Hilarious to see all of the fanboys on both sides go wild!!

There will be *no* mass adoption of HDM as long as buying a player means you can only watch "some" of the movies. It doesn't matter which side has more or better movies. The fact that the average consumer has to think about it at all means no sale.

MS is fully aware of this. MS must have convinced Paramount & Dreamworks that it's better to be in the movie download business. No discs or cases to produce or distribute. Just server costs. Practically pure profit. Pay Per View. And lower quality (than BD/HD-DVD) audio & video for us all.

After today's announcement, neither format is going to "win". Unless manufacturers come to the table with reasonably priced combo players, and quick, we can file BD/HD-DVD right next to SACD/DVD-A. :(

I do expect combo players to save the day eventually, but not in time for Christmas.

Total crap. Both will not fail for a long long time. Who knows, we may even have a winner come xmas 08

Why do people continue to use the SACD/DVD-A analogy?Not even close to what's going on with HD DVD/BD.

Why do people continue to use the SACD/DVD-A analogy?Not even close to what's going on with HD DVD/BD.
For one thing universal players came very late in the audio game. They are coming out early here and more are coming. The Paramount deal will make sure of that.

Well unless they can get HD downloads at 10meg speeds done fast this will take forever. Plus who wants to try to download a movie, and the wife says is it ready yet? Server is down, internet is down.... No thanks.... And how about jobs lost just so we can make a few people richer.

This is absolutely mind numbing. Why on Earth would they do this?! This will most definitely kill both formats. F*ck the studios.

They'll both be around for a long time folks. I think HD DVD did get a huge boost though for this holiday season. It could conceivably come close to doubling its installed consumer base if the price is right.

They'll both be around for a long time folks. I think HD DVD did get a huge boost though for this holiday season. It could conceivably come close to doubling its installed consumer base if the price is right.


You bring up a good point, but I expect that many Blu-Ray players will drop there prices as well, along with there software pricing. I saw this already at BB where there were 4 disc on sale for $13.99....

This is absolutely mind numbing. Why on Earth would they do this?! This will most definitely kill both formats. F*ck the studios.

Now its more even!!! Feel the love for the studios!!!! :D Sorry... had to say it.
Now the war is on a more level playing field.
Let the best players win.

Craig

One to rule them all but not the one you obviously thought!

LOTR...... Now that would be nice to have on either format....

Both format will be around for a long time... it won't kill it since it's the future. Why do we have to use one format for movies? Technology is always changing..so people need to learn how to change as well. There are many types of memory stick, cars, speakers, blah blah blah.... Both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray are HD movies...what is there not to understand? Anyway....just enjoy HD...

i agree with k1davis. give me one good reason why this will turn out differently than SACD/DVD-A. i think we're screwed. I can't even count how many "well screw this, i won't buy either format until the war is over" posts i've seen today. it's the exact same thing as SACD/DVD-A.
/goes off into the corner to cry and hug tiny SACD collection

Paramount/Dreamworks/MS Move Will Likely Kill Both Formats

Nah.

They'll both be around for a long time folks. I think HD DVD did get a huge boost though for this holiday season. It could conceivably come close to doubling its installed consumer base if the price is right.

How so? I don't think Transformers and Shrek 3 will have much of an impact to double the install base. Shrek 3 was an awful movie. Ratatouille will decimate it. Transformers is the only Paramount film I see moving some HD DVD players. Infact, I think Fox's recent announcement of catalogue and day and date releases will have a much bigger impact. Yeah, we all know Fox has always been a blu-ray exclusive studio, but we also know that Fox hasn't released squat since March and most HD DVD supporters were speculating they'd go neutral. So as much as HD DVD supporters try to make Fox's recent announcement seem like it's nothing big, it really is, IMO.

And the Paramount move just made things even more confusing for those who were on the fence getting into the HD format. This will no doubt slow down the mass adoption process dramatically. But I suppose it's great news for HD DVD supporters who were never going to purchase a blu-ray player. So congratulations.:D

Nah.
IF you take grandpa off of life support, did you really kill him?

Total crap. Both will not fail for a long long time. Who knows, we may even have a winner come xmas 08I'm asking because I'm genuinely interested, not to argue, but do you really think that people will buy into a format that only plays some movies - in such large numbers that the opposing format gives up? I'd like to think you're right, but I don't understand why that would happen.

Why do people continue to use the SACD/DVD-A analogy?Not even close to what's going on with HD DVD/BD.Why is it so different? Two new competing high quality formats that most people don't know anything about and don't have the equipment to appreciate. Cheaper, single format alternative readily available that people are very happy with. Lower quality/higher profit downloadable/streaming formats on the horizon.

I think we, being as excited and passionate about high quality audio and video as we are, sometimes forget that neither format has been a success. Sales of both formats combined are something like .04% of DVD. That either format will ultimately succeed is far from assured. Streaming of movies has already begun and will improve. M$ has clearly demonstrated that they are willing to play hardball.

At this point, I don't think one format will "win" and that what we need is combo players.

Well unless they can get HD downloads at 10meg speeds done fast this will take forever. Plus who wants to try to download a movie, and the wife says is it ready yet? Server is down, internet is down.... No thanks.... And how about jobs lost just so we can make a few people richer.I agree that the downloads are crap *now*, but if M$ is serious, they'll use excellent compression to get them to stream immediately or close to it at better than DVD quality.

The scenario you paint is bad, I admit, but I don't see people saying, "Oh okay, instead, I'll spend my $$$ on a machine that dictates what I can and cannot watch. Or hey, I'll buy two machines in addition to this cheap DVD player I've already got here, that plays everything."

