Firstly i need to make a confession nearly shat my pants reading the press release. I couldn't believe it at first, I was like maybe it for certain titles only as Warners is then more and more article surfaced, and when AP, AFP and Reuters picked the stories, the announcement spread like wild wire on the cyber world with more than 50 pages (30 results per page) of google news search 3 hrs after the announcement. Reuters screamed, Paramount/Dreamworks drop Blu-ray support. I was like OMG OMG - today I received the key to my first house which was completed 2 months ago then this. I was like I am in heaven!!

How huge is the Para/DW announcement? It is the MOST HUGE :p news ever in the format war. It so huge Sony's PR Firm, GCI Group, a Los Angeles-based public relations firm, began calling reporters and news sites to tell them that a Hollywood news blog was reporting that HD DVD supporters gave Paramount $100 million in "promotional considerations" to dump Blu-ray. http://www.tvpredictions.com/bluraypay082007.htm
. BDA is sooo worry they are force to shell possible attacks to make a joint statement touting interactive and web features on BD that NO setup BD players can support with FOX and Disney. BDA also contacted websites telling them that FOX will remain BD exclusive when no one actually said that FOX is going neutral.

okay now on the real blow on BD on the announcement. This is more to BD losing support than HD DVD gaining support. Paramount's decision basically mock BDA, target, and other minor BD support announcement made within this few months. All the the announcement combined is not even half as big as the Paramount announcement. Personally i would rather see Disney and Liongate announcing support for HD DVD than Paramount/Dreamworks dropping support for BD because maybe were conned into getting BD because of studio support. Studio support is almost in EVERY BD purchasers reasoning for doing so. No own expected Paramount/Dreamworks announcement. It was shockingly out of the blue. Not even a word on that in the cyberworld. How how would this stale BD sales. Will in worsen the BD standalone player sales? I bet. How many will cancel their Sony and Samsung BD players pre-order?

The second blow: Assuming Paramount and Dreamworks release titles regularly. This will certainly help HD DVD closing the small movie sales gap. Blades of Glory, Transformers and Shrek alone earned Paramount USD1.5b. They are going to be huge when they are released. The announcement will DEFINITELY and seriously reduce the sales gap.

Third blow: the timing of the announcement, is this a prelude to HD DVD's marketing onslaught over BD? BBi did not exclusive BD support. So did Target. But Para/DW is after supporting BD for more than a year. they have the sales data. BBi had a date collected during the period where HD DVD had nearly no title releases and use it as the reason' to announcement support for BD. Para/DW had more than a year of data from the expensive BD player era till the sub$500 era and they decided to drop out of support for BD. This is after LG and Samsung whom also supported BD exclusively announced support for HD DVD.

pre Para/DW announcement: BD = 84.6%video content availability vs HD DVD's 41%. And the sales ration was stuck a 2-1 for nearly year.

post Para/DW announcement: BD 71.4% vs HD DVD's 41%.

These figures will surely affect the movie sales ratio of HD DVD vs BD.

http://a330.g.akamai.net/7/330/2540/20070713215233/www.videobusiness.com/contents/images/2007MidYear-Sales.jpg

what do you think the real blow and significant of the Paramount and dreamworks' exclusive HD DVD support?

Some good points.

All this does is levels the playing field and perhaps give Hd the advantage. If they can churn out the HD players in time for Xmas.

Excellent post, and really great points and info.

I think this is bigger than all the FUD and misrepresented endcaps that the Blu-Ray side has been throwing aroung by a substantial margin. This actually hits something people do care about with no real option to get around it. You could rent HD disks in other ways and many people already were. You could buy players at many other locations than target and many people already do. You have no other option for an HD version of the upcoming Paramount and Dreamworks movies.

More importantly it blows a huge hole in the Blu-Ray FUD that HD-DVD is loosing or has lost the war. If it was truely loosing or had lost the war no amount of money would convice a studio to tie themselves to a sinking ship for 18 months.

BDA also contacted websites telling them that FOX will remain BD exclusive when no one actually said that FOX is going neutral.



makes me wonder if there is trouble with FOX. The BDA announcement does feel a little like they squeezed Blood from a rock in getting those releases.

I think the studios tire of the format war, not many people are bitting becuse they don't want to waste thier money. Experience shows that the technoligy that gets to sub 200.00 prices fastest will win the format war. Right now we are only seeing strategic wins.

I guess a little grease goes a long way in helping your cause. I hope HD-DVD wins, then they might get it thru thier head that nobody cares for Sony formats.

Don't know about all the blows - but I'm getting all 3 movies mentioned by OP - Blades of Glory, Transformers and Shrek 3 :)

Was Sony beaten in its own PR battle field? I think it did ! poor them. BD fanboys are all but returning to DVD now - the format that Blu-ray is trying to replace ;)

I agree this is a major blow. If an exclusive Co. ( Disney or Fox) were to announce neutrality then it could be construed as "they saw the money Warner was making and decide what was best for them finacially was to expand their base and maximize profits." When a neutral Co. goes exclusive (Paramount and Dreamworks) it could be construed as "We tried both and we think, contrary to Sony's opinion, that the future is HD DVD."

The Paramount announcement puts a end to this type of speculation.... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=884591

I think more good news will probably follow.

We may see more studios follow Paramount/Dreamworks lead.

I desperately want to get an HD Player but have been patiently waiting for the outcome of this bloody competition.

I kinda figured HD would win in the end due to prices, etc.

And if you take a look on most message boards/forums, the number of HD posts usually exceed the BR posts.

Just my two cents.

The big deal is Paramount *dropping* BluRay for HD DVD. This is the first time this has happened. Timed exclusive or not, this is just a big win for HD DVD and a huge loss for BluRay. Its not only the immediate realization that Transformers won't be on Blu, but also the psychological damage done to Sony's hype machine. BluRay basically just got dumped. Sorry Sony, but the honeymoon is over.

The Paramount announcement puts a end to this type of speculation.... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=884591

i feel dirty now. i mad it my goal not to visit any of the BD thread after my good intention was perceived as trolling and was cyber jailed for a month. next time please put a warning saying that it is linked to a BD thread. thank you :)

Wow! I was on vacation and when I visit the site , I see this headline. This is a big boost for HD DVD, no doubt about it. And you have to wonder if more big announcements will follow. This is really starting to get interesting. :)

Nice post. I wonder how the Since Inception percentages swing if you back out all of Paramount's BD sales. Assuming 13% of BD's sales were Paramount offerings... HD DVD would rise to 52, Blu ray would fall to 48.

I'd guess Lionsgate announces neutrality soon. They're too small to depend on blu-ray exclusively. It has to cost them a small fortune to sell so few movies on BD. Studios like Lionsgate and Disney probably assumed if they only supported blu-ray that HD DVD would eventually go away. The Paramount announcement utterly shatters that illusion.
Does anyone else find it interesting no press release from Lionsgate or Disney was released like the one from Fox?

The BD Defense Force can go into overdrive all they want over incentives to Paramount. They find it unfathomable that a second major studio has examined the landscape and determined that BD is not worth the investment. All of the studios use the same accounting procedures, it's just a matter of time til another studio makes the change as well.

Paramount must also have been made aware of Toshiba's plans for the fall/holiday season if they chose to align themselve exclusively. It's going to get interesting.

This does indeed help HD DVD in a lot of aspects. First of all, I am not sure if I am right or not, but Blu-ray has sold 2.2M compared to 1.5M of HD DVD sales. This means that its not a 2:1 ratio. It would be if BD sold 3M. This deal that HD DVD pulled today will help close the gap on sales. Movies such as Blades of Glory, Transformers and Shrek The 3rd were originally going to be released on both formats. Now, those movies are taken away from Blu-ray. This will only help HD DVD creep on up. And with the growing amount of HD DVD players being sold, things are looking fairly good for HD DVD right now. If they can pull another string or two before the Holiday season that would be huge. The A2 player should drop to $199 or less for the Holiday season. You would see a pretty nice spike in player sales then and will help out HD DVD out even more. I also believe that if HD DVD is going to win this thing, they may have to sacrifice some more money due to the fact that Blu-ray still has more studio support.

The war isn't over. Paramount bit on the idea of all those low end players. That market is really price sensitive and may not buy that many discs( studio's make money in sell through not rental). I have already heard complaining about disc prices. Don't get me wrong if a studio says we are going with one format to make it easier for the software dealers that's fine that's valid it even makes sense. But Paramounts accountants must have been out of the building when they came up with this idea. At this stage of the Hi-Def game what should be done is make sure the mid to high end players that both HD-DVD and Blu users are bug free and not needing firmware updates. Make sure the early adopters are well taken care of( better known as most of you on this forum) word of mouth is important to any format. Sure there is a format war; but some people don't even know about it. Remember there are full frame DVD's still out there (and somebody's buying them.) Then there is that download thing.....

