many, the latest losses and success in court battles are example of how he operates. So it may seem luck to you it is more the result of his approach, very different.

D* would not have waited for the Rainbow bird to become available in the first place. E* could easily decide to lease a few birds to more quickly respond to something.

[QUOTE=CPanther95]This is untrue. In 2004 they said "2007" and it was never moved up.

Directv press release Jan 6 2005: "Will be used by Directv to expand its video offerings by launching hundreds of local and national HD channels later this year and in 2007". So they were promising back in 2005. I would call periodically to customer service reps and customer retention in 2005 and they would say it was pushed back to 2006. And so on... I know what I went through!

I bought the original RCA dish and box back in the mids 90's for $699. I turned many people on to Directv over the years. I bought my first HD Toshiba widescreen back in 1999 when there was very little HD content. I would watch local HD loops over and over just to see HD. I have followed the progress of HD programming over the years. I will continue to praise those who provide it and frown upon those who don't. As I have said I think competition is good for all fans of HD.

CPanther: You well know that any E* topic or D* topic will always contain comments about the other. This will only change when both carry all HD channels available. And we all want that day to happen sooner rather than later.

This is untrue. In 2004 they said "2007" and it was never moved up.

Directv press release Jan 6 2005: "Will be used by Directv to expand its video offerings by launching hundreds of local and national HD channels later this year and in 2007". So they were promising back in 2005. I would call periodically to customer service reps and customer retention in 2005 and they would say it was pushed back to 2006. And so on... I know what I went through!
Right - and in that time period they did add HD locals as well as (if I remember correctly) Universal HD. They may have added something else in there, too.

However, their plan has always been for the major rollout to be 2007.

Actually... if you think about it from a business perspective... if you can keep your customers loyal to you with simply a "promise" and not actually spending money or improving....You are severely confused.

My best guess is that D* has spent between $100 & $200 million per each of the two new HD sats. The problem as some see it, is the length of time to get them operational, which is really beyond their control. The only thing that could have change that was ordering the new sats earlier, but remember this took place around the time Voom was floundering and it would have been seen by industry analysts (re: stock prices) as a real crap shoot to commit that much money to more HD, that much earlier than D* did.

I still give E* lots of credit for doing the Rainbow deal, which has been a major advantage for the last few years. Now the shoe is on the other foot.

Charlie being a gambler in trade always took risks, he lost many and won many, the latest losses and success in court battles are example of how he operates. So it may seem luck to you it is more the result of his approach, very different.
Speaking of which. There were some very informative court cases posted today in this very forum.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=838060&page=246&pp=30

I'm switching to sat and was on the fence about which service to join but eventually sided E* for all the obvious reason. Besides the free DVR and HD lineup it seems to me that charlie delivers on what he promises. I can't go with a service I can't trust. All the whining from the D* subers did nothing to convince me to pick up D*, in fact it did quite the reverse.

Headline snapshots from some of the articles in the above link.
The Business of Television
Court Sides with Comcast in Ad Flap
DirecTV Loses Twice in False-Advertising Suits Related to HDTV
By Jon Hemingway Broadcasting & Cable 8/17/2007

A U.S. district court ruled in favor of Comcast and against DirecTV in two lawsuits on false advertising.
And...
The Business of Television
Judge Bars DirecTV From Running Anti-Cable Ads
Comcast Wins Preliminary Injunction Against Satellite Rival
By Linda Moss Multichannel News 8/17/2007

A federal judge issued a preliminary injunction barring DirecTV from airing TV ads that make claims regarding the supposed preference of consumers and home-theater installers for satellite TV’s picture quality.

Right - and in that time period they did add HD locals as well as (if I remember correctly) Universal HD. They may have added something else in there, too.

However, their plan has always been for the major rollout to be 2007.

Unfortunately in my case I receive Local OTA with great reception which is as good as it gets, so that left me with Universal HD.

Ofcourse, D* announcing so many channels and getting into so many contracts is a good thing for all the consumers. We should complement D* for that ...

no, let's compliment them instead.

