I just recently got back from Japan where I had a couple of weeks to browse though the local electronics stores.

The big thing that I noticed was all of the HDD recorders. From all different makers with HDDs from 250GB (this was the smallest that I seen) to 1TB. Even a Toshiba HDDVD with a HDD.

Here it has become a virtual wasteland in comparison. Yes there are still DVD recorders out there, and DVRs (mainly from the cable or sat company), but walk into a stadard B&M store and there are only the Tivo setups. I for one don't want to subscribe to another service and monthly fee.

I have heard many reasons for this, such as Tivo has patents and everybody is afraid of them, or they just wern't selling well. As I look for a HD HDD recorder for my new 1080p set, will I have to end up on E-bay paying extorsion prices for it, or is there hope on the horizon?

Cable and satellite apparently take a much smaller share of the TV market in Japan than here in the US. I came across the following snippet from a 2005 article (source (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_hb5026/is_200503/ai_n18241341))

Japan Satellite Broadcasting Association aims to increase satellite and cable penetration to 25%-30% of total Japanese TV households from the current 18% "in the foreseeable future"

Compare that to the > 85% figure in the US.

Compare that to the > 85% figure in the US.

I doubt that 85% number. Rural America is not even wired for cable. I would suspect way less than 50% of American households have cable.

Dave

I believe the 85% represents both cable and satellite. With the remaining 15% using OTA.

According to this page (http://www.tvb.org/selling/Competitive_Landscape/Case_Against_Cable/CL_ADS_Satellite_Cable.asp), the US average is 61.1% cable and 27.5% satellite, which they call ADS = alternate delivery system. There's also a table showing figures by Nielsen DMA (Designated Marketing Area) (http://www.tvb.org/rcentral/markettrack/Cable_and_ADS_Penetration_by_DMA.asp).

It has been pointed out before that the cable/sat number does not represent exclusive cable/sat. A substantial fraction of those households also use OTA -- i.e. the bedroom TV with rabbit ears.

Here it has become a virtual wasteland in comparison. Yes there are still DVD recorders out there, and DVRs (mainly from the cable or sat company), but walk into a stadard B&M store and there are only the Tivo setups. I for one don't want to subscribe to another service and monthly fee.

I have no monthly fees on my Tivos. I have a series 1 and a series 3 with lifetime subscriptions.. no monthly fees.

Lifetime subscriptions (tied to the box) were available for a long time (and there have been some short term offers since then to 'transfer' for a fee lifetime to a new box).

I know that's moot now.. but there are those of us who ALSO hate monthly fees but ALSO think Tivo is definitely worth a lot. I even have a cable DVR *for free* for a year and it's unplugged since it's such crap.

A substantial fraction of those households also use OTA -- i.e. the bedroom TV with rabbit ears.

How many of those secondary sets have DVRs or DVD recorders hooked up to them? :D

My main complaint is that many years ago when I had seen a digitally recorded clip that someone had put on a computer, I dreamed of the day when I could get rid of my VCR and all of the bulky tapes that went along with it. When I finally bought my Panny E85 I was in hog heaven.

Suddenly I could go on a 4 week bussiness trip and all of the shows that I watched would be waiting for me when I got back. When I got the new 1080p LCD three years later and decided that I should buy something that did the same thing for HD, the only thing I could find was a Sony that had been discontinued for $700 on E-bay.

Don't get me wrong, I am sure that Tivo is great, but I like to do things on my own and Tivo goes against my nature. Maybe I am just a rebel in this reguard.

I certainly don't want to go to one of the custom places that are advertised here on AVS to get the $3000-$5000 home entertainment console that will do everything, I don't need it to do everything, just record shows for time shifting. The fact that the E85 had a dvd player/recorder in it was just a bonus, I have only used it for recording some stuff for work a few times.

Obviously there is a market for the home DVR out there, otherwise all of the cable/sat companies wouldn't offer them.

Where are the choices for the rest of us.

..Cat out of the bag!--- recently while in a major chain store here in Oregon I noticed the lack of DVRs and asked the clerk why---without hesitating they gave this response "Since we sell TIVO they prohibit us from offering certain competing products (sales agreement with TIVO)".....

..Cat out of the bag!--- recently while in a major chain store here in Oregon I noticed the lack of DVRs and asked the clerk why---without hesitating they gave this response "Since we sell TIVO they prohibit us from offering certain competing products (sales agreement with TIVO)".....


I've seldom considered employees of big electronics chain stores as sources of reliable CE product features/operation information, much less as sources of CE industry inside information. But that's just me.

While I don't view salespeople at big electronic chain stores as knowledgeable about electronics, this particular salesperson's reponse "Since we sell TIVO they prohibit us from offering certain competing products (sales agreement with TIVO)" certainly is plausible.

While I don't view salespeople at big electronic chain stores as knowledgeable about electronics, this particular salesperson's reponse "Since we sell TIVO they prohibit us from offering certain competing products (sales agreement with TIVO)" certainly is plausible.

They all get TiVo Rewards, so they dont want to sell anything else :) [just kidding]

There is an alternative to Tivo, the Replay DVR, which IMO is superior anyway. I have one of the Replay models that came with a lifetime subscription, and it is transferable to whoever buys it (when I sell). It only has 40 GBs and can be upsized to 120 GB, but since I also have a Panasonic EH55 plus a Comcast HDD DVR I see no need to do that.

Subscription free Replay (and Tivo) recorders are readily available on eBay, most with upgraded HDDs.