Paramount's move will not end the war anytime soon. But I sure luv a good underdog story.:)

It is interesting that most people tend to ask the question how is Paramount incentivized to join HD DVD. Maybe the real question is how BDA blew it with Paramount. I am curious as to what Paramount is unhappy about BD? Is it the highly subsidized cost structure of BD disc duplication, the unhealthy dependency on PS3 for player growth, the potential consumer backlash from BD+, or maybe they are frustrated with the incomplete BD spec.....

Disney doesn't have to. Remember if people really want the movie they will buy it on DVD. It's not like buying an MP-3 player. Then the there is the desireability (or lack of) of Paramount's back catalog.

I agree this is a major blow. If an exclusive Co. ( Disney or Fox) were to announce neutrality then it could be construed as "they saw the money Warner was making and decide what was best for them finacially was to expand their base and maximize profits." When a neutral Co. goes exclusive (Paramount and Dreamworks) it could be construed as "We tried both and we think, contrary to Sony's opinion, that the future is HD DVD."

Most certainly. This is one of the reasons why Fox had to come out with such a pressured public statement. To try to dampen the impact of this announcement. To me personally, they actually even made it the other way around because that statement with that timing reeks of desperation.

And don't forget Kikar, as Amir said, Alan Bell who is the CTO now at Paramount is one of the major forces in DVD forum and played a crucial part in creating DVD, and worked with both HD DVD and Blu-Ray, yet they picked HD DVD.

I don't know if you follow the Insider thread but here's the interview with the heads of Paramount, both Rob Moore and Alan Bell in regards to Paramount's decision to go HD DVD exclusive.

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/33722



Wow! I was on vacation and when I visit the site , I see this headline. This is a big boost for HD DVD, no doubt about it. And you have to wonder if more big announcements will follow. This is really starting to get interesting. :)

Robert, was very clear. He just said "There will be more news at CEDIA" ;) So there's more surprises very soon.

Paramount's move will not end the war anytime soon. But I sure luv a good underdog story.:)

It is interesting that most people tend to ask the question how is Paramount incentivized to join HD DVD. Maybe the real question is how BDA blew it with Paramount. I am curious as to what Paramount is unhappy about BD? Is it the highly subsidized cost structure of BD disc duplication, the unhealthy dependency on PS3 for player growth, the potential consumer backlash from BD+, or maybe they are frustrated with the incomplete BD spec.....

Dude it ain't brain science for most of them. It's exactly what you say. In the Insider thread they were talking about numbers at $4+ for BD50 replication per unit man. That's completely insane.

I completely agree with Amir when he says, even if someone paid $150 million (btw Microsoft didn't give them a penny, as Amir was pretty clear about that and he actually said the same thing to New York Times) it will make Paramount release even more HD DVD titles then anyone can expect and it's all good for the consumer, but I highly doubt these rumors.

- $4+ BD50 replication costs
- Pain in the ass BD-J development
- Creating titles for players that don't exist
- Gamer crowd as consumers as opposed to a solid base of standalones that keeps growing with off-the-chart attachment rate

These 4 reasons alone are enough to justify their complete support for HD DVD. They say, they are most definitely HD DVD for at least next couple of years if Blu-Ray survives that long.

http://a330.g.akamai.net/7/330/2540/20070713215233/www.videobusiness.com/contents/images/2007MidYear-Sales.jpg

what do you think the real blow and significant of the Paramount and dreamworks' exclusive HD DVD support?
If they change the tides, other studio's will be tempted to follow. I will buy both Transformers & Shrek 3, both should be top sellers!

Quote from Paramounts Press Release
"The combination of Paramount and DreamWorks Animation brings a critical mass of current box office hits to consumers with a line-up of live action and animated films that are perfect for HD DVD," stated Brad Grey, Chairman and CEO of Paramount Pictures, which is currently the leading studio in domestic box office.

The companies each said that the decision to distribute exclusively in the HD DVD format resulted from an extensive evaluation of current market offerings, which confirmed the clear benefits of HD DVD, particularly its market-ready technology and lower manufacturing costs. Paramount Home Entertainment will launch its exclusive HD DVD program with the release of the blockbuster comedy hit "Blades of Glory" on August 28th and follow with two of the biggest grossing movies of the year "Transformers" and "Shrek the Third". These three titles alone represent more than $1.5 billion in box office ticket sales worldwide.

UPDATE: Oh, and I'll also buy Antz, Shrek, Shrek 2, Shark Tale, Madagascar, Wallace & Gromit: The Curse of the Were-Rabbit, Over the Hedge, Flushed Away, and Bee Movie. To name a few:D

...snip...
It is interesting that most people tend to ask the question how is Paramount incentivized to join HD DVD. Maybe the real question is how BDA blew it with Paramount. I am curious as to what Paramount is unhappy about BD? Is it the highly subsidized cost structure of BD disc duplication, the unhealthy dependency on PS3 for player growth, the potential consumer backlash from BD+, or maybe they are frustrated with the incomplete BD spec.....

You nailed that on the head.

Wonder what other deals are also in the making.

FOX and Disney will soon go HD-DVD, it’s foolish to think they won’t. If they don’t abandon BR they’ll certainly go neutral. Someone brought out a good point in another thread, why any studio would stay exclusive to Sony, a rival studio, makes little sense. I think promises made by Sony are keeping studios loyal to blu ray. DRM in the case of FOX, it’s foolish to think the code won’t be broken, people will always find a way to copy these discs. Disney, not sure what they were promised, but it seems foolish to think that a parent is going to buy a BR movie for their child to play on a $500+ dollar player, or better yet to assume that BR will find it’s way into a child’s bedroom hooked up to an HDTV. Both studios, FOX and Disney, are going to lose money with blu ray. Paramount tested the waters and went HD-DVD, as for the $150mil thing, it’s a rumor and FUD until proven otherwise. I wonder how long Blockbuster will hold out now.

Sony relied heavily on the PS3 to push BR in to homes; it didn’t work as well as they hoped because not too many people were willing to spend $600+ for BR. I remember someone saying that DVD was just as expensive when it came out, was it? When DVD hit the market I believe Toshiba’s 1st gen retailed for $799, ouch expensive……Was it now? Lets see what was the alternative to DVD at the time. A quality Laserdisc player cost $1000 - $2000. An S-VHS retailed for about $700. Considering the leap DVD took it terms of quality and convince the price was cheap, the movies were also half the price of LD. Blu ray hits the market with a retail of $1000, now lets look at the alternatives to these $1000 machines. HD-DVD retailed for $500, still expensive compared to $75 upconverting DVD players. The quality differences between BR and HD-DVD are minor, more similar than different. Both put DVD to shame……But this depends on the quality of your equipment, a lot of people are happy with their DVD players. Studios have to ask themselves, what will the average consumer buy?

Most people are used to spending no more than a $100 for a DVD player, when you have something like BR that cost $1000 most people are not even going to think about owning one, so you have HD-DVD which has been selling a lot more stand alone players. Sony fans will say “Yeah what about the millions of PS3’s?” What about them? The PS3 is a gaming console, common sense tells me that someone buying a stand alone unit will be watching more movies than someone buying a game console. Paramount may have also felt this way.

Prices on both formats have dropped since launch, $199 HD-DVD players can be found, Blu ray can be had for $500, still double what HD-DVD costs. With Sony losing money like crazy on Blu ray, very few people buying stand alone players, the PS3 not as hot as it was predicted to be, one only has to assume that more of Sony’s exclusive backers will jump ship. If FOX and Disney go neutral or switch sides that will truly be the lid on Blu ray’s coffin, though Sony will hold out for years much like beta. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, you can’t market a HT media format like a gaming console, your market is teenagers, teenagers with no money to spend.

Jeff-

My impression about Fox and Disney is this. Soon after VHS VCRs first came out, Universal and Disney both mounted a huge lawsuit against Sony that this video copying machine would kill their business. They lost by the way. Not too long after Disney posted some of the largest sales figures with titles such as Lion King,Mermaid etc. So in actuality, they did not have the foresight to see that by jumping on this bandwagon that they'd make more money than God.
Now as for the present. Disney (they of the we're gonna lose business from copying) and Fox (Rupert Murdoch must make more money than God) are in the BD exclusive club simply because they believe that the encryption/locking/whatever mechanism will essentially stanch any attempts at piracy and that is the ONLY reason why they are doing this. But let's understand a few points.