I love all this now both formats will die stuff.... The future is certainly going to be dual format players so neither format has to die and with the major studios now more evenly split I just wonder how long before we see a flood of them come to the market. Also these formats may never be more than a niche product even if there was/is one format to choose from because to most people DVD looks plenty good.

Seriously though all of the Blu-Ray fanboys would have been perfectly fine had this announcment gone the other way and those of us who own HD DVD would be reading all the I told you so posts.

I'm asking because I'm genuinely interested, not to argue, but do you really think that people will buy into a format that only plays some movies - in such large numbers that the opposing format gives up? I'd like to think you're right, but I don't understand why that would happen.

Why is it so different? Two new competing high quality formats that most people don't know anything about and don't have the equipment to appreciate. Cheaper, single format alternative readily available that people are very happy with. Lower quality/higher profit downloadable/streaming formats on the horizon.

I think we, being as excited and passionate about high quality audio and video as we are, sometimes forget that neither format has been a success. Sales of both formats combined are something like .04% of DVD. That either format will ultimately succeed is far from assured. Streaming of movies has already begun and will improve. M$ has clearly demonstrated that they are willing to play hardball.

At this point, I don't think one format will "win" and that what we need is combo players.

well for one high end audio has always been a niche market. as are home systems that can properly benefit from said format. so are HDTV's a niche market? maybe 5 years ago. it's only a matter of itme bfore all channles are broadcast in HD. sure not all content will be HD - but the channels will give their HD content as a marketing talking point as they do today. People will grow more and more in tune with seeing SD as ugly and obsolete as this happens. and when they realize dvds look worse than TV - they will demand HD disc content. you wont need to sell them on it. and the public always will want a hard copy. Plenty of people still use dial up or have no internet at all. So the infrastructure to handle that kind of broadband is years off and the assumption the average consumer has unlimited drive space in the multiple terabytes is WAY WAY off.


You see a connection in these format battles because you want to see one. Not because it makes sense.

I love all this now both formats will die stuff.... The future is certainly going to be dual format players so neither format has to die and with the major studios now more evenly split I just wonder how long before we see a flood of them come to the market. Also these formats may never be more than a niche product even if there was/is one format to choose from because to most people DVD looks plenty good.

Seriously though all of the Blu-Ray fanboys would have been perfectly fine had this announcment gone the other way and those of us who own HD DVD would be reading all the I told you so posts.Well said, cws_kahuna. We never had 1 format and we only got further from it today. So we need universal players. I hope the announcements come soon. Then the bickering can end and we can watch movies.

IF you take grandpa off of life support, did you really kill him?

Depends on if anyone catches you.

I love all this now both formats will die stuff.... The future is certainly going to be dual format players so neither format has to die and with the major studios now more evenly split I just wonder how long before we see a flood of them come to the market. Also these formats may never be more than a niche product even if there was/is one format to choose from because to most people DVD looks plenty good.

Seriously though all of the Blu-Ray fanboys would have been perfectly fine had this announcment gone the other way and those of us who own HD DVD would be reading all the I told you so posts.

That's because blu-ray had a much higher chance of winning the format war. Now the Paramount move only balances the studio support thus making it more confusing for consumers.

Sony, Lionsgate, Fox, and Disney vs Universal, and Paramount

This war is going to last years and years...:eek:

i agree with k1davis. give me one good reason why this will turn out differently than SACD/DVD-A. i think we're screwed. I can't even count how many "well screw this, i won't buy either format until the war is over" posts i've seen today. it's the exact same thing as SACD/DVD-A.
/goes off into the corner to cry and hug tiny SACD collection

The PS3!

That's because blu-ray had a much higher chance of winning the format war. Now the Paramount move only balances the studio support thus making it more confusing for consumers.

Sony, Lionsgate, Fox, and Disney vs Universal, and Paramount

This war is going to last years and years...:eek:

what consumers? the one sthat read avs? the VAST majorit of the public has no clue which studios support which format - and in most cases even know what they are. We live in a nerd bubble my friend. consumers are no less or more confused today as they were yesterday.

That's because blu-ray had a much higher chance of winning the format war. Now the Paramount move only balances the studio support thus making it more confusing for consumers.

Sony, Lionsgate, Fox, and Disney vs Universal, and Paramount

This war is going to last years and years...:eek:
I don't know why this FUD continues, but let me fix it. Today, just like yesterday, consumers didn't know or care a bit about HDM.

well for one high end audio has always been a niche market. as are home systems that can properly benefit from said format. so are HDTV's a niche market? maybe 5 years ago. it's only a matter of itme bfore all channles are broadcast in HD. sure not all content will be HD - but the channels will give their HD content as a marketing talking point as they do today. People will grow more and more in tune with seeing SD as ugly and obsolete as this happens. and when they realize dvds look worse than TV - they will demand HD disc content. you wont need to sell them on it. and the public always will want a hard copy. Plenty of people still use dial up or have no internet at all. So the infrastructure to handle that kind of broadband is years off and the assumption the average consumer has unlimited drive space in the multiple terabytes is WAY WAY off.


You see a connection in these format battles because you want to see one. Not because it makes sense.You make excellent points, but I disagree about the HD thing. We are a niche. What is the market penetration of HDTV right now? Most Americans have never seen HD. Plenty of people with HDTV's have never seen HD. We are way on the high end of people who give a damn about this stuff at all. DVD on a TV/HDTV is pleasing to the masses just like MP3 is. It works, it's cheap (free?), it's universal and you don't have to know that much to operate it.