(ducking)

Not true. D* didn't make a bid for the satellite because they already had 4 brand new birds being built (5, if you count the ground spare). Why would they buy a used bird when they would soon be launching birds they had a contract to pay for?

Hmm.. how about for the same reason Dish did... much cheaper to buy a bird already in the sky than to build and launch one.. I just don't see how Dish can be bashed for making a good business decision on Rainbow1.

However, don't tell me it wasn't luck that helped E* along. In the end, it was good timing for E* and bad timing for D*.

Using that broad of a definition of luck, almost anything positive that happens to any company could be classified as the result of luck. How about the recent "luck" of the exploding rocket that delayed DirecTV and Dish new launches... this ultimately benefits DirecTV because DirecTV still got one satellite up this year while Dish has not and is pushed into next year... so if you want to say luck happened to Dish with Voom, then you have to say luck happened to DirecTV with Dish being pushed out to next year with a launch they had wanted to do this year.

There's also something to be said for making your own luck. Dish seems to do a lot of making their own luck, and at some point you can't keep calling it luck without giving Charlie and Co some credit.

I'm happy for E* for getting temporarily ahead, but they will very soon lose that lead. That doesn't mean D* will somehow surge ahead, either. It just means that, unless one or the other greatly increases quality, there won't be a compelling reason to choose one over the other. They'll be essentially equal. Only subscription and "bonus" content will provide any real option for customers.

Ultimately I agree, which is why I don't see why the DirecTV folk come into a thread about new Dish channels to hassle us.. I don't go into the DirecTV threads and hassle those folk there. I just reply when they come in these Dish threads.

You are severely confused.

My best guess is that D* has spent between $100 & $200 million per each of the two new HD sats. The problem as some see it, is the length of time to get them operational, which is really beyond their control. The only thing that could have change that was ordering the new sats earlier, but remember this took place around the time Voom was floundering and it would have been seen by industry analysts (re: stock prices) as a real crap shoot to commit that much money to more HD, that much earlier than D* did.

I still give E* lots of credit for doing the Rainbow deal, which has been a major advantage for the last few years. Now the shoe is on the other foot.

And yet... during that same time period Dish somehow found a way to have more bandwidth available to HD and add more HD channels. Luck only takes you so far. I just find it increasingly amusing how DirecTV folks find new ways to criticize Dish for being better than them at something.

Frankly, I don't see what the fuss is about. If you are with DirecTV and believe their marketing about "coming soon" HD... then you should have no reason to be jealous or bash Dish. If you don't believe DirecTV marketing, then that's no reason to bash Dish either.

The model of business Dish chose to run with resulted in more HD... as of today, DirecTV is still talking and not doing. Dish is doing and not talking. I prefer all the channels I can watch to those vaporware ones that may or may not be on DirecTV "soon".

I'm sure DirecTV will catch up to Dish at some point. I just don't get all the hostility towards Dish for being good at something.

It appears E* will launch The History Channel HD on 9/5.

Since E* added the 6 new HDs before changing the 10 VOOM HDs from Mpeg2 to Mpeg4, it seems to me the BD saved from the VOOM format change alone could free some more room for at least 10 more new HDs?

"Will be used by Directv to expand its video offerings by launching hundreds of local and national HD channels later this year and in 2007".

Exactly.

Unfortunately in my case I receive Local OTA with great reception which is as good as it gets, so that left me with Universal HD.

The fact that you didn't need or want any of the channels added doesn't have anything to do with them not keeping to their press release.

Exactly.



The fact that you didn't need or want any of the channels added doesn't have anything to do with them not keeping to their press release.

You definitely have more patience the last couple of years than I did. I just couldn't wait any longer. I have been able to watch of lot of quality HD in the last year and I am glad I did what I did. My future loyalty will be with the provider that has the best combination of channels and PQ. I firmly believe that will be Fios in the long run. If it happens to be E* or D* I will go with them. The indisputable fact on 8/17/07 is that E* is the provider that has the most HD content. PQ goes to Fios but it is unavailable in my area till early 2008.