1 - Fox was (still is?) gonna charge $40.00 list price for their titles.

2 - BD uses region coding. (C'mon guys,Jack Valenti died, you don't have to keep this
stupid idea going)

3 - Disney WILL (they do it with DVD) still do that "we're locking it in the vault for 7
years" crap so every generation they can milk the next generation.

So this will get uglier and the ONLY thing that'll push em over is to simply increase the
player supply for HDDVD.

This war was never about the formats but about the software. BD's only real advantage was their overwhelming superiority in studio support. Now that has essentially disappeared BD has nothing to offer. I have said before that the only company making any profit off of BD was Sony, through sales of the PS3, games, and their studio. I found it amazing that their competitors in CE and movie production let Sony lead them down the garden path like they did. Maybe now the rest of both industries will wake up and realize that they have been had - and they will give full support to HD-DVD in both player production and movies. The war may not be over but IMO it is end game time, and I for one look forward to Sony biting it.

I don't like to be cynical, but I don't view the Paramount and DreamWorks announcement as good news. I have both HD-DVD and bD playback via my Home Theater PC. I want HD optical media to become widely-adopted. This announcement only heats up the ridiculous "format war," making HD optical media adoption less likely.

I don't like to be cynical, but I don't view the Paramount and DreamWorks announcement as good news. I have both HD-DVD and bD playback via my Home Theater PC. I want HD optical media to become widely-adopted. This announcement only heats up the ridiculous "format war," making HD optical media adoption less likely.

So for the war to be over they had to be neutral and just feed it forever?

Sounds to me like Paramount made a bold statement of why they support HD DVD now. Cheaper to produce, migrate to and deliver products on and at a better consumer price point as well.

Sounds like Toshiba had been winning the "war" all along and studios held out for all the wrong reasons.

If it was truely loosing or had lost the war no amount of money would convice a studio to tie themselves to a sinking ship for 18 months.
If they knew the ship would take an estimated 2 years to sink they most certainly would. The sales on either side right now are so bleak I don't think you can consider any decision a gamble. IMHO the recent announcement evened the score which definitely is prolonging this war. I honestly just wish one would win and we as consumers can move on.

Firstly i need to make a confession nearly shat my pants reading the press release. I couldn't believe it at first, I was like maybe it for certain titles only as Warners is then more and more article surfaced, and when AP, AFP and Reuters picked the stories, the announcement spread like wild wire on the cyber world with more than 50 pages (30 results per page) of google news search 3 hrs after the announcement. Reuters screamed, Paramount/Dreamworks drop Blu-ray support. I was like OMG OMG - today I received the key to my first house which was completed 2 months ago then this. I was like I am in heaven!!

How huge is the Para/DW announcement? It is the MOST HUGE :p news ever in the format war. It so huge Sony's PR Firm, GCI Group, a Los Angeles-based public relations firm, began calling reporters and news sites to tell them that a Hollywood news blog was reporting that HD DVD supporters gave Paramount $100 million in "promotional considerations" to dump Blu-ray. http://www.tvpredictions.com/bluraypay082007.htm
. BDA is sooo worry they are force to shell possible attacks to make a joint statement touting interactive and web features on BD that NO setup BD players can support with FOX and Disney. BDA also contacted websites telling them that FOX will remain BD exclusive when no one actually said that FOX is going neutral.

okay now on the real blow on BD on the announcement. This is more to BD losing support than HD DVD gaining support. Paramount's decision basically mock BDA, target, and other minor BD support announcement made within this few months. All the the announcement combined is not even half as big as the Paramount announcement. Personally i would rather see Disney and Liongate announcing support for HD DVD than Paramount/Dreamworks dropping support for BD because maybe were conned into getting BD because of studio support. Studio support is almost in EVERY BD purchasers reasoning for doing so. No own expected Paramount/Dreamworks announcement. It was shockingly out of the blue. Not even a word on that in the cyberworld. How how would this stale BD sales. Will in worsen the BD standalone player sales? I bet. How many will cancel their Sony and Samsung BD players pre-order?

The second blow: Assuming Paramount and Dreamworks release titles regularly. This will certainly help HD DVD closing the small movie sales gap. Blades of Glory, Transformers and Shrek alone earned Paramount USD1.5b. They are going to be huge when they are released. The announcement will DEFINITELY and seriously reduce the sales gap.

Third blow: the timing of the announcement, is this a prelude to HD DVD's marketing onslaught over BD? BBi did not exclusive BD support. So did Target. But Para/DW is after supporting BD for more than a year. they have the sales data. BBi had a date collected during the period where HD DVD had nearly no title releases and use it as the reason' to announcement support for BD. Para/DW had more than a year of data from the expensive BD player era till the sub$500 era and they decided to drop out of support for BD. This is after LG and Samsung whom also supported BD exclusively announced support for HD DVD.

pre Para/DW announcement: BD = 84.6%video content availability vs HD DVD's 41%. And the sales ration was stuck a 2-1 for nearly year.

post Para/DW announcement: BD 71.4% vs HD DVD's 41%.

These figures will surely affect the movie sales ratio of HD DVD vs BD.

http://a330.g.akamai.net/7/330/2540/20070713215233/www.videobusiness.com/contents/images/2007MidYear-Sales.jpg

what do you think the real blow and significant of the Paramount and dreamworks' exclusive HD DVD support?


I really doubt Toshiba and the HD DVD consortium paid $100 million to Paramount/Dreamworks to produce HD DVD movies exclusively. I think Paramount/Dreamworks saw the writing on the wall that HD DVD will not go away despite the FUD by Sony and the BD consortium. :)

So for the war to be over they had to be neutral and just feed it forever?

Sounds to me like Paramount made a bold statement of why they support HD DVD now. Cheaper to produce, migrate to and deliver products on and at a better consumer price point as well.

Sounds like Toshiba had been winning the "war" all along and studios held out for all the wrong reasons.

I agree 100%

Toshiba's approach to the HD disc market was to give consumers value, a quality product that does everything it was said to do. Sony’s approach was to flood the market with BR (The PS3), and hope software sales would make up for the huge financial loss from selling the players. I hope people at Sony got fired for this blunder. Sony never took into account the “What if” of “Hey what if these teens buying the PS3 don’t buy any movies?”

BR for the most part was marketed to gamers, kids basically. I know adults game too, hey I game, but it’s basically kids that make up the market. Parents buy their kids a PS3 and some games for Xmas, ok great you have your install base Sony. Ok, so now how are you going to get these Kids to buy software? Software is key to sales, BR/PS3 owners are hardly buying any content for their players. If the PS3/BR had 1:1 attach ratio HD-DVD would be stone cold dead right now, it’s funny that it doesn’t. If you look at Player to software attach rates for HD-DVD, HD-DVD is a bigger seller compared to BR.

Studios will go where the money is, this is a business. The money to be made is on the software, this is all studios care about. HD-DVD owners are buying more software than BR owners, what Paramount did was a very smart move. As for the prolonging the war thing, this war will go on for years, I say for 7 years at least. Sony is not going to give up, betamax was sold up until 1994.

Not to sound like a fanboy but BR needs to fail, I’ll give you one good reason why. If BR wins this format war where are future innovations going to come from? They’ll have to come from Sony since it would be pointless for any hardware company to try to and touch the market with something new, with Sony owning the studios and all. Company xyz comes along with a new revolutionary type of media format, “This would be great for movies” Sony says, “Well we have decided to only produce our movies on our format, Blu ray”. This will be the problem for the future, BR fanboys would say “Well Toshiba is a company and there buying support ect.” There is a HUGE difference between Sony and Toshiba, and that’s Toshiba doesn’t own the film studios.

Jeff-

Meh, you quoted Swanni's site so the interest level on what you had to say went down to nil...

Holly cow!

This has even hit my local newspaper! (The Winnipeg Free Press) I think I have seen MINOR mention of the HD wars in my local paper once last year.

According to the article "HD DVD players outsold Blu Ray players nearly 2:1 in the second quarter". The first thing you see when looking at the article is a big pie chart indicating HD DVD with 61% market share for players, blu ray with 36%, and dual players with 3%.

It also mentions that xbox 360 sold 5.8 million, the add on 160,000, and the PS3 at 1.5 million

It does state that although hd dvd PLAYERS have a bigger market share, the blu ray players added in with the PS3 beats the hd dvd total. But then it goes on to say:

"Rob Moore, President Paramount Worldwide Distribution said market data shows that people who own gaming consoles buy fewer movies than those who invest in movie only players"

It also mentions Paramount's view that HD DVD has better quality, and is cheaper overall for the consumer.