HD is clearly the future, but for most people, it's just that. I think these formats will take off (because they definitely haven't yet) when combo players are affordable.

So at the outset of the format war last year when the studio support was something like this:

Blu-ray:
Fox
Sony
Disney
MGM
Lionsgate

HD DVD:
WB
Paramount
Universal

Why were the formats not doomed then when there was nearly a split of studio support? Blu-ray has a few good months (while both formats are still extremely niche) and all of a sudden a studio changing sides means that both formats are doomed?

So last year before the PS3 came out if Fox would have switched to HD DVD and WB and Paramount stayed exclusive to HD DVD would both formats have been doomed? Perhaps some HD DVD zealots would have thought so, but honestly...it's not that end of the world. And certainly this not the end to either format.

This makes dual format players an absolute requirement for HDM to survive at this point. Otherwise, this war will languish for another 5+ years now and yes, SD is all we'll end up mostly having.

what consumers? the one sthat read avs? the VAST majorit of the public has no clue which studios support which format - and in most cases even know what they are. We live in a nerd bubble my friend. consumers are no less or more confused today as they were yesterday.Yeah, and they also won't be confused when the salesman tells them that if they buy a player, they can't watch this, this, this, this and that. They'll just walk.

Combo players to the rescue. Sooner the better.

So at the outset of the format war last year when the studio support was something like this:

Blu-ray:
Fox
Sony
Disney
MGM
Lionsgate

HD DVD:
WB
Paramount
Universal

Why were the formats not doomed then when there was nearly a split of studio support? Blu-ray has a few good months (while both formats are still extremely niche) and all of a sudden a studio changing sides means that both formats are doomed?They WERE doomed back then. The formats have been a failure from a sales standpoint.

There was a article in Engadget earlier this year when Casino Royale came out, about how BD was pulling ahead of HD-DVD. *BUT* that it hardly mattered because the some of the titles on the BD top ten list for the week had sold as little as 300 copies in the week - nationwide.

For a variety of reasons, people aren't buying HDM yet, but I expect that lower priced combo players will do the trick.

I'm not even sure if combo players will be needed at all.....check it...

This year blu-ray software will maintain the lead because Paramount will not flood their movies this year and release a small amount. Maybe hd-dvd will win a week or so (software sales)....

But this holiday season the PS3 will sell millions as opposed to stand alones hd-dvd. Per most analyst (plus a strong software line) 2008 will be where the PS3 takes off and that is going to be a saturation of blu-ray players into peoples homes. Now if HD starts taking traction and the PS3 provides that avenue then it becomes the driving vehicle for the format. It will turn hd-dvd into a niche HD format.....

Competition is a good thing. Now we have two strong HD formats. HD fans everywhere should be happy.

After today's announcement, neither format is going to "win". Unless manufacturers come to the table with reasonably priced combo players, and quick, we can file BD/HD-DVD right next to SACD/DVD-A. :(

100% agreed.

Either the Blu-ray camp respond with something drastic to trump the competition this Holiday, or it's just a quick, pre-mature death for both formats.

So at the outset of the format war last year when the studio support was something like this:

Blu-ray:
Fox
Sony
Disney
MGM
Lionsgate

HD DVD:
WB
Paramount
Universal

Why were the formats not doomed then when there was nearly a split of studio support? Blu-ray has a few good months (while both formats are still extremely niche) and all of a sudden a studio changing sides means that both formats are doomed?

So last year before the PS3 came out if Fox would have switched to HD DVD and WB and Paramount stayed exclusive to HD DVD would both formats have been doomed? Perhaps some HD DVD zealots would have thought so, but honestly...it's not that end of the world. And certainly this not the end to either format.
And look where that time period got us!?!?!

Anyone that thinks what happened today was a good thing is a freaking idiot IMO. Not because I'm a BR fan or because I'm a HD-DVD fan, but because we are now much further away from a resolution to this format war! Regardless of what anyone said, we weren't too far off seeing this thing coming to an end. This big move only causes more fence sitting and consumer confusion, it certainly doesn't help mainstream adoption on HDM in general (which will not happen with two formats). I do agree with the OP, both formats are pretty much guaranteed to maintain niche status only from this point on unless some other major event opens up a clear path forward.

BTW, dual format hardware is not the long term solution. Nobody wants them. More importantly, if everybody's player plays both formats, what exactly is the point of having two formats? There is no reason to have two formats then. Either way it's not a feasible or sustainable model for wide spread adoption.

:(

I'm not even sure if combo players will be needed at all.....check it...

This year blu-ray software will maintain the lead because Paramount will not flood their movies this year and release a small amount. Maybe hd-dvd will win a week or so (software sales)....

But this holiday season the PS3 will sell millions as opposed to stand alones hd-dvd. Per most analyst (plus a strong software line) 2008 will be where the PS3 takes off and that is going to be a saturation of blu-ray players into peoples homes. Now if HD starts taking traction and the PS3 provides that avenue then it becomes the driving vehicle for the format. It will turn hd-dvd into a niche HD format.....

Why would any parent get a PS3 for their child? Its going to be $600 as the $500 60GB PS3 will be long gone by then. Unless the child begs for it, I imagine the Wii or the 360 will sell better due to its larger selection of games and MUCH cheaper price.

PS3 lost this generations videogame war because of Blu-Ray...and thats not even as big of a success as Sony claimed it would be. Its more of a failure. Too many exclusives jumping ship to the 360 and Smash Bros. Brawl will push Wii sales over the 360 I'm sure. That is, if you can find a Wii.