You definitely have more patience the last couple of years than I did. I just couldn't wait any longer. I have been able to watch of lot of quality HD in the last year and I am glad I did what I did. My future loyalty will be with the provider that has the best combination of channels and PQ. I firmly believe that will be Fios in the long run. If it happens to be E* or D* I will go with them. The indisputable fact on 8/17/07 is that E* is the provider that has the most HD content. PQ goes to Fios but it is unavailable in my area till early 2008.


I totally 100 percent agree with you...for what thats worth....

And yet... during that same time period Dish somehow found a way to have more bandwidth available to HD and add more HD channels. Luck only takes you so far.The luck for Dish was that Voom went belly up. If that hadn't happened, the HD landscape would be entirely different. Who knows what would have happened? Would Dish have bought new sats, probably, but how many and when would they have been operational? When would DirecTV have decided to buy new sats, and how many? Way too many variables to say for sure.

I have no hostility about Dish, and was a sub for many years. Like I said above: I still give E* lots of credit for doing the Rainbow deal, which has been a major advantage for the last few years. And, it most probably contributed to D* & cable upgrading the way they have. It's all good.

I just don't get the hostility on either side. The two companies took different approaches that fit where they were and what was available to them. Yes, DiSH got a jump with Voom (which many customers didn't care about) but now they are utilizing the bandwidth more traditionally with the MPEG4 conversion.

Good for them.

And DirecTV decided to launch its own birds that would take a bit longer but will give them even more bandwidth for some amount of time. No matter who you "side" with, many of the programming sources jumped when DirecTV announced the new bandwidth. There was an immediate impact in terms of what is coming available (like Sci Fi, all the HBOs, etc.) Maybe that impact wouldn't have been as great without DiSH adding more capability within its current infrastructure as maybe the two outlets were enough to make a difference to programmers but DiSH's HD sure wasn't making news and enticing programmers to expand their HD very much. (Cable is way behind on this front until Comcast makes a move and Fios is having zero impact as they are adding nothing despite having bandwidth.)

Now, DiSH will add more capabilty with new satellites (though I understand that to be locals, mostly, right?) so the "battle" continues. Good.

What I can't stand about some of these new channels is that they are not full screen. Why even bother adding them?

What I can't stand about some of these new channels is that they are not full screen. Why even bother adding them?
Do you want SD programming to take up the entire screen? Or do you like side bars?

The luck for Dish was that Voom went belly up. If that hadn't happened, the HD landscape would be entirely different. Who knows what would have happened? Would Dish have bought new sats, probably, but how many and when would they have been operational? When would DirecTV have decided to buy new sats, and how many? Way too many variables to say for sure.

I have no hostility about Dish, and was a sub for many years. Like I said above: I still give E* lots of credit for doing the Rainbow deal, which has been a major advantage for the last few years. And, it most probably contributed to D* & cable upgrading the way they have. It's all good.

I was never a Voom customer, though I looked into it when they started. They were mainly a poorly timed and badly run venture as a stand-alone service. They first misjudged the market at that time for HD content (simply not enough HDTV owners to support Voom)... then they tried to be something to everyone by carrying some SD, but their package prices were high compared to Dish or DirecTV for those same SD.

I think they had something close to 50,000 subscribers at the time.. which just couldn't carry the day. I have wondered, "what if" Voom had not launched then and spoiled the market for a new venture... but had waited and launched this year, as an example. I don't know if they would still make a viable 3rd choice but I'm sure they could have had a much better shot with today's HD market.

I think the luck applies both to DirecTV and Dish, for if Voom had stayed around and improved in quality and continued to add new HD... they may have been a thorn in both Dish and DirecTV's sides.

An opinion post in re: Voom marketing.

If Voom had in fact created its channels in the manner they did, and then marketed to E*, D* and the cableco's for distribution (using the Rainbow satellite) then everyone would be able to experience Voom. Trying to create a separate distribution mechanism via satellite was the crucial area in which Voom erred, because as someone has pointed out herein the critical mass for HDTV only programming had not been reached. The provision of Voom programming to the cableco's now is interesting, but certainly a positive step for the consumer.

Regards,
Fitzie

I may be wrong but, I thought VOOM was available to any provider but they had to agree to carry "all" the VOOM channels. I don't think that VOOM was exclusive to E*.