I think with Paramount's actions, words and the incredible press coverage this is getting, the BD camp is in BIG doo-doo. No to mention the ripple effects that will happen... My guess is that Blockbuster will end up reversing its decision pretty fast!

...too late for me. I already dropped Blockbuster. :)

Holly cow!

This has even hit my local newspaper! (The Winnipeg Free Press) I think I have seen MINOR mention of the HD wars in my local paper once last year.

According to the article "HD DVD players outsold Blu Ray players nearly 2:1 in the second quarter". The first thing you see when looking at the article is a big pie chart indicating HD DVD with 61% market share for players, blu ray with 36%, and dual players with 3%.

It also mentions that xbox 360 sold 5.8 million, the add on 160,000, and the PS3 at 1.5 million

It does state that although hd dvd PLAYERS have a bigger market share, the blu ray players added in with the PS3 beats the hd dvd total. But then it goes on to say:

"Rob Moore, President Paramount Worldwide Distribution said market data shows that people who own gaming consoles buy fewer movies than those who invest in movie only players"

It also mentions Paramount's view that HD DVD has better quality, and is cheaper overall for the consumer.

I think with Paramount's actions, words and the incredible press coverage this is getting, the BD camp is in BIG doo-doo. No to mention the ripple effects that will happen... My guess is that Blockbuster will end up reversing its decision pretty fast!

You know the worse part? Wait until it becomes public that current BD players cannot support BD's own specs; and upon the higher price tag, one ha to replace their current player to access the new features that the BDA is falsely advertising as their standard.:D

Wait for the explosion.

Wow! I just went to the Blue-Day player forum, they are taking this news as a very bad omen.

Did anyone stop to think that if studios go exclusive they can charge whatever they want now?

You know the worse part? Wait until it becomes public that current BD players cannot support BD's own specs; and upon the higher price tag, one ha to replace their current player to access the new features that the BDA is falsely advertising as their standard.:D

Wait for the explosion.

I really wonder why this is not brought more focefully to the consumers attention. $450 approx for a BR player and it is already obsolete - those new web features for ID4 Fox was going on about wont work on the sony s300 will they? Nor the Panasonic, the Samsung. It will on the Denon though - just got to convince J6P to spend $2000 for it. :eek:

If you are neutral, you don't have to get your panties in a twist over these announcements. It doesn't effect me. I can watch whatever hd content I want. But it does add fire to the format war and contradicts sony's pr that hd dvd is almost dead.

Did anyone stop to think that if studios go exclusive they can charge whatever they want now?

Studios can already charge what they want, no one is going to spend more than $30 for movie though, and that’s high. The real question is, when the studio producing the content is also making the hardware needed to view it, then how much will they charge? $1000 for a player was the retail. Thank god for competition, it really is a good thing.

"Rob Moore, President Paramount Worldwide Distribution said market data shows that people who own gaming consoles buy fewer movies than those who invest in movie only players"

Just as I figured, and as I’ve said. It's just common sense. People are buying the PS3 for gaming, Sony was foolish to think BR would dominate the market through gamers, just like they thought UMD and the PSP would dominate portables. The poor attach rate BR has shows that most of the people who bought a PS3 don't really care so much about BR movies. Since studios want to sell movies, why back BR?

Jeff-

The "real" blo is to Blu's fan base.
Those pesky Blu-bloods that found Sony's Kool-Aid soooooo sweeeeeeet
and now it tastes oh so sour.

It's been such a GREAT month for HD DVD,
after such a BAD month last month.

It is a real boost for HDDVD that Paramount and Dreamworks are now exclusive. However, I would still take this new change of balance with a pinch of salt. For studios its all about making money. Everyone knows HDDVD and BluRay are features wise quite similar, and an average consumer really wont bother about these minor differences. For studios the bottom line is cost vs profits. Its true HDDVD is cheaper to manufacture since its is based on DVD technology, whereas Bluray is totally new technology and studios will need build systems ground up to manufacture Bluray discs. But if Sony or someone else offered the studios big discounts on systems and may be cost sharing with initial productions, studios don't care much. they will go with whichever format makes more sense to them. And Sony is a big giant when it comes offering marketing incentives, I am saying this because I worked for a huge CE distributor in Singapore, and I know the kind of incentives they offer for everything including marketing advertisements and even building new show rooms. Toshiba also does the same for their CE products but not to the same level as Sony. And its nothing wrong for either company to give away incentives to promote their products. After all Sony bought so many studios and are still trying to acquire many studios in Asian film industry, especially in India, mainly because they want to have an advantage in content offering.

So ultimately, when it comes to studios, they look at profitability as the main decider. So, Toshiba lowered prices on players and offered a big incentives whatever the amount is to Paramount and Dreamworks. They agreed on exclusivity. I am sure Toshiba must have committed on much low prices on entry level players for the holidays. Its pure win win for both companies and pure marketing game. Nothing wrong or illegal with that.

Whats the guarantee that Sony will not do a similar stunt with Warner? I am sure they must be working on a counter offensive. They were caught off guard with Paramount, but I don't think they will let this happen again with another studio.

In the end number of discs sold will be decided mainly by the number of standalone players sold, which currently Toshiba has an advantage. If Sony can come out with a SA player under $300.00, that will change. So, this is going to be a cat and mouse game for a very long time to come.

IMO, Both formats will survive for a long time with whatever content offerings they have, exclusive or non. I currently own only an XA2 and am very happy with it with all the content I get in HDDVD. I was planning to buy a BR player, but postponed the idea since none of the current players are appealing to me feature wise compared to the price. If I don't get a particular movie in HDDVD, I will rent an SDDVD which my XA2 does a fantastic up conversion. And, HDDVD is not going anywhere anytime soon. So nothing to loose.

Maybe, just maybe, Paramount (and Disney and Fox) see that Sony is in no way capable of pumping out high volume dual layer BD discs after years of trying and they realize that at some point in the future this is necessary to support either format, AND BD does not and will not anytime soon have feture set equivelance to HD-DVD.

We all know that Disney was behind HDi(with Microsoft implementing what they envisiogned) and they must be pissed that after a year in the marketplace, they cannot do what HD-DVD can do and is in EVERY player sold since inception?

Fox just needs to get over their piracy paranoia and once the first BD+ title is released into the wild marketplace and circumvented within 2 days, they will hopefully see the light so to speak.

Time will tell.

BTW-I have both formats. 2 HD-A2's and an XBox 360 drive w/PowerDVD Ultra AND a Pioneer BD ROM drive.
No BD standalone for me as they are immauture/unfinished products/specifications.
No way I'm gonna blow $450+ on an incomplete standalone.

I only got the Toshiba hd a1 because of the Continental deal, and thought even if hd dvd fails, it was still an excellent upconvert player. Lately the PR wind seemed to point to hd dvd losing. After yesterday's announcement, it's a whole new ballgame. I just ordered my first hd dvd movie in months.

I really wonder why this is not brought more focefully to the consumers attention. $450 approx for a BR player and it is already obsolete - those new web features for ID4 Fox was going on about wont work on the sony s300 will they? Nor the Panasonic, the Samsung. It will on the Denon though - just got to convince J6P to spend $2000 for it. :eek:

Exactly. :)

FOX and Disney will soon go HD-DVD, it’s foolish to think they won’t. If they don’t abandon BR they’ll certainly go neutral. Someone brought out a good point in another thread, why any studio would stay exclusive to Sony, a rival studio, makes little sense. I think promises made by Sony are keeping studios loyal to blu ray. DRM in the case of FOX, it’s foolish to think the code won’t be broken, people will always find a way to copy these discs. Disney, not sure what they were promised, but it seems foolish to think that a parent is going to buy a BR movie for their child to play on a $500+ dollar player, or better yet to assume that BR will find it’s way into a child’s bedroom hooked up to an HDTV. Both studios, FOX and Disney, are going to lose money with blu ray. Paramount tested the waters and went HD-DVD, as for the $150mil thing, it’s a rumor and FUD until proven otherwise. I wonder how long Blockbuster will hold out now.