And look where that time period got us!?!?!

Anyone that thinks what happened today was a good thing is a freaking idiot IMO. Not because I'm a BR fan or because I'm a HD-DVD fan, but because we are now much further away from a resolution to this format war! Regardless of what anyone said, we weren't too far off seeing this thing coming to an end. This big move only causes more fence sitting and consumer confusion, it certainly doesn't help mainstream adoption on HDM in general (which will not happen with two formats). I do agree with the OP, both formats are pretty much guaranteed to maintain niche status only from this point on unless some other major event opens up a clear path forward.

BTW, dual format hardware is not the long term solution. Nobody wants them. More importantly, if everybody's player plays both formats, what exactly is the point of having two formats? There is no reason to have two formats then. Either way it's not a feasible or sustainable model for wide spread adoption.

:(

Well put.... Ironically it does not solve the problem have a dual format player, the only problem it does solve is the hardware manufactuer at least makes some money. Studio support will have to waiver one way or the other for one to win....

Why would any parent get a PS3 for their child? Its going to be $600 as the $500 60GB PS3 will be long gone by then. Unless the child begs for it, I imagine the Wii or the 360 will sell better due to its larger selection of games and MUCH cheaper price.

PS3 lost this generations videogame war because of Blu-Ray...and thats not even as big of a success as Sony claimed it would be. Its more of a failure. Too many exclusives jumping ship to the 360 and Smash Bros. Brawl will push Wii sales over the 360 I'm sure. That is, if you can find a Wii.

GizmoDVD: Well guess what the Wii isn't even an HD unit, so maybe we should just drop both formats and stick with DVD... The PS3 wasn't a success because they had no decent launch titles and there marketing plan blew! Some of the titles coming out look flipping amazing though on the PS3...

Uncharted etc....

Paramount owned by Viacom.. Viacom owns Blockbuster. A chain reaction is about to begin and the superior format will win.

I want it to be over by next Christmas and I will keep buying my HD DVD's thank you very much.

Keep buying the Bluray format it will look good next to your UMD collection and your minidiscs..

Running Bear: why don't you go run back to the HD-DVD sandbox and play... What are you like 12 years old or what? What a clown!!!:eek:

Whats a Minidisc? LOL nice try.....

Well, call me crazy... but I just picked up a fat cart full of BluRay discs at Amazon.com to do my part in ending this stupid format war in light of this news. Its best to speak with your wallet than ranting on a message board I say. The sooner this war is over, the better.

Picked up:
1 50 First Dates [Blu-ray]"

1 "Underworld - Evolution (Blu-ray)"

1 "Kung Fu Hustle [Blu-ray]"

1 "Into the Blue [Blu-Ray]"

1 "Click [Blu-ray]"

1 "The Transporter (Blu-Ray)"

1 "Layer Cake [Blu-ray]"

1 "Aeon Flux [Blu-ray]"

1 "Transporter 2 [Blu-ray]"

1 "Superman Returns [Blu-ray]"

1 "National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation [Blu-ray]"

1 "Stranger Than Fiction [Blu-ray]"

1 "The Departed [Blu-ray]"

1 "Big Fish [Blu-ray]"

1 "Night at the Museum [Blu-ray]"

1 "Mel Gibson's Apocalypto [Blu-ray]"

1 "Closer [Blu-ray]"

PreOrder:
1 "Smallville - The Complete Sixth Season [Blu-ray]"
1 "Lost - The Complete Third Season [Blu-ray]"
1 "Pirates of the Caribbean - At World's End [Blu-ray]"


Bite me HD DVD! :D

PS3 lost this generations videogame war because of Blu-Ray...and thats not even as big of a success as Sony claimed it would be. Its more of a failure. Too many exclusives jumping ship to the 360 and Smash Bros. Brawl will push Wii sales over the 360 I'm sure. That is, if you can find a Wii.

I beg to differ. Unlike Microsoft or Nintendo, Sony has been known to continue selling it's previous generation gaming consol even after the release of a new model. Look at how long the Playstation was available after the Playstation 2 was released. And the Playstation 2 is still available even though the Playstation 3 is out. Sony was thinking long term and a few years from now, we will think of DVD's like we think of CD's today. Several developers have commented on how hard it is to fit gaming content on a standard dual layer DVD rom. Can you imagine if Sony had chosen to use CD instead of DVD for the Playstation 2 like Sega Dreamcast did? I doubt the Playstation 2 would be selling in such high numbers still today. Short term, don't expect sales to change much for PS3 but long term, I see PS3 doing well, especially when they start releasing some major hits next year. They just need to work on bringing the price of the PS3 down even though I believe if you are someone who uses all of the features the PS3 offers, it is a great value.

BTW, does anyone know how long the Paramount contract to be HD-DVD exclusive is for? Is it for the end of 2008?

Well, call me crazy... but I just picked up a fat cart full of BluRay discs at Amazon.com to do my part in ending this stupid format war in light of this news. Its best to speak with your wallet than ranting on a message board I say. The sooner this war is over, the better.

