I am new to this forum and this is my second post, so hello to everyone and thank you in advance for your help. I have posted something similar in the speakers forum looking for advice on the speakers for my system.

I am looking to change out my current a/v 2 channel system for an all new 5.1 system. My room living room is about 14x15 feet with a 5 foot opening on the right wall opening to my dinning room and another normal doorway opening to my kitchen, combined the kitchen and dinning rooms are about the same size as the living room.

My original system consists of 2 Energy C6 floor standing speakers, an Adcom pre-amp (I think GTP-450, powers itself off and on now, so no longer hooked up), an Adcom GFA-4500 amp (125 watts into 8 ohms). My TV is a Sony KV-36XBR400.

My family has recently increased by one with the addition of our first child. With a new child and a not so large house we are looking to save space, and the stereo and TV are currently hogging up a lot of the space in the living room. We are planning to get a plasma TV and wall mount it. My speaker budget is going to be about $1500 total with about $500 or so for the sub. I am planning to go with Mirage sats that can be wall mounted. I have yet to decide on the sat configuration, but at the most it will be 4 OMNISAT v2 SATs and a CC center channel at the least it would likely be 5 NANOSAT Prestige speakers. Like I said I am currently seeking advice on that part of the system in the speakers forum. That being said, I am obviously here seeking help on the subwoofer. I could really use some help finding a good, sub for movies and some music that will pair well with the speakers I am considering. Since we are looking to save space the smaller the sub the better, I can not get a huge sub for great performance. At the same time I don't want a small sub that only plays to 40Hz either. Looks count too. Something that might somewhat match the looks of the Mirage speakers I am looking at would be good (obviously aesthetics are a matter of personal preference, I just want to point out that looks count here and not just for my wife either).

I am not looking to buy more than I need as I am on a limited budget, which is even more limited due to my replacing everything at nearly the same time. Can I get some helpful advice on what to get and why. One of my big concerns is that I will be downgrading my system while upgrading, by going to lower quality gear. I would like to avoid that as much as possible.

Subs I am interested in (but open to other suggestions):
* Rocket ULW-10 (http://www.**********/products_product.php?section=subwoofers&product=6.1) $499. Good review at Audioholics, interesting feature to remove most offending response peak, not bad looks, sealed 10", 350W, 39 lbs, smaller (W x D x H): 12.25" x 11.75" x 13.00, but Currently backordered (Until when?)
* Aperion Audio Intimus S10 (http://www.aperionaudio.com/product/Intimus-S-10-10-Powered-Subwoofer,19,32,47.aspx)$499, best looking finish of the bunch as far as I can tell, free shipping and return, ported 10", 200W, 56 lbs, 17.5" H x 13.25" W x 19" D, kind of big.
* HSU Research VTF-1 (http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-1.html) $399, good price, good reviews, decent looks, ported 10", 200W, weight ?, kind of large at 19.5"(h) x 14"(w) x 18"(d).
* Mirage OMNI S10 (http://www.miragespeakers.com/v2/product_page.php?open=types&subid=694&id=586) $500
* SVS PB10-NSD (http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-10nsd.cfm) $429. Great reviews, great price, so so looks from what I can tell, ported 10", 300W, 60 lbs, but sounds like it is really large 15" wide x 19" high x 21" deep, maybe too large
* Aperion Audio Intimus S8-APR (http://www.aperionaudio.com/product/Intimus-S8-APR-8-Powered-Subwoofer,18,32,33.aspx) $399, Small!, same great looking finish as the other Aperion sub, free shipping and return, Sealed 13" H x 12.25" W x 12.5" D enclosure with 8” Poly Subwoofer & Dual 8” Passive Radiators, 100 or 150W (I am not sure which), 31.5 lbs. May not go low enough.

Thanks,
Justin

All the 10" subs you have listed will do a fine job for HT and I would add one more for you to consider. Outlaw LFM-1 compact which is similar to the HSU and also goes for $400. Dr. Hsu did the design work for Outlaw.

The general opinion around here is that the 8" subs will do a marginal job for HT. 10" woofers move more air and are better suited for HT except in the smallest of rooms.

Lastly, the Rocket ULW-10 is noted as a better music sub than a HT sub. That's what I have gathered from the chatter here on this forum, I myself don't have an informed opinion on the Rocket sub.

Odd, my name is also Justin and I am also looking for a sub around that price range. I am leaning towards an ED a3-300 ($450 shipped) or a5-350 ($600 shipped) because I am under the impression that for HT, bigger is better. You might give up a slight amount of detail with either of these subs compared to what you listed, but you would gain a large amount of extension and output, especially with the a5-350.

I am new to this forum and this is my second post, so hello to everyone and thank you in advance for your help. I have posted something similar in the speakers forum looking for advice on the speakers for my system.

I am looking to change out my current a/v 2 channel system for an all new 5.1 system. My room living room is about 14x15 feet with a 5 foot opening on the right wall opening to my dinning room and another normal doorway opening to my kitchen, combined the kitchen and dinning rooms are about the same size as the living room.