Sony relied heavily on the PS3 to push BR in to homes; it didn’t work as well as they hoped because not too many people were willing to spend $600+ for BR. I remember someone saying that DVD was just as expensive when it came out, was it? When DVD hit the market I believe Toshiba’s 1st gen retailed for $799, ouch expensive……Was it now? Lets see what was the alternative to DVD at the time. A quality Laserdisc player cost $1000 - $2000. An S-VHS retailed for about $700. Considering the leap DVD took it terms of quality and convince the price was cheap, the movies were also half the price of LD. Blu ray hits the market with a retail of $1000, now lets look at the alternatives to these $1000 machines. HD-DVD retailed for $500, still expensive compared to $75 upconverting DVD players. The quality differences between BR and HD-DVD are minor, more similar than different. Both put DVD to shame……But this depends on the quality of your equipment, a lot of people are happy with their DVD players. Studios have to ask themselves, what will the average consumer buy?

Most people are used to spending no more than a $100 for a DVD player, when you have something like BR that cost $1000 most people are not even going to think about owning one, so you have HD-DVD which has been selling a lot more stand alone players. Sony fans will say “Yeah what about the millions of PS3’s?” What about them? The PS3 is a gaming console, common sense tells me that someone buying a stand alone unit will be watching more movies than someone buying a game console. Paramount may have also felt this way.

Prices on both formats have dropped since launch, $199 HD-DVD players can be found, Blu ray can be had for $500, still double what HD-DVD costs. With Sony losing money like crazy on Blu ray, very few people buying stand alone players, the PS3 not as hot as it was predicted to be, one only has to assume that more of Sony’s exclusive backers will jump ship. If FOX and Disney go neutral or switch sides that will truly be the lid on Blu ray’s coffin, though Sony will hold out for years much like beta. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, you can’t market a HT media format like a gaming console, your market is teenagers, teenagers with no money to spend.

Jeff-

Excellent post, fella.:cool:

As I think Kosty said elsewhere, the full impact of this switch is not that a studio went neutral but said NO to BRD.

Not we will support both formats, but that we will support the one that makes sense.

That cannot but make the other studios think hard about supporting BRD.

Cheers!:D

Just as I figured, and as I’ve said. It's just common sense. People are buying the PS3 for gaming, Sony was foolish to think BR would dominate the market through gamers, just like they thought UMD and the PSP would dominate portables. The poor attach rate BR has shows that most of the people who bought a PS3 don't really care so much about BR movies. Since studios want to sell movies, why back BR?

Jeff-

Does anybody know how many people who own PS3's have HDTVs? I'm guessing the percentage would be around 15 or so. So imagine all these teens who saved up a whole $30 to watch 300 in Blu-Ray on their standard def TVs in their bedroom using their cheap TV speakers. Imagine their disappointment when it doesn't look much better than standard DVD. Your average teen doesn't know about compression artifacts, macroblocking etc. and wouldn't be able to see much difference on a 20" CRT. 300 is probably the first and last BluRay disc many bought.

Rick

Sony relied heavily on the PS3 to push BR in to homes; it didn’t work as well as they hoped because not too many people were willing to spend $600+ for BR. I remember someone saying that DVD was just as expensive when it came out, was it? When DVD hit the market I believe Toshiba’s 1st gen retailed for $799, ouch expensive……Was it now? Lets see what was the alternative to DVD at the time. A quality Laserdisc player cost $1000 - $2000. An S-VHS retailed for about $700. Considering the leap DVD took it terms of quality and convince the price was cheap, the movies were also half the price of LD. Blu ray hits the market with a retail of $1000, now lets look at the alternatives to these $1000 machines. HD-DVD retailed for $500, still expensive compared to $75 upconverting DVD players. The quality differences between BR and HD-DVD are minor, more similar than different. Both put DVD to shame……But this depends on the quality of your equipment, a lot of people are happy with their DVD players. Studios have to ask themselves, what will the average consumer buy?
I bought a first gen RCA (rebadged Panny) which came with an UNRELEASED version of the Dances With Wolves DVD, for US$299.

I then sold the Dances With Wolves DVD for $50, effectively making my purchase $249. :) This was within the first year of the DVD format launch.

P.S. It still works, and plays all mandatory DVD features even in 2007 just fine...

Wow! I just went to the Blue-Day player forum, they are taking this news as a very bad omen.

and please do the right thing but not rubbing this to the BD fanboys' face okay. Dun kick people when they are down. Their pride is basically under attacked. Studio support is always siding Sony. No one every drop out of support for BD. This is the first of its kind.

When almost 100% or BD owners based on the purchase on studio support. Now that SEVERAL major studios dropped BD support and announce 'exclusive' support for HD DVD. the word 'exclusive' had most probably in 65% of BD PR headlines. they created the hype and HD DVD is using that against them.

Some good points.

All this does is levels the playing field and perhaps give Hd the advantage. If they can churn out the HD players in time for Xmas.

That is absolutely right. This move does level the playing field a bit more.
It sickened me to think that a format war could be decided by the studio support more than what the players them selves can do.

Craig

It is a real boost for HDDVD that Paramount and Dreamworks are now exclusive. However, I would still take this new change of balance with a pinch of salt. For studios its all about making money. Everyone knows HDDVD and BluRay are features wise quite similar, and an average consumer really wont bother about these minor differences. For studios the bottom line is cost vs profits. Its true HDDVD is cheaper to manufacture since its is based on DVD technology, whereas Bluray is totally new technology and studios will need build systems ground up to manufacture Bluray discs. But if Sony or someone else offered the studios big discounts on systems and may be cost sharing with initial productions, studios don't care much. they will go with whichever format makes more sense to them. And Sony is a big giant when it comes offering marketing incentives, I am saying this because I worked for a huge CE distributor in Singapore, and I know the kind of incentives they offer for everything including marketing advertisements and even building new show rooms. Toshiba also does the same for their CE products but not to the same level as Sony. And its nothing wrong for either company to give away incentives to promote their products. After all Sony bought so many studios and are still trying to acquire many studios in Asian film industry, especially in India, mainly because they want to have an advantage in content offering.

So ultimately, when it comes to studios, they look at profitability as the main decider. So, Toshiba lowered prices on players and offered a big incentives whatever the amount is to Paramount and Dreamworks. They agreed on exclusivity. I am sure Toshiba must have committed on much low prices on entry level players for the holidays. Its pure win win for both companies and pure marketing game. Nothing wrong or illegal with that.

Whats the guarantee that Sony will not do a similar stunt with Warner? I am sure they must be working on a counter offensive. They were caught off guard with Paramount, but I don't think they will let this happen again with another studio.

In the end number of discs sold will be decided mainly by the number of standalone players sold, which currently Toshiba has an advantage. If Sony can come out with a SA player under $300.00, that will change. So, this is going to be a cat and mouse game for a very long time to come.

IMO, Both formats will survive for a long time with whatever content offerings they have, exclusive or non. I currently own only an XA2 and am very happy with it with all the content I get in HDDVD. I was planning to buy a BR player, but postponed the idea since none of the current players are appealing to me feature wise compared to the price. If I don't get a particular movie in HDDVD, I will rent an SDDVD which my XA2 does a fantastic up conversion. And, HDDVD is not going anywhere anytime soon. So nothing to loose.

You make some very good points. Yes, this war is far from over. I want HD-DVD to win, but in the end, this competition will be good for the consumer. We’ll see cheaper players, better quality players, more blockbuster movie titles sooner than we would have with only one format… why? Because of the war… the competition… because one will always try and trump the other.
There is one thing I do disagree with from what you said above. I don’t think we’ll see a $300 BD player for another year or so. By then HD-DVD players will be well under $200. They are pretty close to the $200 point right now if you buy from an authorized dealer on line.
If I had paid $1000+ for a Blu Ray player a year ago, I’d be sick!!

Craig

Well, as an HD-DVD viewer (LOVE my Toshiba A2!), I'm pretty darn happy about the news. One question. I keep seeing Dreamworks animation...what about the standard Dreamworks films (oops, never mind...includes all Dreamworks films)?

Did anyone stop to think that if studios go exclusive they can charge whatever they want now?

I had a good friend of mine who collected original art....She kept telling her husband that they keep going up in value over the years...She said an Azuolay(SP?) she had purchased 3 years ago would sell for twice that much today...to which he replied:
"Only if someone is willing to pay the price!";)
Take whatever you want from the above..

Did anyone stop to think that if studios go exclusive they can charge whatever they want now?

Keep in mind that for the majority of consumers HD/BD DVD will be in competition with SD DVD for a long time to come. And EVERYTHING will be out in DVD while the library of HD/BD DVDs will be much much smaller. If a studio offering in HD/BD is too high in price plenty of buyers will just get the DVD and upscale it over their HD/BD player. The mega screen videophile crowd so rampant here is a tiny tiny portion of the overal video market. And it is that much larger market the studios want to entice to buy HD/BD DVDs, so they can't overprice their movies too much.