Picked up:
1 50 First Dates [Blu-ray]"

1 "Underworld - Evolution (Blu-ray)"

1 "Kung Fu Hustle [Blu-ray]"

1 "Into the Blue [Blu-Ray]"

1 "Click [Blu-ray]"

1 "The Transporter (Blu-Ray)"

1 "Layer Cake [Blu-ray]"

1 "Aeon Flux [Blu-ray]"

1 "Transporter 2 [Blu-ray]"

1 "Superman Returns [Blu-ray]"

1 "National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation [Blu-ray]"

1 "Stranger Than Fiction [Blu-ray]"

1 "The Departed [Blu-ray]"

1 "Big Fish [Blu-ray]"

1 "Night at the Museum [Blu-ray]"

1 "Mel Gibson's Apocalypto [Blu-ray]"

1 "Closer [Blu-ray]"

PreOrder:
1 "Smallville - The Complete Sixth Season [Blu-ray]"
1 "Lost - The Complete Third Season [Blu-ray]"
1 "Pirates of the Caribbean - At World's End [Blu-ray]"


Bite me HD DVD! :D


Heh...I just ordered three BD movies from Amazon although I also wanted to order 300 but since I have a baby, I kind of think it might be to violent of a movie to watch at home :(

All the world in HD
HD-DVD that is!!

Beat it clown!!!!

pidge: Here are some of the line up for PS3......

Heavenly Sword is just fricking awesome
Uncharted on the same level mind blowing.... many more to come...

Running Bear: Keep on running............................... ;)

Running Bear: why don't you go run back to the HD-DVD sandbox and play... What are you like 12 years old or what? What a clown!!!:eek:

Whats a Minidisc? LOL nice try.....

I can't stand losers who have nothing better to do than troll. Why Running Bear decided to register today just to troll around the Blu-ray forum is beyond me.
:rolleyes:

Paramount owned by Viacom.. Viacom owns Blockbuster. A chain reaction is about to begin and the superior format will win.



Because Paramount moving is an example of HD superiority and not Microsoft warmonging tactics...

Well put.... Ironically it does not solve the problem have a dual format player, the only problem it does solve is the hardware manufactuer at least makes some money. Studio support will have to waiver one way or the other for one to win....I don't prefer a combo player, but the studios seem intent on playing their games, so I don't see an alternative.

Somebody has to come around. Either it'll be the studios or the hardware manufacturers. Because J6P will not support two players. It's uphill to get him to care about one player. The studios, after more than a year in, seem deternined to minimize HDM's chances of success, so my $$$ (literally) is on the hardware aspect of the business.

An (eventual) $299 combo player is the answer. I'll spend more than $299, but J6P won't. Don't laugh at that price. Hopefully it'll be like DVD+-R. I paid $650 for a 4x DVD-R (only), SCSI CD burner a long, long time ago. People thought I was a magician. They'd never seen burned music CD's before. LOL

Heh...I just ordered three BD movies from Amazon although I also wanted to order 300 but since I have a baby, I kind of think it might be to violent of a movie to watch at home :(

I already own that film. Great movie!

Surely you have time to watch films like this when the kid is asleep!?

Why would any parent get a PS3 for their child? Its going to be $600 as the $500 60GB PS3 will be long gone by then. Unless the child begs for it, I imagine the Wii or the 360 will sell better due to its larger selection of games and MUCH cheaper price.

PS3 lost this generations videogame war because of Blu-Ray...and thats not even as big of a success as Sony claimed it would be. Its more of a failure. Too many exclusives jumping ship to the 360 and Smash Bros. Brawl will push Wii sales over the 360 I'm sure. That is, if you can find a Wii.

MS barely moved 1M unit since Feb 2007... nintendo moving 4M+ Sony about 3M

this whole format war is getting old.

Well unless they can get HD downloads at 10meg speeds done fast this will take forever. Plus who wants to try to download a movie, and the wife says is it ready yet? Server is down, internet is down.... No thanks.... And how about jobs lost just so we can make a few people richer.


Well people if you do a little research you will find when the digital transition takes over in Jan. 09, the TV broadcast stations already have a Wi Max solution. One will be able to download OTA. This will emilinate the argument that most don't have ultra high download capability.


Many have said this won't happen for five or ten years.
I believed all along that downloading was going to be the inevitable path to all of this. We are a year and a half or maybe two from that becoming a reality.

I already own that film. Great movie!

Surely you have time to watch films like this when the kid is asleep!?

Heh...I could but it is not fun watching a movie with the tv volume set to 6 and the bass turned all the way down :)

Well people if you do a little research you will find when the digital transition takes over in Jan. 09, the TV broadcast stations already have a Wi Max solution. One will be able to download OTA. This will emilinate the argument that most don't have ultra high download capability.


Many have said this won't happen for five or ten years.
I believed all along that downloading was going to be the inevitable path to all of this. We are a year and a half or maybe two from that becoming a reality.

BANDWITDH is NOT FREE.... check CEL Fee..

I appreciate this move as it has awakened the sleeping giants MGM and FOX.
This would also pave the way for more Hybrid players to enter the Hi-Def marketspace.

BANDWITDH is NOT FREE.... check CEL Fee..


Who said anything about free. The main argument put forth by many is that ultra high speed downloads would not happen for the majority for 5-10 years. Well, if they can do it OTA either ala carte or what have you, it will happen sooner than later. I am a Blu Ray supporter, but want Blu Ray to be available at Hollywood Video for rental, to save money and from me having another clutter collection.

Imagine a HD movie or HD content that was just released, that you can down load gigbits in a minute or less.

Who said anything about free. The main argument put forth by many is that ultra high speed downloads would not happen for the majority for 5-10 years. Well, if they can do it OTA either ala carte or what have you, it will happen sooner than later. I am a Blu Ray supporter, but want Blu Ray to be available at Hollywood Video for rental, to save money and from me having another clutter collection.

Imagine a HD movie or HD content that was just released, that you can down load gigbits in a minute or less.

I am not against it, as long as I can watch it when ever I want and where ever I want.