My original system consists of 2 Energy C6 floor standing speakers, an Adcom pre-amp (I think GTP-450, powers itself off and on now, so no longer hooked up), an Adcom GFA-4500 amp (125 watts into 8 ohms). My TV is a Sony KV-36XBR400.

My family has recently increased by one with the addition of our first child. With a new child and a not so large house we are looking to save space, and the stereo and TV are currently hogging up a lot of the space in the living room. We are planning to get a plasma TV and wall mount it. My speaker budget is going to be about $1500 total with about $500 or so for the sub. I am planning to go with Mirage sats that can be wall mounted. I have yet to decide on the sat configuration, but at the most it will be 4 OMNISAT v2 SATs and a CC center channel at the least it would likely be 5 NANOSAT Prestige speakers. Like I said I am currently seeking advice on that part of the system in the speakers forum. That being said, I am obviously here seeking help on the subwoofer. I could really use some help finding a good, sub for movies and some music that will pair well with the speakers I am considering. Since we are looking to save space the smaller the sub the better, I can not get a huge sub for great performance. At the same time I don't want a small sub that only plays to 40Hz either. Looks count too. Something that might somewhat match the looks of the Mirage speakers I am looking at would be good (obviously aesthetics are a matter of personal preference, I just want to point out that looks count here and not just for my wife either).

I am not looking to buy more than I need as I am on a limited budget, which is even more limited due to my replacing everything at nearly the same time. Can I get some helpful advice on what to get and why. One of my big concerns is that I will be downgrading my system while upgrading, by going to lower quality gear. I would like to avoid that as much as possible.

Subs I am interested in (but open to other suggestions):
* Rocket ULW-10 (http://www.**********/products_product.php?section=subwoofers&product=6.1) $499. Good review at Audioholics, interesting feature to remove most offending response peak, not bad looks, sealed 10", 350W, 39 lbs, smaller (W x D x H): 12.25" x 11.75" x 13.00, but Currently backordered (Until when?)
* Aperion Audio Intimus S10 (http://www.aperionaudio.com/product/Intimus-S-10-10-Powered-Subwoofer,19,32,47.aspx)$499, best looking finish of the bunch as far as I can tell, free shipping and return, ported 10", 200W, 56 lbs, 17.5" H x 13.25" W x 19" D, kind of big.
* HSU Research VTF-1 (http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-1.html) $399, good price, good reviews, decent looks, ported 10", 200W, weight ?, kind of large at 19.5"(h) x 14"(w) x 18"(d).
* Mirage OMNI S10 (http://www.miragespeakers.com/v2/product_page.php?open=types&subid=694&id=586) $500
* SVS PB10-NSD (http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-10nsd.cfm) $429. Great reviews, great price, so so looks from what I can tell, ported 10", 300W, 60 lbs, but sounds like it is really large 15" wide x 19" high x 21" deep, maybe too large
* Aperion Audio Intimus S8-APR (http://www.aperionaudio.com/product/Intimus-S8-APR-8-Powered-Subwoofer,18,32,33.aspx) $399, Small!, same great looking finish as the other Aperion sub, free shipping and return, Sealed 13" H x 12.25" W x 12.5" D enclosure with 8” Poly Subwoofer & Dual 8” Passive Radiators, 100 or 150W (I am not sure which), 31.5 lbs. May not go low enough.

Thanks,
Justin

Odd, my name is also Justin and I am also looking for a sub around that price range. I am leaning towards an ED a3-300 ($450 shipped) or a5-350 ($600 shipped) because I am under the impression that for HT, bigger is better. You might give up a slight amount of detail with either of these subs compared to what you listed, but you would gain a large amount of extension and output, especially with the a5-350.

Justin, I have no hands-on experience with ED so no endorsement, but I have been considering them for a new sub and have been to their website... of note to your situation, they will also create a HT Speaker package at considerable discount... you might want to at least visit their site, maybe give 'em a call. http://www.edesignaudio.com/edv2/htpackage.php

Just a suggestion, but how abought a sub kit from Parts Express.
17" cube w/12" massive Dayton driver and 500w amp. 25hz at
110 db. Real easy to assemble, just connect amp to enclosure,
use foam if needed, connect red and black wires to the driver,
and mount driver to enclosure.......link

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=300-762

Right now they're on sale for $470 plus $50 off on shipping.
(their web site says free shipping but that's an error). Shipping
shouldn't cost you over $15. Driver....link

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=295-404

I have 2 of the Dayton Titanic 10" sub kits in a smaller home theater.
Also have an HSU VTF3/3 w/turbo and a Velodyne 12" sub in a stereo
only listening room. The Dayton Titanic MKIII subs are an excellent buy.
Just thought I recommend something other than the usual eD, SVS,
and HSU's recommendations.

Good luck with whatever sub you choose.......vardo

Hello Justin,

If size is a big concern for you, the PB10 might not be the subwoofer for you. Outside of that, it is very good at what it does, and the fit and finish are good.

I would also take a look at Mirage's subwoofers. They aren't half bad by any means.

I just aquired a Mirage S10 from a famous online auction site. (roughly half priced - for brand new). This sub has great fit and finish, and looks great. But, more inportantly it sounds great! I've been using it for music and HT stuff and its very responsive, and hits very low. (not the lowest in the group) It is a very good subwoofer, and can be found for a good price if you look in the right places.