Did anyone else read that this exclusivity deal is only for 18 months?

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/21/technology/21disney.html?ei=5088&en=d4e1f285e2f41437&ex=1345348800&adxnnl=1&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&adxnnlx=1187698143-B5wO3L/F+4r1NyAsum87vQ

Did anyone else read that this exclusivity deal is only for 18 months?

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/21/technology/21disney.html?ei=5088&en=d4e1f285e2f41437&ex=1345348800&adxnnl=1&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&adxnnlx=1187698143-B5wO3L/F+4r1NyAsum87vQ
Yes we read that. And we also read the interview of Paramount's Chief Technical Officer that said:

PCW: Will this exclusive period extend for a limited time, or is this an indefinite arrangement?

Bell: At this moment in time, it's an indefinite commitment. The core of this announcement comes from our experience, and what our consumers are looking for. We hope this will influence consumers' choices.

This is great news! Count me in for Transformers and possibly Shrek 3.

"At this moment in time" The key wording

Studios can already charge what they want, no one is going to spend more than $30 for movie though, and that’s high. The real question is, when the studio producing the content is also making the hardware needed to view it, then how much will they charge? $1000 for a player was the retail. Thank god for competition, it really is a good thing.



Just as I figured, and as I’ve said. It's just common sense. People are buying the PS3 for gaming, Sony was foolish to think BR would dominate the market through gamers, just like they thought UMD and the PSP would dominate portables. The poor attach rate BR has shows that most of the people who bought a PS3 don't really care so much about BR movies. Since studios want to sell movies, why back BR?

Jeff-
How many times do we have to say this? Why is it that when some are shown common sense it doesn't register? Honestly, it makes anyone wonder how some can be so blind.

"At this moment in time" The key wording
Which says nothing about a 18 month commitment does it? If you refer to this as a key phrase it would also indicate no contractual agreement either. ;)

As a consumer who hasn't invested in either.. Nor did I favor one over the other. If this ends the war, and sends more studios and more hardware manufactures to HD DVD. I'm all for it.

I prefer that all studios be on one format... but if either FOX or Disney decide to support HD DVD.. I will buy one very very soon. I have alot of favorite movies that Sony releases, but I'm not buying a blu ray player just to watch Sony movies. Just like I wasn't going to buy a HD DVD player to watch Universal movies.

"At this moment in time" The key wording

I hope that you own a PS3 so at least you can still game, if not, Ebay your player quickly. Paramount's reasons for dropping BR is spreading like wildfire, and a lot of peple will be unloading their expensive BD players. I would buy an HD DVD player if I were you and get it over with. :)

I hope that you own a PS3 so at least you can still game, if not, Ebay your player quickly. Paramount's reasons for dropping BR is spreading like wildfire, and a lot of peple will be unloading their expensive BD players. I would buy an HD DVD player if I were you and get it over with. :)

:D:D

I hope that you own a PS3 so at least you can still game, if not, Ebay your player quickly. Paramount's reasons for dropping BR is spreading like wildfire, and a lot of peple will be unloading their expensive BD players. I would buy an HD DVD player if I were you and get it over with. :)

No I will keep the quality format but thank you for such concern

No I will keep the quality format but thank you for such concern

Yeah, "the quality format". Thats why they keep re-releasing movies that were previously encoded with MPEG-2, because of the quality.:rolleyes:

Just bought Tomb Raider yesterday in support of Paramount's decision - will make more purchases in the coming weeks...

Thanks, Paramount!!

This would have been a bigger deal if the announcement included Spielberg.
All this most likely extends the war for another year, with the consumer getting the short end.

This would have been a bigger deal if the announcement included Spielberg.
All this most likely extends the war for another year, with the consumer getting the short end.

And this is what you use your first posting on?:confused:

Seems your name should be bluebird75.:rolleyes:

No I will keep the quality format but thank you for such concern

Just looking out for you since you spend so much time in the HD DVD forums, you might as well take the red pill. ;)

"A word is enough for the wise." ;)

And this is what you use your first posting on?:confused:

Seems your name should be bluebird75.:rolleyes:

LOL :D

Just looking out for you since you spend so much time in the HD DVD forums, you might as well take the red pill. ;)

"A word is enough for the wise." ;)

Oh that will be happening as soon as Onkyo comes out with one

This would have been a bigger deal if the announcement included Spielberg.
All this most likely extends the war for another year, with the consumer getting the short end.

I'm a consumer...and I'm not getting the short end of the stick. Too much generalizing in your statement to be accurate. ;)

The war isn't over. Paramount bit on the idea of all those low end players. That market is really price sensitive and may not buy that many discs( studio's make money in sell through not rental). I have already heard complaining about disc prices.

Netflix charges no extra fees for HDDVD or Bluray.. And the price differential in discs is actually far lower than it would have been at this point in the game had there been only one choice in the market....


At this stage of the Hi-Def game what should be done is make sure the mid to high end players that both HD-DVD and Blu users are bug free and not needing firmware updates.

Granted, both sides need firmware updates, but at least HDDVD's spec is complete and mandatory, so the firmware updates for HDDVD are for software bugs and such, not for whole revisions of specs. Not to mention that the hardware is final, there's no way to install an ethernet port using a CDROM patch...


Make sure the early adopters are well taken care of( better known as most of you on this forum) word of mouth is important to any format. Sure there is a format war; but some people don't even know about it. Remember there are full frame DVD's still out there (and somebody's buying them.) Then there is that download thing.....

Downloads are a red herring: there's no such thing as 1080p downloadable video until you can get 50-100mbps in the US for $30/month. In other words, hell will freeze over first. Existing 720p video is not good enough, at least for me and others with 1080p displays, unless it's a live 720p60 sporting event.

And as far as word-of-mouth goes, I'm thinking HDDVD probably has the least unhinged fans and the better overall story (with the exception of BROKEN COMBOS :p), while Bluray only has the capacity bulletpoint and the studios they've paid off with cash or promises of consumer-unfriendly advanced DRM..

Out of curiosity, does this mean films like Gladiator will be 100% exclusive? On IMDB I only see Dreamworks and Universal on the credits. That's one I was hoping would be exclusive!

none. none more black. great read!

The real blow of this is that it confirms to everyone paying attention that all of the BDA FUD, spin, promises, "the war is over, we have won, HD DVD is dead" etc. was all a big lie.

Re: marketing firms... I can't help but notice some of the higher profile PS3/BD posters have been noticeably absent from this forum for the past couple of days. You know the ones; they MUST have a counter argument for everything because it's their job to not leave any doubt on the table.

I won't name names, but look around and you will see some guys who never take a day off have done just that, synchronously.

Any chance of Paramount getting on board with the Halo movie? Transformers ... Halo ... hmmmm.....

Yeah, "the quality format". Thats why they keep re-releasing movies that were previously encoded with MPEG-2, because of the quality.:rolleyes:

not just re-releasing, but apologizing profusely along the way. Somebody get me a bb gun for this canary outside my window. It keeps running itself into the glass!

Somebody get me a bb gun for this canary outside my window. It keeps running itself into the glass!
Now that was funny! :D

Now that was funny! :D

Why such a small tv for such a big man:)

Why such a small tv for such a big man:)
?? OK, this is getting just sad...either add to the thread at hand, or go away!

Sheesh! :rolleyes:

Back on topic - interesting article (click here) (http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Paramount/Paramount_CTO_Speaks_Out_On_Switch_to_HD_DVD/885) from Paramount's CTO, addressing the supposed $150M payoff and other reasons for the big news. I found this article dated Wed Aug 22, 2007 at 01:15 PM ET, but am sure it's already posted in another new thread.

This would have been a bigger deal if the announcement included Spielberg.
All this most likely extends the war for another year, with the consumer getting the short end.

spielberg,will come around shortly ,imo

the seas change is just beginning ,he jump the wave shortly and be happy he did ,same for lucas ,fox and disney

watch the yellow birdy

2 studios will switch 1 big and 1 small

Oh that will be happening as soon as Onkyo comes out with one

See? I knew you had a thing for the red side.;)

It will on the Denon though - just got to convince J6P to spend $2000 for it. :eek:
They're saying that the player has been delayed until Q2 '08 on the BD forum... The plot thickens...? :)

Somebody get me a bb gun for this canary outside my window. It keeps running itself into the glass!

completely off topic but oh well.

too funny... and you brought up a memory of my days in the service singing some cadence.

a yellow bird, with a yellow bill,
landed on, my window sill,
i coaxed him in, with a piece of bread,
and then i smashed his f'ing head...

i love that cadence. hope it brought back some memories to other military types as well. hehehehe.