I appreciate this move as it has awakened the sleeping giants MGM and FOX.
This would also pave the way for more Hybrid players to enter the Hi-Def marketspace.


Agreed! Look how fast it took FOX to respond!! LOL!! A mere few hours. They have been screwing with us all year and keeping silent the last 4 months and NOW its convenient for them to announce titles coming as soon as October 2.


I'm all for it, I love their catalog but keeping silent and not releasing any titles wasn't the best move. A few of their exclusives could have gone along way in helping the sales gap as well as amount of titles released. HD-DVD has managed to keep pretty much near even with them in titles released because of their lack of effort. X-men 1 & 2 would have sold more players than Eragon or Night At The Museum.
Oh well, alls fair in love and war right? I wonder if they are sticking with MPEG2 & DTS-HD?

If there isn't a clear winner between BD and HD DVD at least by the end of 2008, I agree that it will absolutely end up being the death of both formats. Mainstream consumers wont adopt either one and they'll both never be anything more than a niche product for videophiles.

They'll just keep on buying SD DVDs like they do today until some type of streaming/download based video service (likely with vastly inferior quality) emerges at some point in the next few years. Combo players are definitely not the answer either. An end to dueling formats ASAP is the only thing that will end the mass fence sitting and confusion, and bring about mainstream adoption by consumers.

Competition is a good thing. Now we have two strong HD formats. HD fans everywhere should be happy.

It never ceases to amaze me when I read this type of post. Why isn't competition between the studios good enough? Why isn't competition between the CE manufacturers good enough? Why on earth would dividing the market between two incompatible formats so anything other then make sure DVD has no real competition?
:confused:

M$ is killing optical media! Wont someone please think of the optical media?! :rolleyes:

Yes, M$ should get out of the movie download business and just leave that to Apple, Netflix, Time/Warner, Verizon, AT&T, et. al.. Evil, bad, naughty M$. :D

(BTW, this post made on a Mac. :p )

Its funny how Blu Ray fanboys say that the fact that Paramount went exclusive means that both formats will die, but none of them say that maybe just maybe, theres new hope for HD-DVD to actually win this thing. I don't understand fanboy pride......on both sides. Is it so hard to admit that theres hope for HD-DVD to win?

Hilarious to see all of the fanboys on both sides go wild!!

There will be *no* mass adoption of HDM as long as buying a player means you can only watch "some" of the movies. It doesn't matter which side has more or better movies. The fact that the average consumer has to think about it at all means no sale.

MS is fully aware of this. MS must have convinced Paramount & Dreamworks that it's better to be in the movie download business. No discs or cases to produce or distribute. Just server costs. Practically pure profit. Pay Per View. And lower quality (than BD/HD-DVD) audio & video for us all.

After today's announcement, neither format is going to "win". Unless manufacturers come to the table with reasonably priced combo players, and quick, we can file BD/HD-DVD right next to SACD/DVD-A. :(

I do expect combo players to save the day eventually, but not in time for Christmas.


http://www.impawards.com/1997/posters/conspiracy_theory.jpg

Its funny how Blu Ray fanboys say that the fact that Paramount went exclusive means that both formats will die, but none of them say that maybe just maybe, theres new hope for HD-DVD to actually win this thing. I don't understand fanboy pride......on both sides. Is it so hard to admit that theres hope for HD-DVD to win?

Because we get an monetary and more so an emotional attachment. JUst as people dislike Sony for the sake of disliking Sony, no other reason. Even if SOny had a better product and overall it would be better for consumers, many wouldn't buy it just because it is Sony. What they are then doing is settling for less which is what happened with VHS vs Beta.

Dreamworks Katzenburg is on record stating that he believes that NEITHER format will win, so for DWs they basically made $100 million for nothing. Frankly when the biggest selling titles are only getting 100,000 units tops, the project profits for Transformers/Shrek will only amount to about $1 million each, assuming their net profit is about $10/unit. So getting taking the $100 million makes sense especially when your studio head is convinced Digitial distribution is the wave of the future.

Of course, they Dreamworks is giving a big 'F*Ck U' to all of their previous Blu-ray supporters. Class action suit anyone? (based on their previous advertising for Blu-ray)

Because we get an monetary and more so an emotional attachment. JUst as people dislike Sony for the sake of disliking Sony, no other reason. Even if SOny had a better product and overall it would be better for consumers, many wouldn't buy it just because it is Sony. What they are then doing is settling for less which is what happened with VHS vs Beta.

Ditto, very well put... Too bad the studios do not see it this way....

Its funny how Blu Ray fanboys say that the fact that Paramount went exclusive means that both formats will die, but none of them say that maybe just maybe, theres new hope for HD-DVD to actually win this thing. I don't understand fanboy pride......on both sides. Is it so hard to admit that theres hope for HD-DVD to win?

Here a hope, go back to the HD-DVD sandbox! .....You don't understand fanboy pride because you are a fanboy... Duh!! Sure there is hope HD-DVD can win.. and yes both formats could die... There I admited it, just tired of HD-DVD Fanboys gloating over this.. who cares....

Very depressing. Obviously Microsoft was able to pay off Paramount in spite of what their own sales numbers clearly showed. Now Microsoft just needs to pay off us customers to the same tune, each one of use with a cool $150 mil in our bank account.

HD DVD won't have a successful transition to J6P because in common use of how standard dvds are tossed around today, they'll scratch too easily and won't be able to be played. I guess they want to learn the hard way.

I guess I'll have to buy my Paramount/Dreamworks crap on standard dvd.