I also recommend the Mirage S line , I have the S12 in a 13 by 25 ' room and it sounds great. Look for one used , the new bargain or closeout prices aint what they use to be.

Just a quick glance revealed one mirage s10 on a well known auction site for about 400 bucks including shipping, just to give you an idea of what they can be found at. I'm sure any sub your looking for can be had for slightly less than list as long as you look around. It can help especially when one is on a budget. It opens up the options.

All the 10" subs you have listed will do a fine job for HT and I would add one more for you to consider. Outlaw LFM-1 compact which is similar to the HSU and also goes for $400. Dr. Hsu did the design work for Outlaw.

The general opinion around here is that the 8" subs will do a marginal job for HT. 10" woofers move more air and are better suited for HT except in the smallest of rooms.

Lastly, the Rocket ULW-10 is noted as a better music sub than a HT sub. That's what I have gathered from the chatter here on this forum, I myself don't have an informed opinion on the Rocket sub.

Thanks for the feedback, and everyone else too, I was starting to think my post wouldn't get a reply.

I called AV123 the other day to see if there was a status on the backorder for the Rocket ULW-10 and was told that they only know "by year's end." That pretty much scratches it off my list because I can't wait that long. If they had them in stock I probably would have ordered one. Maybe it is good that they aren't in stock?

Is it likely that I am going to need a bigger than average sub due to my living room being open to my dinning room and kitchen?

Odd, my name is also Justin and I am also looking for a sub around that price range. I am leaning towards an ED a3-300 ($450 shipped) or a5-350 ($600 shipped) because I am under the impression that for HT, bigger is better. You might give up a slight amount of detail with either of these subs compared to what you listed, but you would gain a large amount of extension and output, especially with the a5-350.

QUOTE=grubavs;11384029]Justin, I have no hands-on experience with ED so no endorsement, but I have been considering them for a new sub and have been to their website... of note to your situation, they will also create a HT Speaker package at considerable discount... you might want to at least visit their site, maybe give 'em a call. http://www.edesignaudio.com/edv2/htpackage.php[/QUOTE]

Well I have no experience with eD home audio, but everything in my car other than my CD player is eD. I ordered my component speakers, 12 inch sub and 2 amps from them, pre-ordered some before they were even in production. I used to hang around their forums a lot too. They always treated me well and that impressed me. The big thing holding me back from buying one of their subs is the looks. Well I guess size may be too, they don't look small at all, even if they aren't huge. It is great that they make everything to order and they can do some customization for you too, they are made in the US, but being that they are making them in house I guess it makes sense that they are not making the best looking subs around either. I would much rather have something with a nice darker veneer or high gloss black lacquer finish. I know that at the prices I am looking at you aren't going to get high grade furniture finishes, but I have seen some that appear to be rather nice anyway.

I just aquired a Mirage S10 from a famous online auction site. (roughly half priced - for brand new). This sub has great fit and finish, and looks great. But, more inportantly it sounds great! I've been using it for music and HT stuff and its very responsive, and hits very low. (not the lowest in the group) It is a very good subwoofer, and can be found for a good price if you look in the right places.

My friend picked his S10 on closeout for under $200 ($150 I think). He doesn't seem to think it is very good.

I am still considering it, but it seems like for $100 less you can get something nice from HSU or Outlaw. I will have to see.

I keep thinking about the Aperion because they have free return shipping, well that and some positive comments online and the nice finish.

Well I ordered a set of Mirage OMNISAT v2 Sats and the CC center channel from Crutchfield. Only have the center hooked up so far. It came with cracks in the grill piece so I called Crutchfield and they are sending a new grill as soon as they get one. Good service. I have to say I was a little disappointed in the build quality of the OMNISATs, but I guess it would not be fair to compare them to my Energy floor standers that were about $2k for the pair if I remember the price right. I will have to see how well I like the sound.

I ordered a HSU VTF-1 sub today. I had decided on that sub for various reasons. One being the price ($429 shipped), another being the aesthetics. Not having a grill for our cats to scratch or visible cone if a grill was removed(and as such not having to worry about my son beating on the cone once he is crawling and walking around the house) is a plus. The other thing I really find attractive is the variable tuning frequency. Can't wait to hear it. I have never had a sub for my home, just my car.

I tried to order the sub in the maple finish, but it is out of stock and they do not expect more for another 8 weeks, I didn't feel like I could wait, so I decided black it would have to be as much as I don't want black. Really I hadn't wanted maple either, but that was the better choice for my home I felt. So that was the second sub I wanted to order but was back ordered as the Rocket ULW-10 was on back order indefinitely as well, too bad because I like the small size of that sub the best of all my choices.

Congratulations on your purchase. I've owned 2 of the origonal VTF-2's, and the VTF-1 is a step up in amp power (200w, instead
of 150w), and has a much nicer finish. My VTF-2's had a sprayed
on truck bed type of fininh, that could only be really cleaned by
using a product like Armoral and lent free cloth.

Best of luck with your sub......vardo