Yeah, "the quality format". Thats why they keep re-releasing movies that were previously encoded with MPEG-2, because of the quality.:rolleyes:

Most of the masses don't even know what a MPEG is.... ;) LOL
AVC and MPEG4, VC-1 are great HD-DVD uses them and so does Blu-Ray.. so what's your point? :eek: Both are quality formats.. just glad we have them...

I'm willing to bet Paramount's catalogue Trek movies once out in HD DVD and assuming a good job was done with them will make Paramount/HD DVD a ton of cash.I can't wait to be able to see ST:WoK and ST:FC in HiDef,nm the ST:TOS HiDef Remaster HD DVD exclusive set coming out 3rd week in November.The msrp is 4219.99 but i found out today for anyone wondering DVD Empire has a presell price of $170 which isn't too bad coonsidering this includes all three years of the series.

I'm willing to bet Paramount's catalogue Trek movies once out in HD DVD and assuming a good job was done with them will make Paramount/HD DVD a ton of cash.I can't wait to be able to see ST:WoK and ST:FC in HiDef,nm the ST:TOS HiDef Remaster HD DVD exclusive set coming out 3rd week in November.The msrp is 4219.99 but i found out today for anyone wondering DVD Empire has a presell price of $170 which isn't too bad coonsidering this includes all three years of the series.

It's season one only.

The real blow of this is that it confirms to everyone paying attention that all of the BDA FUD, spin, promises, "the war is over, we have won, HD DVD is dead" etc. was all a big lie.

Re: marketing firms... I can't help but notice some of the higher profile PS3/BD posters have been noticeably absent from this forum for the past couple of days. You know the ones; they MUST have a counter argument for everything because it's their job to not leave any doubt on the table.

I won't name names, but look around and you will see some guys who never take a day off have done just that, synchronously.

Indeed I have noticed this myself.

I do think there were indicators from Paramount a few months back; I have been quoting Vito Mandato, an executive consultant to Paramount Home Entertainment since March based on what he said about PS3 numbers:

"Mandato is counting only 1.2 million of the 5.5 million PS3 units projected to be sold during the year, plus 500,000 stand-alone players, because his analysis suggests that just 22 percent of PS3 households purchase movies regularly."

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/DisplaySearch_Expo/Hardware/Industry_Forecasts/Blu-ray,_HD_DVD_Hardware_Sales_Continue_to_Rise,_But_No_Winner_L ikely_in_2007/512

Warner has also said for a long time that they make "about the same" amount of money from each HDM format and that was said after "The Departed" BD outsold the HD DVD.

We should also keep in mind that Paramount and Warner were both HD DVD exclusive early on and then went neutral. Some said that money was a factor and for Paramount Spielberg's BD support probably played into the situation. Perhaps this isn't as much a case of MS paying off Paramount as it's a case that Sony's pay-off period has ended with them, Or perhaps they noticed that not releasing Spielberg films was not hurting Universal and decided to focus on the option (HD DVD) that costs them less in production costs.

I'm not saying that Warner is going to go exclusive, but if this was a case of Sony's pay off running out and they made a similar pay off to Warner or Lion's Gate then this does not bode well for the Blu-bois.

Yes, the most impressive thing is that these Studios ditched BR just when a lot of people were beginning to believe Sony's PR that the war is over. And, I might add, after some rather bad news for HD-DVD.
Trust me, a lot of potential customers here in Europe did believe a lot of what they said and some large retailers only stock BR because they also believe it is the format of the future. The only news about the format war you hear around here is Sony's umpteenth celebration of having won the war again and theirs touting the latest sales numbers. There is nobody to contradict them so the public perception here is that the Blockbuster move will indeed decide the war and then they hear news about Target being Blu only and of course nobody to rectivy it with Sony's PR in full swing and all that.
So lately the general mood was that the format war would soon be over with BR being the winner. Even people who bought a HD-DVD player began to question their decision, something I read quite a few times on some other forums.
This announcement came at the worst time for the Blue camp and is a slap in Sony's face if there ever was one. Public perception will be a little bit different from now on.
The next weeks will be very crucial for the blue camp because they have to keep the big players in line and put some fresh plaster on the crumbling wall.
I like to compare this with the Rocky 3 movie:
The big mouthed clubber lang and the quiet rocky.
Clubber does not believe for a second that the smaller guy can win.
He beats his opponent with all he has, but still he stands.
But only after rocky lands a punch that really hurts him it begins to dawn on him that he faces a serious opponent, and that there may be a slight change that the other one could win.
But his confidence has already suffered a vital blow and finally...

Sorry, I couldn't resist.......

Any chance of Paramount getting on board with the Halo movie? Transformers ... Halo ... hmmmm.....

Verrrry Eeeentaresting.. Maybe the "payola" isn't $150M from Toshiba, but a production deal with Microsoft for the Halo movie...

The real blow of Paramount/Dreamworks announcement

Messing-up Sony's Fiscal Statement projections!

Sony Says PlayStation Unit Losses to Narrow This Year (Update3) - from Bloomberg.com ... (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=at3V.7e_7ISU&refer=home)

May 17 -- Sony Corp., the world's largest game console maker, said it will cut PlayStation losses by almost 80 percent this year by raising sales and slashing production costs.

The game unit will post about a 50 billion yen ($414 million) operating loss in the year ending March 2008 and turn profitable the following year, Takao Yuhara, Sony's head of investor relations, told reporters in Tokyo today. The median estimate of five analysts surveyed by Bloomberg projected a deficit of 83 billion yen.

Looks like the following ...

"... five analysts surveyed by Bloomberg projected a deficit of 83 billion yen" ($729 million)

... might become a reality after the Paramount / Dreamworks announcement!!!

Click the link above to read the entire Bloomberg on-line article!

Phil

Yes, the most impressive thing is that these Studios ditched BR just when a lot of people were beginning to believe Sony's PR that the war is over. And, I might add, after some rather bad news for HD-DVD.
Trust me, a lot of potential customers here in Europe did believe a lot of what they said and some large retailers only stock BR because they also believe it is the format of the future. The only news about the format war you hear around here is Sony's umpteenth celebration of having won the war again and theirs touting the latest sales numbers. There is nobody to contradict them so the public perception here is that the Blockbuster move will indeed decide the war and then they hear news about Target being Blu only and of course nobody to rectivy it with Sony's PR in full swing and all that.
So lately the general mood was that the format war would soon be over with BR being the winner. Even people who bought a HD-DVD player began to question their decision, something I read quite a few times on some other forums.
This announcement came at the worst time for the Blue camp and is a slap in Sony's face if there ever was one. Public perception will be a little bit different from now on.
The next weeks will be very crucial for the blue camp because they have to keep the big players in line and put some fresh plaster on the crumbling wall.
I like to compare this with the Rocky 3 movie:
The big mouthed clubber lang and the quiet rocky.
Clubber does not believe for a second that the smaller guy can win.
He beats his opponent with all he has, but still he stands.
But only after rocky lands a punch that really hurts him it begins to dawn on him that he faces a serious opponent, and that there may be a slight change that the other one could win.
But his confidence has already suffered a vital blow and finally...

Sorry, I couldn't resist.......

A very good comparison. I really think that people underestimate Toshiba. They are doing very well financially right now. They have a strategy, and they are carrying it out. The make a lot less noise than the other format, but their moves are solid. And the generation 3 players are about to be released. They are up to generation 3, and their mandatory specs are good for all three generations. They have a mature product.

Paramount's move was reasonable and well thought out. Whatever incentives they may have received, they had their own reasons for doing what they did. And their reasons ring true with many of us who have been talking about many of the same issues.

A very good comparison. I really think that people underestimate Toshiba. They are doing very well financially right now. They have a strategy, and they are carrying it out. The make a lot less noise than the other format, but their moves are solid. And the generation 3 players are about to be released. They are up to generation 3, and their mandatory specs are good for all three generations. They have a mature product.

Paramount's move was reasonable and well thought out. Whatever incentives they may have received, they had their own reasons for doing what they did. And their reasons ring true with many of us who have been talking about many of the same issues.


Perfectly said. Not only that, but the sale of PS3 and other Blu-Ray related hardware will dramatically fall off now as people pretty much have a notion that they were lied too and that Blu-Ray is on the path to lose now.

Yep, so far you could really say:
Sony talked and Toshiba walked....