You definitely have more patience the last couple of years than I did. I just couldn't wait any longer. I have been able to watch of lot of quality HD in the last year and I am glad I did what I did.

My patience was more influenced by financial reasons. If I were signing up for the first time in 2005, I'd have jumped on E* without hesitation knowing I could switch to D* later. But with a house packed full of D* equipment that E* couldn't swap out without a second mortgage, I had no choice but to wait for their distant HD expansion.

I don't think that VOOM was exclusive to E*.It's not.

The luck for Dish was that Voom went belly up. If that hadn't happened, the HD landscape would be entirely different. Who knows what would have happened? Would Dish have bought new sats, probably, but how many and when would they have been operational? When would DirecTV have decided to buy new sats, and how many? Way too many variables to say for sure.

I have no hostility about Dish, and was a sub for many years. Like I said above: I still give E* lots of credit for doing the Rainbow deal, which has been a major advantage for the last few years. And, it most probably contributed to D* & cable upgrading the way they have. It's all good.

The rainbow deal had nothing to do with the capacity they gained at 129 and 118.7. Not to mention the business leases they are doing on 105 and 121. Dish just seems more willing to take risks and put together a "good enough" solution as opposed to the Directv long term carefully planned strategy. Sometimes it works (the 129/61.5 HD solution), sometimes it doesn't (anyone remember the HD plans for the superdish??).

I am not with D* or E* at the moment. I am with a cable company whose HD offering is considerably worse than either satellite provider's. The reason I have not picked one of the satellite provider's services yet is because it is the wrong time to do so.

I am very glad that E* got the channels up and going on their service, but claiming some kind of victory at this point is short-sighted. D* said 2007 all along. E* said very little, if anything. Speculators on boards have made all kinds of guesses but those were not D* promises.

By the end of September, I will be a customer of one of the sat providers. I will pick the one that has the most channels I want to see. Until then, this is like a post-game show a month before kickoff.

I may be wrong but, I thought VOOM was available to any provider but they had to agree to carry "all" the VOOM channels. I don't think that VOOM was exclusive to E*.

I think that's correct, though the precise terms of the transfer of distribution rights to E* did not encompass the immediate transmission (carriage) of all VOOM channels available at the time. If I recall correctly, there were 20 or 21 VOOM channels, and E* picked up 10 of them immediately and 5 later. The other 5 or 6 were "merged" some way or other into the 15 that E* now carries.

However, I was really trying to make the point that marketing the VOOM channels was handled in a maladroit manner since it was done as a direct challenge to E* and D*, and also to the cableco's. I haven't looked closely at the D* HD expansion: will they carry VOOM? Does anyone care?

Regards,
Fitzie

Dish just seems more willing to take risks and put together a "good enough" solution as opposed to the Directv long term carefully planned strategy. Sometimes it works (the 129/61.5 HD solution), sometimes it doesn't (anyone remember the HD plans for the superdish??).

In 2000 (or '99) all internationals used to be on D*. The company that was marketing all these channels went bankrupt. D* dropped the channels.

E* bought that company and put the internationals on E*. They have greatly expanded the lineup since then - and because of that they got exclusive market of all people who want to want internationals. That must be good business - since now D* is picking up many smaller internationals that E* hasn't picked up and come up with their own international package.

I'd say D* is risk-averse rather than saying they do careful longterm strategic planning.

I am not with D* or E* at the moment. I am with a cable company whose HD offering is considerably worse than either satellite provider's. The reason I have not picked one of the satellite provider's services yet is because it is the wrong time to do so.

I am very glad that E* got the channels up and going on their service, but claiming some kind of victory at this point is short-sighted. D* said 2007 all along. E* said very little, if anything. Speculators on boards have made all kinds of guesses but those were not D* promises.

By the end of September, I will be a customer of one of the sat providers. I will pick the one that has the most channels I want to see. Until then, this is like a post-game show a month before kickoff.