The sting wouldn't have been so bad if it wasn't flagrantly obvious their loyalty was bought like a prostitute from the guys who gave us bsods.

This both formats will die posting is pathetic!! As cws stated, if this had gone the other way...Blu-boys would be out in the streets claiming HD DVD is dead!

Here a hope, go back to the HD-DVD sandbox! .....You don't understand fanboy pride because you are a fanboy... Duh!! Sure there is hope HD-DVD can win.. and yes both formats could die... There I admited it, just tired of HD-DVD Fanboys gloating over this.. who cares....

Means nothing coming from you, I've seen your anti HD-DVD remarks on the other side.

This both formats will die posting is pathetic!! As cws stated, if this had gone the other way...Blu-boys would be out in the streets claiming HD DVD is dead!Yeah, Vatson. Don't you get it? HD-DVD was on the ropes. Low sales, even with cheaper players. Only one exclusive studio. ANY bad news for HD-DVD would have brought it closer to death.

Now that there's good news for HD-DVD and the formats are more even, there's no incentive for J6P, or anybody else to buy into either one. This isn't really good news even for HD-DVD.

What you don't get is that Paramount/Dreamworks/M$ aren't in love with HD-DVD. This move is designed to kill both formats in favor of digital distribution.

Oh well, never mind. Do your dance.

That's because blu-ray had a much higher chance of winning the format war. Now the Paramount move only balances the studio support thus making it more confusing for consumers.

Sony, Lionsgate, Fox, and Disney vs Universal, and Paramount

This war is going to last years and years...:eek:


It's no more confusing today than it was yesterday though really is it? If you want to see all USA realeased HD movies you need to have both formats. So where is all this new confusion coming from?

I can agree that with all the news in Blu-Rays favor of late, greater studio support and greater CE support things look/ed more in favor of Blu-Ray but it's way to early to have declared HD DVD dead, it's a great format just like Blu-Ray. We all wish the format war would have ended before it started but that's not the world we live in.

well for one high end audio has always been a niche market. as are home systems that can properly benefit from said format. so are HDTV's a niche market? maybe 5 years ago. it's only a matter of itme bfore all channles are broadcast in HD. sure not all content will be HD - but the channels will give their HD content as a marketing talking point as they do today. People will grow more and more in tune with seeing SD as ugly and obsolete as this happens. and when they realize dvds look worse than TV - they will demand HD disc content. you wont need to sell them on it. and the public always will want a hard copy. Plenty of people still use dial up or have no internet at all. So the infrastructure to handle that kind of broadband is years off and the assumption the average consumer has unlimited drive space in the multiple terabytes is WAY WAY off.


You see a connection in these format battles because you want to see one. Not because it makes sense.
Is there anyone daring enough to challenge this comment?

The advocates for two formats forget one very important fact: The vast majority of consumers buy from brick and mortar retailers. Shelf space is limited and stores like Best Buy have even cut back on the number of DVD titles they carry. I don't think either high definition format is gonna be embraced by the retailers until one format emerges as the victor. Microsoft has succeeded in buying itself more time. The war stretches out and both formats become relegated to niche status and digital downloads win the day.

A winning counter move would have Sony and the other Blu-ray manufacturers persuading Walmart, Target and Best Buy drop Toshiba HD DVD players and HD DVD add-ons for sale at retail locations.

It's no more confusing today than it was yesterday though really is it? If you want to see all USA realeased HD movies you need to have both formats. So where is all this new confusion coming from?

I can agree that with all the news in Blu-Rays favor of late, greater studio support and greater CE support things look/ed more in favor of Blu-Ray but it's way to early to have declared HD DVD dead, it's a great format just like Blu-Ray. We all wish the format war would have ended before it started but that's not the world we live in.Two formats means only enthusiasts buy. Only enthusiasts means a niche market. Niche market for both formats means both formats die.

This is a move from M$ designed to hurt the sales of both formats so they can position lower quality HD-VOD as the next generation.

I'm not a format fanboy. I just want high quality HDM. Today's move makes that possiblity more remote.

This is a move from M$ designed to hurt the sales of both formats so they can position lower quality HD-VOD as the next generation.



If only M$ manages to make downloading HD-VOD appealing and practical enough will they succeed. Otherwise, it will become another Zune.

Yeah, Vatson. Don't you get it? HD-DVD was on the ropes. Low sales, even with cheaper players. Only one exclusive studio. ANY bad news for HD-DVD would have brought it closer to death.

Now that there's good news for HD-DVD and the formats are more even, there's no incentive for J6P, or anybody else to buy into either one. This isn't really good news even for HD-DVD.

What you don't get is that Paramount/Dreamworks/M$ aren't in love with HD-DVD. This move is designed to kill both formats in favor of digital distribution.

Oh well, never mind. Do your dance.

See I have been following this stuff for some time now, I didn't see HD DVD as being on the ropes...They had one solid backing (Uni) but there were a number of neutral studios that provided movies for this format as well.

I think both are great formats, but it has been my experience that J6P will buy into what ever it is he/she can afford. Money talks BS walks. Sony doesn't want to recognize this. When I walk past a Sony Store I don't get the "come on in we are affordable feeling". As a matter of fact I remember one time I walked in and the sales guy was suggesting that I finance the thing I was looking at! Like really, finance a TV? Sorry...not for me.

As far as the down loadable stuff goes...years off yet. Hell trying to DL 300 mbs takes to long on DSL, never mind a HD movie.

The bottom line is this is a big move that in my opinion hurts BD, not HDM. HD DVD will bask in the glory of this until the next big bit of news hits...Like I have said before things are getting interesting.