A lot of people cry and complain 'ohhhh buy the people should be able to decide'. We on the HD-DVD side of things have been having to deal with companies like FOX and Disney being exclusive to Blu-Ray. We've also had to deal with Blu-Ray paying off major retailers to focus mainly on advertising their product and leaving HD-DVD in the shadows. Then we get Michael Bay crying about this exclusivity deal when he already had titles that were exclusive on Blu-Ray, so whatever. 'The blow' doesn't make me think it's going to help end a war. It just helps HD-DVD a little and evens the playing field just a tad more.

Even Blockbuster is starting to get wishy-washy due to the Paramount decision:

"Citing sales trends, Blockbuster recently expanded Blu-ray titles exclusively in hundreds of its stores. Spokesman Randy Hargrove said the chain is not reversing this rollout but will be closely watching customer behavior. Blockbuster does offer HD DVD and Blu-ray in 250 stores and online through Total Access.

“Our announcement with Blu-ray was NOT a format endorsement,” said Hargrove. “We’re going to follow the demands of our customers, and if in the future that means adding more HD DVD titles in our stores, then we’ll do so.”

http://www.videobusiness.com/index.asp?layout=article&articleid=CA6471424

What happens to all the Paramount titles on BD that the rental outlets already own? Do they get to keep renting those BD versions or do they turn them back into Paramount for credit?

Another thing about the whole Blockbuster decision I was thinking about. I own both formats but other than ONE movie my wife bought on BD, we only buy HD DVD discs and rent the BD movies. I wonder how many other people are doing the same thing which COULD make it look like BD is favored by renters?

What happens to all the Paramount titles on BD that the rental outlets already own? Do they get to keep renting those BD versions or do they turn them back into Paramount for credit?

Another thing about the whole Blockbuster decision I was thinking about. I own both formats but other than ONE movie my wife bought on BD, we only buy HD DVD discs and rent the BD movies. I wonder how many other people are doing the same thing which COULD make it look like BD is favored by renters?

Isn't Blockbuster owner by Viacom? The same company which owns Paramount and Dreamworks?

I own both formats but other than ONE movie my wife bought on BD, we only buy HD DVD discs and rent the BD movies. I wonder how many other people are doing the same thing which COULD make it look like BD is favored by renters?


I'm in a similar situation. Other than the 11 titles I own on BD, I always rent. BD has a LOT of movies I'd like to watch once but not own. HD DVD, on the other hand is the exact opposite. They have the movies I'd like to own.

Isn't Blockbuster owner by Viacom?Not anymore, no.

One reason Parmount did this.

WHEN HD-DVD software prices drop, Parmount will be leading it.

Now that they don't have to support 2 formats, they can do that sooner. I'm sure Paramount has all kinds of internal polls that show people are NOT going to spend more then $25 for a Hi-Def movie disk. And Parmount knows that they can't make ANY money at that price anytime soon with Blu.

As someone once said, it's all about the money. Sony has failed to show how thier product can make movie companies money, HD-DVD has.

Watch how fast Sony is left holding the bag on this. Unless they are willing to take even MORE losses by subisdizing Blu disk manufacturing, they are in big trouble.

I think the posters talking about movies prices are correct.

A studio with a foot in both camps will not want to drop the prices, as they would hurt profitability of the more expensive format - ie Bluray.

A studio exclusive to the HD DVD camp will want to exploit a key advantage of the HD DVD format - cost - by releasing cheaper movies to attract more player buyers to the format.

The BD camp better hold onto their shorts this holiday season! I predict it won't just be about cheaper players! :)

In addition, when the price war starts, Warner will be forced to lower prices of their HD DVD titles, but will be reluctant to reduce prices on their Bluray titles.

And THAT's when the consumers are going to see the inherent differences in cost of each format - and they'll buy more HD DVD players as a result...

Oh - and it'll make Warner wonder what they heck they are doing holding the BD bag at that point too...

And as for Fox, trying to sell BD discs at $40 each... peh...

Just remember who the last studios were that supported DVD. Fox, Disney and Paramount. Paramount is not making the same mistake they made before, and I believe that with things going the way they are, it won't be long before we see Disney on board. I don't see Sony coming over for some time to come. I believe they will be dragged kicking and screaming to HD DVD. It's a shame realy. I can think of several sales they are losing because of this.

j

You guys need to seriously stop with the "Disney is going to HD-DVD." They are touring right now from mall to mall to inform people of Blu-Ray and Blu-Ray only. They are obviously completely in this for the long haul or why would they blow that much money touring beautiful USA. Paramount was in a different boat then Disney.

You guys need to seriously stop with the "Disney is going to HD-DVD." They are touring right now from mall to mall to inform people of Blu-Ray and Blu-Ray only. They are obviously completely in this for the long haul or why would they blow that much money touring beautiful USA. Paramount was in a different boat then Disney.Much like the Blu Ray guys talking about Warner going Blu exclusive? :confused:I see Disney caving long before I see Warner...

j

Much like the Blu Ray guys talking about Warner going Blu exclusive? :confused:I see Disney caving long before I see Warner...

j

Warner going HD DVD is a done deal. Just watch. Sept. 5th.

Warner going HD DVD is a done deal. Just watch. Sept. 5th.

Is that 9am Denver time?!

... just under 9 days to go :-)

Should I order the French Champagne?!

Warner going HD DVD is a done deal. Just watch. Sept. 5th.

WOW that will be a GREAT DAY! Let the HD DVD train roll!

WOW that will be a GREAT DAY! Let the HD DVD train roll!

Off the cliff and into Clayton's Ravine, like in Back to the Future III.....Sorry I had to.

Warner going HD DVD is a done deal. Just watch. Sept. 5th.
This I gotta see! No complaints if it happens, though! :D

Warner going HD DVD is a done deal. Just watch. Sept. 5th.

Not that I wouldn't like to see the war over, but are you speculating or do you have something solid to base this on?

i bet you are also looking for the blue fary. the olny thing i hate about the switching thing is that i need to spend another 400-55 to add another player just so i can get the last of the hd i want and also they will proabley be flipers and i hate dual sied disks. no this was just done in greed. when they see the sales they will end this and go back to both formats

You guys need to seriously stop with the "Disney is going to HD-DVD." They are touring right now from mall to mall to inform people of Blu-Ray and Blu-Ray only. They are obviously completely in this for the long haul or why would they blow that much money touring beautiful USA. Paramount was in a different boat then Disney.

except Disney isn't footing the bill for their magic mystery tour.
“Disney’s Magical Blu-ray Tour,” sponsored by Panasonic (http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6470791.html)

And it's not like Disney doesn't have a track record of shunning then supporting formats ;)

i bet you are also looking for the blue fary. the olny thing i hate about the switching thing is that i need to spend another 400-55 to add another player just so i can get the last of the hd i want and also they will proabley be flipers and i hate dual sied disks. no this was just done in greed. when they see the sales they will end this and go back to both formats

Please have a cogent thought when you post. A person could go insane trying to make sense of what you posted, but I digress; let me try.

1. To my knowledge there have been no "flippers" on either HDM format. Flippers are disks that have part of the film on one side and another part on the other side. One example would be the early DVD release of Goodfellas, which was a flipper. What HD DVD does have is Combo Format disks and those have a standard DVD side and an HD DVD side of the same complete film. Right now those make up about 18% of total HD DVD releases and in no way constitute a majority of HD DVD releases in the same way that over 50% of BDs are encoded in the ancient MPEG-2 format or the over 60% of BDs that are BD25s. No Combo disks make up a very small percentage of HD DVD releases.

2. Paramount has had a year of releasing on both formats so they know what they are doing. They decided it was in their best interest to go HD DVD exclusive after publishing on both formats so they won't "see the sales they will end this and go back to both formats", they already know what they make on both formats and made their decision while taking those facts into account. Now if you were talking about one of the many BD studios that Sony gave cash to you might have a point. Those studios have not seen the additional profits that can be made by selling on HD DVD.

3. I don't know what you mean about "the switching thing" no one has switched anything. Paramount has decided to go HD DVD exclusive, but that isn't switching and it won't cost anyone another 400-55????WTF???? It may result in some that drank the Blu-Kool-Aid making a purchase that could range from $179.00 to $499.00.

Back on topic; I think Star Trek exclusives are a big help. Blu has Star Wars, but as most fans and former fans (like myself) know Luca$h will only release when he's damn good and ready so it may well be years before we see any Star Wars film on either HDM format. In the meantime HD DVD will have exclusive rights to the 1080p Trekkies.

Warner going HD DVD is a done deal. Just watch. Sept. 5th.

I hope you are right very much so, but if you are not you are reaching the same level BeatBoy reached with his claims.