If I had waited on directv a year ago until now I would have missed out on alot of good HD.

you guys are too funny :p

I must say that if I get wind of a HD-Lite history channel coming to Dish, my beliefs and principals might be threatened because History channel rules ;)

-Gary

I must say that if I get wind of a HD-Lite history channel coming to Dish, my beliefs and principals might be threatened because History channel rules ;)

Latest word is... Sept 5th for History HD on Dish.

I must say that if I get wind of a HD-Lite history channel coming to Dish, my beliefs and principals might be threatened because History channel rules It was briefly listed on Dish's website for a while but apparently removed. A few people have ran across banner ads announcing it too.

Yes History HD is coming September 5th.

I am hearing a loud buzz of a few other HD channels coming to Dish in September, all of them being Turner Channels.

Yeah most of the new Dish HD channels are Zoom-o-Vision most of the time, but I am loving Mythbusters and DirtyJobs in HD. :)

yeah, I agree Scott; even though they are zoon-o-vision,(is that related to Voom-o-vision?) they still look better than they did before the were "hd'd"

once again, until there is more REAL HD content, this is what we are going to be seeing most of the time..

yeah, I agree Scott; even though they are zoon-o-vision,(is that related to Voom-o-vision?) they still look better than they did before the were "hd'd"
But do we want stretching 4:3 video to become the norm?

But do we want stretching 4:3 video to become the norm?

It just occurred to me... If folks want to declare DirecTV the HD Leader for pushing channels to launch in HD this year... then DirecTV should also be the Zoom-o-vision leader since they have to also take responsibility for pushing those channels too early. :)

It just occurred to me... If folks want to declare DirecTV the HD Leader for pushing channels to launch in HD this year... then DirecTV should also be the Zoom-o-vision leader since they have to also take responsibility for pushing those channels too early. :)
In that case I vote E* is the zoom-o-vision leader because D* doesn't have the channels yet and E* does. :)

I'm kinda amazed that these channels have decided to stretch the programming. How many threads were there about ESPN stretching their content until they added the wings. And the countless threads about TNT's shite-o-vision. I'm more shocked that Discovery is stretching content. You'd think they'd want to stay one of the flagship stations. :confused:

In a decision I expect will be unpopular around here, Dish is apparently planning to respond to DirecTV on September 12th, by using their limited bandwidth to -- wait for it -- launch 9 channels of HD PPV.

http://cmcnabb.cc.vt.edu/dish9hdppv.jpg

credit goes to a cmcnabb posting on Satelliteguys.us

edit-upon further reflection, if these are time-sharing with the RSNs it's a very shrewd move

Discovery is not stretching. It's a bit of zoom and a bit of crop.

yeah, I agree Scott; even though they are zoon-o-vision,(is that related to Voom-o-vision?) they still look better than they did before the were "hd'd"

once again, until there is more REAL HD content, this is what we are going to be seeing most of the time..

As HD becomes more "mainstream", broadcasters need to deal with the "I hate black bars" people. Many of those apparently prefer stretch-o-vision on their new widescreen sets because it "fills up the screen".

These are probably the same people who would only buy pan and scan DVDs. I can only imagine what those are looking like stretched and cropped at the same time. :eek:

As HD becomes more "mainstream", broadcasters need to deal with the "I hate black bars" people. Many of those apparently prefer stretch-o-vision on their new widescreen sets because it "fills up the screen".

If people want to stretch content and fill up their screen, they should do so with their own set top box or television. Ruining the picture for everyone else is just not cool.

History HD is uplinked now (8/22/2007, 12:30 CDT), but not yet available to subs.

Credit Digiblur at satguys.

All this E vs D bickering! LOL

Both companies offer nothing but pathetic HD quality, so I really dont understand the bickering back and forth. Just face it E and D fanboys, your DBS service sucks and offers the lowest quality HD available to mankind.

For the record I have Charter Cable, which is known to be one of the worst cable HD providers. And yes, I have subbed recently to both E* and D*. Charter Cable here in West Michigan makes E* and D* HD look nothing but completely ridiculous. I cant even begin to imagine how a quality cable service like Comcast would compare to DBS HD :)

Bah, My Dish HD looks great. Enjoy your snowyvision ancient tech cable with its 7 excellent quality HD channels.