Two formats means only enthusiasts buy. Only enthusiasts means a niche market. Niche market for both formats means both formats die.

This is a move from M$ designed to hurt the sales of both formats so they can position lower quality HD-VOD as the next generation.

I'm not a format fanboy. I just want high quality HDM. Today's move makes that possiblity more remote.


Fair enough.

Like I said prior though we were not dealt a scenario in which we have 1 format, so they were dead before they even arrived. However there was a short time when we had 1 HD format in HD DVD, so lets blame Sony and Blu-Ray for killing the HD formats. HD DVD was here first ;):D.

I am completely with you in not being a format fanboy. I also want high quality HDM, I realized if I wanted to enjoy my movies to the fullest extent I would need both HD formats. The move today just tells me that I made the right decision to buy both formats and as long as these formats are releasing movies I will continue to support them. I can't control where J6P decides to put their money but I can assure you it's not into expensive audio/video equipment with movies that cost double to triple what DVD does.

well for one high end audio has always been a niche market. as are home systems that can properly benefit from said format. so are HDTV's a niche market? maybe 5 years ago. it's only a matter of itme bfore all channles are broadcast in HD. sure not all content will be HD - but the channels will give their HD content as a marketing talking point as they do today. People will grow more and more in tune with seeing SD as ugly and obsolete as this happens. and when they realize dvds look worse than TV - they will demand HD disc content. you wont need to sell them on it. and the public always will want a hard copy. Plenty of people still use dial up or have no internet at all. So the infrastructure to handle that kind of broadband is years off and the assumption the average consumer has unlimited drive space in the multiple terabytes is WAY WAY off.


You see a cnnection in these format battles because you want to see one. Not because it makes sense.

Is there anyone daring enough to challenge this comment?I already did.

You make excellent points, but I disagree about the HD thing. We (AVS Forum Members) are a niche. What is the market penetration of HDTV right now? Most Americans have never seen HD. Plenty of people with HDTV's have never seen HD. Most people with PS3's and X-Box 360's don't even realize they have HD (gaming) capability. We are way on the high end of people who give a damn about this stuff at all. DVD on a TV/HDTV is pleasing to the masses just like MP3 is. It works, it's cheap (free?), it's universal and you don't have to know that much to operate it.

HD is clearly the future, but for most people, it's just that. I think these formats will take off (because they definitely haven't yet) when combo players are affordable.Is there anyone daring enough to challenge my response? :)

i think I need to take an extended break from this forum until the mods get a chance to clean up all this crap and the chicken little trolls run out of steam and we can get back to talking about actual titles coming out for BR.

One studio goes exclusive and it's the end of all HDM... Yeah, drama queens abounds.


HDTV a niche market? Have you been to bestbuy in the last 3 years?

http://www.parksassociates.com/press/press_releases/images/hdtv_pr1.gif

Kill altogether?Nah?Reduce the chance either becomes a mass market item?Yes.Microsoft lines itself up to have HD downloads become the standard by fueling the format war,effectively destroying any chance of mass adoption and HDM being nothing more than a niche product.

I'd just hate to see HD downloads become the standard.Just outta curiousity,what happens if your HDD player full of movie downloads crashes?

please all this HD download crap has to stop.

what fantasy future do you guys live in?
This isn't happening for atleast 10-15 years if it happens at all. You will need the technology to transport it fast and streaming - cable can barely get 20 channels currently going. and you will need massive storage to be cheap cheap cheap. SD VOD hasn't even taken off yet for crying out loud. this is the most ridiculous strawman I have ever seen in this format debate. Like I said before - a lrage portion of the country still has dial up or no internet at all. and you are tlkaing about downloading and storing Hidef content for the masses? that's assuming people won't want a hard copy even when the technology is there for the masses. You might as well be talking about Holograms beating both formats.

Yeah there's a small and colorful discussion going on here (http://www.stfunplay.com/viewtopic.php?p=766#766) as well... Not sure if it'd interest anyone but, there's chatter of various formats and alternative distribution methods etc - reasonably interesting...

I'm not saying that HD downloads will happen tomorrow.But if HDM is killed off,DVD will live on untill the next mass format.Most believe that to be downloads.When that will happen is anyone's guess.

so why even bring it up in this conversation? just to fuel this ridiculous microsoft world dommination thoery floating around like chunky stool?

One thing today should teach all of us. You, me and everyone else. Who knows what's going to happen. It's too damn early and all cards are on the table. sit back, enjoy the show. I think we've seen enough Br supporters eating a large slice of humble pie today after shouting for months BR has already won. So the next logical step is to leap into another drastic conclusion/prediction? Not even wait a day, just instantly declare some extreme position/prediction? That makes no sense to me. Have none of you guys learned from this? It's OK to not know what's going to happen ya know. You don't have to be Nostradamus to enjoy HD.

I already did.

Is there anyone daring enough to challenge my response? :)

You are not thinking in realistic terms, even though they are plausible ones. Like I posted rather briefly in post #75, the fate of a product is determined by the general mass no matter how ingenious the idea is (i.e. iPhone, iTV). You have no win if the public cannot identify with it in anyway.

Talk about HD downloads is abundant on this forum,I don't believe I'm the first to mention it,even in this thread.It's not something I'm trying to fuel.But I don't think it's any secret that Microsoft has a vasted interest in pioneering the VOD revolution.WHENEVER it happens...

Anyways,to be frank I really don't give a damn who wins this battle,as long as HDM survives.And I say that as a new blu-ray supporter.

enough already! Closing.