Itll actually be 17 mediocre quality HD channels come Sept 12th when they add Starz, MHD, and ESPN2.

So youre about 40% right :)

Totally wrong about the excellent quality though, never claimed that. They arent of putrid quality, thats all..

I cant even begin to imagine how a quality cable service like Comcast would compare to DBS HD :)I can. Comcast looks better, at least in my neck of the woods.

All this E vs D bickering! LOL Isn't that what you're doing now? That is claiming, "my service is better than your service." Hypocrisy is a funny thing. ;)

Both companies offer nothing but pathetic HD quality, so I really dont understand the bickering back and forth. Just face it E and D fanboys, your DBS service sucks and offers the lowest quality HD available to mankind. Hmmm. Mine looks damn good on my 65". No complaints at all. Was your dish pointed the right way?

For the record I have Charter Cable, which is known to be one of the worst cable HD providers. And yes, I have subbed recently to both E* and D*. Charter Cable here in West Michigan makes E* and D* HD look nothing but completely ridiculous. I cant even begin to imagine how a quality cable service like Comcast would compare to DBS HD :) Well then we're all happy and that's what is important.

Zoom-O-Vision looks bad. However I will take it anyday to Stretch-O-Vision. I simply will not watch Stretch-O-Vision. It is concievable that I will watch Zoom-O-Vision. I have not ever watched it yet though.

Whenever the local ABC channel broadcasts an SD show in their 14x9 streatch I switch to their satellite channel that is 4x3. If this option ever goes away (maybe 18 Feb 2009) I will simply cease watching SD on the local ABC.

Rick R

Hmmm. Mine looks damn good on my 65". No complaints at all. Was your dish pointed the right way?



I had it pointed towards the ground. Is that right? :)

If I pointed it instead towards the southwest and aligned it to the 110, 119, and 129 locations do you think it would work better?

Wow, I never thought of that, I better sign up!

Isn't that what you're doing now? That is claiming, "my service is better than your service." Hypocrisy is a funny thing. ;)



All Im saying is whats the point in arguing over whose inferior service is better?

Its like comparing 2 loads of poop and trying to figure out which one smells better :)

All Im saying is whats the point in arguing over whose inferior service is better? Since you must have missed it the first time: "Mine looks damn good" As in "not good compared to (fill in the blank).

Just good period.

I had it pointed towards the ground. Is that right? :) Well no but it would explain why cable looked better. At least in my neck of the woods that would be the only explaination for cable having a better PQ than Dish.

The MPEG4 HDs on E* are good quality, more vibrant color, better detail and less compression artifacts than some of the very compressed MPEG2 HDs, on both my 53" CRT and 100" LCD projector. The same appears true for those new D* HDs.

I had Comcast HD before, their HDs were better than the MPEG2 HDs on E* back then, but can't say Comast was any better now, of course they hardly has as many HDs as E*. The timing of MPEG4 could not have been better.

I think some of our fellow cable subs speak ill of DBS HDs in such intense emotion out of envy:)

All this E vs D bickering! LOL

Both companies offer nothing but pathetic HD quality, so I really dont understand the bickering back and forth. Just face it E and D fanboys, your DBS service sucks and offers the lowest quality HD available to mankind.

For the record I have Charter Cable, which is known to be one of the worst cable HD providers. And yes, I have subbed recently to both E* and D*. Charter Cable here in West Michigan makes E* and D* HD look nothing but completely ridiculous. I cant even begin to imagine how a quality cable service like Comcast would compare to DBS HD :)

I will agree with you in that Charter is one of the worst Cable Companies around. Charter here in St. Louis doesn't even carry our Local CBS in HD. Not to mention their non-existent customer service.

To say that Charter makes D* and E* look "ridiculous" sounds rather ridiculous to me.

I will agree with you in that Charter is one of the worst Cable Companies around. Charter here in St. Louis doesn't even carry our Local CBS in HD. Not to mention their non-existent customer service.

To say that Charter makes D* and E* look "ridiculous" sounds rather ridiculous to me.

I was only speaking of HD PQ, nothing else.

Not the # of HD channels, not the customer service.

My customer service experiences with Charter have been quite poor though since you mentioned it. Nowhere near as bad as E* though, and about on par with D*'s.

I get all my HD Locals via Charter too as long as you brought it up. My locals + 11 other other HD channels, and 3 more being added on Sept 12th.

All with mediocre quality, which makes me quite happy considering the current alternatives.

Im hoping D* becomes a viable alternative once the new satt is up and running MPEG-4 HD. I would love to have alot more HD channels that Ill never watch, just so I can say I have them :)

They are going to have to address the problems with the current MPEG2 HD's before they can be considered an option though. So its probably going to be awhile

My decision to leave Dish for FIOS because of the "quantity over quality" mindeset that has led to lots of useless, crappy HD-Lite channels has been validated by this thread.

Thanks to all! :D

My decision to leave Dish for FIOS because of the "quantity over quality" mindeset that has led to lots of useless, crappy HD-Lite channels has been validated by this thread.

Thanks to all! :D


I have yet read any E* subs who are unhappy with the new MPEG4 HDs, quantity or PQ wise. Whoelse are you trying to validate other than yourself?

I am an E* subscriber. The MPEG4 picture quality is acceptable. Can it be better? Absolutely. I am hoping that E* commits to improving HD picture quality in the immediate future. I am a proponent of quality over quantity. Since quantity is an unknown factor and a non-issue at this point in time (both services will probably have a comparable number of HD channels in the future), I think the provider who truly steps up HD picture quality will have an advantage.
When that happens, that provider will get my business.

My decision to leave Dish for FIOS because of the "quantity over quality" mindeset that has led to lots of useless, crappy HD-Lite channels has been validated by this thread.

Thanks to all! :D

The quality over quantity is a slippery sloap. Of the 40 HD channels I get I maybe watch 10 of them. I know this is true of almost everybody except it is a different 10 for others. So while it would be great if they got rid of the channels I do not want and improved quality, those that watch those other channels will feel otherwise.

On the other hand the channels I really want are SciFi HD and History HD. Would I sacrafice a little quality for a channel that I really want?

Rick R

I will agree with you in that Charter is one of the worst Cable Companies around. Charter here in St. Louis doesn't even carry our Local CBS in HD. Not to mention their non-existent customer service.

To say that Charter makes D* and E* look "ridiculous" sounds rather ridiculous to me.

Amen Brother, I left Charter for Dish about 10 months ago. After marriage and birth of child one of the best days of my life was taking my equipment back to Charter.

My decision to leave Dish for FIOS because of the "quantity over quality" mindeset that has led to lots of useless, crappy HD-Lite channels has been validated by this thread. Can we hold you to that statement ?? I sure hope we don't see you complaining about the lack of HD channel additions in the near future....

i love the folks who say they would rather have 10 or 11 "premium quality" HD channels, than 40 HD channels, with some that are probably closer to HD "lite"..
As one of the earliest adopters of HD, owning my first set 6 years ago, and dumping Direct TV for VOOM the first month it was available, I know that the great majority of folks, if given the choice of 50 hd channels, or 10 ultra premium quality HD channels would choose to get 50 instead of 10..sure, in a perfect world every HD channel is stunning, in full blown HD, but I doubt we will be seeing that in the next 5 or 10 years, so, for me, give me as much HD AND hd lite as you can throw up there..maybe a new thread with a poll might reveal some interesting statistics..
just my $.02

Given the proposed new bandwidth and the ever-improving MPEG4 decoders, picture quality should get better instead of worse. If providers continue status quo, I will be very disappointed and will probably drop my HD programming on satellite and invest in blue-ray or hdvd.

i love the folks who say they would rather have 10 or 11 "premium quality" HD channels, than 40 HD channels, with some that are probably closer to HD "lite".. The local TW offers 4 local networks (ABC, CBS, FOX, and PBS) and Discovery HD Theatre and TNT-HD if you have an HD set-top. You can pay for their HD tier, but it only includes .... 4 more channels. No one has ever complained about the picture quality that I can recall. What most people do want though is .... yeap, MORE channels.

Is their a noticeable difference in picture quality between Dish and Direct TV?

How does the Dish picture compare to Comcast cable?

I just got a tv and am trying to decide whether or not I need to leave comcast.

I just sign up with Dish and i think their quality is very good. However, i cant view some hd channels. Can you guys verify if the following hd channels cant be accessed yet: Versus HD, and Science Channel. i only have top 200. Nat geo hd only in top250 according to the lineup but those channels i cant find it on the lineup

I just sign up with Dish and i think their quality is very good. However, i cant view some hd channels. Can you guys verify if the following hd channels cant be accessed yet: Versus HD, and Science Channel. i only have top 200. Nat geo hd only in top250 according to the lineup but those channels i cant find it on the lineup

You will not get the HD channel if you are not subscribing to the package that contains the SD channel... I believe both VS/Golf and Science channel are in the AT250, same as NAtional Geo... so that explains why you cannot watch them since you only have AT200.

I just had an amazingly good service experience with Dish.

I called Dish Thursday night to request an upgrade from the ViP622 to the ViP722, and was scheduled for the update today, Saturday morning. The service guy was there by 9:00 a.m. and the upgrade was done in just a few minutes. No service glitches with the 722 to this point in time; so far as I can tell quality is the same. (A new service committment was required.)

Regards,
Fitzie

you guys are too funny :p

I must say that if I get wind of a HD-Lite history channel coming to Dish, my beliefs and principals might be threatened because History channel rules ;)

-Gary

I can't be HD-lite History Channel HD is a 1280x720p

you guys are too funny :p

I must say that if I get wind of a HD-Lite history channel coming to Dish, my beliefs and principals might be threatened because History channel rules ;)

-Gary

I keep hearing this "HD LITE" mentioned... What does this mean? I have Dish as well....

I keep hearing this "HD LITE" mentioned... What does this mean? I have Dish as well....

HD Lite is essentially slang for an HD signal that has been manipulated by a provider from the original signal. Resolution can be reduced and the bandwidth can be throttled to save bandwidth, thus being able to cram a few more channels into an available slot.

I keep hearing this "HD LITE" mentioned... What does this mean? I have Dish as well....HD-Lite is Gary's term for any HD broadcast that is not 1920x1080i or 1280x720p, and <18MB/s bitrate. Most of Dish Network and DirecTV HD is 1440x1080i or less, and the bitrate is reduced so that more channels can fit onto a transponder.

HD-Lite is Gary's term for any HD broadcast that is not 1920x1080i or 1280x720p, and <18MB/s bitrate. Most of Dish Network and DirecTV HD is 1440x1080i or less, and the bitrate is reduced so that more channels can fit onto a transponder.
not my term bud, I just use it :) , if I would have came up with it I would copyright it :p

-Gary

Latest word is... Sept 5th for History HD on Dish.

I dont see the History Channel on their line up.

I dont see the History Channel on their line up.

History HD is channel 9491.

Larry
SF

^ Wow do you guys have to remember 10000 channels? Is it just me or does E* not offer HD-DVRs??

its just you...

I don't remember channel numbers (much anymore). That's why they invented program guides....

I'd drink to that, Hall, but I can't remember where my glass is...

Odd that i cannot find it in their HD listings anywhere. I am currently evaluating new service and that channel is really important to me. Leaning toward Direct now.

Just noticed both Hist and A&E are back on with their HD feeds now after the fire at the building.

If you are still deciding which service to go for HD, by all means wait till the picture is clear with D*'s HD rollout. A few days or weeks without Hist HD will not kill you.

In fact go read the D* D10 threads on this and a few the other sites if you are not already there yet, you may find the roller coaster ride more exciting than watching actual HD channels.

BIG 10 Network HD is on 9500!

How is the picture quality on the new channels?

Rudy

is there any speculation on how much more room dish has left to add new channels? just wondering because they have added quite a few new ones. specifically im thinking about the scifi channel when it launches.

any update on this? I am very interested in what is coming out for Dish.....

any update on this? I am very interested in what is coming out for Dish.....

10/25/2007 @ 7:00 P.M. CST

Dish has now got the TBS-HD Channel on channel Number 9499.